MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 843

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Daren
	by Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
  2) Re: I bought S&S3/SPOILER/What Valdemar needs
	by Wintershard <peallen-+AT+-naz.edu>
  3) re: What Valdemar needs is .....
	by Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
  4) Re: what valdemar needs
	by Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
  5) SB SPOILER!!!
	by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
  6) lots of little stuff & SB
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
  7) Re: Tayledras/cons/roll call/deLint
	by Claris Smith <ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu>
  8) Cover Art 
	by Claris Smith <ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu>
  9) Re: Tayledras marriage customs
	by "Ramona Winkelbauer [SERA]" <rwinkelb-+AT+-nsf.gov>
 10) Ponytail (minor braid. :)
	by Jaguar <rholsen-+AT+-gateway.us.sidwell.edu>
 11) Re: I bought S&S3/SPOILER/What Valdemar needs
	by ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com
 12) Brvaes Braidsson Encounters Spoilers In Some Not Small Amount
	by Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
 13) Re: Tayledras marriage/TAnnim/SB Spoiler
	by jmacjm19-+AT+-vcomm.net (gar&julie mclaughlin)
 14) Tannim/Bippy/TerriLee/TamLin/reality
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
 15) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 840
	by "Kristin A. Ruhle" <kristin-+AT+-rahul.net>
 16) Tayledras marriage customs
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
 17) Misty isn't what she used to be
	by LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com
 18) Braid: sociology/escapism/sheep/SERRAted edge
	by "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" <Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:39:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Daren
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.960924153320.7950B-100000-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>

On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Mat the Cat in Green wrote:

> > From: Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
> > On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Charles Stevens wrote:
> > > I'm new here, but I do know that's not quite right.  Daren is a prince...
> > > of Rethwallen.  
> > > 
> > 	Well, he *was* a prince of Rethwallen, have you read Arrow's Fall 
> > yet? If you haven't, then I don't want to spoil it for you, go out and 
> > read it, at the end, he is no longer the prince of Rethwellan, he is 
> > indeed co-consort to Selenay.
> 
> Becky, don't confuse the poor guy.  It's BTS, not AFall. :)
> 
	Doh! (a la Homer Simpson) I knew that, really I did. Why are you 
all looking at me like that? I was just...ah....testing your reflexes, 
yeah, that's it. Making sure you've all been doing your reading.....or 
something like that. <g> :) Seriously though, I always get the two 
confused, they pretty much happen at the same time. I think my brain 
cells decided to have an independance revolt. They're tired of being 
dependent on me, and decided to do their own thing. I know I must have 
spelled one of those words wrong, I really am losing it...I need more sleep.


Lady Becky(LIG), Goddess of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereals
Founder of the AftPoSWT (confused? Just ask.)
Mailing List Homepage http://www.psnw.com/~deb/becky/misty.html
beckyanne-+AT+-iforge.com


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:17:42 -0400
From: Wintershard <peallen-+AT+-naz.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: I bought S&S3/SPOILER/What Valdemar needs
Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.95.960924175633.25302A-100000-+AT+-orion.naz.edu>

Nightshade wrote:

> As far as what Valdemar needs . . . again, I have to agree, it could use more
> description. And another Vanyel book, one with say, Vanyel the spirit as a
> main character. What does everyone else think? 

It would be kind of hard. I mean, Van can't leave the Forest, right. You'd
have to have him involved against some raiders of some kind (?). IIRC,
Kris told Talia about them disappearing and all. Oooh! You could also use
Stefan and Yfandes again, if to some lesser amount. How about how the
locals take to having a gaurdian, and getting used to it?
  
> Oh yeah, and to join in with the birthday announcing, mine's Dec.1st., I'll
> be 21 and I have yet to figure out what to do for it. 

Let me see... cuddling up with your favorite sheep? <g> Wait, it's in
the winter...could it be a goat instead <gg> ?
Or how about buying akilt and dancing around in it(sorry, had to say it ;->)
Just to let you know, my b-day's on June 15. Ah, I can just imagine what
summer was like--WARM. Not like these Rochester Autumns.  Oh well.

Typing with frozen fingers and swaddled in blankets,
Wintershard




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: re: What Valdemar needs is .....
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.960924154030.7950C-100000-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>

On Tue, 24 Sep 1996 Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-BAYLOR.EDU wrote:

> >my main gripe is that there's not a lot of joy. No happiness, giggles, 
> >laughter, frivolity, fun, gentleness, warmth, teasing (I do not count that dire 
> >scene where Kris and Dirk are helping Talia at some big do),
> 
> For example, in Black Gryphon, about 
> the only "fun-for-fun's-sake" scene was the "victory dinner" Drake neglected to 
> tell Skan Zhaneel was invited to (albeit, they were in the middle of an armed 
> camp, but you get my drift).  And in Storm Breaking (NO SPOILER) Silverfox and 
> Firesong spar with a great sense of fun about the advantages and drawbacks of 
> "roughing it."
> 
	Not so! You forgot one of my favortie Misty scenes, where Aubri 
and Skan are in the tent, and just ranking on each other, I *love* that 
part, it's absolutely great. Really lets you see the arrogance, even if 
they are just playing, and it reminds me of a couple of people at school 
that I know :)


Lady Becky(LIG), Goddess of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereals
Founder of the AftPoSWT (confused? Just ask.)
Mailing List Homepage http://www.psnw.com/~deb/becky/misty.html
beckyanne-+AT+-iforge.com


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:46:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: what valdemar needs
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.960924154401.7950D-100000-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>



	What Valdemar *really* needs is more musical instruments. They 
have pipes, lutes, harps, drums, and I think that's about it. Now, don't 
you think that a Steinway Louis V Grand Piano would fit perfectly into 
the palace? And shouldn't they have cellos, and all the huge variety of 
instruments that exist. 

Lady Becky(LIG), Goddess of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereals
Founder of the AftPoSWT (confused? Just ask.)
Mailing List Homepage http://www.psnw.com/~deb/becky/misty.html
beckyanne-+AT+-iforge.com


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:48:41 -0700
From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: SB SPOILER!!!
Message-ID: <199609242248.PAA18934-+AT+-latimes.com>

At 10:49 PM 9/24/96 +0100, ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com wrote:
>
>                                                 WARNING! SPOILERS!
>
>












>
>As far as what Valdemar needs . . . again, I have to agree, it could use more
>description. And another Vanyel book, one with say, Vanyel the spirit as a
>main character. What does everyone else think? 

After SB?  Tell us what the -+AT+-#$*&%*! has happened to Van, Stef and Yfandes
now!!!
>
Danya


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:48:33 -0400
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: lots of little stuff & SB
Message-ID: <199609241848_MC1-9D4-75F1-+AT+-compuserve.com>

SB Spoiler at end

here's some filler

Khenta wondered what a dutch gargle sounds like. well, it's a gross description,
but apt. You know how you make hacking sounds when you've got a cold
or lot's of sinus drainage and you need to clear your throat (the spit it out clearing
of throat, not the swallowing). That's the sound. Gross, hunh?

3 favorite cover artists - jody lee (I like her people)
 Micheal whelan (holy wow, I wish I could do that!!!)
and the guy that does the cover art for Gael Baudino's Maze of Moonlight, etc.
 (can't find his name on the inside cover, although I think it's Gould?? Gold??)


Spoiler coming up soon



I mean it



Last Warning

Iftel. . . If the barrier was set up by Vkandis why was it so hard on Karal? There
was all this talk in SR about how the *real* priests were ecstatic in Vkandis'
prescence when the False Son was destroyed. So wouldn't Karal feel the same?
I know that Karal never wanted Vkandis' full, undivided attention, but . . .
(ohh, grin, neat thought just occured to me) Can you image what would have
happened if Elspeth had been sent there with all of Altra's mysterious goings-on
and veiled hints. "Glorious destinies get me glorious funerals, cat. Why don't you
go through the shield, and i'll stay here."

another thing, valdemar representatives in Iftel. only merchants and mercenaries
felt comfortable there (or stayed longer than two seconds)?!? I thought valdemar
didn't have a mercenary guild despite the bolts being there. I mean, first 
Selenay's dad was killed by mercenaries, then Kerowyn had a hard time getting 
hired, then Ancar died, so what need does valdemar have for mercenaries? 
they've got a large standing army and the heralds . . . hmmm I'm confused
now.

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:56:17 -0500
From: Claris Smith <ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Tayledras/cons/roll call/deLint
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960924225617.008d3cc8-+AT+-comp.uark.edu>

At 11:49 PM 9/24/96 +0100, Hth. wrote:
>Guys, I'm not sure that the feather thing is necessarily equivalent to
>marriage.  As I recall, the exact phrasing was that trading a feather
>from your bondbird indicated "a more permanent committment." So we don't
>know if this means a lifetime committment, the most permanent one
>possible, or just "I don't think we should see other people."

That's definitely how it came across to me! (the latter, that is)

I wore my feathers to the con Sunday, but didn't spot any good
prospects...<weg> aside from the guy who came up to me while I was wearing
my Belldandy costume, but that was Saturday <bweg>.  Things went pretty well
at the con <cheer><cheer>, ran smoothly, etc.  I didn't get to complete the
two games I entered because I had to keep running around putting out fires,
so to speak. Ah, responsibility!  One of those people I only see once a year
at the con has been doing some storyboarding for Marvel, and he sent them my
name and address!!! Yes, I hate Marvel, but hey, I'd work for them. =+)
Hypocrisy? What's that?! I bought lots of Tom Canty art cards. Yum.  Anybody
needs help starting/running a con or something, I'm here.

Well now, since my official Staff Badge at the con said "Art Goddess" on it,
maybe I ought to apply after all...that and Cyberpunk...whaddya think? ;-)

Happy birthingdays, and welcomings, I think I missed some, i barely read the
weekend's mail--I'm *so* tired from the con, 4 tests next week, and Monday I
had a very frightening migraine--literally couldn't see straight.  I am
trying to not think about the possibility of such happening again!

If you deLint fans haven't read Mulengro, go for it! Very good--a bit dark,
almost horror, but excellent; Svaha was even better.

OK, the Tayledras thing was the obMisty! Yeah-that's-it!  Oh, all right--re.
Serrated Edge--about as un-GenX as you can get, I think.  Kind of
lightweight, but enjoyable, and yes, KoGaS is much better.


       *Claris Smith: Art/History Major, GM, sf/fantasy Artist, Gung Fu Student*
*      "ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu"            "http://comp.uark.edu/~ccsmith/"
*
"Whoa, what is that, Kermit, an elephant handgun?" "Gotta protect my disks."
(KF--tLC)


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:53:30 -0500
From: Claris Smith <ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Cover Art 
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960924235330.008cf4c8-+AT+-comp.uark.edu>

Firemist wrote:
>3 favorite cover artists - jody lee (I like her people)
> Micheal whelan (holy wow, I wish I could do that!!!)
>and the guy that does the cover art for Gael Baudino's Maze of Moonlight, etc.
> (can't find his name on the inside cover, although I think it's Gould??
Gold??)

You're thinking of Tom Canty.  Gould did some of the non- Whelan Elric
books.  I wish Canty or Whelan would do a Misty book.  I like Jody Lee but
I'm tired of her.

Ha, 2 lines. Take that. ;P


       *Claris Smith: Art/History Major, GM, sf/fantasy Artist, Gung Fu Student*
*      "ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu"            "http://comp.uark.edu/~ccsmith/"
*
"Whoa, what is that, Kermit, an elephant handgun?" "Gotta protect my disks."
(KF--tLC)


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:18:30 -0500
From: "Ramona Winkelbauer [SERA]" <rwinkelb-+AT+-nsf.gov>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Tayledras marriage customs
Message-ID: <v03007800ae6e348588e0-+AT+-[128.150.70.52]>

Hth wrote:
>And if it is a form of marriage, it seems awfully lax.  There are no
>witnesses, no provisions for property or divorce or any of the
>sociopolitical trappings of marriage.  [**]

But remember, the bondbird feather isn't worn inconspicuously; the
Taylendras clans we've seen have sortof had a "when do you think s/he'll
actually *get* the feather" type of expectancy.

That to me implies that the "marriage" is *officially recognized*, even if
we don't see the type of "united in the sight of God/dess and humanity"
ceremony we're used to.  Instead, we have a constant attention to details
(on the part of the observer) such a subtle custom implies.

The personal property seems to be taken by whichever person wants it, and
we haven't seen the *I [now] hate you and want to make your life
_completely_ miserable because of it* personalities in the T. clans so far.
IIRC, several of the Plains tribes had the property issue based on sex:
woman keeps tipi and her belongings, while man keeps his weapons, etc.

Ramona

[**] IIRC, most of the "trappings" of marriage are holdovers from when
women were sold/given/exchanged into the custody of another family.  No
divorce unless the <ahem> heifer is infertile, promiscuous, or just
"defective".  Female half is subordinate to male, ..... do we *really need*
more examples?





------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:22:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jaguar <rholsen-+AT+-gateway.us.sidwell.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Ponytail (minor braid. :)
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.960924195354.24767C-100000-+AT+-gateway.us.sidwell.edu>

On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Claris Smith wrote:
	Heather wrote:
> >know if this means a lifetime committment, the most permanent one
> >possible, or just "I don't think we should see other people."
> 
> That's definitely how it came across to me! (the latter, that is)
> 
	Oh, Gods, Claris, I just had a scary thought. Kermit with 
feathers in his hair. Eek! Anyway...shoot, had a thought......had a 
thought....a-ha! Darkwind and Elspeth! Not lifebonded, I remember someone 
saying a while back (a long while back) that Misty Herself had said at an 
interview that they weren't. Also, remember when the wall fell on him and 
Elspeth though he was dead? That wouldn't have happened with a lifebond.

Jake, then Mat wrote:  
>> (doing an impression of Fat Albert) Heyyy heyyyy heyyyyyyyla!  
> <g> Fat Albert on Velgarth, huh?  I doubt he'd be so fat once Alberich 
> or Kero got through with him
> <g>
        Oh my...I just read that as Fat Alberich! Nooooo! The horror, the
horror! :)


*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*JAGUAR^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Leader of the Cat People    *^|^*  "... intimidating. Ex-marine, I understand."
Goddess of Large Hunter Cats*^|^*  "I'm an ex-mercenary, I never intimidated
Chronicler of the Mage Wars *^|^*   anyone. I killed them." <grin>
Lady in Green 		    *^|^* 		-- Kermit, KF:tLC
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:22:33 -0400
From: ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: I bought S&S3/SPOILER/What Valdemar needs
Message-ID: <960924222232_110153675-+AT+-emout16.mail.aol.com>

Wintershard,

I don't think it would be that hard to think of something for Van. After the
end of SB, I was under the impression that they weren't tied to the forest
anymore. If that's true, then there are lots of possibilities.

Interesting birthday suggestions. Hmmm . . . buy a kilt and dance around in
it. Not bad, but can girls wear kilts? And as for sheep and goats? Nahh, they
stink.

I sympathize about the cold, Colorado Springs is gonna be getting real cold
real soon. By Thursday my fingers will be frozen too.

NightShade

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 96 22:52:05 -0400
From: Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
To: "Misty List" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>
Subject: Brvaes Braidsson Encounters Spoilers In Some Not Small Amount
Message-ID: <9609250256.AA26889-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net>

WARNING: SOME SPOILERS! There, I've said it. Not everything is spoliered, 
though, so you might consider reading it and when you find areas that 
don't make sense, skip 'em;>

>So what ever happened to the family thing?
>

I dunno..I liked it:) It's nice being the old soul encased in a young 
bo--am I some Sidhe version of a Companion?!;> Is Seranna still here? I 
know SOMEONE from AOL hasn't been answering their mail recently, from the 
fact that my MoC nags never get through;>

>OBMisty: Why is it, when we have people anxious to see Ruvan or Seejay 
>or Velvar (and I even remember somebody wanting more of Jakatha!) and
>some who scream for more about Iftel at every chance, people who want
>to know more about the economy, poltics etc of every nook and cranny
>of Velgrath, that when Misty actually shows us a new area (The Eastern 
>Empire) in some depth all we can do is complain about how boring it is?

I LIKED (yes, you saw right: LIKED) the Empire parts! I thought they were 
sorta interesting, we got to go into the mind of a guy who doesn't mind 
dumping dead assasins into cradles and passes on killing babies for 
solely political reasons...or maybe I'm just morbid;> I didn't like 
Misty's job on insane-Charliss, but there're worse.

>okay now! King _Valdemar_ did seek help from any and all dieties who 
>were willing. 

Oh, really, Vrondi..do you really hold onto the belief that there are 
more deities on Velgarth than the Star-Eyed and Vykaendas (to use the 
alternate, and most likely less corrupted, form)

> "There is no 'one true way'"     Alberich was Karsite!
>_Mero_, the collegium cook is the person who's always quoting from 
>the Book of the One.
>

I wonder why Misty spent the time to create the single monotheistic 
religion we know of on Velgarth to simply give a Cook some Great Quotes? 

>    -Vrondi,"Mistress of the Air, One With the Trees"

Ooo...that reminds me. The Elizabethan Misty is called Queen of Air and 
Darkness, right? WEEEEllll...that's also the title of a short story, it 
seems. It won some award or another quite some time ago, forget the 
author. So is the title not kosher? 

>                      #wicca Op

What network?

>This is my first posting and I must say that all the speculation about 
>Florian 
>has sent me back to the LHM books and also to Oathbreakers.  I was searching 
>for a description of the Herald and the Companion who rescue Keth and Tarma 
>from the snowstorm.  Don't think he's either of them.

Well, I have my ideas, but I just decided to do a separate SB-only post, 
buuuut...Danya saying that Florian seemed very familiar with Van and Stef 
is pretty misleading. The book really doens't even suggest that, imo.

>I just reread Storm Warning and Storm Rising in preparation for 
>getting Storm Breaking (soon, soon, soon....) and in the first book, 
>I seem to recall Tremane mentioning the _forty_ little gods, and then 
>in the second, suddenly there are a _hundred_!  Did anyone pick up on 
>this, or am I imagining things?!

Ooo...very good point, especially since in the third book you find out 
what that term means. TECHNICALLY the term could come out being all 
right, but Misty should keep better track;>

>Query:  In BTS, I was confused a little by the timeline.  Does Kethry's 
>adept 
>status give her and Tarma extra long life?  They seem to be crossing an 
>awful 
>lot of historical time starting with their trip into Rethwellen to save Idra 
>and then having Daren and Kero as students - a long time after that - she's 
>their granddaughter -- while Daren's brother is killed trying to Ambush 
>Selany?  It seems like a long time before he then meets Selany.  About 20 
>years?  Is that right?  ( I can't look it up because I loaned out my copy 
>- I 
>should never do that).

OK. I love this...Misty's valdemaran historian, whomever it is (I can't 
remember..Pat Tobor or something?) is pretty bad. He's totally mangled 
from Arrows onward. Unfortuantely, I don't have any MIsty's handy...argh.
>
>Query:  Do we know how Tarma dies?  I presume she does as she shows up in 
>"Winds" helping Darkwind and Elspeth as a "dead" swordsworn.  Is this tale 
>in 
>a short story somewhere? Does it take place during the BTS timeframe?

Nopers, we never find out. Maybe in FoV? But she is quite DEFINITELY 
dead, and has been for some time.

>Just a quick question; why does the energy from someone dying go back to
>the land and not a god or goddess... *gives a mental shriek as she realizes
>she's echoing Philosophy class in degrees* ahem. Er. Sorry. ::sheepish::
>Does a religious sacrifice count as blood magic? Or if the Cold Ones kill
>someone and use it to fuel whatever rites they may have, 's that count?
>::hopeful look:: <g> And, um, whenthose bandits were killed in Vanyel's
>Forest, does that mean that Van would be using blood magic because he
>needed energy to pull (from ~somewhere~) in order to do anything? Or is
>that borderline... or earth magic... I think I'm making things up out of
>whole cloth because SB has been sitting around collecting dust and I've
>barely touched more than a hundred pages of it. Hey, um, if the storms were
>disrupting everything, does that mean that magical creatures like balisks
>die, or do they just get warped? ::curious smile::

Kim...just finish SB. Please. I texplains that in part. Really.

>Lesse, what else, what's something.. oh, right. The sword that speaks for
>the King of Rethwallen. The starblade poison weapon used to attack Van.
>Those are mage instruments, and they obviously were around for quite some
>time after Need, so why is it that Firesong says that magic can't be put
>into inanimate things? (Somewhere in WoChange, IIRC...?)

My guess is that it hasn't been done in quite some time, and, in fact, 
cannot be done anymore. And Fire didn't wanna confuzzle El. As 
Tremane..erm..or someone..Karal? says: Learn the rules first. Then the 
exceptions.

>>I think that whomever wrote that timeline should be dragged to the
>>Pelagirs by a pack of wilk kyree and shot. It is *horrible*!
>
>*giggle* Are wilk kyree like filk kyree? *snicker* j/k. But since it was
>Misty who wrote it, (it says "by Mercedes Lackey") I'm not so sure that'd
>be such a great idea. I mean, we want to kill ~Larry~, {who spells things
>wrong in his his captions *feeling itchy* besides not being that great an
>artist} not Misty! *chortle*

No..no..according to SB <finally gets enerygy to reacha cross room> it's 
by Pat Tobin. We don't know him, he doens't write, AFAIK he doesn't filk, 
and if the only thing he can do is write horrible timelines, he deserves 
his fate...mawahahaha

>Well, ::laugh:: 's only because Van lived through the reign of two rulers.
>If the OathBound had stretched into Roald's reign, it might have gone under
>the "Reign of Roald" section. *gryn*

Oh? BUt what about the rule of Selenay and Daren? Daren DOES have power, 
ye' know...especially after saving Valdemar from rogue-nodes and evil mad 
mages...

>ObMisty2:  Given Misty's obvious uneasiness with
>sex, I think that the chances of a sex-magic mage showing up in one of her
>books are pretty slim.

I assume, Cen, that you mean a WELL-WRITTEN sex-magic mage showing up? 
B/c there was always <shudder. second shudder at thoughts of it being 
last Di ever published> Jinx High...

>Basilisks and other such creatures are actual monsters out of medieval
>bestiaries.  (Although I'm not sure if that's where Misty got her ideas for
>them or if she raided the AD&D Monster Manuals ;->.)  There are many
>folktales and legends that make use of these monsters, and they are quite
>appropriate to Velgarth's medieval stetting.

I alsways got the feeling that when Misty was in her Early Days (tm), she 
DID rely on common enough things,  like basilisks, as monsters. When this 
was all so far off with little Talia cuddled up in Valdemar, or Tarma and 
Keth busy showing that women can write fantasy and no-one has to conform 
to stereotypes, this was fine. But then she needed real-as-life stuff, 
and realized that basilisks and such wouldn't cut it. In my little head, 
I just see Misty throwing her Monstrous Manual into a fire and doing a 
little jig on the spot before inbibing a lot of caffiene and finding that 
replacing her mythological griffons with gryphons helped, and kewl little 
lizard dudes and birdmen added flavor...and decided that the Mage-Wars 
could explain her earlier attempts. IMO, Misty's world, over time, had 
been giving a more realistic, and in ways exotic, touch that at the 
beginning it lacked...

>ObMisty..(I hope this hasn't come up recently) Does everyone have a 
>Misty character that they identify with? Mine would have to be Talia, 
>I've always had an affinity with underdogs and never any difficulty 
>with feeling empathy for others...(can get my self in BIG trouble 
>though...)

I think that for awhile I identified with pre-magic Van, but now...I 
think Karal, pre-blindness. Which is appropriate, considering I was 
'cast' as Karal, pre-SB;>

Yes, Yes, I realize that this doesn't cover a lot of mail, but it's 
plenty long and I don't wanna get any more mail until GTE gets out 
(finally...they very politley leave a note saying they came, figured out 
what the problem was, but didn't fix it. Of course, they left out WHY 
they didn't, which was that they couldn't find the phone box...sigh...). 
I'll still make a SB post now...







-+AT+-_________________________/korendil-+AT+-icubed.net\________________________-+AT+-
|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High Court, |
|Magus Minor, One in Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan, God of All      |  
|Things Nocturnal, Ailurophile,#Macintosh Op, Underground Bippy Cultist|
\______________________________________________________________________/
/  Nous avions un petit lapin et nous le promenions dans le quartier.  \
\______________________________________________________________________/


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:43:17 -0400
From: jmacjm19-+AT+-vcomm.net (gar&julie mclaughlin)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Tayledras marriage/TAnnim/SB Spoiler
Message-ID: <v01530500ae6e18d59c8a-+AT+-[204.253.92.105]>

>Hth wrote:
>>And if it is a form of marriage, it seems awfully lax.  There are no
>>witnesses, no provisions for property or divorce or any of the
>>sociopolitical trappings of marriage.  [**]
>
Then Ramona wrote:
>But remember, the bondbird feather isn't worn inconspicuously; the
>Taylendras clans we've seen have sortof had a "when do you think s/he'll
>actually *get* the feather" type of expectancy.
>
>That to me implies that the "marriage" is *officially recognized*, even if
>we don't see the type of "united in the sight of God/dess and humanity"
>ceremony we're used to.  Instead, we have a constant attention to details
>(on the part of the observer) such a subtle custom implies.
>
>
IIRC, it was When Elsepth and Darkwind traded feathers and rings in Winds
of Fury that Elspeth said accepting a feather was the hawkbrother form of
marriage.
As someone else said, it doesnt neccesarily have to be monogomius.I believe
Ramona is right with the assuption that it IS officially recognized. The
just dont have a public ceremony. Just wearing the feather in public is all
the ceremony they need.
-----------------------------------
Firemist wrote:
>BTW, does anyone else want to know moe about Tannim's life  in high school?
>I want to know how he met the dragon, and when, and FX, and ohhhh, just
>write it Misty, please!!???!??!!
>
I'd love to have more background on Tannim! I really like him, and enjoy
reading about him. Think we should petition her publisher to let her write
more about TAnnim and Di Tregarde? Maybe if they knew the books were in
demand, they would publish them.
---------------------------------
Danya wrote:
>>
>>As far as what Valdemar needs . . . again, I have to agree, it could use more
>>description. And another Vanyel book, one with say, Vanyel the spirit as a
>>main character. What does everyone else think?
>
I agree! I really want to hear more of Vanyel. I would like to know where
Vanyel, Stephen and Yfandes end up. Vanyel is too good a character to just
disapper! Maybe they will show up as Taylendras? Could you imagine Vanyel
becoming a companion?? "You are Joe, I am Vanyel, I choose you!" Poor kid
would go into double shock! I just hope if Vanyel and Stephen come back
"alive", they dont have as many problems as they did the first time around!
------------------------------
Nightshade said:
>Oh yeah, and to join in with the birthday announcing, mine's Dec.1st., I'll
>be 21 and I have yet to figure out what to do for it. Lucky me, I still have
>a few weeks to decide.
>That's all for now.
>
Well, I guess I'll join the birthday list. Mine's October 9th. Just please
dont ask how old I'll be! Gee, can I be the goddess of "people who MIGHT
fall under Gen X"?
----------------------------------SB SPOILER-------------------------



Either Sean or Mat said:
>Speaking of Iftel, was that a bit of a letdown for anyone else?  I mean,
>> >we're all wondering for so long what's up there, and what do we get?
>> >White Gryphon/k'Leysha, but subsititute Karsites for Kaled'a'in, and mix
>> >and match the other non-humans.  Sheesh.
>> >
I didnt like that part of Iftel either. It seems abit confused. What I want
to know is, after the first mage storms, why didnt the gryphons of Iftel
fly back to the Dorsha plains? I know that in several of the books it says
that the Taylendras had vales near Lake Evendim. That wouldnt have been far
for them to travel. They could have flown to either the Shin'a'in or
Taylendras and stayed with them. Instead, Trevalen and Hydona show up
first. And why were they so secretive with Valdemar?

Another thing, IIRC, somewhere in one of the other books, it says that
Iftel is ruled by the Wind Gods. Are the gryphons the "Wind Gods" they are
talking about? Vkandis is the Sun God, not Wind god. I'm a bit confused.

Ok, thats it
Have a good night everyone!
Julie



------------------------------

Date:        Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:01:06 CDT
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Tannim/Bippy/TerriLee/TamLin/reality
Message-ID:  <24SEP96.24860017.0077.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

Yes, you do meet Tannim in Jinx High.  He's the young sensitive with the
green eyes who has the guts to ask Diana to dance at the Spring Fling or
whatever, then has a heart attack when the magic starts flying.  You
know, the one that Diana comments will be a heartbreaker when he gets a
little older?  That's my Tannim.  Derek mentions him by name at one
point.  (Which is odd, since his mage mentor *gave* him the name Tannim,
and if he's not a mage yet, how the heck?  Some kind of dream thing?  Or
just Misty adding stuff in later on?  My vote's on the latter.)

You know, I sympathize with Jake about the novel experience, but I don't
see what the big deal is about Bippy.  For God's sake, sometimes people
find your offhanded remarks more amusing than you intended.  Jake,
you're taking this so *personally.* We're just having fun.  You don't
see a bunch of sheep angrily picketing outside Aunt Mel's house, do you?
(Do you, Mel?  You don't, right?) Let us have our little joke; you don't
have to think it's funny, we won't make you play.

It's not Terri Lee, is it, the cover artist?  What's her name?  I can't
believe I've drawn a blank of this magnitude.  Well, anyway, I don't
think she's crazy.  Her pictures -- get this, guys -- are PROBABLY NOT
MEANT TO BE EXACT DEPICTIONS.  They're probably STYLIZED.  Karal has a
halo because it looks groovy.  The Companions have pink tails because
pink is a more interesting visual that plain ol' white.  There's a squid
on the cover because she wanted to put a squid there, and it looks neat.
Do we have to be so nitpicky?  Vanyel had black hair because it made him
look younger, and the LHM series was supposed to appeal to younger
people who might not have been so interested in a guy who looked old to
them.  I happen to like the look of those covers, 100% realistic or not.
   And I think Larry Dixon's a pretty darn good artist.  His writing may
leave something to be desired, but by golly, I like his art.  I LOVED
the plate at the end of Black Gryphon called "Amberdrake Alone." It was
so evocative.  I just sat there and stared at it for minutes, feeling
really bad for Amberdrake.  I probably cared about him more in those
several minutes than I did through the entire rest of the book.  So
there.

Yes, funny enough, a LOT of my problem with Tam Lin (the Pamela Dean
novelization) was that NOTHING -+AT+-#^#$#! HAPPENED UNTIL THE LAST THIRTY
PAGES.  Now, I'm into character-driven in a big way.  But the characters
have to be *driving to someplace.* Driving around in circles does not
count.  And they were so bloody pretentious, always on about Christopher
Marlowe and other Highly Intelligent things.  I just kept thinking,
"Don't these people play D&D?  Basketball?  Yahtzee?  Do ANYTHING but
critique Shakespearean productions?" I would have been so bored with
these people in five minutes in real life.  Whoops, come to think of it,
I guess I was in the book, too.
   Read Waking the Moon instead.  There's a good college fantasy novel.
Or Memory and Dream was also good.  But Waking the Moon was the best --
won the 1996 Mythopoeic Award, in fact.  (College of the Archangels and
St. John the Divine!  Go Team!) <authors are Elizabeth Hand and Charles
de Lint, respectively.>

   Am I the only person in the world who doesn't read fantasy to escape
from real life?  I happen to like life okay, thanks, but I'm crazy about
fantasy, too.  It seems like every time I talk to fantasy fans, they say
something about real life being boring or depressing or otherwise
unappealing, and that they read fantasy to get away from it.  Really, is
there anyone else out there that does *not* feel this way?  Because I'm
really beginning to feel like a bit of a freak here.

   IMHO, what Valdemar needs is a couple of romantic subplots that don't
end abruptly when the characters confess their undying love and sleep
together.  Is this EVER the end of the interesting things that happen in
a relationship among people you know?  This is just where it starts to
get INTERESTING.  But in Misty's world, boom, that's it, happily ever
after.  Dirk & Talia, Kerowyn & Eldan, Selenay & Daren, Elspeth &
Darkwind (keep typing Darkwing -- I am the Tayledras that lives in your
trees), Keren & Sherrill, Kethry & Jadrek, Skif & Nyara.  They totally
disappear as a romantic subplot as soon as they become an item.  Even
Vanyel and Stefen have mainly external problems.  You get the feeling
that left to their own devices they'd be doing the Happy Hamster Hop
into eternity.  Okay, there was An'desha and Firesong.  But that's all
I can think of.
   That's one of the things I loved about Swordspoint.  You get all this
tension and action within a relationship that exists throughout the
entire book.  It's never the cop-out: will they get together?  Will they
go to bed?  It's: how will they cope with life together?  I find that at
least as interesting, and not so overdone.


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu
"And Angel Dumott Schunard will model the latest fashions from Paris
while accompanying herself on the ten-gallon plastic pickle tub!"
   --"La Vie Boheme" RENT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:18:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Kristin A. Ruhle" <kristin-+AT+-rahul.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 840
Message-ID: <199609250418.AA23345-+AT+-waltz.rahul.net>

Can I make one request? Limit SB spoiler threads to general discussions of 
the plot, please...don't reveal which characters *die*. You see, I (and 
probably some other people) get the list in digest mode, and avoiding 
spoiler threads outright is difficult. A better idea might be "teaser" 
threads that keep the discussion going and reveal just enough to 
*interest* those who haven't read it.

I'm sorry if I sound unreasonable...I don't really want to have to switch 
back to separate messages to keep from reading spoilers. My mailreader 
defaults to newest message first, making it a little hard to follow the 
threads when the messages are separate, and plowing/sorting through them 
can take a lot of time. (I mostly lurk.)  You could try digest mode 
yourself for a short while to get an idea what it's like; it's really not 
as good an idea for frequent posters because you have to edit more to add 
to a thread, but it is an example of a different way of reading mail.

Kristin


------------------------------

Date:        Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:31:05 CDT
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Tayledras marriage customs
Message-ID:  <24SEP96.25399602.0077.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

Now, wait on, here.  The "trappings" of marriage are not necessarily
there for the specific purpose of subordinating women.  Not by a
longshot.  For example, the dowry, that infamous custom of "buying" a
woman from her father, was not originally that at all.  The dowry (a)
insured that the prospective groom did in fact have the material
resources to start his own family, responsibly caring for wife and
children, and (b) was supposed to remain in the father's keeping, so
that if the marriage ended, the woman would have that money with which
to support herself.
   A whole damn sight better than our present system, where women often
don't leave marriages because everything they've ever owned is in their
husband's name, and a divorce would leave them totally broke with no job
and often no training or education, and probably not custody of their
children, due to said financial situation.
   This is exactly the reason that those "trappings" exist: to make
expectations clear and to protect all parties.  Of course, they were
sometimes abused, and sometimes the real purpose was eventually all but
forgotten.
   Now, it's kind of hard to extrapolate regarding marriage in the
Tayledras culture, since unlike pretty much any human society I've ever
heard of, there appear to be no gender roles among the Tayledras.  Which
would, as you say, change the face of marriage and family a lot.  Which
is exactly why I want to know *how* it changes marriage and family.

   I have this theory (not, I'm sure, original, but hey, I came up with
it myself) that everything about a culture revolves around family
relationships.  Biologically speaking, organisms exist to reproduce
themselves, and humans are no real exception.  Humans have the
disadvantage that, being so complex, it takes many years of care and
nurturing before children are self-sufficient, and if any society did
not carefully protect children and ensure that someone *is* taking care
of them and *is* teaching them the ways of that society, it would not
last twenty years.
   Therefore, I feel like it's kind of a cheat to give us this exotic
society and not tell us anything about what kind of family units they
form.  Okay, so they seem to be very sexually free and not too into
monogamy (reference the comments made earlier about Darkwind, Elspeth,
and Firesong) But someone still has to have responsibility for the
children.  Is it the mother?  If the mother is not monogamous, does that
mean that fathers have no formal place in the upbringing of children,
because you never quite know who the father is?  Are children raised
completely communally?  There are billions of questions surrounding a
society like the Tayledras, and marriage is just the beginning.
   Misty kind of implies that the Tayledras just do whatever feels good,
and everyone else is cool with that.  I've never heard of a society that
worked like that, and I'm a little dubious about it.  I guess it could
work.  But I feel like most societies will have a little more structure
than that.
   This is the kind of thing I sit around wondering about.  <g> I have
too much time on my hands, don't I?  Either that, or I just had way too
much fun in Intro to Sociology.


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:31:06 -0400
From: LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Misty isn't what she used to be
Message-ID: <960925003106_484777185-+AT+-emout15.mail.aol.com>

On Tues. Sept. 24, Esmeralda Evensbane wrote:

>>Deary me, I think I've just joined the "ML ain't what she used to be"
brigade. <<

I've been re-reading the LHM, and I've come across some evidence that Misty
wasn't what she used to be even back then. This jolted me right out of the
story:

The following is all from Magic's Promise, (DAW pbk. ):

Pg.60: describing Savil- "...there was nothing about her that told her true
age, which was just shy of eighty."

Pg. 175: Savil is about to Gate to K'Treva, "It's been twenty years, and his
[Vanyel's] channels are still sensitive to Gate-energy..." Vanyel was 16 when
his channels were blasted open; Van is 36 at this point in the story.

Pg. 178: "It was impossible to tell that Starwind was Savil's age, and
Moondance only a little older than Vanyel." Which would make Starwind near
80, and Moondance around 40.

Pg. 184: Savil, to Starwind, "Just because you were near thirty and Moondance
was all of sixteen" [when Savil introduced them] Which means that Starwind is
only 13-14 years older than Moondance. 

Pg. 195: Moondance is telling Withen and Treesa about his past: "Some thiry
years ago... there lived a boy named Tallo." If Tallo was 16 at the time of
this story, that makes Moondance 46 now, which is more than a "little" older
than Van, and which makes Starwind around 60ish, which is NOT nearly 80!

I could understand an author losing track of this type of detail while
writing early drafts, but such mistakes should surely be caught upon later
revisions, or at least, an editor should catch them. 

On the other hand, I think I'm enjoying LHM even more than I did the first
time I read it. In fact, I've been rereading most of Misty's works while
waiting for SB, and I'm finding this true of all of them. And I'm wondering
if anyone else feels this way- I think when I first read her books especially
the second and third of a trilogy, I have expectations and hopes of how
things will develop. Of course, Misty has her own ideas about who things
should work out, and when her plans differ from my hopes, I feel let down.
But when I go back and reread the books, I know what to expect, and I enjoy
the story for itself. Did that make any sense?

The Lilac Fairy, 
who is waitng for SB from her library, and has been sneaking into bookstores
reading bits here and there.

Lee Cox
San Francisco Performing Arts Library & Museum (SF PALM)


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:01:12 +0930
From: "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" <Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid: sociology/escapism/sheep/SERRAted edge
Message-ID: <9609250631.AA74544-+AT+-bilbo.cc.flinders.edu.au>

 HTH wrote  "Either that, or I just had way too much fun in Intro to Sociology"

I really like your postings, they are erudite and challenging  ... but this
caught my ear
AI quote from Yes minister
Humphrey (about the Minister's daughter) Can't you make her see reason?
Minister- Of course not she's a sociology student! 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Using fantasy to escape reality - yes I've done that - but when your School
states they are shedding 14 staff (out of a school of 54) sometimes it is
needed. I also like it as it transports me to another world and I've always
liked travelling

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You folk who have this "thing" about sheep - Kiwis are you? Yes I know where
it arose from - it does however tickle my fancy - call it a Aussie thing!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thanx for the discussion on the SERRAted Edge series - I'll still try and
obtain it - after all Sheri Tepper can be very dark and I really enjoy her -
probably because she uses the genre to explore so many issues.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sorry if I occasionally forget to turn my professional signature off - it is
not wanking just tiredness. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wind to thy Wings, listsibs

Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda 

Healer, Dragon Friend & Renunciate 





------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 843
*********************************