MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 863 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Three not Four / *sigh* by Jake 2) ATTENTION HEATHER WEGEMER by Jake 3) by Jake 4) Fantasy Epistle by "Valerie Sanford" 5) Re: YES!!!! *LOUD cheer* by Ken Hyde 6) fantasy "non-doctoral" thoughts *grin* by aw2-+AT+-mail.idt.net (Kimberly) 7) Re: Varayan Memoirs by Ken Hyde 8) Re: More on casting. by "E. Angell" 9) cast of characters by "Valerie Sanford" 10) Re: cast of characters by "E. Angell" 11) Sorry! by tparavic-+AT+-ozemail.com.au 12) Storm Breaking sighted in London by Melanie Dymond Harper 13) What Misty reads/How she works/Fluff: LotPW-Lilac F. & Cenny by LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com 14) Elves by GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu 15) I don't bloody believe this... by Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-BAYLOR.EDU 16) Message from Internet by Rozanna McNeer 17) Re: Message from Internet by Jaguar ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 23:10:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Jake To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Three not Four / *sigh* Message-ID: <199610060310.XAA05425-+AT+-orion.webspan.net> >> From: Vrondi >> On 4 Oct 96 Jake wrote: >> >> > Di Tregarde, I liked. But that's because there's only four books.. >> > if she extends it, I'm sure the flaws will shine. >> >> FOUR!!!!! I only have THREE!! Jake, was there one I missed? >> Oh, and thanks for the info on Hip hoppity hop and Heather's >> Heathen's. I'll have to check it out. ;) > >I think poor Jake just made a tithe to a certain Git. I humbly apologize! *sigh* There are ONLY THREE DI TREGARDE books, as we all know: CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT, BURNING WATER, and JINX HIGH. There are TWO not printed up yet, working titles ARCANUM 101 and TRIANGLE PARK. THREE not FOUR. I am really sorry about this... late night email errors, I suppose. It was not a joke on purpose. ---- *sigh* You folks get into interesting discussions and WHAT happens? *sob* Poor old Jake has to work overtime *and* have to attend a small family emergency. So I shall be lurking for a while. *whine* But I have things to say! (Heather W's post on reality, HTH's post on Velgarth books... :( :() Just no time to say them. I'm not brushing anyone off, mind you, 'sjust that I have no time for a week or two.. *sob sob sob* Blessed Be Jake Jake Adamo (rynath-+AT+-webspan.net) Mercedes Lackey Information FAQ Administrator Bard Champion of the Ladies in Green Warriors do stupid things in battle so philosophers and bards and loremasters can do wise things in times of peace. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 23:14:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Jake To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: ATTENTION HEATHER WEGEMER Message-ID: <199610060314.XAA05892-+AT+-orion.webspan.net> All right. *grin* Sorry to post this to the list, but it kicks back to me saying NO SUCH USER. But she posted! *grin* Here goes, I apologize. Heather D. Wegemer? If this is the same Heather Wegemer that was on heatherica-+AT+-aol.com .... *grin* WHERE'S MY COPY OF HERALD'S REVEL? *grin* *pout* You said you were going to use "Obsession" in it, and you disappeared... *sigh* and I don't know what happened. E-me, please.... I don't mean to be a pest, and if I am, then just tell me to wait already. Jake Jake Adamo (rynath-+AT+-webspan.net) Mercedes Lackey Information FAQ Administrator Bard Champion of the Ladies in Green Warriors do stupid things in battle so philosophers and bards and loremasters can do wise things in times of peace. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 23:25:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Jake To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Message-ID: <199610060325.XAA07487-+AT+-orion.webspan.net> Firemist wrote about a week ago: >EEK!!! Jaguar has totally lost it!!!!! (he-he look 5! ) a Fat Alberich?!?! Not the Jagster. Me. And it's from... ======================================================= THE FAT ALBERICH THEME SONG! (A filk of the theme of Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids) new lyrics by Rynath-+AT+-webspan.net (Jake!) ======================================================= Hey hey heyyyyla, It's faaaaaat Alberich! And I'm gonna swing a sword for you... And Kero will teach you a thing or two.. You'll have some fun now With Talia and the gang Learning from each other Why we do our thing.. Na na na gonna have a good time! (Hey hey heyyla!) (Voice over) This is Mercedes Lackey coming at you with music and fun And if you're not careful you might learn something before it's done. *deep voice* Hey Hey Heyyyyyyyyla! *giggle* Forgive me... visions of Bards from the collegium playing junk (radiators, bed frames) dance in my head right now... Jake Jake Adamo (rynath-+AT+-webspan.net) Mercedes Lackey Information FAQ Administrator Bard Champion of the Ladies in Green Glenshadow's Tavern - Great place to role play and to meet other role players. Active role playing Monday through Friday between 6:00am-2:00pm Pacific. Hosted by Jase Glenshadow. Go to http://wbs.net for information. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 96 03:35:58 UT From: "Valerie Sanford" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Fantasy Epistle Message-ID: WOW! A lot can happen in a few days. I haven't had a chance to pick up messages. You guys/gals/witches/gods/goddesses/cats, et al are very prolific! AGE/FANTASY POSITION I am 34 and have been reading SF/Fantasy for about 12 years. Actually, since I was a teenager now that I think of it. My first books were CS Lewis Narnia (which I read straight through - literally - in 3 days) and then immediately into Tolkien. I remember reading IN CLASS in highschool so absorbed I didn't hear anything else. I still got an A as it was just a "health and safety" class. Fantasy as escapism. Yes and No and at different times. I will try to be coherent in my streamofconsciousnessjamesjoycian typing. As a very young adult 12-16, fantasy, in fact all books, were a whole new world where I was transported to live and be who I wanted to be. Who my "real" life could never let me be. My personality and persona came from mentally living in a world where I could be different people at different times; where I could experiment with characters and try them on for fit and comfort. Sometimes I would be a heroine. Sometimes I would be a brat. Always I was magical and loved by the "supreme" power - gandolf, aslan or whomever was running the show. Although frankly, gandolf was a little scary. But I found a person I could be in the "real world" I used fantasy/SF as a way to immigrate into safety and to feel emotions. I could cry, laugh, feel love, feel anger, be angry and hate and love as true emotions that needed to be expressed and could not be. What a wonderful gift be able to truly "express" or even understand adolescent feelings. To cry over a book and not what was really breaking my heart gave me an out - I did not have to explain or defend myself. Like Vanyel, it was a way to barricade myself from the hurt of others - but unlike young Vanyel, I let myself feel everything I could through fantasy. As an adult fantasy is now myth. Legend, fables and parables like stories of the greek or egyptian gods used to lead others to ponder moral and ethical questions. I see fantasy as a way to test ethics to understand consequences of behavior and as models for personal and human development. My spiritual development, values, morals, lifestyle choices and my method for handling trauma, defeat and success (in whatever terms you like to put those in) come from a source of knowing about myself through fantasy. I love Heralds and I love Di and I love many many of Misty's charcters - my favorites - Kero and Tarma. But the clearest example I can think of how fantasy acts as myth (in Joseph Campbell thinking) is Paksenarnion. Elizabeth Moon's myth of Paks - her pride, her fall and her spiritual journey to herself is an overwhelming "morality" play. She sees herself, faces it and moves into her position in the world, one more piece in the puzzle to bring the world straight. It is a glorious tale of a personal journey and clearly shows the concept of everyone having a job to do in the world and if you find our place of peace you will accomplish your chosen task. That said, I believe fantasy is critical for youth and adult alike to "escape" into possibilities. And frankly, that is the point of all art, be it literature, music, visual or physical - to give one the window in which to look, the courage to see and the strength to become the person you were intended to be. Off-my-soapbox-now - -- Val ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 00:08:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: YES!!!! *LOUD cheer* Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Oct 1996, Kimberly wrote: > *chuckle* Well, by this time, you will probably have recieved info from the > Fay (so sue me if I spell in French phonetically *weg*) Day Leelaks, but > for the benefit of a few people who joined and must have wondered, it was > off a joke by Poison Ivy, IIRC. All sorts of odd situations, with blue > cauldrons and pink whatevers smushed with ah, different sexual situations > ::innocent gaze:: And we called the situation that involved ladies falling > in lust with gay men the Curse Of The Pink Wand. We are thus, the Ladies of > The Pink Wand. *giggles madly* Kimi-chan, just two tiny points here. A) the correct phonetic spelling for "fee des lilas" is 'fay day leelah' (Ok, that isn't IPA, but you get the idea). The 's' at the end of "lilas" is silent in French. Also, the Curse of the Pink Wand is a term that originate Lo these many years ago in the gay community. It came up when someone mentioned that they were always falling in love with gay men, and I said something about the CotPW. It was immediately jumped on to create a number of creative stuff, but we still ended up with the LotPink Wand. > *grumble* Is my sentence as a squirrel up by ~now~ yet? *giggle* I don't know. Have you died, been reborn, lived out your squirrel existence and come back as Kimi-chan? May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me **http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 00:31:06 -0500 From: aw2-+AT+-mail.idt.net (Kimberly) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: fantasy "non-doctoral" thoughts *grin* Message-ID: Icewolf wrote: >So Valdemar and SERRAted Edge are juvenile and unbelievable (simplistic bad >guys, morals to the stories, happy endings [more or less]), eh? *weg* Okay, you're about to get treated to a card holding member of the Drifting Ahses open her mouth to start a flame, guys *grin* Cover your ears. =D Where do you see someone saying that fantasy, young adult or otherwise, automatically equals being unrealistic? >D'you suppose this is part of the reason the genre is called *Fantasy*? Do you suppose the reason writing is creative is that it can transcend idiotic fields and strict definitions? Fantasy can have a whole hell of a lot of elements. Not only that, but pick up a book on fairy tales ~now~ as an adult who is (well hopefully anyway *grin*) in the stage of formal operations (to quote Piaget). I think, and this is only in my oh-so-humble opinion *rueful grin* the majority of our classic "children's tales" have a lot of meanings that are sometimes horrible to watch. Do you know what the original version of "The Little Mermaid" was? The beautiful mermaid princess, who gave up her kingdom and her voice, saved the life of a mortal man, killed herself when her prince screwed around with another girl, offered the choice between regaining her old life, as it was, by a sea-sorceress (and I'm not even going to ~touch~ the implications on the witch here) destroyed herself instead rather than killing the prince who'd betrayed her. She went to the arms of the gently wild sea spirits instead... now is that "wish fulfillment"? >Heather, I know you were making a point, I'm going to take it one step >further. >I couldn't resist. Fantasy, at it's core, has a "wish fulfillment motif" >(Preface, How to Write Tales of Fantasy, Science Fiction, and Horror, Writer's >Digest Press, 1987). ::laugh:: Remind me never to pick up one of those books. Ack, scariness! >And it's this motif that manifests itself in cars and >women and good guys and bad guys that I'm assuming Jake objects to. NO! Jake didn't say anything about objecting to it! *indignant flush* He said that Misty targeted her audience specifically. Heather supported the theory, legitamately. OTOH, as a supporter, I might be a tad biased =,> But I wasn't so crazy about horses that I didn't realize that horses ~also~ require all the work of mucking out stables, cleaning tack, saddle sores, and a tendency to slobber in affection, sneeze green mucus, etc. *grin* Ah, well, that's life. Heather, sure you wouldn't even consider marrying me? *teasing grin* Only thing is, there's that "Kimberly can be a difficult bleep" thing *giggle* >But think about this: if the SERRAted Edge stories had any more of a >grounding >in reality than they do, they wouldn't be fantasy, they'd be general fiction. >And what fun is that? :) Personally, I thought the SERRAted edge series was nice. Not great, but all right. (though I liked Bedlam Bards, incomplete as it is without the 3rd book in the series, much better. For the record, 'course *grin* I liked Di Tregarde, but there were lots of spots where I disagreed with Di's idea of right and wrong. Threefold Law never mentioned. "Harm none" never mentioned. Sigh. Oh well. High fantasy for you. *self deprecating smile*) However. While SERRA is very fantasy based, I would tend to think that Misty tried for an effect of reality in all of them. Er. With perhaps the exception of _Chrome Circle_ (I'm sorry, all you Tannim fans. ::sigh:: I like him too, but I still thought it was fairly tetchy. Mostly fillers and nothing, ~plot wise~ [not writing wise with the notion of kitsune honro and loyalty and a few of those ides, but the plot you must admit was thin ]) Born to Run dealt with runaways, prostitutes, and ghosts (erm. *flouder* take "ghosts" to mean whatever you like *grin*) Wheels of Fire dealt with a totalitarian-ish group who would have taken over by miltary force if they could have, a medium, another ghost. Religious issues with the Salamander thing. When the Bough Breaks dealt with a rape victim and the multiple personality disorder idea. And her father, family, wife, and step. The balatant ~indifference~ that could have let her step-mother not have seen what her father was doing. >Just watch when you call something "unrealistic" and start taking it apart. Hey! I ~agreed~ with the themes being targeted to the thoughts of teenage boys (in the case of SERRA) and girls (Arrows) The _Arrows_ series ~was~ unrealistic in a lot of senses. Idealistic in a lot of ways, and spirits going around as horses I don't know about. SERRA with good and bad elves could have been worked on. ~Why~ do good and bad elves exist. Because they came from another world. What an answer. ::sigh:: How is it that with all the time characterized by living in the magic world that they don't have any weakness or show any signs of being shaped by it except for the iron thing and the fact that they can use magic. The elves could have been elementals. That would have been interesting. She never touches on that. Or how it is that Underhill exists, if elves can't create except when copying. So they must have touched on the human world first, or they might have a closer relationship with their deity. There's not even an idea of balance in their magic. (but that's just a personal gripe ::laugh::) And one more thing, I am ~not~ confused. {*grin* unusual? Oh, perhaps...} I said that fantasy has a lot of grounding in realistic situations/ psychology, not that it wasn't characterized by "unrealistic elements" I think there's a difference (key words being "I think") *grin* >What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and you might find yourself >defending something that YOU really love or enjoy. ::sigh:: I hate that phrase... it's like one of those catch phrases people use in all sorts of senses and they don't have any idea what the original author was talking about. I object to the last half of that, too, but Heather does her customary excellent job on expressing (at least some of them) our feelings much more eloquently. >Oh, and Heather, if there's no "one, true way," there can't be any such >thing as heresy, can there? ::slow, wicked smile:: Then I suppose that if someone's way was randomly murdering people that wouldn't be heresy of course. Every idea is as good as another, after all. ::apologetic look:: Sorry, sorry. I spent a class yesterday arguing for universal morality rather than relative morality. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ \\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heather (I always wanted to say this, so I will *grin* I love that name. And now, the Goddess of Many Names has spoken! *giggle* But then... there're soft blue-grays, like the color of the clouds when it's about to rain and bring on the mossy green fuzz in my other house, and maybe the streaks a pencil makes when you erase some part of a drawing. The scent of strong orchids and the color purple. A tree. *hug* And a tickly feeling) wrote: >You cheapen the entire genre by saying that trite moralization, 2-d >characterization, and simplistic plots are fine for fantasy because, >after all, it's only fantasy. Ooooh. *wince* Wow. >Fantasy is not the bastard stepsister of >real writing. It is not too trivial and ineffective to be expected live >up to the same standards of excellence that we expect from "real" >fiction. And "real" fiction has a a lot of fantasy pieces in it. You just can't overdo it. *grin* >I disagree. Sorry, I'm not a candidate for anything, but this is my >genre, and I've been reading the best of it for many many years now, and >I can tell you that *the best of it* is excellent, far, far beyond >sentimentalized, juvenile bedtime stories. I accept escapist fantasy as >entertaining and harmless, but I object -- *object* -- to hearing how >dare I seek to differentiate between escapist, wish-fulfillment fantasy >and quality storytelling in the fantasy genre. I don't think Icewolf was going that far; I got more of a feel of defending the dreamy other worldly parts of fantasy, which yes, can be escapist. Just an opinion *grin* *ducks behind her Drifting Ashes membership just in case* As for sentimentalized bedtime stories... all right, I have a weakness for them anyway. We need a little of both the dense, serious elements that those books characterize as being a part of other fields ~and~ the fun in fantasy. There are, granted, other ways of going about it, inserting humour, poetry, and fun. But I um, think that Icewolf was trying to say that fantasy is different from other fields because it has those "bedtime stories" in it. BUT if we say fantasy ~is~ mostly juvenile stories, then, we might as well just call it that. We don't. Because there are points in fantasy that you don't see elsewhere, and that's what makes it unique. >Don't ever talk down to me. *laughs and jots down note to herself "don't ever piss Heather off, roll with her right hook, dodge her left jab, and speak not down to her"* >I'm willing to discuss literary philosophy >with you, but I have to say I'm less enthusiastic about it when you >start off by pulling rank and being snide. I'm not impressed by your >resume, and I'm definitely not impressed by your attitude. *thinking* Not pulling rank, really. I don't think, anyway. We've all been through school, or are going through it, and I know that almost all of my teachers ~do~ have doctorates. It's not considered snide, it's a mark of pride, but it makes no sense for a doctorate to think that no one could disagree with them. The reason they earned a doctorate was because they criticized someone else's work. *loses her thread* Darn, I forgot what I was going to say after that. Well, that shows how brilliant I am. ::laugh:: But still, Heather, I think if you thought that she wouldn't listen to you, you wouldn't have bothered to post this to the list; otherwise the sole point of this would have been for the purpose of humiliating a listmember, and I can't believe anyone on the list here could be so petty or stoop that low. (OTOH, you could just really have been annoyed, not thought at all, and posted. In that case, you can call me stupid happiply ever after *laugh*) ObMisty: If Alberich's Companion is never seen with him, what does ~do~? Oh, I can just see it now... *giggle* Alberich's Companion, standing over the yearlings and colts and fillies in Companion's Field, going "now, take your position! En garde!" *snicker* Tough love, people! ;D Kimberdoodly P.S. Alright so I couldn't enforce anything tougher than that. ::laugh:: I had the dubiously wonderful experience of being fought over again by my admirers *preen* My 4 year old cousins. *giggle* Over whether I could be their sister and how I should be divvied up *laugh* Cheers, Kimeroonie. =) P.S.S. Thank you, Mat ::smile:: *hug* red-leafed Fall love, Kimberella ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 00:36:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Varayan Memoirs Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Oct 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote: > It was by some person named Rick Shelley and a bunch of more worthless > books I never read (IMO) but when you are trapped at you inlaws with nothing > in english to read but this - you'll do anything! (my inlaws are dutch) Actually, I rather liked the Varayan Memoirs. And the whole thing with the gems was certainly a more interesting and original take on the Earth Mother Goddess-figure than you find in most fantasy books. Also much closer to how she was probably viewed in many primal cultures. Reminded me a lot of the NatAm and Inuit (especially the Inuit) conceptions of the divine mother. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me **http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:45:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "E. Angell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: More on casting. Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Stephanie wrote: > E Angell wrote: > How about the guy who played Claudio in "Much Ado.." as a young > Daren? > > Are you talking about Robert Sean Leonard from Dead Poets' > Society? I can't remember which character he was. > Yes, that's him. He played Claudio, who was a real jerk, but RSL was good, IMHO. sorry 'bout the one-liner, but I'm way too tired to do anymore. Zhai'helleva, 'S e do bheatha, & other nice things, Raindancer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 96 04:25:13 UT From: "Valerie Sanford" To: "mercedes lackey list" Subject: cast of characters Message-ID: I love this exercise. It makes my brain hurt and I watch every film, every piece of TV Fluff searching for the "perfect" one. Oh my - does this mean my job is too hard or too difficult? IMHO Homerun Suggestions: Jeremy Irons - Falconsbane Gates McFadden - Selaney Shalaman - Michael Dorn (much better than for Albericht as I sugested) ________ -- For Avery Brooks - What a HIT Just who - I think his "Hawk" character from Spenser was exceptional - who could he be? A few more thoughts latte'd up in Seattle: Albericht - Ed Harris - Huh? That's a good one right? Tarma - Cher Elcarth - David Hyde Pierce Orthallen -- Bob Hoskins Cyril - Harvey Kietel Dirk - Nick Cage Talia - Sherylynn Fenn (Twin Peaks) A few other questions: How do we get the next two Di books in print instead of "ready to go" Who do we have to write/talk to, buy things from. I'd love to help. Val ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:33:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "E. Angell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: cast of characters Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Oct 1996, Valerie Sanford wrote: > > A few more thoughts latte'd up in Seattle: > Aha! Another Washingtonian! Lots of fellow wet p[eople on the list, & it's STILL raining. Just a few (strange) thoughts, but mine were mocha'd up on Bainbridge Island. So there. :-) I dunno if this really counts as an OBmisty, but how long does it take Firebird to send out catalogs? I called in and left a message requesting one a while ago, but nothing's arrived. Zhai'helleva, 'S e do bheatha, & other nice things, Raindancer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:51:00 +1000 (EST) From: tparavic-+AT+-ozemail.com.au To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Sorry! Message-ID: <199610060751.RAA18594-+AT+-oznet02.ozemail.com.au> I just realised that I sent a message yesterday to julie via the list rather than private e-mail. I humbly beg for forgiveness, it was a honest (but incredibly stupid) muistake. Typical, my first posts to the list in 3 weeks (don't you just love exams?), and they're a mistake and its subsquent apology! The next time will be better, I promise (can't get any worse!) Wind to thy Wings, Tamara "Sweetie, the last mosquito that bit me had to check into the Betty Ford Clinic." - Patsy, 'Absolutely Fabulous' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:42:28 +0100 (BST) From: Melanie Dymond Harper To: mercedes-lackey Subject: Storm Breaking sighted in London Message-ID: <199610061042.LAA04364-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> For those of you in the UK who've been waiting for Storm Breaking, and/or those in Europe who order your books from the UK rather than the US, just to let you know that I saw _Storm Breaking_ in hardback (UK edition rather than US, I believe) and _Storm Rising_ in paperback (this may not be news) in New Worlds on Charing Cross Road yesterday evening. (Their phone number is in the list FAQ, if people need it.) Cheers Mel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 14:15:10 -0400 From: LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: What Misty reads/How she works/Fluff: LotPW-Lilac F. & Cenny Message-ID: <961006141507_119869690-+AT+-emout15.mail.aol.com> A recent ObMisty asked "What does Misty read?" I have a copy of an article that appeared in the magazine VOYA in Oct. 92. At one point, the interviewer asks Misty what she reads: "I still read all my old favorites [Andre Norton and Anne McCaffrey were mentioned earlier], plus: Charles de Lint, Katherine Kurtz, Ellen Kushner, Steve Stirling, Tanya Huff, Ru Emerson, Tom Deitz, Allan Steele, Guy Gavriel Kay, both Haldemans, Pauline Gedge, Elizabeth Peters, Elizabeth Goudge, Sara Paretsky, Barbara Hambly, Elizabeth Scarborough, Vonda McIntyre...that's just off the top of my head, there's a lot more." There's also a bit where Larry Dixon describes their system for writing a novel: "As you may, or may not know, Misty was C.J. Cherryh's protege. Misty learned the early form of what we use as an outline from her. It follows: 1) Statement of intent: a few paragraphs that capture the essence of the "point" of the book. This is also a handy thing to send an agent or editor, to say "here's what I have in mind", since it's an easy to shallow bite of information. 2) First Outline: Generally four to six pages, with the events and beginning pacing notes. No dialogue or introspection. 3) Extended Outline: This is the key to our massive productivity. We also refer to it as the "framework" or "skeleton". It is a forty to sixty page outline. It as the characters, introspection "roughed in", events and reactions, personal notes of what to emphasize, and page and chapter-break notes. 4) Finished Text: We write no less than ten pages of finished text per book per day. In an extended outline, one page of outline translates almost exactly to ten pages of finished text. One page of outline = one day's work. The extended outline is best, however, for pacing and revision. When you have this sheaf of paper, which is a refined "minimalist" version of the novel, you have in effect written a first draft without the page-filling effort. You can then turn one page and see where you will be ten pages from where you are now." This is a very smart way of working , AS FAR AS IT GOES. The idea of using the extended outline as a first draft to work out pacing and plot points is excellent. (So why are Misty's endings often so rushed and unsatisfying? Why does she sometimes wander around the story for most of a book and then have way too much happening in the last 10-20 pages?) What I don't see here is a final draft for sanding off rough edges and polishing. I've always found that it's crucial when writing ANYTHING to finish your next to last draft, put the thing away for at least a few days, preferably longer, then go back and reread the whole thing and edit like mad. Of course, this assumes that you can finish enough ahead of your deadline to have time for this. But if you're as organized and businesslike as Larry implies they are, this shouldn't be a problem. It's so frustrating. I've been rereading Misty's stuff lately, and there's so much in these books that is GOOD, and there is so much sloppiness. Sigh. ---------------- The rest of this post is as fluffy as a cloud...as cotton candy...as a little sheep...and contains a teensy SB spoilerette (sort of). To the Ladies of the Pink Wand: thank you for your generous congratulations on the Lilac Fairy's "new" job. This is her dream job; she is sooooo happy!!!!! The party is next weekend. ALL of our adored Objects of Unrequited Love/Lust are going to be there, except, of course, Cennydd, because he's much too busy with Real Life to have any time for us. (And after all the time we spent sitting at his feet, gazing up at him with adoration, laughing at his wit, applauding his ecdysiastic ebullitions!) On Thu, 3 Oct the Lilac Fairy playfully teased Cennydd: > At the moment, the usually adorable Cennydd is not in favor with the Lilac Fairy, as he has apparently abandoned us for Real Life. << and he replied: >>However, I must admit that reality (such as it ever is around me) has been making its sordid little demands upon my resources (vast though they may be). **snip** Anyway, if you wish to be so fickle and cruel as to turn on me at this point, I have one thing to say: "Uh-uh, Miss Thang, don't even go there. Don't make me read you!" =)<< Ohhhhhhh, no one has EVER called the Lilac Fairy "Miss Thang" before! She likes it! And what's this fickle business- who deserted whom here? As the Lilac Fairy said, you gave Real Life a higher priority than our silly fantasy games -you are behaving like a sensible, mature adult. The Lilac Fairy simply can't have that. Then Cen wrote: >> Yay!!!!! Congratulations! [on the "new" job] *The Mage is so happy for his beloved Fee des Lilas that he invents, in her honor, the Ecstatic Ecdysiast Ebullition*! *The Ecstatic Ecdysiast Ebullition can best be thought of as a Happy Hamster Hop, done to the final portion of Ravel's Bolero, and involving progressively fewer sartorial distractions. <<< Thank you for your kind wishes, dear sir. The Ecstatic Ecdysiast Ebullition was certainly-ulp, er, exuberant! Hey, wait a minute! If you think the Lilac Fairy can be distracted from her snit by an enticing display of your manly charms, you must think she's a shallow, frivolous, giddy mooncalf! Oh. Yes. Hummmm. Okay, she'll have to give you that one. Oh well, it doesn't really matter, anyway. The Ladies of the Pink Wand have been soooo busy of late. Vanyel and 'Lendel/Stefan have been coming by the Bower fairly often to play and sing for their admiring Ladies. Richard St. Vier flirts playfully with us, and Alec makes deliciously bitchy remarks. One evening earlier this week Silverfox came by and taught us some lovely new hair braiding tricks. And of course, we're all learning mask-making so we can give love and support to poor, darling Firesong in his time of need. So, really, Cen, you go on back to your Real Life. Don't even THINK about your adoring admirers. We'll be so busy with our OTHER Objects of Unrequited Love/Lust, we probably won't even notice you're gone. The Lilac Fairy Lady of the Pink Wand Lee Cox San Francisco Performing Arts Library & Museum (SF PALM) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:53:43 -0500 (CDT) From: GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu To: MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK Subject: Elves Message-ID: <961006135343.22a8316f-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu> 'm replying for my other personallity (Tim aka Carrach) who is lying on the floor stabbed through the heart. Julie wrote: >Tim (I think) said: >>Here here, HTH! I agree totally! And I don't care if it gets me kicked >>off the list, I LOVE the SERRAted Edge and Bedlam Bard stuff. Vanyel's >>bod is nice, but give me Kory any day! Maybe the problem with Misty's >>current loose streak is too many pots in the fire. Although, I'd hat >>to give up any of the series. I really liked Sacred Ground and If I pay >>Thee not In Gold, too. Yes, I am a heretic. (See tongue stick out). >Just for the record, I loved Serrated Edge, Bedlam Bards and Di Tregarde. I >thought Sacred Ground was good too. Looks like I join the heretic crowd! Carrach says: not me! I don't know anything about Vanyel's bod! Honest! I wasn't even that thrilled with Kory. In fact I identified more with Eric. Dax the Eternal says: That quote should be attributed to me (I know the T's get to ya don't they? All five kid's names start with T too!) But, *weg* I had a great laugh from your little boo boo! Now, Dax replying for herself: Kimi said: >how it is that Underhill exists, if elves can't create except when copying. >So they must have touched on the human world first, AFAIK the premis is that elves existed first but after thousands of years they ran out of ideas. So, when humans came around and started taking everything over, it gave the elves something to spark them again. They began challenging them to jousting and duels and interfering with mortal life (BtR). Because they interacted with humans so much, the Seelie actually have kept some of their creativity, they can at least see somethin and improve on it in many ways. The Unseelie, refused for many more years to have anything to do with mortals and they have lost any creativity at all (Chrome Circle). Also, in Chrome Circle, Tannim says that all of underhill is a copy of something, whether real or fantasy that the elves had come across and decided they liked, then they decorated it to their liking. I think part of the reason for that, is that Underhill h said has the psychotropic mists that try to get you to make it formed. IMHO that is also why some of the Hames ceased to exist, the elves all went into Dreaming, and when no longer interacting with the mists, the mist returned to their original shape and then the comatose elves become prey to the nasties that are wandering around. >How is it that with all >the time characterized by living in the magic world that they don't have >any weakness or show any signs of being shaped by it except for the iron >thing and the fact that they can use magic. Actually, there are a lot of other things they are affected by: Caffeine, acts as a narcotic The Dreaming, where they forget who and what they are and if it goes on long enough, they can just cease to exist. An elf can touch and hold ghosts while in physical form as well as astral. >I don't think Icewolf was going that far; I got more of a feel of defending >the dreamy other worldly parts of fantasy, which yes, can be escapist. Just >an opinion *grin* *ducks behind her Drifting Ashes membership just in >case* As for sentimentalized bedtime stories... all right, I have a >weakness for them anyway. We need a little of both the dense, serious >elements that those books characterize as being a part of other fields >~and~ the fun in fantasy. There are, granted, other ways of going about it, >inserting humour, poetry, and fun. But I um, think that Icewolf was trying >to say that fantasy is different from other fields because it has those >"bedtime stories" in it. BUT if we say fantasy ~is~ mostly juvenile >stories, then, we might as well just call it that. We don't. Because there >are points in fantasy that you don't see elsewhere, and that's what makes >it unique. I agree with Kimi on the first part, but I think those ~bedtime~ stories can be found in any literature that you read. (Even autobiographies and history) It is said that there are only about 500 plots in the world and people just put new characters and scenery in them. (OH, Carrach says that is a dreary thought, one which I don't truly agree with either). As for all fantasy being juvenile stories, I for one wouldn't want my 9 year old to read everything out there thats labeled "Fantasy". >P.S. Alright so I couldn't enforce anything tougher than that. ::laugh:: I >had the dubiously wonderful experience of being fought over again by my >admirers *preen* My 4 year old cousins. *giggle* Over whether I could be >their sister and how I should be divvied up *laugh* Cheers, Kimeroonie. =) Kimi, I want to get into the fight and I want you to be my sister too! Tim says that he wants to adopt you for a daughter, he loves your sense of humor (He is of course, VASTLY older than I am!) Okay, so he's technically 4 months younger. :) Thanks for the space folks! (Uh, I think that should have had a comma some where in there) Dax the Eternal, Lady of the Unicorns |"Science and medicine, these are noble |pursuits and necessary to sustain life, |But art, music, beauty and love, thse are |the things for which we stay alive." -DPS ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 13:58:26 -0600 From: Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-BAYLOR.EDU To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.UK Cc: Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-ccis01.baylor.edu Subject: I don't bloody believe this... Message-ID: Mainly that anyone around here who ever claimed to even VAGUELY know me could believe I would be talking down to them. You. What-the-hell-ever. In my subject line, I was actually taking a shot at myself and my tendency to ramble on about the technical aspects of writing when it comes to Misty and my complete inablity to apply them when it comes to the stuff I'm "supposed" to be doing (like Blake, Swift, etc.). Secondly, if so many of you were as upset as you seemed to be, I really wish you'd have emailed me personally instead of venting on the list. I have already privately emailed one or two of you regarding this, but having slogged through messages that called me a snob and worse in public, I thought maybe a public response was merited after all. Disagree with me, fine. A good example was the message titled "some non-doctoral thoughts...*grin*." (I do apologize that I don't give the writer, but a glitch in my email does not display it if you don't ask for it, and I zapped it before I had decided to respond.) But don't rant and rave at me in public and force the rest of the list to read it. -Lyn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:47:12 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Message from Internet Message-ID: <199610061509_MC1-A1C-C4C5-+AT+-compuserve.com> Jake - that was a **horrible** thing to do!!!!! Incoming coconuts (pelting jake lightly) Have we ever even *heard* of a FAT HERALD?!?!? why not? are there any overwight people in Velgarth? Well, come to think of it, with only meat pies, cheese, fruit, and veggies to eat who'd be fat no wonder they're all skinny! (thinking back guiltily on the black forest cake with turtle fudge ice cream she ate for dessert last night) Firemist ps - misty should market that as a new diet craze - eat nothing but meat pies, cheese, fruit and veggies! get so sick of it you stop eating after 3 days! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:46:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Jaguar To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Message from Internet Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Oct 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote: > Jake - that was a **horrible** thing to do!!!!! Incoming coconuts (pelting > jake lightly) > Hey, you started it! Oh...all right, I started it. Damn, and Catherine had to pick this moment to leave the list...I'm going to have to forward that to her! > Have we ever even *heard* of a FAT HERALD?!?!? why not? are there any > overwight people in Velgarth? Well, come to think of it, with only meat pies, > cheese, fruit, and veggies to eat who'd be fat no wonder they're all > skinny! (thinking back guiltily on the black forest cake with turtle fudge ice > cream she ate for dessert last night) > No fat Heralds...they don't sit around long enough to get fat. I think there were probably a few fat people...or not. Come to think of it, I think the only people we've seen so far are fighter-types. I don't think we've seen any main characters who are civilians. Blues and Hawkbrothers don't count, they still do some sort of strenuous public service type thing. You know what I mean. Anyway...we don't see any of that! Waaah! Am I making any sort of sense? Sorry if I'm not, I just had a homecoming dance thingy last night and a huge practice PSAT this morning. :( --------------------------------- JAGUAR -------------------------------------- Leader of the Cat People "... intimidating. Ex-marine, I understand." Goddess of Large Hunter Cats "I'm an ex-mercenary, I never intimidated Chronicler of the Mage Wars anyone. I killed them." Lady in Green -- Kermit, KF:tLC -----MageWar Archives: http://www.sidwell.edu/~rholsen/magewar/archives.html--- ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 863 *********************************