MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 629 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Children & Duty by "Perkins,Cheryl;=7001696" 2) Re: Of sheep and cows... :) by Seranna-+AT+-aol.com 3) Re: Bible by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Kirchner Family) 4) RE: Children & Duty by Korendil 5) Re: Vkandis/Kalendra by Korendil 6) Re: Of sheep and cows... :) by mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa) 7) Off-topic deity request by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) 8) Re: The Fire Rose (was Re: New to group with a bunch of by Jane Custer 9) Human Sacrifice / Gods / Zelazny. Was Re: Braid: Human Sacrifice/Attribution/Semantics by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 10) Mega-Snips (Ack!) by Seranna-+AT+-aol.com 11) I'm not here! :) by Heart-Song 12) Re: Of sheep and cows... :) by samcpa-+AT+-rtd.com 13) Re: Paying the Tax by samcpa-+AT+-rtd.com 14) Ahem... can we check textevd? by Salli Bird 15) Re: Paying the Tax by skarzin-+AT+-soonet.ca (Tony and Michele) 16) Re: Ahem... can we check textevd? by Mick Prieur 17) Off-topic deity request -Reply by Robbie Betts 18) Bible 101 by "Diana L. Heald" 19) Re: Virus Alerts -Reply by Robbie Betts 20) Re: Of sheep and cows... :) by Becky Anne Christensen 21) Re: Human Sacrifice / Gods / Zelazny. Was Re: Braid: Human Sacrifice/Attribution/Semantics by Becky Anne Christensen 22) Re: Ahem... can we check textevd? by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (kirchner family) 23) Re: Virus Alerts -Reply by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 24) Lilith... by Ericx Tobias ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:01:00 +0000 From: "Perkins,Cheryl;=7001696" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Children & Duty Message-ID: I was taught that I owe a duty to my parents as long as they live. When I am out on my own, I don't need to follow their beleifs. They raised me, after all. But I don't need to follow their religious beleifs (although I chose to). My sole surviving parent (my mother) is now looking for a home. I owe her support. She raised me. Cheryl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:49:12 -0400 From: Seranna-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Of sheep and cows... :) Message-ID: <960619204909_220953203-+AT+-emout09.mail.aol.com> On 06-19 Lady Becky, Goddess of Stress & Dry Breakfast Cereals wrote: > On some other day, 'Reesa wrote: >> >> By The Way people, taxes are due, and it doesn't matter what >> country you live in. I am Queen of Everything, so you still >> owe. I like chocolate. And sheep... >> I am hereby applying for an extension on my taxes & tithes. I am still looking for loopholes. How about - chocolate is an additive drug. You are allergic to wool? Okay, Okay....I will keep looking. I am not going down without a struggle!!! Seranna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 17:55:03 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Kirchner Family) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bible Message-ID: <199606200055.RAA18029-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla! >On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Tony and Michele wrote: > >> >On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Herald Michal wrote: >> > >> >> If I can just jump in to add a non-Misty related fact (Lady and Lord, but I'm >> >> doing this a lot...) about the Bible, did ya'll know that the >> Christian/Jewish >> >> God accepted human sacrifice? I Don't remember 'xactly where offhand, >> > >> >Cheryl >> > >> >I think that the people in the Old Testament were Abraham and Isaac, but I'm >> not sure. Would Abraham (?) have been asked to sacrifice his son if human >> sacrifice was not an accepted practise? Also, I'm fairly sure that the story >> Herald Michal recalls does come from Greek mythology. >> >> Michele > Well you see, that wat the whole point of the thing. Abraham >loved his son *so* much. The fact that the child even existed was a >miracle because his wife was way past childbearing age. So Isaac was >alreadya gift from God. It was a test of faith, Abraham must have been >thinking that God was crazy, which is what God wanted, but he went >through eith it because he was faithful. The point in fact is that Isaac >wasn't sacrificed, because God doesn't like human sacrifices, that would >kinda be like saying, "Here, see this master work of art you have >painted, just because you're special, and this is extrmely special and >you love it, I'll burn it! Aren't I sweet?" Once again, for the record, I'm not talking about Abraham and Isaac... in that case, God was merciful. In the story of Jepthah, God was not. 'k? sorry for sounding terse, but I have to go real soon... Zha'hai'allav'ah... *************************************************** Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr VP of the VEVUWEC and member of the DMFs *************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 96 21:39:58 EDT From: Korendil To: "Misty List" Subject: RE: Children & Duty Message-ID: <9606200139.AA02173-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> >ObMisty: There *are* convents on Velgarth! Do you think the Shin'a'in might >have convents for those sworn to the non-warrior aspects of their Goddess? >Hmmm... > Well, I dunno about Shin'a'in...but we know that Valdemar has em...if only from the beginning of AoQ. Talia's family mistakes her not wanting to marry as her having a vocation...and she thinks that the convents would be just as bad. Anyway, I don't think they really need convents...how would a nomadic group have one? I think those sworn to other aspects get trainign with others of the same, and lead nice, peaceful, lives...though the madien ones may stay celebate too. Wow....I think this is my first post for ages and ages and ages. Taht's what happens when you don't check your mail for 1.5 months. You just go erase all of it and start anew. *-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-* Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High Court, Magus Minor, One In Black, and Firstborn Child of Danaan. _____________________________________________________________________________ Email: korendil-+AT+-icubed.net |Blue Bread Mold, the story must be told Email: jon_rubin-+AT+-bam_online.tfnet.com|Nothing keep you livin' like the Blue IRC: Korendil on #macintosh; Undernet|Bread Mold-- Leslie Fish *-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 96 21:40:17 EDT From: Korendil To: "Misty List" Subject: Re: Vkandis/Kalendra Message-ID: <9606200140.AB02173-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> >>I don't agree. I don't think that Vkandis ever had anything to do >>with Kal'enal. If you check out the song lyrics at the back of Vows >>and Honor, you'll see that the Shin'a'in Goddess has four aspects, >>each with a complementary male aspect (Rover, Guardian, Hunter, and >>Guide) which has nothing to do with Vkandis Sunlord. >(snip) >> Lady Thess > > Just because the Shin'a'in and the Karsites see their God/esse >differently, does not mean that there isn't a chance they are the same. >JMHO. :) > Thess, I think either you're mistaken, or MIsty's been leading us on for books an' books. I think there are quite a few facts supporting the kal'en'al/v'kandis pairing theory: 1. The information Karal find in the old book. WHy would MIsty give us a clue like that if it wasn't true? 2. The fact he thinks about that fact again. UNless MIsty had to reach a page limit... 3. Need's story. We hear of 2 sets of Twins. UM...sounds like over time we've just lost one set. Or they got combined. 4. The info at the back of Oathbreakers, showing that, yes, The Star-Eyed has a SO. *-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-* Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High Court, Magus Minor, One In Black, and Firstborn Child of Danaan. _____________________________________________________________________________ Email: korendil-+AT+-icubed.net |Blue Bread Mold, the story must be told Email: jon_rubin-+AT+-bam_online.tfnet.com|Nothing keep you livin' like the Blue IRC: Korendil on #macintosh; Undernet|Bread Mold-- Leslie Fish *-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 18:45:52 -0700 (MST) From: mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Of sheep and cows... :) Message-ID: <199606200145.SAA23386-+AT+-primenet.com> At 02:22 AM 6/20/96 +0100, Seranna-+AT+-aol.com wrote: >On 06-19 Lady Becky, Goddess of Stress & Dry Breakfast Cereals wrote: >I am hereby applying for an extension on my taxes & tithes. I am still >looking for loopholes. How about - chocolate is an additive drug. You are >allergic to wool? >Okay, Okay....I will keep looking. I am not going down without a struggle!!! > >Seranna > Well, this year I'll let you slide. Have you contributed anything to society recently? If so, then you've paid your taxes. And chocolate is not an addictive drug. I can stop anythime I want to. Uh-huh. I'll just keep telling myself that. I'm not allergic to wool either. In fact, all of my winter garb is pure wool. I love it. It's so soft and warm! You'll never get out of it that way. Her Majesty (I've mastered shape-shifting. Today I made a complete ass of myself!) **** Her Majesty, Queen 'Reesa the Incorrigable **** By the grace of the gods, Queen of Everything, Defender of the Morally Questionable, Lady In Green, Cat Person, Keeper of the Cast List, And Close Personal Friend To Many Sheep. --------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 18:45:59 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Off-topic deity request Message-ID: <199606200145.SAA12105-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla! With everyone else being deified, I might as well get in on the act . Lady Thessaly, I humbly request the title of God of Useless Information and Irellevant Facts (since my last posts have had more useless info than Misty content , and I seem to beat everyone at WoT trivia in #tar_valon..."you mean that not everyone knows the two names people called Manetheren, or five False Dragons, or the total years of the Hundred Year wars *offhand*?????!!!!! (123 years, BTW...). In tribute I offer a flock of sheep in sailor uniforms... ObMisty: We're gonna have more deities in here than they do on Velgarth if this continues *gryn*... Zha'hai'allav'a... Cheysuli i'halla shansu... *************************************************** Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr VP of the VEVUWEC and member of the DMFs *************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 20:51:55 -0400 From: Jane Custer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Fire Rose (was Re: New to group with a bunch of Message-ID: <199606210051.UAA05324-+AT+-alpha.clarion-net.com> >Mat Cat Person and Adept wrote: >I know a better recent Misty book than SG!!!!! It's _The Fire Rose_!!!!! >I just read it, and I really liked it. > Hey, another Fire Rose fan. I was beginning to wonder if anyone other than me (and the local Lackey fans not on this list) had liked that book. If you liked tFR, you _should_ like Sacred Ground. Actually, I like SG even more than tFR. >I've got to say, I don't think that Misty likes San Francisco much. I don't really think its that she doesn't like SF much, IMO, I think its just that CA in general has a reputation for being crazy enough that just about anything could happen, and very few would notice. (At least that's the rep it has here in rural PA.) Sharon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 96 11:59:35 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Human Sacrifice / Gods / Zelazny. Was Re: Braid: Human Sacrifice/Attribution/Semantics Message-ID: <9606200159.AA17252-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Cennyd wrote: > As long as we are mentioning human sacrifice, what about Lot? > Admittedly, he didn't kill his daughters, but he did offer them up to a > mob in an attempt to pacify them (the mob, not the daughters) and protect > his divine visitors. Sounds like sacrifice to me. That bit never really did make sense to me, even purely from a practical point of view.. On the most common interpretation, you have a mob of men demanding Lot bring out male divine visitors, presumably for rape. Lot turns around and offers them his daughters. Umm, yeah, they'd be likely to jump at that offer. Perhaps Lot was smarter than he seemed. :) Either that, or 'common' interpretation is wrong and the mob were planning to beat the men rather than molest them. In which case, it puts a rather different slant on the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah. Since I don't read Hebrew to read the original, I have no idea whether this could be right, but could it be possible that the mob was excited, but benign? The divine visitors may well have looked divine (impossibly beautiful or that sense of complete serenity) and the mob may have wished to see for themselves. No offence intended, I'm just curious.. (If anyone cares, I was raised Roman Catholic, though my family tended to lapse into non-practicing once we moved from the town where I was born, or at least into solo practicing). :) > ObMisty: Somehow, I can't see the Star-Eyed countenancing rape as a > sacrifice, can you? Then again, the Star-Eyed is a bit simplistic, as > far as deities go. Everything is cut-and-dried and clean. Even the > choice that she gave the Clan-Chiefs was pretty "clean." None of Misty's > characters seem to have to make the really dark choices for their > religion (Except the Karsites during the reign of the False Sons). > Certainly none of her characters have the same problem faced by religious > people in our world: how to believe in and love a god who never manifests > directly, while all around you there is sorrow, suffering, and evil. No, she wouldn't countenance rape - if only for the simple reason that *all* her people's sacrifices are self-sacrifices rather than sacrifice of others. My background's showing, but I have no trouble believing that there's a heck of a lot more power and emotion involved in a willing self-sacrifice than there is in sacrificing someone else. The major major distinction between Misty's gods and the bulk of the religions in our world, is that most of our religions assume that Deity is omnipotent. The only other real difference between there and here is that Misty's gods sometimes manifest directly - there's still sorrow and suffering and evil. Tayle'sedrin still got massacred. The Shin'a'in still had to pledge their entire existence to a goddess-santioned cause. Look at Valdemar for example - I don't think any of the people worshipping there, have seen a direct manifestation of their Deity. Nor those in Hadorn. And they've suffered and sorrowed and lost. None of Misty's god[desse]s are a sure thing. People can pray and make sacrifices to them and even when they're totally out of their depth, sometimes they don't respond. I imagine a lot of people in Valdemar have died with their deity's name on their lips, just as a lot in our world no doubt have. Good people die there for no reason, just as they do in our world. The family that Skif was so close to. Randale and Shavri. The people who die by accident or chance. The Tayledras who get killed by the Heart-stone - you think the Star-Eyed didn't know about the corruption of the Heart-stone? I agree that things are cut and dried and clean wrt the Star-Eyed Goddess, in the sense that, if she responds, she makes it clear and her answer is not ambiguous. But that's the only distinction IMHO. The Star-Eyed -has- to be hard on her people - that's the only reason for her requiring the sacrifice of lives as she tends to - if she's not that hard, it's worse for her people in the long run, she'd be robbing them of their independance and their free-will. There's a time in every adolescent's life where they need to move out, metaphorically or literally, of their parent's all-encompassing care if they're ever to stand on their own and achieve their potential. The people of a Deity are the same. Just as the adolescent doesn't lose contact with their parents, neither do the people lose the love of their Deity - it's just that they cannot be cradled, protected from all harm without being stunted. And at least one religion in Valdemar condemns homosexuality which means that hard choices do exist for some people. And no doubt there are other hard choices. As for Dark choices, well, I can't think of any in our world offhand, that the people in Velgarth might not have to face. The characters in Velgarth have free-will - and this means that there will be suffering and all the rest, just as the 'free-will' bit on our theologies here is used to explain why things can be so bad. But sit back a moment and think how hard it must be for a Deity to sit back and give us that precious gift of free-will. How hard it must be to sit and watch your children die and hurt and suffer, when it must be so tempting to reach forth and protect them all their lives. How much it must wound the soul to let a someone die, for whatever reason. Really kinda makes you think that the Deity must love their people to make the harder decision like that. I recently saw this on the Amber (the series of books by Roger Zelanzy) mailing list: "I think what I more meant is that Bleys is the Hollow Man because Bleys has never really been challenged. Bleys is the talented, the gifted, the football hero valedictorian who dated the homecoming queen -- and who you liked anyway, because he was just such a great guy. Bleys has not, IMC, IMO, (please salt this little rant with those TLA's) ever really had to /try./ He has never had his heart broken -- who could refuse him? He has never found a situation too hard for him. He is golden and glorious and still, somehow, tragically innocent, because Bleys has never known the kind of true agony that Corwin wallows in. And this is his weakness, because one day he will meet the thing he cannot beat. And he will have no idea what to do..." And that's the true tragedy. But I begin to ramble.. (For those who haven't read the Zelanzy Amber series - read them read them read them. Repeat ad infinitum. His best is as good as Misty's.) Please note that my background is showing through the above post like flood-lights through tissue paper so sprinkle liberally with IMHO's; and I apologize if I've offended anyone's sensibilities. Cheers, Kerry. "And I'll arise, to the stars, Golden feathers and flame I'll fly. I'll touch your dreams in the dark, Remember the glory that time passed by." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:06:12 -0400 From: Seranna-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Mega-Snips (Ack!) Message-ID: <960619220611_333600591-+AT+-emout10.mail.aol.com> I truly enjoy being on this list, but lately the snips have been getting longer, and longer, and longer, and longer, and longer, etc....ad infinitum ad nauseum ad-lib (Huh?). I only read my mail once a day, and re-reading entire paragraphs over and over and over and over, etc..... is becoming monotonous. Alot of what y'all have to say is becoming hidden in the snips. And, I really enjoy 'hearing' what you have to say. I am not trying to flame anyone, nor am I trying to accuse anyone of doing this. You see, my mind was wandering while I was trying to read the mail. Suddenly, I saw this soapbox. Before I knew it, my fingers were typing and I had climbed atop the soapbox and.... REPENT all ye snip-addicts!!! Hear the word of the great Baron of Brevity, of the Countess of Conciseness, of the Seeress of Succinctness, ACK!!!!..... Sorry about that. I knew I promised I would put away my soapbox. I guess I fell off the wagon and right back onto the soapbox. I will do better next time Seranna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 16:52:05 -1000 From: Heart-Song To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List Subject: I'm not here! :) Message-ID: I just wanted to tell ppl that I am in BC and not really able to check my email every day. So....I'm not postponing but probably won't be writing. I'm still alive. :) If you really want me to see something, just email personally. Sorry for the off-topic post. :( Take Care, Ailima. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:57:08 -0700 (MST) From: samcpa-+AT+-rtd.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Of sheep and cows... :) Message-ID: <199606200257.TAA28138-+AT+-seagull.rtd.com> > >On Sat, 15 Jun 1996, Lady 'Reesa wrote: > >> By The Way people, taxes are due, and it doesn't matter what >> country you live in. I am Queen of Everything, so you still >> owe. I like chocolate. And sheep... >> >> Oops, I forgot, I wasn't going to mention them again. > >And I will give you some chocolate sheep. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:05:45 -0700 (MST) From: samcpa-+AT+-rtd.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Paying the Tax Message-ID: <199606200305.UAA28657-+AT+-seagull.rtd.com> >Heyla all! (Stop throwing vegetables at me! I'm not an evil Queen!) > > Okay, it's official, I have collected the tax, payed the tithe, and >we're through till next year. I have a large flock of chocolate sheep, a >chocolate Great Pyranese to watch over them, Golden Fruit Loops, and I think >some tofu. And thanks to Gyrfalcon, I have a huge supply of chocolate >covered coconuts, which I shall use as I see fit throughout the rest of the >year. You were right Lady Becky, the temptation is too great. I threw a >coconut at someone the other day. It was a bad thing, and I think I left a >lump on his head. (Sorry, and you know who you are...) If I've >forgotten anything, please forgive me. Even the Queen of Everything isn't >perfect! (Just as close as possible!) > >By all, >Her Majesty > >ObMisty: I remember the conversation that Van had with Mekeal, about the >Crown not taxing them if they trained troops, and I know Valdemar is a >feudal society, but I don't remember anything else about taxes. Oh, except >the chips that Talia had to take with her from the towns she stopped at >along the way. > >**** Her Majesty, Queen 'Reesa the Incorrigable **** > By the grace of the gods, Queen of Everything, > Defender of the Morally Questionable, Lady In > Green, Cat Person, Keeper of the Cast List, And > Close Personal Friend To Many Sheep. >--------------------------------------------- > Didn't Talia say to the Queen, when covering for Skif, that she didn't the people of her home town getting a tax break for producing a Herald? Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 02:28:14 -0500 From: Salli Bird To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Ahem... can we check textevd? Message-ID: <07281406134987-+AT+-misslink.net> Herald Michal wrote: >Well, no, actually, it was sacrifice as in burnt-offering. >Read the verses (Judges 12: 29 - 40) if you don't believe me > I would love to. Only Chapter 12 of Judges only goes to verse 15 in the Knig James version. Which version were you reading? Striking out for independence by running my own business at home And YOU can be independent also. Ask off-list for details. Salli Bird/Director Bird Information International Valthrea aka The Bird Woman bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 03:39:35 -0400 (EDT) From: skarzin-+AT+-soonet.ca (Tony and Michele) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Paying the Tax Message-ID: <199606200739.DAA14414-+AT+-victory.soonet.ca> >>Heyla all! (Stop throwing vegetables at me! I'm not an evil Queen!) >> >> Okay, it's official, I have collected the tax, payed the tithe, and >>we're through till next year. I have a large flock of chocolate sheep, a >>chocolate Great Pyranese to watch over them, Golden Fruit Loops, and I think >>some tofu. And thanks to Gyrfalcon, I have a huge supply of chocolate >>covered coconuts, which I shall use as I see fit throughout the rest of the >>year. You were right Lady Becky, the temptation is too great. I threw a >>coconut at someone the other day. It was a bad thing, and I think I left a >>lump on his head. (Sorry, and you know who you are...) If I've >>forgotten anything, please forgive me. Even the Queen of Everything isn't >>perfect! (Just as close as possible!) >> >>By all, >>Her Majesty >> >>ObMisty: I remember the conversation that Van had with Mekeal, about the >>Crown not taxing them if they trained troops, and I know Valdemar is a >>feudal society, but I don't remember anything else about taxes. Oh, except >>the chips that Talia had to take with her from the towns she stopped at >>along the way. >> >>**** Her Majesty, Queen 'Reesa the Incorrigable **** >> By the grace of the gods, Queen of Everything, >> Defender of the Morally Questionable, Lady In >> Green, Cat Person, Keeper of the Cast List, And >> Close Personal Friend To Many Sheep. >>--------------------------------------------- >> >Didn't Talia say to the Queen, when covering for Skif, that she didn't the >people of her home town getting a tax break for producing a Herald? > >Stephen > > >Your Majesty, you didn't mention the short, hairy dog, does that mean I get to keep her? Honest, she looks a lot like a sheep. Really. Michele ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 03:51:08 -0400 From: Mick Prieur To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Ahem... can we check textevd? Message-ID: <199606200751.DAA15182-+AT+-mur.odyssey.on.ca> Salli Bird wrote: >Herald Michal wrote: >>Well, no, actually, it was sacrifice as in burnt-offering. >>Read the verses (Judges 12: 29 - 40) if you don't believe me >> >I would love to. Only Chapter 12 of Judges only goes to verse 15 in the Knig >James version. Which version were you reading? Try Judges 11: 29-40. I had the same problem, and then just went hunting around nearby until I found something the right length that made sense. -Nora who never remembers anything long enough to quote it ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 08:53:25 -0400 From: Robbie Betts To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Off-topic deity request -Reply Message-ID: >>> Herald Michal 6/19/96, 10:19pm >>> Heyla! With everyone else being deified, I might as well get in on the act . In tribute I offer a flock of sheep in sailor uniforms... <<< Herald Michal in Marine uniforms would probably be more appropriate. (E-mail me privately for details) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 08:50:41 EST From: "Diana L. Heald" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Bible 101 Message-ID: <1C700FA7F7D-+AT+-ais.syr.edu> OK gang here goes The Bible does not tell exactly how long it took to create the world. It says six days, but how long is a day when there is no sun or earth. It could be how long it takes the universe to rotate once. At any rate, the Bible tells what and we spend the rest of the time figuring out how. The Bible is a book of faith, not science. The people back then were not interested in how. In short, no details. Adam and Eve had to have many children - only the important ones were mentioned. I can't believe that they had two children - bang, bang and then didn't have any until the boys were grown and on their own. That is hardly conducive to populating the earth. Now for Cain and Able. God required a blood sacrifice (precurser to Christ's blood sacrifice). Instead of trading Able for a lamb with his grain, he offered the grain instead. In short, his heart was not in the right place. He proved that by killing his brother. Shall we go on to Jepthah? Here, again, arrogance was his downfall. No one knew when he would be returning from battle, so he figured that he would see a dog or something when he got back. Instead his daughter, who loved him very much, waited for him. He felt that he was duty-bound to sacrifice her. She asked for a month to be with her friends before it happened. She was granted that and the Bible doesn't really say what happened to her after that. Some Jewish tradition has that she entered the service of the tabernacle. Her sacrifice was to remain a virgin all her life. I don't know what really happened. It sounds like something to put on your list of questions when you see God. (I have a very long list.) Here, again, this wasn't something God asked for. Abraham and Isaac. Everybody talks about Abraham being so good that he was going to sacrifice his hope for immortality (Ishmael was already turned out into the desert). Think about the boy. Abraham was very old and Isaac was a young man (not the little boy you usually hear about). He did not fight with his father and let himself be bound and sacrificed. I think (IMHO) that God knew that Abraham would go through with it, but He had to prove it to Abraham. Abraham already knew that the nation of Israel (not in so many words) would be founded by Isaac, but God had to show Abraham that He would protect Isaac until this happened. (I wouldn't doubt that Abraham would have left the most protective father in the dust.) I don't remember if the Bible says to burn witches or this is something that the Middle Ages made up as they went along (they were very good at that). It does say that "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.". Let's face it, the Israelites were not very good about their religion. Every time you turned around, they were worshipping a new, pagan god. If there was something different around, they'd have a go at it. God didn't want to leave temptation just laying around. Now these witches were ones who were worshipping other gods and were practicing divination and calling the dead back (you'll recall that Saul went to a witch and had her conjure up Samuel about his future (and was Samuel mad). I don't believe God meant the midwives and healers that the Middle Ages tended to target. Women's magic was very intiminating to Middle Ages theologians. As an aside, I didn't say anything about burning witches. I like non-Satanic witches. Also the Spanish Inquisition got a bad rap. The Jesuits that were the primary scholars rejected most of the arguments about witches and actually killed fewer people than the other countries in Europe. They just got the worse press. I, too, have heard of Lilith. I sometimes wonder if it was a story told warn "uppity women" back then. I don't remember God putting women down. In fact, I vaguely remember, when they were handing out land in the promised land, seven daughters of a man with no sons got a fair share as well as the sons of others. Now for Lot. The reason that the people of Sodom rejected his daughters for the Angels was because the sin of Sodom was homosexuality (sorry, please don't take this personally) and they were very promiscuous (which I don't approve of in any sexual preference). That's why two virgins didn't turn them on. If you remember, Lot's family weren't all that good either. His wife was turned into a pillar of salt for looking back (really disobeying God). His daughters got him drunk and "laid" with him and got pregnant (of course, they thought that the whole world was gone and he was the only man left). At any rate, the whole family didn't turn out too well. Ok I'll finally quit and let you get on with your lives. I didn't mean this to get so long. Diana *********************************************************** Diana L. Heald Syracuse University Email: dlheald-+AT+-ais.syr.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 09:11:18 -0400 From: Robbie Betts To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Virus Alerts -Reply Message-ID: Just politely try to inform them (in a private e-mail) about this as a hoax, and add a little more like the little boy wanting postcards/business cards who want in the Guinness Book, the Modem Tax, the Make Money Fast, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 07:29:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Of sheep and cows... :) Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Mat Timmerman wrote: > On Mon, 17 Jun 1996, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > > > It will also relieve you completely of all stress, and leave you > > ready to face the Ugliness Men. > > > Everybody wants prosthetic forheads on their real heads > > *They*Might*Be*Giants* > > I think that *someone's* been hitting _Flood_ a little hard. Sure, now > I'm going to have to go listen to it and reread the TMBG scene in _Chrome > Circle_. Thanks loads Becky. ;) > > Mat Who? Me? Well, maybe just a bit......Glad to help! I figure you're about due for another re-reading, it's for your own good, really it is. :) You know, I have never read that book yet, I don't think we have it. I'll have to go get it, just to read that part, well, and the rest of the book, because it is a Misty book, and it must be good. *^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_ Lady Becky, Goddess of Stress & Dry Breakfast Cereals Everybody wants prosthetic forheads on their real heads *They*Might*Be*Giants* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 07:38:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Human Sacrifice / Gods / Zelazny. Was Re: Braid: Human Sacrifice/Attribution/Semantics Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Kerry Mealing wrote: > But sit back a moment and think how hard it must be for a Deity to sit > back and give us that precious gift of free-will. How hard it must be > to sit and watch your children die and hurt and suffer, when it must be > so tempting to reach forth and protect them all their lives. How much > it must wound the soul to let a someone die, for whatever reason. > Really kinda makes you think that the Deity must love their people to > make the harder decision like that. > > Cheers, > Kerry. > Exactly! That's one of the points of Christianity as well. That's what I tell people when they ask why God lets people murder and die. There actually seems to be a lot in common with Velgarth Gods, and the Christian God. But I suppose that's because a God/Goddess had to be completely good, and after that, there's little room for aything else. *^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_ Lady Becky, Goddess of Stress & Dry Breakfast Cereals Everybody wants prosthetic forheads on their real heads *They*Might*Be*Giants* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 07:30:46 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (kirchner family) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Ahem... can we check textevd? Message-ID: <199606201430.HAA13447-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla! >Herald Michal wrote: >>Well, no, actually, it was sacrifice as in burnt-offering. >>Read the verses (Judges 12: 29 - 40) if you don't believe me >> >I would love to. Only Chapter 12 of Judges only goes to verse 15 in the Knig >James version. Which version were you reading? >Striking out for independence by running my own business at home >And YOU can be independent also. Ask off-list for details. >Salli Bird/Director Bird Information International >Valthrea aka The Bird Woman >bird4ever-+AT+-misslink.net Alright, to those of you who can't find it, this here's what the version I have avaiable says...its admittedly simplistic, but there you are : Ooops...Its chapter 11, BTW......go figure... "Then the spirit of the Lord came upon Jepthah. He crossed Gilead and Manasseh, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites. And Jepthah made a vow to the Lord: If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of my door to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering. Then Jepthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands. He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinityof Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon. When Jepthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tamourines! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried: Oh! My daughter! You have made me miserable and wretched, because I have made a vow to the Lord I cannot break. My father, she replied, you have given your word to the Lod. Do to me just as you promised, now the Lord has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. But grant me this one request, she said, Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry. You may go, he said. And he let her go for two months. She and the girls went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin." So, there you are. The correct cite (by this copy) is Judges 11: 29 - 40. Sorry if there was any confusion. *************************************************** Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr VP of the VEVUWEC and member of the DMFs *************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 15:33:51 +0100 (BST) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Virus Alerts -Reply Message-ID: <9606201433.AA20196-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > > Just politely try to inform them (in a private e-mail) about this as > a hoax But you need to remind everybody *else* that it's a hoax, as fast as possible, in the hope that they'll find out it's a hoax before *they* start spreading it. And it's probably worth repeating that any flames/annoyance in the messages are directed at the hoax, and not the innocent victims whose helpfulness is exploited to keep these things circulating :-). -Jerry -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 96 08:14:00 PDT From: Ericx Tobias To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Lilith... Message-ID: Someone mentioned Adam's first "wife". Lilith is not from The Bible. She is from another religion, which is currently eluding me. I remember reading a book (the title escapes me) Lilith. It was pretty good. Kinda gave a history about where her origins were. Here's a funny thought. I don't remember Adam and Eve getting married. Therefore they were guilty of pre-marital sex. That is unless creation by God qualifies as marriage... :) ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 629 *********************************