MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 891 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Brvaes Braidsson Searching For A New Plot Element by Korendil 2) Reply to: Alberich by Rozanna McNeer 3) Re: Talia by Disney 4) Reply to: Grey Hair by Rozanna McNeer 5) The Other Heather/Cats and dogs by "Hth." 6) Re: Talia by Mat the Cat in Green 7) Re: Talia by Korendil 8) Re: Yet more Van by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" 9) Re: Talia by "JAIME HATHAWAY" 10) Ooops! Re: Yet more Van by Ken Hyde 11) Re: Energizer Bunny Braid.... by "Katherine M. Brielmaier" 12) Re: Brvaes ... etc by Rozanna McNeer 13) Topics by Perry Rose 14) Middle School Hell... by kaychang-+AT+-eden.com (CrystalSkye) 15) Re: Talia by Disney 16) Re: Talia by Korendil 17) Re: Talia by Korendil 18) Re: Classes/MZB/Myst (not Misty)/topping by ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au 19) Re: Brvaes Braidsson/ Re: Greensleeves by ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 16:33:47 -0400 From: Korendil To: Subject: Re: Brvaes Braidsson Searching For A New Plot Element Message-ID: <9610202038.AA23364-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> argh! wtf is it that this happens occaisonally? someone tell me what I need to change in my sig, svp obmisty: on velgarth, no-one has sig problems;P ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:59:14 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: Alberich Message-ID: <199610201700_MC1-B21-55B1-+AT+-compuserve.com> reply to Disneyworld who wondered why Alberich was considered the great traitor There is a short story in Horse Fantastic (ed by Martin Greenberg) by Misty called Stolen Silver -> it's the story of when/how/where Alberich gets Chosen. the long and short of it is -> Alberich was a member of the Karsite Army, and doubtless used his experience in the Army and knowledge of their tactics to help defend the border after he was Chosen. All clear now? firemist ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:04:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Disney To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia Message-ID: <01IAVE735A6A00BZ5E-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU> Jacquelle wrote: <> I think that it's just a "mother" thing to say...I know my mom did. Talia also mentioned in the same passage about how the kids were always getting pulled out of trouble by the 'scruff of the neck' and well, that gives ALL mothers grey hair--visible or not. :) And I'm not sure (since I loaned my winds books to a friend) but I think that Elspeth mentioned noticing (was it in the first one or the last one?) about how her mother looked older and more worn..I think they mentioned that she had more grey than before too..but i'm using my *cough* reliable memory for this,so i could be wrong *grin* "Disneyworld" worshipper of the Mouse All HAIL the MOUSE! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 17:10:55 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: Grey Hair Message-ID: <199610201711_MC1-B13-66A4-+AT+-compuserve.com> She could just be teasing Elspeth. I started having grey hairs when I was 3, and I always blame my mom for it although my family just goes grey prematurely. No, my hair isn't red, yes I'm Scottish, and i think that should cover all the common factors relating to early grey hair Firemist (who really should by stock in Miss Clairol) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 17:19:39 CST From: "Hth." To: Subject: The Other Heather/Cats and dogs Message-ID: <20OCT96.18713970.0201.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> Cen, I'd recommend Heather Alexander...Live! over Wanderlust, since I gather you have a soft spot for traditional music. A good half of the live tape is trad, and almost none of Wanderlust (besides the fact that I just didn't like Wanderlust as well, which sheds no light on which you'd prefer.) There are several songs on Live that are old favorites of mine, at least -- Twa Corbies, The Blacksmith (didn't Loreena do a version of that one, too? on the album I don't have?), Bedlam Boys, Heather On the Moor. That sort of thing. And some cool originals. But I've heard great things about Life's Flame, too. Why are people so mean about cats? Every cat I've ever had (okay, so it's a grand total of four, but more if you include the six cats collectively owned by close friends of mine) has been just darling. You always hear about these pissy cats who never come when you call and never seem happy to see you and glare at you when you annoy them. Maybe it comes from being raised in our admittedly extremely affectionate household, but my cats have always been sweet, love to be cuddled, climb all over you and purr, greet us at the door when we come home, and YES, Cindy (my cat) and 'Lana (Barb's) both come when they are called, most of the time. (Though Cindy responds better to kittykittykitty than she does to her actual name.) You know, it's also not exactly true that an abused dog will just lie down and take it, hoping to make you like them. Badly-treated dogs become dangerous, since they interpret everything as a threat. A dog doesn't get its feelings hurt if you kick it off the couch once in a while; dogs forgive. But dogs also *know,* in my experience, when they're not loved and cared for. Much like Stef and I. Being doggy in temperament doesn't make you helpless in the face of genuine abuse. I didn't see all this abusiveness other people seemed to see in LHM. I never once saw cruel. I've read that series probably thirty times, and that was the last word I ever would have chosen to describe Vanyel. Pessimist, yes, probably so. But, to rely on a cliche, it takes all kinds. It seems a trifle unjust to me to say that Vanyel was a bad person because he had a personality that tended toward introversion and depression. Some people are like that. Again, it's how you behave that counts, how you cope with the personality you have. If I'd meant that being run over by a truck was like haggis, I would have said that being run over by a truck was like haggis. If I said that life was like a bowl of cherries, would that automatically mean that everything was like a bowl of cherries? I do not think that everyone should try everything. But I do think people should have some life experience before they decide whether or not the world is a decent place. Hence, the haggis connection. HTH r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 18:40:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat the Cat in Green To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, JAIME HATHAWAY wrote: > This might be stretching it a little, but I was just curious about a > remark Talia makes to Elspeth in WoFury. Elspeth comes home and > rushes to give Talia a hug and comments that Talia looks as good as > ever(or something like that), and Talia remarks that she has a few > more grey hairs than when Elspeth left. Now, I suppose in REALLY > stressful job you get grey hairs, but Talia's only in her twenties, > if I do my math correctly...she's 13 when she's Chosen, 18 when she > gets her Whites, almost 20 when Kris dies and she marries Dirk. > There's a year or two between AFall and WoFate, where IIRC, BTS's > ending fits in, and then Elspeth is only gone two or so years, so > Talia would be around 25 at the most by the time Elspeth returns. I > guess being MO would be terribly stressful to start turning grey at > 25. Does it mention Selenay having grey hair? I can't remember..I > don't think so, though. Kory, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there more like 10 years between AFall and WoFury? IIRC, there's 7 years between the end of BTS and the beginning of WoF (taken from comments of Elspeth's and the forward. No texevd, as Winds is of the few Velgarth books not with me at school). I think that there's a year or three between AFall and BTS, but I could be wrong. Which would make Talia in her thirties or so. Lots of people start going gray around then. But some don't. My mom's 53, and she's just starting to go gray. Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"Each man builds his own garden, by what Adept, and God of Procrastination| his heart says is true. And I thank Heathen #??? | the stars, that watch over me, mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | because ours, is a garden for two." http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| "The Garden" - Heather Alexander "?Hay una discoteca por aqui?" -- _Discoteca_ -- Pet Shop Boys ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 18:52:59 -0400 From: Korendil To: Subject: Re: Talia Message-ID: <9610202257.AA28765-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> >Kory, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there more like 10 years >between AFall and WoFury? IIRC, there's 7 years between the end >of BTS and the beginning of WoF (taken from comments of Elspeth's >and the forward. No texevd, as Winds is of the few Velgarth books >not with me at school). I think that there's a year or three between >AFall and BTS, but I could be wrong. Which would make Talia in her >thirties or so. Hmm..lemme check that post of mine.... ah. = here: 1251- kethry born 1270- kethry 19 1371-talia born 1376- Selenay queened 1377-elspeth born 1378-hunting accident 1384-talia chosen 1384-talia 13 1384-elspeth 7 1391-talia gets whites 1391-talia 20 1391-elspeth 14 1392-talia becomes QO 1392-elspeth 15 1392-Ancar usurps throne 1392-talia 21 1394-Ancar attacks a second time. Rebuffed by the 'bolts 1401-WoFate starts 1401-elspeth 24 1401-talia 30 1401-tarma dead at LATEST 1401-1402- WoChange 1402-Tarma is a leshya'e Kal'enedral So, yes, Talia is 30 at the beginning of WoFate...so she's be 31 or = so at Winds of Fury, which is when the question is about, right? BTW, = peoples..this timeline involves a lot of guesswork and the = reeeeaaaaallly messed up P. Tobin timeline in the books, and is quite = probably not accurate, but is the best thing we've got. Ok..I'm testing my sig in this one...I'll rsend if it comes back all = garbled again.. K|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High = Court, O|Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan, God = of All R|Things Nocturnal, Ailurophile, #Macintosh Op, and = #Asgard Co-Owner. = E|---------------------------------------------------------------------= - N|=B3The duty of the innkeeper,=B2 he said to her one day, = emphatically, and D|in a low voice, =B3is to sell the first comer, = food, rest, light, fire, I|dirty linen, servants, fleas, and = smiles; to stop travelers, empty L|small purses, and honestly = lighten large ones; to receive families who -+AT+-|are traveling, with = respect; fleece the man, pluck the woman, and pick I|over the = child; to charge for the open window, closed window, chimney = C|corner, sofa, chair, stool, bench, featherbed, mattress, and straw = U|bed; to know how much the reflection wears the mirror down and = to tax B|that; and, by five hundred thousand devils, to make the = traveler pay E|for everything, including the flies his dog = eats!=B2 D.NET = --Victor Hugo=B9s Les Mis=E9rables ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:15:42 -0700 From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Yet more Van Message-ID: <199610202315.QAA28441-+AT+-latimes.com> At 08:50 PM 10/20/96 +0100, Ken Hyde wrote: > >I don't know about anyone else, but I >come from a family that knows the exact shadings necessary to put a brave >front while letting everyone know how put-upon we feel when we are feeling >petulant and self-indulgent. I don't think that Van was really fooling >anyone. Whom did Van ever spend enough time with to play these sort of psychological games and have them understand? He was a loner at home, except for Lissa. 'Lendle died within, what?, a few months after they met, and no one else saw much of Van during that time. Savil doesn't seem to have spent a great deal of time with him outside of training. As a Herald, Van was away, usually alone except for Yfandes, defending a Border or something. At court, it seems like he can catch five or ten minutes here or there to say hello to his daughter or one of his friends, and other than that he's buried in work and protocol. Stef was really the only one Van had anything resembling extensive personal contact with. And when Stef was courting him, they spent their time talking, laughing, playing games together, drinking--I don't recall Van looking for sympathy from the young man or anything like that. >BTW, I do agree that he was always gloom and doom on a stick, but >he does seem to be the sort that is not completely fulfilled without a >crisis and a chance to feel sorry for himself.... I don't agree at all. Van is fully alive and fulfilled when he's in love. When he's not, he has a big, gaping hole in his life--and crises only make that hole seem bigger. >BTW, I don't want to >say that Van was always a gloom and doom type without a single redeeming >moment. I just think that he was basically a pessimist. Again, I disagree. Van repeatedly did things like approach that female Herald in the inn, hoping that this time things would be different, that this time people would treat him as a normal person instead of as "Vanyel Demonsbane." He's disappointed so many times that way that it's very hard for him to believe that Stef is really seeing him as just plain Vanyel. If he were a pessimist he would keep trying and he wouldn't be surprised and disappointed every time his attempts to make contact with his fellow humans end up in disaster. No, I think the tragedy of Van is that he is an optimistic romantic, always hoping for the best and always having the worst shoved in his face. > >And before anyone screams about "but he was in a war...etc." let me just >point out that my father was in a couple (2 tours of duty in Vietnam, 1 in >Korea) and despite the horror and ickiness that he saw (and he still has >memories of that time that catch him unawares), he was nevertheless able >to find, even in the face of the worst of it, moments of joy and >contentment. Nor is he all that unusual. I know lots of veterans who are >not depressed, taciturn loners. In fact, most vets aren't. But Van finds happiness in the middle of the horror, too. He has that affair with Jonne. He's always joking with Yfandes. He's obviously had several good times with the Taleydras. He enjoys spending time with Jisa. And he's making love with Stef and being "truly happy" only hours before riding off to face Learth. > >If Van had treated me like he treated Stef, I would have walked. He >was cruel. He was callous. He was condescending and insulting. Bottom line: Vanyel was afraid. Stef loved him enough to see that and to know that it was the fear talking, not Vanyel. > Danya ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 18:39:27 CST From: "JAIME HATHAWAY" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia Message-ID: > Date sent: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 00:12:38 +0100 (BST) > Send reply to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk > From: Korendil > To: jsjahath-+AT+-future.judson.edu > Subject: Re: Talia > 1384-talia chosen--13 > 1391-talia gets whites--20 > 1392-talia becomes QO > 1392-Ancar usurps throne > 1394-Ancar attacks a second time. Rebuffed by the 'bolts > 1401-WoFate starts > 1401-talia 30 > 1401-tarma dead at LATEST > 1401-1402- WoChange > 1402-Tarma is a leshya'e Kal'enedral > May I ask where you are getting your dates from? I'm sorry, they can't be really accurate, b/c if so, then it took Talia 7 years to get her Whites, and that isn't consistent with anything in Arrows.> (I want my books!!! :) ) Where does it say Tarma died and became a leshya'e Kal'enedral? Is it in BTS? (I really missed something somewhere....) Thanks... WTTW, Jacquelle Oh, very clever, Worf. Eat any good books lately? --Q ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 20:04:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Ooops! Re: Yet more Van Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Linda Malcor, Ph.D wrote: > >BTW, I do agree that he was always gloom and doom on a stick, but > >he does seem to be the sort that is not completely fulfilled without a > >crisis and a chance to feel sorry for himself.... > > I don't agree at all. Van is fully alive and fulfilled when he's in love. > When he's not, he has a big, gaping hole in his life--and crises only make > that hole seem bigger. Ooops, I meant to say "I do agree that he *wasn't* always...." I have problems with typing negative clitics for some reason. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me **http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 19:26:28 CST From: "Katherine M. Brielmaier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Energizer Bunny Braid.... Message-ID: <80381.brie0030-+AT+-gold.tc.umn.edu> On Sat, 19 Oct 1996 23:47:57 +0100 (BST), Elizabeth Angell wrote: >You will go to P-KM's webpage. You will read her books. You will be >very glad you obeyed me. Seriously, her stuff is fantasic. You should >start with The Copper Crown and read her books in the order they were >written, you'll have a better introduction to a complex world that way. I read The Silver Branch first, then Copper Crown and Throne of Scone and got along just fine--although I will admit that the change in writing style from Branch to Crown gave me a pause (you can really tell...Branch's language is much more poetic and evocative in terms of speech patterns, grammar, and phrasing than Crown--also, Crown and Scone are a bit more SF than fantasy...) You have to hand it to PK-M--she's got a gorgeous way with language. >All right Cennydd, I'm off in Search of Elemental... I got The Visit >recently and now All Souls Night and The Lady of Shallot are taking turns >being stuck in my head. What an awful fate. Hey, I had "If you're >happy and you know it.." stuck in my head for *three* hours on Wednesday- >All Souls Night is sounding pretty good :-) I love The Visit above all else---just the right mix of traditional versus new, and the arrangements are wonderful! If anyone is interested in trying Loreena McKennitt, I recommend starting off with that album first. RE: Greensleeves The story goes that Henry VIII wrote that song to Anne Boleyn, and called her "My Lady Greensleeves" to hide her identity (as he was still married to Katherine of Aragon at the time, I believe). No one can prove it, to my knowledge, but that little bit of folklore accompanies the song. Also RE: Greensleeves (the McKennitt version) I just can't stand that one! The only problem is, when I think of Greensleeves, that's the only version I think of! Ick! When she hits that flat note on the third refrain I just cringe. Of that album, Courtyard Lullaby is the best, hands down. >HTH, what's TMBG? (always in search of new music in my never ending >attempt to bankrupt myself on books, music, & animals..) They Might Be Giants! I don't actively seek them out anymore, but I've still got the tapes! Woo Hoo! I just read Chrome Circle over the weekend...it was nice to get back to some reasonably decent Misty again (sorry, I just can't cope with this last trilogy...). If you liked Di Tregarde, you'll probably like this stuff, although I did think they spent a bit too much time Underhill in that Chaos/Mist, and having that "convenient savior" (a common Misty habit, I've noticed) in the nick of time was too much for me to swallow. Absolutely cracked up when I recognized those lyrics Tannim was singing, though! Genius! There was a preview for Kenneth Branagh's new version >of Hamlet, and *I* think it looks bloody fantastic. Shakespeare Freaks, >Unite! Wanna see that! Wanna see that new version of Romeo and Juliet too! Looks like it might actually be good. (I'm reminded of a line from "The Madness of King George"...about King Lear (wonderful play!) something along the lines of "I don't care for that ending at all...it's just so damn *tragic*!") >there's a problem. But while I was suffering through middle school >(otherwise known as Hell on Earth for shy kids who read a lot and get high >grades) Oh, God. Amen to that. Thank all the deities above and below that I never have to do that again. >This is probably the longest post I've ever made. See what happens when >you enter schoolwork-induced lurkerdom for a few days? I may never go away for the weekend again. I have become a slave to the list! 's e do bheatha Kaatje There I am in younger days, star gazing, Painting picture perfect maps of how my life and love would be Not counting the unmarked paths of misdirection My compass, faith in love's perfection I missed ten million miles of road I should have seen --Indigo Girls ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 17:23:40 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Re: Brvaes ... etc Message-ID: <199610202055_MC1-B13-66D3-+AT+-compuserve.com> Kory, try rembering that not everyone's email server has the same, er, whaddya callums, spaces across, as others. And I know my stupid server has a different sized mailing out screen than reading mail screen. Also, kory, you've been on this list long enough to have read Auntie Mel's Netiquette rules (which she posts regularly) wherein our beloved List Mistress tells us that long sigs are 'right out'. I'd suggest dropping the whole quote and at least half your title we all are aware of thy credentials, sir knight, and need not be reminded of them. For those of you that are *really* interested in past discussions and the rules of the list, you can find it all www.herald.co.uk/pub/lists/lackey-archives However, it is l-o-n-g and takes a while to load since it has all the posts since sometime in '95 plus the FAQs (which are at the end, of course :b) A word of warning -> terribly long sigs tend to make people really angry -> see the post about people who have to PAY PER BYTE!!!! So, unless you want to become a card carrying member of The Drifting Ashes Club (like yours truly who was flamed back in march or april for not citing textevd by Cen) i'd really recommend thinking at least twice about it Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 21:04:16 -0400 From: Perry Rose To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Topics Message-ID: <326ACC10.48B0-+AT+-ctol.net> I've seem a lot of story line hopefuls lately, but what I've always been curious about is those countries that appear on the maps and maybe get mentioned twice. What about a story about Seejay or Velvar or whatever country that is on the other side of Lake Evendim? We just found out about Iftel and why it's on the map. So why are the others on there? --------- > But while I was suffering through middle school > >(otherwise known as Hell on Earth for shy kids who read a lot and get high > >grades.I had those problems too, but I was surprised how different it can be in college. For once, us weirdos and nerds are praised for being different, and we still don't have to fit in to have fun:) Dyana ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 20:16:12 -0500 (CDT) From: kaychang-+AT+-eden.com (CrystalSkye) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Middle School Hell... Message-ID: <199610210116.UAA25888-+AT+-natashya.eden.com> >>HTH, what's TMBG? (always in search of new music in my never ending >>attempt to bankrupt myself on books, music, & animals..) > >They Might Be Giants! I don't actively seek them out anymore, but I've=20 >still got the tapes! Woo Hoo! Oh, me and my friend Amy like to drive my other friend Erica (she's= =20 the one whose stolen my books! 'Course, I stole hers for a while, so I guess= =20 we're even... ) singing their songs over and over and over... ;D > >>there's a problem. But while I was suffering through middle school >>(otherwise known as Hell on Earth for shy kids who read a lot and get high >>grades) =20 >Oh, God. Amen to that. Thank all the deities above and below that I never= =20 >have to do that again. You're lucky. :( I'm still stuck there. And yes, I'm a shy person in Real=20 Life=99, and I read a lotlot*lot*, and I get really good grades. (Straight-A= =20 student.) And all the "populars" have set out to make my life totally=20 miserable. :P Go fig. :) They know nothing. And it's so=20 much *fun* to confuse 'em all with big confusing words and all.... >I may never go away for the weekend again. I have become a slave to the=20 >list! =20 I haven't... yet. ;) obMisty (I think. Looke, my first one ever!) Hey, does anyone else know any= =20 alt codes? They're soooooo fun! :) That's where I got the =99 sign from! :) =A9V{=A3=A8fN{11=A7=BA=A5=A8=A3=A5=A5=9C=A5=A5=A5=D1=D1=C6=A5M=A8D=BF=9C=84 = =A5+A=84=BF1=A3=A8=BF=D4=A8=A8=BFP=A8=A8=A8 Believe it or not, I got all those from pressing various numbers on the=20 right numberboard and the alt button! (Honest!) Terra Chang Insanity is the playground of the unimaginative *~*~* "Is the world going crazy, or is it just *ME*??" ---- "And I say I'm dead... and I move." *~*~* CrystalSkye's Personal Universe! GO SEE IT! ;) http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/6315/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 20:18:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Disney To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia Message-ID: <01IAVMT0LA0I00CVP9-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU> Just a quick question... I thought Talia got her Whites when she was 18? In Arrows of the Queen, during the first supper Talia had with the trainees, she asked Sherrill "How long does it take to be a Herald?" "It varies; about 5 years. Usually we arrive here when we're about your age, and most of us get our Whites at 18." And then she had an 18 month training circuit with Kris, that makes her about 19and a half or so when she arrived back at the Palace... And during the first Winds book Elspeth was in the Training mode but still at the palace because they couldn't risk the Heir to the usual dangers.. so she was probably around 18 or 19 or thereabouts..At that time talia would be *ponder* about (since talia's about 6 years older, i think) um...around 25 or so... Then at the end of the Winds books that's like....2?3? years later, so I'd say Talia's around 27 or 28...:) Of course, this is mostly without books to corroberate (sp?) but not as much time seems to have passed as some people seem to think Check my dates if you have the books...(danged friends wanting to borrow books just when I want em! :>) "Disneyworld" worshipper of the Mouse All HAIL the MOUSE! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 21:15:52 -0400 From: Korendil To: Subject: Re: Talia Message-ID: <9610210120.AA02571-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> >May I ask where you are getting your dates from? I'm sorry, they >can't be really accurate, b/c if so, then it took Talia 7 years to >get her Whites, and that isn't consistent with anything in Arrows.> >(I want my books!!! :) ) >Where does it say Tarma died and became a leshya'e Kal'enedral? Is >it in BTS? (I really missed something somewhere....) Thanks... Oh..k...I'll...go..through..this...once..a...gain... To start from the bottom up, consider reading Winds of Change and = Storm Breaking, both of which have Tarma-as-leshya'e in them. Now..about Talia...I'm just as suprised as anyone else when I looked = through the figures and found that. So I did them again. Same result. = I'll go dredge up how I did it..I guess...brb.. 1251- kethry born It says in Oathbound that it was seven years ago, = or somesuch, and that was when she was 13, or somesuch. This part I'm = sure about 1270- kethry 19 ditto 1371-talia born OK..htf did I figger this? lessee... 1376-Selenay queened this is obvious from the timeline 1377-elspeth born guesswork, since selenay married pretty quickly 1378-hunting accident more guesswork, but we know that elspeth was = still very young when he died, and he had only just sent for Hulda 1384-talia chosen ok..when tali's chosen, el is 7. el was born, say, = a year after sel was queened. So 1384 - 8 =3D 1376 1384-talia 13 very established 1384-elspeth 7 ditto 1391-talia gets whites there is a 6 year age diff. between talia and = el. El is born in 1377, and is 14 in this book 1391-talia 20 14(el) + 6 (the diff) =3D 20 (tal) 1391-elspeth 14 aflight says she's almost 14, so she turned 14 that = year 1392-talia becomes QO it's the year after circuit 1392-elspeth 15 ditto 1392-Ancar usurps throne ditto ditto 1392-talia 21 ditto 1394-Ancar attacks a second time. Rebuffed by the 'bolts OK...my gf = is borrowing BTW, but let's see what Wof says:"some two years later = he made trial by border again and was beaten back by Bolts" 1401-WoFate starts "seven years from the last battle..." (wof = prologue) 1401-elspeth 24 if she's 15 nine years ago, she's 24 1401-talia 30 six year difference 1401-tarma dead at LATEST because el sees her spirit next year 1401-1402- WoChange it begins at beginning of winter 1402-Tarma is a leshya'e Kal'enedral el sees her there we go, k? K|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High = Court, O|Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan, God = of All R|Things Nocturnal, Ailurophile, #Macintosh Op, and = #Asgard Co-Owner. = E|---------------------------------------------------------------------= - N|"The duty of the innkeeper," he said to her one day, = emphatically, and D|in a low voice, "is to sell the first comer, = food, rest, light, fire, I|dirty linen, servants, fleas, and = smiles; to stop travelers, empty L|small purses, and honestly = lighten large ones; to receive families who -+AT+-|are traveling, with = respect; fleece the man, pluck the woman, and pick I|over the = child; to charge for the open window, closed window, chimney = C|corner, sofa, chair, stool, bench, featherbed, mattress, and straw = U|bed; to know how much the reflection wears the mirror down and = to tax B|that; and, by five hundred thousand devils, to make the = traveler pay E|for everything, including the flies his dog eats!" = D.NET --Victor = Hugo=B9s Les Mis=E9rables ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 21:42:49 -0400 From: Korendil To: Subject: Re: Talia Message-ID: <9610210147.AA03265-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> ok..because of all those ='s I'll repost it with a more..sparse..sig >May I ask where you are getting your dates from? I'm sorry, they >can't be really accurate, b/c if so, then it took Talia 7 years to >get her Whites, and that isn't consistent with anything in Arrows.> >(I want my books!!! :) ) >Where does it say Tarma died and became a leshya'e Kal'enedral? Is >it in BTS? (I really missed something somewhere....) Thanks... Oh..k...I'll...go..through..this...once..a...gain... To start from the bottom up, consider reading Winds of Change and Storm Breaking, both of which have Tarma-as-leshya'e in them. Now..about Talia...I'm just as suprised as anyone else when I looked through the figures and found that. So I did them again. Same result. I'll go dredge up how I did it..I guess...brb.. 1251- kethry born It says in Oathbound that it was seven years ago, or somesuch, and that was when she was 13, or somesuch. This part I'm sure about 1270- kethry 19 ditto 1371-talia born OK..htf did I figger this? lessee... 1376-Selenay queened this is obvious from the timeline 1377-elspeth born guesswork, since selenay married pretty quickly 1378-hunting accident more guesswork, but we know that elspeth was still very young when he died, and he had only just sent for Hulda 1384-talia chosen ok..when tali's chosen, el is 7. el was born, say, a year after sel was queened. So 1384 - 8 = 1376 1384-talia 13 very established 1384-elspeth 7 ditto 1391-talia gets whites there is a 6 year age diff. between talia and el. El is born in 1377, and is 14 in this book 1391-talia 20 14(el) + 6 (the diff) = 20 (tal) 1391-elspeth 14 aflight says she's almost 14, so she turned 14 that year 1392-talia becomes QO it's the year after circuit 1392-elspeth 15 ditto 1392-Ancar usurps throne ditto ditto 1392-talia 21 ditto 1394-Ancar attacks a second time. Rebuffed by the 'bolts OK...my gf is borrowing BTW, but let's see what Wof says:"some two years later he made trial by border again and was beaten back by Bolts" 1401-WoFate starts "seven years from the last battle..." (wof prologue) 1401-elspeth 24 if she's 15 nine years ago, she's 24 1401-talia 30 six year difference 1401-tarma dead at LATEST because el sees her spirit next year 1401-1402- WoChange it begins at beginning of winter 1402-Tarma is a leshya'e Kal'enedral el sees her there we go, k? -+AT+-LIDNEROK__________________________________________________________KORENDIL -+AT+- I|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High Court, |I C|Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan, God of All Things |C U|Nocturnal, Ailurophile, #Macintosh Op, and #Asgard Co-Owner. |U BED.NET______________________________________________________________TEN.DE B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 02:00:33 GMT From: ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Classes/MZB/Myst (not Misty)/topping Message-ID: <199610210200.CAA00909-+AT+-enterprise.powerup.com.au> At 16:30 20/10/96 +0100, you wrote: > >On Sun, 20 Oct 1996 06:28:29 +0100 (BST) Mat the Cat in Green writes: > >>Speaking of the bookstore, has anyone ever played the game Myst? >>(it'll >>make sense in a second) If so, did anyone read the book based on >>the game (by the game-creators), _Myst: The Book of Atrus_? Now, > > YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES. I've got the game, I've got the book. I've >even got a mousepad with a picture of an Age of Myst on it! I LOVED the >game, and was very much eager to get the book. I have the paperback, and >soon will order the hardback to it. >>If anyone liked it, there's another prequel out. It's about Anna, >>Atrus' >>grandmother. Only her real name is Ti'ana. The book is called, >>(obviously) _Myst: The Book of Ti'ana_. I've gotta get it once my >>to-be-read list gets a bit shorter. > > I discovered Myst a few months ago and loved it. Tell me more about the books - who published/wrote/cost etc. Feel free to answer privately. Thanks. SG Spoiler Alert I finished SG yesterday and it certainly wasn't one of the best I've read. It all seemed too pat somehow. And are there any more of these wyrsas around? Surely there was more than just one family of them. Sorry - I always get a little narky when everyone of a group dies except the hero (or in this case Amberdrake and Skandranon). I find it hard to swallow the main characters being so clever as to come through unscathed while *everyone* else was stupid to get themselves killed. I'm reading McCaffrey's latest - Red Star Rising (2nd Chronicles of Pern) at the moment. Having only started last night, I'm reserving judgement. Has anyone else read it? I've seen a lot of writers names (or initials) being thrown around on the list - doesn't anyone read David Eddings or Janny Wurts or Jonathon Wylie? And I've gotta say that one of the best books I have ever read is Doomsday Book by Connie Willis. Today I spent one night's pay (No! It wasn't *that* kind of night!!!!! .... Adult Education Class - Writing For Children!) on Misty books and I'm now only missing four of the Valdemar books - as far as I can work out, at least - and those are on order for me. Oh, I also got Jennifer Roberson's Lady of the Forest - another book I really enjoyed when I got it from the library. Sorry about the mixed content - I find it hard to stick to just one writer - I like too many of them. WTTW Adrianne ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'Laugh for me. Joy is in the ears that hear.' Foamfollower, First Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, The Unbeliever ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 22:04:25 -0400 From: ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Brvaes Braidsson/ Re: Greensleeves Message-ID: <961020220158_1146198240-+AT+-emout01.mail.aol.com> Kory wrote: snip > At least no-one ever asks what the "sheep thing" is about;> Now, now. Don't tempt me. Actually, I never asked because I have a good idea. That, and I used my imagination . . . and using my imagination is just sooooo much more fun! ============================================================= > RE: Greensleeves (the McKennit version) snip > Of that album, Courtyard Lullaby is the best, hands down. I can't resist jumping in on this one. No no no! All Souls Night and The Old Ways are the best! In my so humble opinion, of course . I do aggree about Greensleeves, though. Awful! However, I must admit it kinda grew on me after awhile . . . ============================================================= Now, for my own little bit, I was deprived of access to the list for a few days last week, and did not catch up till last night! May I Never go through that again (crosses fingers, I hope, I hope, I hope). I swear my eyes were glazing over by the time I was halfway through, so much so, I skimmed (follows lead of others on list and ducks behind sheep) many responses, just so I could finish! That's all for now folks! Blessed Be, NightShade OIB and LotPW ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 891 *********************************