MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 908

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) ADMIN: oops!
	by Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
  2) to chose or not to chose?
	by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl
  3) Re:Van's grandad/handfasting
	by Rose <prose-+AT+-ctol.net>
  4) Plait: High Priestess of
	by dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
  5) Re: handfasting?
	by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
  6) Re: ADMIN: oops!
	by khu286-+AT+-merle.acns.nwu.edu (Kay Huang Perry)
  7) Re: handfasting?
	by Tensen <tensen-+AT+-crow.cybercomm.net>
  8) handfasting
	by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
  9) Re: High Priestess of Procrastination
	by Ailsa Reid <areid-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk>
 10) Kero & Quotes/Vikteren
	by Renee Mic Markowicz <04613-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
 11) Re: Reply to: High Priestess of Procrastination
	by Ken Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
 12) hello?
	by Ailsa Reid <areid-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk>
 13) Parenting-30's/fluff
	by davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker)
 14) More on Misty's women
	by Lynne Markova <lynne-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>
 15) Re: handfasting?
	by Jefferson or Rain <macstager-+AT+-earthlink.net>
 16) names/Myst books/levinbolts/Octarine Gryphon/J/SR&SB
	by Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
 17) Another member of the pride...
	by Nicole Dubuc <nicole.dubuc-+AT+-yale.edu>
 18) Re: Vanyel's Times: Amberdrake
	by kaychang-+AT+-eden.com (CrystalSkye)
 19) Re: WoFury and Ashkevrons
	by kaychang-+AT+-eden.com (CrystalSkye)
 20) Candlemarks and frogs
	by Soljan-+AT+-aol.com
 21) Re: fluff/gods
	by Selkie <k95cm02-+AT+-kzoo.edu>
 22) Reply to: frogs
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
 23) Re: Candlemarks and frogs
	by Nicole Dubuc <nicole.dubuc-+AT+-yale.edu>
 24) Briefly delurking on candlemarks, frogs, generations,etc
	by "AMY E. BAUER" <baueramy-+AT+-zebu.cvm.msu.edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 10:09:56 GMT
From: Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
To: mercedes-lackey
Subject: ADMIN: oops!
Message-ID: <199610291009.KAA06600-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>

Your beloved listmistress was so busy trying to figure out precisely _why_
Vanyel took it into his silicon head to crash yesterday afternoon, that she
forgot to restart Listproc. It is now restarted, so you should all be back to
your customary flooded inboxes ...

Mel

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 14:00:20 +0100
From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: to chose or not to chose?
Message-ID: <9610291300.AA14690-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl>

Someone wrote (sorry - I'm using Kory's mail, and he didn't attribute ..)
>>On another note--it must be incredibly frustrating to be highborn/noble in
>>Valdemar. Here you are from a "good family"--which is obviously important
>>in Valdemar and very important in every other country we've seen in Misty's
>>Velgarth--but, no matter how blue-blooded you are, how diligently you serve
>>your country, how brave you are in battle....you will never be among the
>>elect, the inner circle, if a stupid white horse didn't Choose you. And how
>>frustrating to be the unChosen child of the Monarch! What happens to you?

and Kory replied:
> Well, I think we'd find it hard to empathize (sp?) with a character such 
> as that, since if the heir/aristocrat *was* such a good person, they'd 
> simply be chosen anyway, like Elspeth and Jeri and Kris et al...

Ah c'mon - there must be plenty of decent, honest, hard working sorts around,
who weren't exactly Herald material, but whose contributions mattered, and I
agree, it would have been tough when young whipper-snappers with dubious back-
grounds (eg Skiff, Naeve <sp??>) suddenly ranked you. 
I can also see being chosen or not becoming a major deal among royal siblings -
especially if the eldest isn't chosen for some reason, and some younger sib is.
Imagine the mutterings, the assumptions, "well, I always knew he wasn't quite
up to it, had my suspicions since he was born" etc etc etc. Unless you had some
mighty supportive parents you could end up nurturing an almighty chip on your
shoulder, deeply resentful, miserable ........ and still be a totally decent
person, just an unchosen one. There are hints of this with Natolie - I know
she's a together young thing, but I recall from Storm1 that there's some 
suggestion of resentment, or something??
Kory then continued:

> Blah....that's child's play...I read my history FOR THE FIRST TIME an 
> hour before the tests and get A's, NEVER do english stuff until the night 
> last thursday or some other science stuff from last quarter! Of course, 
> I'm not in the running since I'm already a god, buuuuut....

All I'd say here is "Watch it" I went through 3 years of Astrophysics with a
guy like you, cruised it all, got good marks, never raised a sweat ,
wrote his assignments on the tube coming into college in the mornings, - he 
*scraped* through at finals, got about 40%. He had a job lined up depending 
on the 80%+ he'd assumed he'd get, and was mighty shaken. First time it
hadn't worked out OK. 

ciao ciao,
Esmeralda

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 08:09:42 -0500
From: Rose <prose-+AT+-ctol.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re:Van's grandad/handfasting
Message-ID: <32760216.31CA-+AT+-ctol.net>

Emily said
>Does anyone else think that that long-dead ancestor might be Vanyel's 
>grandfather Joserlin? 

When I read that passage, That's exactly who came to mind because I 
remember Vanyel climbing and hiding away from his arms lessons in the 
hidden room, and the mention of a staircase that came out in a linnen 
closet.

Disney said
>I'm a little confused about the concept of handfasting.  In the Arrows
>books, they make references to the 'year and day handfasting'.  What 
>exactly does that mean? Do they actually fast for a year and a day?  
>That's a long time to actually fast.

I think handfasting is something akin to being engaged. No actual 
complete fasting. But a year and a day to figure out if they truly want 
to spend the rest of their lives together and so noone can get married 
on the spur of the moment at the Velgarth equilivalent of Vegas.
                                  Dyana

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 10:06:51 -0500
From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Plait: High Priestess of
Message-ID: <199610291517.KAA12408-+AT+-sirocco.CC.McGill.CA>

Mat the un-Flat Kitty Kat said:

>>I think Firemist has gotten to everyone.  MistyWisty, you'll pay for this!
<g>>>

She might have triggered me, but I now self-consciously look for every tool I 
can find to better my enjoyment derived from worshipping you.  Your High 
Priestesses must set good examples, after all.

>>[boom of thunder, light from the heavens shine upon Deniz and Renee]
Thou have been Chosen, My daughters, to be the High Priestesses of
Procrastination.  I bestow upon you both the ability to procrastinate
all you wish, and to always finish your task directly before it is due.
Use this power well, and in My Name.
[boom of thunder] <<

OOOOOooooohhhh, booms of thunder!!!!!<----- (Did 'ya guess how many?)
I like. :^>

and Renee, High Priestess of Procrastination, said:
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ <-----------(Yay!)

>>Thank you, oh thank you most holy and revered ones!  I shall certainly
strive to be faithful to the priest/esshood in everything I do!  (Did I
mention the article I had to read for biology class?  I read it 20 minutes
prior to the discussion.  :)   ) <<

Oooh, boy!  I'm so happy!  That reminds me.  I have that Physics Lab due in 7 
hours, and it'll take me 6 hours to write it.  I guess it's time to eat 
breakfast.

>>BTW, I've been into Misty for a while now.  I've read her Velgarth, Sacred
Ground, and Diana Tregarde books.  I never read her Lark and the Wren
books.  Are they any good?  I've been wondering.<<

YESYESYESYESYES!!!!!  GETTHEMGETTHEMGETTHEMGTETTHEMGETTHEM!!!!!(holy tongue 
and finger twister)  Also, I like the Eric the Bard Books (Knight of Ghosts 
and Shadows and Summoned to Tourney) a lot, too, but that might be because I'm 
such a music FREAK!!!!!

>>Zhai'helleva,  <--(am I spelling that right?  Every time I type it, it
                   looks wrong for some reason...)<<
Looks fine to me!
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Lisa Prior said [Re: Logres]:
>>Sounds a lot like Calahan's Crosstime Saloon by Spider Robinson.<<

Yeah, but I don't remember it being a mages-only hangout.  I'm trying not to 
spoil it, but the only people I can think of who were "out of the ordinary" 
that way were the twins, and they were psi's.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Teleute said:
>>(i'm not morbid. black is a perfectly legitimate favorite color. honestly.<<

With a user name like Teleute, if you always wore white, I would seriously 
question your understanding of Gaiman.  And Death.  Not that she wouldn't get 
a kick out of it, well, she get's a kick out of everything, that's why she's 
so awesome, but, well, you can see why I'm not surprised you always wear 
black.  Do you also have a cool silver ankh?  Anyway, I don't have a book, but 
here's a paraphrase:
<snort> "You want me to wear one of those oh-shoot-me-now outfits?"
############################################
Lady Becky said:
>>	How many of you saw Voyager the other night? You know, the one 
with Q, and the Q who wanted to kill himself? Remember the part where 
they are in the continuem (sp?) and he says noone talks because there is 
nothing to talk about, it's all already been said? That reminded me of 
the list, and the thing about frequently discussed topics (FDT's), and I 
thought, I don't want that to happen here, who cares how many times we<<
<snip continuation>

Yeah, I saw that ep last spring.  It sure was a dull place.  I almost thought 
that had happened last night, but then I found all this mail this morning 
along with an explanatory note from Auntie Mel... but seriously, I might not 
be old, but I do think it would be a Hell of a ton more interesting to rehash 
old topics and perhaps gain new insights on them than to act like we have this 
big huge checklist, and each time we discuss something, it gets checked off 
and dissapears from the list forever.  That idea disturbs me, (I'm a P, 
obviously), and it is an extreme, but still.  Let's just let things go the way 
they will, and flow with it.  However, I do agree that a big dam should be put 
up whenever the questions like "Are Companions really re-born Heralds?" come 
up.  Ahem.  That's all for now.
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
jen (I think, or is it Disneyworld?) said:
>>I'm a little confused about the concept of handfasting.  In the Arrows
books, they make references to the 'year and day handfasting'.  What exactly
does that mean? Do they actually fast for a year and a day?  That's a long
time to actually fast.<<

As far as I understand the concept, handfasting is like being engaged, so a 
year and day handfasting would be like you're engaged officially for a year 
and a day.  You know, if you can't stand each other for a year and a day, how 
about your whole life?  In the actual ceremony, the celebrants' hands get tied 
together, to symbolize blah-blah-blah, and that's where the name comes from.  
I don't know if it has any Wiccan roots.  BtW, CMIIW (Correct Me If I'm 
Wrong).

love,
deniz sarikaya, taking the  |...that which we are, we are,--
time to admire the colors on|One equal temper of heroic hearts,
what trees there are in     |Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
downtown Montreal rather    |To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
than doing homework! dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA    -- Sir Alfred Lord Tennyson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 07:45:56 -0800
From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: handfasting?
Message-ID: <199610291545.HAA00477-+AT+-latimes.com>

At 11:18 AM 10/29/96 GMT, Disney wrote:
>
>I'm a little confused about the concept of handfasting.  In the Arrows
>books, they make references to the 'year and day handfasting'.  What exactly
>does that mean? Do they actually fast for a year and a day?  That's a long
>time to actually fast.  

"Handfasting" is "marriage" in Misty's world.  In ancient Ireland there were
at least nine different types of marriages (and, yes, you could be a part of
more than one marriage at the same time).  One of these was a contract where
the couple agreed to be "married" for a year and a day.  I assume that sort
of thing is what Misty was drawing on, but I don't have the passage in front
of me, so I can't say for sure.

>Also, does anyone think that Misty took some of her Velgarth references
>from the Wiccan culture? (i remember something about wicca being mentioned 
>a while back, so if I'm rehashing i apologize) but someone told me that
>the handfasting thing was like taken from wicca.
>I'm CONFUSED!! :)

It's more accurate to say that "handfasting" is used in wicca, since the
concept exists outside Wiccan culture.  I'm not sure where Misty first heard
about it or decided to take it from.

Danya


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:44:12 -0600 (CST)
From: khu286-+AT+-merle.acns.nwu.edu (Kay Huang Perry)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: ADMIN: oops!
Message-ID: <199610291544.AA196363852-+AT+-merle.acns.nwu.edu>

On an list-ish sort of topic, do you all find yourselves occasionally
spontaneously dropped from the list?  It happened to me last week and I
just added myself back on, but I holding my breath waiting to see if
I start getting two copies of everything.

Spencer


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 10:59:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tensen <tensen-+AT+-crow.cybercomm.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: handfasting?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.961029105804.1632A-100000-+AT+-crow.cybercomm.net>



On Tue, 29 Oct 1996, Disney wrote:

> 
> I'm a little confused about the concept of handfasting.  In the Arrows
> books, they make references to the 'year and day handfasting'.  What exactly
> does that mean? Do they actually fast for a year and a day?  That's a long
> time to actually fast.  

Handfasting is a marriage of sorts.   But instead of for life it is for 
only a year and a day.   The third handfasting to the same person and it 
is generally for life.
 

                                  Tensen


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 08:09:19 -0800
From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: handfasting
Message-ID: <199610291609.IAA00905-+AT+-latimes.com>

At 03:28 PM 10/29/96 GMT, dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA wrote:
>As far as I understand the concept, handfasting is like being engaged, so a 
>year and day handfasting would be like you're engaged officially for a year 
>and a day.  You know, if you can't stand each other for a year and a day, how 
>about your whole life?  In the actual ceremony, the celebrants' hands get tied 
>together, to symbolize blah-blah-blah, and that's where the name comes from.  
In a sense that's how handfasting worked in Ireland.  In the Middle Ages
"betrothal" functioned in much the same way, only for a different purpose.
A couple was betrothed but the marriage date was not usually set until the
woman became pregnant (she had to prove she was fertile--granted, this was a
step that many couples skipped over for political reasons, but this was the
intention of the custom of betrothal).  So being betrothed was rather like
being married only not as permanent.

Danya


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 16:58:18 GMT
From: Ailsa Reid <areid-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: High Priestess of Procrastination
Message-ID: <199610291658.QAA17163-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk>

Renee said:
>There has been something bothering me about Silver Gryphon.  Remember the
>mage, Vikteren?  He was an important character in the Black Gryphon, and
>he was mentioned a few times in White Gryphon, but he just dissappeared
>after that.  He wasn't in SG at all.  At one part, they called all the 
>mages of White Gryphon together to search for Blade and Tas, and I
>thought that Vikteren would have been there (he _was_ a Master), but
>he wasn't.  This really bugged me because I liked Vikteren.  He had a kind
>of rogueish prescence to him.  :)  Does anyone know what happened to him
>or have any theories as to why Misty dropped him as a character?  Just
>curious.
 
A possible theory is that he was one of the ones who went slowly mad after the 
Mage Storms. It says somewhere in SGryph that several of the mages went 
"crazy" in the time between WGryph and SGryph and caused a lot of pain and 
suffering before they left/were driven out/?were killed?  I think Silverfox 
mentions this happening in SR to Firesong.
Same place in SGryph it also says that several people had changed mage levels 
quite dramatically. Even introduces one who'd gone from apprentice level to 
master or adept. So theres another possiblity :>
Ailsa (who has actually managed to think of a comment/answer which hasn't 
appeared in her mailbox yet!!!!!)
 ____________________________________________________________________________
| Ailsa Reid								     |
|				Take the hidden paths which run,	     |
| areid-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk		West of the moon, East of the sun.	     |
|									     |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 13:01:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Renee Mic Markowicz <04613-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Kero & Quotes/Vikteren
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961029122655.9898D-100000-+AT+-copland.udel.edu>

On Tue, 29 Oct 1996, Teleute wrote:
> this...Oh, yes. I was doing the laundry (finally) and my ever-so-wonderful
> friends were making fun of my fashion sense again. They kept asking me
> why I hardly ever wear white. I just stood there thinking, "I'm sure
> Kerowyn would have a good response to this", but I couldn't think of any
> quotes and BTS is at home and my mother has refused to UPS any more of my
> library to me. Can anybody with a copy please find a quote for me?

At the end of BTS, after Kero is chosen, she says to Shallen, Geyr, and
Scratcher:
"Gods, there's one thing I'd like to do--is there any way we can
camouflage the 'oh shoot me now' uniform?"

I'd say the "oh shoot me now" part is a pretty good reason not to want to
wear white.  (Not that you'd be likely to be on a battlefield, or
not,...mumble, grrr...)

About Vikteren, not to nit-pick, but I don't want to just accept that he
just dropped to a lower level of magecraft.  At the end of BG, when Skan
is caught in the Gate...

"NO!" Vikteren screamed.
Amberdrake was not certain what the young mage thought he was doing; he
was only _supposed_ to be Master rank, and Amberdrake had always been told
that only Adepts could build Gates.  But Viketern reached out his hands,
in a clutching, clawlike motion, and Amberdrake _felt_ the energies
pouring from him into the collapsing Gate, seizing it--and somehow,
holding it steady!

>From this, I got the impression that Vikteren might be one who became an
Adept.  After building up all this suspense about his "unusual" ability to
hold a Gate together, as a Master, I thought that Misty would have made
him more of a main character.  Do you think that this was just another
case of Misty changing her mind in the middle of a plotline?  I mean he
_was_ a pretty major character - he led the mages "revolt" for
independence, sort of.  Anyway, this was just something that always bugged
me, kind of like how Benvolio just disappears in the second act of _Romeo
and Juliet_, with no explanation.  Hmmm...maybe Misty's trying to emulate
Shakespeare?  <g>

BTW, thank you for your support Deniz, my sister High Priestess of
Procrastination.  It is greatly appreciated.  :)  And the thunder and
lightning were Very Impressive, Mat!  :)

May your assignments always get done at least a few minutes before class
and may you always find that there are plenty of hours in the day to
procrastinate,
Renee
The (now _Official_) Co-High Priestess of Procrastination <-- BTW Thanks 
                                                                 Mat!

"The hunter tethers the young goat in front of a dragon's lair.  While the
dragon devours the goat, the hunters sneak up on him with their nets and
spears.  They catch the dragon.  Unfortunately, it is a bit late for the
goat...Do you still insist on going?"  Dalamar to Palin Majere
(Dragonlance: The Second Generation)



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 13:04:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Reply to: High Priestess of Procrastination
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961029125748.2240A-100000-+AT+-copland.udel.edu>

On Tue, 29 Oct 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote:

> obmisty: ever notice how some nick-names in Valdemar end with '-ling'
> (not that there are many nick-names, more like pet names) Loverling, catling.
> Of course, I can't exactly see anyone calling Seleney Sel. there is Vanyel's
> Van, and Stefen's Stef, Tylendel's 'Lendel, Yfandes' 'Fandes, but I think
> that's it. oh, Kerowyn's Kero and all the Rethwellen short-names. But even
> Daren's in American get called Dar (or Dare) Hmm. . . Tal? Els? Tar? Sav?
> hmmm

Hmmmm.  Well, as far as the "-ling" goes, that is a fairly typical
diminutive ending in English.  While it is particularly productive in
Modern English, it used to be, and it is still clear enough in most
people's versions of English as a meaningful unit.

As for the shortening of names as a way of forming nicknames, that is
fairly common in Modern English, but is not really terribly common
cross-linguistically.  Many languages, such as Spanish, have other
patterns (which is why you get "Lolita" as the nickname for "Nuestra Dona
de los Dolores" and "Paco" for Francisco).

Anyway, just thought you would like to know...I don't know what relevance
this has, but I am doped on cold medicine right now, and not thinking too
clearly.


May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit,

Cennydd,

Mage of the Green Silences.

Kenneth Allen Hyde     |  No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife
Univ. of Delaware      |  between the shoulder blades will seriously
Dept. of Linguistics   |  cramp his style  -- Old Jhereg proverb
kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu         |  A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me

**http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html**


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:09:30 GMT
From: Ailsa Reid <areid-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: hello?
Message-ID: <199610290909.JAA14598-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk>

Is there anyone there? I haven't heard anything since 14:44 GMT yesterday?
ObMisty: Do Heralds get communication breakdowns too?
Ailsa
 ____________________________________________________________________________
| Ailsa Reid								     |
|				Take the hidden paths which run,	     |
| areid-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk		West of the moon, East of the sun.	     |
|									     |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 11:35:26 -0800
From: davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Parenting-30's/fluff
Message-ID: <xEkdywHqhpsR088yn-+AT+-cet.com>


On Sun, 27 Oct 1996 Julie said;

>for her Karate and gun safety classes! I think the women now who's parents
>were young enough to be involved in the womans civil rights movement are
>more likely to be "independent" than those of us whose parents were raised
>in the 30's, like mine. But gender bias is still around, and probably
>always will be to a certain extent.

Just a note here- my Mom was born in '24 and my Dad in '22 in rural 
Iowa where they also grew up. Now we all know that Iowa is a wildly
liberal state (at least by the standards around here) but it remains
a fact that Mom got her Phd in Mycology (mushrooms) and is a full
professor at Iowa Straight University where she has been teaching
since right after the 2nd war (yoou know, the Hitler one). With all
that in mind, don't tar the all people who grew up pre Womans Lib
with the same brush!
btw, she made more than my Dad did farming!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++><---------------------------------

Have you all heard the one about the farmer who won the Irish 
Sweepstakes? When they asked what he was going to do with the money
he said he thought he'd put it in the bank and keep on farming until
it was all gone.

(hey it's an old joke but then I'm an old fart so there is balance)

-------------------------------<>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Just a note-I think I stay on this list as much for the "fluff" as
for the Misty content. I mean Misty really hasn't been writing at 
the top of her form since MParadox, has she? 


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<>----------------------------------

OBMisty: Do I need one? Well just in case, Instead of a new timeline
I'd like to see a list of the rulers of Valdemar with dob/d and years
they reigned. That would make some of these dating questions easier.
  

Davdi tiffany, oh God, a Typo! 

Mausoleum, n. The final and funniest folly of the rich. -Ambrose Bierce

ps, I want a book where we find out how they built the neat roads.



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 11:42:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Lynne Markova <lynne-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: More on Misty's women
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.94.961029113204.24410A-100000-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>

Lady Sophia emerges from the depths of a frappucino (ummm!!!  yummy!!!)
long enough to comment:

RE:  Misty's women
I really think the non-Velgarthian women seem to be much flirtatious and
interested in relationships than those in Velgarth.  Jennie Talldeer for
instance, or Di, or Rune, or Gwyna, or even Nightingale....  I really
liked Gwyna in TLAW - she enjoyed dressing up, flirting, and generally
having a good time.  I also liked Rune - she could have fallen into the
role of a demure little acolyte, and didn't; and the scene where they're
debating whether or not to get married always amuses me.

One of the (few) reasons I liked the Robin and the Kestrel was there was
some discussion about negotiation, working on the relationship,
discovering traits about the Other that you don't understand, don't want
to understand, or just *don't like*.  Other than the scene at the
beginning of SRising, when Elspeth tells An'desha how she and Darkwind
have "discussed monogamy" and the scene in WGryphon, when Amberdrake and
Winterhart are both troubled by the Emperor's interest in Winterhart,
there doesn't seem to be a lot of time spent on relationships.  That I can
remember.


On a different note, it also seems that the non-Velgarthian characters
enjoy eating a lot more
- Misty seems to have gotten a lot more descriptive about food in those
books (I love the scene in SGround when Jennie throws a frozen yogurt
chone at the Bad Guys), and some of the descriptions in the Fire Rose, and
the Eagle and the Nightingales made my mouth water.  The problem is, when
the descriptions interfere with the plot, or stall the action, you enjoy
them, but wonder "what is this for?"

I really would like to see more of Jennie and David, and Di and Andre.
Hope Firebird is good!

....returning to frappucinio.  Bright blessings, everyone!

Lady Sophia, trilling away
Goddess of Music and Song




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 13:21:01 -0800
From: Jefferson or Rain <macstager-+AT+-earthlink.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: handfasting?
Message-ID: <3276753D.6CB2-+AT+-earthlink.net>

Disney wrote:
> 
> I'm a little confused about the concept of handfasting.  In the Arrows
> books, they make references to the 'year and day handfasting'.  What exactly
> does that mean? Do they actually fast for a year and a day?  That's a long
> time to actually fast.
> 
Okay - well, as I understand it, handfasting is definitely taken from
the Wicca thing.  And it is handfasting to make fast, as in stuck
together, not as in a veggie and juice kind of fast, which would really
bite.  No pun intended.  At least, as it is practiced today.  But.  .  .
centuries ago, in the good old Celtic countries, handfasting was
practiced for a few reasons.
a. to insure fertility.  remember, be fruitful and all that.  this made
sure that the couple could conceive.

b. to insure compatibility.  if you killed each other before a year and
a day, what was the point in getting everyone together for a wedding?

c. generally, in the Scottish highlands, not every village had a priest.
So, this made sure that at some point in your year and a day, there'd be
a priest coming though Loch Haggis, and you'd be able to get hitched. 

I work faires and hang with the Celtic Camps all year long, and this is
the history as I have studied it, and as it has been explained to me. 
Much of Wicca today, is simply the old customs from the old countries.
Those ancient traditions that sprang up in agricultural and isolated
areas.  So, Misty probaby was trying to do a bit of both, as the North
of Valdemar is pretty rural and isolated, but not necessarily all under
one Goddess.  phew. :-)

Wind to thy wings,
rainwood

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 15:35:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: names/Myst books/levinbolts/Octarine Gryphon/J/SR&SB
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.961029152506.9901B-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

> From: MistyWisty-honeypoo <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
> 
> Oh boy! I didn't know what I was starting when I called poor Mat Mattikins
> just to get even with him for calling Jaguar Jaggikins! Now Deniz has topped
> it all by coming up with more Mattareno type names then even I can think of,
> and he's going to blame *me*! <mat, you started it! pppbbtthhh>

Doesn't matter.  It's still your fault. So there. <g>

=============================================================================
> From: Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>

> -Myst: The Book of Ti'ana (hey..cyan can always use cash...and, hey, the 
> book LOOKS kewl,e ven if the plot will most likely be...lacking)

I got that too.  Now if I just have time to read it.  And the first Myst
book had a fairly good plot, so why shouldn't this one?  IIRC, it's about
the fall of D'ni.

> -two mac programming books

must...fight...it.  No....OS....wars.  <g>

> >Hey.  The Windrider Cycle was Baron Valdemar's Son's Harley!  I have it
> >right here, it says so in _Oathblinded_. *grin*
> 
> No, no..that's not in Oathblinded! That's from Storm Signals where Van 
> comes and has a dream-talk with wossname, his other descendant's branch, 
> the one he had with the Avenging Angle...Stef was off performing for 
> Vykaendas,so he brings Harley along for company!

Wait a minute.  I thought that scene was in Octarine Gryphon.  You
know, right Blade and Tad hang out with Rincewind.

> Blah, I was bored. So levin-bolt me;P Which reminds me..I still have a 
> duel with S-L coming up, don't I? Shadow-LOver? You still around?

Maybe I will, one you get your sorry elven butt out of Florida! <g>
And I think S-L went bye-bye.

==============================================================================
> From: Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
Re: Briggs-meyers 'J's:
> -Avoid last-minute stresses"

Funny.  I'm a J, and look at my Godhead. :)

> have a question for those of you who have been so lucky that you have 
> gotten to read SR, and SB, do we meet a bunch of new characters, or is it 
> like a continuation of the Winds series, with Elspeth and Co., and also, 
> do we get to see more of Talia's and Selenay's kids? Or are they just in 
> the background?

Well, Elspeth and Darkwind get part of 1/3 of the plot of SB.  Otherwise
they're not really in it much.  The main characters are An'desha (who was
Falconsbane) and Karal, Sunpriest extrordinaire.  Plus a bit of Firesong
here and there.


Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,   |"Three things are no secret,
Adept, and God of Procrastination| files that somehow hit the 'Net,
Heathen #???                     | your boss's secretary, and
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu       | the third thing....I forget."
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/|        -- "Threes rev 1.1"



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 16:33:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Nicole Dubuc <nicole.dubuc-+AT+-yale.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Another member of the pride...
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.961029161242.6530B-100000-+AT+-minerva.cis.yale.edu>

Greetings, all!  
	This is my first email to the list! (Insert apocalyptic music
here)  A couple days ago my friend Scott sent email to all of
you, but it registered as bounced on the computer screen!  Grr.  I'm
not sure how many of you got it, so I'm saying hi again for both of
us.  He was visiting, and as big of a Misty fan as I am...So, I let him
say hi! (Thanks to all who responded to my worried "Hola?" message!!!)
	As you've probably gathered, I'm am also a newbie(sp? Gnu-bi?
Noo-bee?). I've been reading the conversations, and trying to keep posted.  
As far as Meyers-Briggs goes, I'm an ENTX.  I also happen to miss
Vikteren, and although Amerdrake was cool, Skandranon is still my
favorite.  (Not to enrage anyone about new book speculation, but is Misty
planning on writing any more gryphon centered novels? BG is still my
favorite, though I love them all.)
	Being a college student, I burn hekatombs of incense and cattle to
the god and high priestesses of procrastination almost daily (Hey, it
keeps me from starting my chem!) and want you to know that your
worshipping population grows strong during midterms!
	Did I catch a Terry Pratchett refrence in earlier Email??
Rincewind?? Hmm...Didn't know those books were avaliable here, I only saw
them in Australia.  Maybe I need to frequent a LARGE bookstore more often. 
	Well, I'd better skedaddle.  I gotta go work out, and By the Sword
is calling...

Wind to thy wings, 
	Ke'leecha (Who's other face is Nicole) Goddess of Diet Coke,
Gryphons, and All Who Hate Calculus

___________________________________________________________________________
"Knowledge may give weight, but accomplishment gives luster, and more
people see than weigh."--Letters from the Earl of Chesterfield to His Son
___________________________________________________________________________
"Whenever a student hurls a calculus book or screams at integrals,
Ke'leecha hears, and aids."--Teaching of ancient Ke'leecha sect


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 16:19:20 -0600 (CST)
From: kaychang-+AT+-eden.com (CrystalSkye)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Vanyel's Times: Amberdrake
Message-ID: <199610292219.QAA02313-+AT+-natashya.eden.com>

>Another favorite of mine has always been Vanyel.  It is really hard for me
>to read LHM sometimes (and I have read it many times!) particulary the
>first book, because I can identify with so many of the situations.  So I
>think a lot about Vanyel, and a couple of things have always bothered me
>about the events surrounding the end of his life.

Oooo! Can I say "ditto" and not get persecuted by the oldies on this list? <G>

>The first is Savil, and the way that she died.  Van was so guilt stricken,
>so grief stricken.  And Savil's spirit lived on, and returned.  What I
>wonder, is did they ever talk again?  Did he get a chance to apologize, or
>say goodbye, or say that he loved her?

I should hope so. Maybe (keep in mind that I can't get my hands on any of 
the Arrows series or BTS here) in between books, Kero and Sayvel go up to 
Sorrows, sorta like a... I dunno... a memorial?
(Don't kill me for this one... Jasan is Jaysen, right?)

>Was Vanyel's time a rougher time to be a Herald, do you think?  Was his
>world less civilized? Or was it just him?

Both, maybe. I'm not really sure, err... (my mind's on the fritz right now, 
as I just survived a science exam--urrrrrk!) Really, it might be because he 
lived when Valdemar was fairly young... or it might've been the war 
conditions of his life as a Herald... or maybe I'm just off in la-la land again.

>Another thing that has always bothered me is Starwind and Moondance.  I
>wonder if they knew when Savil died, and later when Vanyel died.   Stef
>probably never saw them again, and they might have been the only ones who
>could help him adjust.  The only ones who know how to contact them were
>gone.

Maybe, since it was said the Companions could beSpeak anyone, even without 
the gifts needed for it, the Tayledras can do so also? I'm not sure. I think 
they knew when Savil, then later, Vanyel died. Call it a hunch; but I think 
they'd know when one of their Wingsibs died.

Okay, 'fore I forget--and it might be a while before I get a good chance to 
ask this--but has it ever been determined how long a candlemark is? I get 
the guess it's around 45 minutes, but I'm not sure.
If that's already been discused, do not dissect me, please. I have enough 
problems knowing we'll be cutting up (ugh) frogs at the (eew) end of the year.

Terra Chang/CrystalSkye
*~*~*
"Is the world going crazy or is it just *me*?!"


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 16:35:38 -0600 (CST)
From: kaychang-+AT+-eden.com (CrystalSkye)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: WoFury and Ashkevrons
Message-ID: <199610292235.QAA03892-+AT+-natashya.eden.com>

>Does anyone 
>else think that that long-dead ancestor might be Vanyel's grandfather 
>Joserlin? As I recall, Van said something about Joserlin having very 
>odd ideas about what should go where... Of course there is always the 
>possibility that the ghost in the story is some Ashkevron we don't 
>know about (and given the 600 some years between Van and Elspeth it's 
>quite possible). Opinions would be much appreciated, both pro and 
>con.

I never thought of that... when I first read it, I thought it was Vanyel...

Terra Chang/CrystalSkye
*~*~*
"Is the world going crazy or is it just *me*?!"


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 18:36:24 -0500
From: Soljan-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Candlemarks and frogs
Message-ID: <961029183603_1582623407-+AT+-emout10.mail.aol.com>

CrystalSkye said:
<< Okay, 'fore I forget--and it might be a while before I get a good chance
to 
 ask this--but has it ever been determined how long a candlemark is? I get 
 the guess it's around 45 minutes, but I'm not sure.
 If that's already been discused, do not dissect me, please. I have enough 
 problems knowing we'll be cutting up (ugh) frogs at the (eew) end of the
year >>
    Ummm...we have discussed it,  but not *too* much.  I always thought it
was closer to an hour.  Any other list veterans remember this topic?  Did we
come up with and answer?  If so,  we should add it to the list of things
to-be-included-in-the-FAQ.  

Ah yes,  the frog lab.  It's really not that bad.  Just get it over and done
with as fast and efficiently as possible.  What I'm really not looking
forward to is dissecting a cat this year.  =(  They just seem much more
intelligent than frogs.  *Sigh*  I'll have to survive it somehow,  but I'm
not going to like it.  

Lady Silvermoon
LIG,  Leader of the DDMF,  Goddess of Sensitivity
"You came in with the breeze,  on Sunday morning,  sure have changed since
yesterday,  without any warning."  _Sunday Morning_ No Doubt


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 19:13:11 EST
From: Selkie <k95cm02-+AT+-kzoo.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: fluff/gods
Message-ID: <199610300013.TAA01990-+AT+-hobbes.kzoo.edu>

	Oh, Wintershard, can I be your priestess, please?  I think I fit the
criteria.  I've always been subtle and discret, and I think that even Crappy
Weather can be fun if it happens on the right days.  Of course, if I like
it, maybe it doesn't count as crappy weather.  
	ObMisty:  Hmmm, well, nobody's told me yet if they saw Barlowe's, so
I can't comment on that, and, letsee, hmm, okay.  Are the Gryphon books
good?  I wasn't ever particularlly intrigued by the idea of them, but I can,
occasionally be wrong. (;  <--backwards 'cause I'm left handed. 
				Love and kisses, Cele
----------------------------------------------------------------------	
	May we kiss those we please and please those we kiss
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Cecelia Ann Marsh			|"You've been reading 	     |
 Box 444 Hicks Center  			|too much meaning from	     |
 Kalamazoo MI 49006			|existence" 		     |
 E-mail: k95cm02-+AT+-kzoo.edu		|			     |
 http://www.kzoo.edu/~k95cm02/		|	   -James _Lullaby_  |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 19:25:06 -0500
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: Reply to: frogs
Message-ID: <199610291926_MC1-B6B-7CF9-+AT+-compuserve.com>

Silvermoon (i think) said she was not looking forward to dissecting a cat


You have to dissect a **cat**?!?!? Profanity! Blasphemy!!! I call on Bastet
and Sehkmet to teach your school a thing or fifteen about the stupidity of
doing such a thing! Nevermind, we'll just leave Bastet at home (she's
much <comparitively> nicer than Sehkmet). They will wish they had never
suggested/thought/done such a thing!!! CHARGE!!!!!!

In reply: no I don't think it's fair to the cats to live in the pound for the rest of
their lives. No i don't think it's fair that <stray>cats are put to sleep if they don't
go to a home in X days. and no i don't have any idea how to resolve these 
issues, but if i ever make a bundle i'll set up a cat sanctuary in my house!

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 19:54:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Nicole Dubuc <nicole.dubuc-+AT+-yale.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Candlemarks and frogs
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.961029194633.24292A-100000-+AT+-minerva.cis.yale.edu>

Heck, even Anubis would be po'd to discover mandatory dissection of cats!
And he's half jackal!  I had to do fetal pigs, crayfish, perch, starfish,
yes, the obligatory frog too, but never a cat!  I heard they have to do
fetal horses at a nearby college! EEEEWWW!  I think I can hear Companions
everywheresnorting disgust!
	Just want to let you know I sympathize, and that I wouldn't be
able to hack that!
	Returning to chem lab questioning her pre-med major, Ke'leecha,
Goddess of Diet Coke, Gryphons, and Those Who Hate Calculus



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 19:55:26 EST
From: "AMY E. BAUER" <baueramy-+AT+-zebu.cvm.msu.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Briefly delurking on candlemarks, frogs, generations,etc
Message-ID: <4B2F773393F-+AT+-zebu.cvm.msu.edu>

Heyla all,
    I've been wanting to contribute and delurk for a little while 
now, but my thoughts have either been completely disorganized or 
short enough to barely constitute a one-liner.  Here goes :)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
     I also thought that a candlemark was equivalent to about an 
hour.  I vaguely remeber it raising it's flame before, but I don't 
think that there was a consensus.  Maybe next time exams get me brain 
fried I'll try an experiment and see how long it takes for a candle 
to burn down.  Then again, I might end up falling asleep, risking my 
experiment and (depending on where I put the candle) my house.  Think 
I'll put that one back on the shelf for the time being :)
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
     I don't remember my frog lab that much, CrystalSkye, which I'm 
taking to mean that it was inocuous.  Actually, the cat wasn't too 
terrible, Silvermoon.  Umm,  this is probably a sick suggestion, but 
my lab partners and I always name our cadavers.  I don't know why, 
but it somehow made it less emotionally traumatic for us.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
       OK, I know that this is quasi-out-of-date, but I enjoyed the 
discussion on Misty's women and their relationships.  Someone 
(Heather, was it you?) said that there may have been some kind of 
generational relationship.  Sorry for massacring (sp?) the idea in 
compressing it.  Anyway, it seems to me that Talia is representative 
of maybe my grandmother's generation (I'm 22 on Mon. and too lazy to 
do the year math) for whom marriage was an expected situation, but 
careers were also starting to open up.  Kero, on the other hand (yes, 
I know that she's older) and Natoli as well, seem to be from the 
mentality of a generation later, again, I'm generalizing, where women 
were making their way not only into the workforce, but into 
traditionally "male" fields and thus had to prove themselves as or 
more competent.
      Side note and professional plug here (please forgive).  There 
has been a majority of women enrolled in and graduating from 
veterinary school since the late 1970's.  My class has only 11 men 
out of 100.
     Back on track.  When I write, I'm usually exploring an issue 
which I'm personally trying to deal with.  For example, Tony was one 
of the first people I remember "consciously" choosing as a friend so 
while I was learning to understand frienship from this perspective I 
was writing about it and it helped to develop my understanding.  I 
wonder if maybe something in Misty's life (leaving the guy before 
Larry?) prompted her to develop women where marriage was not such an 
overhanging shadow.  IIRC, Talia and Selenay are the only major 
characters in Arrows, MWinds and MStorms, please correct me if I'm 
wrong.

Oops, not so short after all.
May the stars sing to you
amy
(really really hoping to be goddess of sycamore trees and subtle 
escapes)

P.S.  I'm exactly half-way between INFP and INFJ  


------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 908
*********************************