MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 890

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Les Miz/LHM vs HOV/HA
	by ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg (Lady Windsong)
  2) Re: Les Miz/LHM vs HOV/HA
	by Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
  3) TMBG/yappypoodle/Van, Stef, and Hth.
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
  4) Re: Recycling
	by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge)
  5) Sorry   that makes me sound like one of those people who apologize
	by dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
  6) Re: Classes/MZB/Myst (not Misty)/topping 
	by erikaplajer-+AT+-juno.com (Erika Plajer)
  7) Re: Sorry that makes me sound like one of those people who apologize
	by Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
  8) HA for Goddess!/Apologies/FAQ/"kewl"/Myst/What to read next
	by Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
  9) misty friends/Talia and Alberich
	by Disney <JES001-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
 10) Re: Talia and Alberich
	by Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
 11) Braid: Yet more Van/Loreena vs. HA/The "One True" Heather/off-topic post/"kewl"
	by Ken Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
 12) Belly up to the Bard
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
 13) Brvaes Braidsson Searching For A New Plot Element
	by Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
 14) Talia
	by "JAIME HATHAWAY" <JSJAHATH-+AT+-future.judson.edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 14:34:52 +0800
From: ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg (Lady Windsong)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Les Miz/LHM vs HOV/HA
Message-ID: <199610200634.OAA06119-+AT+-sunflower.singnet.com.sg>

Raindancer said:
>BTW, do Marius& Cosette
>occasionally get to anyone else?  Perhaps it's just that Eponine's my
>favorite, but sometimes I feel like wringing their necks.

Hail, hail!  I prefer Eponine anyday!  Cosette seems so perfect she gets on
my nerves. Sorry to Cosette fans, this is just my opinion, no offence meant!
<g>  I love the musical, esp the song _On my own_.  I'll stop here before
someone blips me on the head for being off topic.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm, I have to say that I liked LHM much more than the Arrows trilogy.  I
liked Van.  I agree with Heather, he wasn't whiney to other people, and he
*was* thinking about others when he decided not to get involved with anyone,
you know! <g>  And oddly, this is what I think convinces me: I cried for
Vanyel.  I didn't shed a tear in Arrows, not even when Kris died.  And
that's the way it is! :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahh, it's so good to be back!  I missed y'all, during the exams, when I
could find the time to miss *anything*! <g>  So glad they're over and done
with. <g>  Now to wait for the results.  Sorry I'm so off topic today, I'm
just so glad to be back here again! <apologetic grin>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
One more for Heather Alexander here!  I love her!  Come on, Lady Thess, I
second Kory's nomination(let's take it he *did* mean it as a nomination,
'kay?) to make her a Goddess?  I loved _Stolen Child_.  Anyone got the
lyrics?  I can't seem to find the poem, would some kind soul please send it
to me? Thanks! <g>

 Wind to Thy Wings,
 
 Lady Windsong        & 'I meant,'said Ipslore bitterly,'what is there in
 Lady in Green        & this world that makes living worthwhile?'
 Lyrra                & Death thought about it. CATS, he said eventually, 
 Kelei (bonded wolf)  & CATS ARE NICE.
 ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg &      -- Terry Pratchett, _Sourcery_ 


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 03:02:08 -0400
From: Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Les Miz/LHM vs HOV/HA
Message-ID: <9610200707.AA01720-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net>

>Hail, hail!  I prefer Eponine anyday!  Cosette seems so perfect she gets on
>my nerves. Sorry to Cosette fans, this is just my opinion, no offence meant!
><g>  I love the musical, esp the song _On my own_.  I'll stop here before
>someone blips me on the head for being off topic.

Well, it's true..Cossette is sooooooo wimpy...but it's prolly a result of 
her years in the convent. Replaced the hell of the Thenardiers with the 
hell of the convent..sigh..

>Hmm, I have to say that I liked LHM much more than the Arrows trilogy.  I
>liked Van.  I agree with Heather, he wasn't whiney to other people, and he
>*was* thinking about others when he decided not to get involved with anyone,
>you know! <g>  And oddly, this is what I think convinces me: I cried for
>Vanyel.  I didn't shed a tear in Arrows, not even when Kris died.  And
>that's the way it is! :)

Hmm. I didn't shed a tear in either, on first read. But I did for both on 
rereads.

>I loved _Stolen Child_.  Anyone got the
>lyrics?  I can't seem to find the poem, would some kind soul please send it
>to me? Thanks! <g>

Well, I have a url here somewhere...<scrunges around computer> 
http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~rlehmann/poem.html     there we go. Have 
fun. It's a kewl poem. 

------------------------------

Date:        Sun, 20 Oct 1996 07:18:52 CST
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: TMBG/yappypoodle/Van, Stef, and Hth.
Message-ID:  <20OCT96.07899783.0012.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

I was quite puzzled to hear someone asking me about TMBG -- which, we
all know by now, stands for They Might Be Giants.  After all, I haven't
been a They fan since the eighth grade, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't
have mentioned them on the list.  Then I thought, "Aha!  They're just
*assuming* that I know *everything* now." Which, of course, has been my
ultimate goal all along.  Tomorrow I conquor the world.

The yappy poodle thing in reference to Tashir on the cover of MPromise
made me think of the fop who gets offed in Interview With the Vampire --
the movie.  The sad little creature who danced attendance on the poodle
lady and killed her husband.  He DID look kind of like that picture,
didn't he?  That's all that needs to be said, IMO.

I don't know, I can't help adoring Vanyel.  Mind you, Stef was one of my
favorite characters, too.  He just got stuck with the difficult job of
being with Vanyel at the worst possible time.  Vanyel made some
mistakes, but I like that in a person.  I think it might be harder to
live with someone who didn't -- the stone saint come to life.
   I identify with Stef.  He's very much like me in some ways -- a
little jaded and a little self-absorbed, but with a tremendous capacity
to connect with people and to nurture.  I could *see* myself doing
pretty much everything Stef did, from going about calf-eyed and too
scared to walk up to someone I admire, to locking myself in her room
half-dressed and practically throwing myself on my knees to get her to
at least confront the relationship, to following her halfway around the
world, to trying to heal a broken spirit with nothing but grim
determination and love.  That was me, all through that book.  Part of
why I found it so moving, no doubt.
   For whatever reason, though, I didn't take any of Vanyel's actions as
cruel to Stef.  By nature I'm conciliatory; I just want people to get
along.  So my reaction to problems in any relationship is never: "I
won't put up with this." It's, "Neither of us is happy -- we *have* to
work this through." So, yeah, I would have waited with someone like
Vanyel until the world gave us half a chance to sort ourselves out.  I
think that's why Stef insisted on following Van.  I think he felt like
if they let Real Life interfere any longer, they would *never* find the
time and strength to take care of themselves, and that was priority for
Stef.  I always knew that Vanyel wanted the same thing; he was just
afraid to stop being everyone else's Vanyel, afraid that the world
couldn't go on without him, or worse yet, maybe it could, and then who
would he be?  Stefen was there to support him through his fear, because
Van needed help.
   I don't *mind* Vanyel needing help, because I *like* being around to
provide it for someone.  I'm, by and large, rock-steady emotionally, and
I enjoy being strong, being patient, being generous, being generally
good for someone other than myself.  I'm no Herald -- I'm a
kestra'chern.  The quintessential lovernotfighter <g> It would *never,
ever, ever* enter my mind to tell someone in pain when to get over it or
how to feel about a loss -- not to say that such behavior is wrong.
Just hard as hell for me to understand, since it goes completely against
my programming.
   BTW, *please* don't think I'm some kind of codependant, or just a
pathetic doormat who can take any amount of abuse and keep simpering,
"But she LOVES me...." Relationships with me, romantic or platonic, are
always total, and always exhausting.  I just won't put that kind of
energy into a relationship if I'm not really sure that the party of the
second part is willing to work, too.  That would be stupid.  And I don't
have a *total* Messiah complex.  I like to be taken care of, too.  In
fact, it's kind of a necessity for me.  My she'enedra once said, "You
need to find a really special woman, because you just can't survive in
the wild." Which is sad but true; I'm a daydreamer, and forgetful, and I
wouldn't last three days if I didn't have friends and family watching my
back.  Hell, I'd get lost in my own kitchen and end up fighting my
hamster for food.  I think I could take the hamster, though.
   Anyway, to Vanyel again (my hamster's name is Vkandis, though; does
that make the above on-topic?) He just raises all my compassion
instincts, and my deep desire to tend the wounded.  Which is what Stef
does for him.  And what Stef gets in return is a tremendous amount of
love; I think even at the low points in their relationship, it's still
pretty clear that Life Sucks, But Vanyel Loves Stefen.  Which is what I
ask in return.  So...in some skewed way, Van and Stef have pretty much
the ideal relationship for me.  Except for, you know, that pesky death
thing.  I'd scratch that.
   Wow, all of this and I haven't really said anything that adds to
anyone's understanding of the series.  It was kind of all about me,
wasn't it?  I hope this doesn't count as off-topic or anything.  I just
didn't know how to follow up on the idea of how people react to/perceive
Vanyel's character, except by explaining what I see when I read LHM.
(The obvious solution -- that I shouldn't have followed up on this idea
at all -- is cheerfully discounted.) I see myself (in all my earthy,
stubborn, loyal, sensual, cynical, occasionally-creative glory) falling
in love with someone who is gentle and private and beautiful and
principled and thoughtful and dammit, *not* old-- (sorry. slipped out.)
And because reality is kind of a fuzzy concept for me, I react when
someone speaks poorly of Vanyel the way I would if someone spoke that
way about someone I loved -- i.e. a leetle defensive.
   That's it, guys.  End of your guided tour through the darker recesses
of Heather's psyche.  Move along, now, move along.  Nothing to see here.
Just a hedge.


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu
Life is like haggis: if you hae no tried it, you shouldna knock it.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 09:49:15 -0400
From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Recycling
Message-ID: <9610201349.AA17655-+AT+-water.waterw.com>

Jacquelle asked:
>Does this mean that Elspeth won't die with Gwena, or vice versa, 
>since Gwena is Grove-born?

Who knows... but if you go by the rules of the MOC, GB's don't ever die [of
old age, etc], although they can be killed  (<-- paraphrased from the
Orientation scene)  If they don't both go together, perhaps we'll have
Elspeth die (yay! -- ok, so I *still* don't like Elspeth) and Gwena will
still be around?


Jeanne Hedge


http://www.accsyst.com/jhedge/

                                 *   *   *

TWICE, adv.  Once too often.

                -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 10:16:07 -0500
From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Sorry   that makes me sound like one of those people who apologize
Message-ID: <199610201426.KAA12908-+AT+-sirocco.CC.McGill.CA>

Mat the Wise Cat in Green said:
>>> From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
> Subject: Vanyel and Bardic
[moans and wimpers resound from the huddled, shaking figure that is Mat]
Nottttt, th-th-the Van-as-Bard discussion again...  The
"Is-Talia-daydreaming" thread was bad enough.....  *Wimper*
[Note, TINAF, and I'm not attempting to stop the thread.  Just making
a note that it's been done before.  A lot.  The last time we did
this made me cringe to see the words "Vanyel" and "Bardic Gift" in
the same sentence.  Methinks I'm skipping the topic this time]<<

Hmm.  It looks like apologies are in order.  Being a newbie, I didn't realize 
that the topic had already been raised, killed, and exhumed so many subsequent 
times prior to my arrival.  I can hear it now, <muttered>"Obnoxious 
self-centered newbie. Doesn't care one damn thing about what anyone else 
thinks or if it bothers them, just posts away, pleased as punch."<slowly 
fading out>  I didn't realize what a monster I had created(or did *it* cause 
*me* to write it, as it had already been created?  Hah!  I have an excuse!)
Seriously, do you all think we should get something about it onto Auntie Mel's 
FAQ?  Or, do you think we have the strength to continue watching newbies froth 
at the mouth over the topic?

Cennydd wrote:
>>But of course, ma chere.  However, I will have to do so in private, since
I am sure that there are others on this list who are less than interested
in the morpholexical issues involved in Middle English pronominal
reference.  And just to show you that all is forgiven, I will even throw
in a brief account of the how Lara Mulvey's Lacan-based theory of
subjectivity can be adapted to re-interepret my reaction to Vanyel as a
textually triggered kind of cognitive dissonance.<<

I wanna know, too!  Include me in your audience, pleeeeeeaaaaase?!?!?!?

Is nobody interested at all in what I had to say about the Red Cross?????  You 
guys can't be *that* apathetic.  If I don't get replies soon, I might write it 
up *again*. <snicker>  That should get your attention.

Chenchen, what does KEWL stand for?  It's not on your list.

ObMisty: uh-oh.  uhmmmm, hmm.  Well, the last time I pulled the credit option, 
look what my eventual question started.
What kind of music do you think Misty listens to while she's working?
Is that a safe question?  I think so.


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 11:11:32 EDT
From: erikaplajer-+AT+-juno.com (Erika Plajer)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Classes/MZB/Myst (not Misty)/topping 
Message-ID: <19961020.101031.8279.0.ErikaPlajer-+AT+-juno.com>


On Sun, 20 Oct 1996 06:28:29 +0100 (BST) Mat the Cat in Green writes:

>Speaking of the bookstore, has anyone ever played the game Myst? 
>(it'll
>make sense in a second)  If so, did anyone read the book based on
>the game (by the game-creators), _Myst: The Book of Atrus_?  Now,

  YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES. I've got the game, I've got the book. I've
even got a mousepad with a picture of an Age of Myst on it! I LOVED the
game, and was very much eager to get the book. I have the paperback, and
soon will order the hardback to it. Yea, it's a waste of money to some,
but the hardback looks a lot better than the paperback. I just got the
paperback in case I couldn't get the hardback. :>  The game captured me
that much. It is probably the only computer game I'd go out and buy a
mousepad to. I much prefer  solving a puzzle to a puzzle to a mystery
over killing everything in sight and getting killed every five minutes. 

>If anyone liked it, there's another prequel out.  It's about Anna, 
>Atrus'
>grandmother.  Only her real name is Ti'ana. The book is called,
>(obviously) _Myst: The Book of Ti'ana_.  I've gotta get it once my
>to-be-read list gets a bit shorter.

   Ah! That should be interesting. Looks like I have another book to
get.. ack! Oh well. 

>You know, without Arrows, the end of BTS is going to be lost on you.
>Esp. since the main characters of Arrows show up, and the villain
>at the end is the same as in AFall.

  I did think the end to, er, BTS came a bit quick. I was more or less
sitting there and thinking, a book with this many pages and THAT was all
the ending was? I did like it though. Allright, which books should I get
next?


Erika Plajer,
Known mostly as Ahri,
Who has no idea what to read next.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 09:23:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sorry that makes me sound like one of those people who apologize
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.961020091701.24578B-100000-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>

On Sun, 20 Oct 1996 dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA wrote:

> Hmm.  It looks like apologies are in order.  Being a newbie, I didn't realize 
> that the topic had already been raised, killed, and exhumed so many subsequent 
> times prior to my arrival.  
> Seriously, do you all think we should get something about it onto Auntie Mel's 
> FAQ?  Or, do you think we have the strength to continue watching newbies froth 
> at the mouth over the topic?

	Well, you don't need to apologize that much. There are always new 
people coming into the list, and they haven't had the discussions, it 
would be unfair to them to say, No you can't talk about this, we already 
did. Those of us who have already seen the conversations will just skip 
the thread. If we didn't talk about anything that has ever been talked 
about before, then there would be absolutely nothing to talk about (wow, 
that didn't make to much sense did it? Sorry) For all you newbies, talk 
about whatever you want. This list is for everyone, and the new people 
want to have the same conversations everyone else here has had. And in a 
couple of months, there will be a whole bunch of more new people, and 
they will probably talk about the same things. It's just what happens 
with the list. Don't feel bad about it. You won't ever be prohibited from 
talking about something Misty related on the list (at least, not that I 
can think of) no matter how many times other people have had the 
discussion. 

Lady Becky(LIG), Goddess of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereals
Founder of the AftPoSWT (confused? Just ask.)
Mailing List Homepage http://www.psnw.com/~deb/becky/misty.html
beckyanne-+AT+-iforge.com


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:17:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: HA for Goddess!/Apologies/FAQ/"kewl"/Myst/What to read next
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.961020130117.4294E-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

> From: Lady Windsong <ywlau-+AT+-singnet.com.sg>

> One more for Heather Alexander here!  I love her!  Come on, Lady Thess, I
> second Kory's nomination(let's take it he *did* mean it as a nomination,
> 'kay?) to make her a Goddess?  

Thirded for Heather Alexander, Goddess of the Golden Voice, She who 
can make calculus or the phone book sound interesting.  :)


=============================================================================
> From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA

> Hmm.  It looks like apologies are in order.  Being a newbie, I didn't realize 
> that the topic had already been raised, killed, and exhumed so many 
> subsequent  times prior to my arrival.  I can hear it now,
> <muttered>"Obnoxious self-centered newbie. Doesn't care one damn thing
> about what anyone else thinks or if it bothers them, just posts away,
> pleased as punch."<slowly fading out>  I didn't realize what a monster
> I had created(or did *it* cause *me* to write it, as it had already
> been created?  Hah!  I have an excuse!) 

Nonononono, that's not how I meant it.  It was just my quirky (and
obviously inneffective) way of saying, "Yes, we've done it before, 
and I'm staying out of it this time."  And that it was likely
that others might too.  You don't need to apologize for it.

> Seriously, do you all think we should get something about it onto Auntie
> Mel's FAQ?  Or, do you think we have the strength to continue watching
> newbies froth at the mouth over the topic?

Jake, whatever happened to the FAQ you were writing?    Boy, you've
got it in your sig and all, and we haven't even seen it. <g>

> Chenchen, what does KEWL stand for?  It's not on your list.

*laugh*  "kewl" is not an acronym.  It's an annoying newbie-ism.  Some
people come online, and try to be all elite by saying "kewl" instead
of "cool", or "2b" instead of "to be".

============================================================================
> From: Erika Plajer <erikaplajer-+AT+-juno.com>

>   YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES. I've got the game, I've got the book. I've
> even got a mousepad with a picture of an Age of Myst on it! I LOVED the
> game, and was very much eager to get the book. I have the paperback, and
> soon will order the hardback to it. Yea, it's a waste of money to some,
> but the hardback looks a lot better than the paperback. I just got the
> paperback in case I couldn't get the hardback. :>  The game captured me
> that much. It is probably the only computer game I'd go out and buy a
> mousepad to. I much prefer  solving a puzzle to a puzzle to a mystery
> over killing everything in sight and getting killed every five minutes. 

Yes, in this case, the hardcover is cooler than the pb.  It's got a 
groovy cover, and there's nice mulit-color text and maps.  IIRC, 
when I looked at the pb, that stuff was missing (the colors at least).

And yes, I infinitely prefer Myst to Doom-type games.  Ick.  Even though
I *did* cheat a bit much with Myst (ah, 'net game walk-throughs.  How
tempting when you have no idea which way to go in an annoying
mine-car)


ObMisty alert!

> >You know, without Arrows, the end of BTS is going to be lost on you.
> >Esp. since the main characters of Arrows show up, and the villain
> >at the end is the same as in AFall.
> 
>   I did think the end to, er, BTS came a bit quick. I was more or less
> sitting there and thinking, a book with this many pages and THAT was all
> the ending was? I did like it though. Allright, which books should I get
> next?

Well, since you just finsished BTS, go for Arrows.  Remember the 
Queen's Own who comes to get help from Faram.  And Kero wonders 
about te QO's POW-type reaction to Ancar?  Well, it's all in
the Heralds of Valdemar Trilogy (aka Arrows) -- _Arrows of the Queen_,
_Arrow's Flight_, and _Arrow's Fall_.


============================================================================
> From: Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>

much snipped.

> Don't feel bad about it. You won't ever be prohibited from 
> talking about something Misty related on the list (at least, not that I 
> can think of) no matter how many times other people have had the 
> discussion. 

[nods head vigorously]

Yup, exactly.  What she said. :)


Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,   |"Each man builds his own garden, by what
Adept, and God of Procrastination| his heart says is true. And I thank
Heathen #???                     | the stars, that watch over me,
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu       | because ours, is a garden for two."
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/|               - Heather Alexander
	          


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:16:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: Disney <JES001-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: misty friends/Talia and Alberich
Message-ID: <01IAV8BJ7AS200D5KU-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>


Someone (danged if I remember who, my Duterm sucks and does wierd things with
my mail like loses it) was mentioning something about people who have become good friends because of of Misty or the list.  Well, I am most definitly one of 
those people...I got close to my current boyfriend because of the fact that on
a MUD we both play on there was a discussion about Misty..And we met, and had
lots in common (most noticable, the fact that I have read quite a bit Fantasy
and put myself in stories etc..etc...) and the rest is history.  I personally
don't think I could spend my life with someone who couldn't like fantasy a bit..Simply because I like to talk about my suppositions with a person who will know
what the heck I'm talking about.  Are there any others who feel this way or am
I just wierd?
********************************************************************************I just read BTS, and I was kind of disappointed that there wasn't anymore about
Talia's being made Sun-Priest in there.  Is there a book that deals with Talia
more, like her having her baby, and being made a Priest of Vkandis?  I bet that
being Empathic as she is that her pregnancy was interesting.  
I know that there are LHM, AotQ, Winds, Storm, Gryphons, and BTS...but are
there any others that I'm missing out on? 
When I <finally> got to read Storm Warning the other day, I thought it funny
how Florian was talking in Karal's mind.  Is Karal Chosen at that point and
he just doesn't know it because of the fact that he's wary of Companions, or
is Florian just NEEDED so he latches on to Karal?  
What about Alberich?  Why was he called 'traitor' by the Karsites?  I thought
he was being hunted as a witch in Karse because of his foresight?  How does 
that make him a traitor?  They're the ones who drove him out of Karse, right?
Or did I miss something?

Oh, well, math homework calls, and even though I had another question, it is
completely gone from my memory so I bid you all a fond Farewell until next 
time I decide to do more than just sit here :)


"Disneyworld"
worshipper of the Mouse
All HAIL the MOUSE!





------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 15:03:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Talia and Alberich
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.961020145839.12144A-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, Disney wrote:

> Talia's being made Sun-Priest in there.  Is there a book that deals with Talia
> more, like her having her baby, and being made a Priest of Vkandis?  I bet 
> that being Empathic as she is that her pregnancy was interesting.  

Nope, no Talia POV stories other than Arrows.

> I know that there are LHM, AotQ, Winds, Storm, Gryphons, and BTS...but are
> there any others that I'm missing out on? 

TARMA AND KETHRY!!!!! [sorry about that]  Ahem.  You need to read
the Vows and Honor Duology -- _The Oathbound_ and _Oathbreakers_.
They are the exploits of Tarma and Kethry (yes, the two in BTS).
Get them.  Now.  Run.  <g>

> When I <finally> got to read Storm Warning the other day, I thought it funny
> how Florian was talking in Karal's mind.  Is Karal Chosen at that point and
> he just doesn't know it because of the fact that he's wary of Companions, or
> is Florian just NEEDED so he latches on to Karal?  

Nope, it's said several times that Karal is *not* Florian's Chosen.
The Companions just sort of assigned him to Karal as a liason and
cultural guide.

> What about Alberich?  Why was he called 'traitor' by the Karsites?  I thought
> he was being hunted as a witch in Karse because of his foresight?  How does 
> that make him a traitor?  They're the ones who drove him out of Karse, right?
> Or did I miss something?

Umm, because Alberich used his knowledge of the Karsite military against
them.

Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,   |"Each man builds his own garden, by what
Adept, and God of Procrastination| his heart says is true. And I thank
Heathen #???                     | the stars, that watch over me,
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu       | because ours, is a garden for two."
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/|               - Heather Alexander
	          


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 15:35:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
To: Misty Lackey List <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>
Subject: Braid: Yet more Van/Loreena vs. HA/The "One True" Heather/off-topic post/"kewl"
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961020153304.1277A-100000-+AT+-copland.udel.edu>

La Dame Lune D'Argent wrote: 

>>>Whoa,  stop the freight train.  Whiny is complaining to everyone you
see about many or all of your problems,  even if they aren't listening.
That's how I see it anyway.<<<

Well, I don't think that "whiny" is strictly a surface phenomomenon.  I
think whiny is a way of being.  Van whined to himself all the time,
occasionally to Yfandes and Savil (not as much).  And I don't buy the "he
put up a brave front" business.  I don't know about anyone else, but I
come from a family that knows the exact shadings necessary to put a brave
front while letting everyone know how put-upon we feel when we are feeling
petulant and self-indulgent.  I don't think that Van was really fooling
anyone.  BTW, I do agree that he was always gloom and doom on a stick, but
he does seem to be the sort that is not completely fulfilled without a
crisis and a chance to feel sorry for himself....  BTW, I don't want to
say that Van was always a gloom and doom type without a single redeeming
moment.  I just think that he was basically a pessimist.

And before anyone screams about "but he was in a war...etc." let me just
point out that my father was in a couple (2 tours of duty in Vietnam, 1 in
Korea) and despite the horror and ickiness that he saw (and he still has
memories of that time that catch him unawares), he was nevertheless able
to find, even in the face of the worst of it, moments of joy and
contentment.  Nor is he all that unusual.  I know lots of veterans who are
not depressed, taciturn loners.  In fact, most vets aren't.  

Then le Chevalier-Elfique Korendil wrote:

>>>Yeppers. It's REALLY annoying...I HATE it. Especially when you wanna
get books on subjects parents won't..uh..approve of (can we say
Wicca?)....<<<

Everyday, in everyway, I appreciate how cool my parents were when I was
younger.  Of course, they both love to read, so it was never a problem to
get to a bookstore, but I never had to worry that they might demand to see
what I bought, if I didn't choose to share it.

>>>Loreena's ver...btw, i s Loreena's Greensleaves just the song slowed 
down, or is it original music?<<<

What original music?  I am not sure of the provenance of Greensleeves.
The liner notes for "The Visit" say that it is "traditional" with lyrics
by Henry VIII.  I have severe doubts about that.  I know that Greensleeves
was popular then, but I never heard that Henry wrote it.  I get the
impression from the liner notes that this version is the result of a jam
session around the traditional melody.

Then la Dame Chanson de Vent wrote:

>>>One more for Heather Alexander here!  I love her!  Come on, Lady Thess,
I second Kory's nomination(let's take it he *did* mean it as a nomination,
'kay?) to make her a Goddess?  I loved _Stolen Child_.  Anyone got the
lyrics?<<<

Well, since they are no doubt public domain by this time, I will type them
out and send them to you.

OK, BTW, I have decided that I will break down and order a Heather
Alexander CD.  Please send me suggestions for which one to go for
(preferably not with too many Misty songs, since I can't stand her filk).
BTW, recommendations might as well be via private email, since this isn't
a general list topic type thing.

Then ma chere wrote:

>>>For whatever reason, though, I didn't take any of Vanyel's actions as
cruel to Stef.  By nature I'm conciliatory; I just want people to get
along.  So my reaction to problems in any relationship is never: "I
won't put up with this."<<<

This would explain the difference in our reactions.  I am almost never
conciliatory.  I apologize if I hurt someone accidentally or undeservedly,
try to fix my mistakes as well as is feasible, and make an effort to be
pleasant and kind to those I live/deal with.  But that is as far as it
goes. If Van had treated me like he treated Stef, I would have walked.  He
was cruel.  He was callous.  He was condescending and insulting.  I
frequently found myself thinking that lifebonding seemed like a pretty
crappy thing to have happen if it meant that you had to stick around and
put up with the kind of treatment that Stef got.  But then, I am a cat
person, and Stef was definitely a puppy.  Kick a cat and it will scratch
you and then leave.  Kick a puppy and it will blame itself and try to
*make* you love it.

>>>If someone speaks poorly of Vanyel the way I would if someone spoke
that way about someone I loved -- i.e. a leetle defensive.<<<

Well, I understand that.  And I have the same reaction to attacks on other
characters--Ain't nobody betta' say nothin' bad about Lisseut, 'cause that
when Miss Cennydd go off!  Mmmm. I love me some a that Lisseut!--Oops,
I'll stop channelling Miss Bonita now.  Sorry.  =)

>>>Life is like haggis: if you hae no tried it, you shouldna knock it.<<<

Ummm, Heather, by this logic (if applied across the board) I shouldna
knock getting hit by a truck, since I haven't tried it.  On the whole,
however, I choose to avoid it as a *bad* thing.

Then Deniz wrote:

>>>I wanna know, too!  Include me in your audience,
pleeeeeeaaaaase?!?!?!?<<<

But of course, ma chere (I seem to have so many "cheres" *grin*)

>>>Is nobody interested at all in what I had to say about the Red
Cross????? You guys can't be *that* apathetic.  If I don't get replies
soon, I might write it up *again*. <snicker>  That should get your
attention.<<<

OK, I will say this.  I would not recommend reposting it.  You posted it
once and I assume that no-one flamed you.  It isn't on-topic, it is
locally political, but it wasn't long and it was part of an on-topic post,
IIRC, so I know that *I* elected to say nothing (don't know about others).
However, if you repost it, I shall be forced to visit flaming destruction
upon you, yea, verily unto final days of humankind shall thou suffer in
endless burning agony!

In a slightly more normal vein, might I point out that if you didn't get
any responses the first time, you are less likely to get any (positive
ones, at least) by badgering people?  And to be quite honest, I fail to
see what kind of response you expect from the non-Canadians on the list.
We certainly have no influence on the decision-making process of the
Canadian government (and I can't remember whether this was a local or
national question anyway).  This is why the FAQ for the list clearly
states that political messages are verboten on the list.  

Then Mathieu, le chat vert, wrote:

>>>*laugh*  "kewl" is not an acronym.  It's an annoying newbie-ism.  Some
people come online, and try to be all elite by saying "kewl" instead
of "cool", or "2b" instead of "to be".<<<

Oh, Mat!  Don't make me read you!  "kewl" is not a newbie-ism.  It is
irc-speak.  It is intended to be a phonetically more correct spelling of
"cool" as it is used in spoken language.  Other irc-speak neologisms are
"re" (meaning "I'm back" or "Welcome back" depending on context), "OIC"
(meaning "Oh, I see."), "/me" (meaning "I do..." [this actually crops up
in the spoken English of irc'ers]), "r" for "are," and "u" for "you."
BTW, interesting sidelight: English is not the only language that does
this sort of thing.  French irc'ers have their own dialect items such as
"qqc" for "quelque chose" (means "something") and a tendency to use "k"
instead of "qu" leading to "ki" for "qui" and "ke" for "que."  Of course
this has nothing to do with Misty, but I thought y'all might be
interested.  Kewl, isn't it?


May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit,

Cennydd,

Mage of the Green Silences.

Kenneth Allen Hyde     |  No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife
Univ. of Delaware      |  between the shoulder blades will seriously
Dept. of Linguistics   |  cramp his style  -- Old Jhereg proverb
kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu         |  A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me

**http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html**


------------------------------

Date:        Sun, 20 Oct 1996 14:46:17 CST
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Belly up to the Bard
Message-ID:  <20OCT96.15953378.0088.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

Well, at least I didn't put Vanyel's name in the subject line.
   I just wanted to respond because I think there's still some
confusion.  Vanyel HAD THE BARDIC GIFT, after MPawn.  Remember, that's
why he knows when Medren uses it on him?
   When Vanyel reflects on Medren having Bardic, he's comparing Medren
to himself at that age, when Vanyel, too, wanted to be a Bard.  He knows
that his dreams came to nothing because he had no Bardic Gift (remember
Breda saying that if he'd had the gift, the Bards would've snapped him
up and Ashkevrons be damned?), and he knows that Medren won't face the
same disappointment, because he is strongly Bardic gifted.
   When he talks to Jervis, Jervis is afraid that *he* ruined Vanyel's
chances of becoming a Bard, and so Vanyel explained that he was not
rejected from the Bardic Collegium for any physical reason, but because
he wasn't Gifted.  Thusly, not Jervis' doing.
   He *does* have the Gift now, but it doesn't do him any good, because
he's far more important as a Herald-Mage than he could be as a Bard.
That's why he sometimes talks as though he doesn't have the Gift;
because back when he had half a chance to become a Bard, that's exactly
what got in his way, and so for all practical purposes, it was useless
to Vanyel, instead of the dream-come-true it would have been had he had
it as young as Medren.
   See, doesn't that make more sense than Misty just not knowing what
gifts her protagonist has?


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu
Life is like haggis: if you hae no tried it, you shouldna knock it

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 16:05:54 -0400
From: Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
To: "Misty List" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>
Subject: Brvaes Braidsson Searching For A New Plot Element
Message-ID: <9610202010.AA22886-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net>

>I didn't realize what a monster I had created(or did *it* cause 
>*me* to write it, as it had already been created?  Hah!  I have an =
excuse!)

Hmm...so our topics are sentient beings, that feed off both our =
curiosity and our anger and our reluctance to go back into them; =
beings that can control the minds of anyone who sends subscribe to =
the list; beings that have one goal: world domination? =
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH. ok. um..well..hmm..you might be right, actually. =
At least no-one ver asks what the "sheep thing" is about;> 


>Seriously, do you all think we should get something about it onto Auntie 
>Mel's 
>FAQ?  Or, do you think we have the strength to continue watching newbies 
>froth 
>at the mouth over the topic?

I think this was the kinda stuff that Jake was gonna put in his FAQ? =
I think that was the idea...but has Our Bard dropped that idea? 

>Chenchen, what does KEWL stand for?  It's not on your list.

It doesn't. It's just a whacked out hacker-stupid-type-lame way to =
say cool that I've gotten addicted to;> It's ash's fault..oh..he's =
not subbing anymore..gotta get him back on...

>What kind of music do you think Misty listens to while she's working?
>Is that a safe question?  I think so.

Do you have Born to Run? That has a pretty good list of the types of =
music she likes...I remember Rush and Mignight Oil and a lot of other =
things (Including TMBG, o course) she and larry like to listen to. =
And if you don't have that book, get it. Tannim's kewl;>

>Who knows... but if you go by the rules of the MOC, GB's don't ever die =
[of
>old age, etc], although they can be killed  (<-- paraphrased from the
>Orientation scene)  If they don't both go together, perhaps we'll have
>Elspeth die (yay! -- ok, so I *still* don't like Elspeth) and Gwena will
>still be around?

Yet, at the same time, remember: all of the first companions WERE GB. =
Does this mean that all the original companions are around? I doubt =
it..

>ah, 'net game walk-throughs.  How
>tempting when you have no idea which way to go in an annoying
>mine-car)

Ah, the game that could Ages to finish (argh! horrid pun!)....or 5 =
minutes;>

>.Simply because I like to talk about my suppositions with a person who 
>will know
>what the heck I'm talking about.  Are there any others who feel this way 
>or am
>I just wierd?

Quite normal;> Oh, yeah...and to explain my very question, I formed a =
relationship with my gf through the magic of misty and tam lin(the =
ballad. I only recently finished the book...which was one of those =
glowy-type books that doesn't end qith a BOOM of warm feeling, but =
has a sustained amount all the way through (does that make =
sense?)...actually, also the tempest ver of the song, which I presume =
is a cover of the fairport one).

>Is Karal Chosen at that point and
>he just doesn't know it because of the fact that he's wary of Companions, =
or
>is Florian just NEEDED so he latches on to Karal? 

It is NOT, repeat NOT, NOT NOT a choosing. THis is something misty =
has hit us over the head with a 2x4 with <g>...read the rest in the =
tril and let the knowledge enter your mortal shell;>

>just read BTS, and I was kind of disappointed that there wasn't anymore =
about
>Talia's being made Sun-Priest in there.  Is there a book that deals with 
>Talia
>more, like her having her baby, and being made a Priest of Vkandis?

Nopers..not YET. I doubt misty would be able to leave a juicy =
storyline like that alone, though. I bet she just felt no-one would =
be interested in the continuing adventures of a not-so-young and very =
scarred talia...

>What about Alberich?  Why was he called 'traitor' by the Karsites?  I =
thought
>he was being hunted as a witch in Karse because of his foresight?  How =
does 
>that make him a traitor?  They're the ones who drove him out of Karse, =
right?
>Or did I miss something?

read Stolen Silver, in HorseFantastic..and all shall be enlightened.

>Well, I don't think that "whiny" is strictly a surface phenomomenon.  I
>think whiny is a way of being.  Van whined to himself all the time,

YES! That's what I MEANT! Thanks, Ken

>Everyday, in everyway, I appreciate how cool my parents were when I was
>younger.  Of course, they both love to read, so it was never a problem to
>get to a bookstore, but I never had to worry that they might demand to see
>what I bought, if I didn't choose to share it.

O, my parents are kewl about reading, it's just that I dunno..afraid =
they'll look or something, sometime. Crazy, I guess...

>What original music?  I am not sure of the provenance of Greensleeves.
>The liner notes for "The Visit" say that it is "traditional" with lyrics
>by Henry VIII.  I have severe doubts about that.  I know that Greensleeves
>was popular then, but I never heard that Henry wrote it. 

Weird. In school we learned that he wrote the music. But never ever =
trust school, since school is very often wrong. Btw, ken, do you know =
percentages of how much of english is traced to french, and how much =
to latin? We learned that like 60% is traced to latin, and 90% =
DIRECTLY traced to french (i.e., some are traced further back to =
latin). I just doubt how true thee figures are...

>OK, BTW, I have decided that I will break down and order a Heather
>Alexander CD.  Please send me suggestions for which one to go for
>(preferably not with too many Misty songs, since I can't stand her filk).
>BTW, recommendations might as well be via private email, since this isn't
>a general list topic type thing.

EVIL! EVIL! EVIL!!!!!! =
Misty-not-liking-heathen...grrrr...........<fume finally stops rising =
from head, shaking slows noticably, subject reverts to original =
state> o..k....get...Wanderlust....and..this...is...a...list..top...ic.=
..since...heat...her...is...a...god...dess....

>"/me" (meaning "I do..." [this actually crops up
>in the spoken English of irc'ers])

uh huh. yeppers. I definitely do it! 

>Kewl, isn't it?

uh huh. I might even print it out and show my french teacher, not =
that she'll unnerstand.

OH..and if anyone really, really hates this sig, I'll stop. I just =
LIKE it, though...however long it might be (14 lines)...thenardier is =
a guy you just have to love to hate...



K|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High =
Court, 
O|Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan, God of All 
R|Things Nocturnal, Ailurophile, #Macintosh Op, and #Asgard Co-Owner.
E|---------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
N|=B3The duty of the innkeeper,=B2 he said to her one day, =
emphatically, and 
D|in a low voice, =B3is to sell the first comer, food, rest, light, =
fire, 
I|dirty linen, servants, fleas, and smiles; to stop travelers, empty 
L|small purses, and honestly lighten large ones; to receive families =
who 
-+AT+-|are traveling, with respect; fleece the man, pluck the woman, and =
pick 
I|over the child; to charge for the open window, closed window, =
chimney 
C|corner, sofa, chair, stool, bench, featherbed, mattress, and straw 
U|bed; to know how much the reflection wears the mirror down and to =
tax 
B|that; and, by five hundred thousand devils, to make the traveler =
pay 
E|for everything, including the flies his dog eats!=B2
D.NET                                     --Victor Hugo=B9s Les =
Mis=E9rables


------------------------------

Date:          Sun, 20 Oct 1996 15:35:39 CST
From: "JAIME HATHAWAY" <JSJAHATH-+AT+-future.judson.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Talia
Message-ID: <F759554420-+AT+-future.judson.edu>

This might be stretching it a little, but I was just curious about a 
remark Talia makes to Elspeth in WoFury.  Elspeth comes home and 
rushes to give Talia a hug and comments that Talia looks as good as 
ever(or something like that), and Talia remarks that she has a few 
more grey hairs than when Elspeth left.  Now, I suppose in REALLY 
stressful job you get grey hairs, but Talia's only in her twenties, 
if I do my math correctly...she's 13 when she's Chosen, 18 when she 
gets her Whites, almost 20 when Kris dies and she marries Dirk.  
There's a year or two between AFall and WoFate, where IIRC, BTS's 
ending fits in, and then Elspeth is only gone two or so years, so 
Talia would be around 25 at the most by the time Elspeth returns.  I 
guess being MO would be terribly stressful to start turning grey at 
25.  Does it mention Selenay having grey hair?  I can't remember..I 
don't think so, though.
Oh, well, just a stray thought....
WTTW,
Jacquelle





Oh, very clever, Worf.  Eat any good books lately?
--Q

------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 890
*********************************