MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 852 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: RPGs by Jake 2) Filk! by Jake 3) Fantasy worlds / If I could go to Valdemar by Jake 4) Re: Filk! by Mat the Cat in Green 5) Biblical stuff (off-topic but mercifully brief) by "Hth." 6) Re: Biblical stuff (off-topic but mercifully brief) by Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-BAYLOR.EDU 7) re: The Big Move to Velgarth by Khenta Blaufalk 8) the big move by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu 9) About Florian's ID by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 10) Re: Fantasy worlds/Filk interpretations by Soljan-+AT+-aol.com 11) Re: Fantasy worlds/Filk interpretations by Mat the Cat in Green 12) just a humble 3-liner *gryn* by aw2-+AT+-mail.idt.net (Kimberly) 13) universal morality by Rozanna McNeer 14) DiCaprio and Dane by Mannaheim 15) Keltia? by Mannaheim 16) Re: Biblical stuff (off-topic but mercifully brief) by Catherine Osborne 17) sympathy for the college application club by em 18) Morals, "special friends", and Blue SS by Mannaheim 19) Evil applications and other such stuff... by haineca-+AT+-earlham.edu 20) Velgarthian Religion by Mat the Cat in Green 21) Reply to: Re: Biblical stuff (off-topic but mercifully brief) by Rozanna McNeer 22) Re: Braid: Mates/age/gay/religion/prophecies by "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" 23) Morals, special friends by "Hth." 24) College? ACK! / Florian by Mannaheim 25) I know, I know...its the wrong place by Mannaheim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:54:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Jake To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: RPGs Message-ID: <199609301454.KAA11633-+AT+-orion.webspan.net> Our Beloved Listmistress wrote: >Someone (lost in the swirling mists of my mailbox) asked if people really >do look oddly at you if you admit to being a roleplayer. 'Bout all I can >say is "yes, they certainly do..."; I'd like to think that people look oddly at me because I wear tunics on my days off, not because I'm a roleplayer, although I suppose they go hand in hand.... >I've developed several useful ways of >explaining my major hobby at job interviews and the like. (Most of my >non-roleplaying friends accept it as part of my general strangeness :)) Hey! I explained it as.. (/serious) as improvisational theatre. *grin* And it worked. Think, Commedia Dell'Arte (spelling is atrocious)--set characters trying to reach a set goal with only a bit of the plot and a couple of good lines laid out. Sure, there's rules for RP, but there's rules for the stage also. And LIVE ACTION stuff, that's more theatre than RP at times (can we say THEATRE OF THE MIND'S EYE? Even White Woof acknowledges it). And the diceless roleplaying, which I wind up doing, is mostly theatre and common sense. I've used it on interviews for creative positions... Blessed Be Jake Jake Adamo (rynath-+AT+-webspan.net) Mercedes Lackey Information FAQ Administrator Bard Champion of the Ladies in Green I've got S&S III -- And you can't have it! Ha ha haa! "I'm the bread, the wine, the joker, the pilgrim, the promise divine" -- Serious Pilgrim, "Marrying the Metal Sculpture" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:58:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Jake To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Filk! Message-ID: <199609301458.KAA11998-+AT+-orion.webspan.net> Mat wrote: >> From: Rozanna McNeer > >> Obmisty -> wonder why misty has stopped including lists of songs and a >> lexicon in the back of her books. . . (lame, I know) >> > >Maybe the lack of filk is because she hasn't been writing any. *grumble* You beat me to that comeback! *Grin* >Maybe since it seems that she hasn't done any filk >since V&H, it shows that she should be. Now does any of that make any >sense? :) There was SUPPOSED to be a filk album released for the Winds books, but it went down the drain. *siigh* Maybe.... (stretching) maybe becuase what's happening in the recent Valdemar books is what's happening "now" so to speak, and.. and the rest is background stuff. So.. so the filk are just Songs of Legend, and the stuff NOW is too recent to be sung about about by Bards. Sure, the gaping hole in this theory is the Mage War stuff.. but that wasn't heroic enough to be song material anyway. Jake Jake Adamo (rynath-+AT+-webspan.net) Mercedes Lackey Information FAQ Administrator Bard Champion of the Ladies in Green I've got S&S III -- And you can't have it! Ha ha haa! "I'm the bread, the wine, the joker, the pilgrim, the promise divine" -- Serious Pilgrim, "Marrying the Metal Sculpture" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:09:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Jake To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Fantasy worlds / If I could go to Valdemar Message-ID: <199609301509.LAA13183-+AT+-orion.webspan.net> Summersong wrote: >On Fantasy worlds: >I believe that there could be an infinitely many number of worlds out >there, other planets, other dimentions, parallel universes (too much >Trek??), alternate time lines (definitely too much Trek), and many what-if >situations possible. So there could be a Velgarth, Pern, Darkover, Xanth >(shudder), Palenoc, Lenfell, etc. out there, somewhere. Chances are almost >nonexistent that we'll ever get there, but it's nice to think that they >*might* somehow exist. *shudder* No, no no. These places are fictional. FICTIONAL. I really doubt any of the places exist at all. Dimensions and alternate timelines aside. A created fictional universe is not a real place. Could you imagine Misty saying "I didn't write it... a little Companion from Valdemar came and TOLD me all this stuff!" (Which would be a good excuse, I suppose, if anyone complains about why the books are so bad.) I can't agree with you. I'd hate to see if the Citadel was real, anyway.. it sounds like a terrible place, and if Rynath ever found out it was MY fault what happened to him, he'd come after ME! //// All right, that aside, if I could go to Valdemar... I wouldn't. My life is wonderful here in grounded reality, Bardic aside (which, and I'm going to be egotistical, I would have). If I went to Valdemar, I'd have to leave all I loved behind. My books, my friends (well, all the ones that weren't coming WITH me, it seems several of you onlist would be going (which may be an excuse to stay home anyway :P)), my music... aiee. I couldn't give that all up, even to simply live in a completely fantastic fictional world. Jake (who yes, is home today and catching up on email) Jake Adamo (rynath-+AT+-webspan.net) Mercedes Lackey Information FAQ Administrator Bard Champion of the Ladies in Green I've got S&S III -- And you can't have it! Ha ha haa! "I'm the bread, the wine, the joker, the pilgrim, the promise divine" -- Serious Pilgrim, "Marrying the Metal Sculpture" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:43:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat the Cat in Green To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Filk! Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Jake wrote: > Mat wrote: > >> From: Rozanna McNeer > > > >> Obmisty -> wonder why misty has stopped including lists of songs and a > >> lexicon in the back of her books. . . (lame, I know) > > > >Maybe the lack of filk is because she hasn't been writing any. > > *grumble* You beat me to that comeback! *Grin* I know. I just got there first. > >Maybe since it seems that she hasn't done any filk > >since V&H, it shows that she should be. Now does any of that make any > >sense? :) > > There was SUPPOSED to be a filk album released for the Winds books, but it > went down the drain. *siigh* Was there? Hmm, wonder why it went down the drain. > Maybe.... (stretching) maybe becuase what's happening in the recent Valdemar > books is what's happening "now" so to speak, and.. and the rest is > background stuff. So.. so the filk are just Songs of Legend, and the stuff > NOW is too recent to be sung about about by Bards. Sure, the gaping hole in > this theory is the Mage War stuff.. but that wasn't heroic enough to be song > material anyway. What about Arrows? Then again, I guess it could be history type stuff. Esp. it's ten or so years before Winds and Storms. And maybe Owlflight. Hey -- scary thought. Maybe Owlflight will skip years, like Winds did, and we'll have the Royal Twins and Talia's son meeting some Tayledras. Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"I looked across the battlefield, blood Adept, and God of Procrastination| seeping from my wounds. My comrades, mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | they did never yield. For courage http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| knows no bounds." - Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:54:58 CDT From: "Hth." To: Subject: Biblical stuff (off-topic but mercifully brief) Message-ID: <30SEP96.11789688.0060.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> Icewolf, you and I can form a support group for Adultish Children of Biblical Scholars! I picked this stuff up from twenty years at the dinner table with my father, a rather dauntingly intellectual man with a fascination for the Old Testament. Thanks for the corrections; on further reflection you're pretty much right. A nitpicky point would be that Paul did not *really* write most of what has been traditionally attributed to Paul (notice how his "early" stuff is very inclusive, and his "later" writings are more rigid and basically obnoxious). A more relevant line of conversation is that I think there's a whole lot more to the early Christian ideal of celibacy than fear of sex. In fact, in some ways it's really good for women, compared to the mainstream of Near Eastern society at that time -- which includes Jewish, Greek, Roman, and all the other cultures in that area. HOWEVER, the Mistylist isn't really the Time or Place. If anyone wants to keep up the discussion, we can do it over private e-mail. ObMisty: Um. We don't know very much about religion on Velgarth. We know a few dieties, and we know that they want us to be Good People, but that's philosophy and ethics, not religion. We don't know much about ritual or taboos or theology or anything like that. Not that I know where I'm going with this. But there's your ObMisty. Sue me. <3rd Rock from the Sun was on last night, and I always feel especially cavalier after watching Sally. She's so cool.> HTH r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:16:26 -0600 From: Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-BAYLOR.EDU To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.UK Cc: Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-ccis01.baylor.edu Subject: Re: Biblical stuff (off-topic but mercifully brief) Message-ID: > HOWEVER, the Mistylist isn't really the Time or Place. If >anyone wants to keep up the discussion, we can do it over private >e-mail. > > ObMisty: Um. We don't know very much about religion on Velgarth. We >know a few dieties, and we know that they want us to be Good People, but >that's philosophy and ethics, not religion. We don't know much about >ritual or taboos or theology or anything like that. I can make it ObMisty!! IcanIcanIcanIcanIcan! How come we see very little sacred literature in Valdemar? We know of the Book of One, quoted liberally by Mero, and of the Karsite Holy Book (the name slips my mind for the moment), but nothing else. If there's this amalgam of faiths in Valdemar, so much so that the students at the Collegium take a Religions course (see Magic's Pawn), how come we don't see any tenets of faith, or writings of prophets, or anything? There. That ought to do it. -Icewolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:03:05 +0200 (METDST) From: Khenta Blaufalk To: Misty mail Subject: re: The Big Move to Velgarth Message-ID: Danya writes re moving to Velgarth: >Hmm. Let's see. No modern medicine, no central air or microwaves or >computers or telephones or cars or airplanes, no grocery stores or simple >amenities like disposable diapers or kotex or cotton balls or shampoo or >Q-tips or bandaids, no frozen food or really much in the way of canned food, >limited access to tap water (never mind hot tap water) outside of places >like the Collegium, no gas or electric stoves, no television or movies or >easy access to books (outside of the palace library), and the list goes on. >Nope. Made up my mind a long time ago: I love studying medieval societies, >but no way, no how would I want to live in one ;->! Weeeeellll, the way you put it, it sounded reasonably horrible. Btw, you forgot the toothbrushes :). [*] But if I was offered the chance, heck, I'd go and live in a Vale (I would be Tayledras, I know I would). Even without magical ability. I could still work with essential oils (if needs be, I'd _introduce_ them to Velgarth :) ), or be an artist, creating feather jewelry. At the moment I don't know if there was so much to hold me here. [*] at least there would be chocolate, or a reasonable substitute (chava) :) Hey, what's up with this list? Just 70 messages from the whole weekend? That I lived to see that day when there's less than 100+ in my mailbox... Not that I don't appreciate to be done with it all in less than 2 hours and be able to go back to my schoolbooks (exam on Friday, shudder). Walk in beauty Khenta Blaufalk aka Skyfire & Aar Goddess of Incomplete Vocabulary and Garbled Grammar =================================================================== Hellrung's Law: If you wait, it will go away. Grelb's addition: ... if it was bad, it will be back. =================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 14:55:36 -0500 (CDT) From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: the big move Message-ID: <199609301955.AA061933336-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu> I'd have to agree with most of the others in that I wouldn't move. There's just too much and too many that I'm attached to here. And, that fact that I'd wind up as a blue is not my idea of a perfect life. Engineering is not for me. But, it would be nice to have some of the gifts here, though. Since I'm doing the psych grad thing (and looking for a part-time clinical job...eeek), empathy and general (mind) healing gifts would be helpful. Oh, well...one can dream. Nina Goddess of Passwords, One-Liners and Sarcasm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 16:27:50 -0400 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: About Florian's ID Message-ID: <9609302027.AA10474-+AT+-water.waterw.com> Sorry if this possibility has already been mentioned, but I'm on Digest, and tend to get a little behind.... With all the discussion of trying to figure out who Florian's human form is, has anyone considered the possibility that it's NOT anyone that we know, and that the description was included just so, in 2 or 3 books time, when we meet a Herald who meets that description we will know that it's the reincarnated Florian? Jeanne Hedge http://www.accsyst.com/jhedge/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 16:54:09 -0400 From: Soljan-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fantasy worlds/Filk interpretations Message-ID: <960930165408_533824444-+AT+-emout18.mail.aol.com> Jake says: << *shudder* No, no no. These places are fictional. FICTIONAL. I really doubt any of the places exist at all. Dimensions and alternate timelines aside. A created fictional universe is not a real place. Could you imagine Misty saying "I didn't write it... a little Companion from Valdemar came and TOLD me all this stuff!" (Which would be a good excuse, I suppose, if anyone complains about why the books are so bad.) I can't agree with you. I'd hate to see if the Citadel was real, anyway.. it sounds like a terrible place, and if Rynath ever found out it was MY fault what happened to him, he'd come after ME! >> This discussion reminds me of the t.v. show _Sliders._ Basically the main characters travel between parallel Earths, always in San Fransico. I love it. =) However, if there were other worlds, I don't think they'd be ones we knew of. If they were from books Windshadow would have some problems with characters going after *her.* She likes to kill off her main characters for drama. And she writes it in well too. My book wouldn't be too much of a prob...I think. Ummm...oh yeah. For anyone who has _Shadow Stalker_- in Web of Light, there's a line that can be interpreted two ways. I'm wondering what you think. It's "A trap to warn of magic that no mortal eyes can see." Now does that mean...a trap that warns of invisible magic or... and invisible *trap* for magic. obMisty- ummmm....gee does that filk count? I don't think so. ummmm...uhh...they don't have the same sports we do on Velgarth. No basketball, softball, tennis, etc. Lady Silvermoon LIG, Leader of the DDMF, Goddess of Sensitivity and Firecat, Cat Person "Don't speak, I know what you're thinking, and I don't need your reasons, don't tell me 'cause it hurts." No Doubt _Don't Speak_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:43:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat the Cat in Green To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fantasy worlds/Filk interpretations Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Sep 1996 Soljan-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Ummm...oh yeah. For anyone who has _Shadow Stalker_- in Web of Light, > there's a line that can be interpreted two ways. I'm wondering what you > think. It's "A trap to warn of magic that no mortal eyes can see." > Now does that mean...a trap that warns of invisible magic or... > and invisible *trap* for magic. I'd say an invisible trap for magic. After all, Web of Light is about the new Web that Van and the Guardians (oooo, good group name :) ) create. > obMisty- ummmm....gee does that filk count? I don't think so. > ummmm...uhh...they don't have the same sports we do on Velgarth. No > basketball, softball, tennis, etc. Why not? Filk in general may not count, but SS is Misty filk. Therefore, a valid obMisty. ,g. Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"I looked across the battlefield, blood Adept, and God of Procrastination| seeping from my wounds. My comrades, mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | they did never yield. For courage http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| knows no bounds." - Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:31:07 -0500 From: aw2-+AT+-mail.idt.net (Kimberly) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: just a humble 3-liner *gryn* Message-ID: >Um, I'm just really curious, where do you get that the Bible was written >by monks? The Bible was written by a) Jews and b) Jewish reformers There's a movie that was made by Roman Polansky (sp?) that featured a vampire. He was Jewish. So this guy that the vamp was about to eat holds this cross out in front of him. Vampire looks at it. Shrugs. *giggle* Thought that would lighten things up a little. :P BTW, is morality universal? Or relative to society/individual? *looks at philosophy binder and creeps closer to Claris, shuddering* ObMisty: has anyone thought about the "special friends" amongst the Holderkin? I wonder if that applies for the males, too; Talia doesn't specify when she mentions it to Keren. Or if their men ~have~ friends at all ::looks lost and sad at the thought:: ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 19:05:00 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: universal morality Message-ID: <199609301905_MC1-9F7-B745-+AT+-compuserve.com> i wouldn't bring such things up, if i were you the philosophy grad student is here to answer themif you really want to know. . . it's my belief that morals are what we learn from soceity and other external sources (hence 'moral of the story', right?) and ethics are the values we as individuals determine to be good or true for us. (yep, morals and ehtics are NOT the same thing) (NB, speaking from Westerner's p.o.v.) In T.S. Eliot's notes towards the definition of culture he maintains that the influence of religion on culture is so strong, that the become the same thing to later generations (i wouldn't know, i believe in deity, but am still looking for a religion that makes sense to me) And if you look at the Bible, you'll see that parts of the 10 commandments have made their way into our legal system (re murder, aldutery, etc) and our values have been shaped by stories from the bible like the good samaritin bit. Now, comparing our culture to Japan, or Saudia Arabia, you'll see differences in their value systems (which Eliot would have us believe started from their religion) like bribing being acceptable in some countries, or placing value on the family above the individual etc. I guess religion is a good reason to explain these different values - i dunno. but if this were the case, then it is amazing that valdemar lived a 1000+ years, isn't it? I'm sure HTH will correct my mistakes and maybe polish it into something readable, or come up with a new view. Right now I'm trapped in the world of Hobbes, and must escape by writing a paper BTW: in the Golden Key on the inside cover it shows some forthcoming novels by Jennifer Roberson!!! Yippee!!! and they are Tiger and Del books!!! Sword-born (tiger and del have kids?!?) and sword-sworn (hey! that looks familiar!!) Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:07:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Mannaheim To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: DiCaprio and Dane Message-ID: I found some info on the new Romeo and Juliet coming out, although not much. If anyone has access to Premiere magazine (I think thats the one), this months has an article on it. Suncat -=-=-=-=-=-=-patw-+AT+-clark.edu-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2+2=5 for extremely large values of 2. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:09:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Mannaheim To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Keltia? Message-ID: I guess I missed something. What is all this Keltia stuff everyone is talking about? Something about Celts in Space? I'd like to know more! Suncat -=-=-=-=-=-=-patw-+AT+-clark.edu-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2+2=5 for extremely large values of 2. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:26:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Biblical stuff (off-topic but mercifully brief) Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Sep 1996 Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-BAYLOR.EDU wrote: > How come we see very little sacred literature in Valdemar? We know of the Book > of One, quoted liberally by Mero, and of the Karsite Holy Book (the name slips > my mind for the moment), but nothing else. If there's this amalgam of faiths in > Valdemar, so much so that the students at the Collegium take a Religions course > (see Magic's Pawn), how come we don't see any tenets of faith, or writings of > prophets, or anything? I hereby answer this obmisty with a quote from Robert Jordan :) Mr. Jordan keeps being asked why there are no priests, temples, sacred writings (prophecies of the dragon notwithstanding) etc. He keeps answering that the gods of his world are *tangible*: there really is a big hole up past the mountains of Dhoom with a nasty nasty character inside, and so forth. Now obviously with Misty we get religious systems, and serious ones. The karsite sun-priests, who we do know a great deal about now, do have written scriptures (ref. Karal and Ulrich and, um, Natoli's father the Herald all talking). The Book of the One is a scripture :) and we see all sorts of priests and whatnot in Valdemar, certainly in Vanyel's time if somewhat less so today. (And Vanyel certainly implies his shock at the idea of a religion different from his, which I would venture to guess is the pagan version of modern-day conservative Catholicism, if that makes any sense. Anyway, he seems convinced of the rightness of his faith initially, which suggests that it had some sort of official code. Probably one including condemnation of homosexuality.) The gap in religious scriptures really comes when you start in with the Shin'a'in, who have , even more so than Robert Jordan's characters, tangible connections with thier deities whenever they want them (for the most part, and with some sacrifices involved.) So they dont' really need a scripture; all they have to do is send the clan shaman walking the moonpaths or something. Hmmm. INteresting. What about the Tayledras? Does something about the magic and the *past* tangible connection with the divine have something to do with their seeming lack of need for codified religion? Probably the latter. This now concludes this long and probably completely wrong message. Sorry, not quite. I, in my function as Avatar of Alliteration and Assonance, hereby send out the call for all other seniors applying to college, and incorporate us as the Crazed Collegians. Seriously, anyone else out there? I think I really may go nuts soon.... Off to write essays. Joy, joy, joy. Catherine Sundancer Goddess of Sharp Pointy Things and Spiral Notebooks Avatar of Alliteration and Assonance Co-pres, Crazed Collegians http://www.watson.org/~cathrine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:51:07 -0500 From: em To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: sympathy for the college application club Message-ID: Catherine Sundancer wrote: >Sorry, not quite. I, in my function as Avatar of Alliteration and >Assonance, hereby send out the call for all other seniors applying to >college, >and incorporate us as the Crazed Collegians. Seriously, anyone else out >there? I think I really may go nuts soon.... Off to write essays. Joy, >joy, joy. > Ahhh, the wonders of senior year. This is about that time for you, isn't it? I went through it all last year, and I think it was the highest stress level I have ever encountered. The strange thing about college-application stress is that, unlike other forms of stress, i.e. opening night of a play, your huge AP biology midterm, the fight you had with your boy/girlfriend last night, college-application stress lingers on for months. It's not over after you get those applications in the mail, *oh no*, you then have to wait to find out if you get in, and *then* if you get enough financial aid to go where you want to, and *then* you stress over the actual process of leaving home and starting a new life. And if you are insane enough to apply early someplace, as I was, the stress is even worse. What if I get deferred? What if nobody wants me? I applied to only two schools and actually got in early where I wanted to go, but for about a month in the fall I checked my mail in town every day, knowing that eventually there would be a letter in that mailbox that would determine the rest of my life. In recogmition of your pain, I am sending you all the sympathy in the world. It is *such* a horrible process, but the end results are absolutely beautiful. When you get that acceptance letter (and you will get it, never fear:)) the world turns a happy shade of pink and you can just float through the rest of your year in a blissful fog commonly known as Senioritis. I don't think I did any serious work after the first week of May in my senior year. So get it all mailed out and just let the fates push you where they will. You have no controll, but don't panic! We are all here to support you and let you know that college is worth the all sadistic evil an admissions officer can cook up ;) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% I don't really have an obMisty, but I may be able to squeeze one out of the recesses of my overtired mind. Umm...let's see. Florian- I tend to agree with who ever it was who said that he may in fact be a totaly new personality. Misty was so obvious about the other reincarnated herald/companions that I find it hard to believe we would have to search for Florian's previous persona. Misty is not one for subtelty:-) off to a film screening and then to the pile of reading I have to catch up on:( Em-who wishes there were more hours in the day Emily_Marso-+AT+-brown.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:58:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Mannaheim To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Morals, "special friends", and Blue SS Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Kimberly wrote: > BTW, is morality universal? Or relative to society/individual? *looks at > philosophy binder and creeps closer to Claris, shuddering* > > ObMisty: has anyone thought about the "special friends" amongst the > Holderkin? I wonder if that applies for the males, too; Talia doesn't > specify when she mentions it to Keren. Or if their men ~have~ friends at > all ::looks lost and sad at the thought:: > > > In my incredibly humble opinion (snicker), morality is individual. People choose what morals they will have, or sometimes they have their morals chosen by society, but in the end all morals are based on the individual, because ultimately it is the individual who must decide that what they are doing/thinking is moral or not. I live by my own moral and ethical code that is a hundred times harder than those of most people I know, and I still don't think it's good enough. All around my I see people whose morals differ drastically. This is getting a bit long winded, but think on this. Two contrasts are those who are devoted to a religion, and follow that religion AND its moral code strictly, and those who choose to be promiscuous and abuse drugs. Both are radically different and, comparing them against the "norm", they have completely opposing moral codes. On the subject of "special friends", I don't think the males have any, since there seems to be a shortage of men on the border due to bad weather and brigands (oops, did that slip out of Karse?) ObMisty: On the subject of the Blue Swordsworn, I just reread the passage where they are mentioned. They are sworn to both the crone and the warrior, and the temple in Kata'shin'a'in is the ONLY place where they can be found. Their purpose is to guard knowledge. Suncat -=-=-=-=-=-=-patw-+AT+-clark.edu-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:07:45 EST From: haineca-+AT+-earlham.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Evil applications and other such stuff... Message-ID: <009A929B.E415093E.13-+AT+-earlham.edu> Heyla, one and all! This is for all of the people applying to college now. I went through all of that a year ago and was quite stressed about it. It's hard not to worry but it's better once everything is mailed out and acceptance letters are recieved. It's VERY stressful. Things do work out, though, just keep on throwing things across the room, no I mean moving on. obMisty: Where could I find Misty's short stories? I would like to read them. It's kind of lame I know but I am in the midst of writing papers and studying for quizzes. Lady Wildcat, Lady of most things kittenish and blue roses. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:19:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat the Cat in Green To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Velgarthian Religion Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Catherine Osborne wrote: > Hmmm. INteresting. What about the Tayledras? Does something about > the magic and the *past* tangible connection with the divine have > something to do with their seeming lack of need for codified religion? > Probably the latter. I still want to know what happened to the Tayledras shamans. The Shin'a'in and Kaled'a'in have them. Why not the Tayledras? Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"I looked across the battlefield, blood Adept, and God of Procrastination| seeping from my wounds. My comrades, mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | they did never yield. For courage http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| knows no bounds." - Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:53:14 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: Re: Biblical stuff (off-topic but mercifully brief) Message-ID: <199609302253_MC1-9EF-8DE5-+AT+-compuserve.com> Sundancer said that the shin'a'in don't have scripture - well, don't those horrible cliches and proverbs count?!?!? I mean, I always felt that holy books were just guides on how to live and worship, and aren't those frequent preoverbs guides/advice on how to live? Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:51:26 +0930 From: "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid: Mates/age/gay/religion/prophecies Message-ID: <9610010321.AA102534-+AT+-bilbo.cc.flinders.edu.au> Kerry wrote- Maybe it's a guy thing. Or regional. (Ailsa, for >background reference for the phrase, I'm 21, originally from Far North >Queensland - *grin* and I forbid you to say "Well that explains a -lot-"). **BIG GRIN** it just shows you are strong - and maybe I should acknowledge my origins - older -44 - brought up in a small country town (200 people) in South Oz - so my idea of mateship can be skewed and I do agree with your analysis of SNAGS - it is just a lot of them weren't around when I was in my 20s I always like having my ideas challenged - well most of the time anyway - *wryful look* It's also good to have another Aussie on line. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I get the feeling i'm one of the oldies on this list - I'm not complaining just wondering - I'm 44 yoa - what is the average age? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I cannot help but add to the discussion about homophobia. I came out when I was 27 yoa, after my parents died - not because of it - but because it was obvious that I was spending a lot of time with one woman. I was told by my Mormon sister that I was worse than a murderer and my right-wing brother said that I could no longer baby sit his children. He has since come around but still is very disparaging about homosexuals but his kids and his wife and I get on really well. My Mormon sister - has conditions about how and when I meet her kids - so I don't bother. I lost a crucial election at work because of a covert election campaign based on my sexuality. For a time I was angry and hurt - and now I realise that I and my gay brothers and sisters are a vanguard movement that will change the world. I will never stop being proud of who I am and that includes being gay. As for the religious discussion, I was a "born again" Christian from 13-25yoa. One of the reasons I stopped toeing the Christian line was most Christian's antipathy towrds homosexuality. I cannot understand a belief in a Godhead that is so prescriptive in their choice of who will join them. The Christian religion is patriarchal (IMHO) and the structure that is based around it even more so. I still think that Jesus had a great deal to say about a good way to live but so do others. If I was to be attracted to a religious order (and I have been - my spiritaul life is not one I discuss in depth with anyone) it would be to the Ban-droi in the Keltiad - The Silver Branch explains it all very well. ObMisty: I enjoy the way that ML discusses religion. I find it difficult to understand how Vkandis allowed all of the horror of Karse yet the Star Eyed is so involved on the Plains. Yes I think they are Co-consorts and I wonder why they split - possibly over the level of involvement in peoples? I have just finished the Lark and the Wren - the discussion there and in The Eagle and the Nightingales about the Church of the Sacrificed One is a not very subtle metaphor of the Church in our day. I find Sherri Tepper's books excellent for her metaphors of religion as does Sara Douglass in her relion of The Plough in Tencendor. One question - How does the idea of people having to follow a prophecy/destiny appeal to you, my listsibs? I'm with Elspeth - I find it an enathema (interesting choice of word- I went to the dictionary to find out if I had spelt it correctly and its meaning is cursed). Enough........ Wind to thy wings, List sibs Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda (serously considering being Ahecate - Goddess of Unknowledge, Presence and Lavender Rain) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:06:37 CDT From: "Hth." To: Subject: Morals, special friends Message-ID: <30SEP96.24959144.0088.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> Hah, just when you thought this was going to be an EASY question. I believe in universal, not individual morality. I believe in Truth -- that's capital "T", things that simply are and will always be. The concept of individual morality strikes me as someone's lame attempt to say that they can do whatever the hell they like because they aren't bound by any power except themselves, and if it fits in with their personal morality, how dare anyone else question their wisdom. Not referring to anyone specifically here, BTW. That's a composite sketch of a number of people I've known who like to go on about their own personal codes and how "differently moral" they are -- no, no one on this list comes to mind, so nobody get insulted. Just because there is no one, true way does not mean that all ways are equally true merely by virtue of the fact that they exist. BTW, by "morality" I'm not talking about how you worship, or if you worship, or what you believe about sex or death or rock'n'roll. I'm talking about things like not causing pain to other people, about courage in the face of evil, about love and the sacredness of life. I believe that these things, and others, are universally good and moral, not just something that you decide to believe or not to believe, both with equal validity. Just my worldview. You can disagree with me, but I'll probably still think you're wrong I doubt Holderkin society looks very favorably on male "special friends." The men all have multiple wives, and a duty to do by them (remember when Talia first sees nuclear-family houses? She mentions the image of a husband running from house to house in a single night in order to "do his duty") -- that duty being getting them pregnant. However, you have a lot of women with time on their hands (especially during pregnancy, when they have no more obligations to their husbands), and the wise society is going to expect that a bored and lonely woman will get into trouble. The Holderkin, it seems to me, would prefer their wives sleep with each other than with, oh, say, their neighbors or their goodlooking sons by some other wife. Less confusion over the inheritance issue. But you get men screwing around together, and that's 5 or 6 women who aren't going to get pregnant that night (assuming both of them are or could be married multiple times), and for the Holderkin, who are busy trying to thrive in a hostile environment, that's bad news. My brief analysis of the sociology of Holderkin sex. I could be completely wrong. I'm just rambling because sociology and sex are two of my favorite topics. HTH r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu "He really liked my kissing -- except for the biting and spitting." --Sally, *3rd Rock from the Sun* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:50:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Mannaheim To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: College? ACK! / Florian Message-ID: Wow. I hope I don't have to do that very soon. I'm a senior too. The only advantage I have is that I'm already in college. ObMisty!: On the subject of Florian, I think that yes, once again, it's a herald reincarnated. But I also think it's a herald we have never heard of. Sort of throwing in a brand new character essentially. I think the concept of companion-as-reincarnated-herald still holds. Suncat Holder of All Things Sacred and Aspiring Health Nut BTW: Any know what a Kridaratnam is? It's Hindu, but that's all I know. -=-patw-+AT+-clark.edu-=-Suncat Trevavyska-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. - Unknown -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:54:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Mannaheim To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: I know, I know...its the wrong place Message-ID: I know this is the wrong place to post magewar posts, so I'll make it quick. Could I PLEASE! be included? I'd really like to participate since my classes aren't keeping me especially busy. Suncat Holder of All Things Sacred and Aspiring Health Nut -=-patw-+AT+-clark.edu-=-Suncat Trevavyska-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. - Unknown -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 852 *********************************