MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 898

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Valdemar Tarot Deck
	by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu
  2) Topics which have been done to death
	by Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
  3) Oft-Discussed Topics
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
  4) Misty Women
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
  5) Elspeth/gifts/FAQs
	by Mat Timmerman <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
  6) Tarot, delurk, MO Companion, misc..
	by Hollie <haj-+AT+-wam.umd.edu>
  7) Re: Misty Women
	by Alanna P Hwang <aph200-+AT+-is5.NYU.EDU>
  8) Re: Valdemar Tarot/Discussion Topics
	by skarzin-+AT+-soonet.ca (Tony and Michele)
  9) tarot
	by Lisa Prior <lprior-+AT+-geocities.com>
 10) Congrats/Van/Tarot/Fluff
	by Clarissa Smith/Claris Boii <ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu>
 11) Van's Age/Mprice/characters
	by Wintershard <peallen-+AT+-naz.edu>
 12) Re: border/school from hell :) /1st version re Warrl
	by Susan Cass <susanc-+AT+-columbia-center.org>
 13) More Tarot
	by dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
 14) Braid: CotN/Lifebond/rape/Eldan&Kero/spaceflight/random q's/target
	by myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
 15) Re: B5
	by "Sarah Stock" <sarah-+AT+-paradigm.co.nz>
 16) Braids, feathers, beads and other Talaydres hair ornaments
	by GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:23:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Valdemar Tarot Deck
Message-ID: <199610231623.AA055407788-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu>

> 
> 
> >You mean:
> >
> >	Falconsbane=Devil
> >	Lereath=Death
> >	Jadus=Hermit
> >
> >
> You do know that Falconsbane and Lereath are the same person.   Or you
> could say they are both M'ar (if thats how its spelled)  
> 
> Dawn
> 
Yes, but whomever originated the tarot deck idea mentioned these characters
(regardless of their incarnation) but forgot their names.  Personally, I'd
put Ancar as the Devil and Ma'ar/Lereath/Falconsbane as Death.

Nina

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 18:33:46 +0100 (BST)
From: Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Topics which have been done to death
Message-ID: <199610231733.SAA01995-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>


> My intention was not to be rude or mean or even just plain NOT NICE.  I simply 
> would like to point out, as you say, that everyone has a right to discuss what 
> they want, provided other parties are willing.  End of statement.  Not having 
> read the FAQ, I don't know the rules, but if they include a list of "not to be 
> discussed topics because all of us "oldies" have done them to death", I'm sure 
> I won't like it.  It is afterall a list for everyone who indicates an interest 
> and desire to communicate about Mercedes Lackey, her world and her characters, 
> how they impact us and is a place to answer questions and discuss topics that 
> may have bothered us.  
> 
> Perhaps we should put a "DUMB NEWBIE QUESTION" spoiler to warn you off.  Also 
> - don't correct my spelling.  
> 
> Seething mad -- Val
> 

Hate to tell you this, Val, but there is indeed a "Frequently Discussed 
Topics" section in the FAQ. It's kind of short at the moment, but it will be
getting longer in the next update (yep, sorry Cennydd, that one's in my 
ballpark rather than Jake's). The two on the list at the moment are 
"Companions: are they reincarnated Heralds?" and "Which of Misty's characters
are lifebonded?".

Why are they on there? Well, this list's been running for ... hm ... somewhere
around the two-and-a-half year mark now. Many people have been on it for well
over half of that, and several even longer. (Excluding me, obviously.) I
could go through the archives and count the number of times that someone's
asked those two questions, but in both cases we'd be _well_ into double 
figures. (I wouldn't be too surprised if we were heading towards three 
figures with the first one, even.)

The problem with those two questions is that they are inherently not terribly
interesting. What's to discuss? (The first question having a yes or no answer,
and the second one having been answered by Misty for just about every possible
couple that's come up.) Surely we can find _something_ more interesting
to talk about.

Back in the days when the list was young, and I had more time on my hands, I
used to toss out a random question every now and then to keep discussion
going. It seems a bit pointless these days, but I'll try to start again if
people actually want me to.

Mel, in Listmistress mode (again)

------------------------------

Date:        Wed, 23 Oct 1996 12:01:26 CST
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Oft-Discussed Topics
Message-ID:  <23OCT96.12986057.0048.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

Kory, there is a difference between asking someone to delete threads
relating to some aspect of Misty's books that doesn't interest them and
asking them to delete a whole bunch of off-topic sparrow nonsense.

I occasionally grind my teeth when some new person comes along saying,
"Say, I've always wondered -- what do you guys think?" and six people
immediately respond with, "Shut up, we've already talked about that and
you missed it." Way to be friendly, guys.

I may have done it myself -- I tend to froth at the mouth when someone
says, "Do you think that Kerowyn's Companion Sayvil MIGHT have been
SAVIL???" But we really should try not to, at least until there is a FAQ
to warn these people when they're about to step on our personal land
mines.

On a high-volume list like this, the chances are always good that a
certain proportion of your mail will not be something that enlightens,
edifies, or even particularly amuses you.  The solution to this IS,
sorry, to skip or ignore and concentrate on the posts that you do care
about.  It is not to slap people down when they want to talk about
something that you personally don't.


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu

------------------------------

Date:        Wed, 23 Oct 1996 12:56:32 CST
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Misty Women
Message-ID:  <23OCT96.13977905.0097.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

Hrumph, grumble, grumble.  I don't know about this "role model"
business.  I sure wouldn't pick Misty women as role models, if I were in
the market for some.

I was complaining to someone about this just the other day.  I really
don't care much for her female characters.  I wouldn't date most of them
(Diana is the only exception that comes to mind, and Kerowyn on certain
days, but not for any particularly noble reason), and I really don't
want to be them.

They're so serious, so severe.  I like women (and men) who are frivolous
from time to time.  And no, don't say that it was war, etc.  Most normal
people can be serious and whimsical in close succession.  The last very
serious conversation I had was a few weeks ago, as a very dear friend
was trying to figure out what to do with a girlfriend who is plainly
very self-destructive and probably dangerous to be around.  Four of us
(two male, two female, if it matters) were sitting on the floor for
hours, talking about everything from sex and drugs and co-dependancy to
how to get Barbara's hair to hold curls without hairspraying it to
death.  I love it that we all feel comfortable talking about important
things with each other, and trivial, too.

It also bothers me that her female characters are usually so asexual.
It's as though Misty can't imagine people who are busy and important,
yet still have time for silly things like jokes and sex.  If you have
time for either of those things, you obviously aren't dedicated enough.
Many of her women are sexually active -- but not very.  Witness Kethry
and Kerowyn and Elspeth (maybe -- can't remember if Elspeth was a virgin
when she met Darkwind or not); Misty makes a point with all of them to
remind us that they only occasionally have sex, even though Kethry and
Kero, at least, are mature, attractive women with plenty of choices.
We've never had a female character -- except Di (yay, Di!) -- who
actually thinks about sex on a regular basis.

Problem three.  Most of her female characters are not very warm.  I
know, I know, that's a traditional female thing, stereotyped and all
that, but I happen to be a pretty romantic and nurturing person, and I
don't think that's bad.  Talia is the only one who's portrayed as gentle
or tender, and she's also portrayed as timid.  Funny thing is, the other
maternal, compassionate character is Tarma.  I guess Misty didn't feel
like she had to try so hard with Tarma to prove that she was strong and
independant.  But it's hard to see Kero or Elspeth or Natoli or Selenay
or Solaris or Savil as very emotional beings.

Just my opinion.  But I find her female characters hard to relate to,
being someone who values humor, sex, and relationships pretty much above
all.  I think it would be a pretty dank world if all women were like
Misty's main characters.


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 13:57:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mat Timmerman <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Elspeth/gifts/FAQs
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.961023134413.5695B-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

> From: LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com

> Good points. And may I add this- how much you wanna bet that every time
> Elspeth got angry about something, and started to express that anger, someone
> would mutter, "Oh, look, there's The Brat again." You know, the way when a
> woman gets mad, someone is bound to ask "Is it that time of the month, dear?"
> It's an easy way of invalidating someone's feelings and making them wrong.
> Elspeth just happened to have that "button" that was easy to find and push.

Ah, very good reason for her "bitchiness".  I use quotes, since
I don't think she's actually bitchy..

> Mat wrote :
> 
> >>[deep, elegant bow to the Lilac Fairy and the Ladies] Thank you miladies.
>  I will do my utmost to prove worthy of thy affections.   Ah, Richard and
> Alec?  Methinks I am going to pay a visit to The Bower tonight. <weg>  And I
> shall bear gifts of totally fat, cholesterol, and guilt free chocolate
> (magically conjured, for, alas, Mat is not the cook his fellow OoUL/L Cennydd
> is). :)  <<
> 
> Where did everyone get the idea that the Lilac Fairy is on a diet? People
> keep offering to bring guilt-free munchies, which is an oxymoron if she ever
> heard one! She wants REAL food, from the four major food groups- salt, sugar,
> fat and caffeine. Oh, you other Ladies and Gentlemen can eat the healthy
> stuff <shudder> The Lilac Fairy is calling out for pepperoni and sausage
> pizza with extra cheese. 

Ah, though the beauteous Lilac Fairy may be blessed with an ever-young
and slim figure, we are not all so.  Some of us need to watch our
weight.  But, just for you, I shall bring the most tempting of desserts.
:)

> But you're always welcome at The Bower anyway, Mat. ;-)

[sweeping bow]  Thank you milady. :)

============================================================================
> From: Valerie Sanford <lessing-+AT+-msn.com>

> My intention was not to be rude or mean or even just plain NOT NICE.  I 
> simply would like to point out, as you say, that everyone has a right
> to discuss what they want, provided other parties are willing.  End of
> statement.  Not having  read the FAQ, I don't know the rules, but if
> they include a list of "not to be discussed topics because all of us
> "oldies" have done them to death", I'm sure I won't like it.  It is
> afterall a list for everyone who indicates an interest and desire to
> communicate about Mercedes Lackey, her world and her characters, 
> how they impact us and is a place to answer questions and discuss topics that 
> may have bothered us.  

That is not the point of a FAQ.  The point of a FAQ -- a Frequently
Asked Questions list, is just that.  It lets all know what most
of the list has discussed and figured out.  The point is to avoid
the same exact discussions over and over.  Something is usually
put in a FAQ when noone can think of anything new to say about
a topic.  Thus, a newbie can see what we think about his/her idea,
since it's quite likely that lots of people (old and new) have
brought up the idea (i.e. "Hey, I think Sayvil is Savil!").
Now, if someone thinks of something that isn't in the FAQ (and thus,
hasn't had the same arguments used umpteen times), we'd all be
overjoyed (and I mean this totally unsarcastically) to discuss it.
But I'm sure that you can see how tiresome and boring the list
can become if the same topics are brought up every couple of weeks
or so.


Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,   |"Each man builds his own garden, by what
Adept, and God of Procrastination| his heart says is true. And I thank
Heathen #???                     | the stars, that watch over me,
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu       | because ours, is a garden for two."
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/|               - Heather Alexander
	          


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:19:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hollie <haj-+AT+-wam.umd.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Tarot, delurk, MO Companion, misc..
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961023135501.28782A-100000-+AT+-rac5.wam.umd.edu>


Hello everyone, I'm Hollie.

I'm just a beginner in the Tarot but some of the suggestions for cards
were a little off.  Like, in the Lovers, it represents "Choice" as well as
Love, so having Talia and Dirk, while true to the surface meaning,
wouldn't be true to the deeper meaning.  I doubt anyone really wanted too
much detail since this is all for 'fun' but I wouldt want 'Death'
represented by anyone 'evil'either.  Death isnt' evil, its a part of life.
Anyway, enough on that.

*******************

I read in the Arrows series that the Monarch's Own Companion usually
chooses someone already a Hearld when the current Monarch's Own dies.
What happens to that person's original Companion?  And if the first
Companion was just a 'placeholder', does that Companion KNOW its just a
placeholder. I dont' really ejoy the idea of a 'placeholder' but again
that's just me.

*******

I dont' think Misty's books are written for any age group.  I do think
that 'type's of people respond to them more deeply.  I've also found as
I've changed that different books speak to me more or less than they did
before.  If anything, I think she has a knack for tapping into that
innermost part of us that is the most confused, most in need of assurance,
and most eternally young and hopeful and feeds it with reality based hope.
I cry with the books, I hurt when Vanyel(or Talia or anyone else) hurt,
and I laugh out loud when various Companions take the opportunity to knock
down their Chosen's inflated ego  (Tantris and Kris are freshest in my
memory.)

I love Misty because she makes me feel when I read her books.

********

Finally, some of the abbreviations used confuse me :

IIRC (?)
obMisty (?)
(obligatory Misty?)

***

delurk info: skip it , not important :)

My first Lackey was By the Sword, then Tarma and Kethry books, then LHM,
then the Arrows.  I've read Chrome Circle, Born to Run, Children of the
NIght and the ones with Kory and Eric. I liked them as well. Black Gryphon
was the hardest to read as it felt so dark.

I'm a 22 year old sophomore (a few detours from school) at the University
of Maryland. I work in the Consulting Lab and spend most of my days
answering Dial Up Networking or Config PPP/ Mac PPP questions.  My nights
I spend reading, or at least lately since I"ve entered a 'hermit' like
period of my life.  I"m a Psych major interested in Cognition and Memory.

****
email: haj-+AT+-glue.umd.edu

Thanks :)

Hollie



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:24:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alanna P Hwang <aph200-+AT+-is5.NYU.EDU>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Misty Women
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.961023142014.32024C-100000-+AT+-is5.NYU.EDU>

On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Hth. wrote:

> Hrumph, grumble, grumble.  I don't know about this "role model"
> business.  I sure wouldn't pick Misty women as role models, if I were in
> the market for some.
> 
> I was complaining to someone about this just the other day.  I really
> don't care much for her female characters.  I wouldn't date most of them
> (Diana is the only exception that comes to mind, and Kerowyn on certain
> days, but not for any particularly noble reason), and I really don't
> want to be them.
> 
> They're so serious, so severe.  I like women (and men) who are frivolous
> from time to time.  And no, don't say that it was war, etc.  Most normal
> people can be serious and whimsical in close succession.  The last very
> serious conversation I had was a few weeks ago, as a very dear friend
> was trying to figure out what to do with a girlfriend who is plainly
> very self-destructive and probably dangerous to be around.  Four of us
> (two male, two female, if it matters) were sitting on the floor for
> hours, talking about everything from sex and drugs and co-dependancy to
> how to get Barbara's hair to hold curls without hairspraying it to
> death.  I love it that we all feel comfortable talking about important
> things with each other, and trivial, too.
> 
> It also bothers me that her female characters are usually so asexual.
> It's as though Misty can't imagine people who are busy and important,
> yet still have time for silly things like jokes and sex.  If you have
> time for either of those things, you obviously aren't dedicated enough.
> Many of her women are sexually active -- but not very.  Witness Kethry
> and Kerowyn and Elspeth (maybe -- can't remember if Elspeth was a virgin
> when she met Darkwind or not); Misty makes a point with all of them to
> remind us that they only occasionally have sex, even though Kethry and
> Kero, at least, are mature, attractive women with plenty of choices.
> We've never had a female character -- except Di (yay, Di!) -- who
> actually thinks about sex on a regular basis.
> 
> Problem three.  Most of her female characters are not very warm.  I
> know, I know, that's a traditional female thing, stereotyped and all
> that, but I happen to be a pretty romantic and nurturing person, and I
> don't think that's bad.  Talia is the only one who's portrayed as gentle
> or tender, and she's also portrayed as timid.  Funny thing is, the other
> maternal, compassionate character is Tarma.  I guess Misty didn't feel
> like she had to try so hard with Tarma to prove that she was strong and
> independant.  But it's hard to see Kero or Elspeth or Natoli or Selenay
> or Solaris or Savil as very emotional beings.
> 
> Just my opinion.  But I find her female characters hard to relate to,
> being someone who values humor, sex, and relationships pretty much above
> all.  I think it would be a pretty dank world if all women were like
> Misty's main characters.
> 
> 
> HTH
> r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu
> 
If you want a bit of romance, try Fire Rose.  Most of the time, the women
in the stories don't have much time for relationships, etc...  Kerowyn had
to take care of her mercenaries, fight wars, solve crises.  Elspeth and
Darkwind had their thing while the Heartstone was going beserk and another
major war was about to happen.  Think about it.  If the books were written
during a peaceful time, there would be much to read, granted.  But the
stories would plod on without some adventure and action.  What would Snow
White be without her Wicked Stepmother.  A dame who sees a prince, falls
in love, and marries him.  The female characters are strong and
independent.  I like it that way.  And no, Elspeth wasn't a virgin when
she met Darkwind


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 14:43:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: skarzin-+AT+-soonet.ca (Tony and Michele)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Valdemar Tarot/Discussion Topics
Message-ID: <199610231843.OAA11856-+AT+-victory.soonet.ca>


Greetings All,

To whoever though of the Valdemar Tarot deck, (I'm sorry, I 
don't remember who) what a great idea!  How would you go about
it?  The Major Arcana could be the important characters, Talia,
Elspeth, Solaris(?), etc., but would the suits be something like
Healer, Bard, Herald and the Blues (I can't recall what their title
is), or would Valdemar, Iftel, Rethwellan and Karse, be better?
---------------------------------------------------
Valerie wrote:

>My intention was not to be rude or mean or even just plain NOT NICE.  I simply 
>would like to point out, as you say, that everyone has a right to discuss what 
>they want, provided other parties are willing.  End of statement.  Not having 
>read the FAQ, I don't know the rules, but if they include a list of "not to be 
>discussed topics because all of us "oldies" have done them to death", I'm sure 
>I won't like it.  It is afterall a list for everyone who indicates an interest 
>and desire to communicate about Mercedes Lackey, her world and her characters, 
>how they impact us and is a place to answer questions and discuss topics that 
>may have bothered us.  
>
>Perhaps we should put a "DUMB NEWBIE QUESTION" spoiler to warn you off.  Also 
>- don't correct my spelling.
---------------------------------------------------------
Valerie,
 
Perhaps you might want to read the FAQ before continuing this
discussion.

mail: send mail to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk, with a blank Subject: line, and
      message body:

        get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.1
        get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.2
        get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.3
        get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.4
        get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.5

This will send the FAQ to you, in 5 separate messages.

There are listmembers who pay for each message (or is it byte?)
that they receive.  It seems unfair to expect them to pay for 
messages that they will then have to delete.  It is out of 
consideration for these members that we try to keep our sigs. 
short, and snip the portions of posts that aren't relevant 
to the topic we are addressing.

If you learn that a topic you are interested in has been talked
to death here on the list, perhaps you might discuss it with
other new listmembers who express an interest, off-list.  

Most people who join a mailing list lurk for a while and read 
the FAQ, to get an idea of what the list is like.  It is at 
the very least inconsiderate to expect the listmembers to con-
form to YOUR wishes.  

Nobody likes to receive messages like this, but hey, you can 
always delete.

Michele
  





------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 14:35:40 PDT
From: Lisa Prior <lprior-+AT+-geocities.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: tarot
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.007072696f7220203344353030303030-+AT+-MAPI.to.RFC822>

As a parttime reader of Tarot I just had to add my .02.

Death is not an "evil" card.  It stands for change.  Ma'ar and his other 
incarnations really don't fit here.  He is better for the Devil but that card 
also doen't mean evil, it means deception.  That's how he's prefect for 
the card.

The Shadow lover would work for the card because he/she gives the 
heralds a choice/change when they come to him/her.  I know there 
would be someone else better but I haven't re-read my stuff recently.  
Still packed until I build the library.

Lisa P

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 15:10:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: Clarissa Smith/Claris Boii <ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Congrats/Van/Tarot/Fluff
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961023144215.23745B-100000-+AT+-comp>


Undine wrote:
> Congratulations to Michele and Claris!!!!! Hoo Roo! Kudos to both of you! :)

A) THANKS!

B) Nice Work Michele! <feeling guilty now>

> Claris, when you dress up as Beldandy (sp?), how do you get your hair to 
> do that pouffy antenna thingie that hers does? :)

<Giggle>  Fortunately, my hair's pretty long, and it's kinda the right
color...so I go for the hairdo where she has the two long "wings" of hair
parted around her face, and some of the rest of it pulled up on top.
Adding flowers helps the effect.

> Re Storm Constantine: I really like her short stories but I've never managed
> to make it through her Wraethu (sp?) trilogy. She has a story in a new 
> antho of cat horror stories called _A Twist of the Tale_. 

The Wraethu trilogy is the gendertwisting series...You just have to be in
the right mood.


I LOVE the Tarot idea. And Shadow-Lover would fit as Death...but...doesn't
have the association of radical change or whatever...hrm.  The Star-Eyed
seems distinctly tarot-ish, she ought to fit in somewhere. You *could*
make up the Major Arcana of all deity/legendary/spirit types, and then put
the 'normal' (ha!) characters, i.e., the protagonists and so on, in other
sets.

As for Vanyel:

A)  Stop picking on him!
	;)
	Just kidding...I do love Van, though. He's still one of my five
favorite characters.  I don't WANT to read a book about peppy cheerleader
types! (~\o I'm only happy when it rains.... ~\o) <g>

B)  I found the infamous rape scene heart-rending, OK? And that was the
point, as far as I was concerned. The power equation someone else pointed
out, too. It was not too graphic; at least, for an adult-level book it
was, I'm afraid, rather mild. At any rate, it was *supposed* to shock and
hurt you.

******************************************************************************
  Claris/Clarissa Smith (ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu)  On-campus .sig file    
  Art/History Major	         *   Blow the stars home, Wind,
  Sf/fantasy/graphic artist      *   blow the stars home, 
  GM & game writer               *   Ere morning drowns them with golden foam.
			http://comp.uark.edu/~ccsmith/
******************************************************************************



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:30:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wintershard <peallen-+AT+-naz.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Van's Age/Mprice/characters
Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.95.961023135431.12440C-100000-+AT+-orion.naz.edu>

Going along with the thread of the covers for MPrice and MPawn, can I make
a suggestion as to why he looks younger in the latter? Granted, it may
not be a big effect, but Van is a _very_ strong mage that uses a lot of
node energy. IIRC, he mentioned that using that energy tends to slow down
the aging process, or make them live longer. I would also think that the
cover for MPawn shows him at his worst moment, say when Tylendel(sp?)
died. Then, when he had been using nodes for a while, and had gotten over
the shock of losing Tylendel (for the most part), he may have recouped a
little. (Sure, node magic won't strip _that_ many years from someone, but
it sounded good at first..)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Ever-so-Lovely Lilac Fairy suggested:
<<My major problem with MPrice is it really needed to be two books.>>

Yet the whole theme of the book is about the price that Van (and Stef)
pays for his knowledge of magic, and how he has to do his duties above
anything else. If it were so that he and Stef were able to fully develop
their relationship, then what would you call that part of the book? IMHO,
the image of a strong yet newborn love that is cut so severely in the
early stages is a good part of the theme. It shows how much Van paid for
his abilities, by not being able to enjoy life as much as he undoubtedly
wanted to. And also of how much Stef paid, by having his life-bonded taken
away from him when he had barely met him, then having to cope with that in
the end.

Also the small parts of Randale, Savil, and the other small characters
(compared to Van) that had died, or had some price/pain to pay.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hth wrote:
<<I really don't care for her female characters. I wouldn't date most of
them (Diane is the only exception that comes to mind, and Kerowyn on
certain days, but not for any particularly noble reason)>>

Just curious, but what about Kethry? I thought that she had a good sense
of humor. When she needed to be serious, she was so. But afterwards, she
was back to being a fun-loving person.


Wintershard
God of Subtlety, Discreetness, and Crappy Weather

"Cute, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes."




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 22:51:37 -0700
From: Susan Cass <susanc-+AT+-columbia-center.org>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: border/school from hell :) /1st version re Warrl
Message-ID: <326DB269.3D01-+AT+-columbia-center.org>

Khenta Blaufalk wrote:
> 
> >ObMisty: Has anyone ever found a copy of the *first* version of the
> >Tarma-&-Kethry-meet-Warrl story? The one with the injured mate?
> 
> Which first version? I always thought there was just one version, in
> Oathbound. What did I miss?
> 
> Con cordiali saluti
> 
> Khenta Blaufalk aka Skyfire & Aar
> Goddess of Incomplete Vocabulary and Garbled Grammar


Yeah, do tell!!

-- 
susanc-+AT+-columbia-center.org
Western Oregon, zone 8

Does fuzzy logic tickle?



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 96 17:03:23 -0500
From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: More Tarot
Message-ID: <199610232112.RAA20805-+AT+-sirocco.CC.McGill.CA>

I agree with Cennydd wholeheartedly.  This will be more fun than the casting 
thread.  (well, I only started lurking at the end of it, so I'm a little 
biased)

My $.03 CA (or .02 US) on Tarot characters,

What about Leslac, the bard who followed Tarma & Kethry around and wrote and 
sang "That Song"?  Where would he fit in?  I was thinking maybe the fool ... 
picture this -- Leslac, dressed up in gaudy clothes that he thinks are 
minstrely, playing his lute, and singing "That Song", in the classic one foot 
mid-air, about to step off the cliff pose.
Serves him right!!!!!

Sorry this note is so short, but I have another Physics midterm tonight.

love,
Deniz Sarikaya, soon-to-be |"Beauty is truth, truth beauty,"--that is all
(I hope) Coddess[sic] of   |Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.
Hot Climes, Freaks, and    |                         John Keats
whiiiiiiniiiiiing.           dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:04:10 +0000
From: myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid: CotN/Lifebond/rape/Eldan&Kero/spaceflight/random q's/target
Message-ID: <199610232159.QAA14706-+AT+-cdale3.midwest.net>

Kerry wrote:
>>>Rereading Children of the Night:
- Did anyone notice that Morrie (Di's Agent) was mentioned by someone as
  being their agent at the party/drug scene early in the book?
<snip>
Yup. I think it was Dave.

<snip>
- Now in Jinx High, Di doesn't appear any/much older than college, but she's 
  obviously not a vamp because she's prancing about in daylight.. Is there
  any legendary foundation for regularly donating blood to a vampire, 
  keeping you young? (I can't recall any offhand, but something's nagging
  me about that idea).
<snip>

Dunno, but I think it's a combination of give-and-take and eternal "youth".
What I mean by that is that if you donate, you'll stay young unless you
take some from the vamp. 
<snip>
- Half-way through, Di says something to the effect that Len & Keith are
  both strongly psi, and she & Len both have premonitions/hunches that 
  the four of them are going to be needed to take care of the threat,
  but when it comes to the denouement, both Len & Keith are pretty much
  so much cannon-fodder - more a liability than a help..<<<

That bugged me, too. The speculation I have is that they weren't properly
trained, so Di put a shield on them and relied on them for physical
attacks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cennydd: Did you study modern Japanese or classical Japanese? I'm a native
speaker, and sometimes people who study it as a second language get it
better than us. But you're absolutely right -- it's just commonly said as
the color green. People get lazy. But I *hated* classical Japanese when we
had to do it in Japanese Language School. It was worse than when we had to
read "Romeo and Juliet" during English class. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay, on the discussion of lifebonded pairs, I've picked out a few off the
top of my head that I think are lifebonded:
Talia and Dirk
Selenay and Daren
Van and Tylendel/Stefen
Donni and Mardic
Shavri and Randale
Ylsa and Keren
Keren and Sherrill
Starwind and Moondance
Amberdrake and Winterhart
Skandranon and Zhaneel
Tamsin and Cinnabar

Now, are there any *proof* (as in textevd) that Elspeth and Darkwind are
lifebonded? I thought they were at first, but it looked like Misty changed
her mind halfway through the trilogy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Vanyel's rape scene: It was truly disturbing for me, and I cried a lot.
And it was especially touching that Stefen was able to help him get through
it. I think throughout that whole chapter or two, I was a little teary.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Eldan and Kero: Again, Misty might have changed her mind halfway through
the book after Kero meets Eldan. At first glimpse, it seemed like a
lifebond because of the strong attractions to each other, and the "dreams".
But if Misty says so, it probably isn't a lifebond.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Ramsden wrote:
>>>OBMisty:  Do you think that the Kaled'in barges could be modified to 
go fly upwards into space with air pockets?  Okay, so it is a lame 
OBmisty<<<

No, actually, I don't think it's lame. Airplanes were "modified" to fly
more efficiently, then to fly into space. So I think it's very possible
that in the future, Velgarth could come up with space travel thru magic.
Then, we could have Trek meets Velgarth meets B5 meets aliens from ID4!
<grin> BTW, I went to see ID4 for the THIRD TIME last night. It was still
fabulous, but I don't think Brent Spiner got enough on-screen time...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our Most Gracious and Beloved Listmistress wrote:
>>>Back in the days when the list was young, and I had more time on my hands, I
used to toss out a random question every now and then to keep discussion
going. It seems a bit pointless these days, but I'll try to start again if
people actually want me to.<<<

That sounds like a good idea. I'm running out of discussion topics, and
it's sort of hard to keep on topic sometimes. Can you think of anything
that was a really minor detail in one of the books? 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I was wondering about something: Does anybody know the target age for the
LHM trilogy? I found two of those in the Young Adult section of the
library, and I consider YA to be advanced 12 to late 16. I don't really
think that LHM should be in that section, because it doesn't talk about
"Her boyfriend dumped her for a cheerleader" or some other sort like that.
That's what most of the books there are like, except for Hawkmistress, two
S&S anthos, Arrows, and Watership Down. I cringed when I saw Misty's books
two shelves above R.L. Stine's Fear Street and Goosebumps. What do y'all
think?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's it -- hope it wasn't too long. Bye-bye!

Love, nicely wrapped and with a bow at the top,
Summersong & Spiffy the Cat

Chemistry is evil!!!


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 11:12:20 +1200
From: "Sarah Stock" <sarah-+AT+-paradigm.co.nz>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: B5
Message-ID: <199610232206.LAA18389-+AT+-ftp>

From: Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>

>Nice though it is to see other Babylon 5 fans on the list, let me 
>just make one of those Official Listmistress Pronouncements that you all know 
>and love:
> Anyone posting spoilers for Season 4 episodes will be ripped
> apart by my own personal pack of wyrsa. 
>I should probably generalise that to "spoilers for any episode", actually, 
>since I don't know where the Australian, German (etc) viewers are up 
>to, but that's the most important pronouncement.

Well here in NZ we are at the beginning of season 3.  Just saw Voices 
of Authority.  I will be fairly unimpressed with any spoilers!  BTW 
that goes for lots of things.  I can sort of cope with SB stuff, 
although since I read fast, I know now the entire plot.  Still if I 
was watching for it, I could skip the spoilers easily enough.

 I have been spoiled on other stuff though.  Movies (knowing the entire plot of ID4,
 which really isn't much anyway but still) etc.  Stuff does take a 
while to get down here, and its frustrating when I'm happily reading 
my digests to suddenly end up in a spoiler for a movie I was waiting 
for!

OBMisty:  Do you think Misty needs to have a timeline!  Even MZB who 
says she doesn't worry about books matching has a fairly clear 
timeline.  It allows for lovely touches, like people reading about 
heroes or people we read about it another book.  

Sarah 

The three most dangerous things in the world are an
intelligent person without morals, an armed fool
with a cause, and a bored computer programmer.

Sarah Stock (sarah-+AT+-paradigm.co.nz)
Paradigm Technology Ltd
All disclaimers apply

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:28:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu
To: MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK
Subject: Braids, feathers, beads and other Talaydres hair ornaments
Message-ID: <961023172849.22aed028-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu>

Dax the Eternal crawls out of the Murkdom of RL (tm) and makes an 
appearance.  
(thus  "the Eternal" ).  Having spent more than a week rebuilding the software on 
my computer from the bare hard drive up, I was finally able to skim through all 
the mail and am prepared, nay, armed and ready to toss my pearls before you. 
(better than tossing cookies, eh?)

> RE: Greensleeves (the McKennit version)
>snip
> Of that album, Courtyard Lullaby is the best, hands down.
>No no no! All Souls Night and The Old Ways are the best! In my so humble 
>pinion, ...agree about Greensleeves, though. Awful! However, I must admit it 
>kinda grew on me after awhile . . .

I really love Greensleeves, the catch in her breath as she sings makes me want 
to cry.  And also on music, a brave soul asked:

>>>Out of curiousity: what's wrong with the lyrics to Misty filk?<<<

Cennydd replied scathingly:
>I don't know how to say this in a nice way, so...they're lame.  At least
>all of the lyrics that have ever made it into the Velgarth books (the OBr
>appendix, etc.) are just amazingly banal.  

I don't think that they are meant to be William Shakespeare, In fact Misty makes 
fun of  alot of the songs herself  (like "that song" that Tarma hates so).  After all, 
it would be folk, not filk if it were more seriously done right?  We heard the filk 
songs long before we discovered ML, and it was the songs that made us curious 
as to what else this person wrote, oh, we've never heard any of the Velgarth 
stuff, just Elfquest and MMM.  No, she's not Rush, but a fun listen-to, and she 
makes more sense than TMBG!

Mat asked:
>Has anybody read the Mercedes Lackey book with Piers Anthony "Can I Pay 
>Thee Not in Gold."  Was it good enough to buy?

I really liked it, but then I like Peirs Anthony too, always have.  I also love Chaos 
Magic(tm) aka Wild Magic, and snapped up the demons for my own personal 
DMing world.  Talk about sexual confusion! While we are on the books theme:

Alanna asked:
>Also, has anyone read cast of corbies?  .  Has anyone read
>Lammas Night?  If not, do so.  Not written by Misty, but it's based on 
>poem by her, and it picks up where she left off.  's good stuf.  Anybody
>read Serrated Edge  or Di series?  Or Fire Rose?

Really, liked Cast of Corbies, Loved Lammas Night, except that Misty didn't 
provide her own ending for it.  Love SERRAted edge as everyone on here 
knows, also love Di books.  I liked Wing Commander also and Really liked the 
Bard's tale books, especially Niatachal, reminded me of Drizzt do'Urdan but with 
a sunnier personality.  

Back to Cennydd,
>You know, despite the fact that Misty is purported to live in OK,
>her magestorms don't really seem to be that spectacular.  Frankly, I don't
>recall ever seeing a tornado mentioned in her books, and I can't imagine
>that an Okie would forget that element to a really major storm. =)

That got my attention, so I went and looked up tornados in my handi-dandi 
encyclopedia and according to the annual frequency map, tornados seem to 
mostly occur in flatter, valley-type areas, Mississippi-vally being notable, and 
Australia ranking second to the US.  So, I guess, she doesn't include them much 
because the terrain isn't really right for them, mostly forest and hills.

Lady Silvermoon asked seriously:

>Why does Misty use rape so often?  I think it's to give us a picture of how
>horrible the characters are being treated.  It gives us a deeper picture of
>what they're are going through.  ... I think there was a bit of overkill on that one.

HTH of course said it all again quite well.  I can only add a foot note, perhaps 
she wishes to show the depravity and sheer evilness of the "badguys", the more 
graphic, the more depraved.  In the Paksenarian novels, her rape was only a 
small part of the torture she went through and in Talia as well, the torture seemed 
more important.  I'm losing my thread, uh, I guess crimes, like rape are more 
horrifying in some ways than say murder, after all you can only be killed once 
(unless you're a herald and then you can be reincarnated and killed again) but 
robbery and rape can happen again and again, leaving you forever vulnerable.


Arista asked:
>why didn't someone just set a few guard posts down near the borders?  

David answered:
>Well if you have a small army (the Gaurd) it's more efficient to station
>the units back from the border quite a ways and then put out scouts 
>(the Heralds) all along the frontier to let you know if an incursion has 
>occured. Gets the most use out of a small force.

I thought they had a pretty large army, the Road Guards being only a part.
And they do seem to have border posts, Van had to cross through one on his 
way to find Tashir and again on the way to THE BIG SHOWDOWN.  His sister
was stationed on Tashir's border as well.  Forst Reach became a major training 
post for raw recruits later on as well, as they fought the nasties from the Pelgirs.
I think there are some other instances of this as well, and I could look them up if 
someone wants.  But it is one of the herald's duties to organize resistance while 
they wait for reinforcements to arrive, and last but not least, herald's talents do 
help in a battle (see Selenay in AoQ).

Jeanne Hedge making my head spin:
>What do you think: Companions choose their Herald because the Companion 
>was that Herald in a past life?  (so Cairo was Selenay's previous life, Yfandes
>was Vanyel in a previous life, etc)

Dyana replied:
> I guess something like this could be possible, But wouldn't that mean 
>that two of the same spirit were wandering at the same time?                                      

My thought exactly, it would cause too major a paradox, and how could 'Fandes 
and Vanyel still be existing as seperate spirits now that they're dead?

Which leads to some questions of my own:

Everyone keeps saying that the reincarnated names are similar, so how do you 
explain Stefen-Tylendel?    I mean, Tylandel had a twin named Staven, so that 
would mean that Staven was actually the one who was reincarnated, and we 
know that is not true.  So, maybe they aren't all that similar.

Next, if Companions and Heralds are bonded forever, then why would they be 
reincarnated alone?  Wouldn't that mean that they should take turns who gets to 
the all-knowing horsey this life and who has to be the tormented Herald?  And 
referring to the above, why didn't Tylendel's companion get brought back? Nary 
a word, even after Stefen's death of her waiting around for him?  Because she 
repudiated him?  The other companions seemed to think he was okay in the end, 
they did sound the Death Bell.


Thirdly, I haven't yet read any of the Storms yet, but... could Tantras (the herald), 
who I assume became Tantras (the Companion), be Florian?

Finally, it is established that Ma'ar is Falconsbane.  And it seems to be generally 
believed that Leareth was as well, but IMOHO, Krebain is a more likely canidate 
for that position, it was noted that he had begun to sculpt himself with magics to 
have taloned hands and cat fur or eyes or something.  whereas Leareth was the 
Anti-herald.  But, they can't BOTH be him because Leareth says he has been 
working on his plans since before Elspeth's (the peacemaker's) birth and Krebain 
(see even his name fits better Kre-the sound of a hawk and bain-bane) was killed 
during Vanyel's life time.

Well, that's about it for now (I hear the cheers).  

Dax the Eternal, Lady of the Unicorns and hopeless Goddess of nothing because
the Goddess of Nomenclature has turned into the Goddess of Invisibility.

P.S if this comes out really garbled, please let me know and I'll try to
straighten it out.  Thank you.

------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 898
*********************************