MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 864

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Braid: Trek actors/Tiger Burning Bright/Urban fantasy/short
	by myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
  2) Re: Message from Internet
	by "Jenna Wilson ~Stormcloud~" <JENNA-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU>
  3) psychometry
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
  4) Re: psychometry
	by ldt107-+AT+-psu.edu (Lia D. Talmas)
  5) tee hee ... it's long ... *weg*
	by aw2-+AT+-mail.idt.net (Kimberly)
  6) Hair again (sorry...)
	by FISCHER  CHELSEA <Chelsea.Fischer-+AT+-Colorado.EDU>
  7) "Mitque oyasin"
	by FISCHER  CHELSEA <Chelsea.Fischer-+AT+-Colorado.EDU>
  8) More Tregarde? / Misty involved in fandom?
	by "Heather D. Wegemer" <hwegemer-+AT+-cwconnect.ca>
  9) Movie Casting, religion, and Florian
	by Amy Trivitt <atrivitt-+AT+-nmt.edu>
 10) Right jab, left hook
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
 11) Tigana
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
 12) casting/hair
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
 13) Re: Chosen/ Travel / Moving / SB concerns /
	by "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" <Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au>
 14) Re: Golden Dawn/crowley
	by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
 15) Alberich's Companion
	by RIB - Richard Bertelsen <rib-+AT+-scanjour.dk>
 16) RE: SERRAted Edge
	by "Stephanie    " <CALLISSD-+AT+-ed.concord.wvnet.edu>
 17) Meeting Misty
	by RIB - Richard Bertelsen <rib-+AT+-scanjour.dk>
 18) Re: Alberich's Companion
	by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu
 19) Hail to the Victors
	by Sandra K Haas <sandrah-+AT+-umich.edu>
 20) Shaman/Seafire/Renshai/HA/Swordspoint/Psychometry
	by Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:56:22 +0000
From: myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid: Trek actors/Tiger Burning Bright/Urban fantasy/short
Message-ID: <199610062151.QAA26193-+AT+-cdale3.midwest.net>

E. Angell wrote:
>>>Hey, what about Nana Visitor?  ;-) They are all good, tho'. And I love
Mira Furlan, Bruce Boxleitner, Andreas Katsulas, Jason Carter, Claudia
Christian.....Guess who's the local B5 freak?  :-) <and tonight is the
first ep of the Final Five!!!!!><<<

I forgot about her! And Terry Farrel, too. And guess what? I love Babylon
5, too! Hey! I just got an idea: How about Leonard Nimoy for Randale in
LHM? And Majel Barrett (Lwaxana Troi) as Lady Treesa?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Arysta wrote:
>>>Okay, butting in AGAIN.  No quotes, sorry.  Obviously both Eric and `Lendel
had this particular trait.  I want to say that there was a bit with Stef,
too.  And others, possibly.  Maybe this is one of those "almost archetypes"
-- something that Misty likes to characterize someone and she uses over and
over.  If that`s so -- it WOULD stick in the mind more than another trait. 
Could I be on the right path here?<<<

You know what? Okay, description time: Heart shaped face, big brown eyes,
brown hair, and very short. Who is this? It sounds quite a bit like Talia,
doesn't it? Add "waist length" to the brown hair. Voila -- it's Di
Tregarde! Like the floppy hair, it's recycled description, IMO. But I think
she does a good job of really individualizing these characters, the
descriptions don't much matter -- though I think if Talia and Di met in
person, they'd both be surprised as heck.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joan wrote:
>>>This is one of my favorite co-authored titles ... and I agree with your
choice of author/character connections.  As for Leopold ... he reminded me
of Adele, the ability to see the angels notwithstanding ... so maybe MZB?
But who did the evil guy (the enemy King's advisor) - whose name I can't
remember?  He sorta reminds me of Ma'ar in a weird way ... so that might
make 2 Misty characters.  Who would be Norton's second? That sea-captain
guy?  Hmmm ...  let's chat!  I'd be willing to do private email if there's
not enough interest on-list.<<<

I loved Tiger Burning Bright. It's probably one of the most satisfying
books I've read. My favorite character was Leopold... don't ask me why.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Julie wrote:
>>>Just for the record, I loved Serrated Edge, Bedlam Bards and Di Tregarde. I
thought Sacred Ground was good too. Looks like I join the heretic crowd!
(Not that thats anything new!) And the comment about "sounds like some of
it was writen for teenagers", well, I'm not longer a teenager, maybe thats
why I enjoyed them. I'd love to be a teenager again! Maybe its just my way
of being the teenager I left behind so many years ago!<<<

Yes! I loved the Bedlam Bards and Di Tregarde, too! I haven't read Serrated
Edge yet, but I'd really love to -- I'm immune to tar & feather, BTW <big,
innocent, Data-on-emotion-chip grin> But to me, the Bedlam Bards books
proved quite emotional, and that's what pretty much counts for a book to be
good for me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Firemist wrote:
>>>obmisty: when is tor going to let us have Arcanium 101?!?!?!? howl
yes, I too am a card-carrying member of the 'I like Di, Serrated edge, Bedlam 
Bards, The fire rose and Sacred Ground' club.<<<

Heck, aren't there two Di Tregarde books that's ready to be published but
TOR is holding out on them? One's Arcanium 101 and the other's Triangle
Park, IIRC. I fervently hope that they will publish those books, because I
absolutely loved the Di Tregarde investigations.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Raindancer wrote:
<snip>>> BTW, Isn't Talia short? I *know* there's
a scene in AoTQ, right after it's skipped a year or two, where it
describes the changes in her and says she is "would never be tall.."
I do remember this, I'm sure, 'cause I *really* liked seeing a fantasy
heroine (besides Lessa) who isn't completely tall & beautiful... it makes
them more real and makes me feel better when one of my fave characters is
small too ;-)<<<

Well, it makes me feel better because I'm only 5'2", and most of my friends
tower over me, and I'm no raving beauty. Somehow, I seem to be able to be
more involved in the reading when the character isn't so perfect and
righteous and logical and rational all the time (on the last two, the three
exceptions are Spock, Data, and Tuvok, and the Vulcan's aren't rational all
the time).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yippee! I'm done!!! Bye folksies!!!

Everything spiffy & fabu,
Summersong, occasionally Spiffy the Cat (can't wait till DS9 season premiere!)

****************************************************
Akiko Hirao  | "You must tell him that he's a good cat, 
<myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net> | a pretty cat, and ..." -- Data
Trekker, Trekkie Trekaholic | "I will feed him." -- Worf
No affiliation, just a solo act |  ST:TNG "Phantasms"
****************************************************


------------------------------

Date:          Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:58:17 EST
From: "Jenna Wilson ~Stormcloud~" <JENNA-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU>
To: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>, mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk,
Subject: Re: Message from Internet
Message-ID: <18A2B47808-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU>

> Have we ever even *heard* of a FAT HERALD?!?!? why not? are there any
> overwight people in Velgarth? Well, come to think of it, with only meat pies,
> cheese, fruit, and veggies to eat who'd be fat <g> no wonder they're all
> skinny! (thinking back guiltily on the black forest cake with turtle fudge ice
> cream she ate for dessert last night)

No... because would _you_ be fat if you had Alberich and Kerowyn 
beating you up every day for your whole trainee-hood?  You'd get in 
shape real fast, and keep it up because being in shape could mean 
your life!  :)

 -+AT+->--- 
Jenna, Lady of the Mists, Heathen #081 :) 
Mistress of Hot Caffeinated Beverages, Goddess of Chat Rooms 
and Obsession, High Priestess of the Onmiscient Undine :), LotPW 
~ Stormcloud, Temporary Leader of OiB ~ ** Jenna-+AT+-simcl.stjohns.edu **  
** http://members.tripod.com/~Stormcloud/ (personal page) **

"If anything on this ship is more important than my ego, I want it 
hunted down and shot!"  -Zaphod Beeblebrox

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:59:20 -0400
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: psychometry
Message-ID: <199610061951_MC1-A6E-91DC-+AT+-compuserve.com>


NightShade corrected my psychomatris flub - told me he thought Lisa P
meant psychometry.

I don't know - kinda seems like Talia can do that. <specifically thinking of
when Ylsa dies> she could, herm, maybe not. <ponders> Who was it that
said she could track emotions and if they were strong enough she'd See 
it - it was Talia right? Wouldn't a murderer's weapon contain enough of an emotional 'stain' that she'd be able to read it and possibly See it? So, wonder
what would happen if she ever picked up a bandit's blade <thinking of the
bandits Tarma hunted down in "Sword-Sworn"> ::sudden grin:: makes me
think of Keepers training on darkover - wonder if they are also taught not to
touch strange, unknown items?

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 19:52:26 -0400
From: ldt107-+AT+-psu.edu (Lia D. Talmas)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: psychometry
Message-ID: <199610070048.UAA108052-+AT+-r05n01.cac.psu.edu>

Firemist wrote (interspersed with my comments):

>I don't know - kinda seems like Talia can do that. <specifically thinking of
>when Ylsa dies> she could, herm, maybe not. <ponders> Who was it that
>said she could track emotions and if they were strong enough she'd See 
>it - it was Talia right? Wouldn't a murderer's weapon contain enough of an
emotional 'stain' that she'd be able to read it and possibly See it?

tracking emotions does seem to be a method of clairvoyancy, like when
psychics pick up an object owned by a missing person and can track what
happened to him/her.  however, i always looked at tracking emotions as an
extension of her receptive Empathy.  i don't know who said it, but i
remember Talia doing it.  In my humble opinion, a murderer's weapon *might*
contain enough of a stain, depending on several variables, such as time
passed since the murder.  Also, what if the person was totally detached
emotionally, say drugged or drunk and the person doing the killing had no
emotions toward the victim?  then, she wouldn't be able to see it.

> So, wonder
>what would happen if she ever picked up a bandit's blade <thinking of the
>bandits Tarma hunted down in "Sword-Sworn"> ::sudden grin:: makes me
>think of Keepers training on darkover - wonder if they are also taught not to
>touch strange, unknown items?

i haven't read enough of Darkover to answer that question, but if Talia ever
picked up a bandit's blade, i would suggest she have a Healer nearby just in
case. :)

Lara of Silverwoods
(stepping out of lurkdom for a moment....i hate exams)


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 20:50:58 -0500
From: aw2-+AT+-mail.idt.net (Kimberly)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: tee hee ... it's long ... *weg*
Message-ID: <v01540b01ae7df4ef2335-+AT+-[169.132.99.74]>

Heya, all! :)

Our object of lust and my uncle Gaelic *snicker* wrote:

>Kimi-chan, just two tiny points here.  A) the correct phonetic spelling
>for "fee des lilas" is 'fay day leelah' (Ok, that isn't IPA, but you get
>the idea).  The 's' at the end of "lilas" is silent in French.

::blush:: ARGH!! Je l'ai su... *bangs her head on the keyboard* why-oh-why
did I type that if I knew it, I can't even begin to say, though.
Apologies...

BTW, Cenny? I finally figured out why seeing your name as "Ken Hyde" scared
the bejeezus out of me ::laugh:: It's because I changed it in my head to
"Mr. Hyde" I kept on expecting you to change the header to "Dr. Jekyll"
*sheepish gryn*

>> *grumble* Is my sentence as a squirrel up by ~now~ yet? *giggle*
>
>I don't know.  Have you died, been reborn, lived out your squirrel
>existence and come back as Kimi-chan?

If I say yes and I'm lying does that mean I get to spend a second lifetime
as a squirrel? ::laugh:: Hey, um, everyone, who else has been sentenced by
our Karmic Master here? *weg*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lilac Fairy, did I congratulate you or was I too much of a boor? Ai yi... I
didn't, did I? ::guilty look::

CONGRATULASHUNS!!!! (tithe to the Golden Tuppings) *hug*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lady Alicorn (can I call you Flax? *giggle*)/Tim wrote:

>'m replying for my other personallity (Tim aka Carrach) who is lying on
>the floor stabbed through the heart.

Ha-ha! Does that mean he's ~actually~ stabbed through the heart or does
that mean he's like Mac in _When the Bough Breaks_ and we only ~think~ he's
stabbed through the heart? *chortle*

>Kimi said:
>>how it is that Underhill exists, if elves can't create except when copying.
>>So they must have touched on the human world first,
>
>AFAIK the premis is that elves existed first but after thousands of years
>they ran out of ideas.

*weg* I'd love to think humans have done the same... but since China's been
around for a few thousand years I don't think I'm allowed. Aw, shucks
*gryn*

<snip>

Okay. But if Underhill existed before the elves, someone had to have
thought of the elves... anyone think it was their God/dess? Now, who came
first, the Goddess or the elves? ::innocent look::  *weg*

>I think part of the reason for that, is that Underhill h
>said has the psychotropic mists that try to get you to make it formed.
>IMHO that is also why some of the Hames ceased to exist, the elves
>all went into Dreaming, and when no longer interacting with the mists,
>the mist returned to their original shape and then the comatose elves
>become prey to the nasties that are wandering around.

*confuzzlement* Elfhames cease to exist because they elves are no longer
thinking about them? Hmmm... interesting. That means once you stop thinking
about something, it stops existing. Scary. Can't get a case of amnesia
there. *gryn*

But how do the elves become pray to nasties? They have their own powers,
they'd be stranded in the human world. Someone like Perenor could have
zapped them. I guess the Unseleighe could have too but in such numbers...
*thinking* probably Misty's scarier than I thought ::laugh::

<snip correction to elvish powers> *gryn* I stand corrected.

<snip me ranting>
>I agree with Kimi on the first part, but I think those ~bedtime~ stories can
>be found in any literature that you read. (Even autobiographies and history)

I should hope so *cheer* Except for some of the UFO stories, but I refuse
to count that as literature. *gryn*

SOW, I was at Barnes and Noble yesterday, in the New Age section, and while
I was reaching for Cunningham, I watched someone pull off a truly ~wierd~
selection of books. One on UFO's, psychic powers, one on "the black arts"
one that said something like "Tatania's book of spells" whatever the heck
that is, and another on Faery Wicca. *gryn* I wish I'd had a mirror to
watch myself silently freaking out.

>  It is said that there are only about 500 plots in the world and people just
>put new characters and scenery in them.  (OH, Carrach says that is a dreary
>thought, one which I don't truly agree with either).

NONONONONONO!! Terrible thought. *shudder*

>As for all fantasy being juvenile stories, I for one wouldn't want my 9
>year old to read everything out there thats labeled "Fantasy".

*curiousity* Does your nine year old have an opinion on that stand?

>Kimi, I want to get into the fight and I want you to be my sister too!

*hug* ::laugh:: Ah, but with you I can't discuss the fascinations of
digging holes in the beach for fathers to fall into. *weg* My brother and I
did that when we were at the beach around our sandcastles, years ago, BTW.
My dad fell into it and broke it running toard the hotel to go to the
bathroom. I remember trying to decide between yelling at him for having
broken the castle or helping him out. *ROFL!-+AT+-*

But anyway, I'm already your listsib ::laugh:: and I ~did~ greet you (I
hope... hey, for the newbies, Herald Michal is having server problems so so
much for the VUEWEC for now *sheepish gryn*) and if you petition Lady
Thess, I can be your sister-goddess *laugh-hug*

>Tim says that he wants to adopt you for a daughter, he loves your sense of
>humor (He is of course, VASTLY older than I am!) Okay, so he's technically
>4 months younger.  :)

*weg* I don't ever get any marriage proposals... maybe it's that trollish
air I have about me *giggle*

*sobers* Thank you, Tim.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ObMisty: er... what does the dedication in _Sacred Ground_ mean?

"To those who were here first   Mitque oyasin"

And does Misty have a thing with the name David for guys that are jerks but
come around? David Spotted Horse, Dave of the Di Tregarde investigations...
ah, well, it was but a thought. *gryn*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Love you all,

Kimberdoodley
aw2-+AT+-mail.idt.net

"Cock-a-doodle-doo!" -- some odd scene that's been running through  my head
which I think is from Peter Pan :) :)



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:16:29 -0600 (MDT)
From: FISCHER  CHELSEA <Chelsea.Fischer-+AT+-Colorado.EDU>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Hair again (sorry...)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.961006190850.14014B-100000-+AT+-ucsu.Colorado.EDU>


going back to that whole "floppy hair" thingie... i'm now an official
member of the "It's just something Misty *does*" club...

"He lay slightly turned on his side, his hair tumbled in his eyes..."
"He" = Andre le Brel ...quote from _Children_of_the_Night_. <sigh> i think
it's just something misty likes to do with her male characters... to show
vulnerability, or somesuch...

chelsea

disclaimer: the above probably makes no sense... deal with it.   :)
  
may love and light guide you on your way... & *never* play strip tarot.
chelsea.fischer-+AT+-colorado.edu     http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~ccfische/
caf0001-+AT+-jove.acs.unt.edu         http://www.unt.edu/~caf0001
"the limits of my language are the limits of my world." -- Wittgenstein


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:24:48 -0600 (MDT)
From: FISCHER  CHELSEA <Chelsea.Fischer-+AT+-Colorado.EDU>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: "Mitque oyasin"
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.961006192106.21448A-100000-+AT+-ucsu.Colorado.EDU>

On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Kimberly wrote:

> ObMisty: er... what does the dedication in _Sacred Ground_ mean?
> 
> "To those who were here first   Mitque oyasin"

"Mitayuke Oyasin" (the way i've seen it spelled before) means something
along the lines of "We are all One" *and* "We are all family" 
...it's a saying of one (or more) of the Native American tribes...
sorry i don't know which one...

chelsea

disclaimer: the above probably makes no sense... deal with it.   :)
  
may love and light guide you on your way... & *never* play strip tarot.
chelsea.fischer-+AT+-colorado.edu     http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~ccfische/
caf0001-+AT+-jove.acs.unt.edu         http://www.unt.edu/~caf0001
"the limits of my language are the limits of my world." -- Wittgenstein



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 00:26:48 +0000
From: "Heather D. Wegemer" <hwegemer-+AT+-cwconnect.ca>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: More Tregarde? / Misty involved in fandom?
Message-ID: <199610070427.AAA16207-+AT+-cwconnect.ca>

myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao) wrote
> Heck, aren't there two Di Tregarde books that's ready to be published but
> TOR is holding out on them? One's Arcanium 101 and the other's Triangle
> Park, IIRC. I fervently hope that they will publish those books, because I
> absolutely loved the Di Tregarde investigations.

Actually, she hasn't written them, and last I heard it was Ms.
Lackey, rather than Tor, that has deemed them not worth finishing. 
This tends to agree with the e-mail I got from Tor when I asked
about rumours that Arcanum 101 and Triangle Park would not be
written. Word from AOL has her saving Diana Tregarde for short
stories.


Somebody else had previously mentioned a hope that Ms. Lackey's
appearance at Dragon*Con betokened a willingness to become more
heavily involved in fandom again . . ..  Not to be negative, but
from what I've heard, I rather doubt it.  Take, for example, that
despite filkish roots, we have been informed that Ms. Lackey
_will_not_ perform at Dragon*Con . . . though she'd love to see her
fans doing so.

<personal opinion><heresy> She writes well enough, with some
_really_ good books, but as a human being . . . *shakes head* it
doesn't seem likely that she'll actually be getting back involved
with the people who admire her work any time
soon.</heresy></personal opinion> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:42:50 -0600 (MDT)
From: Amy Trivitt <atrivitt-+AT+-nmt.edu>
To: Mercedes Lackey Digest <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Movie Casting, religion, and Florian
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.961006232922.12081A-100000-+AT+-quartz>


	I know this is a bit late from the posting but PLEASE don't cast Wyona
Ryder as Elspeth it just won't work for one Wyona really isn't a good
actor.  Make Wyona Hulda, neither of them can act.  I vote Sean Connerry
as Ancars father he does a very good regal act.  How about Tom Cruise as
Selenay's ex.?  We definately wouldn't be seeing much of him (sorry fans,
I don't mind his acting but after Mission Impossible and him killing off
christian Slater so fast I have to get even.)  Mark Hamil definately
wouldn't make a good Dirk, he would make a better Council member or an
alternate for Alberich.  
	I don't want to sound like a B*tch or anything but can we get off
the religion (using term loosly to avoid nasty messages) bashing.  I have
nothing against discousing (sp) it but having twenty messages saying the
same thing with nothing remotely Misty oriented in the message is
redicoulous (sp again).  If you don't like my feelings please respond
privately to me.

OB Misty:  Florian's identity:  I don't think you can go with the hair
flipping.  Alot of Misty's characters flipp their hair.  I can think of
passages in LHM where Starwind and Moonsong both had flipped their hair.
If we go with hair flipping include Amberdrake, since he was continually
flipping his hair.


Gotta Go have a class real early tomorrow/today.
Amy Trivitt
atrivitt-+AT+-nmt.edu


------------------------------

Date:        Mon, 07 Oct 1996 00:53:59 CST
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Right jab, left hook
Message-ID:  <07OCT96.00971950.0117.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

Something in all charity for people communicating via e-mail to
remember.  We don't know you.  You can't say, "Anyone who knows me would
realize that I would never mean x when I say y." We *don't* know you, or
what you're like, or what you'd do.  We know only what you reveal about
yourself through your posts, and so it is extremely important to express
yourself well and make your meaning clear in order to be interpreted as
you hoped you would be.

The other thing to realize is that when you make a post to the list, you
are not carrying on a private conversation.  If you offend someone on
the list, you have offended them in a public place, and it is not
unreasonable for that person to want to respond in the same way.  What
you say on this list can and will be answered on this list.  If I had
responded by criticizing Icewolf's wardrobe or her mother's sexual
habits, that would have been out of line, but responding to what she
posted wasn't.
   Icewolf addressed both a private and a public response to my
comments, and so I'm acknowledging that both privately and publicly.
That's how the game is played.

I'm sorry if I made anyone sit through anything horribly unpleasant, and
I'm very glad Icewolf made it clear that insulting me was not her
objective.  That was nice of her, and I appreciate it.


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu

------------------------------

Date:        Mon, 07 Oct 1996 01:28:15 CST
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Tigana
Message-ID:  <07OCT96.01588565.0117.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

Firemist, that's an interesting attitude.  I thought Brennin (ack, er,
sp?) and Dianora were the best thing about Tigana.  IMO, Kay does an
outstanding job of demonstrating what about Brennin is loveable and why
he and Dianora are perfect for one another, all considerations of
revenge and politics aside.  They, as simple human beings, were good for
each other, even though concerns of the world interfered.

Remember, Dianora *was* furious when Brennin went to another woman after
she saved his life.  She decided that night (yet again) to kill him.
The next morning, he came back and apologized profusely, declared his
passionate love for her, and shortly thereafter reformed his entire
life, with her at the center, deciding to choose a future with her over
his obsession with the past.

Not a completely unloveable thing.

That night was the crisis of Brennin's revelation, the night he realized
what a mess he'd made of his life and the enormity of the mistakes he'd
made.  He was an emotional wreck, and couldn't bear to face Dianora
because he respected her and knew he had hurt her, among other people,
and because he and Dianora had a challenging relationship of equals.
That night, with his life collapsing around him, Brendin (um, is that
right?  Why can't I get his name straight?) was fragile and in pain, and
he didn't feel strong enough to confront this very strong woman.  He
wanted to be healed and held, and he was afraid that Dianora would not,
because, remember, she had made it her policy throughout their
relationship neither to coddle nor to coo over Brendin -- 'cause he had
that other woman for that.

The very next morning, he went to face her, and from that point on,
there was quite obviously no other woman in Brendin's life.  He chose
his companion that night in a moment of weakness -- and he knew it --
and he asked her forgiveness and never did the same thing again.  That
was the marvelous thing about that character: you watch him, through the
course of the book, realize what his mistakes were and fight like hell
to make restitution for them and turn his life around.  I thought it was
profound and moving, and I would have been deeply disappointed if
Dianora had been so petty as to punish him forever for one mistake
committed on a very chaotic, emotional, and difficult night by taking
from him the one thing he'd come to realize really, really mattered to
him: her love and respect.

In essence, that's the whole message about Brendin's character.  He
falls into the trap of having no pity.  He punishes Tigana for twenty
years because of one day when Tigana hurt him badly.  When Brendin
realizes how empty and useless his revenge has been, how turning his
pain outward against others has warped him instead of healing the loss
of his son, he lets go of it and is redeemed.  Tigana is all about
learning to forgive, to go beyond pain and find love, to choose grace
over hatred.  All of that would, I think, have been undercut if Dianora
had not been able to find it in herself to forgive Brendin, after all
they had given each other and shared with each other.

'Course, that's just my opinion.  You obviously had a different
perspective on the book and the characters.

ObMisty: Um.  Misty's characters never seem to reform.  Well, Withen and
Jervis, I think.  But other than that, I would say that the nasty people
pretty much never come to realize that this is a Bad Way to Live and try
to mend their ways.  The same, I guess, holds true for nice people.
They never seem to have any big revelations or change their way of
viewing life.  Maybe Vanyel, when he decides that 'Lendel wasn't so
weird for wanting to be a Herald.  Other than that, though, her
characters seem to be mainly static.  Hmm, Eric Banyon goes through a
lot of changes.
   Aha.  Davy is the best counterpart to Brendin.  He's not a great guy,
but there is something about him which is essentially admirable, and
through his efforts to redeem himself, he ultimately becomes something
more admirable than he had been.
   Gosh, I *loved* that book.  (Children of the Night, for those of you
who haven't read it and don't know where I'm getting this Davy guy.)
It's no real coincidence that my two favorite Misty storylines (CotN and
LHM) contain major characters who change profoundly through the course
of the story.  I appreciate that kind of thing.


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu
"The madness of demons is rage -- the madness of angels, hope."
   --A.A. Attanasio, *The Dragon and the Unicorn*

------------------------------

Date:        Mon, 07 Oct 1996 01:35:40 CST
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: casting/hair
Message-ID:  <07OCT96.01722189.0117.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

Actually, Hulda *could* act quite well, or no one would have believed
she was a harmless old lady for so long.  I hate believing that the
entire ruling class of Valdemar was just too dim to see through bad
acting.
   And I think Winona is a groovy actress.  Can't remember who I had her
playing on my own private cast list (which I *forgot* yet again to get
from my apartment when I was back there this weekend, drat it.) But
there's no arguing taste.

I laughed and laughed and laughed when I heard someone say they thought
Talia and Diana looked alike.  Yes, in those respects (height, general
face shape, eye color) I guess they did.  But Talia had curly, light
brown hair (almost gingery, I always thought), and Diana had long,
straight very dark hair.  Talia was cute and cuddly, but not beautiful.
Diana, OTOH, *was* gorgeous.  Remember, in Jinx High all the kids
thought she looked like Stevie Nicks?  Somehow, I can't envision Talia
looking anything like Stevie Nicks.  In my mind, they could hardly be
more different.


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu
"The madness of demons is rage -- the madness of angels, hope."
   --A.A. Attanasio, *The Dragon and the Unicorn*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:57:35 +0930
From: "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" <Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Chosen/ Travel / Moving / SB concerns /
Message-ID: <9610070727.AA62856-+AT+-bilbo.cc.flinders.edu.au>

Kerry wrote :
And then I'd bite the bullet and send in the team. And that's why I wouldn't
get chosen. :)

I'm not sure about that, I have just re-skimmed TMW and I seem to remeber
Gwena causing Falsonsbane to be impaled(sp) on Need and joyously trampling
Ancar into a bloody pulp - for revenge for Talia, Kris etc so I'm not sure
that expediency is a barrier to being Chosen. Certainly Selenay and Solaris
recognised it as being part and parcel of ruling.

#######################################################################
Heather wrote  
Actually, manymanymany people who traveled to America, at least, and I
suppose Australia had a similar experience, *did* go back to their home
countries, or had every intention of doing so.

I reckon I agree with Kerry here. Australia was mainly colonised as a
convict settlement (apart from South Australia) and very few actually went
home. Yes, some of the Governers and the military commanders went home -
some had problems ie Bligh!!! Mainly people came here for settlement - apart
from the Gold Rush days. Yes, they sent their children home to the "Old
Country" for some culture and education but generally came back to
Australia. It still explains the infrequent cultural cringe we have. 
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
She also wrote:
>You cheapen the entire genre by saying that trite moralization, 2-d
>characterization, and simplistic plots are fine for fantasy because,
>after all, it's only fantasy.  Fantasy is not the bastard stepsister of
>real writing.  It is not too trivial and ineffective to be expected live
>up to the same standards of excellence that we expect from "real"
>fiction.

Hear, hear - I could not agree more - in fact some authors use the genre to
explore issues that no "real" fiction would explore. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Firemist wrote:
If I wanted to live in a fantasy world - that's tough - either Keltia or the
Sunrunner
world, provided I had money

Yep me too - as a Ban droi on Keltia and a Sunrunner on the Sunrunner world

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Richard wrote
>I do hope I can contribute to the discussions as I have liked Misty's
writing since I met her in Sord ans Sorceress many years ago.

Like - really met her? - (GREEN)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have read all of the SB spoilers and comments and I have ordered the book
and so I will still read it - but I wonder if all of my listsibs who have
been so vehement about their concerns are going to send those concerns to
Misty - seems like we should - you remember what Thumper said ...... so tell
her (Misty) as well

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Firemist wrote
> only meat pies,cheese, fruit, and veggies to eat

Welcome to Australia where meat pies are a way of life.............
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//////////////////////////////////////////////////
Time to go home, being the only one in a empty Uni can be somewhat daunting
at times (PH over here)

May the Goddess light thy paths listsibs

Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda

PS Is Lady Thess around so we can be deified????
Regards

Ailsa

Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda
Head: Department of Nursing Practice
School of Nursing,
Flinders University of South Australia
Email:Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au
0r
nuanw-+AT+-flinders.edu.au
Phone:(work) 8201 3403
Address: School of Nursing,
                 Flinders University of SA, 
                 GPO Box 2100
                 Adelaide SA 5001
                            
" Nurse, Renunciate,  Dragon Friend & Herald-Healer"


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:56:20 +0100 (BST)
From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Golden Dawn/crowley
Message-ID: <9610070956.AA02866-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk>

Cennydd wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Barbara Slater wrote:
> 
> > Dion Fortune is another good author to get your hands on, if you can;
> > her stuff is reasonable and makes a pretty good read. Her background
> > seems to be the Golden Dawn Western Hermeticism school, but apparently
> > she broke with them for some reason, and then went her own way.
> 
> Hmmm.  I wonder if it had anything to do with the revelations about
> Aleister Crowley?  He was a very prominent and public member of the Temple
> of the Golden Dawn, and I imagine that I was not the only person to become
> deeply suspicious of the group after it was revealed that he was a major
> Satanist, particularly since he doesn't seem to have made a strong
> distinction between the two groups in his work.

Hmmm. As far as I can remember from what I read a few years back, just about
*everyone* at the time started off in the Golden dawn; and several of them
left to form their own splinter groups. In Crowley's case, that was the
Ordo Templi Orientis (sp?). I don't recall the exact chronology, but I
think he started off as a reasonably standard Quabbalist, and developed
his own system after he'd broken with the Golden dawn...



-- 
   _|_   Jerry Cullingford      jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk      (Work)
  / |    Hemel Hempstead, UK    jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk   (Home)
  \_|_                          jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com  (alternate)
\__/                            www.selune.demon.co.uk  (soon)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:13:17 +0100
From: RIB - Richard Bertelsen <rib-+AT+-scanjour.dk>
To: "'M.L. Post'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Alberich's Companion
Message-ID: <c=DK%a=_%p=scanjour%l=VIMS-961007121317Z-18-+AT+-vims.scanjour.dk>

Hi everybody!

Kimberly wrote

>>ObMisty: If Alberich's Companion is never seen with him, what does
<substitute in Companion's name here> ~do~? Oh, I can just see it now...
*giggle* Alberich's Companion, standing over the yearlings and colts and
fillies in Companion's Field, going "now, take your position! En garde!"
*snicker*>>

I remember that when Alberich was Keral's language teacher, it was 
suggested that the language lessons was done while Keral rode his horse
and Alberich his Companion, as that was a good way to use the time and
give Alberich more time with his Companion.

Richard




------------------------------

Date:          Mon, 7 Oct 1996 08:22:21 EST5EDT
From: "Stephanie    " <CALLISSD-+AT+-ed.concord.wvnet.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk, callissd-+AT+-ed.concord.wvnet.edu,
Subject: RE: SERRAted Edge
Message-ID: <404C115E1C-+AT+-ed.concord.wvnet.edu>

> Date sent:      Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:00:24 +0100 (BST)
> Send reply to:  mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
> From:           GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu
> To:             callissd-+AT+-ed.concord.wvnet.edu
> Subject:        RE: SERRAted Edge

> Here here, HTH!  I agree totally! And I don't care if it gets me kicked
> off the list, I LOVE the SERRAted Edge and Bedlam Bard stuff.  Vanyel's
> bod is nice, but give me Kory any day! Maybe the problem with Misty's
> current loose streak is too many pots in the fire.  Although, I'd hat
> to give up any of the series. I really liked Sacred Ground and If I pay
> Thee not In Gold, too.  Yes, I am a heretic. (See tongue stick out).
>

I agree!!!  I LOVE SERRAted Edge and Bedlam's Bard as well. So, it's 
unrealistic. Isn't it supposed to be?

Stephanie
aka Free Bard Kestrel

 
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly 
what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly 
disappear and be replaced be something even more bizarre and 
inexplicable.

There is another which states that this has already happened.

                                -Douglas Adams
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 
                               

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:57:08 +0100
From: RIB - Richard Bertelsen <rib-+AT+-scanjour.dk>
To: "'M.L. Post'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Meeting Misty
Message-ID: <c=DK%a=_%p=scanjour%l=VIMS-961007125708Z-22-+AT+-vims.scanjour.dk>

Hi!

Ailsa wrote

>>Like - really met her? - (GREEN)<<

No, I am sorry to say, I have only met Misty in her writings.

I sure would like to meet her "in the flesh", as I have met several
other
writers, Anne McCaffrey, David Brin and  C.J. Cherry among others, as I 
have allways found them very pleasant to talk with.

This comming weekend I will have the chance to meet Harry Harrison,
Brian Aldiss, Frederik Pohl, Sherryl Jordan and Bruce Sterling at a 
convention here in Copenhagen. I am looking forward very much to this.

Richard

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 08:58:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Alberich's Companion
Message-ID: <199610071358.AA179286696-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu>

> 
> Hi everybody!
> 
> Kimberly wrote
> 
> >>ObMisty: If Alberich's Companion is never seen with him, what does
> <substitute in Companion's name here> ~do~? Oh, I can just see it now...
> *giggle* Alberich's Companion, standing over the yearlings and colts and
> fillies in Companion's Field, going "now, take your position! En garde!"


I don't know how much of his free time is spent with his Companion, but in
one of the Arrows books, I remember Dirk(?) saying that whenever a Herald
dies, Alberich goes off alone with his Companion to grieve.  Not much for a
post, but I'm still recovering from this past weekend.

Unrelated comment for the day: Go Cats! I was lucky enough to see the
Northwestern Wildcats defeat the Michigan Wolverines for the second straight
year!  Apologies to those of you who don't like or don't care about sports,
but this is BIG!  What can I say...cut me, and I bleed purple.

Nina 


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 11:01:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sandra K Haas <sandrah-+AT+-umich.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Hail to the Victors
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961007105351.11714A-100000-+AT+-qix.rs.itd.umich.edu>


Nina the purple cat wrote: 
> Unrelated comment for the day: Go Cats! I was lucky enough to see the
> Northwestern Wildcats defeat the Michigan Wolverines for the second straight
> year!  Apologies to those of you who don't like or don't care about sports,
> but this is BIG!  What can I say...cut me, and I bleed purple.
> 
Well, we LET you guys win that one...out of the kindness of our hearts.... 
yea, that is is...we were feeling sorry for ya'll :)
that or they just got really lazy there in the second half!!  Ann Arbor
is a very somber city this morning!

Obmisty:  who edits the CatFantastics??  The anthologies that her Skitty
stories are in??

Sandy, the I-work-here-of-course-I-am-a-Wolverine!! 
					^^^^^^^^^^



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 11:02:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Shaman/Seafire/Renshai/HA/Swordspoint/Psychometry
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.961007104441.29450D-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

> From: Jenna Wilson ~Stormcloud~ <jenna-+AT+-SIMCL.STJOHNS.EDU>

> Among the Shin'a'in, the shamans are only ones allowed to use magic, 
> and it is implied to be a different kind of magic from what mages 
> use.  I would think the reason the Tayledras don't have shamans is 
> that is a culture formed around magic.  Maybe they are _all_ shamans 
> in a way.  Or perhaps it is a very private religion, like some 
> Wiccans I have known who worship alone.  Or perhaps it is because 
> when the Kaled'a'in split into the Shin'a'in and the Tayledras, the 
> Shin'a'in got all the shamans and the Tayledras all the pure mages.

I'll give you the possibility of most of it, but not the last.  <g>
In the memory-tapestry scene in WoFate, Ravenwing says something 
about how she communicated with all the shaman, even those
with the Sundered Brothers. (or something like that)

> Heathen # 81 got her heathen stuff and her Life's Flame CD and is a 
> very happy camper!  I _love_ Creature of the Wood.... for some 
> strange reason that song strikes a chord someplace in me.  *happy 
> sigh*  And her intro to Black Jack's Lady is hysterical.  I told that 
> to one of his friends and now among his list of "commandments" is 
> don't piss off Jenna the redhead! *grin*

Grumble, grumble.  I still haven't gotten anything.  I'm mailing Seafire
to see what's up.  It's been over a month since I sent my order!

> *********************************************************
> Mickey Zucker Reichart, who I believe is female, wrote the wonderful 
> Legend of Nightfall and the Renshai trilogy.  All of which I took out 
> from the library, devoured, and then ran out to a bookstore to get my 
> own copies of! :)  Actually, you gotta love library booksales: I got 
> the whole Renshai trilogy for less than a dollar!  IIRC, there is a 
> fourth book out now, Beyond Ragnarok.

You know, I just can't seem to get through her books now?  I have the
whole Renshai trilogy. I originally bought the first two together, read
them, and liked them.  So when book 3 came out, I bought it.  But,
every time I try to reread parts 1&2, I get distracted or bored.  So
I've had 3 for a few years now, and I've never read it.

> Mat wrote:
> > Oh Heather, I'm not quite done with it yet, but I must add myself to
> > the ranks of those who say "Swordspoint is Cool." <g>  Now I just
> > need to see what happens with Richard in prison, and WHO THE HECK
> > ALEC IS!!!!!!  Well, I do have an idea, but I'm not sure. Oh, for
> > the time to just sit down and read.  Sigh.  
> 
> Heh heh heh... looks like we hooked another one on this book!  
> Heather, I must say I have enjoyed reading the books you have 
> recommended!  Swordspoint and Ecstacia have become treasured 
> residents upon my overflowing bookshelves!  :)  Hey, Mat, keep 
> reading, MAKE TIME to read it, I can guarentee you will _love_ the 
> way things fall out! *grin*

<bg>  I finished it the night I wrote that post.  I have read it, and 
it is Good.  <g>  Add another to the legion of Swordspoint fans!
Oh, and now I understand the "Dating Alec is good for your sanity
and health" comment, Heather. <g>

==============================================================================
> From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>

> I don't know - kinda seems like Talia can do that. <specifically thinking of
> when Ylsa dies> she could, herm, maybe not. <ponders> Who was it that
> said she could track emotions and if they were strong enough she'd See 
> it - it was Talia right? Wouldn't a murderer's weapon contain enough of an emotional 'stain' that she'd be able to read it and possibly See it? So, wonder
> what would happen if she ever picked up a bandit's blade <thinking of the
> bandits Tarma hunted down in "Sword-Sworn"> ::sudden grin:: makes me
> think of Keepers training on darkover - wonder if they are also taught not to
> touch strange, unknown items?

Nah, that's just extended clarivoyance.  She can See current stuff, not
the past.  The only reason she could find Ylsa's death spot was because
she was "connected" to Ylsa when she died.  Finding the spot was 
just memory.  The only bit of psychometry I can think of is in MPrice.
Remember the spell Van and Savil cast at Forst Reach?  The one the lets
them see the attack on Stef and Treesa.  The leech-blade attack.

Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,   |"I looked across the battlefield, blood
Adept, and God of Procrastination| seeping from my wounds. My comrades, 
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu       | they did never yield. For courage 
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| knows no bounds." - Heather Alexander      
	          



------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 864
*********************************