MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 851 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) KELTIA meets VELGARTH by Rozanna McNeer 2) Re: KELTIA meets VELGARTH by "Katherine M. Brielmaier" 3) Re: KELTIA/Moving to Velgarth/Evil RPers by Claris Smith 4) Re: KELTIA meets VELGARTH by "E. Angell" 5) Re: KELTIA meets VELGARTH by "E. Angell" 6) Re: The Big Move to Velgarth by Jaguar 7) RPG/L&C/Keltia/tithes/SB SPOILERS!!!!! by Mat the Cat in Green 8) Re: The Big Move to Velgarth by Mat the Cat in Green 9) SB Spoiler! by Rozanna McNeer 10) Re: Braid:/Religious freaks/keltia by "E. Angell" 11) SORRY! by Shaun Rodger 12) Re: The Big Move to Velgarth by Queen of the Darned 13) Re: The Big Move to Velgarth by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" 14) RE: The Big Move to Velgarth...Minor SB SPOILER by Debra Cebulski 15) Dragon*con/SB SPOILERS!!!!! by Mat the Cat in Green 16) Re: Braid:/Religious freaks/An'sesha by jmacjm19-+AT+-vcomm.net (gar&julie mclaughlin) 17) Monks/Firesong by "Hth." 18) Re: KELTIA meets VELGARTH by Ailsa Reid 19) Re: Monks/Firesong by Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-BAYLOR.EDU 20) TOIB[ joining] by 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 21) Re: Hell-bound RPGer's by Jake ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 16:20:49 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: KELTIA meets VELGARTH Message-ID: <199609291629_MC1-9EA-F90B-+AT+-compuserve.com> Raindancer said something like 'i'm speaking in cliches, shoot me now!' Well, guess what - if we shot everyone that spoke in cliches we'd be hip-deep in dead shin'a'in and we'd also have to shoot Misty for *writing* them! Guess you'll just have to suffer re fav. keltia series -> definately Aeron, but chiefly because while i lived in Holland I couldn't *find* any of her new ones, so I'm missing books 2 and 3 from the Arthur series. Pout. and I can't find them here in new or used bookstores! AUGH!!! Hmmm - here's an idea. Keltia meets Guy Gaverial Kay! That one might work. . . Firemist, procrastinating while philosophy paper is spreading 'guilt' vibes at her ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 96 16:08:10 CST From: "Katherine M. Brielmaier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: KELTIA meets VELGARTH Message-ID: <69550.brie0030-+AT+-gold.tc.umn.edu> On Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:16:08 +0100 (BST), E. Angell wrote: I wrote: >> but even at her best, I don't think ML is in the same league with >> Kennealy-Morrison. Sorry for the treason guys! Off with my head! > >They're hard to compare because they're just so *different*. Which is >good, 'cause sometimes I get tired of one style or the other. Variety is >the spice of life. (Dear Goddess, I'm actually using cliches. Somebody >shoot me & put me out of my misery) I'm just in a crappy mood 'cause I >start school tomorrow. BTW, what Keltia trilogy do you like best? >The Aeron books are definetly *my* favorites. > Absolutely. Especially The Silver Branch, since for me it has a much more "fantasy" kind of feel, rather than SF. But the Tales of Arthur are pretty dang good too. I love how Kennealy even changed their dialect to give it an older sound. You definitely believe this was a LONG time before Aeron's era. Can't wait for Blackmantle! And the Tales of Brendan!! ObMisty: uhhh, uhhh....(come on, kiddo, think!...) Back to that earlier thread we had about Valdemar's level of technology (i.e. pre-industrial revolution) but the fact that everyone in Haven was a modern-day "enlightened" individual. I wonder if a lot of that kind of thinking is the God/Goddess influence...I mean, having a pretty direct connection to a deity has to provide a lot of reassurance, wouldn't you think? I mean, the reason we're so "enlightened" (And I use the term *very* loosely) is that we understand much more about the world around us--providing *us* with a little reassurance. That "comfort zone" probably enables us to be a *little* more tolerant of what we don't understand, since we tend to view things scientifically, rather than with automatic fear or hatred. I'm not saying we've managed to overcome our instinctive fear of the unknown--not by a longshot we haven't--but I think people are a little less fearful of what we don't understand, mostly because there are so many things that we are able to understand *now* that we couldn't before. So to circle back round to my point...Valdemar (and Velgarth as a whole) seems to be pretty much pre-industrial right now (putting aside Natoli's experiments for the moment). You would expect them to be much more fearful of the unknown, since there is so *much* that they can't explain--like natural phenonmena, etc. Yes, they can attribute some of it to magic, but mostly they just accept the unusual with astonishing placidity. My guess is that their connection with their deity/deities is what helps them through all of this crazy stuff. Of course, what's really weird for us is obviously old hat to them anyway, so maybe that renders my whole point moot. Well, at least it was a thought! 's e do bheatha, Kaatje ********************************************************* Silence is the Door between Love and Fear; and on Fear's side, there is no latch. --D. Duane ********************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 16:26:08 -0500 From: Claris Smith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: KELTIA/Moving to Velgarth/Evil RPers Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960929212608.008dda2c-+AT+-comp.uark.edu> Firemist wrote: >re fav. keltia series -> definately Aeron, but chiefly because while i lived in Holland I couldn't *find* any of her new ones, so I'm missing books 2 and 3 from >the Arthur series. Pout. and I can't find them here in new or used bookstores! >AUGH!!! I've never heard of this writer! I think I will have to check this out. Yay! >Firemist, procrastinating while philosophy paper is spreading 'guilt' vibes at her heh heh. I would *never* do that. Anyway, back to the mass migration. I don't have a SigO or a great career or anything, but there are people who need me... If I had my Herald's powers (Mindspeech, uhhhh... Farsight...uhhh...can't remember the 3rd one) it would be a heck of a tough call, though. When I was a little kid I always wanted to go away to Narnia or wherever, but things are different now, I have a more firm grasp on myself and have created my own role to be in life. Speaking of the RPG thing, there's a really good explanation of the whole mess/rumors that started the situation in a compendium of RPGs called _Heroic Worlds_. Really good for refuting these people with hard facts, not just philosophical/religious theory. I will always remember the time a woman called me and said somebody had come to her house and delivered a copy of my RPG zine, The Dragon Roars, saying it was for her son, and be sure to tell him about the orgy on Saturday. What the hell??!! Fortunately she was pretty calm about it. It was kind of funny, considering most of us were too young to really even date. I've never had anybody go off on me about it, but that's because I don't talk about it a lot. Fayetteville's openminded enough that we have a Student Pagan Assoc. at the University, but everyonce in a while, for example, the chalkings announcing the next meeting or lecture will get defaced or someone else will chalk stuff like "Demon-lovers!" or "You're all going to hell!" (Course, since that person isn't a Registered Student Organization, they're breaking University rules and defacing property) What a crazy world. *Claris Smith: Art/History Major, GM, sf/fantasy Artist, Gung Fu Student* * "ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu" "http://comp.uark.edu/~ccsmith/" * "What is that, Kermit, an elephant handgun?""Gotta protect my disks."KF:tLC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:38:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "E. Angell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: KELTIA meets VELGARTH Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Sep 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote: > re fav. keltia series -> definately Aeron, but chiefly because while i lived in Holland I couldn't *find* any of her new ones, so I'm missing books 2 and 3 from > the Arthur series. Pout. and I can't find them here in new or used bookstores! > AUGH!!! I've been searching (in vain) throughout used bookstores for the books, but my happy library has all six so I just check them out over and over again. I've seen the paperback books in NEW bookstores, but I put off getting them in hopes of finding Paperback copies. > Hmmm - here's an idea. Keltia meets Guy Gaverial Kay! That one might work. . . That might be cool. The "feel" of their books is much more similar. > Firemist, procrastinating while philosophy paper is spreading 'guilt' vibes at her > unfinished homework is *good* at at the guit trip thing, isn't it? Zhai'helleva, 'S e do bheatha, & other nice things, Raindancer (increasingly depressed at the idea of rising at 5:45 and getting in a car, on a ferry and then a bus for 1 1/2 hrs, all so she can be tortured by her professors- starting tomorrow) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:42:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "E. Angell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: KELTIA meets VELGARTH Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Sep 1996, E. Angell wrote: > but my happy library has all six so I just check them out over and over > again. I've seen the paperback books in NEW bookstores, but I put off > getting them in hopes of finding Paperback copies. > ^^^^^^^^^ Arggggh. I meant *used* copies. Jeez, I'm going senile at 15. Raindancer eangell-+AT+-u.washinton.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:57:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Jaguar To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Big Move to Velgarth Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Sep 1996 Soljan-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Would I go if I could? I agree with Heather and the others...if we > couldn't have Gifts, be Heralds, Bards or Healers, what would be the > point? Unless we went to the Collegium as a Blue, it would be pretty > crummy. I couldn't be an engineer either. Now, if we could go and have one > of our existing qualities maginified, would you go? Like, I'm the goddess > of sensitivity, if I could have that magnified to Empathy, I might go. I'm > also a good singer, and I don't sound like a wounded mongoose. I'm not star > material, but I'm good. If I could be an average Bard, I would definately > go. > Would you go if this could happen? > I don't know...I might end up being a Hawkbrother or a Shin'a'in, and that would be good, but I could just as easily end up being a Changechild, and given how NYara was treated, that wouldn't be. Speaking of cats...I GOT A NEW KITTEN!! Woo-hoo! She's a lovely all black except for two white spots on her tummy, and her name is Artemis. My little brother got one too, a smaller (and younger) orange tabby that he's calling....TYGRA! Guess who suggested it. No, on second thought I don't htink I'd like to like in Velgarth. No TV, no e-mail...hey Claris, no Kermit or Methos! AUGH! Methos might like living there, though. --------------------------------- JAGUAR -------------------------------------- Leader of the Cat People "... intimidating. Ex-marine, I understand." Goddess of Large Hunter Cats "I'm an ex-mercenary, I never intimidated Chronicler of the Mage Wars anyone. I killed them." Lady in Green -- Kermit, KF:tLC -----MageWar Archives: http://www.sidwell.edu/~rholsen/magewar/archives.html--- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:09:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat the Cat in Green To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list Subject: RPG/L&C/Keltia/tithes/SB SPOILERS!!!!! Message-ID: > From: Shaun Rodger > Anyone remember that movie where the kid went insane in a RPG, though he > was his charcter, and almost threw himself off the top of the World > Trade Centre? Done more to damage the hobby than anything else, that > movie has..... IIRC, that was "Mazes and Monsters." Saw it years and years ago. It made a friend's parents waaaay paranoid. BTW - Griff, the mucho big sig is not good. It's a pain for digesters, or when braiding. Auntie Mel also says it's a no-no in her Rules of Thumb. ========================================================================== > From: Rozanna McNeer > > Would I go? I don't know. . . can I bring my family and import all my > favorite foods?!? I don't want to live on bread, cheese, fruit, and > meat pies!!!!! HOWL! What about the goose liver? You can't forget that!!! ========================================================================= Summersong wrote: > Okay, I just saw a new C.J. Cherryh book -- about Lois and Clark! I just > might start reading her stuff because of that; I love L&C about as much as > I love Trekking. Tell me if anyone's read the book yet, and what others I > should read by C.J. Cherryh. I saw that book in B Dalton and did a double take. Oh, and thanks Summersong! I probably would have forgotten to watch L&C tonight. Can't miss a part 3 episode! ========================================================================== > From: Rozanna McNeer > Hmmm - here's an idea. Keltia meets Guy Gaverial Kay! That one might work. . . Are the Keltia books that good? I almost took a few out of the library once, but I had too many to read, so I put them back. Since I don't read much pure SF anymore, and it sounded like that. > Firemist, procrastinating while philosophy paper is spreading 'guilt' > vibes at her I gratefully accept your tithe Firemist. [The God of Procrastination bows, while reading mail, instead of looking for articles for a research paper.] ====================================================================== > From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" > >---------------SB SPOILER------------------SB SPOILER-------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >About Florian - I'm half way through magic's price, and I still havent > >found anyone to match his description. Is it possible we're wrong about > >Florian knowing Vanyel before hand? > > But I just don't get Van being so danged chatty with > Karal (and I still haven't seen anyone answer my question as to who is the > Karsite priest Van is talking about) My theory about that is that it might be in Friends of Valdemar. We're already getting one Van story (Mark Shepard's one), so why not 2? Maybe it's Misty's contribution (that is, if she's writing a story for it). I can't say that you're right or wrong about the Florian-as-Avatar thing. You could be right, you could be wrong. I still don't see the recongition thing though. And I'd think that he'd be *less* freaked by 'Fandes if he already knew her, not more. Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"I looked across the battlefield, blood Adept, and God of Procrastination| seeping from my wounds. My comrades, mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | they did never yield. For courage http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| knows no bounds." - Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:35:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat the Cat in Green To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Big Move to Velgarth Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Sep 1996, Jaguar wrote: Warning, mostly fluff, sans obMisty ensues. > I don't know...I might end up being a Hawkbrother or a Shin'a'in, That's what I was thinking too. > and that would be good, but I could just as easily end up being a > Changechild, and given how NYara was treated, that wouldn't be. Speaking > of cats...I GOT A NEW KITTEN!! Woo-hoo! She's a lovely all black except > for two white spots on her tummy, and her name is Artemis. My little > brother got one too, a smaller (and younger) orange tabby that he's > calling....TYGRA! Guess who suggested it. Hmmm, I wonder? Ah, Artemis. Teaches me to read my listmail before I ask you a question. Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"I looked across the battlefield, blood Adept, and God of Procrastination| seeping from my wounds. My comrades, mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | they did never yield. For courage http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| knows no bounds." - Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:50:26 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: SB Spoiler! Message-ID: <199609291850_MC1-9F4-13C3-+AT+-compuserve.com> SPOILER SPACE* * * * * SPOILE SPACE * * * * * * * P * O * I * L * E * R * S *******spoiler starting. . . now!******* Umm, re: lose of magic (or at least massive reduction in magic) in Velgarth. Somewhere in one of the books An'desha and the engineers are discussing theories of magic and sources, and *I think* (me-+AT+-home, books on the road with my mom) an'desha says that magic that is 'used' goes back into the void, and then somehow trickles back into the world forming ley-lines and nodes, etc. I wonder how long this process takes and if Velgarth will regain magic this way Can somebody please look it up and tell me if this is a good guess or waaaayyyy out there? Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:51:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "E. Angell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid:/Religious freaks/keltia Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Sep 1996, miyako hirao wrote: > Sara wrote: > >>>Heck, I can recall when I > was first reading the Herald-Mage trilogy when an ex-friendly > acquaintance I'd recomended the series to called me a lesbian Jezebelle > when she realized Vanyel was 'shaych. THEN she expected me to hit on her > every time I saw her...and the religious freaks say fantasy readers > can't stay focused on reality!!!<<< > > Religious freaks are just that -- freaks! I had a former friend, who on the > night of the Christmas concert last year, started preaching to me about > Jesus loves you, God loves you, what-ever-else-the-heck loves you, etc., > because I thought the religious content in the songs were very unrealistic, > and that I considered the Bible to be a nicely written piece of fiction. > She went *off*, and she totally freaked out, because I was of a "weird" > religion (which is, BTW, my own little blend of Shintoism, Wicca, and > Zoroastrism). I know that it's rather strange for her that someone could be > an unbeliever of Christianity, but I think she finally figured out that I'm > not a Satanist. I *CAN'T STAND* people like that. Last year, I was having a...umm...heated discussion with one of my dear classmates. The arrogant little f*ck had the audacity to say that he thought homosexuals and rapists were both at the same moral level. Was ready to rip the little prick's head (or something else) off then & there. Hypocritical, self-glorifying supposedly "good christian" folk of this ilk made me want to puke. The world would be a kinder, freer, more loving place if these people just got a clue, or left. OK, I'll stop ranting now, but I just have a little bit of a problem with sanctimonious pricks like my classmate-from-hell. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > What is Keltia? It sounds really nice. Keltia is basically, "kelts in space" stories set in a star empire inhabited by space-faring ancestors of Earth's Celtic peoples. They are VERY GOOD BOOKS. I hearby command you to go out & read them The author is Patricia Kennealy-Morrison, or just Patricia Kennealy on some of the books. Zhai'helleva, 'S e do bheatha, & other nice things, Raindancer. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 23:50:04 +0000 From: Shaun Rodger To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: SORRY! Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19960929235004.2d1f6a54-+AT+-pop.dial.pipex.com> Sorry about my last post. Forgot to turn the damn sig off!!!! Griffin. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 19:09:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Queen of the Darned To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Big Move to Velgarth Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Sep 1996 Soljan-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Would you go if this could happen? I would definately go. I'm an engineer here, so I would hope to be a blue... though I'd be doing more mechanical engineering type stuff, probably, since as an Electrical Engineer now, there wouldn't be too much for me if I showed up as-is. Computer programming probably wouldn't help either. I would like to do that or be in the Bardic collegium, with the little bit of voice training I've had enhanced. :) It's hard to imagine what that would exactly be like, though... at least I think remembering they had indoor pluming in quite a few of the homes close to Haven. :) Jenny -=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=- "In his house at R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits dreaming..." H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu" -=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=-=#=- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:04:07 -0700 From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Big Move to Velgarth Message-ID: <199609300004.RAA28401-+AT+-latimes.com> At 08:26 PM 9/29/96 +0100, ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com wrote: >Definitely. If I could be a Herald or a Bard I would want to go. My own >singing ability would probably be good enough for an average Bard or >minstrel. If amplified, maybe better. Not so sure I'd want to stay for too >long, though. I'd miss my friends and family. I think I'd rather visit, >instead of moving. Hmm. Let's see. No modern medicine, no central air or microwaves or computers or telephones or cars or airplanes, no grocery stores or simple amenities like disposable diapers or kotex or cotton balls or shampoo or Q-tips or bandaids, no frozen food or really much in the way of canned food, limited access to tap water (never mind hot tap water) outside of places like the Collegium, no gas or electric stoves, no television or movies or easy access to books (outside of the palace library), and the list goes on. Nope. Made up my mind a long time ago: I love studying medieval societies, but no way, no how would I want to live in one ;->! Danya ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 20:16:33 -0400 From: Debra Cebulski To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: The Big Move to Velgarth...Minor SB SPOILER Message-ID: <01BBAE43.1CCD9EA0-+AT+-kerowyn> S P O I L E R S P A C E Count me in! I wouldn't mind being a MindHealer with Mindspeech. Then = again, I wouldn't mind being a Blue Swordsworn either. The idea of = guarding wisdom *does* have its appeal.... However, if I had to have a = Gift like Tremane's earth sense, count me out! It can come in handy = sometimes, but I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Then again, maybe = those types *need* that type of Gift... Also, if anyone has any news on ML appearances *anywhere*, please post. All the best, Deb Cebulski kerowyn-+AT+-waltham.harvard.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 21:57:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat the Cat in Green To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list Subject: Dragon*con/SB SPOILERS!!!!! Message-ID: > From: Debra Cebulski > Also, if anyone has any news on ML appearances *anywhere*, please post. Well, she'll be at Dragon*con in Atlanta in June. Along with a bunch of listmembers. ========================================================================= > From: Rozanna McNeer > SPOILER SPACE* * * * * SPOILE SPACE * * * * * * > * > P > * > O > * > I > * > L > * > E > * > R > * > S > > *******spoiler starting. . . now!******* > > Umm, re: lose of magic (or at least massive reduction in magic) in Velgarth. > Somewhere in one of the books An'desha and the engineers are discussing > theories of magic and sources, and *I think* (me-+AT+-home, books on the road with > my mom) an'desha says that magic that is 'used' goes back into the void, and > then somehow trickles back into the world forming ley-lines and nodes, etc. > I wonder how long this process takes and if Velgarth will regain magic this > way Can somebody please look it up and tell me if this is a good guess > or waaaayyyy out there? Well, I think that I remember that someone says in SB that noone knows what happens to energy once it enters the Void. I think that the only real source of the energy is life, as in "living things give off energy." Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"I looked across the battlefield, blood Adept, and God of Procrastination| seeping from my wounds. My comrades, mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | they did never yield. For courage http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| knows no bounds." - Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 00:45:18 -0400 From: jmacjm19-+AT+-vcomm.net (gar&julie mclaughlin) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid:/Religious freaks/An'sesha Message-ID: >RAindancer said: >> >I *CAN'T STAND* people like that. Last year, I was having >a...umm...heated discussion with one of my dear classmates. The arrogant >little f*ck had the audacity to say that he thought homosexuals and >rapists were both at the same moral level. Was ready to rip the little >prick's head (or something else) off then & there. Hypocritical, >self-glorifying supposedly "good christian" folk of this ilk made me want >to puke. The world would be a kinder, freer, more loving place if these >people just got a clue, or left. >OK, I'll stop ranting now, but I just have a little bit of a problem with >sanctimonious pricks like my classmate-from-hell. > Dont you just LOVE people like that??? Yah, I love them alright. I'd love to shot them! They absolutely drive me nuts! I'm a pretty polite person, but everytime those religious nutcases show up at my door preaching, my hackles go up. Dont you just love when they say "God loves you and accepts you" but then turn around and say "your going to hell because your gay or something"? I always tell them "Excuse me, But I dont recall anywhere in the ten commandments saying Tho shall not be gay." It does say however "Love your neighbor as you love yourself". It doesnt say "love your neighbor except if they are gay, black, Jewish, Buddist, Pagan, etc." The bible also says "you who have not sinned may throw the first stone." And since everyone has sinned at least once, where does anyone get off on saying "your evil and I'm good". Sounds like hypocrosy to me! And they accuse us of living in a fantasy world! I'm sorry, but anyone who is so devoted to religion that they cant see the world around them is living far more in a fantasy world than we are! At least we can see reality! I'm not saying having faith in God is bad. But as far as I'm concerned, "God gave us a brain so we could use it!" The only person who is supposed to be judging us is God, I'll gladly let him do it! Funny I always thought God wanted us to love unconditionally. So why do so many religions preach hate? No thank you, I'll find my own way. I really dont think God wanted us to be stupid sheep. And just for the record, My aunt is a Roman Catholic Nun. Has been for years. And what does she preach? Tolerance. As far as she is concerned, what you do is between you and god. Figure that. And as for the bible, if you really want to look, you'll notice that a great deal of what is in the bible directly relates to what was going on in that point of history. Take being gay for instance. Alot of that was during the roman era, from people who hated the romans. Or the thing about woman being "ruled by men". Since the bible was writen by men who were monks and scared of woman, of COURSE woman should be ruled my men! "Woman are lustful beings that are created just for childbirth". Yah right! Guys are just as bad in the lustful department and if god just wanted woman for childbirth, we wouldnt have brains! And findings in Isreal suggest there was indeed a goddess that stood with god. And why is that missing? Think we get back to the monks again. No, I'm not down on men in anyway, but back in the old days, they we're rather chavanistic. Just think what would have happened back then if people had a goddess to worship instead of a god? They would probably be alot more sensible! Sorry for the rant folks, but this is something I really feel stongly about. I really agree with Misty on "There is no one, true way". Yes, I'm probably being hypocritical myself, but I get so tired of religious fanatics! And as for "roleplaying" being evil, does that mean every actor and actress that ever lived is evil? They're roleplaying too! -------------------------------- OBMisty (yes, I do have one!) Did anyone notice there is a female "Firesong" in Magic's Price? Could it be the same "Firesong" or did Misty just run out of names? Also, It says in Magics Price that Leareth sent a mage with mage weapons to kill vanyel's parents. We now know from An'desha that Leareth and Ma'ar where the same person. Is it possible that An'desha has the knowledge on how to make those weapons stored in his memory somewhere? And since he is a mage that can create things, couldnt he create these things? Ok, I'll shut up now. Thanks for being patient! Wind to thy wings, Wingsibs! Julie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 00:38:48 CDT From: "Hth." To: Subject: Monks/Firesong Message-ID: <30SEP96.00698479.0032.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> Wow...that makes kind of a weird combo in the subject header, doesn't it? Um, I'm just really curious, where do you get that the Bible was written by monks? The Bible was written by a) Jews and b) Jewish reformers, and AFAIK, the Jewish religion has never advocated separation from the world or lifelong celibacy. Those are Christian ideas. In fact, it was very *important* in the Jewish culture to marry and have lots of children, because the Jews were a small, impoverished (through most of their history) people living on the fringes of various great empires (the word "Jew" itself derives from the Egyptian word for "thieves" -- because the Jewish tribes were nomadic scavengers living in the remote areas of Egyptian rule, and the Egyptians thought they were pretty much the scum of the earth). Survival was of primary importance, and reproduction essential -- the theme comes up again and again in the Hebrew scriptures. Hence the hatred of gays, and barren women, and coitus interruptus, and anything else that got in the way of having lots of children. No flame intended, I'd just say that unless I'm missing some key information here, your hypothesis that the Bible is patriarchal because of monks may not be as, ah, fully researched as you'd like it to be before you go around making it public. (And loving your neighbor isn't in the 10 Commandments. It's a distinctly Christian idea; the Israelites were fiercely tribal and too busy worrying about their own people to expend much energy giving a damn about their neighbors. That's part of why Jesus was considered such a wild-eyed radical.) About the Firesong thing, though. I do remember the female Firesong, and I just assumed that Misty liked the name, so she recycled it as a major character after having stuck it in there for a one-shot earlier. But there is a school of thought that explains homosexuality as some cosmic holdover from being of a different gender in a past life. I don't know, maybe Misty's into that. Maybe that was dropped in there to hint that Firesong used to be a woman, which is why he's now shay'a'chern. That's a thought. Thank you for sharing...whoever shared that. HTH r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu "The madness of demons is rage -- the madness of angels, hope." -- *The Dragon & the Unicorn* A.A. Attanasio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:26:29 +0100 (BST) From: Ailsa Reid To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: KELTIA meets VELGARTH Message-ID: <199609301126.MAA16758-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk> Raindancer said: >On Sun, 29 Sep 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote: (slightly snipped) > >> HTH said something re going to Keltia and being a druid that can use a >> microwave Far as I remember "Druids were not known for their cooking, especially over a quartz hearth on the march" *grin* Thats in _The Hawks Grey Feather_ >> >> Alright, now hear this. The next ship boarding for Keltia will be leaving >from >> the Spaceport nearest you in 2 days! Just enough time to pack and get there >> . The Kelts want *you*. Come and be a Ban-droai, or a Fian, or a Dragon, >or >> a Bard, or a Druid, or be a rich horse-breeder a la Sabia! (hey, no poverty >and >> everyone's assured of havinga job. like, get out of my way!!!) What the >heck, >> shin'a'in welcome provided they bring some horses along > >Wait for meeeeee! Me too!!!!! > LOL! BTW, the new Keltia book is due out this spring. :-) *bounce* *bounce* Now I've got to get through winter somehow *sigh* ObMisty: er...Theres no spaceships or laser swords in Velgarth (and I'd sooner live in Keltia!) <-Heresy though that may be ;> Ailsa ____________________________________________________________________________ | Ailsa Reid | | Take the hidden paths which run, | | areid-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk West of the moon, East of the sun. | | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 09:22:44 -0600 From: Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-BAYLOR.EDU To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.UK Cc: Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-ccis01.baylor.edu Subject: Re: Monks/Firesong Message-ID: Man, I had to respond to this if only to use the subject header. :) >Um, I'm just really curious, where do you get that the Bible was written >by monks? The Bible was written by a) Jews and b) Jewish reformers, and >AFAIK, the Jewish religion has never advocated separation from the world >or lifelong celibacy. Those are Christian ideas. >>Snip<< Okay, I'm not going to challenge any of what has been said or what is said after my editing. I know very little about Jewish theology, and even less about their theologies concerning their sacred literature. What I *do* know is the Bible. Sixteen years of Catholic Education behind me (although admitting to that on this list makes me a little nervous) and a father with a degree in theology who believed in answering all of my "Whyyyy?" questions with the real answers back me up. Hey, I knew one day all those religion and theology classes (not to mention the 9 credit hours in theology) would come in handy some day. All right, my credentials established, I will agree with HTH *up to a point.* The Old Testament was written by Jews. The New Testament was written by Early Christians, most of whom were (probably, but not necessarily) originally Jewish. This may be what HTH means when she refers to "Jewish Reformers." I would like to point out that Paul, whose letters make up the bulk of the New Testament, is the basis for all those spiffy celibacy ideas. He's a nototorious...uh...not-fan of women in general. Although there is evidence of later tampering with the original Epistles, Paul was a Zealot, both in his initial persecution of Christianity and in his later missionary work on its behalf. Zealots don't do things by halves, and they tend to shut out everything but the work. What's more, they expect everyone around them to do the same. So, if Paul gave up women, he believed that every other good Christian should too. (*Insert compulsory "misery loves company" comment here.*) Let me say, though, that I had never considered HTH's reasoning, and find it both insightful and compelling! (God(s), I've been hanging around Acadamia too long!) (And loving your neighbor isn't >in the 10 Commandments. It's a distinctly Christian idea; the >Israelites were fiercely tribal and too busy worrying about their own >people to expend much energy giving a damn about their neighbors. >That's part of why Jesus was considered such a wild-eyed radical.) Well, it's not in the 10 commandments, but the original loving your neighbor commandment is actually in the Old Testament, it's just an obscure and little used reference. It would be like someone dredging up the commandments on diet and trying to convince Christians to follow them. >"The madness of demons is rage -- the madness of angels, hope." > -- *The Dragon & the Unicorn* A.A. Attanasio Very cool .sig!!! Well, that's all from here for now. Got lots of mail to slog through. (Eesh, I pay for my weekends....) -Icewolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:41:16 +0100 From: 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: TOIB[ joining] Message-ID: To anyone who asked about joining The Ones In Black over the weekend[27th -30th] Please Mail me private mode as I did not recieve any mail. I was deleted from the list for some strange reason. The only mail I have had to date is from Griffin, some one with the addy parmetta-+AT+-kent.edu and ShadowJaz. Anyone else who mailed or wants to mail the addy is 95662014-+AT+-MMU.AC.UK Do not mail to the list Stormy can you mail me with any other addys that you may have from those remaining from last year[ pre-summer] Thank you kindly[ Sorry to list for this message] ************************************************ Zha'hai'allav'a Kalen Shena Vuysher'edras Kal'enedral [OIB](AKA Jason Stokes) 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk "If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended. That you have but slumbered here While these visions did appear". *Puck, Midsummer Nights Dream* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:50:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Jake To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Hell-bound RPGer's Message-ID: <199609301450.KAA11198-+AT+-orion.webspan.net> Firemist wrote: >Well, if we are all doomed to go to hell for RPing, I say 'who wants to go to >heaven anyway?' Can't drink, can't have sex unless your procreating, probably >don't let you eat chocolate since everything else fun means your >instanteously hell-bound. . . So, pack up your dice, grab a bag of your >favorite >junk food, and converge on some poor slobs house and RP in their living room >until they go crazy! Hell? Heaven? What are those? (Innocent Pagan Smile) Interesting tidbit on the topic of roleplaying and persona stuff, by the way: I was reading a back issue of WIRED and there was an article inside entitled Who Am We? which discussed life in cyberspace, specifically MUD's and MUSH'es. It drew a parallel or two to our discussion, if you extend MUD to Role Playing (which are the same thing, basically). If you're really interested in seeing it it's in the January 1996 issue of WIRED. No e-text on it. Sorry. However, in the article it says that personae are simply an extension of the self. And the basic line it comes out saying is that if you go into the game with a "self healthy enough to grow from relationships, the games can be very good. If not, you can be in for trouble." The latter case is what I was talking about in my previous postings. I'm talking about people you KNOW are hopelessly mundane not ready for roleplaying and losing it. If you ever see someone going through that change, it is very scary and quite depressing. And there's a fine line between quaint character fantasy color in real life and Stark Raving Looney. I have color; but I'm two inches away from people thinking me crazy. Like I said before, my fantasy life is a rich part of my real life. It adds color to what I do during the day, and yes, sometimes the line blends between my main character and I, basically because it's a glorified extension of myself. But I know when to stop. Heather wrote: > I don't know, though. The problem with so many gamers is that once >they get two seconds of your time, they're telling you how cool their >character is, and all the cool things they've done. Hey, my characters >are damn cool, but I'm not going to bore some stranger in a games shop >with their life stories. Indeed! *grin* I'll tell a piece perhaps, as an anecdote, but usually it's to a fellow gamer and it's stuff like "All right. Cypher (my techie character in Cyberpunk) was trying to fix the air conditioner.. and I rolled a fumble! And then I rolled a fumble again! So the spaceship blew up.." (Actual story.) Not "Well, Cypher grew up on the streets of.. and at 16 he.." >Don't these people have *friends* for that kind of thing? If I want to >tell someone how cool Ian is, I'm going to rant to Barbara about it. >I'm not going to grab some poor schmuck who's just trying to buy a >Changeling supplement. *grin* I saw this when I used to work in a games shop up here. Poor roleplayers would be cornered. And I couldn't get away, because I worked at the damned place... Jake Jake Adamo (rynath-+AT+-webspan.net) Mercedes Lackey Information FAQ Administrator Bard Champion of the Ladies in Green I've got S&S III -- And you can't have it! Ha ha haa! "I'm the bread, the wine, the joker, the pilgrim, the promise divine" -- Serious Pilgrim, "Marrying the Metal Sculpture" ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 851 *********************************