MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 845

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Grove-born Companions
	by Disney <JES001-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
  2) Re: ESCAPISM Reality/Fantasy
	by Katherine M Brielmaier <Katherine.M.Brielmaier-1-+AT+-tc.umn.edu>
  3) Opinions on other Misty books
	by Daniel B Delgado <origami-+AT+-grove.ufl.EDU>
  4) Braid: Urban fantasy/Empire threads/second time/Larry/fun/feathers
	by myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
  5) Jinx High
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
  6) Advice to Writers
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
  7) Reply to: Misty isn't what she used to be
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
  8) Re: tone/mood
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
  9) Kermit/JinxHi/Topics/Storm bks/Aus/OiB
	by Claris Smith <ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu>
 10) Reply to: Jinx High
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
 11) Re: ESCAPISM Reality/Fantasy
	by Jake <rynath-+AT+-webspan.net>
 12) Escapism
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
 13) Dutch/Rawn/Tam Lin/spoilers rant/dates/insanity<g>/MageWar/ Mage-Gift/L&W/lots of other stuff/SB Spoilers!!!!!
	by Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
 14) Escapism
	by philip dancause <dancause-+AT+-erols.com>
 15) Re: MageWar/Godhood
	by Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
 16) SB Spoilers!!!!!
	by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:15:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: Disney <JES001-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Grove-born Companions
Message-ID: <01I9WF6PTILW0016YP-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>


I've been re-reading the Mage Winds books (for lack of anything new to read)
and noticed where, in WoF, Vanyel tells Elspeth that Gwena is 'Grove-born'.
He also said that there was something special about groveborn that was not
about the normally born Companions..
And, we know that the Grove-Born have _some_ special characteristics..
After all, in Arrows Flight Talia was picking on Skif about the ability
of Grove born to be 'fertile'...
What exactly ARE the special characteristics of a Grove Born companion?
Is it ever really mentioned? If so, in what book?

Also, I was wondering how many books Misty DID write about Valdemar and
related areas...I've read LHM, AotQ, and the mage winds..And I know
about the new storm winds or mage storms or whatever...but what singles 
were put out?
like about kerowyn, or daren and selenay, etc...I was just shocked
when I read the first mage winds book and found that selenay was remarried
with KIDS no less..
BTW..there's been a lot of talk about why Daren is still called a 'prince'.
He is known as consort--merely "prince-consort".. I think this is simply
because he IS a prince in his own realm and he didnt' renounce it to
be a royal member of Valdemar..Probably, IM(ever so humble)O it's probably
a fact that if the members of his family died and he was called on to be
ruler of (rethwellen? is that where he's from?) Then the 2 nations would
be one...that's just a thought, though. :)

Jennie
"disneyworld"
Worshipper of the Mouse








------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:51:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: Katherine M Brielmaier <Katherine.M.Brielmaier-1-+AT+-tc.umn.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: ESCAPISM Reality/Fantasy
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960925153527.18424C-100000-+AT+-gold.tc.umn.edu>



On Wed, 25 Sep 1996 ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com wrote:

> Yesterday I wrote something about escapism, several other people added on to
> that and I'd like to reprase that a little bit.
> 
> I aggree that using fantasy to totally escape real life is not a good idea,
> and incorporating the things we get from fantasy is the better thing to do.
> However, though I am usually pretty happy with my life, there are times when
> that escape really is needed. Life can get pretty icky sometimes, and at
> times a person just needs to get away, even if it's just long enough to
> regain some perspective. Anyways, that's all for now, more later.

(My computer just ate my reply to this message----I have no idea if it 
was sent or not, so here it is again).

Since it looks like you were referring to some things that i said in my 
last post, I'm just going to jump right in and reply to your 
clarification with a clarification of my own.

Everybody needs to escape from reality.  That's what books and fantasy 
worlds are all about--that needed and necessary break from everyday 
life.  When I talk about "escaping" I'm talking about people who have 
focused so entirely on their fantasy worlds that they've given up on 
workig on their own lives.  (And I've me a few people like that, so I 
know what I'm talking about.)

When I talk about escaping, I don't mean people who are in to RolePlaying 
Games, or who learn Klingon, or who like to dress up and RenFaires or 
Conventions.  That's a good way to have some fun, and it makes you 
more interesting, IMO.  I'm talking about people who have given up on the 
real world and substituted their own more pleasant place to be.  Yes, 
life is tough, yes I would like to crawl in some deep dark hole and never 
be heard from again, but the fact is, I'm here, and I have to deal with 
my problems, and the only thing fantasy can really do is give me a break 
from it once in a while.

Case in point:  My sister read AotQ last year, and she wanted to be 
Herald so passionately that she lost all interest in her day to day 
life.  She spent all her time daydreaming about being Chosen, and she 
gave up on working out all of her real-life difficulties.  This was not a 
good situation at all, especially since she was severely depressed, and 
this fantasy world made an all-too-convenient escape for her.

Then one day she ran across that little dedication that ML has in one of 
the novels--the one to "all the Heralds of this world" or something like 
that (me-+AT+-school, books-+AT+-home).  Bingo!  My sister suddenly woke up, and 
realized that instead of wasting her time wishing to be Chosen, she could 
work on becoming a real-life Herald---a firefighter, a police 
officer--all the people who daily risk themselves for the greater good.  
She realized her own potential, and she saw the possibilities of the 
daylight world around her.

Am I making any sense here?  I don't really think anyone on this list 
qualifies as "trying to escape life" under my definition.  We all seem 
pretty grounded in reality, and we're having some fun, too.  It's when 
people try to project their lives into that fantasy world, instead of 
projecting a little of that fantasy world into their lives, that makes me 
nervous.  When you do that, you shortchange yourself of your own 
potential, and I truly believe that's a crime--against yourself, and 
against the others who could benefit from it.  

Okay, I'll step off the soap-box now.

's e do bheatha,

Kaatje


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:26:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel B Delgado <origami-+AT+-grove.ufl.EDU>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Opinions on other Misty books
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.960925172206.22262A-100000-+AT+-camphor>


Well even though this seems like a Mage Winds and Storms mailing list
going to ask a few questions on some of her other books.  Now in a series
of books that she wrote with a couple of other authors Magic went by way
of the voice mostly though there was magic of the dead and sorcery. The
main characters though were Bards...I don't think it was Bardic Voices
though but I can't remembe rthe name of the books.  Also did she ever do
one of the Wing Commander Novels and was it worth the read?

OriGami un-offical god of papercuts and wastebaskets



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:38:39 +0000
From: myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid: Urban fantasy/Empire threads/second time/Larry/fun/feathers
Message-ID: <199609252134.QAA16858-+AT+-cdale3.midwest.net>

Hth wrote:
>>>  4.  I've heard complaints that the books aren't gritty enough, but I
tend to disagree.  No, they're not as violent and dangerous as they
really could be, but I don't think they're cuteness and flowers, either.
In Born to Run, a drug-addicted kid gets sacrificed by evil elves.  In
Bedlam Boyz (and *I* liked that book just fine, thank you) half the gang
members die in shootings, and the main character doesn't manage to save
her friend from the streets (it's amazing how many people don't think
they deserve any better and resist help when it's offered to them.)
There's a somber note to them, and a feeling that the danger really is
out there, from the human world and the supernaturals.  I appreciate
that.  Without the threat that someone will really get hurt, there's no
suspense.<<<

I haven't read much urban fantasy -- just KoGaS and Summoned to Tourney,
and CotN if you count Di Tregarde books. But I think they were just as good
as some of the Velgarth novels, and better than the Storms (yes, I admit
that, and I haven't even read SB). And I like the touch of "they might be
out there, you never know..." 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Icewolf wrote:
>>>Hmmm.  This brings up something that has been niggling at the back of my
>>>brain.  
Did anyone else get the feeling that the Storm books would be the last we'd see 
of Velgarth?  I think the apocalyptic nature of the Cataclysm was 
over-emphasized, because, for the longest time, I had the dreadful feeling of 
"this is It."  Once I managed to clear that preconception away, I didn't feel 
frustrated or cheated at the end of Storm Breaking at all.  I just had the 
feeling that Misty was leaving her options open for Owlflight.<<<

I thought they were going to be the last, and I was thinking "The last one
better be damned good!!!", and here I am reading all these posts that say
the book dismally sucks. But from what I gander, isn't there going to be a
book called "Owlflight"? I think it might be a Tayledras story, like Vows
and Honor was centered a little on the Shin'a'in culture. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Tiffany wrote:
>>>On the Empire stuff in Storms (warning & rising only for me as yet) 
the last time I read them, I skipped all the Valdemar stuff and just 
read about Tremane and the Empire. Probably going to reread soon 
skipping the Empire and concentrating on the Valdemar stuff. I did 
the same with "Winds of Fate" and thought the two story lines were 
better apart than together. <so, you already knew I was wierd><<<

That's not weird -- at least not an isolated case. In Winds of Fate, I read
all the Valdemar threads, which took me about a day or two, then I read the
Tayledras threads, which took me a day, and I re-read the book in depth, so
that took about five days. In the Storms (I have yet to obtain the last
book), I did the same thing, but it took longer because it was tough to
keep my attention on the Empire threads. And I thought the storylines were
better apart, but the book wouldn't have made much sense if Darkwind
suddenly popped out, and said "Okay, it's spiffy with me -- I'll help ya." 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Lilac Fairy wrote:
>>>On the other hand, I think I'm enjoying LHM even more than I did the first
time I read it. In fact, I've been rereading most of Misty's works while
waiting for SB, and I'm finding this true of all of them. And I'm wondering
if anyone else feels this way- I think when I first read her books especially
the second and third of a trilogy, I have expectations and hopes of how
things will develop. Of course, Misty has her own ideas about who things
should work out, and when her plans differ from my hopes, I feel let down.
But when I go back and reread the books, I know what to expect, and I enjoy
the story for itself. Did that make any sense?<<<

I think I enjoyed LHM the second time around, too. I'm attempting to
re-read the Winds, Wars, and what I have of Storms. I already re-read V&H,
BTS, LHM, and Arrows, and I think it's true with all of them. But I enjoy
the outcomes even if they are different from mine. The reason I like the
books better second time around is that I'm familiar with the characters,
settings, etc, and I can understand the gravity of a serious situation that
I didn't understand the first time, or why a scene that made me laugh the
first time made me howl with laughter the second time, etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hth wrote:
>>>And I think Larry Dixon's a pretty darn good artist.  His writing may
leave something to be desired, but by golly, I like his art.  I LOVED
the plate at the end of Black Gryphon called "Amberdrake Alone." It was
so evocative.  I just sat there and stared at it for minutes, feeling
really bad for Amberdrake.  I probably cared about him more in those
several minutes than I did through the entire rest of the book.  So
there.<<<

YES! I LOVE LARRY DIXON'S ART!!! My favorites are Nyara from WoF, the
portrait of Amberdrake, the Gryphon twins, and Amberdrake Alone. I don't
know what the deal with, bashing his art. But I have to admit -- the cover
for Summoned to Tourney wasn't my favorite(he did the cover, rigth?)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Speaking of Amberdrake, I still think Brent Spiner would be perfect for
Amberdrake.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lady Becky wrote:
>>>Not so! You forgot one of my favortie Misty scenes, where Aubri 
and Skan are in the tent, and just ranking on each other, I *love* that 
part, it's absolutely great. Really lets you see the arrogance, even if 
they are just playing, and it reminds me of a couple of people at school 
that I know :)<<<

Oh yes! I love that scene, too. And Winds of Fury (I think -- I could be
wrong) where Darkwind and Elspeth are playing dress-up. And the bad-song
contest in Magic's Price. I could find more -- Oh yeah, it's not really
fun-for-fun, but the scene where Leslac got thrown into jail in
Oathbreakers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kathy wrote:
>>>I think feather-trading is a delicate way to proposition someone for a
casual relationship, trading bondbird feathers implies a longer commitment,
but not necessarily life-long or monogamous. Not marriage as the mainstream
Western culture of this planet defines it.<<<

I think so, too -- I think it's much better than the engagement ring and
all the fancy-smancy wedding ceremonies with dresses that no one can walk
in. But if it weren't for the weddings, I'd be out of work -- I sometimes
play the piano for weddings. But I think it's really sweet, and it would be
fabulous if the couple can be more than long-term commitment. In an area
like the Pelagirs, I guess a really long-term commitment (like lifetime
commitment) would be really depressing because no one knows when someone
could die from some strange creature or renegade mages in the Pelagirs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay, that's it for today. I'm DONE!! 

I WANT STORM BREAKING NOW!!!!!

Love and other conventional emotions,
Summersong, sometimes Spiffy the Cat, attempting to sing through "Your
Sister Can't Twist but She Can Rock-n-Roll"


------------------------------

Date:        Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:31:44 CDT
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Jinx High
Message-ID:  <25SEP96.17851375.0012.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

Okay, if Korendil has the courage to say that he liked the Empire stuff
in SBreaking, I'll stick my neck out here and ask:
   What was so awful about Jinx High?  I thought it was a fun book.  The
only thing that torked me off was that it needs a sequel so badly, and
we may never get one.
   Not that I'm nominating it for a Hugo or anything, but I'd like to
know why it makes you shudder convulsively.


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu
"Life's too short, babe,
 Time is flying
 I'm looking for baggage that goes with mine."
      --"La Vie Boheme" RENT

------------------------------

Date:        Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:12:32 CDT
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Advice to Writers
Message-ID:  <25SEP96.19665756.0042.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

This just goes to show you the importance of...
TIMELINES
If you're writing something, have a timeline.  Know when everyone was
born, and thusly how old they are every time they appear and in
relationship to everyone else.  If you change your mind, go back and
*edit* the timeline.
   Timelines are a terrible annoyance -- especially if, like Barb and I,
you have a timeline that has to include up to three separate dating
systems.  But I'd be totally lost and confused without one.
   Don't think your readers won't notice.  They will -- right, Lilac
Fairy?
   We know Misty doesn't have one -- or at least not one that's any
good, because no one can figure out how old Elspeth is at any given
time, and none of the ages in LHM sort out right.

One related question: What's wrong with the timelines in the books?  I
don't remember ever looking at them very closely.  It doesn't seem like
getting the books in chronological order would be very difficult --
except for By the Sword, which takes place before, during, and after
Arrows.  Where do you put that?  But anyway, why should wossisname be
torn apart by kyrees, wilk or otherwise?


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:28:44 -0400
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: Reply to: Misty isn't what she used to be
Message-ID: <199609251928_MC1-9D3-98B3-+AT+-compuserve.com>


Look guys, as the Lilac Fairy pointed out MIsty wasn't what she used to be
way back when. Somewhere in Arrows Fall (hang on, I'm going to get it!)

p 30 "He slapped Dirk's back heartily an re-mounted tantris."

p 31 "He and Kris remounteed with a creak of leather..."

This has always bothered me! argh, and it's not even several pages apart
like in LHM, but scarcely even a full page apart! What are her editors doing?!?!

But these little inconsistencies - well (shrug) every writer makes them sometime,
that's why we've got editors. On the otherhand, SG and the Storm trilogy
certainly demonstrate misty's slipping a little (of course, the dreadline may
have caught up with her)

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:39:52 -0400
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: tone/mood
Message-ID: <199609251939_MC1-9BE-8B2D-+AT+-compuserve.com>


the more I thought about it, the more I agree with those that say misty works
are more "happy" than other fantasy. E.g., Surrender none by Elizabeth Moon
 (can we talk grim, stuff right of russian revolution) Grass by Sheri S. Tepper
(hello! save the world from rampaging Hippae and try to cure a plague) and
the Warrior series by Sharon Green (oooo these books make me want to spit
- has anybody read them? thinking about them causes rage to well up and 
rrrrrrrrr!!!! claw and bite) are just some examples of 'grim' fantasy (oops, almost
forgot the Bloodsong series by Asa Drake, was described as the 'heavy metal'
of fantasy in one of the blurbs)

Actually, Misty's tone is more middle of the road. Unicorn creed by Elizabeth
Scarborough and The Unlikely ones by Mary brown are as close to fluff as
most fantasy (not counting the Myth series by Asprin - sickeningly fluffy) gets.
She's also not much on the sex thing (hawks spiralling into the sun?!?! can't
she just say they both climaxed at the same time?) Of course, for erotica
most people I know re-read Valley of Horses and Mammoth Hunters.
I still think if you took out the flint-knapping and the sex the whole series
would be 600 pages long. . .

just my $.02

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:46:37 -0500
From: Claris Smith <ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Kermit/JinxHi/Topics/Storm bks/Aus/OiB
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960926004637.008d8994-+AT+-comp.uark.edu>


>Firemist
>
>ps Kermit with feathers in his hair (er, green fuzz)? but miss piggy
doesn't have
>feathers  (puzzled look)


<ahem> Sorry, Jaguar and I are big fans of the character Kermit on Kung Fu:
The Legend Continues. (Hey! How many other shows feature mercenaries and
priests as main characters?!)  And actually Miss Piggy wears a feather boa
sometimes! <dismayed giggle> Helllp!!!!! <---obviously.

OriGami, we discuss lots of books, it's just that with the SB release nobody
can shut up about it. (Note that this is *my* first mention of it, IIRC!)  I
haven't weighed in because--erk--well, I didn't like the Storm books that
much.  Oh, they're good fantasy books, better than 90% of the rest, but...I
never went mad for any of the characters, never became really compelled by
any of the storylines, never tried to figure out just how I'd sketch the
scenes or people...

THEY WERE GOOD, ok? Don't get upset!  They just weren't great.  Still, I
will read SB, and considering that otherwise I am reading virtually no
fantasy at this point, that's saying a lot.  

Hth., I liked Jinx High too.  <shrug> It was enjoyable, what can I say.

Who was it that was going to avoid attending my school? Well, good news. I
was wrong about the 4 tests.  One of them was today! (ooooooooops) It was in
Chinese.  Gods.

I know there are a number of "Austral'a'in" (to borrow the QO group phrase)
listmembers are out there...anybody know of any Australian sf or comics
conventions? Please e-mail me privately if you do.  =)

Alrighty!  I'd better make it official!
YES, I want to be One in Black! Sure, I don't wear all black every day any
more, but I'm still rarely without some black somewhere (and keep your
cliched-artist and cliched-Gen-X remarks to yourself!<weg>).  Recruit me!
Recruit me!


       *Claris Smith: Art/History Major, GM, sf/fantasy Artist, Gung Fu Student*
*      "ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu"            "http://comp.uark.edu/~ccsmith/"
*
"Whoa, what is that, Kermit, an elephant handgun?" "Gotta protect my disks."
(KF--tLC)


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:55:55 -0400
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: Reply to: Jinx High
Message-ID: <199609252056_MC1-9C0-4AE5-+AT+-compuserve.com>

Hey, don't look at me, I liked it too. Of course, given that I grew up in
Bartlesville OK which is an hour from Tulsa on the Jenks side, I thought
it was neato-frito just because I knew all the places in it

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:26:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jake <rynath-+AT+-webspan.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: ESCAPISM Reality/Fantasy
Message-ID: <199609260226.WAA14371-+AT+-orion.webspan.net>

Kaatje wrote (quite well..):

>Everybody needs to escape from reality.  That's what books and fantasy 
>worlds are all about--that needed and necessary break from everyday 
>life.  When I talk about "escaping" I'm talking about people who have 
>focused so entirely on their fantasy worlds that they've given up on 
>workig on their own lives.  (And I've me a few people like that, so I 
>know what I'm talking about.)

*shudder* Have you ever done Live Action Role Playing? *grin* I've met MANY
people who sadly think they ARE their characters.  To the extent of nothing
else.  And sadly, from my experience, it's from those DWWG's (Damned White
Wolf Games).  My friend David was like that with Vampire: The Masquerade.
It was *scary*... he thought first he was a vampire, then a werewolf.
Running around on all fours, and calling it "practicing for the game" kind
of made us wonder about him.  I kind of edge away from people like that.

>Case in point:  My sister read AotQ last year, and she wanted to be 
>Herald so passionately that she lost all interest in her day to day 
>life.  She spent all her time daydreaming about being Chosen, and she 
>gave up on working out all of her real-life difficulties.  This was not a 
>good situation at all, especially since she was severely depressed, and 
>this fantasy world made an all-too-convenient escape for her.

Judy Louvis of Queen's Own was telling Arielle and I about things like that.
About how people *believe* that there's a Valdemar, somewhere, with
Companions, and Heralds, and Bards.  And they ask Misty how to get there.
(Misty calls them "cosmic muffins.") 

>Am I making any sense here?  I don't really think anyone on this list 
>qualifies as "trying to escape life" under my definition.  We all seem 
>pretty grounded in reality, 

Well, grounded in fantasy with a neccessary grip on reality in some cases.. ;)

I am heavily into fantasy, and, if you gave me the television or a new
Forgotten Realms book, I'll take the book any day.  Roleplaying is an
important part of what I do.  And if you've ever met Rynath (my Bard
character) in online roleplaying (in Glenshadow's Tavern on WBS) you'll see
he's a lot like me.  I do use fantasy to escape (not Kate's definition of
escape, though).  

But I do know when to draw the line and get down to real life.  Sure, *grin*
it would be nice if there was a Valdemar (heck with that.. if there was a
Kerowyn! *slurp*) but there isn't.  The first rule I learned in the real
life is that you have to Deal With Reality. *grin*

And folks, *grin* I've calmed down from my last post.  No more hissy fits
until the first quarter in January.  

Blessed Be,

Jake


Jake Adamo (rynath-+AT+-webspan.net) 

Mercedes Lackey Information FAQ Administrator
Bard Champion of the Ladies in Green



------------------------------

Date:        Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:54:17 CDT
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Escapism
Message-ID:  <25SEP96.23657267.0053.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

Thanks, Kaatje, you said very much what I had in mind on the whole
escapism thread.
   No, Kalen, you don't have to *apologize* to me for why you do what
you do.  It doesn't offend me.  I worry a little, because I don't think
escapism really helps anyone.  I know, believe me, I've tried it, and I
got locked in a downward spiral that resulted in a number of failed
classes, major debts, and sometimes the inability to get out of bed for
two or three days on end.  But, yeah, I got some great reading done.
   My point is that when I'm relatively sane, I don't read for escape
any more than other people, oh, I don't know, golf for escape.  Yes, it
is something I do for enjoyment, as opposed to scrubbing toilets or
something, which I certainly could do with my time.  But I don't think
of it in terms of being an alternative to "real life." It *is* my real
life -- this is what I do with my spare time, always assuming that I
have some of that.  It's just a difference in perspective, not "my way
is right and what's wrong with you guys?" I just wondered if anyone else
felt the same way.


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:22:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Dutch/Rawn/Tam Lin/spoilers rant/dates/insanity<g>/MageWar/ Mage-Gift/L&W/lots of other stuff/SB Spoilers!!!!!
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.960925222343.9426D-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

> From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>

> Khenta wondered what a dutch gargle sounds like. well, it's a gross 
> description,
> but apt. You know how you make hacking sounds when you've got a cold
> or lot's of sinus drainage and you need to clear your throat (the spit 
> it out clearing
> of throat, not the swallowing). That's the sound. Gross, hunh?

You know, suddenly I'm glad that I don't speak dutch (even though I am
about 1/4 dutch).  <g>

>  Micheal whelan (holy wow, I wish I could do that!!!)
I second Michael Whelan.  That just made me think of something.  There's
a new Melanie Rawn mailing list out there for anyone who wants to know.
It just started up, so it's still in the "everybody introduce yourself" 
phase.  It's actually the on-line extension of the new official fan club.
Kind of like if there was a QO mailing list.

=========================================================================
> From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

> Yes, you do meet Tannim in Jinx High.  He's the young sensitive with the
> green eyes who has the guts to ask Diana to dance at the Spring Fling or
> whatever, then has a heart attack when the magic starts flying.  You
> know, the one that Diana comments will be a heartbreaker when he gets a
> little older?  That's my Tannim.  Derek mentions him by name at one
> point.  (Which is odd, since his mage mentor *gave* him the name Tannim,
> and if he's not a mage yet, how the heck?  Some kind of dream thing?  Or
> just Misty adding stuff in later on?  My vote's on the latter.)

Yes, when *did* Deke and Tannim become friends?  Aren't they seniors 
in JH?

> It's not Terri Lee, is it, the cover artist?  What's her name?  I can't
> believe I've drawn a blank of this magnitude.  

It's Jodi Lee.  Boy Heather, the things that happen when you get old, 
huh? <wegsrlh> *

* - <weg>, sheep, and run like hell  <g>
> 
> Yes, funny enough, a LOT of my problem with Tam Lin (the Pamela Dean
> novelization) was that NOTHING -+AT+-#^#$#! HAPPENED UNTIL THE LAST THIRTY
> PAGES.  Now, I'm into character-driven in a big way.  But the characters
> have to be *driving to someplace.* Driving around in circles does not
> count.  And they were so bloody pretentious, always on about Christopher
> Marlowe and other Highly Intelligent things.  I just kept thinking,
> "Don't these people play D&D?  Basketball?  Yahtzee?  Do ANYTHING but
> critique Shakespearean productions?" I would have been so bored with
> these people in five minutes in real life.  Whoops, come to think of it,
> I guess I was in the book, too.

Oh, I agree with you holeheartedly.  I just kept thinking, "What does
any of this have to do with Tam Lin?"  I didn't even come close to 
guessing the Thomas Lane connection until it was shoved in my face.

I really sympathize with the athletic roomate, Tina.  Not that I'm
athletic, but I'd feel left out too.  If all of my friends/roomates
were constantly acting lofty, quoting Shakespeare constantly, I'd 
be a bit annoyed.  And yes, I think that they were all soooooo
pretentious.   Overall, I'm firmly with you on this one Heather.

===========================================================================
> From: "Kristin A. Ruhle" <kristin-+AT+-rahul.net>

> Can I make one request? Limit SB spoiler threads to general discussions of 
> the plot, please...don't reveal which characters *die*. You see, I (and 
> probably some other people) get the list in digest mode, and avoiding 
> spoiler threads outright is difficult. A better idea might be "teaser" 
> threads that keep the discussion going and reveal just enough to 
> *interest* those who haven't read it.

<rant>
Honestly, that's very unfair to the rest of us.  The reason that we're all
here is to discuss Misty.  We've been starving for something to really
talk about since we got done with SR ( I refuse to count SG ).  Most of
the people writing spoilers put it in the subject line, and add Spoiler
space.  Even on digest (which I *have* been on before), it's not really
that difficult to say "oh look, a lot of space.  I better scroll down 
to where the next message begins."  As for spoilers that aren't clearly
labeled as such, they're a problem for everyone, not just those on digest.
I for one was annoyed when I accidentaly discovered an event from the 
last chapter of SB in a post that had the subject line correct, but no
spoiler space.  

"Teasers" would just be aggravating for most involved.  Why say "Darkwind
and Elspeth help something happen to Tremane," when you can just say
what happened.  It's just too limiting.

</rant> (or as close to one as I really get <g>)


========================================================================
> From: 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> (Kalen/Jason)
> 
> Is Storm Breaking out in the States then?
> When did this happen? I only left there on 9/29.
> This means ? I have to put a special order in for the thing now
> [humph, mutter , mutter]

Jay?  That doesn't make sense.  Today is only the 25rh.  You can't have
left on the 29th.  IIRC, the first sightings were on Fri the 13th.  Ooh, 
spooky. <g>

=========================================================================
Re: Firemist's bout of temporary insanity (from Fat Alberich)

Umm, Firemist?  Rozanna?  I think that you need to seek professional help.
Really.  <g>

==========================================================================
> From: Pat Armetta <parmetta-+AT+-kent.edu>

> I need help:  I subscribed to the MageWar list and they sent me
> information, well they thought they did.  They sent me a
> *Rasslefratzin'* blank page.  Could someone please send me info about
> it.  Also, are the Ones in Black (OIB) defunct?  If so, can I
> ressurect them? Pleease!?!

For MageWar info, check out Jaguar's page, http://www.sidwll.edu/~rholsen
, and take a look at the MageWar Archives link.  (Funny, isn't it Jag, how
we all remember the base URL, but never the actual Archive URL?)

And no, tOIB are not defunct.  Jenna/Stormcloud, Kalen/Jason, and Kory are
still around.

============================================================================
> From: undine <stafford-+AT+-iac.net>

Other stuff re: mage-gift fading snipped

> "I can't do everything," Darkwind admitted, with a touch of 
> annoyance..."I haven't actively worked magic in years, and my memory of 
> what to do is a little foggy. My magical skills are-well-as stiff as 
> muscles get if not exercised regularly. And, the Mage-Gift fades if not 
> used."
> 
> So while Darkwind is able to regain his abilities, it appears that the 
> Gift will totally fade if not used. Which brings me back to my question- 
> how long does it take for the Gift to fade since Darkwind hadn't 
> used his in years and was able to recover his abilities?

This whole thing about whether or not mage-gift fades or can be 
blocked has been bugging me.  Didn't Starwind tell Vanyel that
his Mage-Gift couldn't be taken away, and would just use him,
if he didn't use it?  Yet we have Darkwind's mage-gift fading,
and Shin'a'in shaman are able to block it.  What gives?

========================================================================
> From: Wintershard <peallen-+AT+-naz.edu>

> Here's an ObMisty for any and all. How was the Bardic Voices series? I
> only read the Lark and the Wren and thought it was pretty good.

I really liked L&W, but Robin and Kestrel didn't do much for me.
And I'm just not interested enough to go after E&N or CoC.

You know, I really only enjoyed part of L&W, when I think about it.
For some reason, once the magic stuff was brought in, it began to go
downhill for me.  I just don't think it added much to the story.  
The rest has Misty Character Development.  The magic felt tacked on to
me.  All IMHO, of course.

========================================================================
> From: Disney <JES001-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>

> I've been re-reading the Mage Winds books (for lack of anything new to read)
> and noticed where, in WoF, Vanyel tells Elspeth that Gwena is 'Grove-born'.
> He also said that there was something special about groveborn that was not
> about the normally born Companions..
> And, we know that the Grove-Born have _some_ special characteristics..
> After all, in Arrows Flight Talia was picking on Skif about the ability
> of Grove born to be 'fertile'...
> What exactly ARE the special characteristics of a Grove Born companion?
> Is it ever really mentioned? If so, in what book?

Well, the MOC's abilities (the ones that the Heralds know, anyway) are
listed in the Orientation scene in AotQ.  Never aging, can survive death 
of Chosen, male, and always gives name.  Of course, this may not apply
to other grove born (I think it's obvious the the all male thing doesn't).

> Also, I was wondering how many books Misty DID write about Valdemar and
> related areas...I've read LHM, AotQ, and the mage winds..And I know
> about the new storm winds or mage storms or whatever...but what singles 
> were put out?

The Velgarth series and books are: Mage Wars, LHM, Vows and Honor, Arrows,
By the Sword (the Kerowyn one), Mage Winds, and Mage Wars.  Plus quite a
few Tarma&Kethry stories in the S&S anthologies.  And _Stolen Silver_, a
short story about Alberich.

==========================================================================
> From: Daniel B Delgado <origami-+AT+-grove.ufl.EDU>

> Well even though this seems like a Mage Winds and Storms mailing list
> going to ask a few questions on some of her other books.  Now in a series
> of books that she wrote with a couple of other authors Magic went by way
> of the voice mostly though there was magic of the dead and sorcery. The
> main characters though were Bards...I don't think it was Bardic Voices
> though but I can't remembe rthe name of the books.  Also did she ever do
> one of the Wing Commander Novels and was it worth the read?

The Bard thing sounds like it could be Bard's Tale (though I haven't read 
any of them, so I couldn't say).  She did do a WC novel or two, but
haven't read them either.

===========================================================================
> From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

> Subject: Advice to Writers

This title, I could just see it as a filk.  "Advice to Would-be Writers,"
or "Advice to Young Writers."  Sung by Leslie Fish or HA, of course. <g>

> One related question: What's wrong with the timelines in the books?  I
> don't remember ever looking at them very closely.  It doesn't seem like
> getting the books in chronological order would be very difficult --
> except for By the Sword, which takes place before, during, and after
> Arrows.  Where do you put that?  But anyway, why should wossisname be
> torn apart by kyrees, wilk or otherwise?

I think that some people just expect too much accuracy from it.  IMHO,
it's there to give us a general sense of the time period of the series,
and to show us what period(s) new novels show up in.  (Like, Owlflight
could have been in Roald's reign, for all we knew, except it's listed
under Selenay.)  It's not to figure characters' exact ages from.

=========================================================================
> From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
> 
> At 09:29 PM 9/24/96 +0100, Mat the Cat in Green wrote:
> >
> >***********************Storm Breaking Spoilers Below**********************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >============================================================================
> >What shamanistic magic is really used?  Or preistly for that matter?
> >
> An'desha is SUPPOSED to be learning shamanistic magic.  Karal SUPPOSEDLY has
> access to priestly magic (Solaris definitely does).

Yeah, SUPPOSED to.  We don't really see any of it in action. (And I don't
think that Karal talking to Vkandis is a priestly "magic".  An ability,
yes.  Magic, no.

> In my copy Owlflight is in the lower lefthand corner, not on the timeline at
> all--but the artwork, maps, etc. are not present and/or complete in my copy.

In mine, it's listed under SB, with an extra line separating them.  The
map is the same as  in SR.  The pictures, well, some of them are okay.
But Misty needs to check Larry's spelling.  He misspells Kal'enedral in a
caption (comes out as "Kal'enedril"  At first, I thought it might be the
name of the Shin'a'in God.  No such luck.)

> >Danya?  Two things.  What made you think of Florian as an Avatar-type, and
> >where did Van recognize him?

Danya's explanation snipped.

I just don't see Avatar-hood or familiarity from Van on Florian's part.
He seems to be an ordinary Companion, who's maybe just been around lots of
times.  As for his nervousness Re:Yfandes, she may just be like a 
Companion hero.  Like a Herald might react to seeing Van.  


===========================================================================
Firemist wrote:

> Iftel. . . If the barrier was set up by Vkandis why was it so hard on 
> Karal? There
> was all this talk in SR about how the *real* priests were ecstatic in Vkandis'
> prescence when the False Son was destroyed. So wouldn't Karal feel the same?
> I know that Karal never wanted Vkandis' full, undivided attention, but . . .

I don't think that he actually encountered Vkandis as the Border.  More
like he met a semi-sentient Guardian who Vkandis set to administer the
Barrier.  One thing funny about the Barrier BTW.  SB makes it seem as if
the Barrier was always there, not letting anyone in.  But in one of the
other books, it states that the Iftel Border was perfectly normal, until
Ancar tried to attack.  Then it went into Barrier mode.  It's a bit
of a discrepancy.

> another thing, valdemar representatives in Iftel. only merchants and 
> mercenaries
> felt comfortable there (or stayed longer than two seconds)?!? I thought 
> valdemar
> didn't have a mercenary guild despite the bolts being there. I mean, first 
> Selenay's dad was killed by mercenaries, then Kerowyn had a hard time getting 
> hired, then Ancar died, so what need does valdemar have for mercenaries? 
> they've got a large standing army and the heralds . . . hmmm I'm confused
> now.

Huh?  Mercenaries weren't Valdemar reps in Iftel.  The Mercenary Guild
isn't even allowed there, according to SB.


Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,   |"I looked across the battlefield, blood
Adept, and God of Procrastination| seeping from my wounds. My comrades, 
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu       | they did never yield. For courage 
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| knows no bounds." - Heather Alexander      



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:39:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: philip dancause <dancause-+AT+-erols.com>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>
Subject: Escapism
Message-ID: <199609260339.XAA26824-+AT+-smtp1.erols.com>

Heather wrote:

> Am I the only person in the world who doesn't read fantasy to escape
>from real life?  I happen to like life okay, thanks, but I'm crazy about
>fantasy, too.  It seems like every time I talk to fantasy fans, they say
>something about real life being boring or depressing or otherwise
>unappealing, and that they read fantasy to get away from it.  Really, is
>there anyone else out there that does *not* feel this way?  Because I'm
>really beginning to feel like a bit of a freak here.
>
I agree with you.  I find that fantasy adds another dimension to my
enjoyment of reality.  You know that old saying- "you learn something new
every day"  Well I found that I learn something new from every book.  Sure,
life can be a downer sometimes, but that's not the only reson to read.

:)
Ami


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:39:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: MageWar/Godhood
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.960926003452.27649A-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

On Wed, 25 Sep 1996 ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com wrote:

> Could someone tell me what MageWar is about? And how you subscribe? It sounds
> interesting, maybe something I might want to join. 

The MageWar is a group story/roleplaying game that a lot of listmembers
are involved in.   That's where you see more of our personas, and the 
groups we're part of.  For more specific info, check out Jaguar's page at
http://www.sidwell.edu/~rholsen .  She keeps the list archives, which
means most of the posts ever made to the Wars.

To subscribe to the Mage-war list, send a message with a blank subject
line (or, since you're on AOL, "No Subject") to 
majordomo-+AT+-sorsha.dassin.org

with the line
subscribe mage-war

in the body of the message.  Don't put anything after the word mage-war
though.

Messages to the list are sent to mage-war-+AT+-sorsha.dassin.org


Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,   |"I looked across the battlefield, blood
Adept, and God of Procrastination| seeping from my wounds. My comrades, 
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu       | they did never yield. For courage 
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| knows no bounds." - Heather Alexander      


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:14:10 -0700
From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: SB Spoilers!!!!!
Message-ID: <199609260514.WAA19042-+AT+-latimes.com>

At 04:37 AM 9/26/96 +0100, Mat the Cat in Green wrote:
>> >
>> >***********************Storm Breaking Spoilers Below**********************
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >============================================================================
>> >Danya?  Two things.  What made you think of Florian as an Avatar-type, and
>> >where did Van recognize him?
>
>Danya's explanation snipped.
>
>I just don't see Avatar-hood or familiarity from Van on Florian's part.
>He seems to be an ordinary Companion, who's maybe just been around lots of
>times.  As for his nervousness Re:Yfandes, she may just be like a 
>Companion hero.  Like a Herald might react to seeing Van.  

Sorry.  I forgot the Avatar part of that question (has to do with trying to
type while a three-week-old baby is screaming for me to feed him :/).  What
made me think along those lines is that Florian acts in a very
un-Companion-like way with Karal but rather in a very Avatar-like way (such
as what we see with Dawnfire and An'desha).  Florian does not have a Chosen,
and Karal is not his Chosen.  Yet Florian talks to Karal and tells him
things that most Companions never dream of telling their Heralds.  He seems
to know--and is willing to pass on--lots of information about deities that
is usually only evidenced by Avatars.  As far as we know, Florian is not
Grove born, yet he's certainly not your average Companion, at least in his
dealings with Karal.  What was the book that commented about Gwena (or was
it one of the other Companions?), how she was some sort of major Guardian
spirit or something like that?  And Gwena's really the only other Companion
who has demonstrated anything like Florian's strange behavior.  I don't
know.  It just struck me that way.

You might be right about the stuff with Van and Florian.  The details (what
we have of them) are certainly neither here nor there.  There's just
something about the scenes though, when I recall them, that is nagging at
me, reminding me of something from LHM, but I can't put my finger on it.  I
think whatever it is has been coloring my interpretation of SB.
>
Danya


------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 845
*********************************