MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 869 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: MZB book order by 2) Re: MZB book order by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu 3) RE: Grove born Companions by RIB - Richard Bertelsen 4) Grove-born Companions by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" 5) Determinism/Characters/Stefen/et al by Lynne Markova 6) Editing of books by JWSCHM00-+AT+-UKCC.UKY.EDU 7) Re: Kushner/fantasy/degrees/offtopiciosity by Michelle Nicole Reis 8) Fwd: Grove-born Companions by 9) Fwd: RE: Grove born Companions by 10) RE: MZB book order by Michelle Nicole Reis 11) Re: Fwd: RE: Grove born Companions by Michelle Nicole Reis 12) Re: Offtopicosity/Good Omens/good books? by Soljan-+AT+-aol.com 13) Re: Offtopicosity/Good Omens/good books? by Claris Smith 14) Braid: Recycled material/MZB/WELCOME TO DENIZ!!! by myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao) 15) Groveborn Companions by 16) Reply to: Grove-born Companions by Rozanna McNeer 17) good books? by Rozanna McNeer 18) Reply to: Groveborn Companions by Rozanna McNeer 19) Re: Groveborn Companions by "Heather D. Wegemer" 20) RE: MZB book order by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" 21) good books for reports by 22) MZB/Firerose in pb/SB spoiler by undine 23) Re: Response to Adrienne/delurking/Monty/Misty and Piers by Kintara-+AT+-aol.com 24) Re: good books? by Cecelia Marsh 25) oops/OBMisty by davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker) 26) B-day/Mine Godhead/Off-topicness/IIPTNIG/Python by Mat the Cat in Green 27) A plea by "Katherine M. Brielmaier" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 11:42:55 -0700 From: To: Subject: RE: MZB book order Message-ID: <199610101838.LAA17228-+AT+-moon.nbn.com> Great! It sounds like I can read the darkover novels out of order. I tried this when in jr.high school with McCaffrey's Dragonrider series, starting with the White Dragon, and couldn't get through it, because I had missed all the pertinent points that happened before.(ie: what was thread) After several years I tried again, starting with the first book in the series, and it has become one of my favorite series/worlds. A question about Companions. In the books that I have read, they all allude to Talia's Companion having been grove born, and then we find out that Elspeth's Companion was also grove born. They don't seem to tell us (at least I don't remember if they do) what exactly that means. Do they have more powers than an "ordinary" Companion? I know being grove born is a special designation, but why? Also, what do you all think the chances are of Darkwind being Chosen, now that he is in Valdemar? It seems like he would be a good choice. Good morals, good person, wants to help others, ect. Dawnstar Possibly the Goddess of Secrecy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:52:21 -0500 (CDT) From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MZB book order Message-ID: <199610101852.AA129963541-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu> > A question about Companions. In the books that I have read, they all > allude to Talia's Companion having been grove born, and then we find out > that Elspeth's Companion was also grove born. They don't seem to tell us > (at least I don't remember if they do) what exactly that means. Do they > have more powers than an "ordinary" Companion? I know being grove born is > a special designation, but why? Unlike the other companions, grove born ones aren't foaled. They magically appear--as did the first Companions in repsonse to Barron Vlademar's plea to the gods for help. They are mortal, but I'm not sure about any other specific characteristics. AFAIK, the Monarch's Own Companion is always grove born, and he/she doesn't die when his/her Chosen does. After Talamir died, Rolan went and sought out Talia. In the cases with the other Companions, I think they die with their Chosen (usually both are killed in battle). Gwena is grove born because of Elspeth's mage ability (I think). Gwena even says that they are a "special pairing"---I guess that drastic times call for specific measures. > > Also, what do you all think the chances are of Darkwind being Chosen, now > that he is in Valdemar? It seems like he would be a good choice. Good > morals, good person, wants to help others, ect. > Probably not since he already is bonded to Vree. The same could be suggested for Karal, but he has Altra. Kerowyn did not care for eveything (and everyone) talking in her head (see WoFury), and I don't think Darkwind or Karal would much appreciate it, either. (g) Nina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 19:50:18 +0100 From: RIB - Richard Bertelsen To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: Grove born Companions Message-ID: Dawnstar wrote: >>> >A question about Companions. In the books that I have read, they all >allude to Talia's Companion having been grove born, and then we find out >that Elspeth's Companion was also grove born. They don't seem to tell us >(at least I don't remember if they do) what exactly that means. Do they >have more powers than an "ordinary" Companion? I know being grove born is >a special designation, but why?<< As far as I remember, grove born Companions always give their names and the Queen's/King's Own herald always have a grove-born Companion. Richard (yet to decide, what to be god of) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:32:52 -0700 From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Grove-born Companions Message-ID: <199610101932.MAA09995-+AT+-latimes.com> At 08:11 PM 10/10/96 +0100, nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu wrote: >Gwena is grove born because of Elspeth's mage ability (I think). Gwena even >says that they are a "special pairing"---I guess that drastic times call for >specific measures. Now, there is something that has constantly puzzled me. Misty makes this big deal about Gwena repeatedly. Aside from the fact that Gwena can talk to Rolan over a longer distance than most, has she ever done anything at all that a normal Companion could not have done? What the heck is so special in this pairing? In a similar vein, Yfandes is apparently something pretty special (She does not Choose for an abnormally long time--or at least that's what Savil "thinks" is the case. Doesn't she first appear somewhere around the Grove when she Chooses Van?). Can anyone come up with textevd as to whether or not Yfandes was Grove-born? Danya ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:37:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynne Markova To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Determinism/Characters/Stefen/et al Message-ID: Lady Sophia stops nursing her aching back long enough to reply: RE: Determinism Certainly, several of Misty's characters *were* just bad guys. But in Ancar's case, he almost certainly was corrupted by Hilda. In Falconsbane's case, the extended lifespan probably made him crazy - not that Ma'ar was *that* great a guy to begin with. In terms of getting Chosen: well, Talia was a misfit, with excellent mediation and nurturing skills - not to mention being very perceptive. (I suspect her unhappy, abusive environment made her all the more *aware* of other peoples' feelings). She probably took refuge into "escaping" into fantasy - and, also, as one of several children, she would not necessarily be noticed *all* of the time - as long as she did her work, kept quiet and kept out of the way. Neave, too - and Skif - I think it is the underlying Heraldic *potential* in a person that gets them Chosen - so, by the time they are finished at the Collegium, their ethics, sense of duty and morality is honed to the point where they act for the good of the country automatically. RE: Stefen One of the reason I think Stefen didn't get Chosen was that he had something else - the Bardic Gift. No one would question why Davan, or ... Rynee? or any of the other Healers didn't get Chosen - they have something *else* they are meant to do. I think Stefen had an excellent sense of ethics and morality, after he was placed in an environment that nurtured them - but he could also do the Kingdom far more good as a Bard, first of all, in sustaining the King's life, and second of all, establishing "just" Heralds as equals of the Herald-Mages. Music can be an all-consuming, all-encompassing passion. Also, perhaps he did not have the necessary interests in mediation, jurisprudence, and so on? Better a first-rate Bard than an second-rate Herald. (Just MHO, of course). I think more could be made of the life in the various Collegia - I'm glad we got to see the Blues, but it would be nice to see more of the Bards and the Healers. Lady Sophia, Goddess of Music and Song (ouch!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 15:34:07 EDT From: JWSCHM00-+AT+-UKCC.UKY.EDU To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Editing of books Message-ID: <961010.153821.EDT.JWSCHM00-+AT+-ukcc.uky.edu> Heyla all, Danya was talking about editors and *voila* (or as we say *viola* 8-) ), this turned up on another list I read (Childlit). Notice the reply message that mentions a certain author we all like at least a little bit. Thought you might be interested. Mistfox ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > The following refers to a children's author, Kristiana Gregory. >Ms. Gregory is known for her historical fiction and has been publishing for >years before Karen Cushman's Newberys were awarded. I am not sure what >happened with this latest book (I have not read it yet). I also do not know >what is going on at Scholastic, but at the recent Society of Children's Book >Writers and Illustrators Convention many participants and presenters noted >the cutback in the editorial staff and functions at publishers (especially >the large ones) as they must meet more and more stringent budgets and have >higher and higher profit margins. Numerous reviews of books written for >adults note that there appears to be no editor in charge. In general bringing >an author along and giving her or him the attention we used to take for >granted is going the way of the dinosaurs. > > Seems so. The typos and plain mistakes that come in books of the last 20 years or so would curl your hair. I just read a hardcover fantasy novel (Mercedes Lackey's latest) in which (a) a character left the scene, and a couple of paragraphs later was still there, and (b) "Hear, hear!" was rendered as "Here, here!" I don't blame Lackey for these; I don't see how one person can be expected to produce perfection. But obviously, the publisher didn't think this $22. book was worth hiring a copy editor for. Bonita -- Bonita Kale bf455-+AT+-cleveland.freenet.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:26:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Michelle Nicole Reis To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kushner/fantasy/degrees/offtopiciosity Message-ID: I don't think there should be guidelines for list topics. If there(for some odd reason or another) is a fight over credentials, topics, or bed- mates that other listmembers don't like, then for pity's sake skim and delete that bit of mail. Just because its on the list doesn't mean you have to participate. Everyone else can just carry on the legitimate fantasy/sci-fi/lackey news and comment and ignore the "fluff". And,no, there should be no geaes to speak only of Misty. The great thing about us appreciating her stuff is that we can appreciate others' stuff too. So everyone just "get along". O.K. so this is the end of my tyrannical ranting and raving. Lightstorm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 13:43:26 -0700 From: To: Subject: Fwd: Grove-born Companions Message-ID: <199610102038.NAA22476-+AT+-moon.nbn.com> >>At 08:11 PM 10/10/96 +0100, nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu wrote: >>Gwena is grove born because of Elspeth's mage ability (I think). Gwena even >>says that they are a "special pairing"---I guess that drastic times call for >>specific measures. >Now, there is something that has constantly puzzled me. Misty makes this >big deal about Gwena repeatedly. Aside from the fact that Gwena can talk to >Rolan over a longer distance than most, has she ever done anything at all >that a normal Companion could not have done? What the heck is so special in >this pairing? >In a similar vein, Yfandes is apparently something pretty special (She does >not Choose for an abnormally long time--or at least that's what Savil >"thinks" is the case. Doesn't she first appear somewhere around the Grove >when she Chooses Van?). Can anyone come up with textevd as to whether or >not Yfandes was Grove-born? I have always assumed that a big deal was made of this "special pairing" because Misty was setting up a future book. As far as Darkwind bonding with a Companion, I wouldn't think that Vree would have that much problem with Darkwind being chosen. He wouldn't be replacing Vree, he would be adding to the "family". Also, the bondbirds have been described as not being anywhere near as intelligent as a Companion. Right? Although they have strong bonds with the bondbirds, I didn't think that they were constantly, consciously linked. I don't think even Heralds and Companions are consciously linked all the time. If this is true, then I wouldn't think that having a dual bond. Whatcha think? Dawnstar Definately the Goddess of Secrecy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 13:44:13 -0700 From: To: Subject: Fwd: RE: Grove born Companions Message-ID: <199610102039.NAA22506-+AT+-moon.nbn.com> >As far as I remember, grove born Companions always give their names >and the Queen's/King's Own herald always have a grove-born Companion. I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you elaborate? Dawnstar Goddess of Secrecy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:23:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Michelle Nicole Reis To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: MZB book order Message-ID: In response to Dawnstar's question bout Groveborn Companions: Groveborns are different because unlke other Companions, Groveborns have no "real life" experiene. All of the others had lived human lives before, so they could help their Chosen if needed. Groveborn don't have that experience to draw on (refer to Winds of Fury?? where Vanyel is commenting on it. If anyone else can help me here, feel free. Lightstorm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:29:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Michelle Nicole Reis To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: Grove born Companions Message-ID: Groveborn Companions always give their Chosen their (the Companions') name. Some other Companions let their Chosen choose their names. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 17:41:57 -0400 From: Soljan-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Offtopicosity/Good Omens/good books? Message-ID: <961010174003_1379762234-+AT+-emout10.mail.aol.com> Cennydd writes: << Still, I suppose that this new limitation doesn't rule out extracting pounds of flesh, does it. =) Hmmmm. The possibilities are endless, since with a finely honed fetching gift it should be possible to get around the problems that stopped Shylock. *hee-he-he* >> As soon as you started talking abou that Shylock came to mind. Then, there it is at the end. Hee hee. Unlike a lot of people in my class, I *like* Shakespeare! _Merchant of Venice_ was really good. Tee hee. I even wrote an essay about Shylock. We're reading _The Tragedy of Julius Caesar_ now. I like this one too. Cecelia Ann Marsh writes: >>PS, the way everybody asks to be god(dess) of things always reminds me of the Bikers of the Apocalypse scene in Good Omens. If you've read it you should know what I mean, and if you haven't then you should read the book (by Pratchett and Gaiman)<< I loved that book! I was reading that scene in the car and I was giggling hysterically. My sis(Windshadow) looked at me weird and I had to explain. "I want to be Grevious Bodily Harm!" he he! For school I have to choose a book to do a report on. I want something that is interesting and will impress my teacher. I was going to read WoFury, but I've already read it. Suggestions? I know someone here will have ideas. Probably not fantasy/sci fi because they're hard to explain to a class in an oral report. =( Magic's Price is hard enough... Lady Silvermoon LIG, Leader of the DDMF, Goddess of Sensitivity "Don't speak, I know what you're saying, so please stop explaining, don't tell me 'cause it hurts. Don't speak, I know what you're thinking, and I don't need your reasons, don't tell me 'cause it hurts." _Don't Speak_ No Doubt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 17:26:55 -0500 From: Claris Smith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Offtopicosity/Good Omens/good books? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961010222655.009157c8-+AT+-comp.uark.edu> Oddly enough, this subject line fits exactly what I wanted to talk about. I *like* our offtopicosity. Usually it's related one way or another. And sometimes the Misty conversations get a little detailed for me ;) Well, I saw _Good Omens_ at the library and grabbed it. Maybe it will change my opinion of Gaiman and/or Pratchett... I also got some books I'm excited about (which hasn't happened in a while)--all by Elizabeth Ann Scarborough (S&S alum, I think), who wrote _The Healer's War_ (usually I avoid Vietnam War fantasy, but this book was so good, it made me cry several times)--_The Godmother_, and then _Nothing Sacred_ and _Last Refuge_, both set in the fabled Tibetan land of Shambala. Can't wait!!! obMisty: Errrrrrrrr...You know, it occurred to me during the Storm books that I don't think Misty is a real cat person (Yes, she is an animals-in-general person, but...). The Firecat seemed reallly stereotyped to me, I didn't think he had much more than a cardboard-cat personality. STILL, I did like having him around! If this is garbled, sorry. Got the flu. :*/ PS There have been two more Binky appearances! Jake, I feel your pain... *Claris Smith: Art/History Major, GM, sf/fantasy Artist, Gung Fu Student* * "ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu" "http://comp.uark.edu/~ccsmith/" * *See the Web Site for The Dragon Roars Zine: Now accepting Submissions!* "What is that, Kermit, an elephant handgun?""Gotta protect my disks."KF:tLC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 17:45:40 +0000 From: myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid: Recycled material/MZB/WELCOME TO DENIZ!!! Message-ID: <199610102241.RAA19080-+AT+-cdale3.midwest.net> Raindancer wrote: >>>Aha... and check this one out- small, curly B hair, big B eyes, heart-shaped face, not beautiful but pretty, ran away at 13 from oppressive family life to follow a dream....No, not Talia, this is Rune from L&W. I kept noticing that part too.<<< Ooh! Good one! Can you say "recycled material?" Not that I minded that; the book was still good, and they were sort of different. Talia couldn't be really ruthless until she *learned* to be ruthless. Rune scared the s*** out of those boys in her hometown! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hth wrote: >>>Ah, here's a related question. The Darkover trilogy about the Renunciates -- Shattered Chain, Thendara House, and City of Sorcery. Should I read them? I loved Mists of Avalon, but I loathed the Trillium books, and I was relatively happy with Firebrand, so all in all I don't know where I stand on MZB (except that I wish she'd accept one of my short stories for once). A Darkover fan told me she thought those were among the dullest of the Darkover books, so I'm leery -- though I read an anthology called Free Amazons of Somethingorother, and I liked it. I don't know, what do y'all think about them? Are they worth the effort? <<< I started reading City of Sorcery (since that was one of the two DO books in the library), and it was *so* boring. I had to turn it in before I got 5 pages into the book. But Rediscovery was great, and Free Amazons were fabulous. Have you read Hawkmistress? That's really good. You didn't like the Trillium books? I loved Black Trillium and Golden Trillium, but I *hated* Blood Trillium. Can you say "weak plot"? But that wasn't exactly MZB -- it was one of the collaborators (Julian May, I think), and Andre Norton wrote Golden Trillium. But I must admit -- I liked Darkover so much better than the Trillium series, and I've actually read only 2 Darkover novels and one anthology! And whoever asked this question -- YES! Darkover is fair territory! Actually, a healthy dose of other fantasy book discussion is good as long as you have some sort of ref. to Misty (if you really can't do it, throw in an ObMisty). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Speaking of Darkover, what's the trilogy with "Sharra's Exile" in it? Is it any good? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Deniz Sarikaya wrote: >>>"Captain, there's a Klingon vessel decloak...er, delurking?" "On Screen."<<< "They're hailing us, Captain." This is Capt. Summersong of the Klingon Bird-of-Prey Spiffy. Drop your shields and surrender -- and jump right in! We're really glad you're here... and no, I'm not really Klingon; Dr. Bashir just did a terrific job of doing the makeup. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Okie-dokie... I'm done! Bye peoples, and have a nice day!!! Back to reading _My Antonia_... Summersong, sometimes Spiffy the Hellcat **************Akiko Hirao**************** Akiko "I Trek" Hirao | "Fate protects fools, | little children, and ships no homepage yet... | named Enterprise" -- Will Riker **************Akiko Hirao**************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 16:04:12 -0700 From: To: Subject: Groveborn Companions Message-ID: <199610102259.PAA28694-+AT+-moon.nbn.com> Lightstorm said: >In response to Dawnstar's question bout Groveborn Companions: Groveborns >are different because unlke other Companions, Groveborns have no "real >life" experiene. I would think that this would be a real liability, and not an asset. I had been thinking that being Groveborn was a desirable trait, but it sounds like that might not be the case. If Groveborns have no real life experience, then what is it that sets them apart so that they are so looked up to. Is it possible that they Avatars of the Stareyed, and the other Companions are just Herald spirits. If so, I would think that as Avatars they would have more knowledge than the "ordinary" Companions. >Groveborn Companions always give their Chosen their (the Companions') name. >Some other Companions let their Chosen choose their names. I missed this! In what book is it? I need to go and unpack all my book boxes (Ijust moved) and find all my Misty stuff. It's that or go out and buy them all over again. :) Dawnstar Goddess of Secrecy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 19:10:48 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: Grove-born Companions Message-ID: <199610101911_MC1-AB0-3FC7-+AT+-compuserve.com> Gwena-Elspeth as Special Pairing Well, gwena is a mage channel or something like that, and that's special - even Sayvil/savil doesn't show any signs of having mage powers like in her human form. Re: Yfandes I sure would like to read the stories of Yfandes the human, before she was a Companion! firemist ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 19:27:48 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: good books? Message-ID: <199610101930_MC1-ACE-F1E4-+AT+-compuserve.com> books I've done reports on (and gotten a's for it, too) Mists of Avalon by MZB Clan of the Cave Bear by Jean Auel Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card Grass by Sheri S. Tepper Gate to Women's Country by Sheri S. Tepper they've all got philosophical issues in them that you can emphasize and go into great detail about comparing them with real world, etc, and impress the socks of your teacher :) Ender's Game had one quote in it I've used over and over about when he gets the monitor removed in the beginning and it goes something like " 'we're going to take it out, and it won't hurt a bit.' the nurse said. Ender nodded. It was a lie of course, but sometimes lies were more accurate than the truth." or something v-e-r-y close to that. Realism, etc! and they are all great writer's as well. firemist ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 19:34:45 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: Groveborn Companions Message-ID: <199610101935_MC1-A8F-638A-+AT+-compuserve.com> Actually, IMO I think **Gwena** was the only Grove-Born with no human experience -> my own pet theory is that MO Comapnion's are former Monarchs and Rolan is Roald (how's that for a close enough misty-patented "hit- you-over-the-head-with-blatent-name-similiarity"?) ta-da I feel like someone hit me on the back of the head with a board!!! (sorry, had to squeeze that in somehow) I'm feeling very silly, and I'd better get off of here before I do something to fluffy for words. . . firemist ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 20:08:00 +0000 From: "Heather D. Wegemer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Groveborn Companions Message-ID: <199610110009.UAA06564-+AT+-cwconnect.ca> ironhart-+AT+-nbn.com wrote . . . > I would think that [lack of life experience] would be a real liability, and not an asset. I > had been thinking that being Groveborn was a desirable trait, but it > sounds like that might not be the case. If Groveborns have no real life > experience, then what is it that sets them apart so that they are so > looked up to. Is it possible that they Avatars of the Stareyed, and the > other Companions are just Herald spirits. If so, I would think that as > Avatars they would have more knowledge than the "ordinary" Companions. Perhaps we can see it this way: Grove-born Companions are "new" spirits, who have not been in corporeal form before -- angel-types, if you will. "Regular" companions are hand-picked (by whatever deity actually answered Baron Valdemar's prayers) souls that have experienced life before. Not all dead Heralds become Companions; "Most Heralds have a couple of choices; they can go on to the Havens, or come back, . . ." (Magic's Price, Chapter 19, nineteenth paragraph from the end) Given this, and the number of Companions needed to pair with Heralds, it seems not necessary for all Companions to be dead Heralds; other dead folk with similar virtues and experience could volunteer for such service. (Yes; I know it's an odd idea . . . but think about it.) It seems clear that, in lieu of life experience, the Grove-born Companion would have a closer tie to the deity . . . if only to get the guidance that is needed to deal with the corporeal world properly. This closeness to the deity would garner respect. As to why the Grove-born (like Gwena) make so many mistakes, one might hypothesize that, as Heralds with Companions, the Grove-born must ask for help . . .. Perhaps the Grove-born are the priests/shamans of Companion-kind. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 17:16:04 -0700 From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: MZB book order Message-ID: <199610110016.RAA16131-+AT+-latimes.com> At 10:49 PM 10/10/96 +0100, Michelle Nicole Reis wrote: >In response to Dawnstar's question bout Groveborn Companions: Groveborns >are different because unlke other Companions, Groveborns have no "real >life" experiene. All of the others had lived human lives before, so they >could help their Chosen if needed. Groveborn don't have that experience >to draw on (refer to Winds of Fury?? where Vanyel is commenting on it. >If anyone else can help me here, feel free. That doesn't make sense. I think that's just Gwena's youth that's being commented on. A Monarch's Own's Companion always has to be Grove-born, and who would want it to be a requirement that a completely naive Companion must be the Bond Partner of the Monarch's top advisor? Danya ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 18:52:31 -0700 From: To: Subject: good books for reports Message-ID: <199610110147.SAA05643-+AT+-moon.nbn.com> >Mists of Avalon by MZB >Clan of the Cave Bear by Jean Auel >Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card >Grass by Sheri S. Tepper >Gate to Women's Country by Sheri S. Tepper I would like to add: The Handmaid's Tale (sorry, can't remember the author) The Psalms of Herod by Esther M. Friesner These two also have fairly deep philosophical issues, and should be easy to write about. Dawnstar Goddess of Secrecy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 22:02:15 -0400 (EDT) From: undine To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: MZB/Firerose in pb/SB spoiler Message-ID: The Goth of Tyulips commented about MZB's City of Sordery (< Uhmmm. Not as good as the first two (IMHO, natch) but not bad. Two > problems, we go off on this big search but never get there (bookus > interruptus again) and the political message is a bit heavy-handed > at times. (I agree with the message but I prefer propaganda to be > subtle and not distract/detract from the story.) You're right. Shattered Chains and even Thendara House were both "Message" books too and yet the stories were interesting enough that you could ignore the moral of the story if you so chose. I was rather annoyed that there was a big buildup about the city and then *poof* nothing. Another irritating ending. (Did your wife recover OK from having her surgery? When I had my gall bladder removed, my entire abdomen bruised a putrid shade of green for weeks. Gack!) Heather, you might start with a stand alone like Hawkmistress or Stormqueen to get a taste of Darkover. MZB creates strong believeable gay/lesbian/bi characters. Firemist, Exile's Song is good but I had to reread Bloody Sun of Darkover, bits of Forbidden Tower, Heritage of Hastur and Sharra's Exile to keep the characters and their relationships to each other straight in my head.:) *********************************** Misty PB alert! Firerose just arrived today in my store in paperback. So those of you in the US should see it soon on bookstores' shelves near you. A nifty kids' book came in today. Called _Discovery of Dragons_ by Graeme Base (wrote/illustrated The Eleventh Hour and Animalia) and it is gorgeous." The notably indistinguished Victorian scientist Rowland W. Greasebeam...has collected rare historical documents that prove the discovery of dragons..." The illustration of the Great Snow Dragon is particularly lovely. Sigh. :) ***************************************** In response to my comment about Ma'ar having more power than Falconsbane, the Goth of Typpseeniss commented: > OTOH, Falconsbane didn't have as much of most things (power, sanity, > morals, brains) as he had when he was Ma'ar so I humbly suggest that > this may not be the best support for your point. 8-)# He did have more > hair though. Well but Falconsbane also commented that Urtho wouldn't have as much power to access either. Don't make me get out of my pool and go get WoC to sight textevd. *grin* SB Spoiler lite: Since we've been trying to label spoilers so as not to ruin the fun (?) for those who haven't read SB yet, I found the following rather amusing: "Many familiar characters from Lackey's previous books are here, as well as some impressive new ones, including a gryphon delegation from Iftel." --Publishers Weekly Oct. 7, 1996 Nothing like giving away one of the Big Revelations in your review ;) End SB spoiler Undine "Fantasy is a journey. It can be dangerous, and it will change you." Ursula Le Guin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 22:08:57 -0400 From: Kintara-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Response to Adrienne/delurking/Monty/Misty and Piers Message-ID: <961010220856_123875548-+AT+-emout07.mail.aol.com> Wow, hello Adrianne, I'm Adrienne, and it got me really confused because I've been lurking when I say this title go up on my mail list, it's good to meet you. ------------------------ Has anybody read the Mercedes Lackey book with Piers Anthony "Can I Pay Thee Not in Gold." Was it good enough to buy? ------------------------ Ahhhh yes and we, at school, have been talking about Monty Python and The Holy Grail. Any of you seen that? I have a habit of quoting it over and over again, but I'm missing that name of that city made of just sounds. Anybody now? That's all I really have to say right now, let's hope I can stay delurked ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 23:14:05 EDT From: Cecelia Marsh To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: good books? Message-ID: <199610110314.XAA02062-+AT+-hobbes.kzoo.edu> I've not read them (and I know I should, cause my mother keeps telling me to) but I would say that based on what I've heard about them, the Sherri Tepper books would be the best choice. It would depend on the class really though. I got away with reading both the Peaceable Kingdom(about the Philly Zoo) and The Magic Cup(a King Arthur/Holy Grail story) in a World Cultures class by saying that he never said which world. He changed the instructions the next year. If you want to impress you could try something like Silent Spring (if everybody read this book the world would change) Love and kisses, Celia ---------------------------------------------------------------------- We'll always love you but that's not the point ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cecelia Ann Marsh |"You've been reading | Box 444 Hicks Center |too much meaning from | Kalamazoo MI 49006 |existence" | E-mail: k95cm02-+AT+-kzoo.edu | | http://www.kzoo.edu/~k95cm02/ | -James _Lullaby_ | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 21:27:25 -0700 From: davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: oops/OBMisty Message-ID: Oh the shame! my first post in weeks and I forgot to change the subject from Re: Mercedes-Lackey Digest... Sorry. We seem to be having one of our periodic newbies-coming-out-the-bushes phases! Well come all, be sure to check your mail at least once or twice a week^H^H^H^H uh Day, that is. 8-)# Moving to fantasy worlds-doubt I could talk my wife into it, maybe Darkover. If it were just me though I'm afraid I'd probably go to Middle Earth, Valinor in the Time of the Trees or Fangorn(I'd find an old friend there I expect.(If any one figures out a way to pull this one off she'd be there like a shot)) or Gondolin before it's fall or Kahzad'Dum or... OBMisty: Gosh I just had one, really, I did too! Ok try this on for size, If magic follows logical rules and is not intuitive does this imply that the Collegium will soon be offering Magery 101, 102 & 103 which will be fondly known as "cookbook conjuring?" David Tiffany, God of Trilobes Rebel, n. A proponent of a new misrule who has failed to establish it. -Ambrose Bierce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 00:34:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat the Cat in Green To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list Subject: B-day/Mine Godhead/Off-topicness/IIPTNIG/Python Message-ID: > From: Lynne Markova > Lady Sophia sings "Happy Birthday" to the person who just attained his or > her second decade! That would be me. I do like he's but I am no she. (okay, so it was bad. It's 12:30 am.) Thank you Lady Sofia. ========================================================================== > From: Soljan-+AT+-aol.com > **************************************************** > Happy Birthday Mat! > **************************************************** Thank you Silvermoon! :) =========================================================================== > From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA > well. I'm trying to procrastinate all the way 'till two. > And procrastination. > Okay, I can't get much deeper at 02:30, no matter how hard I'm trying to > procrastinate. Ah, mine Godhead hath blessed you, my child. Thou art a worthy worshiper. ========================================================================== > From: Melanie Dymond Harper > > I don't mind the occasional off-topic or only-tangentially-connected post, > especially when the list's fairly quiet, as it is at the moment. The likelihood > of me asking people to take off-topic stuff off-list increases at least > linearly with the amount of list traffic -- if we're running at more than two > digests a day, and you're posting a lot of fluff, expect to be asked to take > it elsewhere. *cough* mage-duels *cough* > On the other hand, as per my occasionally-posted Rules of Thumb, there are > some things which should never be posted at all -- chain letters and the like. Sigh. The Rawn mailing list was just treated to an incursion of the Good Times "virus". You know, it *is* kind of a virus. It's insidious, and it WON'T GO AWAY! ============================================================================= > From: Kintara-+AT+-aol.com > Has anybody read the Mercedes Lackey book with Piers Anthony "Can I Pay Thee > Not in Gold." Was it good enough to buy? Don't bother. I read it, and wasn't all that impressed. It was okay, but I think that I enjoyed SG more. > Ahhhh yes and we, at school, have been talking about Monty Python and The > Holy Grail. Any of you seen that? I have a habit of quoting it over and > over again, but I'm missing that name of that city made of just sounds. > Anybody now? Run Away!!!!! Python Alert! Homing coconuts armed. (In case you didn't know Kintara, the original Mage-war list was called the White-Coconut List -- sort of if Arthur was a Herald. ) Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"I looked across the battlefield, blood Adept, and God of Procrastination| seeping from my wounds. My comrades, mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | they did never yield. For courage http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| knows no bounds." - Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 23:53:12 CST From: "Katherine M. Brielmaier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: A plea Message-ID: <94951.brie0030-+AT+-gold.tc.umn.edu> OK all of you people with photographic memories (at least where books are concerned), I need some help. I'm planning to do a term paper on "The Bonny Swans" (or "The Two Sisters" or "The Two Swans" etc.). It's an Irish traditional song with a whole lotta different versions. (It's for my folklore class, BTW.) In this song, two sisters are in love with the same man, and as the sisters are walking by the river, "the eldest pushed the youngest" in the river, and she drowned. Then the dead girl is washed ashore, and is found by a miller/minstrel/bard (take your pick of lyric-versions), who makes a harp-frame from her bones and uses her hair for the strings. Then the miller/minstrel/bard just *happens* to go to the dead girl's manor, where the harp starts playing by itself and brings the eldest daughter's terrible crime to light. Now, I could *swear* Misty mentions this damn song somewhere in one of her books. The character speaking about the song makes fun of it, even. But WHERE? (In tones of great frustration) Me-+AT+-school, books-+AT+-home. And if it's not in an ML book, does anyone remember coming across it anywhere else? (I'm sure you have, as it's pretty well-known). Any and all help would be much appreciated! I'll bake you all chocolate-chip cookies! 's e do bheatha, Kaatje ********************************************************* Silence is the Door between Love and Fear; and on Fear's side, there is no latch. --D. Duane ********************************************************* ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 869 *********************************