MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 757

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Silver Griffon
	by Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
  2) Re: Nobility, Honor and Suicide
	by Jake <rynath-+AT+-webspan.net>
  3) Re: Heyla (assorted posts and a big hello!)
	by kirchfa-+AT+-azstarnet.com (Tam Lin)
  4) Strange Braid/Paternal-maternal/Veternarians/Suicide/BeingAnAuthor
	by Soljan-+AT+-aol.com
  5) Re: Don't Shoot!!! 
	by mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa)
  6) Re: Nobility, Honor and Suicide
	by Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
  7) Braid:Skif|Darkwind\Tylendel|Stef\Van\HUGS\StormBreaking\Gargoyles\
	by poisoniv-+AT+-sprynet.com
  8) Re: Heyla (assorted posts and a big hello!)
	by Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
  9) Starwolf/beat on Mat/Sterling Renfaire/"Battle Dawn"/Bye-bye!
	by Mat Timmerman <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
 10) Re: Braid:Skif|Darkwind\Tylendel|Stef\Van\HUGS\StormBreaking\Gargoyles\
	by Lynne Markova <lynne-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>
 11) Re:
	by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
 12) Re: LHM
	by Sean Talbot <ad074-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>
 13) Re: Tylendel vs. Vanyel and suic
	by Sean Talbot <ad074-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>
 14) Re: BeingAnAuthor
	by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
 15) Re: A Curse on Mat///////Also a question about Norse Mythology
	by Kintara-+AT+-aol.com
 16) Ecstasia/Van & Lendel
	by Caryn Babstock <carynb-+AT+-io.org>
 17) Re: The nature of evil
	by Sean Talbot <ad074-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>
 18) Re: S u i c i d e
	by Sean Talbot <ad074-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 15:39:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Silver Griffon
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.960808153404.5811A-100000-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>

On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Linda Malcor, Ph.D wrote:

> I almost didn't
> read SILVER GRIFFON when I realized there was so little in it about Skan.
> Oh, well, maybe I'm just funny that way.  What do the rest of you think?
> 
	Well, I hate to admit it, but I still haven't read Silver 
Gryphon. I've had the book for 8 months I think, and I'm just barely at 
the part where they leave for the assignment. I've never done that before 
in m,y life. I got through ordianry people faster than that. (well, 
that's probably because it was a school assignment) I actually do have a 
reason not to read it right now, I'm cleaning my room (WOW! It hasn't 
been clean for 3 years, stuff piled over 3 feet high throughtout the 
whole room, I'm not exaggerating any bit) and all my books are in boxes, 
waiting to be put back in the bookshelves in a neat and orderly faishon. 
Which sucks, because I really want to reread the Arrows books. Anyways, 
one of these days I really will read SG. Really. I will. :) :) <G>

                May the Light of the Emerald brighten your Path,
    ***********************************************************************
    *        Lady Becky, Goddess of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereals        *
    *Founder of the Association for the Preservation of Shiny Wax Turtles *
    *               Keeper of the Mailing List Homepage at:               *
    *              http://www.psnw.com/~deb/becky/misty.html              *
    ***********************************************************************


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 18:27:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jake <rynath-+AT+-webspan.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Nobility, Honor and Suicide
Message-ID: <199608082227.SAA25525-+AT+-orion.webspan.net>

>On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Master of Karma wrote:
>
>> This doesn't mean that suicide is good or ok, but 
>> it is sometimes called for and has the potential for being honorable and 
>> even noble.
>> 

And Becky replied:

>There is nothing noble or honorable about taking your own life. 
>It's a way of saying that you can't handle life anymore, and can't 
>struggle through your problems. It's the easy way out. The ultimate way 
>to end all of yor problems without having to solve them. It doesn't even 
>have the potential to be noble or honorable. That's a very dangerous 
>thing to say, you can give people the idea that they can solve all their 
>problems and maybe become noble and honorable by killing themselves. I'm 
>sure you really don't want people to think that, do you? 

No no.  I disagree.  Suicide is only "the act or an instance of
intentionally killing oneself." (The American Heritage Dictionary).  There
ARE ways in which a suicide can be BOTH honorable and noble. I can think of
several ways, a few that, to tell the truth, I would do myself.  Suiciding
for good, so to speak.

Perhaps the slitting of one's own wrist(s) in a moment of dark despair is.
But what about something like what the farmer did in "Cold-Drake"?
Knowingly giving up your life intentionally (suicide) for a greater good?
If we stretch it to today, jumping in front of the bullet, so to speak, to
prevent others from being harmed.  That's a suicide.

There's a story about a sinking ship in the 1940's, in which there were not
enough lifeboats, and several religious leaders (priest, rabbi, and others)
stayed on the ship and gave their places to others, knowing they would die.
That's a suicide, also.  

There's the fantasy archetype of the character that makes a self-sacrifice
so that the others can escape.  Is that as wretched and dishonorable as you
make suicide to be?  I don't think so. 

Beck, suicide CAN be noble and honorable.  I have to disagree with you.

Jake

-- 
O--------------------------------O  O-----------------------------------O
|  Jake Adamo / Rynath in Green  |  |   Misty Information FAQ Admin.    |
|       rynath-+AT+-webspan.net       |  |  God of Parody and Top Ten Lists  |
| http://www.webspan.net/~rynath |  | Avatar of Humor / Ladies in Green |
O--------------------------------O  O-----------------------------------O

"Cthulhu loves the little children / All the children of the world
Whether baked or boiled or fried / Or with cole slaw on the side
Cthulhu loves the little children of the world."


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 15:29:23 -0700 (MST)
From: kirchfa-+AT+-azstarnet.com (Tam Lin)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Heyla (assorted posts and a big hello!)
Message-ID: <199608082229.PAA05369-+AT+-web.azstarnet.com>

Heyla!

>Hi all!  I'm back.  Of course, I hardly expect anyone to remember poor
little StarWolf.
>But I'm finally back.  Am I welcome? <grin>

Don't think I've never met you, so, pleased to meetcha! *gryn*
<looks at the addy> Are you in Arizona?

<snip>

>Questions and thoughts:
>First an easy one - what does <weg> mean?  That's a new one on me.

Wide Evil Gryn, I think...or Wolfish Evil Gryn =D

<snip>

>Thrilled to be back! 
>StarWolf - being Tayledras I have no need to be Goddess of anything, but if
I had to be,
>I'd definitely want to be Goddess of Unusual Trivia or Goddess of Gadgetry.
Hmmm.

Hmmm, I think the former'd overlap my title of God of Useless Facts and
Miscellaneous
Information, but maybe not...::shrug::

Ack, another post means another
ObMisty: Or ObMistyList, at any rate...
Has anyone noticed that Misty listmembers seem to have a lot in common,
compared to some
mailing lists? That just struck me the other day...*gryn*

"I'm the original discriminating buffalo man
I'll do whats wrong as long as I can."
- The Incredible String Band, "The Minotaur's Song"


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   
|     Herald Michal Alderan Skysong, Chosen of Tyr       |
|    President of the VEVUWEC and member of the DDMF     |
|    God of Useless Facts and Irellevant Information     |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 18:37:59 -0400
From: Soljan-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Strange Braid/Paternal-maternal/Veternarians/Suicide/BeingAnAuthor
Message-ID: <960808183758_380370028-+AT+-emout12.mail.aol.com>

-----------RYLISSIA---------------------
In a message dated 96-08-08 09:00:50 EDT, you write:

Just so y'all don't injure yourselves, know that I was in pretty strange mood
when I typed this.

<< : Frankly, no. I'm not very paternal. It takes more than seed to make a
 father, love. Great goods gods, can you see me as a parent? I'd be awful. :
 
Well, as female I am definately not very paternal but I'm not maternal
either. I am sorry but I can not coo over babies and I do not do well with
children. I tried explaining why I don't want children to one of my good
friends, and after a very long discussion, she finished by saying, "At least
you know why you don't want children."
I know this sounds like some adolescent fascination fairytale to y'all, but I
would rather devote my life to helping animals because they need it a lot
more than the human race does (yes I will coo over snakes, frogs, and many
other distasteful-to some- creatures, though not insects.)

**I can do it with integrity, I can do it will disgrace...**

And I had to dissect a frog this year! (I lived. I'm going to have to dissect
a cat and probably a dog and horse too in veteranairy school). I'm hoping to
get into Cornell (29 graduates from Cornell have gotten Nobel Prizes...),
striving towards a Master's Degree and maybe even a PHD... I think I have a
good chance, I did a respectable job on the SAT's (through a special program.
No, it wasn't for my true score, I'm not a senior. It was from CTY, they
tracked down kids who did well in school and offered them to take the SAT's
early and see how they did, and I scored above the national average (1000)
for seniors though I was several grades below them (got 1050).
Sheka, I'm rambling/bragging again. Okay, I'll apologize.
SORRY ABOUT THAT!

ObMisty- hey, I don't think they had any cockroaches in Velgarth! Now where's
the fun in that? <WEG>

And a comforting thought-
Cockroaches will outlive the human race if we don't kill them all off (which
will be VERY hard to do)!

**Sorry I'm not home right now- walking into spiderwebs...**

On suicide...
I had this really, really awful dream once, that my mindset was different but
I was basically the same person with a lot worse life, and all I could think
of was "kill yourself, kill yourself," so finally I decided to do it by (now
this is pretty stupid) swallowing bleach and other "happy" (i tend to overuse
that word in a sarcastic sense) household chemical until for some bizarre
reason (dreams aren't realistic) my entire throat disolved including my
trachea... and then I kind of bled to death while running out of oxygen.

Sing and dance, lalalalala, hey lalalalalalala

I think the heat went to my head. It was somewhere in the 90's for the past
three days (that's hot for New York!) and considering us Rochestarians have a
5 month winter which normally has 120" of snow and temperatures below zero,
we're not used to it. And today we got a thunderstorm, so yesterday I was
lying around feeling dead and today I can't go play tennis though I could
probably swim in the street <G>.

Hey, Jake, OOC, I'm thinking of attempting to get a novel published, but I
have no idea where to start from, other than pointing out that I have a 105
(kinda short) page story typed out. Can you help, or are is your life already
to hectic? I'm sure I could find someone else to bother (bothering people is
one of my pastimes <G>), but I thought I'd ask.
Hmm... again with the suicide topic, braiding this into authors-among-us, my
character throws herself off a cliff at the end... (well it was either that
or take fifty arrows through the chest)... if you really have a lot of time
of your hands, then for pete's sake do something with it! Well, if you do,
you can ask for the details... I once spent forty minutes trying to explain
it to one of my friends.

>Anywho, Kero and Sayvil make a great team -- Savil (the Herald) was a lot
>like Kero, IMO. Anyone else?

Me! Me! They both have enough wit to please each other. Both are/were related
to (and Savil was one) a great mage. I think they're both really cool (Kero's
my fav. character).

Oh, ick, it's pouring again. And our half-a-tree is standing out there,
unprotected. (got rot down in the center and a windstorm during the last
thunderstorm snapped half of it off. So now we have a sorry looking half a
tree standing in our front yard).
"Well, could I have a tree lisence?"
"A what?"
"A tree lisence, for my pet tree Eric."
"A tree lisence?"
"Well, actually, he's an 'alf a tree."
"A what?"
"He had an accident!"
-Monty Python, The Bee Lisence sketch

>I Have a slight problem, my dad doesn't think there is a Mercedes Lackey!
>If anybody has proof for or against that, please post, PLEASE!
> He is a small time writer that thinks poeple shadow write for Her.

Considering she has pictures of herself in the back of her books, has won
awards, and so forth(I'm not the best person to ask about this), and I
believe she's gone to book-signings and such, we're all pretty sure that she
exists.
Oh, and do not post your father's adress here, he might get several angry
letters! <WEG>
Jus' kidding!

Zhai'helleva
-Lady Windshadow, Goddess of the Arts
Ydreen, Kanya, Syana, Mylahi
**Ladies do not start fights but they can finish them!**



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:11:51 -0700 (MST)
From: mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com (Lady 'Reesa)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Don't Shoot!!! 
Message-ID: <199608082311.QAA19766-+AT+-primenet.com>

Barbara, Heather's she'enedra wrote:  (Sorry, I cut the original attribution...)

  I'm straight, but kinky 
>-- oh, wait, we're not supposed to be talking about the sheep, right? 
> I'm trying to be a writer, although not as hard as I probably 
>should.  I did just submit a short-story for approval, so I'm holding 
>my breath.  

        Welcome to the list!  I can tell, you're my kind of person!  (She
said SHEEP people!  I love this woman already!)

>Well, to avoid this getting unnecessarily long, I'll stop here.  
>Looking forward to chatting with y'all in the future.

        <Ducking Heather's glares, books, etc.>  You live with Heather, and
you've seen some of her posts I assume?  And you're worried about your post
being *long*?  *grin*  Just wait until she and Cennydd get into a
fight..er...conversation!

>Barbara

'Reesa

_____Lady 'Reesa_____mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com_____
  " Where there is love, the form does not matter, and 
the gods are pleased.  What occurs in nature, comes 
by the hand of nature, and if the gods did not approve, 
it would not be there...There is no shame in loving."
^^^^^^^Moondance K'Treva^^^^^_Magic's Pawn_^^^^^^^^^^ 


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:25:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Nobility, Honor and Suicide
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.960808162105.6121A-100000-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>

On Fri, 9 Aug 1996, Jake wrote:

> >On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Master of Karma wrote:
> >> This doesn't mean that suicide is good or ok, but 
> >> it is sometimes called for and has the potential for being honorable and 
> >> even noble.
> >> 
> And Becky replied:
> 
> >There is nothing noble or honorable about taking your own life. 
> >It's a way of saying that you can't handle life anymore, and can't 
> >struggle through your problems. It's the easy way out. The ultimate way 
> >to end all of yor problems without having to solve them. It doesn't even 
> >have the potential to be noble or honorable. That's a very dangerous 
> >thing to say, you can give people the idea that they can solve all their 
> >problems and maybe become noble and honorable by killing themselves. I'm 
> >sure you really don't want people to think that, do you? 
> 
> Perhaps the slitting of one's own wrist(s) in a moment of dark despair is.
> But what about something like what the farmer did in "Cold-Drake"?
> Knowingly giving up your life intentionally (suicide) for a greater good?
> If we stretch it to today, jumping in front of the bullet, so to speak, to
> prevent others from being harmed.  That's a suicide.
> 
> Jake
	Okay, point well taken, I didn't even think of that. In those 
cases, yes it would be. That's probably what Cennyd was talking about 
anyway, now that I think more about it. But in those cases, you dont kill 
yourself, you allow yourself to die. The reason you die is not because 
you pull the trigger, or use the razor or whatever, it's because you 
prevent someone else from having to do that. I suppose that is 
technically what suicide is, but I always think of suicide as when you 
willingly and want to take your own life. 


                May the Light of the Emerald brighten your Path,
    ***********************************************************************
    *        Lady Becky, Goddess of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereals        *
    *Founder of the Association for the Preservation of Shiny Wax Turtles *
    *               Keeper of the Mailing List Homepage at:               *
    *              http://www.psnw.com/~deb/becky/misty.html              *
    ***********************************************************************


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:21:53 -0700
From: poisoniv-+AT+-sprynet.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid:Skif|Darkwind\Tylendel|Stef\Van\HUGS\StormBreaking\Gargoyles\
Message-ID: <199608082321.QAA20288-+AT+-m4.sprynet.com>

Lady 'Reesa had the gaul to say:

%% Forget Darkwind, forget Skif, I'll
%%take Kero any day...*grin*

(GAACK!! CHOOKE!!) Forget Skif?!?!? How dare you!?? Skif is my _favorite_ male 
character in all of Mistydom!!!! (I know, I know, she kinda killed him with the 
Elspeth episode, and pairing him with Nyara almost made me choke, but STILL!!!) 
Darkwind's pretty yummy though, but NO ONE IS A YUMMY AS SKIF. <wemg> Ok, nuff 
said. :)

The Lilac Fairy brought to our attention the fact that:

%%In regard to the discussion of Tylendel's character, it has occurred to the
%%Lilac Fairy that the Ladies of the Pink Wand have overlooked 'Lendel/Stefan
%%as on Object of Unrequited Love/Lust. Are there any votes to add him to our
%%Pantheon of Adorable but Unobtainable Gods of Unfulfilled Passion? 

I vote for Tylendel, DEFINITELY... not necessarily for Stef, but I'm sure that 
there are more than enough LOTPW out there to overrule me. (sigh, poor misguided 
souls...) :->

Becky Anne had the bal--err.. I mean guts to say:

%%I never really liked Van all that much (I have now donned my asbestos 
%%suit and I am hiding in a corner with my shield ready to fend off the 
%%flying missles and coconuts sure to be heading my way right now) I mean, 
%%I like him, but not that much.

Yaaaah! A girl after my own heart!

Sal Politely requested a hug and as such:

|	|	|	|	/------\	
|	|	|	|	|
|	|	|	|	|
|-------|	|	|	|     __
|	|	|	|	|     |	|
|	|	|	|	|	|
|	|	\_______/	\_______/

Linda Malcor tempted us all by saying:

%%And to make you all completely jealous, I have my hands on an advance copy
%%of STORM BREAKING (and, yes, I'm already halfway through it ;->).

(Commence Drooling) Where did you get it?

Antalayah asked:

%%Ok, anyone else out there besides me love the Gargoyles?

Gargoyles is the 2nd best cartoon out there after Batman and Robin <whenever 
they feel like putting out a new episode. Talk about frustrating>

Ok, and now for the ObMisty:

I think that Gala made a mistake in repudiating Tylendel.  She could (and 
should) and shaken him out of his fury and helped him destroy the monsters. He 
probably had enough strength too.  She was as selfish and shortsighted as he 
was, IMO. She promised when she Chose him to see him thru and love him thru 
everything, but she abandoned him when he needed her most. Just my opinion.

%%%Ivy%%%

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:57:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Heyla (assorted posts and a big hello!)
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.960808165328.6121B-100000-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>

On Fri, 9 Aug 1996, Tam Lin wrote:

> >First an easy one - what does <weg> mean?  That's a new one on me.
> 
> Wide Evil Gryn, I think...or Wolfish Evil Gryn =D
> 
	Actually, I think the original meaning was wicked evil grin. But 
of course, it could be anything you want it to be. Personally, I like 
Waterbuffalo Eat Grapefruit. :) 

P.S. I don't think WEG. :) :) Hee hee! I'm in a silly mood today. :)

                May the Light of the Emerald brighten your Path,
    ***********************************************************************
    *        Lady Becky, Goddess of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereals        *
    *Founder of the Association for the Preservation of Shiny Wax Turtles *
    *               Keeper of the Mailing List Homepage at:               *
    *              http://www.psnw.com/~deb/becky/misty.html              *
    ***********************************************************************


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 19:48:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mat Timmerman <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Starwolf/beat on Mat/Sterling Renfaire/"Battle Dawn"/Bye-bye!
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.960808192759.10100A-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

> From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com
> 
> Hi all!  I'm back.  Of course, I hardly expect anyone to remember poor 
> little StarWolf.
> But I'm finally back.  Am I welcome? <grin>

I remember you Wolfie!  ;)  I'd wondered where you'd disappeared to.  Of
course you're welcome!

> First an easy one - what does <weg> mean?  That's a new one on me.

Wicked, evil grin  <weg>
> 
> Second, who's Jake?  (I LURVED the game by the way!  I may even make 
> one up someday!)

Jake joined up around the time you disappeared.

Oh, and Wolfie, please watch your line lengths -- you're wrapping.

=========================================================================
> From: Lady 'Reesa <mrtmh-+AT+-primenet.com>
>         Mat, you're a party-pooper.  But we love you anyway.  All my
> personalities.  It's just not fair though.  I mean, you get to lust after
> these guys and know that if you ever actually met them, you'd have a shot!
> *pout*  It's not fair!  I never find any straight women to lust after in
> books.  Except Kero.  Jake, I agree.  Forget Darkwind, forget Skif, I'll
> take Kero any day...*grin*  (Look!  Another morally unsound post!  Quick!
> Hide the kids!  *grin*)

Hehehe.  Besides, Lilac Fairy makes sense about the relationship thing, so
I withdraw my objection.  Maybe the objection was just so I could keep
them to myself....  :)

> Oh, icky, spoilers!  *g*  Well, it was bound to happen. . .:)  I agree with
> both of you, by the way.  And who says that threesomes are a bad thing, too?
>  I mean look at Aaron, Darvish and Chandra.  They're obviously going to have
> to work something out (and if dear Ms.Tanya Huff would write a sequel, we'd
> be able to see that. . .<smiles sweetly>)  And I haven't even read Storm
> Rising yet--I know sacrilidge!  *grin* 
> 
>         *laugh*  I was invited by the woman who runs the Tanya Huff fan club
> _Nine Above_, to try and meet her at a Con once and talk some sense into Ms.
> Huff.  A'course, it was all wishful thinking, since I happened to be living
> in Hawaii at that point.  Still, it was nice to know that I wasn't the only
> one who wanted MORE AARON!  

I want a sequel too!!!!!  Waaaaa!!!!!

============================================================================
> From: Jenna Wilson <jenna-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU>
> > Oh,  this weekend Windshadow and I are probably going to the 
> > Renaissance Fair this weekend in Sterling NY.  

> I'm supposed to be going the weekend after next!  I wish our timing 
> was better, we could meet!  I have money too, I just got paid!!!  
> Let's get together a Renn Faire expedition!  Everyone in the area, 
> all going up on the same weekend! :)

Gee, I'm probably going on the weekend of the 27th!  (I'm going to be in
Florida this weekend and next, and the 27th weekend is the last weekend.)

============================================================================
> From: Barbara Slater <SLATERB-+AT+-smtpgw2.musc.edu>

> BTW, since you seem to have a cunning ear...I could swear that on
> the "Lovers, Lore, and Loss" CD from Firebird, in "Battle Dawn" I
> seem to hear a line that goes "With Talia tortured, killed and died
> revealed to them this day," which doesn't agree with the line in the
> songbook!  What do ~you~ hear in the song?

The line goes:
"With how you tortured, killed, and lied, revealed to them this day,"

How about the line that goes:
"For hell, Kris, and my Queen's Own, I swear that you will pay."

Why, "for hell" ???

============================================================================
> Lady Nightshadow wrote:

Hmm.  I missed this somehow, so I had to hijack this from one of Alex's
posts.

> > I liked Tylendel. He was sweeter, innocenter (is that a word? It is now I
> > guess <g>), and cuter in my mind. He seemed easier to reach somehow. Van was
> > too, too, oh what's the word, hard to reach? Too serious? Not fun-loving
> > enough? That sounds right. Van was like Mat (<g>) just an ol'
> > stick-in-the-mud.
> 

Oh, thanks Shady, not you too!  Ok, now I need to go into hiding. 
Lady Jag (welcome pack!!!!), I formally return the mantle of leadership
of the Cat People to you.  [bows deeply]  Oh, and I present to you, 
a new member of our little fur-filed group, Kintara!  

Goodbye all, I will return anon.

[ don't worry, I'm not really mad.  I'm just going on vacation tomorrow,
so I'm going on postpone.  I should be back on the 19th or 20th ]

Zhai'helleva all!

Mat
Cat Person, Adept, and           |"Each man builds his own garden, by what
God of Procrastination           | his heart says is true. And mine is so
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu       | very special to me, but it seems I can
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| share it with you." - Heather Alexander



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:51:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lynne Markova <lynne-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Braid:Skif|Darkwind\Tylendel|Stef\Van\HUGS\StormBreaking\Gargoyles\
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.94.960808164812.28394A-100000-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>



On Fri, 9 Aug 1996 poisoniv-+AT+-sprynet.com wrote:

> 
> Ok, and now for the ObMisty:
> 
> I think that Gala made a mistake in repudiating Tylendel.  She could (and 
> should) and shaken him out of his fury and helped him destroy the monsters. He 
> probably had enough strength too.  She was as selfish and shortsighted as he 
> was, IMO. She promised when she Chose him to see him thru and love him thru 
> everything, but she abandoned him when he needed her most. Just my opinion.
> 
> %%%Ivy%%%
> 
Good question!  Just where *was* Gala, when Tylendel was freaking out?
IIRC, Gwena came and got Talia, when Elspeth was in danger - so why didn't
Gala sense how close to the edge Tylendel was, and go get Savil?  After
all, if 'Lendel could actually *verbalize* his thoughts to Vanyel,
wouldn't Gala have picked up on them, too?  And what did she expect to
Tylendel to do, after she repudiated him, and suicided?

Lady Sophia, trilling away
Goddess of Music and Song


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:14:26 -0700
From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <199608090014.RAA29877-+AT+-latimes.com>

>Linda Malcor tempted us all by saying:
>
>%%And to make you all completely jealous, I have my hands on an advance copy
>%%of STORM BREAKING (and, yes, I'm already halfway through it ;->).
>
>(Commence Drooling) Where did you get it?

My husband is a Systems Architect for the L.A. Times.  He spends a lot of
time in the Editorial Library, and one of his friends in Database
Construction had a friend in the Book Review section across the hall, so
when the Times was done reviewing the book the copy just happened to walk
away from the reviewer and over into my husband's possession . . . ;->.
Just goes to show that it never hurts to let other people know about your
obsessions ;->.

Danya


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:44:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sean Talbot <ad074-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: LHM
Message-ID: <199608082044.AA03291-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>

NaClare-+AT+-aol.com writes:
> 
> Heeeeeeeeeeeey Here's an ObMisty-
>       I figure that there is one RIGHT that belongs to everyone, is the right
> to die. It is not an evil if you commit suicide, but it a way out. One I
> don't like because if anybody discovers the fact, they have to spend a couple
> hours talking the person out of it. 
That may be a right a person thinks but in our society suicide is wrong 
even Dr. assisted suicides.

>        Is Lendel lost his twin, it's kind of a mind-mate thing, he would feel
> his brothers death and the loss of that mind, I suppose its kind of hard. Now
> if Lendel had a better grip on things when his brother died, I don't think he
> would have gone insane with grief or loss, just because he lost his reasoning
> he was evil, he was just confounded.
How can that be true he endangered innocents who had nothing to do with 
his brothers death.  I believe he became evil since he killed innocents 
of the Leshara or at least tryed to.  I'm not going to continue on with 
this since I don't really know to much more about this subject.  Many 
people have different opinions so maybee they just don't have similar 
minds aobut each subject.

> 
> 
> "Life without Pain is Real"
> "How can you say That"
> "Because I know the Truth, and the Truth Hurts"
> Macross Plus, ep. 3
> 
> Andrew /Miskar
> 

Sean

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:34:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sean Talbot <ad074-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Tylendel vs. Vanyel and suic
Message-ID: <199608082034.AA02540-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>

Tammy Harris writes:
> 
> My goodness, I must have a lot of time on my hands!  I've posted more 
> today than I usually do in a week!
> 
> Sean wrote:
> 
> > Tammy Harris writes:
> > > 
> > > Savil took 'Lendel to the breaking point in order to diffuse his 
> > > anger and rage over the situation.  She was concerned that he might 
> > > attack her, but *he never did*!!  Her concern that he might have is 
> > > not evidence against him, at least IMO.
> >
> > True but would she not have had to if he had the ability to control his 
> > own emotions and did not have the trauma.
> 
> So are you saying that not being able to control ones emotions is 
> **evil**??  (I'm not quite sure if you mean she wouldn't have had to 
> diffuse his emotions or she wouldn't have had to worry if he'd had 
> the ability to control.....)  The point of her trying to diffuse them 
> was (partly) to teach him how to control those emotions.
I'm not saying it is evil just the way he handled it could have been 
better.  What I was saying was that his trauma prevented him from 
controlling his own emotions so when Staven was murdered he went insane.

> 
> > > But I don't really see how this is evil.  Okay, it was wrong to have 
> > > blind faith in Staven and not to think of Vanyel, but *evil*?  I 
> > > think that's way too strong a word.
> 
> > Maybee it is too strong a word but still it serves the point that he 
> > couldn't see the truth to what his twin was doing or even how badly he 
> > was treating his own lifebonded and his feelings.
> 
> I don't know about this one.  He was blind and misguided about his 
> twin and his own behavior towards Van.  But we all have areas in 
> which we don't see clearly.  The more emotionally involved we are, 
> the less clearly we see.  This is part of being human, unfortunately. 
> It was a flaw, certainly, but *to me*, calling him evil for it is 
> like calling me evil because I'm stubborn. <grin>
> 
> > > On the other hand, I have to agree with Cennydd.  Unleashing the 
> > > wyrsa pack among many innocent people *was* evil.  His anguish, 
> > > grief, anger, and hatred pushed him over the edge into insanity and 
> > > he became evil.  While I agree with you, Sean, that Tylendel was evil 
> > > by the end, I don't think he was throughout his life.
> 
> > Now that is completely true he wasn't evil always just misguided.  Is 
> > that what you mean. 
> 
> Basically, yes.  But I *do* think his actions were evil.  I 
> understand his reason, but killing many innocent people is still 
> evil in my book.
Did he kill that many innocents.  There was only one kill before Gala 
took on the entire pack be herself
 
> > But he seemed a great deal like Van because he really had 
> > nothing to live for at one point.  The only difference is that Lendel was 
> > never completey alone he always had someone there for him.
> 
> By the time Van actually tried to kill himself, he wasn't alone, 
> either.  He'd already bonded to Yfandes.
THat really didn't matter.  Somebody said about that to Tylendel but if 
lendel could have used Van as a backing board for his emotions.  Wouldn't 
that also mean since he didn't that Van may not have been able to use 
Yfandes the same way.  He was still so filled with grief and he had some 
of the same values Lendel did.  Maybe he would have went revenge minded 
as well.

> 
> > He should have been able to cope with the fact his brother was dead when 
> > he had both Gala and Vanyel so he should have been able to stop his 
> > revenge filled mind and find a better way to put the Leshara down.
> 
> I agree completely.  Tylendel's inability to deal with his anguish, 
> rage, and grief regarding his brother was his fatal flaw and the 
> cause of his death.  Of course, no flaw, no death, no Vanyel 
> Demonsbane, last of the Herald-Mages.  And that's what makes the 
> story so tragic.
> 
> Okay, I'll stop now.  It's safe to come out. <g>  
> 
> Tammy
> 
> 
> "It's time to ask yourself what you believe"
> 

I liked your last comment on the subject.  It was really good.

Aistes Healer of the Good.



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 17:23:32 -0700
From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: BeingAnAuthor
Message-ID: <199608090023.RAA00100-+AT+-latimes.com>

>Hey, Jake, OOC, I'm thinking of attempting to get a novel published, but I
>have no idea where to start from, other than pointing out that I have a 105
>(kinda short) page story typed out. Can you help, or are is your life already
>to hectic? I'm sure I could find someone else to bother (bothering people is
>one of my pastimes <G>), but I thought I'd ask.

Go to your local bookstore and pick up the most recent copy of WRITER'S
MARKET (It's a book that tells you everything you need to know about MS
preparation, submission and where to send your work.).  105 pp. is too short
for a novel and too long for a short story--you'll need to do a bit of
trimming or adding to get that published.  

Also, I run an online writers' group, Scriptorium 101 (S101 for short).
Lot's of QO people in it, but we take others as well.  We take fiction and
nonfiction writing and discuss everything from how to get ideas to how to
figure out your taxes as a free-lancer.  Talyah's in it, if you need a
reference.  Contact me privately if you're interested.  

Danya


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 21:08:59 -0400
From: Kintara-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: A Curse on Mat///////Also a question about Norse Mythology
Message-ID: <960808210859_174611810-+AT+-emout10.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 96-08-08 07:04:49 EDT, you write:

<< Okay, here goes.  Remember that Loki is a shape-changing person.  He has 
 had several mates, of various species.  He is the father of Hel, the 
 midgard serpent, Fenris Wolf, and Slepneir (Odin's horse).  Hel was Loki 
 and a giantess, and Slepneir was loki and a horse.  I don't remember the 
 correct names of either of these, and I don't recall the things or people 
 he mated with for Fenris wolf or the midgard serpent.  And why do you 
 think of Hel as a horrible person?  She is a simple shadow-lover, she 
 cared for those that died not in battle.  And Slepneir is Odin's faithful 
 steed, a beautiful, and fast creature, who happens to ahve extra legs.  
 And Fenris Wolf is a fierce beast, but the other gods trick him and chain 
 him to a tree.  The serpent?  Well there is cause for argument that he is 
 holding up Ysgdrasil.
  >>
Well, the wolf and the serpent's mother was the same as Hel's mother.  Well,
that wasn't the way it was in the books I've studied in that Hel was horrible
and even evil.  She was horribly vain even though the bottom half of her body
was that of a decaying dead person.  Sleipnir I love he was a wonderful horse
and I never said he was horrible the only reason I called the serpent, Hel,
and Fenris.  Is because that is what in the legends that I read they were,
but everybody nows legends differ from the books you read them in.  Like
Greek Mythology in some Athena was just as bad as Ares  the God of War but in
others, the ones I prefer, she was wonderful and merciful and they looked not
only upon her as Goddess of War but as Goddess of Wisdom, I mean even Athens
was named  after her.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 21:26:34 -0400
From: Caryn Babstock <carynb-+AT+-io.org>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Ecstasia/Van & Lendel
Message-ID: <199608090126.VAA13221-+AT+-io.org>

At 19:11 08/08/96 +0100, Heather wrote:
>Don't MAKE me post about Swordspoint again.  Get out there and read it.
>It ought to be required reading for the LotPW -- along with Ecstasia,
>which no one will listen to me and read, goshdarnit.  What about Paulo?
>Isn't he GOOD ENOUGH for you people???  Rafe probably doesn't fit the
>criteria, since he's a straight guy who just happens to be crazy in love
>with Paulo.

Hey, I've read Ecstasia, and I've gotta admit I really liked it (Not as much
as Swordpoint, but that's beside the point).  In case anyone's wondering, it
was written by Francesca Lia Block, and you'll usually find it in the
_Literature_ section of the bookstore rather than the _SF_ section.  Don't
ask me why - it's published by Roc, which is an SF imprint.  One of the
mysteries of bookstores.  At least, that's the only place I've ever seen it,
and I spend a _lot_ of time in bookstores.  

In another post the same day, Heather also wrote:
>    Now, Stef was experienced, but so was Tylendel, and he had a year
>with his lifebonded in which to experiment. 

A year with his lifebonded?  I'd always thought that they only had a few of
months together.  They first got together on a hot summer night (.. would
you offer your throat..  (sorry, I couldn't resist) :-) ), and Tylendel died
at Sovven, which as Jake just pointed out, is at the end of October.  So, I
figured they had about three months, four months tops, together.  What made
you think it was longer than this?

Caryn
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Caryn Babstock			| "And if I shed a tear I won't cage it,
carynb-+AT+-io.org			|  I won't fear love
http://www.io.org/~carynb	|  And if I feel a rage I won't deny it,
				|  I won't fear love"      - S. McLachlan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 21:52:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sean Talbot <ad074-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: The nature of evil
Message-ID: <199608090152.AA21668-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>

> First of all, Tylendel was insane and broken and didn't truly 
> understand the consequences of his actions.  He wanted to hurt these 
> people for killing his twin.  It's not unlike when a child in the 
> playground is pushed down by a bully and skins his knee.  The child 
> wants to push the bully back.  Now, if the child does this, he may 
> hurt his bully, but we don't even think that this might be evil.  
> Tylendel was thinking along those same lines -- he wanted to hurt the 
> bully.  It's just that Tylendel happened to have phenomenal cosmic 
> power that most young children don't posses.  
But really is that nay reason for him to kill the innocents that had done 
nothing to him?

> Tylendel was doing everything in his power to hurt those who had hurt 
> him.  It just happened that Tylendel's power included the ability to 
> call Wyrsa.  He wasn't thinking clearly enough to know what that 
> meant.  That doesn't make him evil.  Yes, it was an evil act, but 
> that _doesn't make him an evil person_.  Tylendel was no more evil 
> when he died than he was while he lived.
I disagree if he had thought of others he would have realized what he did 
was wrong.  He was selfish and even a bit evil since he himself knew the 
possible consequences but chose not to use his knowledge.  He decided for 
revenge which in my opinion one of the worst things he could have done 
for himself and Vanyel.

> 
> If he had really been evil when he died, would the companions have 
> tolled the bell for him?  And the companions would know.
But they said if the circumstances had been different then he would have 
been a good herald.  It was his trauma which kept him from making due 
with what he had.

> 
> Barbara
> 
> 
> magik-+AT+-socketis.net
>        "Truth is what sounds right,
>             Beauty is what looks right:
>                Beware symetry."
> 

Aistes Healer of the Good



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 21:57:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sean Talbot <ad074-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: S u i c i d e
Message-ID: <199608090157.AA22122-+AT+-freenet.durham.org>

Lord Donald writes:
> 
> Heyla!
> 
> >Herald Michal 
> 
> That's me! *gryn*
> 
> >writes:
> 
> >> 
> >> Heyla!
> >> 
> >> <snip>
> >> 
> >>>>Oh Boy, I usually don't get involved in discussions, but I just gotta 
> >>>>speak up!  Please tell me that you don't mean that someone is EVIL 
> >>>>because they have contimplated suicide.  
> >>>
> >>>Hear hear!  I sure hope not. *grin* 
> >>>
> >>>Perhaps he is confusing sin with evil, here.  Suicide can be seen as a sin,
> >>>perhaps, under a certain point of view, but, then again, so are other things
> >>>which a lot of people don't consider sinful, if they believe in the concept
> >>>of sin at all. 
> >>
> >>Most "major" religions accept malicide, the killing of evildoers...
> >>Most "major" religions do *not* accept suicide...
> >>But if the act of suicide, or even the contemplation of suicide is a sin, then
> >>isn't suicide by definition also malicide?
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >That was the points I was trying to make when I brought it up.  That 
> >started up the argument.  I just said Tylendel was more evil and couldn't 
> >word my words right so it started this thing up.
> >
> >Sean
> 
> I hope I wasn't coming across in my post as saying I thought suicide was
> 'evil'...
> The idea of suicide being a sin, well, it doesn't make any sense to me (although
> I can see why religions would preach that it was...). I was trying to point
> out the (IMO) hypocrisy of those rules (such as it was).
> Huh...I wonder just how long it's been since I posted on topic...sorry
> everyone...
No you don't understand what I was saying.  The reason I posted that 
message was in the right idea but the wrong context.  When I wrote the 
original message.  I was saying that I was trying to make the same point 
that you were and when I said it I couldn't put the words in the right 
phrases.

Aistes Healer of the Good



------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 757
*********************************