MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 867

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Archives
	by Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
  2) Re: Goodkind/fantasy/Kushner/Ramona/SB spoilerettey
	by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu
  3) stef-lyndel
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
  4) offtopiciosity
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
  5) Re: stef-lyndel
	by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu
  6) Thanks:Nomination&HB-day/Darkover/archives
	by Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
  7) Re: stef-lyndel
	by Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
  8) Re: MZB's Shattered Chain
	by Carolyn Taylor <ctaylor-+AT+-bmi.net>
  9) Re: (Andesha's History)
	by Chelsea <Chelsea.Fischer-+AT+-Colorado.EDU>
 10) ethics of heralds: are they contagious?
	by Sean <herewiss-+AT+-leland.stanford.edu>
 11) Interesting thoughts, Spoilers?
	by "AMY E. BAUER" <baueramy-+AT+-zebu.cvm.msu.edu>
 12) MZB Shattered chain
	by Lisa Prior <lprior-+AT+-geocities.com>
 13) RE: Response to Adrienne (Re: MZB)
	by RIB - Richard Bertelsen <rib-+AT+-scanjour.dk>
 14) Re: SB spoilerette
	by "Keith M. Barber" <keithb-+AT+-iea.com>
 15) Re: SB spoiler
	by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
 16) Re: stef-lyndel
	by Wintershard <peallen-+AT+-naz.edu>
 17) Oversights, and fluff
	by "AMY E. BAUER" <baueramy-+AT+-zebu.cvm.msu.edu>
 18) Farsight/Foresight/Rethwellan Succession/Rune/etc
	by Lynne Markova <lynne-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>
 19) BOUNCE BOUNCE BOUNCE!!!!
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
 20) Kid's opinion
	by GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu
 21) degrees/Happy Birthday!/Stef-'Lendel
	by Soljan-+AT+-aol.com
 22) Larry/casting/b-day thanks/oops, a faux pas
	by Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
 23) Reply to: Interesting thoughts on Larry's art
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
 24) Rune
	by Lynne Markova <lynne-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:12:56 +0100 (BST)
From: Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Archives
Message-ID: <199610091212.NAA26883-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>


Firemist -- and she's not the first -- asked, with regard to the size of the
archives,

> Auntie Mel, could you please do something about that?? pretty please? even
> splitting it on year basis would help. . .

I know it's a problem, but unfortunately I've not got the time to sort it out
at the moment. I can't move the actual archive files (or Listproc would get
very confused indeed, bless its little electronic heart), so better access would
be by generating better indices than the standard Web directory listing.

This in itself is not an especially difficult problem -- the main snag is in
updating them when a new digest is archived (or shortly thereafter). It can
be done, but it would take a few hours of fiddling about that I don't currently
have; anyone who wants to write me a Perl script to do the job, please do feel
free... (you should probably e-mail me off-list first for some more 
information). 

One o' these days there'll be search facilities, too. (I don't need a script
for that; all the stuff is here, awaiting configuration.)

ObNearlyMisty: Heather, _do_ read more MZBs. The Trillium books aren't typical
at all, from what little I've seen of them.

Cheers

Mel.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 08:02:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Goodkind/fantasy/Kushner/Ramona/SB spoilerettey
Message-ID: <199610091302.AA172736176-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu>

 
> *****************************
> 
> For all of you Swordspoint fans out there, there is a short story 
> featuring Richard and Alec called "The Swordsman Whose Name Was Not 
> Death" in TYBF&H 5. Aieee, but Ellen Kushner can write!

You're telling me!  I just got Swordspoint from the library and read the
first few chapters.  All I can say is "wow."


Somewhat of an ObMisty:  I just requested S&S III.  You've got to love
inter-library loans.  If only they could get it to me in less than a
month...

Nina 
 



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 09:56:03 -0400
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: stef-lyndel
Message-ID: <199610090957_MC1-A94-E309-+AT+-compuserve.com>


I don't know about that argument - the morals and ethics are a product
of where we grow up, etc. I understand the theory behind it (Maslow's
hierarchy, as well as common sense) but I wonder if Misty gets it ->
after all there was the poor boy Naeve (the one from OutKingdom that
helped test Talia for Empathy by projecting horrible memories) who was
chosen despite growing up in adverse circumstances, not to mention Skif,
whom the other list members which have Heather tapes say was chosen
when he tried to *steal* a companion. He too grew up in the slums of a major
city and was an orphan, yet still managed to be chosen. Talia's life was also
filled with adverse circumstance - it's been my experience that people beaten
down and repressed like Talia was tend to turn mean - like a dog that's only
ever been kicked and tries to bite a friendly person out of suspicion.

If vanyel's being around Heralds was enough to help 'change' him so he
could become chosen, do you think (ponders - how to phrase this) that other
people exposed (gods, sounds like it's a disease! <g>) to Heralds would also
change their ethics/morals and become Chosen-candidate material? I wonder
if their was ever a Monarch who had children that didn't become Chosen - that
would disprove the theory, wouldn't it? Alhough Elspeth's exposure to Talia and
other Heralds seems to have changed *her*. Hmm...

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:06:55 -0400
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: offtopiciosity
Message-ID: <199610091008_MC1-A9D-24A4-+AT+-compuserve.com>


HTH brought up a point about how do we establish guidelines about what
is offtopicosity, and how much is allowable.

Well, In the past, Mel has usually put her foot down when she thinks we've
gotten out of hand. Personally, as long as the subject heading is labelled, I
tend to skip a post that has content that doesn't interest me - sometimes I
miss out some good stuff that way. (only do this when pressed for time and
have to deal with 200 e-mails a day <g> hasn't happened since May)
I know those on the digest can't do that, but at least they can scroll past
the post if they read the subject heading

you can always label the un-misty posts as 'un-misty' or something. . .

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 09:16:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: stef-lyndel
Message-ID: <199610091416.AA270090562-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu>

 
> If vanyel's being around Heralds was enough to help 'change' him so he
> could become chosen, do you think (ponders - how to phrase this) that other
> people exposed (gods, sounds like it's a disease! <g>) to Heralds would also
> change their ethics/morals and become Chosen-candidate material? I wonder
> if their was ever a Monarch who had children that didn't become Chosen - that
> would disprove the theory, wouldn't it? Alhough Elspeth's exposure to Talia and
> other Heralds seems to have changed *her*. Hmm...
> 
It is somewhat possible, at least in real life.  You've just given an
example of Bandura's modeling/social learning theory.  It modeling can work
for behaviors, I don't see why it't couldn't theoretically work for
ehtics/morals.  IMHO, a demonstration of ethics/morals is just another set
of behaviors--they are all learned (we don't enter this world inherently
knowing right from wrong or good from bad).

But, I do think that there has to be decent foundation present.  Skif was a
thief (probably out of necessity), but he may have been chosen despite this
because he was not malicious.  Not to debate nature v. nurture or anything,
but there's a similar case with Talia.  She somehow remained a "good" person
despite the conditions on the holding (hmm...this disproves my earlier
modeling argument, now doesn't it). There must be something about their
personalities or strength of character which allows them to be true to
themselves/natures.


I hope this makes sense.

Nina

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:16:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Thanks:Nomination&HB-day/Darkover/archives
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.961009095835.404A-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

> From: LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com

> Ahem. To the Ladies of the Pink Wand: The Lilac Fairy hereby formally
> nominates The Cat in Green as a candidate for elevation to the Pantheon of
> Objects of Unrequited Love/Lust. Does any Lady second his nomination? 
> 
> And she thinks that, even though he's not officially an OoUL/L yet, Mat
> should be invited to the celebration at The Bower this weekend so all the
> Ladies can check him out before the final vote! <weg> The Lilac Fairy will be
> ready to receive guests at midnight Friday IFT (Imaginary Fairy Time), and
> the party will go on until midnight Sunday. She has also invited lots of
> *friendly* (nudge nudge wink wink) bisexual fairy ladies, gentlemen and
> sheep. (And because someone is bound to ask, yes, the sheep are also
> bisexual!)

[bows low]  Thank you, Milady Fairy.  I am most honored to be nominated.
And I'd love to join the most beauteous Ladies at the Bower.  :)

========================================================================
> From: Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda <Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au>
> 
> HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAT - 2 Decades - well done - (Wish, I could remember mine
> grumble- envy)

<g>  Thanks.

==========================================================================
> From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
> 
> Welcome, luv, to the Mistylist.  Of course you can be a renunciate.  As
> it happens, it's practically On Topic, since MZB has asked Misty to take
> over the Darkover series when she (Bradley) is no longer able to write.
> So someday (God willing, not soon), Renunciates will be fair game around
> here, right along with Heralds, Free Bards, Guardians, and the rest.

Are you sure about that?  I hear this often, but then I keep 
hearing that someone else is doing it.


==========================================================================
> From: Melanie Dymond Harper <mel-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>

> I know it's a problem, but unfortunately I've not got the time to sort it out
> at the moment. I can't move the actual archive files (or Listproc would get
> very confused indeed, bless its little electronic heart), so better access 
> would be by generating better indices than the standard Web directory
> listing.

You know, I've discovered that it's a lot faster if you use ftp instead
of a web browser.  Especially if you know the digest date and number
you're looking for.  

> One o' these days there'll be search facilities, too. (I don't need a script
> for that; all the stuff is here, awaiting configuration.)

Oooh that would be useful.

Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,   |"I looked across the battlefield, blood
Adept, and God of Procrastination| seeping from my wounds. My comrades, 
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu       | they did never yield. For courage 
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| knows no bounds." - Heather Alexander      
	          



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:20:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: stef-lyndel
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.961009101803.404B-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote:

> If vanyel's being around Heralds was enough to help 'change' him so he
> could become chosen, do you think (ponders - how to phrase this) that other
> people exposed (gods, sounds like it's a disease! <g>) to Heralds would also
> change their ethics/morals and become Chosen-candidate material? I wonder
> if their was ever a Monarch who had children that didn't become Chosen - that
> would disprove the theory, wouldn't it? Alhough Elspeth's exposure to Talia 
> and other Heralds seems to have changed *her*. Hmm...

Well, think of the story of the Founding in the Orientation class.  Teren
mentions that, by the time of Valdemar's death, his son's *second* son
had been Chosen, and became Heir.  That implies that the first son 
wasn't Chosen. (I can get texevd, but I'm too lazy to look for it at
the moment)

Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,   |"I looked across the battlefield, blood
Adept, and God of Procrastination| seeping from my wounds. My comrades, 
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu       | they did never yield. For courage 
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| knows no bounds." - Heather Alexander      
	          


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 96 07:23 PDT
From: Carolyn Taylor <ctaylor-+AT+-bmi.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: MZB's Shattered Chain
Message-ID: <m0vAzXN-0005CXC-+AT+-bmi.bmi.net>

Ah, here's a related question.  The Darkover trilogy about the
>Renunciates -- Shattered Chain, Thendara House, and City of Sorcery.
>Should I read them? 

Your reaction to this group of books may depend to a great extent on your
age and thus on your experiances of pre civil rights life. Some of  us women
whose early life was lived in the subordinate woman/woman belongs in the
home climate find them almost unbearably moving. Emotional reactions aside,
though, they are great stories.

Carolyn


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 09:16:31 -0600 (MDT)
From: Chelsea <Chelsea.Fischer-+AT+-Colorado.EDU>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: (Andesha's History)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.961009091318.10189A-100000-+AT+-ucsu.Colorado.EDU>

On Wed, 9 Oct 1996 ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au wrote:

> store and I had AoQ already). I enjoyed BG & WG and started on SW.  Am I
> missing something? It seems as though some of SW is dependent on previous
> books but I don't know which ones. - An'desha is recovering from possession
> of a great evil - is this story told in an earlier book?  I found the first

the story of andesha's possesion, etc. is from the Mage Winds series:
_Winds_of_Fate_, _Winds_of_Fury, _Winds_of_...um...something else... i
can't remember... me-+AT+-college-+AT+-colorado, books-+AT+-home-+AT+-texas... *sigh*

etitameh

disclaimer: the above probably makes no sense... deal with it.   :)
  
may love and light guide you on your way... & *never* play strip tarot.
chelsea.fischer-+AT+-colorado.edu     http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~ccfische/
caf0001-+AT+-jove.acs.unt.edu         http://www.unt.edu/~caf0001
"the limits of my language are the limits of my world." -- Wittgenstein



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 08:19:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sean <herewiss-+AT+-leland.stanford.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: ethics of heralds: are they contagious?
Message-ID: <199610091519.IAA11269-+AT+-popserver4.Stanford.EDU>

 
>It is somewhat possible, at least in real life.  You've just given an
>example of Bandura's modeling/social learning theory.  It modeling can work
>for behaviors, I don't see why it't couldn't theoretically work for
>ehtics/morals.  IMHO, a demonstration of ethics/morals is just another set
>of behaviors--they are all learned (we don't enter this world inherently
>knowing right from wrong or good from bad).
>
>But, I do think that there has to be decent foundation present.  Skif was a
>thief (probably out of necessity), but he may have been chosen despite this
>because he was not malicious.  Not to debate nature v. nurture or anything,
>but there's a similar case with Talia.  She somehow remained a "good" person
>despite the conditions on the holding (hmm...this disproves my earlier
>modeling argument, now doesn't it). There must be something about their
>personalities or strength of character which allows them to be true to
>themselves/natures.
>

But Talia did have some good influences on the holding.  One of her older
brothers stood up for her and generally sounds like a good person from her
description of him.  Things only got really bad when he died in a raid.
Also her older sister was a good person and used to help Talia covertly by
doing things like sneaking food into her when she was sent to bed with out
supper.  So there were some good examples for Talia to follow!

Sean (who once again wonders if this makes any sense!)

"To hand-crafted beers made in local breweries
 To yoga, to yogurt, to rice and beans and cheese
 To leather, to dildos, to curry vindaloo
 To huevos rancheros and Maya Angelou."
      --"La Vie Boheme" RENT



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:32:24 EST
From: "AMY E. BAUER" <baueramy-+AT+-zebu.cvm.msu.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Interesting thoughts, Spoilers?
Message-ID: <2C988E74805-+AT+-zebu.cvm.msu.edu>

Hello Listsibs,
     I've been an inaudible lurker lately, and this may actually be my 
last post for a while because classes are catching up to me and I 
haven't looked at yesterday's mail yet (although I moved it all to 
its folder).  Anyway my dear boyfriend Tony, who has never read a 
Misty book (I'm not going to force him, he's made it through one 
novel in the almost three years we've been together, and that took 
all summer),  and I were looking at the illustrations in SB (which I 
bought this weekend), and he had some ideas about Larry's art.  
     He thinks that it looks like the illustrations may have been 
done, scanned into a computer, and then edited there which may be why 
(IMHO, of course, I can draw an iguana skull if it's sitting in front 
of me and that's it) they sometimes look rough for a professional 
artist.  His alternative theory is that they may actually be 
paintings and it's a bit disconcerting to see paintings of that 
nature in black and white.  
    We also discussed Vanyel casting and I think that maybe he will 
actually pick up MPawn someday.  We'll see.  I'm bad at casting, so I 
can't come up with a Vanyal idea.  Having been given a quick 
character sketch he thought maybe Tom Cruise or (and I don't agree 
here) Jonathan Silverman.  Anyhow, it was a fun conversation.  I 
don't often get to discuss Misty-related stuff with a living, 
breathing person next to me.   No ofense to you, gentle listsibs.
    This may be a spoiler for SB, so here's my warning:




















Um, although there have been inconsistancies in Misty's work lately 
(I haven't actually finished SB yet).  I have noticed that she does a 
good job of reminding us exactly WHY the E(I)mpire is mistrustful of 
Valdemar.  Elspeth's throwing knives seem to make pretty consistant 
appearances, no textev, though as my books are in IL.  Anyhow, I 
thought that I would defend her on this account at least.

Wind to Thy Wings, all.  I'm off to take a pathology exam.

amy
(hoping to be named Goddess of Sycamore Trees and Subtle Escapes)
Despeately dodging phlying pharmaceuticals ... 
Amy E. Bauer
baueramy-+AT+-zebu.cvm.msu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 12:38:10 PDT
From: Lisa Prior <lprior-+AT+-geocities.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: MZB Shattered chain
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.007072696f7220204144313530303030-+AT+-MAPI.to.RFC822>

Yes you should read.  I have read most of MZB's work.  Some people 
love em and some hate them.  These three books are a bit feminist for 
some readers be they do have gay characters.  The stories deal with 
culture shock and lots of other stuff.  And remember MZB helped start 
Misty!

Bye

Lisa P
(Goddess of Klutz)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 17:49:52 +0100
From: RIB - Richard Bertelsen <rib-+AT+-scanjour.dk>
To: "'M.L. Post'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Response to Adrienne (Re: MZB)
Message-ID: <c=DK%a=_%p=scanjour%l=VIMS-961009164952Z-158-+AT+-vims.scanjour.dk>

Hi

MZB is a very good wirter (IMHO). I have read just about all of her
Darkover books and some of the others and liked them so much, that I
have read most  of them several times.

I would think that anyone who likes Misty's books would like MZB. Like
most writers, the quality differs from book to book, but generally they
are good.

Richard


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:18:57 -0700
From: "Keith M. Barber" <keithb-+AT+-iea.com>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: SB spoilerette
Message-ID: <199610091720.RAA16987-+AT+-comtch.iea.com>



----------
> From: gar&julie mclaughlin <jmacjm19-+AT+-vcomm.net>
> >SB Spoilerette:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Snip> >
> Has the magic of Velgarth now returned to the state it was in before the
> first cataclysm do you think? Your right about Falconsbanes comment about
> the world not having as much magic as when he was Ma'ar. If thats the
case,
> maybe what they will need to do is re-learn all the old magic. Maybe all
> that power that ma'ar remembered was caught up in the Final Storm, and
now
> that it "came back", it can be used like it used to be? (Did that even
> sound right?) I seem to remember a passage somewhere about the goddess
> having to teach the taylendras about nodes and ley lines. Maybe they came
> into existance after the first cataclysm?

In BG Urtho mentions that each permanent gate has it's own node for power
so I don't think that nodes were new, by extension therefore I don't think
that leys were either. I suspect that the theory of power returning from
the void via life  is accurate and when combined with the point mentioned
that the release of blood energy after a war is used by the land to
increase fertility, I wonder if that is why the massive bloom on Velgarth
after SB. If this is the case, then there should also be a general increase
in fertility including human fertility.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:08:21 -0700
From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: SB spoiler
Message-ID: <199610092008.NAA16624-+AT+-latimes.com>

At 06:51 PM 10/9/96 +0100, Keith M. Barber wrote:
>
>
>----------
>> From: gar&julie mclaughlin <jmacjm19-+AT+-vcomm.net>
>> >SB Spoilerette:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>Snip> >
>> Has the magic of Velgarth now returned to the state it was in before the
>> first cataclysm do you think? 

<snip>
>
>In BG Urtho mentions that each permanent gate has it's own node for power
>so I don't think that nodes were new, by extension therefore I don't think
>that leys were either. I suspect that the theory of power returning from
>the void via life  is accurate and when combined with the point mentioned
>that the release of blood energy after a war is used by the land to
>increase fertility, I wonder if that is why the massive bloom on Velgarth
>after SB. 

Also, we have an entire crop of new Heralds who have Mage-Gift and who are
being trained to use Mage-Gift.  We have been told that the gifts appear
when they are needed.  So if no one is going to need Mage-Gift, why have so
many Heralds suddenly running around with it?

Danya


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:37:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wintershard <peallen-+AT+-naz.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: stef-lyndel
Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.95.961009135228.16151D-100000-+AT+-orion.naz.edu>

Rozanna McNeer wrote:

> if their was ever a Monarch who had children that didn't become Chosen - that
> would disprove the theory, wouldn't it? Alhough Elspeth's exposure to Talia and
> other Heralds seems to have changed *her*. Hmm...
> 
> Firemist

Elspeth's Companion was Grove-Born. IMO, sort of a custom-made Companion.
I guess the question is, should Elspeth have been Chosen if Rolan didn't
bring Gwen to do so?


//////////////////  HAPPY  BIRTHDAY MAT  \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

I present you with some homemade chocolate mousse, and a brand new pair of
sheep <g>. Enjoy!

Wintershard
God of Subtlety, Discreetness, and Crappy Weather




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 17:05:39 EST
From: "AMY E. BAUER" <baueramy-+AT+-zebu.cvm.msu.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Oversights, and fluff
Message-ID: <2CF165F2344-+AT+-zebu.cvm.msu.edu>

Silly, rude me.  
   I forgot to give a belated congratulations to the lovely Lilac 
Fairy and best wishes to Mat on his birthday!  In regard to that, I 
will be 22 on the 4th of November (just to add to the poll).
   I think that the advanced degree anonymity rule sounds good, and I 
promise to adhere by avoiding b**ching about school as much as I can.

ObMisty:  I LIKE SB so far.  Granted I'm only on chapter 5, but I 
don't have too many complaints just yet.

Back into the void,
amy
(hoping to be Goddess of Sycamore Trees and Subtle Escapes)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:26:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lynne Markova <lynne-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Farsight/Foresight/Rethwellan Succession/Rune/etc
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.94.961009134626.11492A-100000-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>


Lady Sophia sings "Happy Birthday" to the person who just attained his or
her second decade!

RE:  Farsight/Foresight

Farsight is what is identified as clairvoyance - the ability to "see"
things that are many miles away.  Foresight is precognition - knowing what
is going to happen before it actually happens.  I do think Misty tends to
mix the two a little bit - Maeven Weatherwitch, for instance - does she
"see" the weather systems drifting in, or does she "know" they will happen
before they show up? <weg>

> 
> >>>BTW, if something happened to Faramentha and his children Elspeth be the
> next in line? I know she renounced the position of heir but that was in
> Valdemar and we have no evidence that would put her out of the sucession in
> Rethwellan. as I remember her father was older than Daren thus making her
> senior in the sucession.<<<
> 
> I think that since she was born in Valdemar, she only had claim to the
> throne of Valdemar. Since Daren is the prince-consort of Valdemar, and
> Selenay is the Queen of Valdemar, I don't think any of their children would
> have a claim on Rethwellan, either. And besides, I think all claim that the
> evil brother had on the Rethwellan throne was renounced by his
> assassination attempt of Selenay, and that was passed on down to Elspeth.

I would think that was unlikely - after all, his treachery was in
*Valdemar* not in Rethwellan.  Also, I doubt that treason is inheritable -
if it was, Elspeth should have been barred from the throne of Valdemar,
not from the throne of Rethwellan.

IIRC, on the other had, I believe Faramethea just had tons and tons of
*sons* - didn't Elspeth, in AFall, speculate briefly about marrying one of
them?  I seem to recall her mentioning sons, and say something wistful
about "someone with his sense of humor would be nice to know...."


> Aha... and check this one out- small, curly B hair, big B eyes,
> heart-shaped face, not beautiful but pretty, ran away at 13 from
> oppressive family life to follow a dream....No, not Talia, this is Rune
> from L&W.  I kept noticing that part too.
> 
> The Lilac Fairy just has to tell Lady Sophia about this- the other day, she
> was cataloging a scrapbook of autographs that someone had collected between
> 1897-1904 from various famous people- including Dame Nellie Melba! 

Lady Sophia is very impressed!!!  She wishes she could sprout fairy wings
and fly down to visit the Lilac Fairy, and see her incredible signature.
Perhaps the Lilac Fairy will bring a copy to the next meeting of the
Ladies of the Pink Wand?

> 
> Ah, here's a related question.  The Darkover trilogy about the
> Renunciates -- Shattered Chain, Thendara House, and City of Sorcery.
> Should I read them?  I loved Mists of Avalon, but I loathed the Trillium
> books, and I was relatively happy with Firebrand, so all in all I don't
> know where I stand on MZB (except that I wish she'd accept one of my
> short stories for once).

I was quite bored during City of Sorcery, I am sorry to say.


Mini-spoiler













Did we ever find out what happened to Magda?  Did she make a cameo in The
Bloody Son, after Cleindori and what's-his-name were killed?

The Goddess of Music and Song will now return to work (and to nurse her
aching back.  The Goddess did not know she could change her own car
battery!!  She is feeling very smug, but also very cranky).

Lady Sophia, Goddess of Music and Song (ouch!)
 


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 18:35:42 -0400
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: BOUNCE BOUNCE BOUNCE!!!!
Message-ID: <199610091835_MC1-A8F-538C-+AT+-compuserve.com>


one of the resident MZB fans raises her head at HTH's query

should you read them? good gods yes!!! I read them when I was 8!!! by all
means, go and enjoy the writings of she who got me started reading this stuff.
BTW, if you can swing it, pick up a copy of the anthology Free Amazons of 
Darkover, which has a short-story by Misty in it! I loved City of Sorcery!! IMHO
one of the best books written (up there with LHM, Mists, and GGK-stuff)!!! 
dance around - more people to share MZB with de-dum-la-de-la-lay. Thendara
house is also wonderful - the shattered chain must not have been that won-
derful since I haven't re-read it in 5 years. . . hmm. .. time for a re-read then!

ATTENTION MZB FANS:
there's a new MZB Darkover book out in hardcover that takes place after the
Sharra incident. I haven't bought it yet (mournful look at empty wallet), but
will get it soon!

::er, blush:: sorry didn't mean to get so carried away ::<-- meekly::

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 17:39:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu
To: MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK
Subject: Kid's opinion
Message-ID: <961009173901.22a95343-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu>

>>As for all fantasy being juvenile stories, I for one wouldn't want my 9
>>year old to read everything out there thats labeled "Fantasy".

*curiousity* Does your nine year old have an opinion on that stand?

Kimberlee asked the above.  In answer I write:
Tamber liked KoGaS, The first Talia book (Ican't recall the title
at the moment), Elven Dude (which is by Mark Shepard but set in
Misty's world), she said she couldn't get into CotN (language too
adult).  She hasn't tried Bard's Tale stuff yet.  She says she just
doesn't understand alot of the other stuff yet.
So, that's a 9year old's opinion (precocious, but 9)
I agree with all the recently stated opinions that "Thou shalt not
flaunt lest thou be flamed" (stern Moses look on face)
I also agree that the list is fine as pertaining to fluff, as long
as it is limited, there are lots of knowledgable and opinionated
peoples out there, and this is my best link to the world outside
of my home. (well, one of anyway)
I have a hard time reading MZB, too dark and dreary, but Time
loves all of her books.
I think that's about all.
Oh, Lady Thess, can I be Goddess of Advice, Equines, Things Unbelieva
Unbelieved In?

Dax the Eternal, Lady of the Unicorns 

|"Science and medicine, these are noble 
|pursuits and necessary to sustain life,
|But art, music, beauty and love, thse are
|the things for which we stay alive." -DPS

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 18:43:40 -0400
From: Soljan-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: degrees/Happy Birthday!/Stef-'Lendel
Message-ID: <961009184338_206336437-+AT+-emout20.mail.aol.com>

Heather writes:

<< You know, I'm sorry that people aren't finding the list "fun." But I'm
 not sure I'd find it fun if we never discussed anything but Mercedes
 Lackey books.  I don't know how to find and/or enforce some kind of
 balance.  Is two days of conversation about religion really out of line?
 What about news and reviews of other fantasy works and authors?  >>
  I was surprised to find that some people don't find our list very fun.  It
is a great place,  and some people were unfortunate to come in during one of
our few "bad" times.  I agree with Heather.  If all we talked about was
Misty,  it would be pretty dry and bland around here.  To follow with
that...the fluff is like icing on the cake.  It gives the list flavor.
 However,  too much can make you sick.  <g>  I think that a short
conversation on religion/other authors is fine,  as long as we don't get into
a flame war or a month long discussion.

Then she says:
>>I guess my question would be,should we attempt to handle 
this and provide some kind of paramaters
within which conversations on the list should operate, or should we just
say, the list is what the list is, and it will appeal to some people and
not to others?    Ideas?<<
  Maybe a combination of both?  Set a few limits,  and leave the rest
free-flowing?  Such as having some Misty in every post,  hence the obMisty,
 and none,  or very few all-fluff posts?  Also,  if the topic is
controversial,  either stop talking about it or go to private mail.
 Ummm...if it's something we've talked about before,  such as "Are Companions
re-incarnated Heralds,  Talia's ring...etc,  either ignore it,  or state on
the list that it has been a popular topic,  and anyone with argument can take
it to private mode. These are just suggestions..what do ya all think?
****************************************************
Happy Birthday Mat!  
****************************************************
Firemist writes:
>>after all there was the poor boy Naeve (the one from OutKingdom that
helped test Talia for Empathy by projecting horrible memories) who was
chosen despite growing up in adverse circumstances, not to mention Skif,
whom the other list members which have Heather tapes say was chosen
when he tried to *steal* a companion. He too grew up in the slums of a major
city and was an orphan, yet still managed to be chosen.<<
  I think all those people were really good at heart,  no matter the
circumstances.  Then there are others who need a little nudge to become
Herald material.  Van had to shape up and get out of his man-of-ice ways to
become Chosen.  'Fandes may have helped him a little more after that also.
 'Lendel was good at heart.  He changed after his brother's death.  (No I do
not want to get on the topic of 'Lendel's sanity,  so drop it! TINAF)
  Neave had a terrible childhood,  but he didn't try to get back at those who
caused it.  He just took it as it was.  Talia never tried to attack her
family no matter what happened,  neither did Skif.  Skif was a theif,  but he
was a light-hearted friend deep-down.  'Lendel was too for a long time.  Stef
was different.  He had grown up on the streets,  and though he seemed nice
enough,  to me he never seemed to be Herald "material."

That was pretty long for my first post in a while.  I'm still here folks,
 there wasn't  much to reply to before.  =)

Lady Silvermoon
LIG,  Leader of the DDMF,  Goddess of Sensitivity
"Don't speak,  I know what you're saying,  so please stop explaining,  don't
tell me 'cause it hurts."  _Don't Speak_ No Doubt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 18:45:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Larry/casting/b-day thanks/oops, a faux pas
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.961009183745.13440C-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

> From: "AMY E. BAUER" <baueramy-+AT+-zebu.cvm.msu.edu>

>      He thinks that it looks like the illustrations may have been 
> done, scanned into a computer, and then edited there which may be why 
> (IMHO, of course, I can draw an iguana skull if it's sitting in front 
> of me and that's it) they sometimes look rough for a professional 
> artist.  His alternative theory is that they may actually be 
> paintings and it's a bit disconcerting to see paintings of that 
> nature in black and white.  

Actually, IIRC, Larry *does* draw them, then scan them in and do
something to them.  I know I read that somewhere.  And they're originally
black and white, since Larry is colorblind. (Hey maybe that explains
his horrid covers! -- nah, 'cause his inside art isn't much better)


>     We also discussed Vanyel casting and I think that maybe he will 
> actually pick up MPawn someday.  We'll see.  I'm bad at casting, so I 
> can't come up with a Vanyal idea.  Having been given a quick 
> character sketch he thought maybe Tom Cruise or (and I don't agree 
> here) Jonathan Silverman.  Anyhow, it was a fun conversation.  

Ick, Ick, Ick.  Tom Cruise is bad enough, but JONATHAN SILVERMAN!!!!!
*shudder*  Well, it's better than Danny Devito (obReference to Top 10
List).

=========================================================================
> From: Wintershard <peallen-+AT+-naz.edu>

> //////////////////  HAPPY  BIRTHDAY MAT  \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> 
> I present you with some homemade chocolate mousse, and a brand new pair of
> sheep <g>. Enjoy!

<g>  Thanks Wintershard!

============================================================================
> From: "AMY E. BAUER" <baueramy-+AT+-zebu.cvm.msu.edu>

> Silly, rude me.  
>    I forgot to give a belated congratulations to the lovely Lilac 
> Fairy and best wishes to Mat on his birthday!  In regard to that, I 
> will be 22 on the 4th of November (just to add to the poll).

Thank you Amy.  

Havens!  I meant to say this awhile ago, but Congratulations Milady Fairy!
Can you ever forgive me?

Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,   |"I looked across the battlefield, blood
Adept, and God of Procrastination| seeping from my wounds. My comrades, 
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu       | they did never yield. For courage 
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| knows no bounds." - Heather Alexander      
	          


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 18:49:50 -0400
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: Reply to: Interesting thoughts on Larry's art
Message-ID: <199610091850_MC1-A8B-236F-+AT+-compuserve.com>


I read in one of the books that the interior art was originally done in pen&ink,
scanned into a computer, and then modified (like the straight lines cutting
through some of them). I think he and Victor Wren did it together and for
the life of me I can't remember where I read this. . . It's in one of the Author's
notes - there's a picture of a cute gryphlet shredding someones fav cloak
over the AUTHOR'S NOTE bit - maybe this will help somebody find it. . .
argh! I hate it when this happens

:looks around frantically for a place to hide from Cennydd and the (in)famous
9' bull whip; cringing at the thought of "CITE TEXTEVD!" being bellowed at
 her once again:

<g>

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:04:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lynne Markova <lynne-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Rune
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.94.961009160159.14622A-100000-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>


Lady Sophia is embarrassed that she forgot to make her point about Rune -
she was attractive, brown haired, heart-shaped face, et al, but
wasn't she rather *tall*?  IIRC, at the very end, the book mentioned
something about her having to be a pot-scrubber in the kitchen in Birnam,
since that was the only woman close to her in height.  

Lady Sophia, Goddess of Music and Song (ouch!)


------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 867
*********************************