MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 742

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Hi, newpersons/coincidence/good sf/lifebonds
	by Claris Smith <ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu>
  2) Comp. Powers
	by NaClare-+AT+-aol.com
  3) Re: RE: Got another one/Quotes
	by "Jenna Wilson" <jenna-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU>
  4) Re: RE: Got another one/Quotes
	by Sean Talbot <ad074-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>
  5) Re: Rolan's empathy/ How 1st mages got trained
	by Sean Talbot <ad074-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>
  6) Elspeth's Gifts
	by kerowyn-+AT+-annex.com
  7) Heralds of Valdemar vs. Queen's Own.
	by Jake <rynath-+AT+-webspan.net>
  8) Voyager's Captain's hair
	by Kintara-+AT+-aol.com
  9) Fruit Braid aka Iowaaay/Gods/teenagers
	by David Tiffany/Shawn Walker <davidt-+AT+-cet.com>
 10) Reincarnation/Welcome/Heralds of Valdemar/King Valdemar/Teenage
	by myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
 11) Sorry!!!
	by myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
 12) Fluff-Objects of Unrequited Love/Lust
	by LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com
 13) In defense of Firesong (long!)
	by LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com
 14) Re: I'm back now... braiding... is it safe?
	by philip dancause <dancause-+AT+-erols.com>
 15) Re: Morally Bankrupt
	by philip dancause <dancause-+AT+-erols.com>
 16) Re: howdy
	by philip dancause <dancause-+AT+-erols.com>
 17) Re: wrists
	by David Snyder <khethael-+AT+-bridge.net>
 18) Re: Kimberly's barrage of questions!
	by David Snyder <khethael-+AT+-bridge.net>
 19) Mages/Talia/1st Herald Mage
	by Delia <snowstar-+AT+-singnet.com.sg>
 20) Re: RE: Got another one/Abrev. List/Firebird's Retail
	by chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg
 21) Re: Heralds on circuit/Re:Tantras/Ancar and Talia/First Herald
	by chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg
 22) Hi Again
	by !NF!N!T! <addang-+AT+-mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
 23) 1st mages/Companion powersmind-magic//bi/rehab for criminals/angels
	by aw2-+AT+-mail.idt.net (Kimberly)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 15:07:55 -0500
From: Claris Smith <ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Hi, newpersons/coincidence/good sf/lifebonds
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960803200755.00739138-+AT+-comp.uark.edu>

HI.  I'm still here, really.  <groan>  Actually, yesterday was pretty
good--I saw an excellent Ridley Scott movie, "Black Rain", and read a good
book, _Liege-Killer_ by Christopher Hinz, which I recommend to any sf fans.

'Allo 'allo <in Peter Caine's atrocious fake French Canadian accent>, new
persons, ;) hi Scarlett, how's your boss?; zhai'helleva, Alex, be at home;
nice to meetcha, Heather, we've heard a lot about you; and whoever else,
consider yourselves ming-bowed-at.

YOu know, for something so massive, I certainly run into a lot of
serendipitious coincidences (this from the Dept. of Redundancy Dept.) on the
Internet.  The first time I went into the lab on campus, I was pretty
nervous, and not very comfortable with all the wiz users staring at me, but
when I sat down, the guy in front of me was on a chat channel, busily
conversing with a "Vanyel Ashkevron".  I felt at home instantly (gee, Van,
you didn't have to come all this way, but I appreciate it anyway ;)).  

Speaking of lifebonds (aren't we always?), the Highroad Trilogy had a sort
of biological lifebond between two characters (Kyosti, one of the Fictional
Men I shouldn't fall in love with, but it's too late), with some lethal
consequences; the books dealt a lot with the massive repercussions of such
bonds.  It's definitely a different treatment of a similar subject.

ObMisty:  Oh, come on.  I don't feel like thinking :(.  Uh, well, this is
true, anyway, IIRC, Misty does avoid overusing the Magic Wand of Coincidence
(no relation to tCotPW!), for which I'm very grateful.  Well, I'm going to
go try creating an image map for my home page now, I've set Eudora on
check-mail every 2 minutes (Eudora, people, is a gift for which I can never
thank you enough!), so I'll see you later.
*Claris Smith, Art/Hist. Major, GM, sf/fantasy Artist, Gung Fu Student*
 	*Mail me for info on Razorbattles game con & Art Show!*
 *ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu; 4045 Abington Ct. Fayetteville AR 72703-5065*
-On a journey, ill, and over fields withered, dreams--go journeying still-


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 16:19:34 -0400
From: NaClare-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Comp. Powers
Message-ID: <960803161931_591627747-+AT+-emout19.mail.aol.com>

I think that the Companions are reincarnated spirits of Heralds, as
foreshadowed in Mpromise and SWarning, and I qoute from Mpromise "And he had
that curious and disorienting double image of her that he'd gotten somtimes
in the past, the image of a dark, wise-eyed  woman, weary, but smiling with
newly-kindled anticipation, flickering in and out with the graceful white
horse." and from SWarning " Obvisously, they are exectly like your
companions, execpt there are fewer of them. I assume that is because the are
fewer deceased Sons than ther are deceased Heralds." That is why I think
that.

Any body have any other Ideas?
 
                        Andrew (A.K.A. Miskar)


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 16:28:07 EST
From: "Jenna Wilson" <jenna-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: RE: Got another one/Quotes
Message-ID: <9342FB5E2E-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU>

> >The Heralds of Valdemar is the official title of the trilogy which we 
> >tend to call the Talia books or the Arrows trilogy. ;)
> 
> But, why? TLHM series, the Winds series, the Storms series, they are all
> about Herald of Valdemar, yes? So why single out one trilogy with that name?
> Just 'cause it was her first?

I think so.  I don't know if she knew she'd be _writing_ other books 
about the Heralds, therefore, she called the The Heralds of Valdemar.

Off-topic: Goooooooooo Andre! (we're watching Olympic Tennis at 
work!)

-+AT+->--- Jenna... Stormcloud and the menagerie, Lady of the Mists, One in Black, 
Mistress of Hot Caffeinated Beverages, Goddess of Chat Rooms and Obsession
Jenna-+AT+-simcl.stjohns.edu * http://members.tripod.com/~Stormcloud/index.html

"It is our prerogative to imagine in one we love all of those gentle feelings
that hope can supply, and to continue to do so until harsh reality intervenes
with its war chariots and spears, with its broken assignations and revealed
deceptions, crying, 'Here I am!  You must face me whether you will or nill!'"
--Steven Brust, The Phoenix Guards

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 16:24:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sean Talbot <ad074-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: RE: Got another one/Quotes
Message-ID: <199608032024.AA29173-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>

Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com writes:
> 
> >The Heralds of Valdemar is the official title of the trilogy which we 
> >tend to call the Talia books or the Arrows trilogy. ;)
> 
> But, why? TLHM series, the Winds series, the Storms series, they are all
> about Herald of Valdemar, yes? So why single out one trilogy with that name?
> Just 'cause it was her first?
> 
> I'll always forgive you but never forget you,
> Lady Nightshadow aka Shady
> Goddess of Forgiveness
> 

The reason I believe it is so because Talia has been a major character in 
all the later books and has had some major roles.  Why not call it that 
because there are the most amount of heralds and gives more information 
about the gifts then in any other books.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 16:27:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sean Talbot <ad074-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Rolan's empathy/ How 1st mages got trained
Message-ID: <199608032027.AA29356-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>

Raingcats-+AT+-aol.com writes:
> 
> >a) the gods are getting a sense of humour about the bond and the Chosen
> >being made to share Rolan's little trysts.
> 
> Talia shared his little trysts 'cause she was the one with the empathy and
> their bond was one that she couldn't shield herself from him. And she didn't
> tell Rolan what he was doing to her 'cause she didn't want to disrupt his fun
> so he had no clue what he was doing which probably means he didn't have
> Empathy.
> 
> >b) Rolan was once a Herald who had Empathy IRL
> 
> Grove-born weren't once heralds, remember? <g>
> _________________
> 
> If King Valdemar founded Valdemar and he and his son and some other guy
> (Don't remember who) became the first heralds who became the first
> Herald-Mage? And who trained them? If nobody could be trained after Van died
> because there was nobody to recognize the gift who trained the very first
> Herald-Mage?
> 
> I'll always forgive you but never forget you,
> Lady Nightshadow aka Shady
> Goddess of Forgiveness
> 
That question is very easy to answer since King Valdemar ran from a 
tyrranical lord and had been trained before.  By the time Valdemar died 
there was a few more chosen they never specified who but they had to have 
had a mage there who was trained by King Valdemar.ATE1V1I3
AT&F&A3&B1&H1&R2&D2&C1X4S0=0S7=90



------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 14:32:46 -0800 
From: kerowyn-+AT+-annex.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Elspeth's Gifts
Message-ID: <TCPSMTP.16.8.3.14.32.46.2648551851.2821084-+AT+-bbs.annex.com>

Re: Elspeth's Gifts
..
Elspeth has Farsight - it's a part of her Mage Gift.  Remember - she's
the one who "saw" Talia after she had been tortured at the end of AF.
-
Kyla



------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 19:04:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jake <rynath-+AT+-webspan.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Heralds of Valdemar vs. Queen's Own.
Message-ID: <199608032304.TAA14970-+AT+-orion.webspan.net>

Shady  wrote:
someone wrote):
>>The Heralds of Valdemar is the official title of the trilogy which we 
>>tend to call the Talia books or the Arrows trilogy. ;)
>
>But, why? TLHM series, the Winds series, the Storms series, they are all
>about Herald of Valdemar, yes? So why single out one trilogy with that name?
>Just 'cause it was her first?

Because... *gasp* that's what Misty called it.  *grin*  People call it the
Arrows Trilogy, and the SFBC calls it Queen's Own. *shrug* To each his own.
I still think the official line is The Heralds of Valdemar Trilogy.

Peace and balance.

-- 
O--------------------------------O  O-----------------------------------O
|  Jake Adamo / Rynath in Green  |  |   Misty Information FAQ Admin.    |
|       rynath-+AT+-webspan.net       |  |  God of Parody and Top Ten Lists  |
| http://www.webspan.net/~rynath |  | Avatar of Humor / Ladies in Green |
O--------------------------------O  O-----------------------------------O

The world is a comedy to those that think; a tragedy to those that feel.
- Horace Walpole


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 19:34:56 -0400
From: Kintara-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Voyager's Captain's hair
Message-ID: <960803193455_171131389-+AT+-emout15.mail.aol.com>

Speaking of Star Trek Voyager remember the conversation about the Captain's
hair?  Well I don't know if you got that setlled but I found out how she did
it, it is a wig.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 16:55:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Tiffany/Shawn Walker <davidt-+AT+-cet.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Fruit Braid aka Iowaaay/Gods/teenagers
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.94.960803163508.8686A-100000-+AT+-cet.cet.com>



On Sat, 3 Aug 1996 RacheG-+AT+-aol.com wrote:

> 
> By the way, I'm new, but I was so curious that I had to ask that before I
> introduced myself.  My name is Rachel, I'm 13 years old, and I live in Iowa.
>  I have a pet bird, a pet dog, and I love to read, write, and rollerblade.

So where in that pit of misery and despair (Ioway) do you live? I grew up
where Story & Jasper countys come together and fled as soon as they let me
out! 8)# "Iowa a place to grow old & slow" "It's not the heat, it's the
humidity(yeah right)" Oh Yeah-welcome to the list! ((((hug)))

*()**(&*^&%##$#!~-+AT+-$#%^%^^&^*)&()_+({{}}{{}:">:<>?<./,./';[]-=)_)()*(*&&^%$

btw, didn't we used to have an offical greeter?

()*()&*^%^&$%#$-+AT+-~#!$^&*^*(&*()&*(&^&%^$%^$++{}:"{:":><>?""}}{:">>?+__)_)(*^&*%

On Sat, 3 Aug 1996 Kimberly said;


>>>>>>>>Anyone think that the Empire was way different in Valdemar's time?
Because
they msut have had gods to call on in order for Valdemar to be praying to
them, so maybe it wasn't so mathematical, logical, etc.<<<<<

But they do have Gods! little Gods, big Gods, Gods for all occasions! Gods
by the bushel, Gods by the cartload!

(And in Purple, I'm stunning.)

()*(*(*^&%^^&%^#-+AT+-~!-+AT+-#$#$%%^^^&&*&*()+)()_()*(&^^%$#$#%)__+{{}:":">?><>?""}{

On Sat, 3 Aug 1996 Sarah Worley <das> told Jake;

>>>>>	Good boy! *pat pat pat* *have a doggie biscut* :)<<<<<

Hey(The familys Old, Blind (etc) Sheepdog raises his head) Woof,
woof,howl!!!!! (tranlation-how come he gets the goodies-he's not even a
dog!) 

)()*)*((&^%^%$#-+AT+--+AT+-!-+AT+-#~~$#$%^&)&*&_()*:{}:":>><>?<:"{}_+))_*&*^%%$||?\\[][][;',=-

OBMisty: Do they have teenage rebellion in Valdemar? Other than the
former Brat I mean. Or are they all goody two-shoes? I meana they're all
so serious, it's almost scary!

david Tiffany, giddest typoer 

  



------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:09:25 +0000
From: myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Reincarnation/Welcome/Heralds of Valdemar/King Valdemar/Teenage
Message-ID: <199608040202.VAA23993-+AT+-cdale1.midwest.net>

Poison Ivy wrote:
>>>ObMisty:  In Magic's Pawn, Savil mentions Tantras.. Isn't that Kris'
>>>Companion, 
though?<<<

That's what I thought, too. I guess he was reincarnated?
====================================
Rachel wrote:
<snip>
>>>Also, I have read Tiger
Burning Bright.  It's and AWESOME book.<<<

YES!!! That's the first Misty book I ever owned! It's really great, isn't
it? Anywho, welcome!

====================================
Lady Nightshadow wrote:
>>>>The Heralds of Valdemar is the official title of the trilogy which we 
>tend to call the Talia books or the Arrows trilogy. ;)

But, why? TLHM series, the Winds series, the Storms series, they are all
about Herald of Valdemar, yes? So why single out one trilogy with that name?
Just 'cause it was her first?<<<

Maybe she didn't plan on the overwhelming popularity of the books, or
didn't plan on writing another series. I prefer to call the trilogy
"Queen's Own," which is the spiffy title that the SFBC gave the trilogy.
Isn't that a little less confusing?

====================================
Lady Shady also wrote:
>>>If King Valdemar founded Valdemar and he and his son and some other guy
(Don't remember who) became the first heralds who became the first
Herald-Mage? And who trained them? If nobody could be trained after Van died
because there was nobody to recognize the gift who trained the very first
Herald-Mage?<<<

Maybe there were mages who recognized and trained potential mages with King
Valdemar. Any old Adept mage <g> can train other mages, from what I
perceive. Anyway, I think after Van died, mages stayed *away* from
Valdemar, heck magic practically died out in Valdemar other than
Mind-magic. Remember how before Elspeth studied magic people would discuss
magic in council sessions but soon afterwards forget about it? No one could
train mages afterwards because either Van's spell drove them away or they'd
forget about talking about magic. Please don't flame me if that didn't make
sense?

====================================
Andrew/Miskar wrote:
>>>I think that the Companions are reincarnated spirits of Heralds, as
foreshadowed in Mpromise and SWarning, and I qoute from Mpromise "And he had
that curious and disorienting double image of her that he'd gotten somtimes
in the past, the image of a dark, wise-eyed  woman, weary, but smiling with
newly-kindled anticipation, flickering in and out with the graceful white
horse." and from SWarning " Obvisously, they are exectly like your
companions, execpt there are fewer of them. I assume that is because the are
fewer deceased Sons than ther are deceased Heralds." That is why I think
that.<<<

Y'know, if word got out to the Heralds and their families that the Heralds
after they die, get to choose if they want to come back as Companions, it
might be hurtful to some family members. I really wonder what Yfandes was
like as a Herald. Didn't it also say in SWarning that Altra was an
exception because he wasn't reincarnated, or something like that? Sorry if
I don't make sense. I tried to call Carl(Melanie/Phoenix bangs her head
against the wall) but I got the answering machine. Translation: I'm a
little bummed.
====================================
Off-topic==>Kintara-+AT+-aol.com wrote:
>>>Speaking of Star Trek Voyager remember the conversation about the Captain's
hair?  Well I don't know if you got that setlled but I found out how she did
it, it is a wig.<<<

Really? Oh well. I've never seen her without the wig. Maybe she's bald like
all the other Trek show captains:).
===================================
David Tiffany wrote:
>>>OBMisty: Do they have teenage rebellion in Valdemar? Other than the
former Brat I mean. Or are they all goody two-shoes? I meana they're all
so serious, it's almost scary!<<<

I bet they do. It seems like a whole country of goody two-shoes because
we're basically talking about Heralds, right? Well, anyway, the Blues,
IIRC, are pretty mean, the closest thing they have to gang violence, don't
you think?
===================================


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:16:35 +0000
From: myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Sorry!!!
Message-ID: <199608040210.VAA24746-+AT+-cdale1.midwest.net>

I sent y'all a braid, but I forgot to sign it. Sorry about that. If you see
a nameless braid, it's Summersong's! Lady Nightshadow -- please forgive me!
My tithe is a batch of your favorite chocolate-covered snack item.

Love,
Summersong

Points to Ponder:
Why do they report power outages on TV?
When you open a new bag of cotton balls, is the top one meant to be thrown away?

Quote: "The heart is a lonely hunter with only one desire: To find some
lasting comfort in the arms of a lover's fire" -- "The Heart is a Lonely
Hunter" recorded by Reba McEntire


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 23:09:12 -0400
From: LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Fluff-Objects of Unrequited Love/Lust
Message-ID: <960803230912_376882768-+AT+-emout07.mail.aol.com>

This post is VERY silly and just barely Misty related:

On Fri. Aug. 2, Mat wrote

>>Hey, if Silverfox is disqualified by his possible bi-ness, dosen't that go
for Darvish and Aaron too? We know that Darvish is bi, and Aaron has that
past thing with Ruth.<<

Well, Mat, if since you're going to *insist* on logic and consistency
<ladylike shudder> the Lilac Fairy regretfully must make the following
Official Decision: Silverfox, Aaron and Darvish are technically disqualified
as Official Objects of Unrequited Love/Lust of the Ladies of the Pink Wand
 <happy now, Mat? pout>

HOWEVER, <devious grin> this doesn't mean that the Ladies can't love/lust for
them Unofficially, now does it? If we were meeting in my bower, scrying in
the pool, and we decided to peek at our beloved Firesong, and he just
happened to be, uhm, *conversing* with Silverfox... Or if we were searching
out the Mage of Green Sequins, and we just *accidently* came across Aaron and
Darvish, er, uhm, *conversing*, well, that wouldn't be our fault, would it?
<nudge, nudge..weg.>
--------------------

And Mishi wrote:

>>Lilac Fairy I think that we should watch Firesong and Foreshadow, too. I
know they are real but don't you  think that they could be VERY entertaining
<WEG>. I think that we should watch Shadow-Lover too. I don't know if he
qualifies but he sounds yummy!!!! :-)<<

Well, Fireheart and Foreshadow ARE the imaginary personas of Le and Kevin, so
they DO qualify. And so, the Lilac Fairy believes, does Shadow-Lover. Ohh,
and what about Newbie Alex? Hee hee hee...

-----------------------
And Cennydd wrote:

>>I love an audience!  I am a different person in front of an audience.  <<

You certainly are! But the Lilac Fairy wouldn't DREAM of posting a detailed
description of your striptease act on such a refined, dignified list. Well,
not unless someone asks her.

------------------------

Poison Ivy and Catwoman have been added to the guest list for the LofPW party
next Saturday night. Virtual directions to the Lilac Fairy's bower will go
out probably on Thurs. 

-------------------------
Because everyone has decided to kiss and make up after some rather naughty
bickering ;-) the Lilac Fairy is giving everyone on the list a special fairy
gift: 

Sometime during the 48 hours after you read this, you will receive a small
but pleasant surprise. Even Mat. Even if he IS being an old stick-in-the-mud.


Lee Cox  <lilacfairy-+AT+-aol.com>
San Francisco Performing Arts Library & Museum (SF PALM)




------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 23:12:14 -0400
From: LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: In defense of Firesong (long!)
Message-ID: <960803231213_376882861-+AT+-emout19.mail.aol.com>

A few days ago, I wrote:
>>The general consensus seems to be that Firesong was being a jerk in SR.
**snip** Haven't we all had times when we said to ourselves "It's not fair!
Why can't everyone just do things my way and stop hassling me and why can't
my life just be simple and perfect? I don't deserve all this #%&*-+AT+-#!!!"  <<<

and on On Fri. Aug. 2 Summersong wrote:
>>>Okay, you have a point there; I guess he's only human. Come to think of
it, when he wanted a lifebond, An'desha, who was his lover, started to drift
away. <<<

As for the problem with An'desha, I think it's partly his own unrealistic
expectations, but An'desha shares the blame. An'desha seems very ambivalent
about the relationship, still sleeping with Firesong, but avoiding him most
other times. He never comes out and says, "Look, I'm sorry, but it's over."
There'd be a big emotional scene, and then they could both get on with it. 

Summersong: >>> But in a business situation that would affect his world, he
should have done whatever he could to stop, think, and listen to what the
others were doing. Instead, he went off on his own, trying to find a solution
by himself to a problem that could have been solved much more quickly if he
would have cooperated. But then, we wouldn't have a masterpiece of a book,
now, would we?:)<<<

I honestly don't think that *cooperating* with the Mage Committee is the best
use of Firesong's particular talents. The major part of his problem is that
he's being held back and distracted by the other mages. They want to analyze
his methods and break everything down into neat little logical components.
His way of working is intuitive and *poetic*- it works for him because that's
the way he thinks. It can be horribly difficult to cooperate with someone
whose thought processes work differently from your own. I tend to grasp
things in odd chunks rather than a step by step progression. Sometimes I get
behind others in learning something new, but then leap ahead quickly once I
start *digesting* those chunks. I can sometimes see the entire solution to a
problem at once. And I can get very impatient when I have to work with people
who have to take everything one little step at a time, or who can't or won't
juggle complex situations. Or who want to discuss to death every finicky
little detail instead of just DOING IT!!!!! So I can empathize with
Firesong's frustration. Yes, he needs to pool information and resources with
the others, but it can be #$%&*! aggravating to work with committees!

This is from SR (pg. 116-117, DAW hardcover):
Firesong is thinking about trying to work with the artificers and the foreign
mages:

"No. No, I cannot learn to like these artificers. I cannot learn to think
they way they do, or to admire the way they think." 

And a few lines later: "They've taken poetry and reduced it to a mathematical
formula, that's what they've done. But knowing the formula doesn't mean you
can produce poetry, it only means you can produce well-crafted doggerel."

The more he thought about it, the more he rebelled, soul and heart. He had
tried to work with them before, and in the end, neither he nor they had been
comfortable. 

"They keep trying to find ways to measure things that should be felt, not
measured. You can't take a ruler to a love affair, you can't hold up a gauge
to weigh sorrow, and you shouldn't try to find a way to measure magic!"

Picture Lee jumping up and down, arms waving, going "Yeah! What he said!" I
have this recurring dream, in which I am trying to fly. I know I can fly,
I've done it before, all I have to do is lean into the breeze and float
upward. But as I do, people keep grabbing my ankles, my arms, saying "Who do
you think you are? Get back down to earth like the rest of us." That's what's
happening to Firesong- the others want him to be humbled, to stop thinking
he's better than they are because he can fly and they can't. So instead of
letting him soar on the wind and seek answers to the riddle of the mage
storms, they keep insisting he has to walk on the ground with everyone else
to reach the answers.

Whew! I've been wanting to say all that for the longest time! And I never had
anyone to say it to!

Another peeve: Was anyone else bothered by the way Darkwind and Elspeth just
happened to walk in out of nowhere just as Firesong was about to incinerate
himself and Aya, then walk out again? The scene itself was good- a classic
*intervention* where Firesong's friends get him to see that he needs help-
but it bugged me that there was no follow up. Firesong reappears several
chapters later, acting like his old self, as if nothing had happened. He must
have been reasonably emotionally stable, because apparently no one objected
to him going to Urtho's tower and playing around with potentially devastating
weapons!

By the way, Summersong, this tirade :-) isn't directed at you. Many people
have commented on Firesong's less than hero-like behavior in SR. Your post
just got me started trying to think through just why I felt so strongly about
all of this. 

It also got me to thinking that it's going to be a LONG time until Storm
Breaking comes out!!!!! 

Lee Cox <lilacfairy-+AT+-aol.com>
San Francisco Performing Arts Library & Museum (SF PALM)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 23:23:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: philip dancause <dancause-+AT+-erols.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: I'm back now... braiding... is it safe?
Message-ID: <199608040323.XAA05577-+AT+-smtp2.erols.com>

At 04:37 PM 8/3/96 +0100, you wrote:

>Okay, now for my real ObMisty: Why is the Companion to the Monarch's Own
>always a stallion? What, for breeding purposes? To have a herd stallion?
>Companions aren't horses, they don't have to follow the instincts of what a
>horse would normally do. Hmmm... Might make things interesting in
>Compaion's Field if Rolan were a mare... ::blush::
>
>
Though it certainly would make things interesting if the Monarch's Own's
Companion could be a mare, there si one good reason for him to always be a
stallion.  The Monarch's Own is vital to the kingdom.  THat herald must be
prepared to do anything the Monarch needs at any time.  So must the
Companion.  Having a pregnant Companion might put a wrench in those
emergency state visits and envoys.
:)
Ami


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 23:34:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: philip dancause <dancause-+AT+-erols.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Morally Bankrupt
Message-ID: <199608040334.XAA06484-+AT+-smtp2.erols.com>

At 08:19 PM 8/3/96 +0100, you wrote:

>ObMisty:  In Magic's Pawn, Savil mentions Tantras.. Isn't that Kris'
Companion, 
>though?
>
>%%%Ivy%%%
>
>
Tantras was a herald in LHM. Tantris(?) is Kris' Companion.  Reincarnation?
Tantras was the herald who brought the discriminitory feelings about non
Herald-mages to Van's attention, and Tantris' Herald Kris, was passionitly
interested in the history of heraldic Gifts. Coincidence? I think not.
:)
Ami


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 23:40:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: philip dancause <dancause-+AT+-erols.com>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: howdy
Message-ID: <199608040340.XAA06718-+AT+-smtp2.erols.com>

Rachel wrote:

>In Arrows Fall, when Ancar caught her, why didn't Talia use her empathy to
>make him feel her pain?
>
Hi Rachel!  Welcome to the madhouse. Firstly, Ancar was sheilded using
magic, not mind-magic, which was something Talia had never encountered.
Secondly, she was still recovering from the goatsfoot poisoning.  Last but
not least, she had just Felt Alessandar die and wastched Kris die as well.
And she was terrified.  Somehow I don't think she was thinking too clearly
:)  She does rally in time to use her Gift on the Guards the second time
they come after her, but it uses all her strenght.
:)
Ami


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 23:58:11 -0400
From: David Snyder <khethael-+AT+-bridge.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: wrists
Message-ID: <199608040358.XAA10502-+AT+-brickell.bridge.net>

At 04:43 AM 8/3/96 +0100, you wrote:
>	For those of you with sore wrists, may I suggest going to a friend
>that studies Aikido or even Jujutsu (but Aikido is better for these
>purposes) and asking them to show you how to do the basic wrist stretches.
>These stretches can be altered slightly (experiment) into very beneficial
>muscle stretches (instead of nerve stretches).  I actually have not ever
>seen other stretches that these get.  Try to get them to teach you at
>least Nikkyo and Kotogaeshi.  I've found them to be very helpful when I
>have carpal tunnel symptoms. 
>					  Ailima.
******************
I'm in Martial Arts, and I do wrist exercises, and I can't do them anymore,
it hurts too much.  Thanks anyway, I'm not sure that it's carpal tunnel, it
may be tendonitis.
Lady Thessaly           "It's not enough to count the stars, you have to
Thesseldown              know them by Name."
Goddess of Nomenclature  
MKGC, Lady In Green           Meg from A Wind in the Door
     


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 23:58:17 -0400
From: David Snyder <khethael-+AT+-bridge.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Kimberly's barrage of questions!
Message-ID: <199608040358.XAA10506-+AT+-brickell.bridge.net>

At 06:59 PM 8/3/96 +0100, you wrote:
>> Okay, now for my real ObMisty: Why is the Companion to the Monarch's Own
>> always a stallion? 
>This is a _very_ good question!  I have no idea really.  Any theories 
>people?
********************
yeah, because no one likes to take a pregnant Companion on dangerous
missions, so that way, they don't have to. and BTW, (owie, owie, owww) they
keep calling Companions "Guardian spirits", only the Grove-born are not
reincarnates.
Lady Thessaly           "It's not enough to count the stars, you have to
Thesseldown              know them by Name."
Goddess of Nomenclature  
MKGC, Lady In Green           Meg from A Wind in the Door
     


------------------------------

Date: Sun,  4 Aug 96 14:46:59 PDT
From: Delia <snowstar-+AT+-singnet.com.sg>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Mages/Talia/1st Herald Mage
Message-ID: <Chameleon.4.01.2.960804144728.snowstar-+AT+-snowstar.singnet.com.sg>

Kimberly wrote:
>You know, I'm confused. Why do the Bad Guys [tm] get powers at all if magic
>is a gift from the gods? It's implied in the way that two Adepts were
>amongst the Heralds when the kingdom needed them, and it's implied in the
>fact that Griffon is a Firestarter, the likes of which no one's seen in
>ages... So how is it? Okay, I can understand Falconsbane and all his
>incarnations b/c he dates back to the Mage Wars, when the gods hadn't yet
>restricted their powers. But what about people like Hulda? Ancar? all the
>blood path mages hanging around?

Well, IMHO, gods really don't care that much unless it's a major major 
disaster which would affect lotsa people. Besides, in the MageWinds and LHM, 
wasn't there something about Mage Gif, etc.  breeding true in off-spring? 
(Sorry, no textevd at the moment.) After all, how did those mages from White 
Winds, Blue Mountain, etc. spring from? Gods?

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Rachel wrote:
>In Arrows Fall, when Ancar caught her, why didn't Talia use her empathy to
>make him feel her pain?

Probably b/c he was shielded. His private mages could shield Talia in her 
cell after all.
HI!!! Rachel!!!!

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Lady Nightshadow aka Shady wrote:
>If King Valdemar founded Valdemar and he and his son and some other guy
>(Don't remember who) became the first heralds who became the first
>Herald-Mage? And who trained them? If nobody could be trained after Van died
>because there was nobody to recognize the gift who trained the very first
>Herald-Mage?

THe some other guy was his Herald, which is why all Chosen are Heralds. IMHO, 
the 1st Herald-Mage was either already a mage or had that potential. The 
Companions probably taught or else *coerced* some other poor mage to do so. 

Lotsa Luv,
Delia aka Snowstar

Abstract Art: A product of the untalented, sold by the unprincipled to the 
utterly bewildered. --- Al Capp




------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 15:41:19 -0700
From: chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: RE: Got another one/Abrev. List/Firebird's Retail
Message-ID: <199608042241.PAA22296-+AT+-rgs.rgs.edu.sg>

>>But somehow, there was this girl we know who dislike LHM! She prefered
>>Heralds of Valdemar! 
>
>Um, Stormwind? TLHM stories *are* about Heralds of Valdemar. Do you mean AotQ
>and the Winds series?
>
Nope, AotQ, AFlight and AFall was called the Heralds of Valdemar Trilogy.
LHM was The Last Herald Mage Trilogy, a mix-up here!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All right, newbies. This is a call for all those who wants the abrev. list,
please send mail to me with Abrev. List as the subject (sometimes, I don't
read all the mail on the list). My address is chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, another call for people in Australia, New Zealand and Asia. If you are
interested in getting Firebird to set up a retail store in our region,
please send mail to me. My address is chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Last call for the First Discworld Novel. IIRC, it is currently one of the
rare books in America. However, there are many copies of it in Singapore.
Please send mail to me if you want a copy, and no, you do not have to get me
a book in exchange. Just drop a line to me. My address is chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"All those who would hold Magic's Power must then pay Magic's Price"
"All those who would be Magic's Pride must then pay Magic's Price."
--- The Last Herald Mage Trilogy by Mercedes Lackey


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 15:41:26 -0700
From: chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Heralds on circuit/Re:Tantras/Ancar and Talia/First Herald
Message-ID: <199608042241.PAA22300-+AT+-rgs.rgs.edu.sg>

>> No, wait, I think I have another one! (I can almost hear the groans...) How
>> do the Heralds manage to have time for their children if they're always on
>> circuit? Like Davan's parents...
>Well, I'd figure that they'd try to be stationed in Haven as much as 
>possible while the children are small.  But with the whole extended 
>"family" of the circle, I'm sure they wouldn't be neglected. Gee, 
>Herald Day-care?

In Storm Rising or Warning, Natoli told Karal about the other Heralds taking
care of her when her father was not around. Everyone in the Herald Circle
are good friends so I am sure no one minds being a stand-in parent. If you
live during the times when Talia was QO, she might even baby-sit your
children, looking at the way she takes care of newcomers in Haven, eg. Karal
and An'desha

-+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+-

>ObMisty:  In Magic's Pawn, Savil mentions Tantras.. Isn't that Kris'
Companion, 
>though?
>

Tantras was a Herald at the time of Vanyel. I think he came back recarnated
as a Companion. Tantras was the Herald who fussed over Vanyel when he came
back from the Border in Magic's Price.

-+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+-

>In Arrows Fall, when Ancar caught her, why didn't Talia use her empathy to
>make him feel her pain?

Ancar had shields on himself. I think Talia was unable to use her Empathy
after she was thrown into the prison cell, before that, she was too shocked
by Kris' death.

-+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+-

>If King Valdemar founded Valdemar and he and his son and some other guy
>(Don't remember who) became the first heralds who became the first
>Herald-Mage? And who trained them? If nobody could be trained after Van died
>because there was nobody to recognize the gift who trained the very first
>Herald-Mage?

Remember they had grove-born companions, companions can sense the gift and
can teach. Talia had help from Rolan when her gift went nuts! If you are
refering to Elspeth, she had the Tayledras teaching her

-+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+-
..
"All those who would hold Magic's Power must then pay Magic's Price"
"All those who would be Magic's Pride must then pay Magic's Price."
--- The Last Herald Mage Trilogy by Mercedes Lackey


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 22:15:31 -66000
From: !NF!N!T! <addang-+AT+-mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Hi Again
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.90.960804220711.11193A-100000-+AT+-mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU>


Hi All

Thanks To Fireheart and Foreshadow for your really really warm welcome. 
And <HUGS> to you guys too. Life bonds huh? Well, I'm still out searching 
for my own Vanyel too.

Anyway, I'm still in the midst of reading Misty's work. But what I find 
unfortunate is that here in Australia we're way behind practically the 
whole world, so I've read Storm Warning and now I'll have to wait an 
eternity for Storm Rising and it is excruciating, cause everyones talking 
about it... and I WANT to READ IT! Sigh.

But I'm patient.... yeah right. (:

Wind to thy wings...

 ./"" /""" ..../"" /"""""""" /"" /""" ..../"" /"" /"""""""""" /""
 ./"" /"""" .../"" /"""""""" /"" /"""" .../"" /"" /"""""""""" /""
 ./"" /"" "" ../"" /"" ..... /"" /"" "" ../"" /"" ..../"" ... /""
 ./"" /"" /"" ./"" /"""""""" /"" /"" /"" ./"" /"" ..../"" ... /""
 ./"" /"" ./"" /"" /"""""""" /"" /"" ./"" /"" /"" ..../"" ... /""
 .... /"" ../"" "" /"" ......... /"" ../"" "" ......../"" .......
 ./"" /"" .../"""" /"" ..... /"" /"" .../"""" /"" ..../"" ... /""
 ./"" /"" ..../""" /"" ..... /"" /"" ..../""" /"" ..../"" ... /""

p.s. To anybody that cares, I'm Say'a'chern.




------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 12:22:30 -0400
From: aw2-+AT+-mail.idt.net (Kimberly)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: 1st mages/Companion powersmind-magic//bi/rehab for criminals/angels
Message-ID: <v01540b00ae29799065e8-+AT+-[169.132.98.153]>

Welcome to the list, Rachel! : ) And any other newbies, too.

****************
Shady/ that wonderful Rangy Cat wrote:

>If King Valdemar founded Valdemar and he and his son and some other guy
>(Don't remember who) became the first heralds who became the first
>Herald-Mage? And who trained them? If nobody could be trained after Van died
>because there was nobody to recognize the gift who trained the very first
>Herald-Mage?

*gryn* The "other guy" was Herald Beltran. The first Herald-Mage was King
Valdemar (Davan's story mentions Valdemar was a "magician". And/or "wizard"
-- Misty's terminaology here's a little confusing. Um, iffn you meant the
first Herald-Mage trained *after* Valdemar, then I'd just take a stab in
the dark and say King Valdemar was responsible for training him/her, and
that after that, they sort of figured it out as they went along, possibly
with Companions aiding. And nobody could be trained after Van died, not
necessarily because there wasn't anybody to recognize the Gift (remember,
Healers can see a mage's aura; that's a ref to the "swirly blue glow" which
surrounds Vanyel; when Van panicked over whether Jisa may possibly have
inherited his mage-gift, Shavri mentions that the Healers see him that way)
but because people were made to forget about magic at all-- the direct
result of Vanyel's posthumous compulsion spell.

****************
Vrondi wrote:

>> For that list of Companion powers: I'm not very sure about this, but Rolan
>> must have some kind of Empathy in order to be communicating with Talia, so
>> maybe the other Companions have it too.

>hmm, Maybe the companions have ALL the "communications" family of
>gifts, and they haven't felt the need to tell us yet  ;)

Another Misty loophole! *laugh* We could all be lawyers, finding so many of
them...

>Or, here's an idea: Maybe Talia has empathy so she senses Rolan's
>emotions, but Rolan has thought-sensing, so he only senses her thoughts,
>and she only senses his emotions. so, he can read her thoughts, thus
>he alway knows what she means. So, he makes sure to project emotional
>responses and overtones to suggest his meaning.  There, did that make
>any sense at all?

Quoi? (trans: what?) But <whimper> I was so sure that in order to project
emotions into the thoughts, you had to have at least a trace of Empathy...
(although I'm going to shoot myself down and say that no one has only one
Gift, according to Ylsa. Does that apply to Companions)

>>Okay, I can understand Falconsbane and all his
>> incarnations b/c he dates back to the Mage Wars, when the gods hadn't yet
>> restricted their powers.
>What do you mean "gods restricted their powers"?

In order to prevent their warring on each other.

****************
ObMisty: How did that guy in rat-faced guy in Oathbound? (or was it
Oathbreakers?) use mind-magic to cast an "illusion" over himself so that he
could appear to everyone to be someone that they vaguely knew? Hummm...
thought-projection, I think, but doesn't that only extend to voices in your
head? (textevd: Kerowyn's perceptions, Vree, Amberdrake, Ke'chara, etc.
That's how it always appears, except for with Need, who sort of just pulls
you in, but she knows the ways of old magic *and* mind-magic. Maybe she has
Empathy, too.) There's something with Talia getting a picture of Neave, so
he probably used Empathy too, but how did he do it on such a mass scale?
****************
ObMisty again: Do people who are bi get three way lifebonds or none at all
,and does Amberdrake count as an example of someone who was bi but
lifebonded with only one sex and does that make him any less bi (this is an
opinon only question, of course, and asked out of curiousity, no one shoot
me yet, please <g> ) <crosses her fingers for Cen not seeing this, and
backs away very, very slowly. No quick movements now...> <wonders in an
abstract corner of her mind whether the Lilac Fairy will see fit to answer
this one...>
****************
A terrible ObMisty but one that's been angging at me for a while: Why
weren't the Companions given powers like the ones Firecats have; like the
shooting flames thingymabobbit?
****************
ObMisty: How do criminals get rehabilitated in Valdemar? I know that the
Heralds are judges, and can accept evidence of the mind (textevd Savil's
commment about 'Lendel's right to testify twith evidence from his mind) I
mean, I know that in one case Talia locked a man into that mind loop, but I
don't think that wasn't exactly *standard* procedure. Or Elspeth's killing
Orthallen by decalring him guilty of high treason. There aren't any prisons
in Valdemar, are there? So what do you do with the thieves and bandits
whose cases are too petty for the Heralds' attention (at least I think they
are, anyhow), and if the village judge basically just decides on the
equivalent of community service, what happens if this person is really
*dangerous*?

I wonder if they have a death penalty by arbitrary decision of the People.
****************
Oh, and one more ObMisty, to make up for not posting yesterday, and for all
the grief I probably cause Auntie Mel <looks guilty>: On p 26 of OBound,
Kethry mentions the Sixth Plane, which is for "very powerful creatures taht
aren't quite gods, but do seem kindly inclined toawrds humans" She calls
this Plane the "Empyreal Plane" And 'empyreal' is defines by my handy
dictionary (any of you know Handian?... ::wink:: *gryn*) as:
1.a. The highest reaches of heaven, believed by the ancients to be a realm
of pure fire or light. b. The abode of God and the angels; paradise.
2. The sky, celestial.

We know the Shin'a'in Goddess uses the leshy'a'kalenedral, and the
Avastars... I think that this is a reference to angels (::sigh:: No, I'm
most definitely *not* trying to revive the religion thing, but it really
*does* sound like it to me) and I wonder if this was how the Book of One
thing got started, and if She or any other God or Goddess uses those
residents...

Actualy, Keth goes on to say that they can't be coerced and respond only if
they feel like it. Who feels sorry for the wizard that tried to do that?
<weg>
****************
I think that's it for now, but I'll come with more food for thought, I hope.

And... <giving in to the enormous pressure of her curiousity and the list
of girls who seem to be doing it> uh, milady Purple Fee, may I have your
permission and blessings to join your fair bower? ::flinch:: Well, it
should be interesting, to say the least, anyway... ::smile::

'kay, TTFN! Regards, Kimberly.



------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 742
*********************************