MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 842

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) re groetjes
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
  2) Taylendras marriage customs <was re: Spoiler>
	by catwoman <catwoman-+AT+-inreach.com>
  3) Re: Daren
	by catwoman <catwoman-+AT+-inreach.com>
  4) Re: I bought S&S3 when it first came out, too. Have got all the
	by catwoman <catwoman-+AT+-inreach.com>
  5) Re: What Valdemar needs is .....
	by Disney <JES001-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
  6) SB Spoilers Ho!!!!!!!!!!
	by Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
  7) wilk kyree/ IIPTNIG/What Valdemar needs...
	by Soljan-+AT+-aol.com
  8) Re: SB Spoilers/Iftel
	by Sean <herewiss-+AT+-leland.stanford.edu>
  9) Grail (sorry <g>) /SB Spoilers -- Mindspeaking & end of SR&SB
	by Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
 10) Braid 'n' Brvaes On Campaign
	by Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
 11) Re: I bought S&S3/SPOILER/What Valdemar needs
	by ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com
 12) Re: SB Spoilers/Iftel
	by Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
 13) Re: SB Spoilers Ho!!!!!!!!!!
	by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
 14) Re: re groetjes
	by Katherine M Brielmaier <Katherine.M.Brielmaier-1-+AT+-tc.umn.edu>
 15) what valdemar needs
	by em <Emily_Marso-+AT+-brown.edu>
 16) Reply to: Re: Tannim
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
 17) Tayledras feather-trading customs
	by kcovert-+AT+-wvnvm.wvnet.edu (Kathy Covert)
 18) Tayledras marriage customs
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:14:06 -0400
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: re groetjes
Message-ID: <199609241514_MC1-9AD-7CCB-+AT+-compuserve.com>

jerry wanted to know (to save everyone from mad penguins and killer goblins)
They are *not* cookies!

groetjes is dutch for "greetings" or "give my best to" depending on conotation
it's like ciao -> multi-purpose word

pronounced as "gargle- rolled r- oo (as in boot) chuhs". not to be confused
with "groentjes" which is dutch for little vegetables :)

For Esmeralda:
Dag Debbi, gaat het een beetje? Ik heb gehoord dat het heel koud daar is. Echt
acht graden?!? Hier is het nog steeds dertig!

re Karsite language. I thought some character wondered how the Karsites could
have such a beautiful language and be so barbaric, and then in SR Karal
corrects somebody in the Compass rose saying the gutterals are like hoarse
breathing and not gargling -> when is hoarse breathing considered beautiful?!
(don't say it, I know, keep your filthy thoughts to yourselves!)

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:26:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: catwoman <catwoman-+AT+-inreach.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Taylendras marriage customs <was re: Spoiler>
Message-ID: <199609241926.MAA10851-+AT+-inreach.com>

At 22:29 9/23/96 +0100, you wrote:

>   Someone refresh my memory: what are the marriage customs of the
>Tayledras?  I assume they have some form of marriage, since I don't know
>of any human civilization that doesn't.  Do we know anything about them?
>Starwind and Moonsong always refered to themselves as lifebonded, not
>married.  Is a lifebond just considered more important than a marriage?
>Were they not married?  Is marriage reserved for couples who intend to
>produce children?

Elspeth and Darkwind marry in...oh shoot...the last Winds book, right? IIRC,
(me-+AT+-boyfriend's house, book-+AT+-my house) Darkwind had one of Vree's primary
feathers all beaded up, and he offered it to Elspeth in "the traditional
way" or something along that line.

BUT, we don't know if Elspeth and Darkwind are lifebonded. <we can't seem to
agree anyways> So..who knows? According to the Winds book, then yes, the
Taylendras do have a marriage ceremony.

What I want to see is the handfasting ceremony that they have in Valdemar. I
wonder if its anything like the Wiccan handfasting..

Blessed be,

-Cat\/\/oman
catwoman-+AT+-inreach.com
Lady In Green
Cat Person
Lady of the Pink Wand
Goddess of the Impatient
and *still* (as always) looking for a spiffy sig..



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:30:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: catwoman <catwoman-+AT+-inreach.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Daren
Message-ID: <199609241930.MAA11188-+AT+-inreach.com>

At 22:31 9/23/96 +0100, you wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Charles Stevens wrote:
>> I'm new here, but I do know that's not quite right.  Daren is a prince...
>> of Rethwallen.  
>	Well, he *was* a prince of Rethwallen, have you read Arrow's Fall 
>yet? If you haven't, then I don't want to spoil it for you, go out and 
>read it, at the end, he is no longer the prince of Rethwellan, he is 
>indeed co-consort to Selenay.

Wrong book, my Lady. :) Easy mistake, it was at the end of By The Sword that
Daren and Selenay lifebonded and were married shortly after. At the
beginning of the Winds trilogy <i always mix up the titles of that series
for some odd reason> it is mentioned that they had twin children, who become
the Heirs apparent after Elspeth renounced her claim. 

The end of Arrow's Fall is where Talia and Dirk marry. I wish they would
have gone into that ceremony more, also. I mean, we hear about how you're
supposed to get handfasted first, then marry, but we've never SEEN the
actual ceremony! We hear about it, like during Talia's circut with Kris,
where they married the couple who had already been handfasted, but we've
never seen the actual ceremony performed. Plus,  Talia and Dirk never
handfasted first. 

Confusing!

Blessed be,

-Cat\/\/oman
catwoman-+AT+-inreach.com
Lady In Green
Cat Person
Lady of the Pink Wand
Goddess of the Impatient
and *still* (as always) looking for a spiffy sig..



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:39:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: catwoman <catwoman-+AT+-inreach.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: I bought S&S3 when it first came out, too. Have got all the
Message-ID: <199609241939.MAA11860-+AT+-inreach.com>

At 13:28 9/24/96 +0100, you wrote:
<snip snip snip>

> Dumb Question time...<drumroll, please...>Did Misty
>co-author "If I Pay Thee Not In Gold" with Piers Anthony? I don't have the
book, and am
>not near a library so that I can check out the catalogue.

Yes, she did! I have it, and I'm reading it through for the second time. I
can really tell which parts Misty wrote and which parts Piers Anthony wrote.
I mean, with a character name like Xylina, gee, I wonder who came up with
*that* name?!

Its a pretty good book, once you get through all of Piers's writing quirks.
After reading that book, I remembered why I stopped reading his books. At
least Misty is somewhat believeable. Piers however...<shrug> not my kind of
thing, I'll stick with Misty. :)

Blessed be,

-Cat\/\/oman
catwoman-+AT+-inreach.com
Lady In Green
Cat Person
Lady of the Pink Wand
Goddess of the Impatient
and *still* (as always) looking for a spiffy sig..



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:40:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: Disney <JES001-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: What Valdemar needs is .....
Message-ID: <01I9UZLP0JMQ000T12-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>


ok, this is a one liner, but i'm late for class and I have this nasty
habit of forgetting to write people if I don't respond right away..

about the slums thing...Yes, we know about the 'slums' because in
Arrow's Flight, didn't Talia reflect on how Skif wouldn't ever take her to
the side of town that he was from?  Kinda made me think it was dangerout
(kinda like Memphis on a bad day--sorry to any Memphis-ites :>)

Gotta split for class!
Jennie 
"Disneyworld"
worshipper of The Mouse








------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:53:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: SB Spoilers Ho!!!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.960924152854.29963B-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>


***********************Storm Breaking Spoilers Below**********************





















> From: undine <stafford-+AT+-iac.net>

> Has anyone figured out why their are snakes and what appears to be a 
> giant squid on the cover of SB? I usually like Jody Lee's artwork 
> (lavender-eyed companions not withstanding) but this one is *gags*
> If she's not careful, she'll make Larry's artwork look *cringes* good.

You know, a couple of his pictures in this book actually look okay.  
Like the one with Firesong and An'desha.  In fact, An'desha is the only
picture I remember liking from SR too.

Hey, I think we've got the snake lady back on this cover! <g>  Well, not
really, but right above the title, there's a lady with scales on her face.

About the cover in general.  What the heck happened to Karal!?!?  Purple
robes???  And since when does he have long, partially braided hair?
And someone mentioned the vampire skull.  Yeah, it looks like it's
spitting something (on the front, it looks like it's spitting at Karal).

============================================================================
> From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>

> Don't have the squid on my copy, but I'm guessing the snakes are a reference
> to shamanistic magic ("real" magic represented by the symbols around Karal's
> head, and Karal representing priestly magic--the three types of magic
> focused on in the book.

What shamanistic magic is really used?  Or preistly for that matter?

> The work feels padded, and the end feels like a summation of notes.  All
> that adds up to simply bad writing.  Sheesh!  I want to follow Silverfox and
> Firesong to their new home!  I want to follow Karal to Iftel!  I want
> Darkwind and Elspeth to do something besides chase each other down a couple
> of hallways (I don't think I've read so completely flat of a description of
> two such dynamic characters in my life!)!

Speaking of Iftel, was that a bit of a letdown for anyone else?  I mean,
we're all wondering for so long what's up there, and what do we get?
White Gryphon/k'Leysha, but subsititute Karsites for Kaled'a'in, and mix
and match the other non-humans.  Sheesh.


=============================================================================
> From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>

> >I'm also betting that Owlflight will focus on Firesong and Karal...
> 
> One hopes.  But then why is the book listed in the lower corner of the chart
> rather than in its timeline position the way all the other forthcoming
> Valdemar books have been listed?

I think it's just missing from your copy Danya.  In mine, Owlflight is
listed after SB, but separate, like BTS used to be, before she started
calling it "Kerowyn's Tale".

==============================================================================
> From: catwoman <catwoman-+AT+-inreach.com>
> 
> I wanted her to bring Tarma back again! She was there in the beginning, she
> said something to Karal about being taught well by someone from her Clan
> <don't have my book, its with another Mistymaniac who can't afford to buy
> it, so I decided to be generous. :)..>, as he had set everything that could
> be used as a weapon by his bed. I really wanted her to pursue the Tarma as
> leshya'e Kal'enedral thing...I saw that and I jumped off the couch yelling
> "YES! Tarma's back!!" and my boyfriend and another friend of mine looked at
> me very oddly, like "what the heck is wrong with her??" 

Yeah, I was cheering too (though not verbally <g>). Then she just walks
out, and when Karal asks about her, the shaman essentialy shrugs.  Grrrr.

============================================================================
> From: Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-BAYLOR.EDU

> Hmmm.  This brings up something that has been niggling at the back of my 
> brain.  Did anyone else get the feeling that the Storm books would be
> the last we'd see of Velgarth?  I think the apocalyptic nature of the
> Cataclysm was over-emphasized, because, for the longest time, I had the
> dreadful feeling of "this is It."  Once I managed to clear that
> preconception away, I didn't feel frustrated or cheated at the end of
> Storm Breaking at all.  I just had the  feeling that Misty was leaving
> her options open for Owlflight.

I got that feeling too.  If not for the note of Owlflight, I'd have been
worried.  There was a kind of "and they all lived happily ever after"
feeling to the last scene, despite the loose threads.  Kind of, "Firesong
and Silverfox romp happily at k'Leysha, Karal goes home to Natoli, and
An'desha is finally accepted by his people."  Bleh.  And I definitely
think that the Final Storm scene was too rushed.  I mean, all of a sudden,
it's there, then, suddenly, there's too much power for the Pit to contain,
and boom, it's over.  Firesong's scarred, Need's dead, Florian's dead, and
Karal's blind.  Grrr.

That reminds me.  Who else is frustrated by the off hand way that Need was
gotten rid of?  This is a character who's been around in some form or
another since S&SIII, and poof, she's gone now.

Danya?  Two things.  What made you think of Florian as an Avatar-type, and
where did Van recognize him?


Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,   |"To see them all 'adrowning, as they
Adept, and God of Procrastination| tried to swim ashore.  (Doesn't help
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu       | when you shoot at 'em.)  Sailing down 
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| along the coast of High Barbary!"      
                                 |  "High Barbary" - Heather Alexander


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:55:09 -0400
From: Soljan-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: wilk kyree/ IIPTNIG/What Valdemar needs...
Message-ID: <960924155508_292244448-+AT+-emout09.mail.aol.com>

Mat says:
<< Oh the horror!  Being chased by kyree MindSinging "Herald's Creed" at you!
 Or "FAP"!  Or "Mis-Conceptions"!  Run away! (I finally saw MP and the Holy
 Grail this weekend. <g> ) >>
  LOL!! You finally saw it!  Yeah for Mat!  How about wild kyree singing the
_Camelot_ song?  I have the words to that if anyone's interested,  they're
kinda mumbled in the movie.  Mat,  see what you've done,  I'm going to be
quoting Python for days!

Mat writes:
>>> Dumb Question time...<drumroll,please...>Did Misty co-author "If I Pay
> Thee Not In Gold" with Piers Anthony? I don't have the book, and am
> not near a library so that I can check out the catalogue.

<Yup.  IIRC, he had the story outline laying around, but he didn't have
time to read it.  So the people at Baen looked around for someone to write
the thing out.  They got Misty to do it.  So, he did the plot and story,
Misty did the grunt work of the actual writing.<
  That sounds right.  He added some things,  but it's mostly hers.  It's
actually pretty good.  I liked it.  Whenever I see that title I think it says
Ip-ting.  I don't know what that's supposed to be but...  


Hmmm.  Valdemar needs more descriptions about everyday life.  The regular
people,  the food,  the houses,  the markets,  the jobs,  the family life.
 Almost all the social aspects of Haven are missing except the religion,  and
that isn't really there either.  The Tayledras ways of all that have been
explained,  why not the city life?  

Lady Silvermoon
LIG,  Leader of the DDMF,  Goddess of Sensitivity
and Firecat,  Cat Person
"Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:51:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sean <herewiss-+AT+-leland.stanford.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: SB Spoilers/Iftel
Message-ID: <199609242051.NAA28857-+AT+-popserver4.Stanford.EDU>


>Speaking of Iftel, was that a bit of a letdown for anyone else?  I mean,
>we're all wondering for so long what's up there, and what do we get?
>White Gryphon/k'Leysha, but subsititute Karsites for Kaled'a'in, and mix
>and match the other non-humans.  Sheesh.
>

I was very annoyed about the explanation of Iftel!  Here I was expecting
this mysterious deity that protected this little country and it turns out
that it is just Vikandis!  I also couldn't figure out why He was such an
activist god in Iftel but let Karse go on it's merry way to hell for so many
centuries!  

I was also very annoyed that Misty just got rid of Van and Stef...especially
after them not even really having a part in the book!  I was hoping to see
at least a little bit of everyone's favorite herald mage!

Well this is sort of a one liner....I really enjoyed Storm breaking....but
it probably should have been two books.

Sean (who has been sorting papers for 6 hours and wonders if this makes any
sense!)
"In honor of the death of bohemia, an impromptu salon will commence
immediately following dinner...Mimi Marquez, clad only in bubble wrap, will
perform her famous lawn chair-handcuff dance to the sounds of iced tea being
stirred"
"La vie boheme" by Jonathan Larson from the musical "RENT"


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 16:55:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Grail (sorry <g>) /SB Spoilers -- Mindspeaking & end of SR&SB
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.960924164500.29963I-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

On Tue, 24 Sep 1996 Soljan-+AT+-aol.com wrote:

> Mat says:
> << Oh the horror!  Being chased by kyree MindSinging "Herald's Creed" at you!
>  Or "FAP"!  Or "Mis-Conceptions"!  Run away! (I finally saw MP and the Holy
>  Grail this weekend. <g> ) >>
>   LOL!! You finally saw it!  Yeah for Mat!  How about wild kyree singing the
> _Camelot_ song?  I have the words to that if anyone's interested,  they're
> kinda mumbled in the movie.  Mat,  see what you've done,  I'm going to be
> quoting Python for days!

Help!  I'm being repressed!  <weg>  I've got to say, that movie is
really....odd.  Funny, but odd.  At least I finally get the swallow thing.
"On second thought, lets not go to Camelot.  It's a silly place." (Okay,
waaay paraphrased) :)

SPOILER
*

















Does anyone remember the Mindspeaking/almost flame-war we had last spring?
About whether it just transmits words, or other stuff too?  Well, it seems
that SB clears it up with the Teleson.  When he's talking to the
non-Mindspeaker, Firesong notices that he only gets words, and no
emotions or other thouhgts.  So we know that these things are the norm,
and we obviously just don't notice it.  But, I'd think that, when a
strong Mindspeaker 'Speaks to an unGifted (like Rolan) the recipient just
gets the words. The exception seems to be Karal with Altra and Florian.
He says that after the end of SR, he can feel them all the time, like
Talia with Rolan.


Oh, I noticed a slip up in SB.  At the end of SR, it's made clear that
each of the weapons comes with instructions on how to destroy them.  It
was that and Treyvan's Litany of Death that helped them figure out what
the weapons did.  Yet, in SB, they can't destroy them, and it's them going
off that causes the deaths/blindness/scarring/etc.  If Misty had been
consistent, and let them destroy the other weapons first, none of the rest
would have happened.


Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,   |"To see them all 'adrowning, as they
Adept, and God of Procrastination| tried to swim ashore.  (Doesn't help
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu       | when you shoot at 'em.)  Sailing down 
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| along the coast of High Barbary!"      
                                 |  "High Barbary" - Heather Alexander


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 96 16:58:03 -0400
From: Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
To: "Misty List" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>
Subject: Braid 'n' Brvaes On Campaign
Message-ID: <9609242102.AA16977-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net>

Thanks to the evils of computers that crash late at night when you're on 
dirty phonelines and have to get up early to leave the next morning, this 
email, meant to be sent last friday night, is being sent tuesday 
afternoon. As lots more has happened since then, some of this isn't 
accurate, but, at the same time, I don't wanna have to put the pertinent 
bits in another. SO after I get all my mail (with this dirty a line 
something that will take quite a while and quite a few dire warnings to 
this son of a calculator and a chirra), I'll be writing NEW stuff, 
especially about SB! And expect more about the Pterry-Misty link, too.

>>Of course, Sex Magic is a big deal in The Fire Rose.  
>
>Hey, is _The Fire Rose_ supposed to be set in the SERRAted edge world? I
>know its
>a stand-alone novel, but theres already enough variations in the SERRA world
>that
>it would seem possible.

I dunno..the magic in fire rose was *quite* different from that of the 
S/DT/BB/JT universe...but, then again, with Misty, who knows?

>Anyone know if _Some Kind of Hero_ from "Mercedes Lackey...Live!" is based
>on a story or
>something?

I've been wondering that for awhile, too. That song's good..sad..but 
good. Not one of the World's Best Filk, but better than Misty's rendition 
of her songs based on Cherryh's stuff. 

>I now see what you guys meant about the squid on the cover-art. Jody Lee
>has lost her mind!

No..no..she lost her mind back with the Naked Snake Lady. She's just been 
hiding it. (Informal survey: Who is everyone's favorite 3 cover artists? 
Hmm...I have to expect SOMEONE will say DKS. BTW, people, this is 
informal, just to get an idea, so no stats or anything, and DON'T WRITE 
ONE-LINERS ABOUT IT!!!!! Put it in as a little part in other posts, or 
something.)

>All righty folks, a bit of bad news. *sob* I got a letter today from the
>publisher who told me that my manuscript was rejected. *sigh* So if I'm
>uncommunicative for a few days, that's why.

=(=(=( Sorry, Jake...that must really, truly, suck. No _Citadel of Fire_? 
<sniffle>
OK, peoples..until Jake is feeling better about that idiot publisher that 
obviously doesn't know good writing when it's in front of their nose 
rejecting his novel, I, Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, God 
of Night, Patron Deity of All Things Nocturnal, declare a Bippy 
Cease-Fire. No mentions of Bippy, people. Please. Give Jake some 
peace...for awhile <weg>

>Jake, you are NOT a failed writer! You just haven't sold a story yet.
>Unless you quit trying

Yeah, Jake. I mean..take me. I can't even write something I like. So 
there;P And the closest to anything akin to publication was a short story 
in the middle school literary magazine. Nor can I think of any ideas 
right now. So..you're 5 million billion steps ahead of me on the 
Evolution of the Writer. 

>ObMisty:  um...um...(thinking _very_hard for something coherent) Valdemar is
>big on religious tolerance.  If the Tayledras & Shin'a'in follow the
>Goddess, and the Karsites pray to Vkandis, do the Valdemarans have one chief
>or predominant religion? (lame, I know, but it's not a one-liner).

Well, according to the Arrows COncordance, most Valdemarans worship 
Astera of the Stars, who is the Goddess without the warrior mode, and 
Kernos of the Northern Lights, who, I'd imagine, is akin to the 
Consort(VKANDIS! At least..*I* think it is;>).

>I was on my AOL account, and I was glancing at alt.books.m-lackey.  I
>found this message from Josepha Sherman, who I'm pretty sure is a friend
>of Misty's (those Bard's Tales books and such), answering someone's query
>of what _Firebird_ is about.

Actually, isn't she a chief editor at Baen, or at least, was at some 
point? I have this sci-fi writers thingy from '94 and it says she is. I 
think. I read that this afternoon, peoples;>

Oh, btw, I finally am reading GGK'S Summer Tree, and I like it. Anyone 
else read Holly Lisle's Sympathy For the Devil? It was pretty 
funny..reminescent of Good Omens, sorta.

I'm going to be out of town till tuesday...but I'm brave. No postponing 
for me, nope!;> And I know a lot of my stuff has been very intermittent 
and very outdated, but that's because my data line is extremely 
dirty(that means it has a LOT of static, which interrupts the modem, in 
case someone doesn't know), and GTE is too d*mned lazy to fix it. SO 
they'd betterof by the time I get back.

I WANT STORM BREAKING (and might just get it in Boca)!!!!!<---
GTE DESERVES DEATH BY REPEATED READINGS OF SILVER GRYPHON AND PIERS 
ANTHONY TRASH AND THE SUPPOSEDLY BORING PARTS OF STORM BREAKING!!!!!<--

-+AT+-_________________________/korendil-+AT+-icubed.net\________________________-+AT+-
|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High Court, |
|Magus Minor, One in Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan, God of All      |  
|Things Nocturnal, Ailurophile,#Macintosh Op, Underground Bippy Cultist|
\______________________________________________________________________/
/  Nous avions un petit lapin et nous le promenions dans le quartier.  \
\______________________________________________________________________/


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:17:08 -0400
From: ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: I bought S&S3/SPOILER/What Valdemar needs
Message-ID: <960924171708_484505052-+AT+-emout19.mail.aol.com>

<Lani wrote:
<Did Misty coauthor " If I Pay Thee Not in Gold " with Piers Anthony?

Yes, she did, and it's a very good book. I highly recommend it.

On another note, I share my screen name with my brother, and I've decided
it's about time I have something of my own to go by. So here it is folks,  my
use name will be: NightShade

                                                 WARNING! SPOILERS!



I have to agree with whoever mentioned that Paksennarrion was much grimmer.
ML is definitely pure comedy when compared with that. As anyone who's read it
knows, there really isn't anything in the way of joy and fun in it. Even
Misty's grimmest books have had at least a few less than serious scenes, and
personally, it's never kept me from enjoying her books. 

About the question of Florian, has anybody considered it might be Medren?
That would explain Van knowing him.

As far as what Valdemar needs . . . again, I have to agree, it could use more
description. And another Vanyel book, one with say, Vanyel the spirit as a
main character. What does everyone else think? 

To change subjects yet again, there are some who didn't like the gryphon
books, or the Mage Storms either. Now, everyone is entitled to their opinion,
but for mine, I like all of the above. In fact, I have yet to read a single
Misty book that I completely dislike. Granted, with the exception of the
Bedlam Bards, I don't like the Serrated Edge books very much, after the first
few I couldn't bring myself to read any more. They were just too grim, and
too close to reality. For me, one of the main ideas in reading fantasy is to
escape from reality, who wants to read about reality in a fantasy novel? If
you want reality read nonfiction. Reality can just stink entirely too much
for me to want to read about the nastier aspects of it. 

Oh yeah, and to join in with the birthday announcing, mine's Dec.1st., I'll
be 21 and I have yet to figure out what to do for it. Lucky me, I still have
a few weeks to decide.
That's all for now.

Blessed Be,
ShadowJaz aka NightShade

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:22:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: SB Spoilers/Iftel
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.960924171854.14597A-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

Tsk. Tsk.  Forgot the spoiler space Sean.

















On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Sean wrote:
I said:
> >Speaking of Iftel, was that a bit of a letdown for anyone else?  I mean,
> >we're all wondering for so long what's up there, and what do we get?
> >White Gryphon/k'Leysha, but subsititute Karsites for Kaled'a'in, and mix
> >and match the other non-humans.  Sheesh.
> >
> 
> I was very annoyed about the explanation of Iftel!  Here I was expecting
> this mysterious deity that protected this little country and it turns out
> that it is just Vikandis!  I also couldn't figure out why He was such an
> activist god in Iftel but let Karse go on it's merry way to hell for so many
> centuries!  

I don't know.  Besides, who said that He was active in Iftel.  He set up
the Barrier right after the Cataclysm, and there's no proof that He's done
much since.

> I was also very annoyed that Misty just got rid of Van and Stef...especially
> after them not even really having a part in the book!  I was hoping to see
> at least a little bit of everyone's favorite herald mage!

Oh yeah, this ticked me off.  And hey, wasn't Stef's lute grown into a
tree (on top of spagetti <g> )? I guess that they pulled it loose.

> Well this is sort of a one liner....I really enjoyed Storm breaking....but
> it probably should have been two books.

Umm, Sean?  A one-liner is when your post literally has only one line of
new text.  You had a bit more than that.

> Sean (who has been sorting papers for 6 hours and wonders if this makes any
> sense!)

Ah.  That explains it. <weg>

Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,   |"I looked across the battlefield, blood
Adept, and God of Procrastination| seeping from my wounds. My comrades, 
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu       | they did never yield. For courage 
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| knows no bounds." - Heather Alexander      


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:30:31 -0700
From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: SB Spoilers Ho!!!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <199609242130.OAA16937-+AT+-latimes.com>

At 09:29 PM 9/24/96 +0100, Mat the Cat in Green wrote:
>
>***********************Storm Breaking Spoilers Below**********************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>============================================================================
>> From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
>
>> Don't have the squid on my copy, but I'm guessing the snakes are a reference
>> to shamanistic magic ("real" magic represented by the symbols around Karal's
>> head, and Karal representing priestly magic--the three types of magic
>> focused on in the book.
>
>What shamanistic magic is really used?  Or preistly for that matter?
>
An'desha is SUPPOSED to be learning shamanistic magic.  Karal SUPPOSEDLY has
access to priestly magic (Solaris definitely does).
>
>=============================================================================
>> From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
>
>> >I'm also betting that Owlflight will focus on Firesong and Karal...
>> 
>> One hopes.  But then why is the book listed in the lower corner of the chart
>> rather than in its timeline position the way all the other forthcoming
>> Valdemar books have been listed?
>
>I think it's just missing from your copy Danya.  In mine, Owlflight is
>listed after SB, but separate, like BTS used to be, before she started
>calling it "Kerowyn's Tale".

In my copy Owlflight is in the lower lefthand corner, not on the timeline at
all--but the artwork, maps, etc. are not present and/or complete in my copy.
>
>===========================================================================
==============================================================================
>
>Danya?  Two things.  What made you think of Florian as an Avatar-type, and
>where did Van recognize him?

Might be a difference in my copy again.  Van is horribly chatty when he
shows up in the tower (Who the heck is the priest of Vkandis he's talking
about?  I can't remember!), wants to be friends (or perhaps already IS
friends) with Karal and Florian and all, acting extremely personable (almost
like Misty confused him with Stef).  Stef doesn't say a thing, nor does
Yfandes.  Then suddenly Florian is having kittens about Yfandes, acting much
as if Karal would if Vkandis suddenly manifested in front of him.  Then at
the end Florian, while making plans to return as a Herald, is completely
comfortable talking with Karal about Van, Stef and Yfandes.  I just got the
impression that Van had some expectation of friendship when he showed up,
Florian had obviously forgotten something so Van and company backed off, and
then after death Florian remembered whatever it was he had forgotten so he
was comfortable about the three again.  No real Textevd; that's just the way
the sequence struck me.

Danya


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 16:31:57 -0500 (CDT)
From: Katherine M Brielmaier <Katherine.M.Brielmaier-1-+AT+-tc.umn.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: re groetjes
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960924162546.10532A-100000-+AT+-gold.tc.umn.edu>



On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote:

> jerry wanted to know (to save everyone from mad penguins and killer goblins)
> They are *not* cookies!
> 
> groetjes is dutch for "greetings" or "give my best to" depending on conotation
> it's like ciao -> multi-purpose word
> 
> pronounced as "gargle- rolled r- oo (as in boot) chuhs". not to be confused
> with "groentjes" which is dutch for little vegetables :)

But how, exactly, does one pronounce "gargle"?  ;) :)  I love that 
description!

> 
> re Karsite language. I thought some character wondered how the Karsites could
> have such a beautiful language and be so barbaric, and then in SR Karal
> corrects somebody in the Compass rose saying the gutterals are like hoarse
> breathing and not gargling -> when is hoarse breathing considered beautiful?!
> (don't say it, I know, keep your filthy thoughts to yourselves!)
> 
> Firemist
> 

That's Kerowyn in By the Sword ( I just read it again).  The Skybolts are 
about to cross back into Karse to try to escape the priests (and others) 
that are hunting them, and the squad leader is looking for someone who 
can speak Karsite better than she can.  It's described as "liquid 
gabble."  I think.

's e do bheatha,

Kaatje


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:43:51 -0500
From: em <Emily_Marso-+AT+-brown.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: what valdemar needs
Message-ID: <v03007804ae6e0f2364a4-+AT+-[128.148.178.23]>

 All this conversation about what is lacking in Valdemar got me to
thinking.  I really miss the exploration of  odd and unusual gifts that we
got in AotQ.  Remember Griffon's friestarting and the in-depth dissection
of Talia's empathy?  All this new magecraft has left me hungering for the
simple mechanincs and ethics of mind magic.  Maybe it's just me though....
I also agree with those of you who said that there seems to be a dearth of
stable male characters, espescially of the happy-go-lucky variety.  I miss
the old Skiff with all my heart.  The whole
sneak-around-the-palace-in-the-dark and perform acts of harmless mischief
is sorely lacking in the newer books. Also, when I first read AotQ I fell
in love with Kris and was reduced to a puddle of sobbing misery when Misty
kiled him off.  So far, no one else has been able to take his place.

I decided to re-read the first two MS books before I read SB, but I can
barely find time to read anything and the temptation of the harcover SB
sitting on my shelf is beginning to be too much!  give me strength...
must....not....give....in......

Emily Marso, who is too new to the list to have any other name
Emily_Marso-+AT+-brown.edu



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:58:37 -0400
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: Reply to: Re: Tannim
Message-ID: <199609241758_MC1-9BA-EFCF-+AT+-compuserve.com>

We do meet Tannim in Jinx high, he's the student that dances with Di before
the Stratocaster Strike. She talks to him after the show-down in the parking lot 
with Sandy as well. . . no, actually I think its after the showdown with the strats 
but before the Sandy thing... hmmm. time for a re-read!

BTW, does anyone else want to know moe about Tannim's life  in high school?
I want to know how he met the dragon, and when, and FX, and ohhhh, just
write it Misty, please!!???!??!!

firemist

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:59:59 -0400
From: kcovert-+AT+-wvnvm.wvnet.edu (Kathy Covert)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Tayledras feather-trading customs
Message-ID: <v01530502ae6dcc7b843d-+AT+-[157.182.48.15]>


Hth asked:
>>   Someone refresh my memory: what are the marriage customs of the
>>Tayledras?  I assume they have some form of marriage, since I don't know
>>of any human civilization that doesn't.  Do we know anything about them?
>>Starwind and Moonsong always refered to themselves as lifebonded, not
>>married.  Is a lifebond just considered more important than a marriage?
>>Were they not married?  Is marriage reserved for couples who intend to
>>produce children?

>...and Julie  <jmacjm19-+AT+-vcomm.net>  responded

>IIRC, Elspeth said in WofF that giving someone a feather from your bond
>bird and having it be accepted was the equivelent of marriage. I dont think
>its only for people who intend to have children. Matter in fact, Darkwind
>said something about "giving a feather of your bond bird means you have
>more permanent intentions." So I think it qualifies for both people who are
>married or lifebonded. If your lifebonded, I'm sure you would trade
>feathers in such a way. I'd say the Taylendres dont differenciate between
>the two.

Yes, but remember that even trading feathers from bondbirds does not imply
monogamy among the Tayledras. From Andesha's hot tub scene in SWarning,
Firesong is "flirting" with Darkwind and Andesha freaks....Elspeth tells
Andesha something like...Even though it would be OK for them, I won't stand
for it, and Darkwind knows it. And in SRising, when Firesong is losing it,
he thinks to himself that under normal circumstances he could turn to
Darkwind for relief, but Elspeth wouldn't understand. Not that Darkwind and
Elspeth were bonded, or exchanged feathers, or that it would be wrong,
just that Elspeth was from a different culture and had unreasonable
expectations of monogamy from Darkwind.

I think feather-trading is a delicate way to proposition someone for a
casual relationship, trading bondbird feathers implies a longer commitment,
but not necessarily life-long or monogamous. Not marriage as the mainstream
Western culture of this planet defines it.


Oh-and regarding Skif and his transformation from a fun-loving
happy-go-lucky guy, remember that Elspeth was only part of that. Skif
confesses to Wintermoon the whole episode with the spy who killed his
contact family in Hardorn, and the personal revenge that Skif took on the
spy, and how heart-sick Skif was over the whole thing. We don't have the
opportunity to see Skif in a stable, happy relationship with Nyara 'cuz
they are back with the Kaled'a'in on the edge of the Dhorisha Plains while
all the action in Storms is happening elsewhere. Maybe we'll catch up with
Skif and Cymry in Owlflight.

Kathy  (wow! two posts in two days....)

Kathy Covert (kcovert-+AT+-wvnvm.wvnet.edu)
Chemistry Department
West Virginia University
(304)293-3435 x4442



------------------------------

Date:        Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:20:02 CDT
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Tayledras marriage customs
Message-ID:  <24SEP96.18720680.0212.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

Guys, I'm not sure that the feather thing is necessarily equivalent to
marriage.  As I recall, the exact phrasing was that trading a feather
from your bondbird indicated "a more permanent committment." So we don't
know if this means a lifetime committment, the most permanent one
possible, or just "I don't think we should see other people."

And if it is a form of marriage, it seems awfully lax.  There are no
witnesses, no provisions for property or divorce or any of the
sociopolitical trappings of marriage.  It seems like mainly a private
expression of love, and remember, marriage as a private expression of
love is a concept that is very very distinctively 20th century (maybe
19th, at a stretch).  Is it really likely that a preindustrial
hunter-gatherer society would have the same ideas about marriage as we
do?

But then, an awful lot of Misty's preindustrial characters from other
worlds seem to think a lot like, um, a 20th century American midwestern
liberal.

Go figure.



HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu

------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 842
*********************************