MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 868

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Response to Adrienne
	by ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au
  2) Braid;/Renunciates/texevd/
	by "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" <Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au>
  3) Di Tregarde books
	by KayCeeFour-+AT+-aol.com
  4) Becoming a Herald
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
  5) Yet another Newbie
	by <ironhart-+AT+-nbn.com>
  6) LONGPOST/newbie/Yw.bk.rd./time?/spirits/confession/casting/littlemm
	by dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
  7) RE: Collaborating
	by RIB - Richard Bertelsen <rib-+AT+-scanjour.dk>
  8) RE: MZB book order
	by RIB - Richard Bertelsen <rib-+AT+-scanjour.dk>
  9) Re: Offtopicosity
	by Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
 10) Re: Becoming a Herald
	by Chris & Sean Talbot <brujah-+AT+-idirect.com>
 11) a quick question
	by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu
 12) Re: Offtopicosity
	by Ken Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
 13) Heathens
	by "Vrondi" <deanca-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu>
 14) Tadrith
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
 15) Regarding the many bounces, and MZB
	by Morgana <morgana-+AT+-armory.com>
 16) Re: a quick question
	by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
 17) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 866
	by davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker)
 18) Delurking
	by Cecelia Marsh <k95cm02-+AT+-kzoo.edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 23:42:31 GMT
From: ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Response to Adrienne
Message-ID: <199610092342.XAA25986-+AT+-enterprise.powerup.com.au>

At 10:32 9/10/96 +0100, you wrote:
>Welcome, luv, to the Mistylist.  Of course you can be a renunciate.  As
>it happens, it's practically On Topic, since MZB has asked Misty to take
>over the Darkover series when she (Bradley) is no longer able to write.
>So someday (God willing, not soon), Renunciates will be fair game around
>here, right along with Heralds, Free Bards, Guardians, and the rest.
>

Well, that's a relief!

>Yes, I don't wonder you had trouble making sense out of the Storm
>trilogy.  You skipped its immediate predecessor, the Winds trilogy
>(Winds of Fate, Winds of Change, Winds of Fury -- even in that order...I
>think).  This will not only wrap up the Ancar nonsense (notice he's
>still hanging about after Arrows?), but let you in on several little
>secrets of Velgarth, and introduce characters like Darkwind, Firesong,
>and An'desha, whom you will Need to Know if you hope to read Storms
>effectively.

Thanks for explaining that. I was starting to worry that I wouldn't enjoy
this trilogy, especially after the comments I've been reading. Now if only I
can find the Winds books! At least I know what I'm looking for.  Is anyone
else on this list from Australia? If so, where do you manage to find Misty
books (older ones, that is)?

>   And speaking of Need...three other books that are relevant and will
>probably help you out are Oathbound, Oathbreakers, and By the Sword.
>The last of those is the one directly related to the Matter of Valdemar,
>but the other two are loosely connected, and quite a lot of fun.
>   Get to it!  I hope you didn't think Misty was a *cheap* hobby <g>

Cheap? No hobby is cheap - if you do it properly <g>. At least with books,
they can be read over and over and over and ... well, you get the idea.
Thanks for the tip on these books. I'll keep an eye out for them. I'm afraid
I'm a bit of a collector-holic - especially of my favourite authors.

>
>Fancy that, you're right, there AREN'T a lot of female shaych characters
>are there?  Who would have noticed?
>   Don't mind Heather, she's just bitter.  Actually, we know they exist,
>because we've heard of them.  Sherrill and Keren and Ylsa were all
>shaych.  One of Vanyel's children ended up being raised by a female
>couple in his sister's merc company (MPromise).  Tarma and Kethry in
>Oathbound pose as lovers while undercover (no, not under *the*
>covers...that would be different).  Talia mentions that Holderkin
>underwives get romantically involved on a relatively regular basis.
>(No, I don't pay much attention to these references -- why would you
>ask?)
>
>Ah, here's a related question.  The Darkover trilogy about the
>Renunciates -- Shattered Chain, Thendara House, and City of Sorcery.
>Should I read them?  I loved Mists of Avalon, but I loathed the Trillium
>books, and I was relatively happy with Firebrand, so all in all I don't
>know where I stand on MZB (except that I wish she'd accept one of my
>short stories for once).  A Darkover fan told me she thought those were
>among the dullest of the Darkover books, so I'm leery -- though I read
>an anthology called Free Amazons of Somethingorother, and I liked it.  I
>don't know, what do y'all think about them?  Are they worth the effort?
>
>

I would say defintely yes. Thendarra House is the best of the three, IMOSHO,
:) and it *can* be read independently but the first sets the scene and once
you've read two, you'll want to see what happens next - and I wish there
were more of them! These are among my favourites of the Darkover Books.
(Shoot me if you must!) You could also try *Lythande*  by MZB. Not Darkover
but good nevertheless.

>HTH
>r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu
>"The madness of demons is rage -- the madness of angels, hope."
>    --A.A. Attanasio, *The Dragon & the Unicorn*
>

Back to Misty - my daughter (aged 12) loved AoQ and has just finished MPawn
which she also loved. No doubt she will have MPromise finished by tomorrow
night! She'd be in on this discussion with gusto if only she didn't have to
go bed before I settle to this!

Off topic again:
Why are so many writers today collaborating? It seems all my favourites are
joining forces with someone(s)- Anne McCaffrey, Misty, MZB, Julian May. Why
is this? Anyone got any info - or theories?

AJ, Bard & Renunciate (I'll think of more as I go along).
(Adrianne)
ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:25:46 +0930
From: "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" <Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid;/Renunciates/texevd/
Message-ID: <9610092355.AA58480-+AT+-bilbo.cc.flinders.edu.au>

Hth wrote
>Ah, here's a related question.  The Darkover trilogy about the
>Renunciates -- Shattered Chain, Thendara House, and City of Sorcery.
>Should I read them?    

YES YES YES I think they are great - they had an effect on my life so much
so that I changed my name - legally - as part of the Renunciate's vow. I
love it, my family have grown to accept it and my students loathe
it.Shattered Chain, Thendara House and City of Sorcery - dull - not in my
opinion - they certainly explore different issues.
I guess that many people would have described Baghdad Cafe as slow moving
or dull - but it's one of my most fave movies. So is When Night is Falling
and Serving in Silence.
BTWHowwould Glenn Close be for Selenay?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
texevd?????
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
obMisty: I have re-read the Winds books and Black and White Gryphon - in
particular does the role of the Hertasi grate a bit. I know that some of
them become mages - Gervase - but being bred to be servants????

Wind to thy Wings listsibs
Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 20:25:21 -0400
From: KayCeeFour-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Di Tregarde books
Message-ID: <961009202520_539986068-+AT+-emout16.mail.aol.com>


Greetings to all from another newbie emerging from the shadows of Lurkdom
momentarily.  As the only spell I've ever mastered has been a very successful
Hide in Plain Sight or Ignore Me spell, lurking is something I do quite well.

For those people keeping track I'm a 31 year old male who has been reading
fantasy since my sister lent me "The Hobbit" when I was 6 to keep me from
pestering her.  And like many of you on the list, when I finally get around
to building my own house, it will be designed around my book collection.

I just wanted to say "Hi" to everyone as well as point out what I'm sure was
an oversight.

Kimberly wrote on 10/06/96:

> For the record, 'course *grin* I liked Di Tregarde, but there were lots of
spots >where I disagreed with Di's idea of right and wrong. Threefold Law
never >mentioned. "Harm none" never mentioned. Sigh. Oh well. High fantasy
for >you. *self deprecating smile*)

I too enjoyed the Di books, but she does indeed mention "harm none" and the
Threefold Law, but not until the book "Jinx High".  Of course it is just
mentioned in passing, and not in great detail, but, IMHO, I don't think the
books were meant to be lesson in Wicca traditions.  If Misty had gone into
detail, it would have interrupted the flow of the stories, since teaching is
not what Di does.

  on ppg 110-111 of Jinx High Di tells Monica:
     "'"Witch" is just a religion, ok? No baby-sacrifices, no Black Masses,
      no sending imps out to scare the dog-snot out of kids, trying to make
      them think they are crazy.  We don't do things like that.  Our number-
      one law is "Have fun in this lifetime, but don't hurt anybody."
      Nice little paraphrase of "An it harm none, do as ye will," if I do say

      so myself."

   on pg 173 of Jinx High:
       "Her [Di] probe met resistance; a shield. A shield with the boundaries
       roughed with pain.  Aha.  The plot sickens.  So you felt that, did
you?
       Good.  About time the threefold retribution clause kicked in."

I think that the mention of these topics was inserted into the text of the
story in such a way that it did not disrupt the flow of the story itself.
 Mentioning more about the Di's belief's, IMHO, does not fit any of the 3
stories Misty has written.  She mentions enough so that if someone is not
familiar with these beliefs, then they can research it somewhere else.  I
don't believe Misty wrote the books to try to inform or convert anyone.   But
these are just my thoughts on the subject.  Feel free to agree/disagree at
will.



Retreating once more into the shadows of obscurity, 

Kerry

*********************************************************************
Without books, how many minds will go hungry tonight?
*********************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:        Wed, 09 Oct 1996 21:04:13 CST
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Becoming a Herald
Message-ID:  <09OCT96.22756036.0015.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

Someone made the very astute comment that it isn't so much how children
really learn as how Misty thinks they learn, at least for purposes of
her stories.
   Misty's characters seem to have a strong element of determinism to
their personalities.  Ancar was bad.  Why?  He was.  His father was a
nice guy, IIRC, so it couldn't have been that he had no role-models.  He
was just born mean.  Selenay's treacherous first husband and good old
Daren were from the same family, and even before he came under Tarma and
Kerowyn's influence, Daren wasn't *that* much of a schmuck.  On the flip
side, Tremane is a nice guy, even though everyone around him is a rat
bastard.  Why?  We don't know, he's just that good.
   Every so often, though, there's a character that gets a little more
sensitive handling, and I really think that Stef was one of them.  I
think in that character, you have the evolution of a person with the
potential to be totally selfish or totally benevolent.  You see him
decide what he wants to become, and try to live up to that.  You see him
work hard and become good, though probably never perfect.  The same
thing really happens to Vanyel, too.  You also have characters like
Jervis in that book, who do awful things, but are not presented as
fundamentally Born Awful people.  I keep saying this, but LHM has the
most subtle and realistic characterization of any of the Valdemar books.
It's just, gosh darnit, better written.

My own opinion on the subject of ethics is that everyone has what I
suppose you could call a Higher Self.  This is the person they have the
potential to be, the ideal version.  It isn't easy to, in effect,
actualize the higher self, to become that person, but most of us,
because most of us are essentially good people, do try.  Some people
believe it takes many lives to become the best of yourself; I don't know
if I believe that or not.
   The trick, I think, is to know what your higher self is like.  That
was both Vanyel's and Stef's problem: they had never spent a day in
their lives considering how they ought to be changing themselves.
Vanyel thought mainly about how everyone else needed to change, and
Stefen thought about how to get ahead.  What triggered their change was
coming face to face with the idea that they had higher selves, that what
they were was a choice, and excellence was one of their choices.
   Likewise with a character like Skif.  No, he wasn't perfectly moral
when Chosen -- he was trying to steal his Companion.  But the Cymry and
the gods knew that what Skif needed was to be introduced to his higher
self.  Once he was, Skif chose that as his future and worked for it.  So
many people believe that what they are is all that they are, and that's
what holds them back from being more.  Self-fulfilling prophecy and all
that.
   I think one's ability to be a Herald is not measured by whether or
not they're a good person -- otherwise wouldn't Mero have been chosen?
And Van's sister?  And about a million other people?  I have the sneaky
suspicion that it's a lot more practical than that.  I think Companions
choose the people with the right powers, trusting that good influences
and good guidance, and even old-fashioned peer pressure, will shape the
kid into the kind of person who is willing to work hard in order to
become her higher self.  Excluding, naturally, the Mistypeople who are
naturally bad and would never choose to be good, no matter what.
   Take Elspeth, for example.  There was the very real danger for a
while that she would not be Chosen.  Not because she was a bad or
immoral person, but because she was unwilling to accept the sacrifices
and dedication required to be a Higher Elspeth.  She was perfectly happy
the way she was, and she thought everyone else should feel lucky to be
around her.  Once that changed, she became Herald material.  Not so much
because Elspeth herself changed, as because she gained a new perspective
on the world.

I made a joke earlier about cosmic Companions, but in a sense I believe
in them.  That is, I believe that one's Higher Self is something one can
manifest and have a relationship with -- not physically manifest,
perhaps, but nevertheless.  Some people have a very abstract view of the
Higher Self and call it their conscience.  Other people find it easier
to give it a name and a form.  Who knows, maybe some of you visualize
your Higher Self as a white horse with blue eyes.
   Almost every writer and roleplayer I've ever known has at least one
character who is, deep down, her Higher Self.  A character who is the
creator only different, the best elements of that person, what she wants
to be.  I think a lot of us find ourselves, consciously or
unconsciously, sometimes wondering, "What would So-and-so do right now?"
I do it very intentionally -- my Higher Self is a blonde lady named
Nian, and when I'm really lost, I'll either sit down and write a scene
about her, or just close my eyes and chat with her a while.  How do you
ever become your Higher Self if you don't know who that person is or
what it would be like to be her?
   Not that everyone, even everyone's Higher Self is going to make a
great Herald.  But I think we sometimes read about soandso's heroic
exploits and say, "Hmph, he's a better person than I." It's maybe worth
considering that a character like Vanyel is a better person than most of
us because he wanted to be, and because he didn't settle for being what
he was.  No one forced Vanyel to be a hero.  No one even made it easy
for him.  And he wasn't Chosen because he was Vanyel Demonsbane.  For
Vanyel, being Chosen was not a recognition of his accomplishments, but
an act of grace.  It was someone saying to him, "There is something
great inside you.  Find it, and I'll go with you."
   In Valdemar, a talking horse can fill that role.  However, for those
of us who recognize what a powerful effect something like that can have
on a life, what's left is figuring out how to make the story real.  In
our world, the transformation will never begin with a Companion or a
guardian angel.  We have to be angels, Companions, and agents of grace
for ourselves and for each other.

End of sermon.

Hey, at least it was on topic.


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu
"The madness of demons is rage -- the madness of angels, hope."
    --A.A. Attanasio, *The Dragon and the Unicorn*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Oct 96 23:35:58 -0700
From: <ironhart-+AT+-nbn.com>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Yet another Newbie
Message-ID: <199610100631.XAA25973-+AT+-moon.nbn.com>

Heyla All!

I am new to the list, but have been lurking for about a week. I must say 
that I have enjoyed most of the exchanges.:) 

I am 31(will be 32 in a couple of weeks) for the benefit of the poll that 
I hear so much about. I am female and I adore fantasy!

My favorite authors ar Misty, McCaffrey, DeLint, and Huff. Has anyone 
noticed (if this has already been discussed, I apologize) the strong 
resemblence of the Di Tregarde series and the Vickey Nelson series by 
Huff? I don't mind, as I must admit that I adore both series.

I also thoroughly enjoyed the Bedlam Bards series (if this is the series 
that started with Eric at the Southern California Ren Faire. I must admin 
to a bias for this particular book, since I have worked at this faire 
(though now I only work the Northern Cal Faire) and I now this site very 
well. I do english, Irish, and Morris dancing, I was hooked from the time 
I read the dedication on! :)

I have enjoyed everything of Misty's that I have read, with the exception 
of the Bard series that started with Castle Deception ( I think this was 
the name of it) It's the one with the dark elf Naitchel in it. I have 
tried several times, but I just get bored with it. As far as some stories 
being "better" than others, I have always approached them with the 
attitude that they are just entertainment, so while there are some books 
that I like better than others, I try not to pick any of them apart. I 
want to be entertained. They have entertained me. :)

On the subject of Talia Di being short. Personally, I like reading about 
tall heroines.:) I guess it has something to do with the fact that I am 
six feet tall. I haven't found many heroines that are REALLY tall, so it 
is nice when I do find one. :) I do like reading about a heroine that 
ISN'T drop dead gorgeous though. It seems that there aren't many 
hero/heroines that are based more on what the general population looks 
like. 

On MZB, I have read a few of her books, and have enjoyed them. I think 
that they were all in the Darkover series. I haven't read much, because I 
can never find the books in the orderthat they are supposed to be read 
in. (exasperated sigh) I don't want to get into the situation of starting 
a book that doesn't make sense beacause I didn't read the preceeding 
book. Can these books be read out of order, or will they not make sense?

Does anyone know if Misty is going to write more in the Di Tregarde 
series? How about Sacred Ground? That one seems to have a lot of 
possiblities. Something that I think that I would really like to see 
would be for her to come out with a book in which several of her 
characters come together to solve a crime. Maybe the characters from 
Sacred Ground could meet up with the characters from the Di Tregarde 
series. It could be alot of fun!

Well, I think that this has been an awfully long post for a newbie. Just 
wanted to poke my head up and say Hi.

Dawnstar
ironhart-+AT+-nbn.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 02:46:43 -0500
From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: LONGPOST/newbie/Yw.bk.rd./time?/spirits/confession/casting/littlemm
Message-ID: <199610100656.CAA01784-+AT+-sirocco.CC.McGill.CA>

LURKLURKLURKLURKLURKLURKLURKLURKLURKLURKLURKLURKLURKLURKLURKLURKLURKLURK
(sung to the JAW'S theme -- John Williams)
"Captain, there's a Klingon vessel decloak...er, delurking?"
"On Screen."

Hi.
I've been lurking for ooohhhhhh, maybe three days, and just couldn't stand it 
any more.  (I'm a blabbermouth and just can't keep it shut for too 
long...something like Tfyrr's bit/muzzle contraption would really screw me 
royally, because I would get a dry throat, yet salivate like crazy, and worst 
of all, nobody would understand my whining/b*tching)
For [Insert Name]'s poll, I'm 18 years old.  A friend started me on Misty by 
loaning me _Winds of Fate_.  When I finally got to the states, I devoured 
every single Misty book in the library.  Funny thing is, in a sense, 
Falconsbane introduced me to my best friend.  There is a little good in every 
evil, after all.
"I know there is good in you.  The Emperor hasn't driven it fully away."
As can be evidenced by my many quotes and my header, I have a ton of interests 
and some mid-term studying procrastination to take care of.  I still haven't 
gotten through all of today's mail.  You guys write a lot.  *grin*  That's 
good.  Seeing all the recent bloodshed from the last battle of the academia 
sort, I'm not even gonna bother mentioning what I'm studying until engineering 
actually comes up in one of the threads.  Oops, I said it, didn't I?  Oh, 
well.  I'm trying to procrastinate all the way 'till two.

Here's a list of what I will talk about in this post (if you can't read the 
whole subject line, so you can judge for yourself what you want to read) (yes, 
I will update this when I'm done):

Going to Valdemar?/Time Travel?/Spirits/Confession/Casting picks/The Little 
Mermaid/Morals and Heralds/My very own obMisty

FOLLOWTHEYELLOWBRICKROAD...COMEONANDEASEONDOWNEASEONDOWNTHEROAD...FOLLOWFOLLOW

Would I go to Valdemar if I knew I would be chosen and etc.?
	I must agree with others that my family would get to decide on their 
own.  No offense, but if I were in Valdemar and they were in the "real" 
<snort> world, we'd probably all be better off.
	I'm definately altruistic enough to enjoy being a Herald.  No, I don't 
think it's all fun and games.  Granted, I would grumble and complain about the 
work load, but overall, I'd feel it was worth it.  However, I'm not sure I'd 
want to be a Herald.  I'm torn between my altruism and music.  (I'm just 
waiting to get my act together to send in my stuff for my Bard (all three 
gifts) and my Herald -- I still have to write their stories, the 10 page paper 
on music ("What Black Slave Music Reveals About the Mind of the Ante-Bellum 
Slave" -- I'll e-mail it if you're interested) was a piece of cake compared to 
how long it's taking me to get them written).  Faux Faulkner, here I come.
	Who knows, maybe my parents would be impressed if they realized I was 
finally in a situation where I would definately become "mature and 
responsible" (though IMHO, I could always use a David Spotted Horse to be in 
charge of fun).

TIMETRAVEL??????????TIMETRAVEL??????????TIMETRAVEL??????????TIMETRAVEL????????
On Monday 7 Oct, Lady 'Reesa wrote:
>>ObMisty:  I don't really recall anything of Misty's dealing with Time
Travel.  Although, you must admit, that would have been a nifty way to deal
with the Mage-Storms.  (*sigh*  Lame, kinda, but consider the possibilities
and get back to me...*grin*)<<

Wait a minute.  I'm confused.  How would time travel work in Velgarth?  I'll 
admit it would be really cool, but I don't know if it would go over too well, 
seeing as it took a mage storm of phenomenal, super, 10x Hiroshima, 
power/force in order to slip the bounds of three dimensions, warp the fabric 
of time, and jump centuries (or was it millenia?)  If you could explain 
further, I would be deeply grateful.

SPIRITS~~~~~SPIRITS~~~~~SPIRITS~~~~~SPIRITS~~~~~SPIRITS~~~~~SPIRITS~~~~~
On Mon Oct. 7, Lisa Prior wrote:
>>One other talent I thought of.  Is there any one who can see or talk to 
spirits?  You know ghosts.  Misty dealt with it a bit with having Kris and 
Lendel talk to people in dreams but there have always been stories of 
people who talk to ghosts.  Kinda like Tannim does.  Helping them 
move on to the afterlife.<<

I dunno.  Seems to me like that would be something in the realm of the 
shamans, in Velgarth, and we haven't seen enough action with them to know for 
sure.  In her Urban Fiction, it seems like the spirits are a lot closer, more 
abundant, a more pressing problem, and therefore more noticed.  Could it be a 
comment on the differences between "our western society" and Velgarth's 
slightly more idealistic realm that there are more people here who die, yet 
linger.  Along that line of reasoning, could it also be because "we" have more 
suicides?

Come to think of it, the only suicides I can remember from Velgarth are 
'Lendel, Companions who have lost their Heralds, and Lifebonded who have lost 
their bond mate.  I know this is a macabre topic, but does anyone else want to 
comment on the suicide situation in Velgarth?  Is it just that it's brushed 
over (just like here) unless it's somebody important to us?  Or does it just 
not happen that much in Velgarth?
Along the psychometry line, didn't Vanyel do it, too when he cast the spell to 
see what had happened in Savil's Workplace(?) that awful night?

CONFESSION - CONFESSION - CONFESSION - CONFESSION - CONFESSION - CONFESSION
All right.  I 'fess up.  I not only loved the LHM trilogy, but I also have 
passionate feelings for the Oaths, the Bardic Voices, Sacred Ground, and the 
Knights of etc. Eric the Bard books.  Maybe I enjoy the urban fiction books so 
much *because* it's a little closer to home (aka "the real world").  That 
makes it all the more enjoyable, seeing the magic in the real world, rather 
than more unbelievable.  It keeps alive my sense of wonder and hope for elves 
in this world (I already believe in magic).

*****CASTING*****CASTING*****CASTING*****CASTING*****CASTING*****CASTING*****
I *definately* agree with Gates McFadden as Selenay.
Does anybody here watch Lois & Clark?  Because the guy who played Lord Nor on 
the premieres would be an absolutely *awesome* Falconsbane.  Actually, he 
might be too funny there, and would probably do better as Ma'ar.
Just my $.02.

LITTLEMERMAID~~~~~LITTLEMERMAID~~~~~LITTLEMERMAID~~~~~LITTLEMERMAID~~~~~
On Mon Oct 7, Undine wrote:
>>Have you read "The Little Mermaid" recently? 'cause it actually has a 
happy (in a christian sort of way) ending. She doesn't get the prince but 
instead of turning into seafoam like mermaids usually do when they die 
('cause they don't have souls), she does get to go to heaven.<<

Whoa.  I thought she didn't go to heaven, but became a sort of air spirit kind 
of thing, destined to roam the earth for a certain number of years before she 
could retire to heaven, and whenever she saw a bad thing (like children 
disrespecting their elders, etc.), she got extra years, and whenever she saw a 
good thing, she got years taken off the sentence. <gasp>  So, the moral of the 
story was: "Be good little kids so that the little mermaid and all her spirit 
friends can finally rest in heaven."
You know what?  I didn't really figure that out until I started writing it.  I 
*love* stream of consciousness.
And procrastination.

MORALSMORALSMORALSMORALSMORALSMORALSMORALSMORALSMORALSMORALSMORALSMORALSMORALS
Sorry, no quotes.
I've been seeing some stuff about how Talia, Naeb (sp?), and Skiff were chosen 
despite their aweful backgrounds, and how Stefen wasn't because of his 
background.
Hmmmm.  Let's see.
One thing I remember for sure was that Talia always had that escape into 
books.  She looked up to Heralds, because in her books, they were portrayed as 
good, and just, and respectable, etc.  which they really are.  So, from her 
books (besides from her brother who got killed and her sister who got married 
and changed her mind), she got her sense of morals that made her "right" for 
choosing.  Besides, with a gift like her Empathy, if Roland hadn't come along 
to waken that gift, it would have later on its own.  Can you imagine the 
consequences of something like the poker incident if her gift were awake?  
*shudder*.
Skiff.  I have no clue how he got chosen unless even though stealing was the 
only way he survived he knew it was wrong, and that he kept it up just for 
mischief, or...I don't know.  He didn't really have an escape (that we know 
of) where he could formulate his moral code.  Maybe he knew there was another 
way to live (by interacting with the lives of people who lived that way while 
stealing from them).
Stefen.  I guess he had an escape in his music, but for some reason he didn't 
use it to imagine he had a better world.  But then again, he didn't know any 
other way of living, and had always thought of a life as a possession (in his 
case, he belonged to the old woman) -- look at how he reacted to being told he 
"belonged to Valdemar".
Okay, I can't get much deeper at 02:30, no matter how hard I'm trying to 
procrastinate.
Sorry.
Please feel free to respond to any points I raised.  Actually, I'm looking 
forward to it immensely.

My very own ObMisty:	Hmm.  I don't know if anyone has raised this point 
before (I'm not surprised, because I can think of holes in it off the top of 
my head), but what if Florian were actually Grove born?  Nobody knew Gwenna 
was, and maybe the hint of person was ... was ... the Herald Florian might 
become? nah,...er, help?

Taking back to the shadows of anonymity (for now) with a semi-satisfied smile 
and a semi-baffled head scratch, not to mention a wedgie,

Deniz Sarikaya
a.k.a.	(in order of conception)
	Flash
	Herald Aynur Sonmez
	Freak
	Bard Melanie I-don't-have-a-last-name-yet
	Free Bard Woodlark
	Red Dog
	Furry Rescuer
	Floating Angel

P.S.:	Could I be Goddess of freaks?  or sopranos (not the 
hold-the-bulb-and-the-world-revolves-around-her-type, but the *real* serious, 
good soprono type)? or maybe Hot Climes (I grew up in Saudi Arabia from the 
ages of 3 to 15 years)? or how'sabout the sea (that's what my name means in 
Turkish)?  Pleeeeeeeeeaaaaase?  Preettty please?
Maybe whining might be more suitable.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:59:32 +0100
From: RIB - Richard Bertelsen <rib-+AT+-scanjour.dk>
To: "'M.L. Post'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Collaborating
Message-ID: <c=DK%a=_%p=scanjour%l=VIMS-961010075932Z-172-+AT+-vims.scanjour.dk>

Hi

Adrienne wondered about why so many people were collaborating.

I think that one of the reasons is, that an author own a universe and
have some story-ideas but doesn't have the time to write the books. Then
the publishers help finding someone else to do at least most of the
writing.

This way the author can keep control of his/her universe and perhaps
give a lesser known author the chance to become known by a larger
audience.

This is (as far as I remember) the point Anne McCaffrey made, when I met
her at the Worldcom in 1990 (The Hague in the Neatherlands). (I think
that it was at that Worldcon).

Sometimes It just is so that two or more authors realize that they can
produce better work together as they can inspire each other.

Collaborations have been around for a long time, think of the good work
produced by Frederik Pohl and C. Kornbluth and the famous Lewis Padgett
who was C. L. Moore and Henry Kuttner.

Richard (Yet to decide what to become God of).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:15:45 +0100
From: RIB - Richard Bertelsen <rib-+AT+-scanjour.dk>
To: "'M.L. Post'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: RE: MZB book order
Message-ID: <c=DK%a=_%p=scanjour%l=VIMS-961010081545Z-174-+AT+-vims.scanjour.dk>

Hi!

Dawnstar wondered about the order of MZB's Darkover books.

The books can be read in "internal chronological order", but most of
them were NOT written in this order. I think The World Wreakers (?) was
among the 2 of 3 first written.

Most of the books are written so that they stand alone.

I remember that MZB wrote in an introdiction, that she did NOT work hard
on consistency across the series, this can mean that a distance between
two locations is given as 3 days in one book and 7 days in another.

Richard (yet to decide, whar to be God of).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:56:05 +0100 (BST)
From: Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Offtopicosity
Message-ID: <199610100956.KAA08523-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>


I don't mind the occasional off-topic or only-tangentially-connected post,
especially when the list's fairly quiet, as it is at the moment. The likelihood
of me asking people to take off-topic stuff off-list increases at least 
linearly with the amount of list traffic -- if we're running at more than two
digests a day, and you're posting a lot of fluff, expect to be asked to take
it elsewhere. 

On the other hand, as per my occasionally-posted Rules of Thumb, there are 
some things which should never be posted at all -- chain letters and the like.

But your listmistress is generally a relaxed and benevolent listmistress, as
long as you refrain from clogging up her inbox _too_ much and/or ripping each
other limb from limb. :)

Mel

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:34:34 -0400
From: Chris & Sean Talbot <brujah-+AT+-idirect.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Becoming a Herald
Message-ID: <199610101134.HAA23060-+AT+-nemesis.idirect.com>

At 03:21 AM 10/10/96 +0100, you wrote:
>Someone made the very astute comment that it isn't so much how children
>really learn as how Misty thinks they learn, at least for purposes of
>her stories.
I agree.  She likes to make them learn in different ways so they do things
most of us would not think of doing.

>   Misty's characters seem to have a strong element of determinism to
>their personalities.  Ancar was bad.  Why?  He was.  His father was a
>nice guy, IIRC, so it couldn't have been that he had no role-models.
It was Hulda who molded him into his personality and not his father.  His
father was a loved ruler like Selenay  and you remember how Elspeth turned
out.  They could have turned out the same because of Hulda or because each
ruler didn't have that much time to deal with the child.


  He
>was just born mean.  Selenay's treacherous first husband and good old
>Daren were from the same family, and even before he came under Tarma and
>Kerowyn's influence, Daren wasn't *that* much of a schmuck.  
Well now that was easy with so many children in the family and not enough
time for them at least one would have to turn out to be arrogant and do
things that wouldn't be good or would embarass the family.

On the flip
>side, Tremane is a nice guy, even though everyone around him is a rat
>bastard.  Why?  We don't know, he's just that good.
Well if he was so good why didn't he wait around until he found the truth
about the mage storms.  All he cares about are his men and that is too him
what is important.  Since it is his command.

Aistes


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:55:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: a quick question
Message-ID: <199610101255.AA108452135-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu>

Here I am, delurking for the time being.  I've got a quick question about SB
(don't worry, it's not a spoiler).

In one of the first few chapters, Silverfox is saying something about the
kestra'cherns (IIRC during a discussion about Urtho and whatever else
happened after the Cataclysm).  Anyway, he mentioned something about Tadrith
Wyrsabane being a kestra'chern.  Tad was with the Silver Gryphons, but
wasn't his brother (blanking on the name) going to be a healer/trondir'in
(sp)/kestra'chern?  Is this reference just a mistake/misprint, or did I miss
something?

Nina


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:34:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Offtopicosity
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961010102846.2329A-100000-+AT+-copland.udel.edu>

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Melanie Dymond Harper wrote:

> But your listmistress is generally a relaxed and benevolent listmistress, as
> long as you refrain from clogging up her inbox _too_ much and/or ripping each
> other limb from limb. :)

Damn!  And just when I thought this list was a place for fun and games
(Just remember, it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye...then
it's just fun!)  Oh, well.  I guess I will have to find a new use for my
shiny new "Limb Extractor 3000lx"!  *pout*

Still, I suppose that this new limitation doesn't rule out extracting
pounds of flesh, does it. =)  Hmmmm.  The possibilities are endless, since
with a finely honed fetching gift it should be possible to get around the
problems that stopped Shylock.  *hee-he-he*

May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit,

Cennydd,

Mage of the Green Silences.

Kenneth Allen Hyde     |  No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife
Univ. of Delaware      |  between the shoulder blades will seriously
Dept. of Linguistics   |  cramp his style  -- Old Jhereg proverb
kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu         |  A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me

**http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html**


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:41:08 +0000
From: "Vrondi" <deanca-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Heathens
Message-ID: <199610101444.KAA16725-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu>

On  8 Oct 96 Jake wrote:
> Stormcloud also wrote:
> 
> >Heathen # 81 got her heathen stuff and her Life's Flame CD and is a 
> >very happy camper!  I _love_ Creature of the Wood.... for some 
> >strange reason that song strikes a chord someplace in me.  *happy 
> >sigh*  

Then Jake wrote:
> Heathen #70 smiles at Heathen #81, and looks at Heathen-to-be Mat, wondering
> what happened to his stuff! *grin* And Creature of the Wood?  I love it.
> *grin* And BlackJack Lady.  And Life's Flame! *grin grin grin grin* 
> 
Ah! listmembers after my own heart!  (gryns evily)  my best friend 
and I used to flip everybody out singing that song along with the 
Phoenyx tape cranked up full blast on long band trips.  _LOVE_ that 
song!

   -Vrondi,"Mistress of the Air, One With the Trees"
      a.k.a. Free Bard Oriole  a.k.a. Chrys Amy Dean

"To light a candle is to cast a shadow..."
-The Master Hand "A Wizard of Earthsea" by Usrula K. Le Guin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:00:18 -0400
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: Tadrith
Message-ID: <199610101100_MC1-ACA-3063-+AT+-compuserve.com>

Hmm - maybe tad did become a kesta'chern or at least a field healer for the 
silvers, after SG. After all, talk about learning the hard way how a little know-
ledge can go a far way <g> Don't forget, despite K'Leysha's attempt at keeping
the kaled'a'in language pure, they didn't succeed at that, so it's entirely possible
that the legends from that time became garbled (like merging tad and his brother
into one character)
:shrugs:
just some stray thoughts on the matter
firemist

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:05:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Morgana <morgana-+AT+-armory.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Regarding the many bounces, and MZB
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.91.961010080119.19887A-100000-+AT+-deepthought.armory.com>

On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote:
> ATTENTION MZB FANS:
> there's a new MZB Darkover book out in hardcover that takes place after the
> Sharra incident. I haven't bought it yet (mournful look at empty wallet), but
> will get it soon!
> 
<giggle> Exile's Song? I was just reading that last night <Wensday night> 
Good booy! Very good read! I've read it about 5-6 times now, and I got it 
when it first came out. :) :) Hm... maybe *that's* where all my moving 
money went... doh! :)

Hm.... obmisty.... hm.... Okay, I think this has already been mentioned, 
but doesn't the focus stones that Van and the Guardians <g><No, not the 
filk group/rock band> remind anyone else of matrix's<sp!>? And did anyone 
know why we haven't seen any since LHM? :)

	Morgana, Goddess of Things Unseen
		 and depressed student of 
		 the hectic lifestyle

** Except for the boy in the belfry he's crazy, he's throwing himself down 
from the top of the tower like a hunchback in heaven He's ringing the 
bells in the church for the last half an hour. He sounds like he's 
missing something or someone that he knows he can't have now, and if he 
isn't I certainly am. **



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:03:58 -0700
From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: a quick question
Message-ID: <199610101603.JAA04548-+AT+-latimes.com>

>Here I am, delurking for the time being.  I've got a quick question about SB
>(don't worry, it's not a spoiler).
>
>In one of the first few chapters, Silverfox is saying something about the
>kestra'cherns (IIRC during a discussion about Urtho and whatever else
>happened after the Cataclysm).  Anyway, he mentioned something about Tadrith
>Wyrsabane being a kestra'chern.  Tad was with the Silver Gryphons, but
>wasn't his brother (blanking on the name) going to be a healer/trondir'in
>(sp)/kestra'chern?  Is this reference just a mistake/misprint, or did I miss
>something?
>

Sigh.  That's probably a glitch that a certain hypothetical editor (whom I
beginning to believe does not really exist) failed to catch.
Fantasy/Science Fiction worlds are a pain to write in because you have a
billion details you have to keep track of (what is and is not the same as
the "real" world) and, often literally, a "cast of thousands."  Anne
McCaffrey has some classic gaffs that made it into print in the Pern series,
and just about every other established science fiction/fantasy author can
say the same.  Star Trek contains a few, but the Powers that Be have taken
to publishing books correcting those gaffs to appease the fans who keep
track of such things (gaffs concerning the Malcorians--yes, they are named
after my family--have appeared in a couple such books).  Presses should make
it a policy, at least for their big name authors, to have SOMEONE
(preferably an avid fan who keeps track of every little detail) to edit
specifically for this sort of thing.  Ah, but then I'm dreaming again, eh?

Danya 


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:45:18 -0700
From: davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 866
Message-ID: <PQSXywHqhFNC088yn-+AT+-cet.com>



On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 HTH asked;

>Ah, here's a related question.  The Darkover trilogy about the
>Renunciates -- Shattered Chain, 

Excellant book.

>Thendara House, 

Almost as good as Chain.

>and City of Sorcery.

Uhmmm. Not as good as the first two (IMHO, natch) but not bad. Two 
problems, we go off on this big search but never get there (bookus
interruptus again) and the political message is a bit heavy-handed 
at times. (I agree with the message but I prefer propaganda to be
subtle and not distract/detract from the story.)

Now where did I leave that asbestos armor? <grin>

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++><------------------------------------

On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 Our Favorite Water Sprite said;

>SB Spoilerette:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I have to disagree with Cennydd. I don't think that magic will return to 
>its pre-SB levels. Magic changed after the MageWars 'cause at one point 
>Falconsbane is musing that he doesn't have as much power at his diposal 
>as he did when he was Ma'ar. 

OTOH, Falconsbane didn't have as much of most things (power, sanity, 
morals, brains) as he had when he was Ma'ar so I humbly suggest that
this may not be the best support for your point. 8-)# He did have more
hair though.

>
>
>

What fun, I get play even if I havn't read SB yet!

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>End SB Spoilerette



David Tiffany, Gothicly typecast 

Impunity, n. Wealth.  -Ambrose Bierce


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 13:52:22 EDT
From: Cecelia Marsh <k95cm02-+AT+-kzoo.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Delurking
Message-ID: <199610101752.NAA24370-+AT+-hobbes.kzoo.edu>

	I'm nineteen, female, and My very favorite Misty books are the
SERRAted edge books.  I have to agree with the person who said that they're
good because they're so close to here, you think maybe that they're true,
and someday you'll see a guy with cat's eyes and elves ears.  THis is why my
favorite writers are people like Nina Kiriki Hoffman, Charles deLint, Dianne
Wynne Jones, and Tom Deitz, (among many many other marginally less, or
differently favorite authors)all of whom write books about magic here 
(or Almost-Here, but close enough)  
				Love and kisses, Celia
	PS, the way everybody asks to be god(dess) of things always reminds
me of the Bikers of the Apocalypse scene in Good Omens.  If you've read it
you should know what I mean, and if you haven't then you should read the
book (by Pratchett and Gaiman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------	
		We'll always love you but that's not the point
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Cecelia Ann Marsh			|"You've been reading 	     |
 Box 444 Hicks Center  			|too much meaning from	     |
 Kalamazoo MI 49006			|existence" 		     |
 E-mail: k95cm02-+AT+-kzoo.edu		|			     |
 http://www.kzoo.edu/~k95cm02/		|	   -James _Lullaby_  |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 868
*********************************