MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 902 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Reply to: SB SPOILER!!! by Rozanna McNeer 2) Reply to: hte Web by Rozanna McNeer 3) Reply to: Tarot by Rozanna McNeer 4) Women (personal, kinda on topic) by "Hth." 5) Yfandes Clarification by "Hth." 6) Re: Velgarth Tarot by skarzin-+AT+-soonet.ca (Tony and Michele) 7) Reply to: Women (personal, kinda on topic) by Rozanna McNeer 8) Brvaes Braiddson Suprised At Petitioners But Coelesces(sp?) by Korendil 9) Re: Yfandes Clarification by Korendil 10) Braid: Sorry/Tylendel and Staven/R.L. Stine/Mature by myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao) 11) filk (Kerowyn's Ride)/SB Spoilers by Mat the Cat in Green 12) Re: Sun and Shadow, QO/ SB SPOILER by jmacjm19-+AT+-vcomm.net (gar&julie mclaughlin) 13) Re: LHM - Homophobia by jmacjm19-+AT+-vcomm.net (gar&julie mclaughlin) 14) Re: CotN/Help by ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au 15) Yet Another Survey by "Hth." 16) RE: LHM - Homophobia by "J & C [27f & 25m] " 17) Re: CotN/Help by Morgana 18) Re: mental magic block/SB by Wintershard 19) Re: mental magic block/SB by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu 20) Re: strong female characters in ML by Ken Hyde 21) cuddles by GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 21:56:38 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: SB SPOILER!!! Message-ID: <199610242156_MC1-B3C-7C0-+AT+-compuserve.com> S B S P O I L E R S P A C E (TM) Just another question - remember the heartsone under Tashir's country (LHM)? The one holding the country together? Do you think the rift has been healed yet? Becuase if it hasn't and all the magic is *gone* (shudder). . . Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 21:59:27 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: hte Web Message-ID: <199610242159_MC1-B40-F28F-+AT+-compuserve.com> in the scene where Vanyel sets up the Web, he says something about how the Companions were there and then they dropped out of the Web. Van himself doesn't run it either - it's linked to the Heartstone in the former mage's training room oh gods SB S P O I L E R Now that there is no *magic* what's gonna happen to the WEB?!?!?!?!? Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 22:04:40 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: Tarot Message-ID: <199610242205_MC1-B53-75EA-+AT+-compuserve.com> Tarma as Justice! -- she has all the positive attributes of the card oh dear, a one-liner, and me without a braid handy. errr... BTW, Misty does have cats -- she has 3, Max, Mutant and Gizmo. And for Cennydd, I offer up (no, not textevd, but a footnote) the location of this info www.dragoncon.org and follow the misty, mark shepard, etc links. one of them has got this info in it Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 21:45:12 CST From: "Hth." To: Subject: Women (personal, kinda on topic) Message-ID: <24OCT96.23493782.0103.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> My strong feeling about a lot of this discussion is that it's a very generational thing. I don't respond well to the career-woman hype partially because (and you may find this hard to believe) I do not remember once, in my entire life, ever being told that I shouldn't have a career, or that marriage was my only possible future. And no, this is not because of my sexuality. How were my family/teachers/whatever going to know about that when I was a kid? Jesus, *I* didn't even know for sure until I was 17 or so. My mom worked, and she loves it. In fact, my mom has *always* worked, unlike my father, who has spent time as a full-time grad student, and unemployed. Dad was the guy who was always home when I got back from school, who picked me up and drove me places, who took me to campus with him and all that kind of child-rearing stuff. Mom was the one who called to say she'd be home late. But both of them were totally affectionate, adoring, terrific parents, and both of them, at one time or another, had to miss the school play or whatever because my mother worked all day and my father had to travel out of town a lot. So they were both constantly trying to work out the balance between jobs they loved and people they loved, and I never saw their experiences as being different because of their gender. I was a bright kid, with bright, highly educated parents, and there was never a question that I would be fully equipped to be a self-sufficient adult. Long before sexual orientation was an issue for me (or before anyone realized it was, I guess), they always talked about marriage and family as an option -- as something that would happen to me or it wouldn't, end of story. I never grew up feeling the way people here have expressed, that women had no value except inasmuch as they were associated with a man, and so I still am not much interested in writers proving that's not true. My attitude is, "Of course it's not true, and the world's round, what of it?" I realize that a lot of people have fought hard with that feeling, those attitudes about gender, and for them, Misty's women must be nice to read about. Very affirming and all. But I feel like the problems I'm more likely to deal with in my life are entirely different. I'm going to have to deal with splitting 24 measely hours in a day between the job that pays my bills, my writing, the friends who've been so much a part of my life for years now, my parents and sister, and trying to date -- eventually, replace that last with wife and, who knows, maybe motherhood. Argh! Makes me tired just thinking about it. And a life like that is full of hard work and compromises and missing out on things you wanted to be there for and never being able to be all things to all people, no matter how much you'd like to be. Which is kinda why I roll my eyes at Misty's characters. They throw their whole lives, their whole beings into the affairs of the outside world, job and country and leadership and so forth. And then we're supposed to believe that love wanders along and moves in, and hey, it's just like before, only happier! It's as though work requires, well, work, but true love is easy, if you just wait around long enough. Which strikes me as really unrealistic, and I'm always thinking, "Must be nice to be fictional. In the real world, babe, you wouldn't get off so easy." How are these characters supposed to be role models for me if they never have the same issues in their lives that I do? My parents are as close to lifebonded (I believe that's the term Misty uses, rather than the more grammatical "lifebound," though I could be misremembering) as normal human beings can be: they've been in love and together their entire adult lives, and for 35 years they've been the most important thing in each other's lives. But even for them, life isn't always easy. There have been difficult times, and disagreements, and years when it seemed like they spent more time apart than they did together. I have to laugh when Misty employs that tired old "love conquors all" schtick. Kerowyn has never in her life had to mesh her life together with someone else's. Is it really going to be easy for her to make the sacrifices and compromises that having a life partner entails, just because she fell in love? Well, Misty sure acts like it will be. Happily ever after. Which, I guess, is fine if you want to say that's it's just a book and it should be happy and fun and all that, but I don't consider it realistic. I snarled when Natoli made her big speech in SRising about how she would never sacrifice her work for Karal, nor should she for her. Yes, I guess in some cases that's true, but what it *ignores* is the fact that if she and Karal want a life together, sooner or later someone is going to have to give up something. The way to have an equal relationship is to trade off on who has to make sacrifices, not never to make them. When I see an author using love and marriage and relationships as though they were simple and pleasant and cute, I worry that people are going to start believing it. I know people who are already getting divorces, sometimes not even out of college, and they're all saying: "It was so *hard.* I thought it would be fun; I had no idea it would be this hard." Guess what? It's hard. You have to work to find love, and you have to work four times as hard to keep it. Unless you're in a Misty book. That's why I disapprove of authors who act as though relationships are nothing but the happy reward of a life well lived. For most of us, they're something you have to work with, and they're as important to us as any other part of our lives. That's a lot of why I have such a hard time relating to Misty characters. I like them, by and large, but I don't *relate,* except to, really, Stef and Firesong. Check it out: two characters who DO work as hard on the personal parts of their lives as they do on professional matters. That's a lot more me. I feel like they're much more genuine human beings because of that, and I wish for more female characters who are real in the same way. We still don't have a lot of realistic depictions of women as emotional beings in this world. For most women I know, relationships are important in their lives, but not the end-all and be-all of their existence. Most women fall somewhere in the middle of the Independant Warrior Woman and the Princess in the Tower. Most of us feel like both on alternate Wednesdays Ah, well, I guess that's another one of those reasons I write -- 'cause no one else does it quite to my satisfaction Boy, those of you who know me from this list will be able to grin knowingly when my books begin to come out (knock on wood). The intellectual, vain, rather bitchy sorceress who's busy trying to take over the world, raise a daughter, and have time left over for her girlfriend...none of *you* all are going to recognize Lila, are you? HTH r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 21:54:08 CST From: "Hth." To: Subject: Yfandes Clarification Message-ID: <24OCT96.23654553.0103.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> Kory, that was my point. The quote was, "I have trouble relating to characters with less sex drive than Vanyel's Companion." Translated, Yfandes has *more* sex drive than the human females, whom you never see flirting, planning a seduction, getting dressed up to impress anyone, or making suggestive remarks like the infamous Nose Comment. All of which Yfandes does. Apparently you have to be dead, or a horse, before you get permission to flirt in a war zone. Or maybe you just have to be in the LHM series, which is, for this reason among so many others SO MUCH COOLER THAN THE OTHERS. HTH r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:28:12 -0400 (EDT) From: skarzin-+AT+-soonet.ca (Tony and Michele) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Velgarth Tarot Message-ID: <199610250328.XAA19743-+AT+-victory.soonet.ca> On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 Cennydd wrote: I thought Skif would be a good choice (for the Fool) I strongly disagree with Solaris as the Hight Priestess. She is quite >definitely a better choice for the Heirophant. > >As for Talia and Dirk as the Lovers, I only know of one tarot that has the >Lovers representing choice. >However, I think that perhaps, all that being said, the card should also >include Kris. >Anyway, those are some thoughts. Comments? disagreements? stunned >worship? =) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Stunned worship oh puh-leeze! But seriously folks, if you can come to an agreement about who should be represented on each card of the Major Arcana, I'll volunteer to design them, unless of course, someone else has already done so. Please fill in the Misty character, place or symbol that you feel would best represent the card, and the one that gets the most votes within a one week period, wins. The Fool: The Magician: The High Priestess: The Empress: The Emperor: The Hierophant: The Lovers: The Chariot: Justice: The Hermit: The Wheel of Fortune: (Pat and Vanna?) Strength: The Hanged Man: Death: Temperance: The Devil: The Tower Struck by Lightening (or) The House of God: The Star: The Moon: The Sun: Judgement: The World: I will also need to know which suits I should use for the Lesser Arcana. I'm assuming that if these cards are designed without any intention to market them, and without using the artwork of either Jody Lee or Larry Dixon, there should be no problems. If this is not the case, please let me know. Regards, Michele ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:12:58 -0400 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: Women (personal, kinda on topic) Message-ID: <199610242313_MC1-B57-3CA1-+AT+-compuserve.com> As mat would say "yeah, what Heather said" My rearing was much the same as yours, heather. My mother worked, my father was often unemployed (by choice). She divorced him when I was six and remarried a few years later. My eldest brother, who is eleven years older than I, had the raising of me, but that was mostly becuase he chose to rival Mom as parent, rather than me as baby. (I was even taken on his dates with him. he always said 'date me, date my little sister.') I too was never told I couldn't have a career, had to get married, etc. I was raised so gender-neutral that I didn't even have any girl friends until I was 13 or so simply because I couldn't relate to them at all. I wasn't taught the cute-n-cuddly game, I never dressed up for the first day of school, or wore dresses if I could help it. I frequently went to school with my hair uncombed. Needless to say, it was very hard to relate to girls that had been taught the cute-n-cuddly game. I tried to. But they shunned me because they couldn't relate to ~me~, and they didn't even try. Yes, it was very lonely. The girls wouldn't be friends, and very few of the boys would be because not only could I run faster than them (very important when you're 8, I guess) but I was a girl and had cooties. My mother once remarked that I would make some man a fine mistress (seems neutral re: my getting married, no?) Misty's female charcters. :head shaking: I like Kero the most. I can relate to Elspeth since I can be pretty blunt (read 'bit*hy') too. But their love lives? Talia and Kris' relationship seems to be the only one that I would accept - provided I had to have a realtionship out of Misty's books - the rest :shrug: just an aversion, I guess Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 23:19:16 -0400 From: Korendil To: "Misty List" Subject: Brvaes Braiddson Suprised At Petitioners But Coelesces(sp?) Message-ID: <9610250324.AA22569-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> OK. Over the past couple of hours several people have asked me to apologize to Val... I'm sorry, Valerie Sanford, if I have acted irrationally concerning you. I felt I wasn't acting out of line, but according to others, whose judgements I trust, I am. I suppose I just sorta bristled at your posts...so I;m sorry. I didn't really think I was lashing out at you, but I could very well have been suffering from acute flame-rush. I had, for some reason, assumed the faq was sent to subscribers when they, well subscribed. That point has been cleared up with me now, though. Common sense, too, can't be really measured, since everyone has different views of what's right and wrong or such. I know well enough that I've been misjudging a lot, both, it seems, here and irl. ObMisty: Umm...umm...how did misty meet larry? -+AT+-LIDNEROK________________________________________________KORENDIL-+AT+- I|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High|I C|Court, Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan, |C U|God of All Things Nocturnal, Ailurophile, and #Macintosh Op. |U BED.NET____________________________________________________TEN.DEB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 23:23:19 -0400 From: Korendil To: Subject: Re: Yfandes Clarification Message-ID: <9610250328.AA22599-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> >Kory, that was my point. The quote was, "I have trouble relating to >characters with less sex drive than Vanyel's Companion." Translated, >Yfandes has *more* sex drive than the human females, whom you never see >flirting, planning a seduction, getting dressed up to impress anyone, or >making suggestive remarks like the infamous Nose Comment. All of which >Yfandes does. Apparently you have to be dead, or a horse, before you >get permission to flirt in a war zone. Or maybe you just have to be in >the LHM series, which is, for this reason among so many others SO MUCH >COOLER THAN THE OTHERS. OOOOOOOOO....I thought you meant that like : yfandes has next to no sex drive, and misty's females have even LESS!"...yeah. LHM is her best. Which sorta doesn't make sense, since it isn't new, it isn't even her oldest stuff...just sorta after she was writing for awhiles, but not so long that she was swamped with contracts. LHM, imo, was one of her hand-crafted tales..that she seriously spent time on...even, especially so, the filk stands for that. Someone should chart how much misty books went down after she stopped writing filk (which must be considered BTS, since she wrote Kero's Ride for that).... -+AT+-LIDNEROK________________________________________________KORENDIL-+AT+- I|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High|I C|Court, Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan, |C U|God of All Things Nocturnal, Ailurophile, and #Macintosh Op. |U BED.NET____________________________________________________TEN.DEB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:17:43 +0000 From: myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid: Sorry/Tylendel and Staven/R.L. Stine/Mature Message-ID: <199610250412.XAA03504-+AT+-cdale3.midwest.net> I'm sorry if I spoiled any movies, books, TV shows, etc., on the list. I shouldn't have assumed that some of y'all haven't seen this movie or that, or haven't seen an episode of your favorite shows and would *not* like to be spoiled. I apologize for this screw-up, and I'll try to be more careful from now on. Now, all the formalities aside... Dax wrote: >>>Everyone keeps saying that the reincarnated names are similar, so how do you explain Stefen-Tylendel? I mean, Tylandel had a twin named Staven, so that would mean that Staven was actually the one who was reincarnated, and we know that is not true. So, maybe they aren't all that similar.<<< Whoa! I just had a tres fabu insight: Maybe Tylendel and Staven were a soul split into two bodies. That would explain the "twin bond" that they had, and how 'Lendel felt it when Staven died. Then, in Stefen, both of them reincarnated as *one* spirit. Only since 'Lendel had that lifebond with Van, Van recognized only 'Lendel reincarnated into Stefen. Thanks, Dax -- you just made me think for the first time in a few years. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On R.L. Stine: Just how many people on this list absolutely despised R.L. Stine's books? I mean, same plot, basically same characters with different names, and I can't keep the plots straight because they're pretty much the same. I think his books is past mind-candy -- it's more like school lunch. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Teleute wrote: >>>About target age for Misty books: I found an old SFBC catalog (from b/f I was forced to quit the club due to an unfortunate misunderstanding b/t me and the shipping department over a change of adress) that contained the Misty books. LHM trilogy contains a "For Mature Readers" warning that none of the rest of her books have. I always wondered about that, b/c I don't see LHM as having more adult content than any of the other books (unless it was the rape scene, but other Misty books have dealt with that topic.)<<< My buds and I think it's the gay character content and all that talk about sheep . But seriously, there are some young readers of SF/F whose parents wouldn't let them read those kinds of books. And those parents tend to snoop a lot. But nevertheless, I found those books in the YA section -- howdyfigure? And the rape scene was more graphic than in Arrows, IIRC. People around here think being gay is a sin, which, of course, isn't. I just don't get those people. A few years ago, there was a HUGE controversy in the Country Music industry with Garth Brooks' song "We Shall Be Free." There was a line in there that said "When we're free to love anyone we choose." Every Christian fanatic called a foul on his part, Country stations quit playing those songs, and it was just a huge mess. And it's such a great song, too. But my point is that I think it's the gay character of Van & Tylendel/Stefen. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On Sunsinger & Shadowdancer: In LHM, Savil clearly states that there were, in fact, two Heralds named Sunsinger and Shadowdancer, who were under a curse. So I don't think it's something subtle. But I caught that, too. Maybe Misty was going to use it as a song about Vkandis and the Star-Eyed, but she decided "Nah, the song should be about HERALDS!" and didn't bother to change it to that form. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'm DONE!!! BYE! Lotsa love and everything else, Summersong &Spiffy the Cat <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Akiko Hirao "It wouldn't do to have omnipotent beings running around in the universe!" -- Q from ST:TNG "True Q" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 00:26:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat the Cat in Green To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list Subject: filk (Kerowyn's Ride)/SB Spoilers Message-ID: > From: Korendil > Someone should chart how much misty books went down after she stopped > writing filk (which must be considered BTS, since she wrote Kero's Ride > for that).... I don't know about that Kory.... Kerowyn's Ride is with the songs in the back of AFall. I think I heard that Kero's Ride was supposed to be on HH&H, but got cut. Odd, since it's the only song in the back of AFall that's *not* on the album. Hmm, I just checked, and Obound and AFall both came out in 1988. So, Misty probably just had this nifty idea to have a song about Kethry's grandaughter (not to mention Threes -- tho the S&S stories were out prior to Obound), and just decided to leave it (or just didn't get to it) until later. =========================================================================== > From: Rozanna McNeer > > S > B > > S > P > O > I > L > E > R > > S > P > A > C > E > > (TM) > > Just another question - remember the heartsone under Tashir's country (LHM)? > The one holding the country together? Do you think the rift has been healed > yet? Becuase if it hasn't and all the magic is *gone* (shudder). . . I think that Misty just plain forgot about Baires/Linneas. After all, other than LHM, we never hear about them again. In fact, we never hear of any major Valdemaran cities other than Haven. What happened to Highjorune and Qorthes? > Now that there is no *magic* what's gonna happen to the WEB?!?!?!?!? Hmm, intersting thought. Maybe the Companions will sustain it (and the new Herald-Mages) until there's more power available. Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"The blue rose, rare, one cannot Adept, and God of Procrastination| gain, if glove or guard be worn. Heathen #??? | 'Tis only when, one risks the pain, mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | of flesh against the thorn." http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/| - Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 00:46:49 -0400 From: jmacjm19-+AT+-vcomm.net (gar&julie mclaughlin) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sun and Shadow, QO/ SB SPOILER Message-ID: >On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Emily L Cartier wrote: Kaatje said: > >Go Alice! Now that's an interesting line of thought! I know that >Sunsinger and Shadowdancer were supposed to be Heralds, but I think >Alice's point here about the Star-Eyed and the Sunlord is a fantastic >idea. In the beginning, Misty may not have intended it to come out that >way, but it sure sounds darn likely--maybe a subconscious thing? > IIRC, Sun and Shadow were heralds, they rescued the first prince of Valdemar (Baron Valdemar's son) When he and his companion were captured (Which is why the emblem of Valdemar is a companion with broken chains). I was thinking at first that since we have never heard the full story of Sun and Shadow except for the part of the curse, perhaps the way the curse was lifted was by becoming Vkandis and the STar-eyed, but that is impossible because the god/dess came first. Oh well, it was an intresting idea. I think it probably was subconscious on Misty's part. She probably just liked the idea. -------------------------------- Because I have noticed alot of people here wondering about Queen's Own, I'd like to make this announcement to those people who might not know this: (Taken off the Valdemar Heartstone page) You can now get in touch with Queen's Own through email. If anyone would like to ask Herald Housemother Judith Lovvis of QO anythink about Offical QO business (joining, persona's, etc.) to please send the email to annes3832-+AT+-aol.com with the subject line **FOR JUDITH**. The email will be printed out and sent to her on a bi-weekly basis and she can answer it from there. (so know we know!) -------------------------------- s p o i l e r Dyana said: >If, at the end of storm breaking, all the power is no longer nodes and >ley lines concentrated, what does that mean for Velgarth? If the >existing power is natural, then the land should be okay, but if it's not >then the entire world would be one big Peligirs. If the power is >natural then there would no longer be any use for the Hawkbrothers to >purify the land because the rouge power they were purifying would have >already been changed. That a really good question, but I think there is still a need for them, even if all the magic is "natural" again. The pelagirs still have all those wierd creatures in them. I think. My question is, what happened to those magical creatures? Did they just go "poof"? Or are they still around? And did the last magic storm do anything to them that may have changed them? And what about those people who got turned into boggles? Wouldnt "fixing" them be part of a healer adepts job? Ok. thats it. Wind to thy wings! Julie (hopes to be) Goddess of Fields and Fens (Gee, is Lady Tressa ever coming back?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 01:18:39 -0400 From: jmacjm19-+AT+-vcomm.net (gar&julie mclaughlin) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM - Homophobia Message-ID: >Teleute wrote: >>>>About target age for Misty books: >I found an old SFBC catalog (from b/f I was forced to quit the club due to >an unfortunate misunderstanding b/t me and the shipping department over a >change of adress) that contained the Misty books. LHM trilogy contains a >"For Mature Readers" warning that none of the rest of her books have. I >always wondered about that, b/c I don't see LHM as having more adult >content than any of the other books (unless it was the rape scene, but >other Misty books have dealt with that topic.)<<< Then Akiko said: >My buds and I think it's the gay character content and all that talk about >sheep . But seriously, there are some young readers of SF/F whose >parents wouldn't let them read those kinds of books. And those parents tend >to snoop a lot. But nevertheless, I found those books in the YA section -- >howdyfigure? And the rape scene was more graphic than in Arrows, IIRC. >People around here think being gay is a sin, which, of course, isn't. I >just don't get those people. It is the gay thing. Homophobia is alive and well in this society. I donated several Misty books to the local High school recently, all of which had to be approved by the PTA before they were put on the shelves. The Herald of Valdemar series when off with out a hitch. So did V&H. But when they got to the LHM series, you should have heard the screams! I was accused of "trying to poison young childrens minds, forcing them to turn away from god and live in the most horrible sin" and "telling them that such disgusting behavior is ok and is normal and by telling them this I was contributing to the rise in crime and child molestation and the downfall of societies morals". Needless to say, I told them off, which has made me something of an outcast here, but thats Ok. I simply cant beleive that people can be so stupid. And Hypocritical. They say they want their children to be tolerant of others, but they teach hatred and discrimination. It also has forced me to think about just what the people are TEACHING our kids in school, a thought that now has me seriously frightened. I'm really not sure I want my children being round people who are so violently closed-minded. Heck, my aunt is a NUN and she's not that closed-minded! For the record, those books ended up at the local library, in the YA section. I asked the librarian about it and she said "Its listed as YA, so thats where I'm putting it. This library does not believe in censorship." Glad someone in this community agrees with me! Julie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 08:05:24 GMT From: ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: CotN/Help Message-ID: <199610250805.IAA06331-+AT+-enterprise.powerup.com.au> >On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 KayCeeFour-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > >> Regarding diefication (sp?), I personally don't want to be a god, but what >> are the restrictions on becoming a priest of this pantheon? I mean being a >> god is all well and good, but every god needs followers, right? How about it >> Lady Thess, can I be a priest and start collecting tithes? > Cennydd replied: >Well, actually, I don't think it has exactly come up before, but you >wouldn't apply to Lady Thess (unless you want to be her priest). You need >to apply to the particular god or gods that you wish to worship/serve. >Might I just take a moment to point out, btw, that as God of Karma, I >offer the best retirement plan in the pantheon. Think about it! > Could we have a listing of the current gods and goddeses to find out who it is that we may be serving without realising it? Thanks, Adrianne ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'Laugh for me. Joy is in the ears that hear.' Foamfollower, First Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, The Unbeliever ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 04:14:53 CST From: "Hth." To: Subject: Yet Another Survey Message-ID: <25OCT96.04588043.0041.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> Some of our discussions have made me curious about the subject of what kind of people are interested in fantasy fiction, and this is the closest thing to a representative sample I have. SO.... Endeavouring to make this as simple as possible. Anyone out there who knows her or his Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (those four letter codes, INFP, ESTJ, and combinations thereof), would you please *e-mail me privately* with that information? Include your gender if you would, please. There may be interesting things to be found there, too. Thank you kindly for your cooperation, or your polite lack thereof, whichever. HTH r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 96 05:36:13 UT From: "J & C [27f & 25m] " To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: LHM - Homophobia Message-ID: For the record, those books ended up at the local library, in the YA section. I asked the librarian about it and she said "Its listed as YA, so thats where I'm putting it. This library does not believe in censorship." Glad someone in this community agrees with me! I work at a public library in Arkansas. They do not believe in censorship also, but as a tax supported institution they need all the help they can get from their patrons. I donate a lot of books to the library. I have donated several Misty books which have encouraged more people to request her books. Acquistions is now immediately buying her new books to add to the collection. The more requests libraries receive for authors the more likely they are to be bought. Laserhawk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 07:16:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Morgana To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: CotN/Help Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Oct 1996 ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au wrote: > > Could we have a listing of the current gods and goddeses to find out who it > is that we may be serving without realising it? > Well, I'm around. :) OH, if anyone has been sending me any private email for the past week, and I haven't responded. Resend. Mad deleting here. :) Also please forgive this poor goddess for remaining unseen. I am just paying a tithe to my own self be true... Sorry. Also. I'm moved! Whee!!! The goddess of things unseen now has her own place and is freezing. Yippp! Oh... obmisty. Okay. Oh bout since moving I found my Lark and Wren, and fell in love with it again? :) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 'Laugh for me. Joy is in the ears that hear.' > Foamfollower, First Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, The Unbeliever > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------> I love these books, and the giants in particular. :) Morgana, Goddess of Things Unseen and depressed student of the hectic lifestyle ** Except for the boy in the belfry he's crazy, he's throwing himself down from the top of the tower like a hunchback in heaven He's ringing the bells in the church for the last half an hour. He sounds like he's missing something or someone that he knows he can't have now, and if he isn't I certainly am. ** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 17:43:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Wintershard To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mental magic block/SB Message-ID: Dyana wrote: <> IIRC, in MPrice, Van sets it up so that those verdi (sp?) that do truth spells also watch over mages. It's kinda like a constant tap on the shoulder that someone is watching you. When Van died, there were no other mages in Valdemar, so no one else noticed the verdi. And when a mage would try to enter, he would go crazy from that watched feeling, like in BTS with the 'Bolts company mages. Since no other mages would enter, any potential mages in Valdemar went untrained, so they never noticed the verdi. Wintershard (hoping to be)God of Subtlety, Discreetness, and Crappy Weather 'Tis by chance we met, by choice we became friends. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:21:55 -0500 (CDT) From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mental magic block/SB Message-ID: <199610251521.AA241876915-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu> > IIRC, in MPrice, Van sets it up so that those verdi (sp?) that do truth > spells also watch over mages. It's kinda like a constant tap on the > shoulder that someone is watching you. When Van died, there were no other > mages in Valdemar, so no one else noticed the verdi. And when a mage would > try to enter, he would go crazy from that watched feeling, like in BTS > with the 'Bolts company mages. Since no other mages would enter, any > potential mages in Valdemar went untrained, so they never noticed the > verdi. In WoFury, I think Van says something about the Vrondi and/or the spell to watch for mages staying around (like 700 years) longer than he had intended, and that by the time Elspeth and her party weould reach Haven, the spell would be coming down. This explains why mages couldn't enter Valdemar or stay within its borders for very long. Nina ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 11:36:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: strong female characters in ML Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Kathy Covert wrote: > In much mainstream literature and classic fantasy/science fiction, women > are defined by their relationships more than by what they do. And in all > too many fantasy novels, their role in the plot is to be the sexual prize > for killing the dragon/giant ape/alien/battlestation. So I, for one, think > it is refreshing that ML *underplays* the role of sex and cuddles and puts > more emphasis on the external accomplishments. Maybe it was refreshing in the early 80's when the situation was so bad for female characters in fantasy that MZB started the S&S series for the express purpose of fostering a different model of female protagonist. I would agree with MZB, however, in saying that the "strong" (manlike) woman is no longer sufficient. The world of fantasy has changed enough that Misty's women are no longer pioneers, they are problematic. This is one of the things that happens in many social movements: the first generation of the movement pushes things in a certain direction (usually a semi-assimilation to the dominant social group). This creates a position of "strength" from which the second generation can push for a more radical re-evaluation of the system. But generally, you end up with the assimilated first-gen people, who are part of the system that the second-gen people are fighting to change. This is very clear in current Feminism and Queer Rights. There is a definite generation gap. I think that Misty is still writing first-gen female protaganists, while as readers, many of us have come to expect second-gen. We want to see a redefinition of the roles, not a woman who is "as good as any man" (which implies that "man"=good, btw). Despite the fact that Tarma and Keth were startling new and revolutionary when they first appeared in S&SIII, I don't think that Kero or Elspeth show much of a change from the same model. And while, in 1986 (or near that), T&K were able to avoid the "Beowulf in drag" stigma (tokenism), Elspeth and Kero seem now to be perilously close to it in their assimilation. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Mage of the Green Silences. Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me **http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:37:02 -0500 (CDT) From: GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu To: MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK Subject: cuddles Message-ID: <961025103702.22ad9b62-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu> Sorry this is a bit late in the thread, my mailer was down yesterday. I've gone and done it again! :embarrased blush: I can't remember who said this: >Ijust think that there isn't very much affection >in the books, with either male or female charcters >(I don't know, as I've only read a few of the books, >but it's what it appears to me) And by affectionate >I just mean hugs and such between friends as well as >lovers. I realize that they are saving the world and >all that, but nobody ever says "You know, I could >really use a hug", Maybe you don't read someone actually saying they need a hug, but there are actually quite a few affectionate moments, they just tend to be actions rather than words. Examples include: Tantras loaning clothes to Van on several occaissons Tantras waking Van up in the tub and making sure he has food and drink Van and Tylendel had Many affectionate moments that weren't just sexual, sitting together reading history asking Van to play for him, talking in the grove Lissa hugging Van on several occaissions (can you tell I just got done re-reading LHM?) Moondance kissing Van on the forehead Kris giving Talia a ring and flowers on her birthday Talia holding Elspeth and letting her cry Many more I could name, but you get the idea. See, lots of affection! Dax the Eternal, Lady of the Unicorns -Imagination is more important than knowledge-Einstein ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 902 *********************************