MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 630 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Aaaaaaghhhhhhh! by Topaze Smoke 2) Son of the Sun by pedetl-+AT+-rockdal.aud.alcatel.com (Traci L. Pederson) 3) Re: Paying the Tax by David Tiffany/Shawn Walker 4) Re:Weather/ by Becky Anne Christensen 5) Fire Rose/Lilith/stuff by Clarissa Smith/Claris Boii 6) Re: The Fire Rose (was Re: New to group with a bunch of by David Snyder 7) Re: Off-topic deity request by David Snyder 8) Re: Vkandis/Kalendra by David Snyder 9) Re:Weather/ by skarzin-+AT+-soonet.ca (Tony and Michele) 10) weather by Marsha Spence 11) Re: Aaaaaaghhhhhhh! by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 12) Re: ACK!! I'm leaving!! by Mat Timmerman 13) RE: Children & Duty by Mat Timmerman 14) Re: The Fire Rose (was Re: New to group with a bunch of by Mat Timmerman 15) Re: Of sheep and cows... :) by Mat Timmerman 16) Re: The Fire Rose (was Re: New to group with a bunch of by Mat Timmerman 17) Re: The Fire Rose (was Re: New to group with a bunch of by skarzin-+AT+-soonet.ca (Tony and Michele) 18) Re: Bible by Shadow-Lover 19) Re: Lilith... by Kim Weatherford 20) Re: Of sheep and cows... :) by Becky Anne Christensen 21) Re: Bible by Becky Anne Christensen 22) Re: Vkandis/Kalendra by David Tiffany/Shawn Walker 23) Re: Of sheep and cows... :) by kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) 24) Braid: Filial Duty/Bible interpretation/Karma by Topaze Smoke ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 11:41:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Topaze Smoke To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Aaaaaaghhhhhhh! Message-ID: Ok, that's it! The next person that posts a 2+ page quote with only a couple lines of commentary is going to face the wrath of the Mage of Green Silences! This constitutes fair warning in accordance with the standard practices of flaming! And you know who you are, so I shan't name names (yet)! May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Quand tu entendras le vent dans la vallee, Que tu verras l'aigle en liberte, Que tu sentiras le printemps venir en toi, Ce sera moi, ce sera moi. Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 96 10:47:19 CDT From: pedetl-+AT+-rockdal.aud.alcatel.com (Traci L. Pederson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Son of the Sun Message-ID: <9606201547.AA29045-+AT+-aud.alcatel.com> I had a thought last night after having recently re-read the Storm books, eagerly awaiting the third. From what Ulrich say about Karal being a true priest and a warrior of the spirit and the fact he has a firecat. Might not it seem possible that he will be the next Son of the Sun. He is probably half the age of Solaris. Traci' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 10:05:21 -0700 (PDT) From: David Tiffany/Shawn Walker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Paying the Tax Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 1996 samcpa-+AT+-rtd.com wrote: > Didn't Talia say to the Queen, when covering for Skif, that she didn't the > people of her home town getting a tax break for producing a Herald? > AotQ (p145, chap 9 SFBC version)"`I-I wanted to make sure I wasn't in them anymore.' To her own surprise, she felt hot, angry tears atarting to make her eyes smart. `Thet didn't want me-well I don't want them, not any of them, not ever! Skif told me Sensholding could claim Privilege Tax when I earn my Whites, and I don't want them to have it!'" David Tiffany, the ever obliging! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 12:21:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Weather/ Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Vrondi wrote: > On 14 Jun 96 Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > > > > Gosh, if you want to know about bad humidity, think New > > Hampshire. We were there a couple years ago in the summer, and that place > > was what I imagine hell to be like :) I couldn't bear to take hot > > Yes, Becky, but West Virginia is farther south then New Hampshire, > and it is totally mountains-no place for the haze to go. Imagine New > Hampshire's humidity, only a bit more of it, and a bit hotter. Totally > trees. everywhere. I love the trees, and I love the mountains, but I > > -Vrondi And you live there?!?!?! How can you do that? Don't you just die? I would not be able to take that, I would sit on a couch in a pile of ice, and hibernate. *^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_ Lady Becky, Goddess of Stress & Dry Breakfast Cereals Everybody wants prosthetic forheads on their real heads *They*Might*Be*Giants* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 15:09:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Clarissa Smith/Claris Boii To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Fire Rose/Lilith/stuff Message-ID: > On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Amy, Alice, & Jim Trivitt wrote: > > ps. does any one know when _Breaking_ is coming out?!?!?!?!?! I'm in > > Misty withdrawl and I was not happy at all with _Silver Gryphon_ > I know a better recent Misty book than SG!!!!! It's _The Fire Rose_!!!!! I'm waiting for _Breaking_ too, and everybody's beginning to scare me about SG. I didn't have any enthusiasm for TFR (I hate Victorian-era or early 20th century fantasy, it just bothers me) but I should have known better. Extensive apologies for all the nasty thoughts I had about it. > Another thing. A while back, we were discussing how Misty's strong-female > characters are often too masculine (you know what I mean). Well, I think What's *that* supposed to mean?? Re: Lilith: Lilith appears in the Jewish tradition. I can't remember if she is also in the Apocrypha or not. Also, may I point out that Piers Anthony's creationism/evolutionism argument is simply a distillation of Clarence Darrow's famous case. --Herald Rythkana, who finally decided on cyberpunk theme for ridiculously ambitious (ie impossible) art project. Claris Smith (ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu) * I can't eclipse your ideals, Art/History Major * but I'll buy you a watch Sf/fantasy/graphic artist * when we get to Shanghai. GM & game writer * --Alexis Smith (no relation) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 16:21:31 -0400 From: David Snyder To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Fire Rose (was Re: New to group with a bunch of Message-ID: <199606202021.QAA26912-+AT+-brickell.bridge.net> At 08:28 PM 6/19/96 +0100, you wrote: >tFR has an interesting story, and I really liked the characters (unlike >Blade and Tad). >Now, after I read Pamela Dean's _Tam Lin_, I'm going to read _Sacred >Ground_. >Mat *************** I really enjoyed The Fire Rose (but not enough to buy it in hardback.) I think what I liked best (other than the descriptions of the food they ate) was the real-life touches she gave Rose, such as liking to read all curled up in her chair, feet up. Those were NICE. On the other hand, Pamela Dean's Tam Lin remains one of my favorites of all time. I've loaned it out twice, and it got kept for two years the first time, so I bought a new one, loaned that out, she moved without returning it, then I got the first one back, and that's ok too. That's not a book I can go without, that's a favorite! Lady Thessaly ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 16:21:48 -0400 From: David Snyder To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Off-topic deity request Message-ID: <199606202021.QAA26921-+AT+-brickell.bridge.net> At 03:18 AM 6/20/96 +0100, you wrote: >Lady Thessaly, I humbly request the title of God of Useless Information >and Irellevant Facts (since my last posts have had more useless info >than Misty content , and I seem to beat everyone at WoT trivia in >#tar_valon..."you mean that not everyone knows the two names >people called Manetheren, or five False Dragons, or the total years of >the Hundred Year wars *offhand*?????!!!!! (123 years, BTW...). >In tribute I offer a flock of sheep in sailor uniforms... >Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr >*************************************************** I'm really sorry, Herald Michal, but you're going to have to request a different title, I already have a God of Useless Trivia, and it's too close. (I am the ex-consort of the God of Useless Trivia, so I picked up an amazing amount on my own.) Try again, or phrase it differently. I take the tribute, though, and I'll enjoy it immensely. Actually, I take it back, Useless Info is NOT necessarily trivia, just info that hasn't had a use found for it yet. Tell you what. I'm gonna do one mass post with lots of ceremonies (I need time to think up some new silliness) and you'll be on it, I'll probably work it out during laundry tomorrow. Be seeing you. Lady Thess ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 16:21:43 -0400 From: David Snyder To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vkandis/Kalendra Message-ID: <199606202021.QAA26918-+AT+-brickell.bridge.net> At 03:07 AM 6/20/96 +0100, you wrote: >>(snip) > I think there are quite a few facts supporting the >kal'en'al/v'kandis pairing theory: >1. The information Karal find in the old book. WHy would MIsty give us a >clue like that if it wasn't true? >2. The fact he thinks about that fact again. UNless MIsty had to reach a >page limit... >3. Need's story. We hear of 2 sets of Twins. UM...sounds like over time >we've just lost one set. Or they got combined. >4. The info at the back of Oathbreakers, showing that, yes, The Star-Eyed >has a SO. *-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-*-+AT+-* I still disagree. I think Kal'en'al would say that the SO of Vkandis was another ASPECT of herself, in the same way Kethry's Lady Windborn was, meaning "all gods are one god, all goddesses are one goddess." straight from Mists of Avalon. However, the Twin Gods of Need have similar names to Kal'en'al, (well, two) but I think that that means that Need's people lived closer to the Dhorisha Plains. Karse, on the other hand, if you look on the maps in WoF, is three countries, two mountain ranges, and a river away from the Dhorisha Plains, which isn't really close enough to account for the migration of ONE Goddess, particularly since Vkandis is a single aspect deity, and Kal'en'al is a diety of seasons. Also, it makes sense for the terrain--nomads are MUCH more likely to develop four-fold dieties than farmers and herders. Furthermore, think about what they're worshiping--Karse--SUNGOD, meaning that's what they need/want, Plains People--Maiden, Warrior, Mother, Crone/Rover, Guardian, Hunter, Guide. People tend to worship something that they need on a regular basis, at least in slightly more primitive (primitive in the technological sense) cultures. That's my reasoning, and I think Misty threw in that bit about Vkandis's consort in order to throw Karal further out of balance as a mind-opener. Lady Thess ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 16:46:56 -0400 (EDT) From: skarzin-+AT+-soonet.ca (Tony and Michele) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Weather/ Message-ID: <199606202046.QAA02428-+AT+-victory.soonet.ca> >On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Vrondi wrote: > >> On 14 Jun 96 Becky Anne Christensen wrote: >> > >> > Gosh, if you want to know about bad humidity, think New >> > Hampshire. We were there a couple years ago in the summer, and that place >> > was what I imagine hell to be like :) I couldn't bear to take hot >> >> Yes, Becky, but West Virginia is farther south then New Hampshire, >> and it is totally mountains-no place for the haze to go. Imagine New >> Hampshire's humidity, only a bit more of it, and a bit hotter. Totally >> trees. everywhere. I love the trees, and I love the mountains, but I >> >> -Vrondi > And you live there?!?!?! How can you do that? Don't you just die? >I would not be able to take that, I would sit on a couch in a pile of >ice, and hibernate. > *^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_ > Lady Becky, Goddess of Stress & Dry Breakfast Cereals > > Everybody wants prosthetic forheads on their real heads > *They*Might*Be*Giants* > > What's heat? I live in Ontario, where the snow just melted about 3 weeks ago. Winter lasts at least six months, and summer is just a couple of days wedged in between Spring (wet and cold), and Fall (also wet and cold). Last winter we had more than 200 inches of snow. The Mall roof caved in and the whole city shut down for a week. Michele in Ontario (where many are cold, but few are frozen!) > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 16:54:43 -0700 From: Marsha Spence To: Postings-Mercedes Lackey List Subject: weather Message-ID: <31C9E4C3.67B1-+AT+-cord.org> > What's heat? I live in Ontario, where the snow just melted about 3 weeks ago. Winter lasts at least six months, and summer is just a couple of days wedged in between Spring (wet and cold), and Fall (also wet and cold). Last winter we had more than 200 inches of snow. The Mall roof caved in and the whole city shut down for a week. Michele in Ontario (where many are cold, but few are frozen!) Sounds marvelous! This week's weather has been 80 to 100% humidity with temps in the upper 90's to lower 100's. I'll take rain and snow any day over heat and humidity. -- ==================== Marsha M. Spence Waco, Texas e-mail: mspence-+AT+-cord.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 96 10:09:52 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Aaaaaaghhhhhhh! Message-ID: <9606210009.AA17925-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Cennyd wrote: > Ok, that's it! The next person that posts a 2+ page quote with only a > couple lines of commentary is going to face the wrath of the Mage of > Green Silences! Absolutely! And the next person to post with a 15 line sig, well, we don't want to scare the innocent. :) Cheers and innocent looks. Kerry. -- "668: The Neighbor of the Beast" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 22:03:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ACK!! I'm leaving!! Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Leah Postrech wrote: > Okay...here's the official announcement... > In **5** days (ahhh!!) I'm unsubscribing...not off my own choice, > but because I have to. I have to cancel my Netcom account, and will > only have e-mail access through AOL. The reason I can't keep the list > on AOL is because I have a 2400 modem and it takes 15 minutes to get > just one day of mail and I can't afford that. :P If I ever get a > faster modem and/or a new account somewhere with unlimited access > (within my rather limited price range) I'll be back on, but till > then...:( Boooo! We'll miss you 'Dessa! Why do you have to cancel netcom (If you're keeping AOL, it can't be $ !!!) ? Come back to us soon! Mat Cat Person and Adept | "Say hello to the frog." mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | from "The Garden" http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ | by Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 22:07:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Children & Duty Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Korendil wrote: > >ObMisty: There *are* convents on Velgarth! Do you think the Shin'a'in might > >have convents for those sworn to the non-warrior aspects of their Goddess? > >Hmmm... > > Well, I dunno about Shin'a'in...but we know that Valdemar has em...if > only from the beginning of AoQ. Talia's family mistakes her not wanting > to marry as her having a vocation...and she thinks that the convents > would be just as bad. Anyway, I don't think they really need > convents...how would a nomadic group have one? I think those sworn to > other aspects get trainign with others of the same, and lead nice, > peaceful, lives...though the madien ones may stay celebate too. There's also the fate that Vanyel thinks might be in store for him if Withen finds out that he's shaych. The part about priesthoods that take unwilling members for money, and gives them oaths of silence. > > Wow....I think this is my first post for ages and ages and ages. Taht's > what happens when you don't check your mail for 1.5 months. You just go > erase all of it and start anew. > Yeah, I thought that we'd lost you. Kind of like Jeneke, Chonni, etc. Does anyone remember what ever happened to them? Casualties of the mini flame-wars last fall? Mat Cat Person and Adept | "Say hello to the frog." mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | from "The Garden" http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ | by Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 22:10:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Fire Rose (was Re: New to group with a bunch of Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Jane Custer wrote: > >Mat Cat Person and Adept wrote: > > >I know a better recent Misty book than SG!!!!! It's _The Fire Rose_!!!!! > >I just read it, and I really liked it. > > Hey, another Fire Rose fan. I was beginning to wonder if anyone other than > me (and the local Lackey fans not on this list) had liked that book. If you > liked tFR, you _should_ like Sacred Ground. Actually, I like SG even more > than tFR. _Really_?!?!? SG was a major disappointment for me. I was so eager and had a lot of trouble finding it (sure, now I see it everywhere), then nothing. It was dull, honestly. > > >I've got to say, I don't think that Misty likes San Francisco much. > > I don't really think its that she doesn't like SF much, IMO, I think its > just that CA in general has a reputation for being crazy enough that just > about anything could happen, and very few would notice. (At least that's the > rep it has here in rural PA.) > Well, I sort of meannt it as a joke. I don't actually think that Misty dislikes San Francisco. In fact, why would she write 2 (that I remember) book there if she didn't? Mat Cat Person and Adept | "Say hello to the frog." mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | from "The Garden" http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ | by Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 22:14:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Of sheep and cows... :) Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Mat Timmerman wrote: > > > > I think that *someone's* been hitting _Flood_ a little hard. Sure, now > > I'm going to have to go listen to it and reread the TMBG scene in _Chrome > > Circle_. Thanks loads Becky. ;) > > Who? Me? Well, maybe just a bit......Glad to help! I figure > you're about due for another re-reading, it's for your own good, really > it is. :) You know, I have never read that book yet, I don't think we > have it. I'll have to go get it, just to read that part, well, and the > rest of the book, because it is a Misty book, and it must be good. You're probably right, it is time for a reread. After my library books (including a reread of Born to Run, my favorite SERRAted Edge book). The only part of CC that I remember clearly is the TMBG scene. I don't recongnize all the songs mentioned (the band isn't in the book or anything like that), but the Flood ones had be rolling on the floor. Mat Cat Person and Adept | "Say hello to the frog." mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | from "The Garden" http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ | by Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 22:23:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Fire Rose (was Re: New to group with a bunch of Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, David Snyder wrote: > I really enjoyed The Fire Rose (but not enough to buy it in hardback.) I > think what I liked best (other than the descriptions of the food they ate) > was the real-life touches she gave Rose, such as liking to read all curled > up in her chair, feet up. Those were NICE. Those are some of the things that I like the best about Misty. She makes the characters seem real. I think that SG's weak plot would have been more bearable if I had actually been able to like Blade and Tad. But I just couldn't. Oh, and I didn't buy the book either -- good old Brooklyn Public Library (central one, _I_ have more fantasy than the branches do) to the rescue! > > On the other hand, Pamela Dean's Tam Lin remains one of my favorites of all > time. I've loaned it out twice, and it got kept for two years the first > time, so I bought a new one, loaned that out, she moved without returning > it, then I got the first one back, and that's ok too. That's not a book I > can go without, that's a favorite! I'm reading it now. I like it, but it's beginning to get on my nerves a bit. I'm about 2/3 of the way done, and nothing Tam Lin-ish seems to have happened. There are only a few odd things to keep it from being just about a few college kids and their love lives. But those Classics majors _are_ weird. Well, off to read some more! Oh, and Lady Thess? Can I be the God of Procrastination? I even procrastinated in writing a persuasive speech about procrastination for my Oral Communications class. Well, you could always do it latter. Yeah, later, thats it... you can do it tomorrow.... or next week... :) Mat Cat Person and Adept | "Say hello to the frog." mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | from "The Garden" http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ | by Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 22:49:14 -0400 (EDT) From: skarzin-+AT+-soonet.ca (Tony and Michele) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Fire Rose (was Re: New to group with a bunch of Message-ID: <199606210249.WAA13155-+AT+-victory.soonet.ca> >On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Jane Custer wrote: > >> >Mat Cat Person and Adept wrote: >> >> >I know a better recent Misty book than SG!!!!! It's _The Fire Rose_!!!!! >> >I just read it, and I really liked it. >> >> Hey, another Fire Rose fan. I was beginning to wonder if anyone other than >> me (and the local Lackey fans not on this list) had liked that book. If you >> liked tFR, you _should_ like Sacred Ground. Actually, I like SG even more >> than tFR. > >_Really_?!?!? SG was a major disappointment for me. I was so eager and >had a lot of trouble finding it (sure, now I see it everywhere), then >nothing. It was dull, honestly. > >> >> >I've got to say, I don't think that Misty likes San Francisco much. >> >> I don't really think its that she doesn't like SF much, IMO, I think its >> just that CA in general has a reputation for being crazy enough that just >> about anything could happen, and very few would notice. (At least that's the >> rep it has here in rural PA.) >> > >Well, I sort of meannt it as a joke. I don't actually think that Misty >dislikes San Francisco. In fact, why would she write 2 (that I remember) >book there if she didn't? > > >Mat >Cat Person and Adept | "Say hello to the frog." >mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | from "The Garden" >http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ | by Heather Alexander > > >I really enjoyed SG! In Northern Ontario, where I live, there is a lot of interest in Native Canadian beliefs, customs, folklore etc. In this area, the tribes are mostly Ojibway and Chippewa. Sweat lodges and ceremonies, like the Sweet Grass ceremony are still very important in the Native community here. Michele ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 23:36:24 -0400 From: Shadow-Lover To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bible Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960621033624.0068f53c-+AT+-popd.ix.netcom.com> At 03:01 AM 6/18/96 +0100, you wrote: >At 01:10 AM 6/18/96 +0100, you wrote: >>So they have. The Bible has been mistaken for centuries. I prefer to >>choose the `love your neighbour' bit. I don't go in for `burn wiches' >>bit. >>Cherylexit >****************** >Oh, one other interesting tidbit, which is in several chunks. Parts of the >Bible were SEVERELY mistranslated. It's not "Thou shalt not suffer a WITCH >to live." It's "Thou shalt not suffer a POISONER to live." Makes sense, huh? > >Also, the Commandment "Thou shalt not kill," is actually "Thou shalt not >murder." That makes heap big difference, yes? > >But I forget who said it, but the basis of all the worlds major religions is >the same. "Love thy neighbor." That makes the most sense of all. > Lady Thess, who loves semantics > > > My favorite mistranslation in in Corithians I (I think)... The way it's presented is sex between men in an abomination to God... The real translation, however, deals with sex between BROTHERS meaning *incest* not *homosexuality*... Conveniently overlooked details... :) I'll get the actual verse and post it later tonight... - Shadow-Lover ************************-=E-mail-WDJPEJ-+AT+-ix.netcom.com=-*********************** * - Stability is based on foundations, and man is made of quicksand... * * - Mortis * * - Hold on to nothing as fast as you can... * * - Tori Amos * *******************************-=IRC: Hairenn=-******************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 23:40:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Weatherford To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lilith... Message-ID: IIRC, the story of Lilith is known in the Jewish religion. Its in the bible, just not the more recent King James version. Kim Jesus saves! Passes to Moses......He shoots, SCORES!!!!!!!!! On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Ericx Tobias wrote: > Someone mentioned Adam's first "wife". Lilith is not from The Bible. > She is from another religion, which is currently eluding me. I > remember reading a book (the title escapes me) Lilith. It was pretty > good. Kinda gave a history about where her origins were. > > Here's a funny thought. I don't remember Adam and Eve getting > married. Therefore they were guilty of pre-marital sex. That is > unless creation by God qualifies as marriage... :) > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:29:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Of sheep and cows... :) Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 1996, Mat Timmerman wrote: > On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: > > On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Mat Timmerman wrote: > > > > > > I think that *someone's* been hitting _Flood_ a little hard. Sure, now > > > I'm going to have to go listen to it and reread the TMBG scene in _Chrome > > > Circle_. Thanks loads Becky. ;) > > > > Who? Me? Well, maybe just a bit......Glad to help! I figure > > you're about due for another re-reading, it's for your own good, really > > it is. :) > > only part of CC that I remember clearly is the TMBG scene. I don't > recongnize all the songs mentioned (the band isn't in the book or > anything like that), but the Flood ones had be rolling on the floor. > > Mat What do they mention about TMBG? Are they just singing songs or something? By the way, if you have Comedy Central, Monty Python and the Holy Grail comes on tomorrow at eight I think, maybe it's seven, I don't know, check the listing, but anyways, this is your chance to finally see that movie, and you really have to see it, actually, that goes for everybody, let's all watch it, and when they mention coconuts, think happy loving thoughts at everyone, and we'll make a little love-web, kinda neat, eh? I'm going to go into Monty Pythin mode tomorrow, I am not responsible for my actions, the larch made me do it! *^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_ Lady Becky, Goddess of Stress & Dry Breakfast Cereals Everybody wants prosthetic forheads on their real heads *They*Might*Be*Giants* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:36:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bible Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Jun 1996, Shadow-Lover wrote: Parts of the> >Bible were SEVERELY mistranslated. > > > My favorite mistranslation in in Corithians I (I think)... The way > it's presented is sex between men in an abomination to God... The real > translation, however, deals with sex between BROTHERS meaning *incest* not > *homosexuality*... Conveniently overlooked details... :) I'll get the > actual verse and post it later tonight... > - Shadow-Lover There you guys go again, expanding my ever sheltered horizons and making me think about what I believe. Gosh. Just kidding, this is wonderful having all this stuff, because this is the kind of stuff they never tell you in church, more convienently left out things. Yes I want to know about this as well. I've only had one Christian teacher person that has ever really taught me useful things, and boy did he ever. Pointed out a whole bunch of paradox's, and anything we said, he grilled us on it, and made us realize what we believe, not just dishing out churc lingo answers that mean nothing, really made us look at ourselves, and humble ourselves. Is there a copy of ant of the original sections of the Bible? I think I want to learn Hebrew so I can red the originals for myself, not depend on translators, because language really can't be translated without losing meaning. *^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_ Lady Becky, Goddess of Stress & Dry Breakfast Cereals Everybody wants prosthetic forheads on their real heads *They*Might*Be*Giants* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:57:27 -0700 (PDT) From: David Tiffany/Shawn Walker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vkandis/Kalendra Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, David Snyder wrote: > Mists of Avalon. However, the Twin Gods of Need have similar names to > Kal'en'al, (well, two) but I think that that means that Need's people lived > closer to the Dhorisha Plains. I can't find the textevd right now (my daughter had her b'day party this afternoon and I'm reeling with exhaustion right now) but I thought Need's former incarnation was *before* the Mage Wars and hence the creation of the Dhorisha plains? Or are you suggesting that Need lived near some sort of Proto Kaled'a'in group? If so what evidence supports this? I'm very confused. David Tiffany ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:58:12 -0700 (MST) From: kirchfa-+AT+-AZStarNet.com (Herald Michal) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Of sheep and cows... :) Message-ID: <199606210458.VAA20650-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com> Heyla! > What do they mention about TMBG? Tannim gets captured by the unseleigh (sp?) and since he knows he can't get out, and they have a mind-reader monitoring him, he decides to drive him crazy by reciting TMBG lyrics. Its a truly great scene :) >Are they just singing songs or >something? By the way, if you have Comedy Central, Monty Python and the >Holy Grail comes on tomorrow at eight I think, maybe it's seven, I don't >know, check the listing, but anyways, this is your chance to finally see >that movie, and you really have to see it, actually, that goes for >everybody, let's all watch it, and when they mention coconuts, think >happy loving thoughts at everyone, and we'll make a little love-web, >kinda neat, eh? I'm going to go into Monty Pythin mode tomorrow, I am not >responsible for my actions, the larch made me do it! > > *^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_*^_ > Lady Becky, Goddess of Stress & Dry Breakfast Cereals > > Everybody wants prosthetic forheads on their real heads > *They*Might*Be*Giants* Anybody interested in connecting to #valdemar on undernet while its on so we can enjoy it together? :) Just an idea...y'know, one might question why I watch it when I have the normal version *and* the Director's Cut on tape already...and to them I say...:P. Yes, you can have too much Monty Python (j/k ;) ), but that doesn't mean you have to stop watching... "Then up spoke a bonny boy, sitting at the Kings right knee, "Sir Patrick Spens is the very best seaman that ever sailed upon the sea." - Sir Patrick Spens (Fairport Convention) *************************************************** Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr VP of the VEVUWEC and member of the DMFs *************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 01:45:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Topaze Smoke To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Braid: Filial Duty/Bible interpretation/Karma Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, "Perkins,Cheryl" wrote: BOQ>>>Subject: RE: Children & Duty >>>I was taught that I owe a duty to my parents as long as they live. When I am out on my own, I don't need to follow their beleifs.<<< Hmmmm. My parents always taught me that becoming a parent was an act of unconditional giving. They taught me that I don't "owe" them anything for bringing me into the world. That I give them my love is a gift from me to them. On the other hand, a child that lives in the household of his/her parents owes them obedience and respect. This is merely what any decent person owes to the person who is supporting them. But once a child is out on their own, they don't owe their parents obedience or respect (although, if their parents have done a good job, the child will give both--to some extant--out of love). >>>My sole surviving parent (my mother) is now looking for a home. I owe her support. She raised me.<<< I suppose that at some point I will be in this sitch. And my parents know that I will always be willing to take them in and support them. But it will not be out of duty. It will be out of love. And they know that all I will ask from them is the same thing they asked from me as a child: respect and a willingness to live by my rules while under my roof. -----EOM On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Kerry Mealing wrote: BOQ>>>Subject: Human Sacrifice / Gods / Zelazny. Cennyd wrote: [snippage of the story of Lot] >>>That bit never really did make sense to me, even purely from a practical point of view.. On the most common interpretation, you have a mob of men demanding Lot bring out male divine visitors, presumably for rape.<<< Actually, the Bible doesn't really say why the mob wanted Lot's guests. However, let me point out that the sin of Sodom and Gommorrah was *not* homosexuality (as is popularly believed). The sin for which they were destroyed was the sin of inhospitality and the violation of guest rights. That, and general immorality, were the reasons for the fall of the cities. >>>I imagine a lot of people in Valdemar have died with their deity's name on their lips, just as a lot in our world no doubt have.<<< Hmmm. This brings up a thought. I wonder if dying with your deity's name on your lips qualifies you for the Havens (or whatever paradise your religion has) in Velgarth. I know that the Catholic Church still does plenary indulgences (I think that is the term) in our world. The idea of a PI is that, if you are Catholic and die with a penitent heart and the name of Christ on your lips, you will be granted absolution of sins whether you have had a chance to be shrived properly or not. Or do the deities of Velgarth not care for such things? >>>Really kinda makes you think that the Deity must love their people to make the harder decision like that.<<< I have always thought that this argument was a crock. It always begs the question of why give people free-will in the first place? We think it is valuable because we have it, but if we didn't have free-will, we would never even think that things might be different and we wouldn't miss it. -----EOM On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, "Diana L. Heald" wrote: BOQ>>>Subject: Bible 101 >>>Now for Lot. The reason that the people of Sodom rejected his daughters for the Angels was because the sin of Sodom was homosexuality (sorry, please don't take this personally) and they were very promiscuous (which I don't approve of in any sexual preference).<<< As I stated above, homosexuality was not the sin of Sodom and Gommorah. Homosexuality was mentioned, in conjunction with a number of other socially unacceptable things as examples of the licentiousness of the cities and the general immorality of their people. But the main sin, for which the cities were destroyed, was the violation of the guest rights of the angels. (I think I will have to see if I can't locate my Bible and get the appropriate textevd on this.) -----EOM On Thu, 20 Jun 1996, Ericx Tobias wrote: BOQ>>>Subject: Lilith... >>>Someone mentioned Adam's first "wife". Lilith is not from The Bible. She is from another religion, which is currently eluding me. I remember reading a book (the title escapes me) Lilith. It was pretty good. Kinda gave a history about where her origins were.<<< Ummmm. Actually, Lilith is from Torah. She is part of the Jewish legacy in Christianity. In Torah, Lilith is the first wife of Adam, created of dust. This has been discussed before on the list. -----EOM On Fri, 21 Jun 1996, Becky Anne Christensen wrote: BOQ>>>Subject: Re: Bible >>>Is there a copy of ant of the original sections of the Bible? I think I want to learn Hebrew so I can red the originals for myself, not depend on translators, because language really can't be translated without losing meaning.<<< a) I hope that you are prepared for the fact that you will have to learn Biblical Hebrew (which is not at all the same as Modern Hebrew) in order to read the older forms of the Bible. You will also need to learn Greek and Latin (Luke is in Greek and I am pretty sure that some of the Epistles are in Latin). b) This issue of translation is why muslims do not consider translations of Qur'an to be the real thing. And a true muslim must learn Classical Arabic. One of the articles of faith in Islam is that Qur'an is the *direct* word of God (as opposed to the Bible, which is the *inspired* word of God). Because translation always involves distortions and shifts in meaning, it is a sin to translate (distort and shift) the word of God. Just thought you might want to know this. See, I have bits of trivia too! -----EOM BTW, Lady Reesa, can I be recognized as the God of Karma? I am already known to my friends as the Master of Karma, so maybe, with your able assistance I can ascend to the godhead? May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Quand tu entendras le vent dans la vallee, Que tu verras l'aigle en liberte, Que tu sentiras le printemps venir en toi, Ce sera moi, ce sera moi. Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 630 *********************************