MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 897

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Mark Shepard/Heather Alexander
	by Jessica M Edmunds <Jessica.M.Edmunds-1-+AT+-tc.umn.edu>
  2) Re: FW: FDiscussedTopics/bookstore access/lists of lists/
	by Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
  3) Re: FW: FDiscussedTopics/bookstore access/lists of lists/
	by Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
  4) Re: FW: FDiscussedTopics/bookstore access/lists of lists/
	by teleute <dpollock-+AT+-Bayou.UH.EDU>
  5) Just a thought
	by gdjone1-+AT+-pacbell.net
  6) Cen & Van/Firesong & Doofus/Elspeth/Board/Mat's offering
	by LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com
  7) Re: Persona's
	by jmacjm19-+AT+-vcomm.net (gar&julie mclaughlin)
  8) Con/Sherryl Jordan/books
	by RIB - Richard Bertelsen <rib-+AT+-scanjour.dk>
  9) Re: FW: FDiscussedTopics/bookstore access/lists of lists/
	by ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au
 10) Re: Eddings
	by chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg
 11) 
	by Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
 12) Re: 
	by ramsdend-+AT+-uk.psi.com
 13) Re: Valdemar Tarot Deck
	by chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg
 14) Re: Valdemar Tarot Deck
	by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu
 15) Re: Cen & Van/Firesong & Doofus/Elspeth/Board/Mat's offering
	by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu
 16) RE: Rape of Van
	by "Valerie Sanford" <lessing-+AT+-msn.com>
 17) Women in science fiction project.
	by "Valerie Sanford" <lessing-+AT+-msn.com>
 18) Discussion Topics
	by "Valerie Sanford" <lessing-+AT+-msn.com>
 19) Re: Valdemar Tarot Deck
	by anderbdm-+AT+-juno.com (Dawn L. Anderson)
 20) Re: Just a thought
	by Ken Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 22:04:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jessica M Edmunds <Jessica.M.Edmunds-1-+AT+-tc.umn.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Mark Shepard/Heather Alexander
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.961022220016.13702E-100000-+AT+-gold.tc.umn.edu>



> > 
> > Yes, he is.  In fact, he is apparently one of the many people who was 
> > able to come to terms with his sexuality after reading LHM.  He and 
> > Misty became good friends, and she helped him work through his 
> > problems and get out of his marriage, etc.  And now he lives with her 
> > and Larry and the birds.
> 
> Hmm, that's cool.  In fact, LHM is one of the things that set me on the
> road to comming to terms with being shaych too.  Small world, huh? <g>
> Does that mean I get to move in with Misty now? <bg>

If LHM helping me come to terms with my sexuality means I get to move in 
w/ Misty, I'm there!  But really...

Mark is a very nice man!  I knew he was shaych a couple of years ago 
because he spent the entirety of Minicon hitting on my best friend!






















------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 23:02:27 -0400
From: Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: FW: FDiscussedTopics/bookstore access/lists of lists/
Message-ID: <9610230307.AA01407-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net>

>I'd like to go there.  I don't think Elspeth and Darkwind are lifebonded, 
>although Firesong seems to hint at that.  There just didn't seem to be any 
>"shock" when they met.  I think there's just tremendous love and respect, 
>which is just fine for a lifepairing.

Ok, guys,m I'm as sick of this as anyone else, but I gotta say something:

There is no proof that there's a SHOCK when lifebonds meet. THere wasn't 
for Van and Stef. There wasn't for Van and Lendel. There wasn't for Talia 
and Dirk. In fact, the only time there HAS been one is with Selenay and 
Daren. K? Just gotta clear that up.

BTW, I also believe that they aren't lifebound (no, it is NOT lifebonded) 
, just I don't calculate in the lack of shock.


-+AT+-LIDNEROK________________________________________________KORENDIL-+AT+-
I|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High|I
C|Court, Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan,  |C 
U|God of All Things Nocturnal, Ailurophile, and  #Macintosh Op. |U 
BED.NET____________________________________________________TEN.DEB


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 23:08:23 -0400
From: Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: FW: FDiscussedTopics/bookstore access/lists of lists/
Message-ID: <9610230313.AA01502-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net>

>And frankly, if I can be so bold, I'm not worried if this has been posted to 
>death.  It hasn't since I've been on the list and with the number of "I'm a 
>Newbie" posts, I think we can talk about almost anything.  If you've been 
>there, done that to death, just delete.

And why, may I ask, SHOULD we delete? 

If the solution to discussing something the mass of the list doesn't is 
"why cant they delete it?", then I'm damned well gonna discuss coconuts 
and the mage-war list and the air-speed velocity of unladen swallows.

But that ISN'T what I'm going to do. Why not? Brcause telling people to 
delte what they don't want to hear is NOT NICE. 

I don't mind us discussing older things,  *if there is a new 
perspective*. As for el and darkwind and eldan and kero, we've discussed 
that SO many times in the past that it IS useless to talk about it more. 
I'm probably just going to ignore everything on that subject, but I 
shouldn't have to. I will, though, because you have a right to discuss 
what you want to, other parties willing. 

Nevertheless, Jake, GET THE FAQ DONE SO THESE NEWBIES DON'T HAVE AN 
EXCUSE!!!!!

ObMisty: I realized something recently. Misty writing multiple books a 
year isn't new, is it? I mean, she wrote mpawn the same year as afall, I 
think, and stuck v&h in between some of those somewhere...so two velgarth 
books a year are normal, right? Then again, those two plus fairy tale 
retellings and urban fantasies and all is not...

-+AT+-LIDNEROK________________________________________________KORENDIL-+AT+-
I|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High|I
C|Court, Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan,  |C 
U|God of All Things Nocturnal, Ailurophile, and  #Macintosh Op. |U 
BED.NET____________________________________________________TEN.DEB


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 22:38:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: teleute <dpollock-+AT+-Bayou.UH.EDU>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: FW: FDiscussedTopics/bookstore access/lists of lists/
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.93.961022222033.8557A-100000-+AT+-Bayou.UH.EDU>

On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Valerie Sanford wrote:

> I'd like to go there.  I don't think Elspeth and Darkwind are lifebonded, 
> although Firesong seems to hint at that.  There just didn't seem to be any 
> "shock" when they met.  I think there's just tremendous love and respect, 
> which is just fine for a lifepairing.
> 
> HOWEVER - I do think Eldon and Kero are lifebonded.  I happen to really like 
> their relationship.  Weird I know, but I think this dreamscape stuff is really 
> cool.   Kind of like a real-fantasy.  I would like to read more about Kero and 
> Eldon and what happens with the Skybolts.  I think my favorite book of the 
> entire Velgarth series is BTS.  SO many of my favorite characters are part of 
> the plot and I like to see how she brings all the countries together.
> 
> 
> Eldon and Kero are I belive lifebonded because of the strength of their tie to 
> last for years and through great distances.
> 
> And frankly, if I can be so bold, I'm not worried if this has been posted to 
> death.  It hasn't since I've been on the list and with the number of "I'm a 
> Newbie" posts, I think we can talk about almost anything.  If you've been 
> there, done that to death, just delete.
> 
> Welcome thoughts about Eldon/Kero
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Val
> 
My favorite book is BTS, too! It may have retained a special place in my
heart since it was the first Misty book I read (given to me by the same
friend who introduced me to Neil Gaiman--thank you, Hannah!). Anyways, I
always thought Eldon and Kero were lifebonded. Their tie certainly seems
strong and enduring enough. (Theirs is one of my favorite relationships in
all Mistydom, so this conclusion is probably biased...wish I had my copy
with, so I could support it better...why did I not take more of my books to 
college?)

Abrupt change of subject:
Help! I'm doing a culture history report on women in science
fiction/fantasy and am having major troubles narrowing my focus. Any
ideas on what/who I should include?


 Teleute (aka)
dpollock-+AT+-bayou.uh.edu
"Every road leads back to my door
 Every road I will follow..."
			 	--Tori



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 22:19:41 -0700
From: gdjone1-+AT+-pacbell.net
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Just a thought
Message-ID: <326DAAED.1DE7-+AT+-pacbell.net>

Heyla!
		Well, I had a thought (Gasp!) if there were to be a 
Valdemar Tarot deck made who or what scene would be on the cards?  I 
think Vanyel would be the Magician and maybe Selenay the Empress.  What 
do you all think?


						Happiness Always,
						Lillandra

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 01:27:04 -0400
From: LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Cen & Van/Firesong & Doofus/Elspeth/Board/Mat's offering
Message-ID: <961023012704_549301222-+AT+-emout16.mail.aol.com>

The Lilac Fairy asked:
>>>Ahem. The Lilac Fairy assumes you have textual evidence for these very
strong statements? <<<

And the Magnificent Mage of Green Silences replied:
>>Well, I suppose I shall have to go look.  It is there and I can find it, I
just don't want to right now.  But for you, ma chere Fee, I will.  BTW, I
never said that Van was cruel and callous for the pleasure of it!  If he had
been, I doubt if anyone on this list would have liked him, and I know that I
would have a lot worse to say than that I thought he was whiny and a jerk to
his boyfriend.<<

Well, the Lilac Fairy's point was that Van did treat Stef pretty roughly when
he was going to go off after Leareth, and he wanted to make Stef stay behind,
but it wasn't because he just liked being mean, but because he believed that
Stef would be better off safely at Haven. 

Moi: >>>Cen, how many times have you read LHM? Are your impressions based on
one reading, or have you read the trilogy more than once?<<<

The Glorious Green One:
>>I am wounded!  Shot through the very heart by one whom I have lavished with
my care and utterly fashionable presence!  Oh, the humanity! Seriously, I
have read LHM at least 5 or 6 times. I have read MPawn more than that because
I like that volume the best of the series.<<

Well, the Lilac Fairy did sort of apologize in advance for asking! And she'll
let you off the hook about the text. evid. She was just teasing- giving you a
taste of your own medicine, as it were. You've been pretty thoroughly pounced
upon for saying mean things about our beloved Vanyel. And now your chere Fee
has to rush to Firesong's defense- again! 

On Mon, 21 Oct Our Adored Mat the Cat in Green wrote:
>> From: LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com
>> one of the AOL Misty boards, some idiot posted a totally fatuous and
callous comment about **snip** Firesong. **snip**  we could start a new
topic. <<

>>Which board?  I'm curious what has milady so upset. (says
MTimmer48-+AT+-aol.com)<<

Since several people inquired, the post was in response to a thread about the
ending of SB.

Storm Breaking spoiler:


s
p
o
i
l
e
r

s
p
a
c
e



There was a thread about the ending of SB, and how Karal being blinded and
Firesong disfigured were "lessons" they needed to learn to grow and mature. 

I think it's against Netiquette to repost a message without permission, so
I'll paraphrase:

Subj:  Firesong's scarring

** The poster doesn't agree with the idea that Firesong's disfigurement was
supposed to teach him a lesson. He points out that Firesong almost
immediately starts finding a way to be beautiful and admired again. He thinks
that Firesong hasn't learned anything, that he's always used his beauty to
get what he wants, and is just adapting his strategy to keep on doing the
same.  He is still selfish. **   


..................................................!!!!! <--the Lilac Fairy is
speechless!!!!! 

But not for long.

She is assuming this insensitive doofus is talking about Firesong creating
beautiful masks to hide his disfigurement, hummm? Which to her is a very
healthy way of coping with something that is horribly traumatic. 

Warning: hysterical rant ahead-

WHAT THE MORE DOES THE MAN HAVE TO DO TO GET SOME RESPECT!!!  Ritually
disembowel himself with Need's melted shards? Throw himself into a volcano?
Eat his own cooking for the rest of his life? I could go on and list pages of
text evid. and analysis to prove that Firesong is NOT selfish when it counts-
he has risked his life for others more than once. So he likes to be
comfortable and be cared for and pampered- wouldn't we all like that if we
could get it? Aaarrggghhhh!








end of spoiler







Oh poop. The Lilac Fairy is tired. First she has to come to Vanyel's defense
and now this. Fighting for truth, justice and the Velgarthian way is hard
work- she needs a soak in a hot tub and a good night's sleep.

---------------------
The Most Excellent Cat in Green wrote:

>> BTW - does anyone else think that Firesong is descened from both
Brightstar *and* his sister?   What makes me think this is that Firesong
mentions that he is descended from Van on both sides.  Now, that could just
mean that both of his parents are descened from Brightstar, but for some
reason, that's not the explanation that sticks in my mind.<<

The Lilac Fairy did think of that as well. We don't know much at all about
Firesong's life before he arrives at K'Sheyna Vale in WoC. Just that both of
his parents are alive and they seem to get along. And that he was using nodes
as a small child. And he was sexually active as soon as he was old enough to
send feathers to suitors.<g>

------------------------------- 
Khenta wrote:

>>We had that Elspeth-debate a few months ago and I kept one argument in mind
**snip** Elspeth was about 18 when she  got her whites, and in WoFate, she's
26. And all that time she had to  stay in Haven, safely at Mama's hem and
under Kero's meticulous gaze. She didn't even have a real field-internship,
but "special assignment" to the  Skybolts **snip**. In a situation like this,
I  completely understand if she becomes a bit bitchy. I would, either. Who
wouldn't, honestly?<<

Good points. And may I add this- how much you wanna bet that every time
Elspeth got angry about something, and started to express that anger, someone
would mutter, "Oh, look, there's The Brat again." You know, the way when a
woman gets mad, someone is bound to ask "Is it that time of the month, dear?"
It's an easy way of invalidating someone's feelings and making them wrong.
Elspeth just happened to have that "button" that was easy to find and push.

--------------------------

Re: Van's rape-

The actual rape scene didn't bother me so much, but the following scenes
where Van is trying to escape the spell on him, and then almost slaughters
his attackers was harrowing. And Stefan got a chance to be the responsible
one, and do some growing up. My objection to the whole thing is that it came
way too close to the end of the book. As it stands, the ending is just too
cluttered and rushed. 

My major problem with MPrice is that it really needed to be two books.
There's just way too much going on plotwise. We needed to meet Stefan
earlier, and have more time for Van and Stef's relationship to develop. 

-------------------
NightShade wrote:
>>HTH commented that CotN didn't have any of the foibles, etc. Umm, actually
there was at least one. Since the infamous "hit in the back of the head with
a board" thing that comes up in *every* book she writes practically, was
brought to my attention, I was on the look out for it when I reread this
book. And yes, sorry to say, it does make an appearance <shudder>.<<

But I LIKE the board to the back of the head! I always assumed it was a
deliberate running joke, sort of a wink to Misty's fans. I'd be disappointed
if it WASN'T there somewhere in each book- but only once. I think Misty did
use it twice in the same book, and that was too much.

---------------------------
Mat wrote :

>>[deep, elegant bow to the Lilac Fairy and the Ladies] Thank you miladies.
 I will do my utmost to prove worthy of thy affections.   Ah, Richard and
Alec?  Methinks I am going to pay a visit to The Bower tonight. <weg>  And I
shall bear gifts of totally fat, cholesterol, and guilt free chocolate
(magically conjured, for, alas, Mat is not the cook his fellow OoUL/L Cennydd
is). :)  <<

Where did everyone get the idea that the Lilac Fairy is on a diet? People
keep offering to bring guilt-free munchies, which is an oxymoron if she ever
heard one! She wants REAL food, from the four major food groups- salt, sugar,
fat and caffeine. Oh, you other Ladies and Gentlemen can eat the healthy
stuff <shudder> The Lilac Fairy is calling out for pepperoni and sausage
pizza with extra cheese. 

But you're always welcome at The Bower anyway, Mat. ;-)

The Lilac Fairy
Lady of the Pink Wand

Lee Cox
San Francisco Performing Arts Library & Museum (SF PALM)


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 02:35:49 -0400
From: jmacjm19-+AT+-vcomm.net (gar&julie mclaughlin)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Persona's
Message-ID: <v01530500ae92f8d63acf-+AT+-[204.253.92.104]>

Ok, I'll put this up again because we have so many newbie's and people who
may have missed it the first time:
I have the persona requirements for Bard, Healer, Herald, Merc and
Taylendras. If your intrested in one or all five, email me privatly and
I'll email it to you.  Warning, these are rather long, and because these
are official copies, I cant edit them! So people who pay by byte, be
warned! I will send all five if you ask it, but because they are so long,
it comes in two parts. If anyone has any questions about it, email me. To
become "official" though, you must be a member of QO. You can start now
though!
----------------------------------
Cennydd said:
>Are you sure that you are confusing The Fionavar Tapestry with Misty (Ack!
>*mind reels at the very suggestion*)?  The High Kingdom of Brennan was the
>main venue in Fionavar.

Oops! Sorry about that! I misspelled it! I meant "High Kingdom of Brendan".
Its in BTS on page 392. "She had a mental map of everything as far north as
the mountains above Valdemar, and as far south as the Bitter Sea; west to
Pelagirs and the plains, east to the High Kingdom of Brendon". Suppose its
part of the Empire?
----------------------------------------
Nina said:
>AHHHH!  Let's not go there.  However, I want to know if anyone thinks Kero
>and Eldan are lifebonded?  Their relationship was a bit out of the ordinary.
>When they're in the cave, doesn't Eldan feel something like a shock (you
>know, the kind experienced by Talis-Dirk and later by Selenay-Deren)?  Just
>wondering.

Ok, this is from Morgan, a good friend of Misty and Larry, who happens to
be one of the people who gets to read everything at least a year before we
do. Kero and Eldan are not lifebonded. Elspeth and Darkwind are not
lifebonded. Neither is Skif and Nyara, or Firesong and Silverfox. (And next
time I talk to her I'll ask her about Owlflight! I forgot last time!
Sorry!) Or at least thats what she said Misty told her! (Oh dear, sounds
like I'm playing the "he said, she said game again! AHHHH!)
----------------------------
Cennydd said:
ObMisty: You know, despite the fact that Misty is purported to live in OK,
>her magestorms don't really seem to be that spectacular.  Frankly, I don't
>recall ever seeing a tornado mentioned in her books, and I can't imagine
>that an Okie would forget that element to a really major storm. =)
>
Your right! And considering her garage was leveled by a tornado a few years
ago, I'm suprised they dont show up in her books more often! The closest I
saw her come was in Sacred Ground, telling someone about a tornada watch. I
also remember in SW Karal coming into Valdemar and seeing damage that was
similar to what you would see after a tornado.
------------------------------



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 08:47:30 +0100
From: RIB - Richard Bertelsen <rib-+AT+-scanjour.dk>
To: "'M.L. Post'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Con/Sherryl Jordan/books
Message-ID: <c=DK%a=_%p=scanjour%l=VIMS-961023074730Z-386-+AT+-vims.scanjour.dk>

Hi Everybody.

I am finally back after a 2-day con, 3 days far away on work and an
extended
weekend and more work.

Currently I am working my way through over 500 mails, and will have some
remarks in a while.

To Lady 'Reesa (and the rest of You who like Sherryl Jordan):

It was very pleasant to meet Sherryl Jordan. Unfortunately I didn't have
as
much time as I wanted to talk with her, but I managed to get to ask her
about The Juniper Game. She doesn't expect to write a sequel about the
people in 
the book, as it has been several years since the book was written. She
did
tell me, however, that she had been asked this question before, but she
wrote the book in 1989 and it is over and done.

I bought about 15 books at the con and have been busy reading ever
since.

I finally got Storm Rising and liked it.

I also got Elvenblood, and I can see what was meant about the
inconsistency about iron influence on elven magic.

I have also read Sherryl Jordans The Juniper game, Luis McMaster
Bulold's
Cetaganda and Niven, Pournelle and Barnes Boewulf's Children.

There is nothing like a 3-hour trainride that can help you get through
some books.

I will be back later, when I have cought up with the mail

Richard (Yet to decide what to be god of)




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 08:34:31 GMT
From: ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: FW: FDiscussedTopics/bookstore access/lists of lists/
Message-ID: <199610230834.IAA29078-+AT+-enterprise.powerup.com.au>

 Teleute (aka) wrote:
>
>Abrupt change of subject:
>Help! I'm doing a culture history report on women in science
>fiction/fantasy and am having major troubles narrowing my focus. Any
>ideas on what/who I should include?
>
>

Take a look at Thendarra House by MZB. Now there you have two women swapping
roles and trying to cope with different cultures. Don't know if that's quite
what you need but I'd say it's a good place to start.

Adrianne
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Laugh for me. Joy is in the ears that hear.'
Foamfollower, First Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, The Unbeliever
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:50:12 -0700
From: chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Eddings
Message-ID: <199610232350.QAA02018-+AT+-rgs.rgs.edu.sg>

>Yeah, it's not her best - she waffles a little. For a stunning 
>[co-authored] series of hers, try Daughter/Servant/Mistress of the
>Empire, co-authored with Raymond E. Feist. (And for a change, the 
>combination of them writing together works a lot better than either 
>of them writing on their own). Wurts' Stormwarden series is a lot
>better, IMHO.
>I like Eddings' Belgariad/Mallorean a lot as well. The characters are 
>old friends and the reuse of plots is at least covered by his in-book 
>explanation; besides which, he runs variations on the all the subtle
>details in between.

Here am I out of Lurkerdom, and here's my comments about
Daughter/Mistress/Servant of the Empire. In fact, it is hard to find words
to describe it, but here is one: "excellent!" Those who have no books to
read should try it and those who have got books to read, put these books on
the list of books you plan to read, you will not regret it. 

Stormwind
Learning is a treasure which accompanies its owner everywhere.
--Anonymous


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 10:47:18 +0100 (BST)
From: Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
To: mercedes-lackey
Message-ID: <199610230947.KAA12690-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>

Nice though it is to see other Babylon 5 fans on the list, let me just make
one of those Official Listmistress Pronouncements that you all know and love:


	Anyone posting spoilers for Season 4 episodes will be ripped
	apart by my own personal pack of wyrsa.


Living in the UK has advantages and disadvantages; the advantage at the moment
is that I know what happens at the end of Season 3, the disadvantage is that
we don't start getting Season 4 until "sometime next year".

I should probably generalise that to "spoilers for any episode", actually, 
since I don't know where the Australian, German (etc) viewers are up to, but
that's the most important pronouncement.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Misty discussion...

Mel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:01:23 +0000
From: ramsdend-+AT+-uk.psi.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: 
Message-ID: <199610231005.LAA08406-+AT+-staff.uk.psi.com>

<big snip on Mel's B5 warning>

B5 yuck! :)

Sorry Auntie Mel...habbit

OBMisty:  Do you think that the Kaled'in barges could be modified to 
go fly upwards into space with air pockets?  Okay, so it is a lame 
OBmisty


David ramsden

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 19:37:18 -0700
From: chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Valdemar Tarot Deck
Message-ID: <199610240237.TAA05478-+AT+-rgs.rgs.edu.sg>

>		Well, I had a thought (Gasp!) if there were to be a 
>Valdemar Tarot deck made who or what scene would be on the cards?  I 
>think Vanyel would be the Magician and maybe Selenay the Empress.  What 
>do you all think?

It would be a wow! if they can draw Vanyel properly, nice and handsome!
Anyway, Nyrra's father (that bad guy, can't remember his name) will probably
land up as the devil. The heralds would be portrayed in the minor arcanas.
Death will probably be the person (my memory is dying, I know but...) who
Vanyel fought against in MPrice. What can the Wheel be? Hermit, let that be
the person (Yes, I forgot again, must reread all my books<g>) who gave Talia
"My Lady". What other Major Arcanas are there left? Maybe Solaris can be one
major arcana and so can Kero!

Stormwind
Learning is a treasure which accompanies its owner everywhere.
--Anonymous


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 08:14:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Valdemar Tarot Deck
Message-ID: <199610231314.AA104786453-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu>

> 
> >		Well, I had a thought (Gasp!) if there were to be a 
> >Valdemar Tarot deck made who or what scene would be on the cards?  I 
> >think Vanyel would be the Magician and maybe Selenay the Empress.  What 
> >do you all think?
> 
> It would be a wow! if they can draw Vanyel properly, nice and handsome!
> Anyway, Nyrra's father (that bad guy, can't remember his name) will probably
> land up as the devil. The heralds would be portrayed in the minor arcanas.
> Death will probably be the person (my memory is dying, I know but...) who
> Vanyel fought against in MPrice. What can the Wheel be? Hermit, let that be
> the person (Yes, I forgot again, must reread all my books<g>) who gave Talia
> "My Lady". What other Major Arcanas are there left? Maybe Solaris can be one
> major arcana and so can Kero!
> 
> Stormwind
> Learning is a treasure which accompanies its owner everywhere.
> --Anonymous
> 
> 

You mean:

	Falconsbane=Devil
	Lereath=Death
	Jadus=Hermit

I'm not all that familiar with tarot cards, so I can't really help with the
other arcana.

Nina

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 08:28:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Cen & Van/Firesong & Doofus/Elspeth/Board/Mat's offering
Message-ID: <199610231328.AA115217313-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu>

 
> Since several people inquired, the post was in response to a thread about the
> ending of SB.
> 
> Storm Breaking spoiler:
> 
> 
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
> 
> s
> p
> a
> c
> e
> 
> 
> 
> There was a thread about the ending of SB, and how Karal being blinded and
> Firesong disfigured were "lessons" they needed to learn to grow and mature. 
> 
>  
> Subj:  Firesong's scarring
> 
> ** The poster doesn't agree with the idea that Firesong's disfigurement was
> supposed to teach him a lesson. He points out that Firesong almost
> immediately starts finding a way to be beautiful and admired again. He thinks
> that Firesong hasn't learned anything, that he's always used his beauty to
> get what he wants, and is just adapting his strategy to keep on doing the
> same.  He is still selfish. **   
> 
> 
> WHAT THE MORE DOES THE MAN HAVE TO DO TO GET SOME RESPECT!!!  Ritually
> disembowel himself with Need's melted shards? Throw himself into a volcano?
> Eat his own cooking for the rest of his life? I could go on and list pages of
> text evid. and analysis to prove that Firesong is NOT selfish when it counts-
> he has risked his life for others more than once. So he likes to be
> comfortable and be cared for and pampered- wouldn't we all like that if we
> could get it? Aaarrggghhhh!
> 

I have to agree.  Yes, Firesong _was_ selfish...to a point. But, he didn't
use his beauty to "get"  An'desha.  At the end of WoFury, doesn't Firesong
see in An'desha someone he can heal and take care of (he _is_ a healing
adept, after all).  And, at the end of SW and SB, he risks his life to save
Karal and the others.  Not the acts of a selfish, totally self-absorbed,
egocentric person.  Besides, Silverfox wants to be with him, even after
Firesong is scarred.  Is _that_ using beauty to get what he wants, or is it
becasue Silverfox sees what is good in him?  Just one more thought (no
textev...sorry)...wasn't it Karal and/or An'desha who first make a
"mask"/veil for Firesong?  

Just my $.02 of ranting for this week.

Nina
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 96 14:48:00 UT
From: "Valerie Sanford" <lessing-+AT+-msn.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: RE: Rape of Van
Message-ID: <UPMAIL05.199610231501070124-+AT+-msn.com>


 HTH Wrote: 
As for Vanyel's rape, maybe it should have been less graphic, I don't
know.  But I am kind of glad it was in there, just because so few people
ever deal with the fact that men get raped, too -- which makes life
exceedingly difficult for men who *are* raped and don't have the
resources and the support structure that women have spent thirty years
building for each other.  It's a real temptation for men to believe that
a) this never happens to other men and b) if they were really strong and
manly, it wouldn't have happened to them.  I liked it that Misty
acknowledged first of all that it does happen, and second that it
happens even to very strong and capable people sometimes -- it's hardly
a sign of weakness if it can happen to the man who could bring Haven
down around his ears by thinking hard.


BRAVO - Rape is physical but also mental and spiritual abuse,  It can and does 
happen to everyone.  And the victims hold no blame.  We need to acknowledge 
that rape is POWER ABUSE.  Nothing more.  It breaks and crushes souls and 
often people cannot recover.  It is not sex and is done to 3 year olds 83 year 
olds and everyone in between.  Sometimes, just more brutally than others.

Val

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 96 14:44:06 UT
From: "Valerie Sanford" <lessing-+AT+-msn.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Women in science fiction project.
Message-ID: <UPMAIL05.199610231501040911-+AT+-msn.com>

Teleute wrote:

Abrupt change of subject:
Help! I'm doing a culture history report on women in science
fiction/fantasy and am having major troubles narrowing my focus. Any
ideas on what/who I should include?


Some thoughts:  I would of course work with Mercedes Lackey since you really 
like her, but you might need to decide fantasy or SF or future.  Some of the 
more powerful books I can think of on "cultural history" would be Sheri Tepper 
- the Gate to Woman's Country and again, Tepper's - Beauty.  The Handmaid's 
Tale by Margaret Attwood would also apply.  You  could also go back to the 
early 1900's and pick up the main female character from Thomas Mann's "The 
Machine Stops" - it's a short story that is so accurate about today that it's 
scary.  

Not being sure of any specific interest you have, you could look at a couple 
of interesing ideas:  Military Women in SF - Elizabeth Moon's stuff would be 
good here, as would the characters of Tarma and Kero.  Or you could look at 
the early Fantasy/SF efforts and their almost blatant exclussion of women - 
especially in middle earth (except of course the elfs) .  Tolkein would be 
your start here, although there are others, like CS Lewis' Perelandra trilogy.

It also might be interesting to trace the evolution of women in SF/Fantasy 
through the women's movement and take a female character or author who has 
been on the scene for a long time (20 or 30 years) and chronicle their writing 
as compared to what was happening in the women's movement.  You could take the 
three books from Betty Freidan and compare their summaries and theories 
against a parallel SF/Fantasy Book for that time.

Just some thoughts.  It sounds like a wonderful project.  Best of luck.

OB Misty:  As I become more familiar with this list, I am thrilled that so 
many young women have discovered Valdemar.  The rolemodels/examples of strong, 
independent women, women leaders, women of strength, integrity and compassion 
are wonderful examples to young people growing up.  I wish I had them instead 
of Nancy Drew (don't get me wrong, I loved Nancy Drew, but she didn't do much 
to help me craft my value system or improve my self esteem).

Thanks Misty.

Val

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 96 14:56:56 UT
From: "Valerie Sanford" <lessing-+AT+-msn.com>
To: "mercedes lackey list" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Discussion Topics
Message-ID: <UPMAIL05.199610231501110240-+AT+-msn.com>

>And frankly, if I can be so bold, I'm not worried if this has been posted to 
>death.  It hasn't since I've been on the list and with the number of "I'm a 
>Newbie" posts, I think we can talk about almost anything.  If you've been 
>there, done that to death, just delete.

And why, may I ask, SHOULD we delete? 

If the solution to discussing something the mass of the list doesn't is 
"why cant they delete it?", then I'm damned well gonna discuss coconuts 
and the mage-war list and the air-speed velocity of unladen swallows.

But that ISN'T what I'm going to do. Why not? Brcause telling people to 
delte what they don't want to hear is NOT NICE. 

I don't mind us discussing older things,  *if there is a new 
perspective*. As for el and darkwind and eldan and kero, we've discussed 
that SO many times in the past that it IS useless to talk about it more. 
I'm probably just going to ignore everything on that subject, but I 
shouldn't have to. I will, though, because you have a right to discuss 
what you want to, other parties willing. 

Nevertheless, Jake, GET THE FAQ DONE SO THESE NEWBIES DON'T HAVE AN 
EXCUSE!!!!!


********************

My intention was not to be rude or mean or even just plain NOT NICE.  I simply 
would like to point out, as you say, that everyone has a right to discuss what 
they want, provided other parties are willing.  End of statement.  Not having 
read the FAQ, I don't know the rules, but if they include a list of "not to be 
discussed topics because all of us "oldies" have done them to death", I'm sure 
I won't like it.  It is afterall a list for everyone who indicates an interest 
and desire to communicate about Mercedes Lackey, her world and her characters, 
how they impact us and is a place to answer questions and discuss topics that 
may have bothered us.  

Perhaps we should put a "DUMB NEWBIE QUESTION" spoiler to warn you off.  Also 
- don't correct my spelling.  

Seething mad -- Val

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:41:28 EDT
From: anderbdm-+AT+-juno.com (Dawn L. Anderson)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Cc: anderbdm-+AT+-juno.com
Subject: Re: Valdemar Tarot Deck
Message-ID: <19961023.103054.10862.0.anderbdm-+AT+-juno.com>


>You mean:
>
>	Falconsbane=Devil
>	Lereath=Death
>	Jadus=Hermit
>
>
You do know that Falconsbane and Lereath are the same person.   Or you
could say they are both M'ar (if thats how its spelled)  

Dawn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 12:03:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Just a thought
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961023112639.22051C-100000-+AT+-copland.udel.edu>

On Wed, 23 Oct 1996 gdjone1-+AT+-pacbell.net wrote:

> 		Well, I had a thought (Gasp!) if there were to be a 
> Valdemar Tarot deck made who or what scene would be on the cards?  I 
> think Vanyel would be the Magician and maybe Selenay the Empress.  What 
> do you all think?


Oooo!  This is going to be even more fun than the casting thread!

Here are my suggestions:

0 - The Fool -- Skif (before he lost his "fun")
1 - The Mage -- Vanyel (of course!)
2 - The High Priestess -- Savil (not Solaris!)
3 - The Empress -- Selenay
4 - The Emperor -- Daren (not really happy about this one)
5 - The Heirophant -- Solaris
10- The Wheel of Fortune -- An'desha (in all his incarnations!)

I can't remember the order for the others:

The Hermit (9?) -- Urtho
The Chariot -- Alberich
Temperance -- Amberdrake?
The Lovers -- Talia and Dirk
The Tower -- Urtho's Tower at the end of the Mage Wars
Death -- The Shadow Lover
The Star -- Tarma?
The Sun -- Altra
The Moon -- A pack of wyrsa in the Changelands
The Judgement -- Idra's spirit at the of OBr
The World -- The Goddess of the Shin'a'in
Strength(?) -- Kerowyn
The Hanged Man -- Jadrek
The Devil -- Ma'ar/Falconsbane

and a few others I can't remember without seeing the cards (which I don't 
have with me *grin*).

Then the Minor Arcana motifs:

Cups: Kaled'a'in [water (their home is a coastal city)]
Wands: Karsites [fire (The Sun-lord)]
Swords: Shin'a'in [air (The winds of the plains)]
Pentacles: Tayledras  [earth (Earth healing in the Pelagirs)]

Pawns: Valdemaran Guards
Knights: The Heralds of Valdemar
Queens: Selenay (in four guises) 
Kings: Randale (in four guises)

Anyway, what do you think?

May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit,

Cennydd,

Mage of the Green Silences.

Kenneth Allen Hyde     |  No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife
Univ. of Delaware      |  between the shoulder blades will seriously
Dept. of Linguistics   |  cramp his style  -- Old Jhereg proverb
kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu         |  A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me

**http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html**


------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 897
*********************************