MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 919

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) 
	by Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
  2) Re: 
	by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
  3) Re: Circles/Flattery
	by Wintershard <peallen-+AT+-naz.edu>
  4) Re: lots of things
	by Katherine M Brielmaier <Katherine.M.Brielmaier-1-+AT+-tc.umn.edu>
  5) Re: My Savior (really the circle discussion continued)
	by khu286-+AT+-merle.acns.nwu.edu (Kay Huang Perry)
  6) Silverfox
	by singer-+AT+-iglobal.net
  7) Re: Mini-Braid: /perfection/data
	by infodyn-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy (Eleonora Scoseria)
  8) RE: BDays/Abrev. List
	by GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu
  9) Braves Braidsson Goes A-Plot Hunting
	by Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
 10) Braid/Silverfox/1trueway/circles et al.
	by Jefferson or Rain <macstager-+AT+-earthlink.net>
 11) Physics/Writing Music/Firebird/
	by Lynne Markova <lynne-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>
 12) Re: duane/Silverfox/1 true way
	by "Emily L Cartier" <ecartier-+AT+-engr.udayton.edu>
 13) Oops!/Bunnicula/Dune/Duane/MZB
	by undine <stafford-+AT+-iac.net>
 14) Re: lots of things
	by Nicole Dubuc <nicole.dubuc-+AT+-yale.edu>
 15) Re: 1 true way
	by Jefferson or Rain <macstager-+AT+-earthlink.net>
 16) Re: Oops!/Bunnicula/Dune/Duane/MZB
	by Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:18:08 GMT
From: Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Message-ID: <199611041818.SAA09976-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>

Korendil said:
> I was teasing too--or so I thought. sigh. And I've yet to even take 
> Algebra 1, so all the math is Karsite to me...but it IS rather amusing to 
> see people put SO MUCH energy into MATH...wait. I shouldn't be talking. 
> I'm putting a lot of energy into a compendium of magic in Misty's works, 
> of all inane things...at least your discussion has SOME value..
> 

Careful, Kory. Thy Beloved Listmistress has, in her time, put quite a lot
of energy into maths (though not so much into that sort of area, which is why
she's been staying out of the discussion about the effects). Scorn not the
area of thy Listmistress' doctoral thesis, or she will send thee a copy and
suggest that thou readest it :) (hey, two threads at once :))

Three-D geometry not Mel's skill.

ObMisty: Okay, I think I now have time to sit down and read some of my 
backlog in the next week or so. Which should I read first, Silver Gryphon or
Storm Breaking? Will I care?

Mel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:53:17 -0800
From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: 
Message-ID: <199611041853.KAA00619-+AT+-latimes.com>

Mel wrote:

>ObMisty: Okay, I think I now have time to sit down and read some of my 
>backlog in the next week or so. Which should I read first, Silver Gryphon or
>Storm Breaking? Will I care?

Oh, Storm Breaking, definitely!  It had its problems, but Silver Gryphon
makes a better doorstop than a book.  There is one throw-away reference in
SB to Skan's son, Tadrith Wyrsabane, which refers to SG.  Other than that,
nothing imporatant is leaping to mind that's in SB that wasn't in BG or WG
or somewhere in SW or SR.  Anyone else think of anything?

Danya


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:15:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Wintershard <peallen-+AT+-naz.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Circles/Flattery
Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.95.961104134439.21864A-100000-+AT+-orion.naz.edu>

NightShade wrote:

<<I was simply
saying that, in my very humble opinion, the point had been made. I skim
through the stuff I don't understand, and am truly grateful for the
translations some people put in. I guess what I was trying to say was that,
for future discussions of this nature, please everyone remember that not
everyone understands it. >>

TINAF, but I could use the same arguments for some of Misty's books. Why?
Because I haven't read them yet. I'm only at BTS in Velgarth, yet a lot of
the discussion these days is about stuff after that (especially SB). Do I
complain about it? No. The people who are doing the talking just know more
about the subject than I do. I still read the posts, because they're
interesting, and if I'm able to say something about a post without
sounding like I'm a complete blabbering fool, I do so. <---All that means
is I try to enjoy everyone's input, whether it be English fom Cen,
Character from Heather, Books from Undine, Tithe to the Dieties, or Fluff.
That's what I got on the list for. And I've learned a ~lot~ by just
reading <thinks for a moment> about 2 months worth of the list. If I were
to only read things I understood, I'd be much worse of than I am now.
It's a part of life. Yes, there are times where I skim over posts because
they may be too much for me, or <gasp> don't have the time to read them
well. That's my fault, not the list's. And it's not the list that should
be harmed because of it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Deniz scripted:
<<Well, this should cheer you up some.  It just started snowing here in
Montreal (Indian Summer) yesterday (ooh, is there some symbolism there or
what? First snow on all-hallow's eve.  Wow!), and the weather's been
crappy all week.>>

Oooh... Tingles all over my body. Phew! Now I know what you feel, Oh
Lovely Lilac Fairy ;)


Then Kory followed with:
<<A nice day has a constant gray sky and the feel all day that a storm's
coming and random cool breezes and no direct sunlight! And maybe even some
very light misty rain..>>

My heart's all aflutter with glee at the thought. :) Ooh, I've got to go
get something to cool me down a bit. My face feels warm. Am I blushing?
<g> Tsk, that won't do. :giggle:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Deniz, if I had more time, I'd reply to your post about the circles. It
gave me a good amount to think about :) Thank you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
ObMisty: Wouldn't you say that the spreading of Heralds and the like in
Velgarth is kinda like the way America is in the real world? (I know, weak
as could be, but even a demon fears 'The Wrath of Mel' <g>)


Wintershard
Demon of Subtlety, Discreetness, and Crappy Weather
"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it."








------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:45:34 -0600 (CST)
From: Katherine M Brielmaier <Katherine.M.Brielmaier-1-+AT+-tc.umn.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: lots of things
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.961104133258.14913A-100000-+AT+-gold.tc.umn.edu>



On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Emily L Cartier wrote:

> On the topic (sorta) of those circles
> Deniz said:
> >If you want to write Science Fiction, you have to understand Science, 
> >or else
> >you'll be unbelievable and torn apart.  That's what one of my English 
> >teachers
> >told me, and this looks like a case in point.
> 
> I thought Misty was writing FANTASY!?!?!?!?!?<--5 of each) I think we 
> might be getting our genres a little confused here. If Velgarth was a 
> world where they called the magic a strange form of tech and had 
> explanations thereof, I could see getting bent cause Misty forgot to 
> check her math and physics (I'm studying to be an engineer and I get 
> as bent as anyone when the author makes a mistake in science that I 
> can catch... In science fiction). But Misty calls it fantasy. 
> Cynnedd, do you happen to have a good definition of the difference 
> between sf and fantasy?

Misty *is* writing fantasy.  However, that doesn't give her an excuse to 
throw logic to the winds.  I get tired of fantasy worlds that don't 
*work*.  Ones where the author seems to think "well, there's no 
reasonable explanation for what I want to do here, and I don't really 
feel like going to all the work of creating one and burying it subtly in 
the text, but hey, it's fantasy!  Why bother?"  Yuck.  Misty created the 
mage-storms, she gave them a logical premise on which to work, and based 
it according to the laws of geometry, calculus, etc.  Therefore, it 
*should* work, and if it doesn't, then (thanks to the Circle People) by 
God we'll know the reason why! 

RE: Perfect Characters

I don't know if I'd call them fantastically perfect.  They've all got 
problems--Talia was *way* too timid, Vanyel was always wrapped up in 
himself (sheeps from the Vanyel-worshippers....hey, I like him too, but 
he's not perfect!), Elspeth was way too hard-headed, etc. etc.   They're 
not *perfect* but they *are* essentially "good people".  Is that where 
your complaints are coming from?  Even Tremane turned out to be a decent 
guy.  I agree that Misty has lost a lot of her punch as regards 
3-dimensional characters.   I'd personally like to see a book about a 
mean-old uprepentant "bad guy", but it's not likely to happen soon.

And I agree with Emily about Karse.  It was *way* more fun when we knew 
nothing about it.  Much more mysterious.  Hmmm....much like many 
relationships seem to go for me lately...

's e do bheatha,

Kaatje


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:01:12 -0600 (CST)
From: khu286-+AT+-merle.acns.nwu.edu (Kay Huang Perry)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: My Savior (really the circle discussion continued)
Message-ID: <199611042001.AA126487672-+AT+-merle.acns.nwu.edu>

> Whoa! Yeah, sure, but where are hyperbolas intersecting with other hyperbolas?

Are you considering Ma'ar's castle and Urtho's tower to each be a foci
of the hyperbola?  If so, I don't think it would work since,  of course,
they would never intersect.  Then, of course, Misty would never get
her nifty intersection points.  And, of course, the Dhorisha plains and
Lake Evendim wouldn't be so nice and round since on using the hyperbola
analogy, they would create a single shock wave of X dimension.  At least,
I think so, if I understand deniz correctly.

However, expanding ripples from each point would intersect, whether they 
form exact spherical waves or ellipsoidal waves or parabolic curves.


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:19:46 -0600
From: singer-+AT+-iglobal.net
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Silverfox
Message-ID: <v01510100aea3af6250ce-+AT+-[207.43.170.57]>


I always read Silverfox's comment about Firesong limiting himself by being
"exclusively shay'a'chern" as, um, a professional assessment.  Something in
the way of counseling.  But I don't know, really.  Maybe I just want
Silverfox to be she'chorne, for some undefined personal reason.  I admit
that this particular subject is not an area of expertise- I mean sex in
general, not any one area or preference.  Regardless, I do at least
maintain that you can't *assume* he's bisexual because of his dutues as a
kestra'chern.

 I also found Heather's response very thoughtfully made and helpful,
especially the gist of the last paragraph, which was basically that you
can't be sure of anyone's preferences based only on the person they happen
to be with.  Is this supportive of Van's musings in Magic's Pawn about
whether the sex of the person you love dearly has anything to do with the
determination of orientation?  Would Vanyel and Tylendal have been what
they were, even if 'Lendel were a woman?  And if they were, would Vanyel
then be straight?  It is very confusing.  I guess the best rule to go by is
calling people what they call themselves; thank you, Heather.

This little post of Heather's made me wonder a little about An'desha; he
has always seemed a little sexually ambiguous, and there is text evidence
in SW that he did not really consider himself she'chorne, and was really
confused by his responses to Firesong.  So this is a possible argument for
the love mattering more than the package; but in this case, maybe not.
Everything concerning An'desha in that first book was so extreme; he was
confused and frightened and abused, and not really sure of anything about
himself.  It might be especially easy for someone like An'desha to respond
to the first person who showed him love, and caring and have that move
rapidly into something else.  (And now, IIRC, An'desha's musings in the
second chapter may indicate that this is very close to what happened.  It
is hard to say; suddenly he is just with Firesong, and the beginning of
that relationship is never laid out.)

Personally, I don't think the package matters at all, only the love.  These
are just my musings.


                                Go Gently,

                                        Tresta

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Tresta shena Jor'ethan                         "Love must live free."
Healer to horses                                    -Shin'a'in Teaching

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

"To be tired of horses is to be tired of life; horses are a gift to us."

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%




------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 17:27 EST
From: infodyn-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy (Eleonora Scoseria)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Mini-Braid: /perfection/data
Message-ID: <m0vKVby-000pkTC-+AT+-nicasio.distrinet.com.uy>

This is my first message to the list, so please be gentle :)

>Jacquelle wrote:
>On another line, the Heralds who do get reincarnated into Companions 
>must go through some major changes in order to be the seemingly 
>infallible beings that they are.  They can't just be Heralds in 
>horses bodies.  Yet, Vanyel says of Gwena that she is young and makes 
>mistakes, and she's Grove Born, so how much more prone are the non-GB 
>Companions to making mistakes?  Why is it that we never see the 
>Companions EVER doing something wrong?  They aren't perfect--Savil 
>says that about Gala, so why don't they screw up more often, like 
>people do?  Wishful thinking, I suppose.  It would make life more 
>interesting, and much less...oh, what's the word?...cute?  perfect?

I guess what Van actually says about Gwena is that she has no real HUMAN
experience. So I always took it to mean that the grove born are not
reincarnated Heralds but spirits who have never been in the world before.
Does anybody else agree? If so, how can they guide their chosen without
making even more mistakes? Also, do you think those grove born Companions
ever reincarnate as Heralds?
Just questions.
Wind to thy winds,
Ele


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:42:24 -0600 (CST)
From: GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: RE: BDays/Abrev. List
Message-ID: <961104154224.22b4cd5c-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu>

Hey Stormwind.....

Thanks! for the computer.  I need it.  I appologize for lurking only, but
I am in the midst of the most awful semester (which I actually like....)
still, I need a favor....

Hey all.... any Powers of time out there?  I plead for a short time of oh
say about 4 weeks where I get a 32 hour day and everyone else here in Tulsa
gets a 24 hour day.....  Pretty please just for a while?  I could split

I have recently read all of the Talia stuff.... and I loved it.  I pretty
much cried when Kris died, and I was white with anger several others.. 
when Ilsa died, when Talia was tortured, and when that scum on the Council
tried to get at Dirk...  Lots of times.  An emotional read for me.  "I am
I/E (right on the border) NFP for personality profile......." That might ex
explain it.

I started the Winds trilogy, and like what I have read... except.... sorry..
I REALLY can't stand Elspeth.  I'll admit (shameful pause) to standing up and
yelling that Gwenna should just repudiate her and get it over with... )
Tif tells me it and she gets better.  I worry that I am a bit too much like 
her maybe.....  ouch.  I liked her in Arrows though.. after the brat stage
I only really was upset with her once, and that was a difference in judgement.
I would NOT have offered any Council person the opportunity to resign, except
on the end of a sword, in a ball of flame, or at the end of a glass embedded
rope....  I think many on the Council at the time would have supported it
as well....   Ok, so Carrach means bloody jaws.... 

I think I am going to fill out the Herald paperwork for QO.  Any suggestions? 
I usually am very strong on mediating and the use of mercy and wisdom..
until time to excise the dead weight.  Then best to do it utterly and swiftly
in public and grieve for it in private.  What do you think?  Do I fail as
Herald material due to this perspective do you think?

To Summersong... (sorry it is late) ... the joy one feels at certain moments
                 while standing in the warm sun, the smell of summer flowers
                 drifting through the air in a delicate perfume, and the 
		 sensations of intoxication on life trickling down into the
		 dark places in ones soul and bringing a song of light and
		 well being to dispel the shadows and encourage the fullness
		 of the growth of summer...

To Ke'leecha... Greetings, and salutations.  ... how about a warm hug and
                a good sharp steel dagger with two edges... one for creating
                the useful new and one for transformative destruction...

To Virelle....  I've never seen ya on the list so greetings, salutations
		and ... that a wish of your heart that you would net take the
		time and energy to make come true yourself, come true for you
		jsut because you are you, and the universe recognizes the
		deserving some times...

To Megan ...    Ditto above, + ... a feeling af the wet grass between your
		toes when you most need to be connected to something solid
		and reassuring in your life, whenever that may be...

To Anderson...	Ditto again, + ... a soaring of the spirit within you making
		you feel all the power and strength of your own magic, at a e
		quiet moment when you aren't expecting it...

To Cat \/\/OMAN ... sinuous movement over the wet rocks of a foggy morning
		high in young mountains, silk of motion and fur, claws 
		slightly flexed for purchase and as a token of the hunt to come
		come, dew on leaves, the colors of the patterns of the heat and 		magic of life through your eyes, swift running to take down the 

		prey, joy in its swiftness as you follow, security in your
		place as a natural steward of the rhythm of this dance, 
		excitement as you open the full power of dense hard muscles
		still sleek and lithe to draw nigh the prey, and the 
		SATISFACTION of the rightness in the single crunch of neck
		bones in your jaws, sweet warm life renewing you and 
		completing the circle of life, and no fur in your teeth.
		Ever.  Heh....
(Non-
(Non-Scorpios beware the above... images could be less enjoyable for less
	predatory sun signs..... )

And to ALL ... 	A very happy funny moment coming to you right when you're
			set to agonize over something... making you laugh
			and lightening things considerably.

Carrach  (hopefully> Diety of mediation, negotiation, advocacy, and, if 
		     needed, resort to large sharp mass damage weapons...
	"Be nice.  No matter what, be NICE. Until it's time Not to be nice..."
	- ROADHOUSE

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 17:07:33 -0500
From: Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
To: "Misty List" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>
Subject: Braves Braidsson Goes A-Plot Hunting
Message-ID: <9611042212.AA18253-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net>

>Misty *is* writing fantasy.  However, that doesn't give her an excuse to 
>throw logic to the winds.

Right. I'm reading a book right now by wossname wossame Card..the guy who 
did Ender's Game...about how to write sci-fi and fantasy..one thing he 
mentions is how sometimes "hard" sci-fi writers will go through so much 
trouble as to not miscalculate their planet's gravity, and not even 
realize that al their characters have the same personality, and 
converseley how fantasy writers will go through a lot of trouble on 
characters and plots and disregard scientific stuff. And there was some 
toher stuff that reminded me of discussion we've had here, but I forget 
it..

>I'd personally like to see a book about a 
>mean-old uprepentant "bad guy", but it's not likely to happen soon.

Oh? WHat about Melles? And no that is NOT a spoiler since I didn't do a 
thing other than name a name and give the impression he's a bad guy which 
one'd know soon after starting ANYWAY.

>Would Vanyel and Tylendal have been what
>they were, even if 'Lendel were a woman?

I think so, from the famous Bolt The Door Scene in Mprice...stefen, you 
might recall, basically said that "I'd love you even if you were old, 
which you are NOT, or ugly or..or..even if you were a woman!" that's all 
from memory, so it could be wrong, and most likely is..

>So I always took it to mean that the grove born are not
>reincarnated Heralds but spirits who have never been in the world before.
>Does anybody else agree? 

Nooooooooooooooo....<looks at singed clothing> whoops..I'll shut up 
now..g..go ahead..<wary look to make sure no-one who'd get...mad...might 
see>

>Wait a minute!!!!  Data wasn't WILLINGLY kissing that Borg Queen, was 
>he?  No, he wasn't..I am in complete denial.  She was blackmailing 
>him.  <g>

Actually, from the preview I saw when I went to see Romeo and Juliet, 
either he gets captured by the Borg, or it's really 
Lores...erm..Lore...Lores' the herald..gotta get my fiction straight;> 

>Careful, Kory. Thy Beloved Listmistress has, in her time, put quite a lot
>of energy into maths (though not so much into that sort of area, which is why
>she's been staying out of the discussion about the effects). Scorn not the
>area of thy Listmistress' doctoral thesis, or she will send thee a copy and
>suggest that thou readest it :) (hey, two threads at once :))

Y--ye---yes ohg great and powerful listrmistress. I humbly beg 
forgiveness for my transgressions <Mental Note 3: Do NOT, under ANY 
circumstances, make Auntie Mel want to shove a doctoral thesis down your 
throat>

>Which should I read first, Silver Gryphon or
>Storm Breaking? Will I care?

SB. Definitely. It's pretty good, unlike Silver...

> but I actually
>liked, yes liked, Silver Gryphon

Hmm..make I should reconsider that High Priestess thing;P





-+AT+-LIDNEROK___________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________KORENDIL-+AT+-
I|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High|I
C|Court, Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan,  |C 
U|God of All Things Nocturnal, Ailurophile, and  #Macintosh Op. |U 
B|______________________________________________________________|B
E|"This was a providential oppurtunity to eat one more apple    |E 
D| turnover before embarking on the unknown. Gavroche stopped,  |D 
.| fumbled in his trousers, felt in his fob, turned out his     |. 
N| pockets, found nothing in them, not a sou, and began to cry, |N 
E|'Help!' It is hard to just miss out on the ultimate cake."    |E
T|     --Victor Hugo's _Les Miserables_                         |T
 -+AT+-__________________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________________-+AT+-





------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 11:36:00 -0800
From: Jefferson or Rain <macstager-+AT+-earthlink.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid/Silverfox/1trueway/circles et al.
Message-ID: <327E45A0.4DE2-+AT+-earthlink.net>

A while back, a most helpful and soon to be marzipan-filled sheep
receiving list-sib wrote:

>>>You asked about braiding?  Well, I can't get my system to do anything more 
complicated than open up more than one letter at a time and compose and
jump 
between them all using "Window", so that's what I do.  I hit either
Compose or 
Reply, start my topic off with "Braid:", and then I open up a post I
want to 
talk about.  I highlight what I want to quote, copy it (CTRL-C), switch 
windows, paste it (CTRL-V), and put little >>> and <<< around it. <<<

:-) Like that?  Cennydd, your braiding technique either didn't work with
my software, or I am just too sheep-headed to use it.  <sheepish grin>
but thank you so much for taking the time to explain it.  I think it
must be because I use Netscape Mail or something.  However, you are
still going to get the gold encrusted jewel dripping truffle sheep - and
I will send Deniz a  bejeweled marzipan version of same.  .  .  I guess
someone had better sheep me off to computer school pretty quick here!

>>>I always read Silverfox's comment about Firesong limiting himself by being "exclusively shay'a'chern" as, um, a professional assessment.  Something in the way of counseling.  But I don't know, really.  Maybe I just want Silverfox to be she'chorne, for some undefined personal reason.<<<

Well, Tresta - I have also always thought of Silverfox as being
she'chorne also.  I definitely defined Amberdrake as being straight,
because of his lifebond with Winterhart - I don't really think, that you
would lifebond with someone who didn't *match* your sexual orientation. 
I mean, one of the major factors of lifebonding is that if you are
unhappy, so is your partner.  Now, forgive me if I am wrong - but if
your taste ran to one gender, wouldn't you be miserable if you had to
live with the other forever?  So it just doesn't follow for me, that
Amberdrake would have been anything other than straight because of his
lifebond.  Maybe bi.  Like, a 3 on the Kinsey scale. This is only my
opinion, so please friends, don't lamb-baste me about this okay?

Circles, circles, circles.  I am really not adept with the hard sciences
- and so much of the circle discussion has been over my head.  I don't
dispute anyone's right to discuss it - and it is on-topic. I am just
skimming the posts, shuddering with confusion, and moving on.  Ewe all
get very high marks in my books - 

One True Way - I read all your posts with great interest - and yes,
Misty does seem to be moving toward "only one way".  But, think about it
for a second.  Obviously she has a pretty enlightened world-view. 
Vanyel was the first she'chorne character I'd ever encountered in
fantasy, all the way back when I first read LHM.  I tend to think that
my world-view is open-minded and "everyway is valid" as well.  Until I
am confronted with a line of protesters outside my OB GYN's office, or
someone tries to convince me that I will burn eternal if I don't believe
*their* way.  At which point, I become fairly well convinced that my way
is the only way, which pretty much defeats the whole point of thinking
*my* way.  So, my point is this.  We all have a world view, and our
actions, thoughts, writings are going to reflect this world view.  I
think that Misty's Heralds reflect the highest aspirations that Misty
has for people on *this* planet.  To be good, thoughtful, caring and
concientious folk.  To be tolerant.  To have integrity.  Although, I
would like to see more villains who aren't sex-mad, depraved, deviant
and insane.  Sometimes, bad guys are just bad in the smaller ways, and
they don't rape children, and they don't blow everybody up.  Sometimes,
that can be more terrifying.

Okie dokie - enough for now.  I had best post this now.  For all of you
who requested the ST:TNG/Seuss - be patient.  I will get it to you soon.
I have 2 kids, a job, 2 kids, errands, 2 kids, class, 2 kids, housework,
2 kids, dinner to cook, 2 kids.  .  . and a geriatric computer set-up. 
I believe the telling point is the 2 kids.  I'll get it to you, I
promise!

http://home.earthlink.net/~macstager/

peace - go gentle

rainwood

ps. for more sheep, check out my homepage.  Go to the URL pasted above,
and click on Rainwood's page.  Also, Clan MacStagger is a fun link,
although I'm not on it yet.  My lifemate is though -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:03:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Lynne Markova <lynne-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Physics/Writing Music/Firebird/
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.94.961104144827.23717A-100000-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>

Lady Sophia wipes away a tear from listening to "Adagio for Strings," and
replies:

Congratulations to all of you who are entering into the wave discussion.
Physics was one of my favorite subjects!  I hereby nominate all of you for
honorary membership in the Blues (but only if you want to be nominated!)

> 
> By the way, it's even harder to try and write music out.  Ugh.
> 
I would say it is harder, because in most schools we do not get much
practice in writing music.  Even if you take a theory course, that's one
or two hours a day, only - whereas, we spend eight or more hours per day
reading, writing, and using language.  I do know it became much easier to
transcribe/take dictation/learn music after I spent at least two hours per
day "studying" music and listening to music....  I'm not sure if I'm
expressing myself terribly well here....  just that music itself is a
"language" and it is hard to use it, without first investing lots of time.

(Lady Sophia's first language *was* music, but that's a looooong story).

RE:  Firebird
> 
> This does NOT sound like misty...an enchanted maiden complacently waiting 
> for her true love to come and break the spell and take her off so that 
> she can spend her days doing embroidery and worship her strong and 
> powerful man? Hmm..on the other hand, I COULD see her doing it with the 
> male being the captive...but role reversals like that are becoming 
> cliche...
>
No, it doesn't - but perhaps the enchanted maiden is geas-bound, like
Kundry, in Susan Shwartz's *The Grail of Hearts* (a beautiful book!) - and
has no choice....  somehow, I cannot see Misty writing a fragile, weak
heroine, who just clings to the hero's arm...  ill, yes, frail, yes,
possibly even fragile, but not *weak*.  

RE:  Diane Duane

I didn't like Dairine either.  So, is A Wizard Abroad finally available
over here in the US?  That's terrific news!

RE:  Katherine Kurtz

KK used to be one of my favorite authors....  I really enjoyed her, but
lately she has gotten so dark and depressing, I can't stand to read her!
Also, I really enjoyed Conall - I had high hopes for him - and then KK had
to go and turn him into a traitor.  It seems like whoever is not
completely tied to Kelson, and thinks he is the greatest things since
sliced bread has to be killed off.  Frankly, I find Kelson just the
tiniest bit too perfect and noble....  and the Heirs of St. Camber trilogy
was just so sad!

RE:  Misty's character development

The thing I notice about Misty's characters is that when they have a
fault, it is always noticed and commented and pointed out.  It is not
allowed to simply be part of the character.  She did an excellent job with
Talia's shyness and retiring nature in ATQ, but Elspeth's attitude,
Tremane's calculation and nerves, Firesong's arrogance, Karal's inability
to handle stress....  these are all noticed, and commented on, and
commented on again, until I do, indeed, feel as though "someone has hit me
over the back of the head with a board."  It's as if, also, that everyone
is only allowed to have one negative character trait, so when they
manifest this trait, it has to be commented on repeatedly.

I think Di and Jennie Talldeer, Rose Hawkins and Jason Cameron are much
more "realistic" in that sense - they have their faults, but they are not
so...  overdrawn.


> 
> Lady Sophia, why have I not noticed your Goddesshood before? I have 
> seen the light! I believe I might be your High Priestess if you would deign to look 
> upon my OSHFace. I sing and play - no, I don't dance! Sorry! But I 
> can do the rest of it. Please inform me of my duties if it pleases 
> your Holy Goddess. *Please*....  I do begging well, too, as befits a bard so 
> let me know if I need to grovel! If you already have a High 
> Priestess, I will be content simply to worship at your feet.
> 
> Adrianne, Bard & Renunciate
> 
KAAAA-BOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!  (Thunderclaps resound!!!!)

Rise, Lady Adrianne!!  To you be conferred the title of High Priestess of
the Goddess of Music and Song.  Your duties are to be First Bard of all
Bards (or Pen-barrd, if you are of Keltic extraction), supervise all bards
and keep them in line (not an easy task), hear all petitions directed to
the Goddess of Song and Music, and be an expert on All Things Musical.
I bestow upon my High Priestess a golden lyre, lute or harp, and a laurel
wreath.

BTW, my birthday is 20 July 1967, and I am an INFJ,

Blessed be!

Lady Sophia, trilling away
Goddess of Song and Music



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:19:03 -0500
From: "Emily L Cartier" <ecartier-+AT+-engr.udayton.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: duane/Silverfox/1 true way
Message-ID: <9611050021.AA17750-+AT+-udecc.engr.udayton.edu>

Thank you O Glorious God of Procrastination, but Diane Duane has a 
wonderful homepage with things like a complete bibliography of her 
books WITH ISBN numbers, so I got the number for _A Wizard Abroad_ 
there. 

About Silverfox: lots of people have been saying various things about 
his sexuality. As best as I can remember, there is no strong evidence 
for gay, straight or bi so I prefer not to guess what he is (cause so 
far it isn't critical as to predicting the next book).

Rainwood made a comment about Misty's move toward a "One True Way" 
not necessarily being a bad thing because her way is a nice way. My 
response to that is this. A world where everything is nice and most 
bad things don't happen (for whatever reason) would be WONDERFUL in 
real life. But this is fiction, and a world where everything is 
almost perfect would be boring. Besides that, Misty's theme has been 
that there is no one true way (with a subtext of the Golden Rule/ 
Wiccan Rede). If she changes the theme I think she's gonna do 
something horrible to her writing. Not only that, but these books 
really encourage people to think about ETHICS. If she has a "One True 
Way", then some of the ethics may, scratch that, WILL be lost. 
Valdemar is an almost perfect society, but it looks like Karse could 
be another in a very different way. The Tayledras have got it good, 
but what about Rethwellan? It looks to me like their society is 
pretty darn good to, but it is different. I guess I'm talking about a 
Star Trek concept: Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination. It is 
something that Misty's books have, and I don't want her writing to 
lose it. I'm afraid that they are starting to.

I don't think that was my third rant in three days. Was it?

Emily the invisible
Bye,
Emily Cartier

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:09:25 -0500 (EST)
From: undine <stafford-+AT+-iac.net>
To: list lackey <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Oops!/Bunnicula/Dune/Duane/MZB
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.961101172318.18553A-100000-+AT+-little-miami.iac.net>


My Most Sincere Apologies are extended to My Ever Charming & Gracious High
Priestess Jenna and to Stormcloud who is not a Priestess at all! ;> And as
far as altar boys go, Cobweb is currently offering feet massages (the
nifty kind with hammers) along with Chocolate Chocolate Chip Cookies
(recipe from _Death by Chocolate_ by Marcel Desaulnier) *drool*
*************************

Summersong, _Bunnicula_ is the first in a series of books by James Howe. 
The books, about the Monroe family, are written by Harold the family
dog with assistance from Chester, the always suspicious cat. 
Bunnicula is a bunny that the family adopts after finding him abandoned in
a theater. When vegetables drained of their juice begin turning up,
Chester suspects that Bunnicula is a vampire rabbit. The other books in
the series are: _The Celery Stalks at Midnight_,_Nighty Nightmare_,
_Howliday Inn_, and _Return to Howliday Inn_. Fun reading!
*************************

About Diane Duane's books: _So You Want To Be a Wizard_ was reissued as a
$6 paperback in May (in the US). _Deep Wizardry_ is due to be re-issued
this month.  And I'm assuming that the other 2 books will be reissued next
year. I couldn't wait that long so I ordered a copy of _Wizards Abroad_
from a British import company. It's so hard to wait for the US release of
books knowing that they're available now in the UK (like _Interesting
Times_ or _Maskerade_). Sure, I believe in instant gratification ;>
********************************

Kory, I received copies of _M is for Malice_ last week. So I imagine that
it's available across the country. Did you really like Dune (the movie)? 
Lots of things about the movie bothered me (Big surprise ;>) Like what was
with that cheesy effect to make the Fremen's eyes blue? Or that silliness
about the "weirding way" that obviously had nothing to do with the Bene
Gesserit? I think that it was an overly ambitious project.  Perhaps if the
movie's creators had focused on one aspect of the book (like the
Atreides-Harkonen feud) instead of trying to translate the entire thing
into a celluloid space opera.

Is Terri Windling still editing the Fairy Tale books? The only things I've
seen her name on (as an editor) recently are anthologies like the Year's
Best Fantasy & Horror collections and the fairy tale anthologies that she
also co-edits with Ellen Datlow. But I've not noticed any novels. 

Heather, if you enjoy fairy tales, have you read anything by Angela 
Carter or Alison Lurie? I enjoy both of them a great deal. I'm currently 
pining for a complete collection of Angela Carter's short stories *drool*  

************************************

You are quite welcome Your Gothness of Ptyppers. As soon as I see more 
info about _Shadow Matrix_, I'll pass it along. And you're soooo right 
about _Exile's Song_ just coming to a halt. Argh! Could it be another 
case of bookus interruptus? ;>
***********************************

Mel, please read SB. Even for all of my carping about Mutant Squids and
boring Empire bits, it's the better book by far, IMO. Danya's correct
about _Silver Gryphon_ being good only as a doorstop. Or you could use it
as the proverbial blunt object *weg*
*******************************

Undine
Bibliomancer of the LotPW

"A classic is something that everybody wants to have read and nobody 
wants to read." Mark Twain 





------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:18:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Nicole Dubuc <nicole.dubuc-+AT+-yale.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: lots of things
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.961104195453.5769B-100000-+AT+-minerva.cis.yale.edu>

Greetings!
I am back from a lovely weekend in the sun, and now I must face 40 degree
rainy weather agian (But it is kinda pretty, Oh Goddess of Crappy Weather.
Kinda.  Maybe worth half a Baily's Irish Cream sheep.  But only half) :)
	I too think that Karse was better off without Firecats so similar
to Companions coming into existence.  I much prefered when Altra was
portrayed as not needing food or being entirely mortal, because it was
something new.  I hope that Karse doesn't completely about-face and become
another Valdemar.  
	I believe awhile back someone was asking if they should read SG.
Oh read it, just check it out from the library.  Then you'll know what
we're complaining about, yet you won't be saddled with it.  It really
bummed me out.  I wanted to know more about Tad's twin, and Blade got on
my nerves (even more than Elspeth, originally!)!! Sorry, whoever I
offended.  Sheep dip anyone?
	The descriptions of the ripples that have been coming have been
awesome!  It was a nebulous concept for me when I was reading, and you
have cleared the questioning cobwebs from my mind.  I appreciate your
work, even if I am hoping to be the goddess of those who hate calculus.
Physics is okay though....
	For all the November b-days, I present to you a silver falcon 
fetish.  If invoked on a solstice night, you can become any creature you
choose for a twenty four hour period.  Plus, I send each of you a flock of
cyber sheep, dipped in chocolate.
	I recall reading (a looooong time ago) about filling out some kind
of paperwork to be a herald? or Taleydras?  Did I really read that?  Who
has that info?  I would be extremely appreciative (okay, I'd be your
worshipper for a day) if you  could send me that info.  Thanks heaps of
sheeps <g>.
	Has anyone read Yon Ill Wind by Piers Anthony yet? Ha!  This was a
blatant attempt to convert some of you to Xanth...
	I really liked The Fire Rose.  I wanted to get it for a while and
when I did, I started reading it in between classes (crossing the street
and the like, so I nearly got hit reading it, but it was a good book!).
Beauty and the Beast has always been my favorite fairy tale.  What was my
point in mentioningthis?  Ummm...Sorry, a chem midterm ate my brain.
	Wow!  I just wrote more than I ever have.  I'd better go do my
calc (Bleeechhhhh and other retching noises!).

Wind to your wings,
Ke'leecha (Praying feverently to be the goddess of diet coke, gryphons,
and Those who Hate Calculus)
___________________________________________________________________________
"Lux et veritas et non satis somni"- My version of the Yale motto

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.  Inside of a dog, it's too
dark to read."--Groucho Marx
___________________________________________________________________________


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 13:42:25 -0800
From: Jefferson or Rain <macstager-+AT+-earthlink.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: 1 true way
Message-ID: <327E630A.2E5B-+AT+-earthlink.net>

Emily L Cartier wrote:
> 
> Rainwood made a comment about Misty's move toward a "One True Way"
> not necessarily being a bad thing because her way is a nice way.

Okay - whoa there, hoooooold on!  Actually - I didn't.  Or, if that is
what I said, that isn't what I meant to say.  The point that I am trying
to make is that Misty's worlds, characters and plots are, as a matter of
course, going to reflect her own world view.  And we each have one of
those.  And if my opinion is "there is NO one true way" then what am I
going to do when confronted by someone who thinks their way is the ONLY
way?  Of course, I am going to have to work very hard to allow them
their point of view.  Particularly when it directly conflicts with mine.
Does anyone understand what I am getting at here, which is sortof a
basic internal conflict inherent in the average human, IMHO?

 My
> response to that is this. A world where everything is nice and most
> bad things don't happen (for whatever reason) would be WONDERFUL in
> real life.

Personally, I kindof think of life as a crucible.  There is no growth
without pain, no advances without struggle.  Perfection breeds
complacency, and that would be terrible.

Not only that, but these books
> really encourage people to think about ETHICS. If she has a "One True
> Way", then some of the ethics may, scratch that, WILL be lost.

I agree.  One of the things that drew me to Misty in the first place was
the strong sense of ethics portrayed by her characters.  But, look at it
this way - those strong ethics are always the same, from character to
character, book to book, world to world.  Diana Tregarde has a heck of a
lot in common with Rune, Kero, etc.  So, there's a "One True Way" right
there.  Despite the differences of character and circumstance, I still
think she draws a commonality in all of her characters which reflects
the world as she would like it to be.  And the worlds those characters
inhabit are not always sweetness and light.  One of the things I liked
about Rosalind Hawkins in FR were that she was admittedly greedy for
pretty things, and, in my reckoning had some rather shallow "judgements"
going on.  All the while remaining a likeable and strong character.

>> I guess I'm talking about a Star Trek concept: Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination. It is something that Misty's books have, and I don't want her writing to lose it. I'm afraid that they are starting to.

You definitely have a good point there. And her last few books have been
depressingly *the same* as the ones before.  I loved FR and SGround for
that very reason - she seemed to wake up a little and go for something
different.  Unfortunately, even in Star Trek, I still think that all the
characters believe that "the federation way" is the one true way,"screw
the prime directive, everyone else will come around eventually."  Art
imitates life - and an artist will portray his own inner workings.  I
just don't want anyone thinking I am advocating "lets all be the same",
cause I'm not!  I am just pointing out my admittedly long-winded and
most humble opinion.  .  .which does not necessarily reflect anyone
else's, but I enjoy the discussion.

respectfully.

blessings - rainwood

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 20:30:58 -0500
From: Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Oops!/Bunnicula/Dune/Duane/MZB
Message-ID: <9611050136.AA23777-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net>

>Kory, I received copies of _M is for Malice_ last week. So I imagine that
>it's available across the country. 

Oh, it is..the day after I asked you, we got it;> Have yet to read it, 
tho, since I've been busy.

>Did you really like Dune (the movie)? 
>Lots of things about the movie bothered me (Big surprise ;>) Like what was
>with that cheesy effect to make the Fremen's eyes blue? Or that silliness
>about the "weirding way" that obviously had nothing to do with the Bene
>Gesserit? I think that it was an overly ambitious project.  Perhaps if the
>movie's creators had focused on one aspect of the book (like the
>Atreides-Harkonen feud) instead of trying to translate the entire thing
>into a celluloid space opera.

My memories are faint and hazy of the movie, as I haven't seen it for 
years...but while not EXTREMELY good, if you hadn't of read the book I 
suppose it would be a fun B-Movie;>

>
>Is Terri Windling still editing the Fairy Tale books? The only things I've
>seen her name on (as an editor) recently are anthologies like the Year's
>Best Fantasy & Horror collections and the fairy tale anthologies that she
>also co-edits with Ellen Datlow. But I've not noticed any novels. 

Well, I pretty much assumed she still was, since she still has her 
continual interest in fairy tale stuff, from her Realms of Fantasy 
articles, and from the continuing existence of the antholigies..but if 
you say they aren't being done anymore, then I suppose you are, however 
sorrowfully, right. I loved Tam Lin.

-+AT+-LIDNEROK___________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________KORENDIL-+AT+-
I|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High|I
C|Court, Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan,  |C 
U|God of All Things Nocturnal, Ailurophile, and  #Macintosh Op. |U 
B|______________________________________________________________|B
E|"This was a providential oppurtunity to eat one more apple    |E 
D| turnover before embarking on the unknown. Gavroche stopped,  |D 
.| fumbled in his trousers, felt in his fob, turned out his     |. 
N| pockets, found nothing in them, not a sou, and began to cry, |N 
E|'Help!' It is hard to just miss out on the ultimate cake."    |E
T|     --Victor Hugo's _Les Miserables_                         |T
 -+AT+-__________________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________________-+AT+-





------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 919
*********************************