MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 860 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Morality / Destiny / Labels / Travel by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 2) About grey areas, misty, and other books..... by Morgana 3) by Catherine Osborne 4) The Big Move Part 2 by Rozanna McNeer 5) Age by RIB - Richard Bertelsen 6) Greetings by Lori and Brad Jansen 7) Re: Kate/pagan by Joan Ferguson 8) Janny Wurtz/Di/JAKE! by "Vrondi" 9) Re: Hair by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu 10) Another good book (IMHO, of course) on wiccan paganism is 'The by Barbara Slater 11) Re: Another good book (IMHO, of course) on wiccan paganism is 'The by Ken Hyde 12) Books/Wicca Q/Lilac Congrats/SB spoiler by undine 13) the second big move/libraries/semantics by Emily_Marso-+AT+-brown.edu 14) Nightfall! by Rozanna McNeer 15) Re: Books/Wicca Q/Lilac Congrats/SB spoiler by Morgana 16) Re: Hair by khu286-+AT+-merle.acns.nwu.edu (Kay Huang Perry) 17) I wrote: by Barbara Slater 18) Re: Salutations! and SB spoiler by Ken Hyde ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Oct 96 16:32:07 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Cc: kerry_mealing-+AT+-il.us.swissbank.com Subject: Morality / Destiny / Labels / Travel Message-ID: <9610040632.AA18161-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> From: "Hth." > Kerry, I happen to agree with you completely -- does that make me a > radical moderate, too? I didn't get into that whole side of things > because, well, this is off-topic and I was trying to be terse is Heather being terse. This is as terse as it gets, guys.> Heheh. Heather, you can join the ranks of the radical moderates anytime. Welcome to the club. The few, the proud, the certifiably insane. *grin* > My feelings on those grey issues you mentioned is that Truth is eternal, > but humans are not gods, and we are not perfect. As an example, take > the old saw about killing one person to cure cancer or what have you. I > think it's always immoral to kill. BUT, sometimes it may be the best of > many bad options. Yes, in such a situation, I'd probably kill the guy. > I'd probably kill in self-defense. But the thing is, I don't feel like > that makes it right. Necessary, maybe, and sometimes we do things that > we find unpalatable because of necessity. I think the important thing > is to make all your choices with a right heart, and to do the best you > can, and to honor yourself when you do well and forgive yourself when > you fail. Heather, if you weren't in a different country and me probably not your type, I'd ask you to marry me. *grin* I might anyway, if only for the conversation. :) (And your book collection has nothing to do with it. Really. The fact that I can't find my living room for boxes of books is bad enough. Thoooough, I could always get a separate room for books.) *grin* > What I don't like at all is the idea, and you find this a lot in high > fantasy, Misty being one of the worst offenders, that if something is > necessary, it's fine and dandy. For example. It may have been > perfectly necessary to set mages on fire, or for Dirk to assassinate > someone. That's a choice that good people made, feeling that it was the > best possible choice in the situation, and I respect that decision. > However, the characters and the author give out this feeling that it's > perfectly fine to do things like that because, hey, they're bad and we > had no choice. I'd like to see someone admit that yes, setting people > on fire is a Bad Thing, but so was letting them live in that situation, > and even a Herald can find herself in an untenable situation sometimes > and just make the best she can of it. I hate it when characters get > smug about murder because the victim was evil, so it's okay. I agree completely. One of the fascinations about Janny Wurtz' books is that her 'heroes' are grey. A light colour grey perhaps, but grey none-the-less - they have hard choices to make, they're sometimes forced to do acts and take positions that they know are going to cause harm to good & innocent people; and they take the decision and pay the price in guilt. The touch in Winds about the Heraldic and Councellors circle debating over whether it was right and ethical about sending a team to assassinate Ancar, was good. IMHO. It was a interesting development in Misty's genre. Maybe I'm a tad too ruthless, but if I'd been Selenay I'd have damn-well sent a team to take care of him years before that. If it's a choice between losing massive portions of of my people to a megolomaniac who'd attempted to assassinate the heir to my throne, he wouldn't have tried twice. Yes, I'm aware of the unwritten 'code of warfare' that rulers don't try and attack each other personally, but Ancar had already broken that code. And I'd not use the analogy of putting down a mad dog as painlessly as possible - labels are one of the most dangerous thing imagineable. They let us distance ourselves from our statments and they hide the illogic of some statements. The nazi definition of human as Aryan etc, let them pin labels on others as inhuman; and from there, human standards simply didn't apply to them. Better, IMHO, to acknowledge that Ancar is all-too-human, warped from an unfortunate upbringing and has caused a situation where the choice is between killing him in an underhand manner, or losing thousands of the people to whom I (as Monarch) owe allegiance. And then I'd bite the bullet and send in the team. And that's why I wouldn't get chosen. :) > Hopefully this makes me sound a little more human I was in a very > bold and decisive mood when I wrote the last post, so I framed it in > very solid terms. Kerry filled out the philosophy nicely, and I thank > him for it. *grin* Thanks, but I was really only brushing in the fine-details that you cut for space considerations. (I mean, I pretty much knew you wouldn't disagree with what I was going to say). > I don't know, I'm an odd bird on this destiny issue. I have a > serious Problem With Authority (ask my roommate), and I *hate* being > told what to do. Just hate it. On the other hand, I believe strongly > in duty. If I'd been Elspeth, I would not have been thrilled to be > married off politically, but I would have done it, if it had been a > choice between my feelings on the matter and Valdemar's safety. Drat. You've made me realize I'd have done that too. I'd curse and swear and then go along with it. It's that old line: "I could not love thee, Dear, so much, Loved I not Honour more." Richard Lovelace - To Lucasta, going to the Wars. ------------------------------------------------------------------ EOM Wintershard wrote: > What of killing one person to save the world from cancer or the like? I > have to say that it is downright wrong. The world isn't a story where such > things occur. There is no such thing as someone fated to destroy a nation > or etc. We in the real world have other options. Isolating that person > from the rest of the world, finding a way to cure him. If we were to kill > a person for that, why not kill them for having too red of hair? It's > wrong, that's why. Besides, think of how many people have helped the world > advance, even though they have problems. You may even know some. Hell, you > may know a lot. They have every right to this world that we do, and every > right to the chances that we do. > Re killing Hitler or the like. I don't regard such human beings as people. > Any one who will kill thousands, or have them killed for the sake of > destroying them can't be allowed the same privileges as the rest of us. > They're animals with human bodies, and leeches for minds. They should be > treated as such until they change their ways. Hmm. I was agreeing with you all the way, up until the last paragraph. Your first paragraph says that we shouldn't apply labels to people - that we shouldn't kill them for "x" - that they're still people. In the last paragraph you fall into the same trap that the nazi's fell into. They defined the jews as less than people (for whatever reason), and went on to follow the same logic (that they're less than human & should be killed etc). It's dangerous logic on a slippery slope. Your first argument is IMHO, more sophisticated & morally more advanced - it suggests that such people -are- people still, misguided, evil perhaps, but none-the-less still people. It suggests that they should be isolated and a cure sought. And if this is not possible, then yes, perhaps they should be killed, to prevent them exterminating the rest of humanity. But the point that remains is that they're still human. To say or believe anything else is to fall to a similar standard as they. (Not to mention it'd very likely lead to the -serious- tactical error of gravely underestimating your enemy). The danger in holding inconsistent arguments like that, is that you can twist and warp them - very easily - to whatever you want, simply by tweaking the definition of key terms. Little things - "human", "deserve", the use of the word "priviledge" when you mean "right".. ------------------------------------------------------------------ EOM HTH wrote: > Welcome, Tiffanie. Nonono, being new does not mean we have to be nice > to you. It means we can mock and ridicule you, because you have no > friends here yet and no one will stand up for you. Watch out for Heather Tiffanie. She is, to steal the words of a certain someone, uniformly cool, but watch her eyes and be ready to block the left jab and roll with that right hook. :) :) ------------------------------------------------------------------ EOM From: "Hth." > Actually, manymanymany people who traveled to America, at least, and I > suppose Australia had a similar experience, *did* go back to their home > countries, or had every intention of doing so. In fact, at certain > times the *majority* of immigrants expected to go home. They came to > the New World to make money, then returned to their homes and families. > Sometimes, of course, they died before that happened, or they changed > their minds, or they never got as rich as they expected. But it wasn't > really a once-and-for-all trip. And yes, if I had reasonable chance of > being able to return, I'd go to Valdemar. I've always wanted to travel > more. Hmm, maybe for America - I didn't think that such was the case in Australia for anyone except perhaps, sailors and some of the military (like Governor Phillip). Of course, Australia's a little more distant from England as well I guess (and the Trade Winds blow from South Africa -> Western Australia which makes return trips just that touch longer. Still, as always, I'm ready to be corrected on this one by someone who remembers this history better than I. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------ EOM Ummm, I'm outta here for the weekend in 5 and I'm not up to date on digests. Briefly then.. Cennyd, what you said in the discussion about relgion, I agree with - you've certainly got a more in-depth knowledge about Taoism & Buddism than I (it wouldn't be hard). Your use of the word 'faith' where I used 'religion' (as opposed to religious institutions) seems to me to be "by definition" - ie one term is as good as another as long as we all know what we mean, but I get the impression 'faith' is the term used in the anthropological field, in which case I take due note. As you said, the factual errors in my examples still don't seem to invalidate the basic hypothesis. (I wish I had more time to smooth out these posts, but I mail from work in snippets of time during the day). I still maintain I wasn't really distinguishing between faith and religion - the Shin'a'in worship of the Star-Eyed, is still not, as I understand your definition, faith. It is a religion, albeit a loosely-ruled one, where the Shamen and Sword-sworn merely act as a guide for the Star-Eyed's wishes. The average Shin'a'in can call on their Goddess and given sufficient need (say, as evidenced by a sacrifice), can reasonably reliably expect a tangible result (say, a manifestation). This is type 1 I defined - a religion with a close personal relationship & a hands-on deity. More like the Christianity of the old Testament. Type 2 I defined as the Lord and Lady of Valdemar where we never see a direct manifestation or response to a plea for help (exclude the Companions for a moment) and a religious church / ritual structure has grown up. I'm a little pressed for time, but I would think that this is a slightly different breakdown than that between your faith and religion. I'll mail when I get back from hols over the weekend. :) Cheers, Kerry. ------------------------------------------------------------------ EOM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 00:39:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Morgana To: mailinglist Lackey Subject: About grey areas, misty, and other books..... Message-ID: I believe it was Kerry, cool name, btw, tis mine, was speaking of grey areas, and how it was a good thing that Misty was progressing towards the idea of it might not being ethical and right to use assasins, and for some reason, a book came to mind, called The Wizard's First Rule.... does anyone else think that this book shows the 'grey' areas of people rather well, as well, as what a code of honor drive one to do? Obmisty.... Hm, this kinda relates... do I need one? :) Morgana, Goddess of Things Unseen and depressed student of the hectic lifestyle ** Except for the boy in the belfry he's crazy, he's throwing himself down from the top of the tower like a hunchback in heaven He's ringing the bells in the church for the last half an hour. He sounds like he's missing something or someone that he knows he can't have now, and if he isn't I certainly am. ** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 07:50:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes lackey list Subject: Message-ID: (digression: I wouldn't take my immmediate family. I'd just pack up and go. Can't think of very much I'd need.... My weaponry, my cloak, my complete works of Shakespeare, and my copy of AotQ, for the orientation class scenes :) Hmmm. Yeah, that's about it. I travel very light. Valdemar or bust! In fact, I'd go if I could be a Herald, a Healer, a Bard, or any kind of Tayledras. I'd prefer Herald or Bard -- and I *can* sing, so there would be that if nothing else. Anyway.) (Another digression: Anyone interested in paganism: my Pagan Resources Page has lots of cool stuff: ritual scripts from my coven and from Net people, recipes, poetry and songs, stories, and other neat things. I encourage you to check it out. I am *not* a Wiccan, but unfortunately non-Wiccan things are much more difficult to find, so the page has sort of a quasi-eclectic-Wiccan tilt to it. It's at http://www.watson.org/~cathrine/pagan/pagan.html if you're curious or interested.) Now for the real reason of this message. I must report with extreme regret that I have to unsubscribe for the next few months. I am simply swamped with work and have no time to really keep up and do justice to you all. Jaguar will keep me up to date, though :) and will presumable relay messages if necessary for some reason. But I will still be answering private mail, and remain on the magewar list. Speaking of private email, will anyone going to Dragonfest email me please? I want to keep a list of all of you.... And for the rest -- wind to thy wings until January! Catherine Osborne (Sundancer) I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu Goddess of Sharp Pointy Things and Spiral Notebooks Avatar of Alliteration and Assonance Captain of the Sunbolts http://www.watson.org/~cathrine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:00:04 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: The Big Move Part 2 Message-ID: <199610040900_MC1-A18-6103-+AT+-compuserve.com> Julie (i think) wanted to know if we'd go to Velgarth if we knew we'd be chosen answer: NO!!!!!! The companion bond may be wonderful but I am not selfless, have *never* been good with people face-to-face, and I **know** my set of ethics would probably preclude me from being chosen - i tend to very extreme measures to correct something I view as wrong - like pre-frontal lobotomies on repeat sex offenders and let them make liscence plates from then until they die. Also, I like to have time to myself - it seems like the Heralds *never* get a long respite; it's always back into the saddle and riding off to save Velgarth. And we all know that the amount of Chosen seem to directly correlate to the amount of trouble expected and that there seem to never be enough Heralds to deal with all the problems, and some Deity makes sure there are never more Heralds than can deal with these problems. I don't think it is like there is an influx of ethical people being born just 10-13 years before trouble starts - there's an influx of Companions to choose them. I am entirely to hedonistic and shamelessly enjoy the pleasures of our world too much to give it up even if I thought I would be chosen. If I wanted to live in a fantasy world - that's tough - either Keltia or the Sunrunner world, provided I had money Firemist, the shamelessly shameless ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:12:36 +0100 From: RIB - Richard Bertelsen To: "'M.L. Post'" Subject: Age Message-ID: Hi! I am new at this, but have been looking in for about 2 weeks (lurking?). I am 43 years old, but have been reading science fiction and fantasy for allmost 30 years here in Denmark, the last 25 mostly in English. I do hope I can contribute to the discussions as I have liked Misty's writing since I met her in Sord ans Sorceress many years ago. Richard Bertelsen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 07:59:47 -0700 From: Lori and Brad Jansen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Greetings Message-ID: <32552663.476C-+AT+-nmsu.edu> hello, I am new to the Mercedes Lackey mailing list. I have been a fan for years. I have enjoyed reading your picks for what would appears to be a movie. However I cannot see Zena as a good choice for Talia. SHe is to strong of a women. Talia needs to be a mouse of a woman even through she is tall. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:03:19 -0400 From: Joan Ferguson To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kate/pagan Message-ID: <199610041403.KAA24725-+AT+-elmer.Harvard.EDU> >On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Hth. wrote: >> Ummmm, I wouldn't say that the main difference between Celtic paganism >> and Wicca is human sacrifice! In case it should need saying out loud, >> modern Celtic pagans don't sacrifice people. The original Celts did >> sometimes ritually kill prisoners of war or criminals, often with three >> simultaneous cuts to the throat, the heart, and through the center. But >> that was a long time ago. Celtic paganism is still a religion in >> practice, but we sacrifice neither criminals, prisoners, nor sacred >> kings. At 10:59 PM 10/3/96 +0100, Tensen wrote: >And almost always it was used in rites of fertility. Usually as a >pricinple it was meant, that the persona would at least serve a good >purpose in the end, even if they didn't during this lifetime. Oh, dear - I definately did *not* mean sacrifice to be the main reason - just one of many examples!!! I'm sorry if it ended up looking that way in my message - I was trying to keep things as short and simple as possible - guess I edited just a bit *too* much :-) Just wanted to apologize, in case anyone was offended by what I wrote. -Joan Lady Kessira, Goddess of Lurking :-) (going back to my lair, now ...) joan_ferguson-+AT+-harvard.edu Harvard University Library Preservation Office "Instead of loving your enemies,treat your friends a little better." -Edgar Watson Howe (1853-1937) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:40:10 +0000 From: "Vrondi" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Janny Wurtz/Di/JAKE! Message-ID: <199610041443.KAA02476-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> On 4 Oct 96 Kerry Mealing wrote: > I agree completely. One of the fascinations about Janny Wurtz' books > is that her 'heroes' are grey. A light colour grey perhaps, but grey > none-the-less - they have hard choices to make, they're sometimes forced > to do acts and take positions that they know are going to cause harm to > good & innocent people; and they take the decision and pay the price in > guilt. Was Janny Wurtz the one who wrote "The Legend of Nightfall"? If not, who was it? And well, what has Janny Wurtz written? ____________________________________________________________ On 4 Oct 96 Hth. wrote: > If you must justify it, > say that a good, basic understanding of Wicca enhances one's > understanding of the Diana Tregarde books (CotN *happens* to be > probably my favorite Misty book after the LHM trilogy, > thankyouverymuch) Yes! *sigh* I would so love to see Misty take a break from Valdemar and thwack her publishers over the head to get more Di stuff published. ______________________________________________________________ On 4 Oct 96 Jake wrote: > Di Tregarde, I liked. But that's because there's only four books.. > if she extends it, I'm sure the flaws will shine. FOUR!!!!! I only have THREE!! Jake, was there one I missed? Oh, and thanks for the info on Hip hoppity hop and Heather's Heathen's. I'll have to check it out. ;) -Vrondi,"Mistress of the Air, One With the Trees" #wicca Op The Tiger Balm Lady a.k.a. Free Bard Oriole a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean  "To light a candle is to cast a shadow..." -The Master Hand "A Wizard of Earthsea" by Usrula K. Le Guin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:46:35 -0500 (CDT) From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Hair Message-ID: <199610041446.AA038510395-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu> > > On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Linda Malcor, Ph.D wrote: > > > At 02:10 PM 10/3/96 +0100, Stephanie wrote: > > > "He cleared his throat, and Tylendel jumped, dropping his book, > > >and looking up with his eyes widened and his hair over one eye." > > > Is that the right character? I'm not saying that Stef isd Florian. IIRC (no textev; books-+AT+-home) in MPrice the morning after Stef "seduces" Van, there's a desription of Stef when he wkaes up that mentions the lock of hair in his eye. But, I agree with Danya that Florian is another Herald/character with the same characteristic. Just my .02 for today. Nina ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 11:01:55 -0400 From: Barbara Slater To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Another good book (IMHO, of course) on wiccan paganism is 'The Message-ID: Another good book (IMHO, of course) on wiccan paganism is 'The Spiral Dance' by Starhawk. It's the first one I ever found - in a B. Dalton's in Toledo, OH of all places! ~Now~ it's not so unusual to see books on the occult in mainstream bookstores, but back then, it was ~rare~. The tenth-year edition is the one you usually find in stores now, and Starhawk does have a webpage now (she says she put it up in self-defense, because there were other 'Starhawk's on the Web that had nothing to do with her!). Dion Fortune is another good author to get your hands on, if you can; her stuff is reasonable and makes a pretty good read. Her background seems to be the Golden Dawn Western Hermeticism school, but apparently she broke with them for some reason, and then went her own way. I haven't read a biography on her yet, these are things I've picked up in in her fiction and some of her books (Psychic Self-Defense is a good and sensible example). ===================================== Someone asked (Sorry, forgot who it was), and this is paraphrased: If we could be sure of being Chosen, and could only go with our immediate family and what we could carry, would we go to Valdemar and what would we carry? My .02: I think I would go. My personal psychology is geared towards that kind of giving. I wouldn't insist on my family going; they have their own lives and would have to decide for themselves. What would I carry? Toothbrushes & toothpaste, a couple of good herbals, pencils and pencilsharpener! a couple of notebooks, 2 bags of good hemp seed, and a book that tells ~in detail~ how to grow hemp, harvest it properly, and how to make things from it (paper, cloth, oil, soap, paint, charcoal, food, ink, fodder and medicines, to name a few). My Book of Shadows and my altar implements. Hmm...not much room left. Metal crochet hooks, my recorder and tin whistle, my personal cookbook, and a flyswatter! Lani ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:28:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Another good book (IMHO, of course) on wiccan paganism is 'The Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Barbara Slater wrote: > Dion Fortune is another good author to get your hands on, if you can; > her stuff is reasonable and makes a pretty good read. Her background > seems to be the Golden Dawn Western Hermeticism school, but apparently > she broke with them for some reason, and then went her own way. Hmmm. I wonder if it had anything to do with the revelations about Aleister Crowley? He was a very prominent and public member of the Temple of the Golden Dawn, and I imagine that I was not the only person to become deeply suspicious of the group after it was revealed that he was a major Satanist, particularly since he doesn't seem to have made a strong distinction between the two groups in his work. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me **http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:31:50 -0400 (EDT) From: undine To: list lackey Subject: Books/Wicca Q/Lilac Congrats/SB spoiler Message-ID: Undine briefly emerges from her pool: Thanks to those who have sent supportive & cheery messages. They've helped get me through a Very Difficult Time. :i Welcome splashes to all of the newbies. Enjoy the Madness! ************************************* New & forthcoming books to look for: _The Memoirs of Elizabeth Frankenstein_ by Theodore Roszak. Told from the point of view of Victor Frankenstein's adopted sister/lover/and co-explorer into the alchemical world. Now available in pb (at least in the US). Now I'm not fierce like the ever articulate & amusing Heather but to borrow one of her lines, "Don't make me come over there!" It's full of fantasy, magick and the erotic--Read it! Fans of Lady Cottington's Pressed Flower Fairy Book a reason to live! A sequel is forthcoming (& there was much rejoicing) called _Strange Stains & Mysterious Smells_. Due in November. Morgana, look for the third Terry Goodkind book, _Blood of the Fold_ to come out soon. I just re-read _Stone of Tears_ and I think that you're right about the characters being shades of grey. They do suffer anguish over some of the things they are forced to do in the name of What's Right. And for all of you masochists, the latest Xanth book _Yon Ill Wind_ just come out in hardcover. Also due in November is an updated version of _Drawing Down the Moon_ by Margot Adler with updated info about pagan resources. Which provides a segue to: Have any of you read Rosemary Edghill's Bast mysteries? I just finished _Book of Moons_. How accurate is her depiction of the Life of a Witch? What about her character's assertion that Witchcraft can only document its history back to the 1940s? Was Mary Stuart a Witch? I'm not trying to start a religious debate; I'm genuinely curious. Feel free to let me know offlist--stafford-+AT+-iac.net Vrondi, _Legend of Nightfall_ was written by Mickey Zucker Reichart. Janny Wurts has written: _That Way Lies Camelot_ (gorgeous cover!), _Ships of Merior_, _Curse of the Mistwraith_, Keeper of the Keys_, _Master of White Storm_, _Stormwarden_, and _Wars of Light & Shadow_. **************************** Dear Exquisite Lilac Fairy Congratulations!!!! I think a party of the LotPW is in order. Champagne and nibbly bits!! Maybe one of our OoUL will ah...perform. Or at least be doing something naughty when we use the scrying pool ;) Allow me to perform a Wild Water sprite Wriggle on your behalf! Have you gotten to read SB yet? ****************************** Has anyone heard from Michele, the Goddess of Botanical Blight? My messages to her keep getting returned as undeliverable. :( *************************** Spoiler Alert!!! p o i l e r a l e r t Does anyone else feel like Misty got 15 pages from the end and then thought, "Oops! Better wrap things up."? Or that she was going to tie up the loose ends and be done with Velgarth only to have someone tell her to leave the door open for another book or two? Felt a bit like bookus interruptus ;) I felt that the Empire part was a great big buildup for naught. I mean when you look at it, what did all of the Empire intriguing have to do with what was happening at Urtho's Tower or even with Tremane? I'm not debating whether or not it was interesting just how exactly was it pertinent to the story? Had the vague feeling that maybe it Was supposed to matter when Charliss cast his spell. Sigh. And Florian didn't ring any recognition bells for me but his behavior was certainly strange for a Companion. Odd that Misty never provided an explanation. BTW, do Companions always Chose? And what happened to Idry? And that old saying about be careful what you wish for...is certainly true. I'm sorry I wanted info about Iftel; it was much more intriguing before it turned out to be White Gryphon by way of Vykaendis. Sigh. And poor Firesong. Misty's treatment of him seems rather cavalier. End of Spoiler ************************************************** Undine disappearing back into her bookstore pool "Gadzooks! What a big chunk of God is to be found by looking into the face of someone you love." _Patty Jane's House of Curl_ by Lorna Landvik ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:52:49 -0500 From: Emily_Marso-+AT+-brown.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: the second big move/libraries/semantics Message-ID: If I knew that I had a companion waiting for me....I *think* I would go. Being a college freshman ( I'm 18, for those of you doing the age poll) I am seriously lacking a direction. The chance to have the purpose and dedication of the heraldic life would be too much for me to pass up. I would be doing something worthwhile, something beneficial, and I would have very few doubts about the rightness of my task ( so I may be idealizing the situation a *little*. a girl's allowed to dream, isn't she? :)) However, I would have some serious problems leaving my family and my friends. I have been lucy enough to forge some pretty strong bonds during my comparatively short lifetime, and I would miss them sorely. If this question of moving to Velgarth had been posed to me when I was thirteen or so, when I first began to read fantasy and scifi, I wouldn't have hesitated at all. I identified with Talia so much back then, I think I would have packed my teddy bear, my collection of King Arthur stories, and bolted out the nearest door. But I think that now might be a little too late for make the move without some a heavy sense of loss and displacement. I, too, am jealous of all of you with bookshelves crammed with random volumes. My goal when I *grow up* is to have a house out in the country with huge gardens and an actual *library*. Maybe someday I will be able to claim as meny shelves full as the rest of you! A bit of semantics here- why do you call yourselves The Ladies of the Pink Wand? Am I missing some obscure Misty reference in the name, or is it something else entirely? I would like to join you, being an ardent admirer of Vanyels charms. Could I perhaps get some more information? Thank you ever so much. obMisty: I just sat here and stared at my screen for ten minutes...sorry, no obMisty for me today:-( I need more sleep! Em-who wishes there were more hours in the day Emily_Marso-+AT+-brown.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:09:53 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Nightfall! Message-ID: <199610041210_MC1-A09-CC26-+AT+-compuserve.com> Mickey Reichert (?) wrote Legend of Nightfall, (DAW book with a jody lee cover, guy looks like skif, can't miss it ) and it is ***really*** good!!!!! <- look! guess how many? I recommend it to one and all. It's a fairly LARGE book, too. S/he (?) also wrote a series about the Renshai which I haven't started yet because I'm still scouring used book stores for book 2 (it's a trilogy), but judging from Nightfall it will be wonderful! Te-he. in a way, the story line of Nightfall reminded me of Huff's Fire Stone, so if you liked that, you'll love this (and vice versa) obmisty - I want a book or a short-story about skif's getting chosen (wah) and not just a song, either (sticking tongue out at Jake, :>) I mean, being a street-kid must have been tough - so how did he wind up so friendly? firemist ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:12:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Morgana To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Books/Wicca Q/Lilac Congrats/SB spoiler Message-ID: Undine wrote, this morning I think for work, yet again. > Morgana, look for the third Terry Goodkind book, _Blood of the Fold_ to > come out soon. I just re-read _Stone of Tears_ and I think that you're > right about the characters being shades of grey. They do suffer anguish > over some of the things they are forced to do in the name of What's Right. > Hm... is the fact I consider Deanna to be one of the best characters in WFR a good thing, or a bad thing? I swear, I cried so much during that section of the book, I was amazed..... > And for all of you masochists, the latest Xanth book _Yon Ill Wind_ just > come out in hardcover. > Vrondi, _Legend of Nightfall_ was written by Mickey Zucker Reichart. > Janny Wurts has written: _That Way Lies Camelot_ (gorgeous cover!), > _Ships of Merior_, _Curse of the Mistwraith_, Keeper of the Keys_, > _Master of White Storm_, _Stormwarden_, and _Wars of Light & Shadow_. > Good books!! :) **************************** > > Okay, I will admit to liking the book, even if it did take me a week to read, because of RL. Including the empire stuff. I think the end was rushed, but that it is also a bit of background stuff for the next book, showen in this one, to give the reader a time reference, ig, this happened at the same time as this one. Now. Having said that, why the h*** is Misty doing these things in triologies??? There, all better. And so I go, back into the relm of lurkism. Morgana, Goddess of Things Unseen and depressed student of the hectic lifestyle ** Except for the boy in the belfry he's crazy, he's throwing himself down from the top of the tower like a hunchback in heaven He's ringing the bells in the church for the last half an hour. He sounds like he's missing something or someone that he knows he can't have now, and if he isn't I certainly am. ** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:22:18 -0500 (CDT) From: khu286-+AT+-merle.acns.nwu.edu (Kay Huang Perry) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Hair Message-ID: <199610041622.AA076706138-+AT+-merle.acns.nwu.edu> > > > > > On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Linda Malcor, Ph.D wrote: > > > > > At 02:10 PM 10/3/96 +0100, Stephanie wrote: > > > > "He cleared his throat, and Tylendel jumped, dropping his book, > > > >and looking up with his eyes widened and his hair over one eye." > > > > Is that the right character? > > I'm not saying that Stef isd Florian. IIRC (no textev; books-+AT+-home) in > MPrice the morning after Stef "seduces" Van, there's a desription of Stef > when he wkaes up that mentions the lock of hair in his eye. But, I agree > with Danya that Florian is another Herald/character with the same > characteristic. Just my .02 for today. Unless Stef's spirit is in two places, how could he be Florian? Isn't Stef's spirit and Van's spirit guarding Sorrows along with Yfandes? Spencer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 12:23:58 -0400 From: Barbara Slater To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: I wrote: Message-ID: I wrote: > Dion Fortune is another good author to get your hands on, if you can; > her stuff is reasonable and makes a pretty good read. Her background > seems to be the Golden Dawn Western Hermeticism school, but apparently > she broke with them for some reason, and then went her own way. Cennydd replied: Hmmm. I wonder if it had anything to do with the revelations about Aleister Crowley? He was a very prominent and public member of the Temple of the Golden Dawn, and I imagine that I was not the only person to become deeply suspicious of the group after it was revealed that he was a major Satanist, particularly since he doesn't seem to have made a strong distinction between the two groups in his work. My reply to that: >From hints in her books, it seems that she and someone high up in the hierarchy, possibly ~Mathers~?, had a falling out. She spoofed Crowley gorgeously in 'The Winged Bull'. I never knew that Crowley had been a member of the GD. Haven't read anything by him; don't intend to. ObMisty: 4 DT books? CotN, BW, JH - which one's #4? Barbara Slater Curator and Inmate of the Frogmore Zoo, Southern Division. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:29:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Salutations! and SB spoiler Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Oct 1996 GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu wrote: > Tif wonders if I am going to request diefication on some order of being... > can guys get deified herein? Of course. > the god of mediation, arbitration, negotiation in good faith, and excess > verbage reserving the right to resort to brute force and large edged > weapons as needed? As God of Karma and the Punisher of Excessive Quoting, I have no objections if you want to handle mediation and arbitration, as long as it is understood that after you are done, I get to decide what becomes of them in their next life, using my own judgement. BTW, I am pleased to report that the "Ashes" have not gotten any new members recently, despite the inundation of new blood. (For those not in the know, the "Ashes" is a club, founded by Kimi-chan (IIRC), consisting of the remnants of those I have "flamed" for excessive quoting--it isn't a mean flame, so don't worry). ObMisty: I assume that everyone has read Storm Rising by this point. Did you catch the reference to me (the God of Karma) in it? Further proof, as if we really needed any more, supporting Kerry's contention that Misty has been channelling the list as she writes. BTW, this is also an ObMisty, but is totally off of the other topics. I have been reading Tiger Burning Bright, and I have to say that I think it is hilarious how identifiable Misty's writing is. Shelyra *is* Elspeth. I haven't gotten too far into the book, and I am surprised that no-one around Shelyra has looked "like someone had hit them in the back of the head with a board." Oh, well, I am sure that it will happen soon. BTW, for others who are reading this book, I am pretty sure that Andre is writing Lydana, and MZB is writing Adele. Are there enough people interested in this to start a discussion about it. I can give my rationale for the various choices. (also BTW, I have just finished the first intro of Leopold, and I am still trying to decide who is writing him--any ideas?) Okay, now for the SB spoiler: | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | V Well, I finally read the thing. And I must say that I have gone beyond thinking that Misty is losing her touch to being completely disenchanted. Talk about a waste of effort on her part (and money on mine). While their were one or two parts that were "okay," the largest portion of it seemed to have been cranked out by the Misty-Novel-Generator 2000. However,to address a few threads that have been going on about the book: A) I think that the book makes it clear that Florian's human image is not a "memory" of a former human incarnation. It is clearly a presage of the appearance of a future human incarnation. B) the magic being gone thingy. At the end of the book it is stated quite clearly that the low-levels of magic are only temporary. This seems to be the only possible out-come given Misty's previous explanation that mage-force is generated by all living creatures. Even if all the magic in the world were sucked out by the boxes and never returned, if living creatures were left behind, they would eventually restore the magic of world. And it is also clear that the magic did not get sucked out never to return. The incredible inflorescence of the Shina Dhorisha is a sign that the magic was returned to the world. It is just evenly distributed. So, my guess is that it will only be a short time before new ley lines and nodes form, and magic is back to its old pattern. BTW, was anyone but really bummed that the Iftel delegation were griffons? When the description was first made in the text, I had hopes that Misty was going to do something original and interesting and have them be makaar(sp?). I thought it would be really great if it turned out that the people of Iftel were the remnants of Ma'ar's slaves. But that would have been so un-Misty (as she currently is), wouldn't it. Creatures that are created by evil mages (or misguided ones) are by definition "evil", I suppose, and therefore irredeemable. Still, I was hoping, and kind of let down to find out that it was just some more griffons. Anyway, from now on, I will be able to participate in discussions about SB, so I guess that is good. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me **http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html** ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 860 *********************************