MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 929

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Bdays/weiqi/languages/stuff
	by Jaguar <rholsen-+AT+-gateway.us.sidwell.edu>
  2) prayer
	by Rose <prose-+AT+-ctol.net>
  3) Yipes/Blues
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
  4) Re: Yipes!/Blues/braiding
	by ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com
  5) "enedra"/MM&M/Pegasus books/mucho Godly stuff
	by Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
  6) God on Our Side/How to get Archives/fluff
	by davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker)
  7) Storm Breaking; musings on courage and Misty's authorship
	by singer-+AT+-iglobal.net
  8) Ye gods, I got a nice welcome! :) (fluffy)
	by Melanie Harris <mmharris-+AT+-mat.army.defence.gov.au>
  9) When Irish Eyes are Braiding
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
 10) Re: mucho Godly stuff/Norton/Languages/that word/games
	by dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
 11) Prayer
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
 12) Re:  Singing solos/Languages
	by dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
 13) Braid:Romeo & Juliet/Songs/Umm
	by ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com
 14) language
	by ladyravn-+AT+-ADF.COM
 15) my name
	by "Emily L Cartier" <ecartier-+AT+-engr.udayton.edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:13:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Jaguar <rholsen-+AT+-gateway.us.sidwell.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Bdays/weiqi/languages/stuff
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.961107220920.29824B-100000-+AT+-gateway.us.sidwell.edu>

On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, Ken Hyde wrote:

> First, there is increasing evidence that the old theory that there is a
> "critical age" for learning languages (usually given as "up to age 5" or
> "up to 13" depending on your source) is fallacious.  While it is true that
> there are some physical changes in the brain during the first years of
> life, it is unclear how they relate to LangAcq (Language Acquisition).
> The differences in the situations of an adult language learner and a child
> language learner are so great that it is very difficult to make any claims
> about which of many possible variables is the key (if it isn't an entire
> complex).  
> 
	I think the idea behind this is a fairly valid one, but here's my
take on it (being a child raised in a household that spoke English and
Spanish with equal fluency): I think it doesn't really make a difference
in terms of LangAcq, but in terms of accent and how one thinks of
language. One, I've ended up with the weird side effect of speaking
foreign languages I learn now with a Spanish accent (!) and two, it's
easier to think of an object in terms of it's physical appearence, rather
than as a "table" or a "computer".


			Blessed be,
			    Jaguar


Leader of the Cat People      "Some try to tell me thoughts they cannot defend 
Goddess of Large Hunter Cats  Just what you want to be...you will be in the end
Chronicler of the Mage Wars   And I love you...."   
Lady in Green 		           --Moody Blues "Nights in White Satin"



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 22:12:24 -0500
From: Rose <prose-+AT+-ctol.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: prayer
Message-ID: <3282A518.7DD9-+AT+-ctol.net>

Have we ever come to a definative decision as to exactly why priests can 
not pray during war in Valdemar? I think it's not as much because of the 
no one true way, But because of the physical manifestations of G*ds. 
With so many different religions in Valdemar, some of the people's G*ds 
might not like each other very well and if were invoked at the same 
time, might start to fight amoungst themselves and be absolutely no help 
to the situation at hand and most likely be a detrement. Any ideas?
                            Dyana

------------------------------

Date:        Thu, 07 Nov 1996 17:41:58 CST
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Yipes/Blues
Message-ID:  <07NOV96.19115681.0029.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

<giggle> The same thing happened to me, several times.  For a while, I
just e-mailed Mel, and she fixed it for me.  Eventually, I got sick of
bugging her.  Now I just get two copies of everything.  Which means
every time I pick up mail I have 98 messages waiting, but I only have to
read half of them.  It's a very minor inconvenience.  Still, if you
*need* it fixed, Mel can do it for you.

In the Heralds series, it says that some Blues are serious students, and
some are just rich kids who have no place better to be.  Talia only
meets the latter group, and Karal only meets the former.  I'm sure there
are still nasty Blues in Valdemar, but they probably hang out someplace
a little cooler than the Compass Rose, and they are probably staying
quiet through the turbulent times.  Authority figures have a lot less
patience with annoying and childish behavior when they're trying to take
care of important things, and the petty Blues probably figured out real
quick that they wouldn't be indulged as much until the Ma'ar/Mage Storm
crises were well past.  Hello.  Gotta lay off the "probablys."

Trying very hard on the song question.  No Doubt's "Don't Speak,"
Firesong to An'desha?


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:55:06 -0500
From: ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Yipes!/Blues/braiding
Message-ID: <961107235505_1881446452-+AT+-emout11.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 96-11-07 12:38:48 EST, you write:

<< Something just occurred to me the other day.  I think I may have confused
 something, so I'll appreciate it if someone will set me straight if I did.
 In the Arrows trilogy (specifically AotQ) Talia has a _lot_ of trouble
 with some kids in school.  They try to kill her actually.  If I remember
 correctly, someone (Keren maybe) tells her that they're the Blues and to
 stay away from them if she can.  From this book I got the impression that
 all the Blues are rotten, nasty creatures who go around making life
 miserable for others.  Obviously, by SW this isn't the case.  The Blues
 are all very nice, creative, compassionate people.  What happened to all
 the bad apples? >>

They aren't all like that, it's mostly the highborns, you know the ones who
get sent to school so they're out of their parents hair. The ones who are
nice are the scholars and artificers, the serious students, usually lowborns
and minor nobility. However, not all highborns are necessarily like that
either. As in any school, you have your bullies and your good students. Hope
that helped! :)

Don't have much more to write at the moment, so that's it for now.

Blessed Be,

NightShade

OIB, LotPW, and (soon to be) High Priestess Of All Things Nocturnal

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:55:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: "enedra"/MM&M/Pegasus books/mucho Godly stuff
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.961107232502.11505F-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

> From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

ObMisty Alert!!!!!

> The root "she" as in she'chorne and, by extention, shay'a'chern, means
> "heart." We know this because "she'enedra" means "heart-sister," and we
> recognize "enedra" as related to whichever clan it is, the Deer Sibs, I
> guess, who have a similar term.  

Well, the Deer-sibs are Liha'irden.  And of the Clans that I rememeber,
(Tale'sedrin, Liha'irden, Pretera'sedrin, Vuysher'edras, and Jor'ethan),
none really have that "enedra" word.  Though "sedrin" is kind of close,
but we know that that means "children".

===========================================================================
> From: Renee Mic Markowicz <flare-+AT+-UDel.Edu>

obMisty Alert 2!!!! ( to make up for the rest of the fluff)

> To everyone who oh-so-kindly informed me of the location of Kerowyn's
> Ride, I thank you all.  Does anyone know where I can find the tape?  What
> else is on it?

You can get the tape from Firebird (I've got a link to their page on
mine).  I like all but two songs on it.  The playlist (with comments) is:

"Signy Mallory" (from _Downbelow Station_ by Cherryh.  I like the song)
"Eumenides"  (I like it)
"Medic" (from a never published, supposedly horrible Misty short story.
	 I like it)
"Gil-Shalos" (from Hambly's Darwath Trilogy.  I like it a lot.  It got 
	      me to read the series.  And I just finished _Mother of 
	      Winter_.  Liked it quite a bit)
"Lammas Night"  (cool song.  Aggravating ending :) )
"F.A.P." (Feline American Princess -- really, really annoying song)
"Wind's Four Quarters" (nice, but I like Fish singing it better. )
"Jirel of Jorey" (cool song.  Undine, dear Bibliomancer, I've got
	          to read it when it comes back in print.  If nothing
		  else, Jirel sounds cool, in a Kero-ish way)
"Golden Eyes" (from Misty's Witch World story, "Were-hunter"  I like it)
"Mis-Conceptions" (the other really, really annoying song)
"Of Cabbages"  (I think this song is just way cool. :) )

> >You know, but I just realized that my whole ecclesiastical organization
> >is made up of women. Odd. 
> 
> I guess you're just lucky, that way.  :D

Just rememeber the right gender to choose for virgin sacrifices. <gd,flh>

> My, my, my.  We seem to be aquiring quite a few worshippers, aren't we
> Mat?  You should take advantage and ask for tythes.  That way we
> can get all kinds of new accoutrements that the temple has been
> needing.  You know, like new lounges where your High Priestesses
> can while away the time that they might have spent on doing work...
> What do you think, Deniz?  Priestess Lounges sound good?  Anyway, when in
> Oathbreakers did Waarl say that? Help! I don't remember!

Yes, the Church of Procrastination is growing nicely, wouldn't you say?
Now if only the workers would actually get around to doing the renovations
to the temple.......

=============================================================================
> From: Stephanie <CALLISSD-+AT+-ed.concord.wvnet.edu>

>     I agree with whoever said that there should be a sequel to the 
> Pegasus in Flight books. They were really great (unfortunately I 
> haven't had time to re-read them lately). But I've always kinda 
> considered the Rowan books to be sequels since, IMHO, the Rowan is a 
> direct descendant of (oh!! what's her name? Rhyssa-is that even 
> close?) the woman with the white streak in her hair, star character 
> of Pegasus in Flight.

Ummmm, (sorry deniz, can't help it), it's Rhyssa Owen (daughter or
granddaughter of Daffyd op Owen). And I noticed that too.  Also, 
Earth Prime Reidinger is the descendent of young Peter Reidinger, 
first gestalter.

>     Also to the God of Procrastination: (and this message is WAY out 
> of date)  I am very sorry that I attempted to usurp your position and 
> I am thankful that you pointed out my error to me. I would also like 
> to thank you for your very generous offer to allow me to be your 
> avatar. If the position is still available, I would be very pleased 
> and honored to accept---just as soon as you tell me what exactly an 
> avatar is supposed to do.  Should I bring you gifts and offer you 
> bribes?  :)

Hmmmm.  Well, procrastinating in answering is in your favor.  But
I can't very well have someone who admits to "Loving" the dreaded
PA as my Avatar (not with the number of times _I've_ been attacked by
tMIW!).  And I wouldn't want to insult my High Priestesses by
putting someone over them.  So, how would you like to be an Acolyte?
I don't have any of _those_ yet.  

============================================================================
> From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA

> Mat, you sure are getting a bunch of us all of a sudden.  An avatar?  
> Impressive.  Wow.  I'm really getting to like this High Priestess thing.  Not 
> that I didn't before... it's just getting more and more varied. :-)

I think it's the fact that I'm probably the patron Deity of all College
Students. :)

============================================================================
> From: Jaiook Park <jpark-+AT+-mgs.schnet.edu.au>

> You mean someone's using a MAC???!!!

Isn't it scary?  <weg to Kory>

> I was also wondering how to become a god of something or another, do I have
> to rise  up in the ranks, suck up to The Almighty god of Procrastination or
> somethin'? 'cuase I'd like to be the God of the Super Ego

Nah. I may be growing in stature and worship lately, but I don't do
Namings.  That is the province of Lady Thessaly, Goddess of Nomenclature,
who's probably the head of the Pantheon of Modern Deities (esp. since
it was her idea :) ), but who is deep in work induced lurkerdom.
One must wait until her triumphant return, then petition her.

============================================================================
> From: Shadra <Dziedzic-+AT+-BrandonU.CA>

> upstairs from me!) A thought to all of you Worshippers of
> Procrastination--does your religion conflict with keeping up with this
> mailing list? It's not something to be easily "put off" ;-)

Nah, list reading is exempt from procrastination.  Tis the way to spread
My Word, after all. <g>

> Hey Deniz...
> Just what did you mean by "Shadra is a really interesting character who
> definitely tithes regularly to Mat, mine God." hmmm? <sly, but silghtly
> confused grin> 

Translation: "Shaydra is a really interesting person who procrastinates
regularly." :)

==========================================================================
For music, I listen mostly to filk, Heather Alexander, brit-pop (Erasure,
Pet Shop Boys, a bit of Depeche Mode), the Cranberries, REM, and TMBG.
With an occasional backslide to glam-rock. <g>


Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,     |"I raised my head, my arms like 
Adept, God of Procrastination      | lead, my heart ablaze once 
Heathen #???, and OoUL/L of tLotPW | more.  The Faerie Queen looked
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu         | down at me, shaken to the core."
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/  |  - Heather Alexander/Phil Obermarck


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:27:59 -0800
From: davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: God on Our Side/How to get Archives/fluff
Message-ID: <MkrgywHqhtJT088yn-+AT+-cet.com>

On Wed, 6 Nov 1996 Aistes wondered;

>I never really understood that.  How can they forbid a person to pray for a
>victory that would save live maybe or even be for the greater good.  How is

The best answer to  "WHy?" is an old Bob Dylan song called "God on Our Side"
Manfred Mann did a good version of it also.

Just a snip from it;
		 Well the second world war it came and it went
		 We forgave the Germans and now we are friends
		 though they murdered six million, in the ovens 
		 they fried. The germans now too have, God on Their
		 Side.
(btw, I know it was 12 mill but I didn't write the song)
The point is  **everbody** claims to have God(s) on their side in war and
I think Misty was trying to outlaw that. You might also check out Sky Pilot
by the Animals;
	      He blesses the boys as they stand in line
	      the smell of gun grease and their bayonets they shine
	      he's there to help them, all that he can, to make them 
	      feel {word forgoton, too much vino} he's a good holy man.

I think the feelings behind these songs is the one that inspired Misty here.

----------------------------------><++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On Wed, 6 Nov 1996 Mat the Cat in Green helpfully said;

>The archives are a library of darn near every digest ever to come
>from the list.  Plus, the FAQs are there.  Two ways of getting them.  By
>FTP, the site is ftp.herald.co.uk ,directory /pub/lists/lackey-archives
>The second is by WWW, the main URL(can't remember the exact archive one) 
>is http://www.herald.co.uk (look for local stuff)

And the thrid is to send a message to 
		    listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk
with blank subject and message
		    index mercedes-lackey      
				     [gets you the index of the archives]
or
		    get mercedes-lackey <file name>
				     [<file name> can be either the name of 
				     one of the archive files (gotten from
				     the index) or lackey_faq.x with x=1,2,3
				     4,5 or 6 to get the FAQ (hint) ]
and this method works even if you only have mail access! 8-{)#

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++><----------------------------------------

Musical likes huh?  Miller, Dorsey, Goodman, Fats Waller, Cab Calloway,
		    Moody Blues, Jefferson Airship, Black Sabbath(yeah, 
		    I know they're a Christain rock group but I like them), 
		    Jim Croce, Jimi, Janis, Mason Profitt, Queen, 
		    Harry Chapin, Guess Who, Melanie, Quicksilver, Mozart, 
		    New Christy Minstrels, Herman's Hermits, Bach, Tull,
		    CS&N, ok Y also, Irish Rovers, Cat Stevens, Floyd,
		    Led Zepplin (I-IV only), King Crimson, EL&P, ....
Want more?

Only one Misty book? Have to be Silver Gryphon.

Misty into movie-gods forfend!

David Tiffany, Gelded Typer

Plunder, v. To take the property of another without observing the 
	    decent and customary reticences of theft. To effect a 
	    change of ownership with the candid concomitance of a 
	    brass band. To wrest the wealth of A from B and leave 
	    C lamenting a vanished opportunity.  -Ambrose Bierce

PS. OK I'm joking, not SG. Probably Oathbreakers. 


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:08:28 -0600
From: singer-+AT+-iglobal.net
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Storm Breaking; musings on courage and Misty's authorship
Message-ID: <v01510100aea832de031b-+AT+-[207.43.170.33]>



S
P
O
I
L
E
R
*
*
*
S
P
A
C
E
****










I have had Storm Breaking for a couple of weeks now, and I am only now
finishing it.  I could have finished in two days at the most, but I think I
drew it out because I knew it would be the last new Velgarth novel I would
have for awhile.

I have just finished, and I was so emotionally overcome by the last 15
pages or so that I actually had to put the book down a couple of times.
The scene in the tower where Karal is saying goodbye to everyone ,,,,I am
still shaking with emotion.  I would not have that kind of courage. I
haven't responded to any book on that level in my life - not since _Magic's
Pawn_.

Misty still has it as an author.  Obviously she does, for a reader to
identify on such a deep level, to know and care for and wonder about the
characters she creates.  To us they are very real; think about this list if
you doubt that.  As for the turn the Velgarth novels seem to be taking, I
too have had concerns about Valdemar et all suddenly turning into computer
societies, but I don't really think this is a threat at this time.  Bridges
are one thing, and still quite removed from the Borg.  And Whatever
happens, I will continue to enjoy as I always have, because I *do care*
about these people and what hapens to them.  We all have our favorites, and
some books I have liked more than others - but I just enjoy the
progression.  There has to be some progression; Misty creates worlds for
us, creates situations.  And the characters' solutions to these situations
change everything, and then whole new situations develop that must be dealt
with.  This is life.  Nothing is static.  I dearly hope Misty doesn't carry
this too far out there, but I have great faith in her integrity and sense
of her world and her characters. I am still shaking.



                                Go Gently,

                                        Tresta

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Tresta shena Jor'ethan                          "Love must live free."
Healer to horses                                        -Shin'a'in Teaching

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%



%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

"To be tired of horses is to be tired of life; horses are a gift to us."

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%




------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 18:48:24 +1000
From: Melanie Harris <mmharris-+AT+-mat.army.defence.gov.au>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Ye gods, I got a nice welcome! :) (fluffy)
Message-ID: <3282F3D8.FD2-+AT+-mat.army.defence.gov.au>

'Fraid this message is going to be mostly me saying "ooo how nice" about 
various people's replies to my first post... sorry!

Korendil said:
> I am in awe. [munch] A newbie, by the gods, who has
> completed a task nay..not herculean...higher up..cennydd, find a word;P

Yeah, Cennyd (oh great and wonderful OoUL/L Mage with the Voluminous 
Vocabulary), find a word, please! I wanna know what to call what I did! <g> 
And ooooh no I'm not going for Goddess of Digests - I have a pretty good 
memory for things I read, but still, NO!!!!! NightShade, I may remember 
*about* the sheep and Bi- ah, Jake's creation (sorry Jake, I almost did it!), 
but I don't remember exactly *where* in the archives they are. And my sanity 
is not doubtful! It went out the window years ago! Jaiook, it took me about 
four and a half months. <smug> I read fast. Blame my mother - she taught me 
to read just before I turned two. (I am NOT kidding.) Then I taught myself to 
speed-read (at 6) and now I can't stop!

/\/\/\/\/\

Deniz said - hang on, I *think* it was Deniz, not Woodlark -
> Mel the Redcap said:
> >>Which is what Misty actally said. So she wasn't wrong! Hallelujah! Our
> Worshipful Author was correct! <ggg><<
> Textevd me, someone, please!  I'll be able to not make another circle 
> related post happily.  By the way, welcome RedMel!

I'll try to find textevd - I know it's in Storm Breaking somewhere... *ahem* 
Redcap, please - it's got a specific meaning <g> and the Ladies of the Pink 
Wand know why you shouldn't make Redcaps mad by messing up the name of their 
species! <ggg> (or at least they will know when they get the relevant 
post...)

> Hold up!  Where do you get your e-mail access from?  army? defense? govmt? 

At work - Australian Department of Defence, Army Materiel Division.

Um, Deniz, um, I don't know if you, um, realise this, but, um, sometimes when 
we're, um, thinking or, um, lost for words we just, um, have to, um, you know 
- say um. ;> :b :>

/\/\/\/\/\

Clarissa Smith wrote (perplexingly!):
> And hi to the new people. and a big AROOOOOO! to Mel the Redcap. ;)

<puzzled look> "Arooooo"? <pedantic voice> Is there a particular significance 
to "Aroooo" that I'm missing? Is the number of o's important?

And HI!!!!! to all the people who've made their appearance since I did. (Ye 
gods you're recent arrivals! <g>)

/\/\/\/\/\

Shadra said:
> I have to say hats of to all of you who keep up with this list on such a
> regular basis! I can only check my mail every couple of days...what a job! 
> I hope that will excuse me if I seem to enter a discussion late in the
> game.

Don't worry, Shadra, from what I've seen <portentous voice> Going Through The 
Archives, it's normal for people to get behind and make posts about topics 
that started last week...

> And Mel--going through the archives! (For that I'll send you the next
> primary feather my cat manages to snatch from the bondbird that lives
> upstairs from me!)

Um, it's a nice thought, but - er - no offense, but I don't wanna marry you! 
My boyfriend wouldn't understand! Hang on, would it still count seeing that 
it isn't YOUR bondbird? Aha! An ObMisty! A thin one, but it's there! What 
happens if A gives a feather from B's bondbird to C? Does it still count as 
giving a bondbird feather - ie, "I want a serious relationship" - or does it 
count as just giving any feather, ie, "I want to sleep with you"? What if A 
doesn't *have* a bondbird at the moment, and doesn't have any feathers saved 
from a previous bondbird, but wants the commitment? Can B give A feathers to 
use as if they were from A's bondbird?

> A thought to all of you Worshippers of Procrastination--does your religion
> conflict with keeping up with this mailing list? It's not something to be
> easily "put off" ;-)

No, we're still procrastinating - we read the list instead of doing Boring 
Real Life Stuff, like homework, or typing, or filing or whatever. ;> (By the 
way, Mat - kowtow, kowtow, worship, worship, worship. <g>)


Mel the Redcap
Potential Goddess of Supernaturally Scary Socks - *not* *digests!*

------------------------------

Date:        Thu, 07 Nov 1996 23:02:44 CST
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: When Irish Eyes are Braiding
Message-ID:  <07NOV96.24889309.0166.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

I never felt like the Karsites were very Middle Eastern in flavor; I
thought of them as Germanic.  This may just betray my middling knowledge
of the Middle East, but I can't see it.  Yes, the Karsites are extreme
monotheists, but so were the Puritans.  That doesn't jump out at me as
exclusively Middle Eastern.  They have a kind of Teutonic solemnity and
austerity, IMO (remember Our Lady of Perpetual Responsibility, the
Lutheran church in Lake Woebegon? <g>).  You just have to play Wagner in
the background whenever the Karsites show up.  Then again, I could be
completely reading this into the text where it doesn't exist, just on
the basis of the language, which is constantly described as gutteral and
contains names like Alberich and Ulrich.

I don't know.  I like saying "um." Sometimes it's very expressive of my
thought processes.  Do we have to stop using a common English
interjection on an English-language list because it has another meaning
in Turkish?  "Bus" means something obscene in Hungarian, but it's still
the best way to describe a certain mode of transportation in English.  I
should probably quit using "um" altogether, just because it really has
no meaning, but I *like* being able to type my thoughts exactly,
complete with filler and dross.  I just...don't know.

I have no real aptitude with languages.  I took a lot of Spanish and a
little Latin, none of which I remember.  But then again, I'm not the
most creative person in the world, in spite of being a writer.  My only
natural gifts are a) a knack with words and b) a great and abiding
fascination with people and their motivations.  Everything else is hard
work for me.  On the other hand, my she'enedra, who dearly loves
languages of all stripes, is a natural storyteller and, I think, much
more creative in general than I am.  That's how we write so well
together: she comes up with a framework, the general
this-happens-this-happens-this-happens of a story, and I fill it with
characters, thereby generating about a billion new plot ideas between
us.  Works beautifully.

When talking about our favorite Velgarth race, I think we need to define
our terms a little.  Usually, in speculative fiction, "race" is used to
mean "species." In our own culture, though, we use the word synonymously
with "ethnicity," and often invent more meanings for it.  So if we mean
species, we're talking about Gryphons, kyree, humans, hertasi, whatever
-- but not Tayledras, who are human.  If we mean ethnicity, then we can
talk about Tayledras, Shin'a'in, whatever.  I just want to be clear.

I'm reading a lovely book -- The Book of Atrix Wolfe, by Patricia
McKillip.  I usually like McKillip but don't die for her, but this is by
far my favorite of her work.  I'm deeply impressed.  It's not quite as
esoteric as the Cygnet books, where I was often left thinking, "What
just happened here?" And I'm just more into it than I was into the
whatsit series, with Riddlemaster of Hed and Forgotten Beasts of Eld and
whatnot.  Anyway, I'd recommend picking it up if you see it.


HTH
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu
"You never know what goes on inside a giant badger."
    --Third Rock from the Sun

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Nov 96 03:16:15 -0500
From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: mucho Godly stuff/Norton/Languages/that word/games
Message-ID: <199611080826.DAA16689-+AT+-sirocco.CC.McGill.CA>

Mat, mine God, wrote:

>Ummmm, (sorry deniz, can't help it)
 ^^^^^
Do you really want me to tell you what it means?  If anyone does ask, I will 
respond privately.  We do have sensibilities to consider.

>> From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
>
>> Mat, you sure are getting a bunch of us all of a sudden.  An avatar?  
>> Impressive.  Wow.  I'm really getting to like this High Priestess thing.
>> Not that I didn't before... it's just getting more and more varied. :-)
>
>I think it's the fact that I'm probably the patron Deity of all College
>Students. :)

Ayah!  That, too!

>> From: Shadra <Dziedzic-+AT+-BrandonU.CA>
>> Hey Deniz...
>> Just what did you mean by "Shadra is a really interesting character who
>> definitely tithes regularly to Mat, mine God." hmmm? <sly, but silghtly
>> confused grin> 
>
>Translation: "Shaydra is a really interesting person who procrastinates
>regularly." :)

Yup.  Shadra, let me jog your memory (ah-hah! that's where Firemist got her 
leash from! I may be slow, but I get there in the end!) Remember you sent me 
that first issue of Collegium News where you basically procrastinated your way 
out of writing the editorial chatting with your Companion?
)))))))))))))))))))))))
Undine sent:
>>I heard some sad news today. Andre Norton ( a fave author of mine) had to
cancel an author appearance due to poor health. She was actually admitted
to a hospital. Not a good sign anytime but especially not when you're 84! 
Anyway, I hope that you'll remember her in your thoughts and prayers.<<

Nooooo!!!!!  Not Andre Norton!  She was my introduction to Sci. Fi.!  I'm 
praying, all right.  Who knows, maybe Mat could get Death to procrastinate a 
little longer.
(((((((((((((((((((((((
Firemist mused:
>>I would have thought that in order to communicate mind-to-mind, one has to 
focus and organize one's thoughts into actual sentence structure, otherwise it 
would be hard to tell the thought that should be communicated from the rest of 
the surface 'clutter' .<<

Ah-Hah!  Remember when Starwind is training Vanyel in the underground chamber, 
and won't answer him unless he shapes his mindspeech into words?  Interesting. 
 Maybe the effort involved in shaping the words and sentence structure help 
clarify the intuitive meaning so that the brains can translate?

>>  OTOH, it's my personal pet theory that people good at math are usually
abyssmal at learning new languages. Of course, this is just me scrabbling
for a reason to explain my lack of foreign language acquistional capability<<

It might be a scrabble, because I consider myself good at math, yet I think 
well enough in both French and Turkish to dream in them.  Well, the French 
much more than the Turkish.  
***********************
Mel the Redcap (see? I can get it right.) said:
>>Um, Deniz, um, I don't know if you, um, realise this, but, um, sometimes 
when we're, um, thinking or, um, lost for words we just, um, have to, um, you 
know - say um. ;> :b :><<

No, not everyone does it.  Mostly people from the U.S.  You are an extremely 
obsene person, and just for that I'm mailing you a brutal translation of the 
word.  Also, did you know that during the Cold War, the Russians would spot 
American spies by their use of said afore(over)mentioned word.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Shadra said:
>>ObMisty: What sort of recreational games can you see Misty's characters
getting involved in? Capture the flag with gryphons? <shudder><<

Wait a minute... this question looks hauntingly familiar <pulls out 
aforementioned issue of Collegium News> <pauses, because it is lost already.> 
<shrugs> well, I know I've seen you ask this question before... did anyone 
answer it?

love,
deniz sarikaya, High Priestess |I was a brassbound Idealist in those days.
of Procrastination and Holy    |If you are an Idealist it does not matter
Custodian of the B-Day List.   |what you do or what goes on around you
Confused?  Write me!           |because it isn't real anyway.
                 dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA    -- Robert Penn Warren

------------------------------

Date:        Thu, 07 Nov 1996 23:52:20 CST
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Prayer
Message-ID:  <07NOV96.25782074.0166.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

I don't think we have any reason to believe that Velgarthian deities
fight amongst themselves, do we?  The only near-example would be
Vkandis, and he doesn't really seem to have been in favor of bashing the
faithful of other religions, in spite of the fact that he lent his name
to the effort.

In fact, I'm of the suspicion that there *aren't* a lot of deities in
Velgarth.  We know Vkandis is real, and we know the Star-Eyed is real.
We know Mero's religion is right out, because there are at least two
gods (unless you consider The One some kind of George Lucasesque "Force"
that is over and above the gods themselves, but then we're talking about
different definitions of "god," not just different gods, and this could
be a post all its own, so I'll just quit now).  Who else do we really
know?  Well, Vanyel's folk worshipped Kernos and...Astera of the Stars.
Of the Stars?  Hmph, sounds familiar.  There's no real evidence that
Kernos is Vkandis, or that all the other gods are Vkandis and all the
goddesses Kal'enel, but it's a theory all the same.

Misty obviously has some background in Wiccan thought, and Wiccans
believe near-universally (as in, as far as I know, universally, but
there are always exceptions I'm not aware of) that there is only one
Goddess and one God, and they simply appear in different aspects under
different names.  So it's not too hard to believe she might have adopted
the idea to use on Velgarth.  We already have evidences of individual
deities appearing in multiple aspects on Velgarth -- the Maiden,
Warrior, Mother and Crone who are all Kal'enel and the Rover, Warrior,
Hunter, and Guide who are all the unnamed Shin'a'in God.  Who's to say
that Kal'enel doesn't have other aspects, like Astera or the Holderkin
goddesses whose names I forget, but one is a domestic goddess and the
other, I think, a horse goddess?

However, it's obvious that the Valdemarans don't know this, even if it
is true.  And maybe they do believe that the gods fight amongst
themselves, since humans probably malign each other's gods on a regular
basis, claiming that their own gods feel the same way.

But until we see a deity actually influencing/appearing on Velgarth who
is *definitely not* either Vkandis or Kal'enel, I'm sticking with the
two-god theory.  After all, Kal'enel says something that sounds very
like that to Tarma in Oathbreakers.  She assures her that she can trust
the Valdemarans because they, too, worship Kal'enel under a different
name.  I'm pretty sure I remember this corretly, but someone might want
to look it up to be certain.  I'll hunt for it when I go home this
weekend.


HTH
r618-+AT+-academics.truman.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Nov 96 03:35:32 -0500
From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re:  Singing solos/Languages
Message-ID: <199611080845.DAA19516-+AT+-sirocco.CC.McGill.CA>

<sneaking up to computer now that deniz has finished posting>

>Lady Sophia turns off the radio long enough to reply:
>
>The Goddess of Music and Song will be very, very, very cross indeed if Her
>acolyte, Lady Woodlark does not receive the solo part in Faure's Requiem.

So shall I.

>However,
>should Lady Woodlark *not* receive the solo part, she should remember that
>the Goddess of Music and Song Herself was rejected for the very same solo
>part in the very same work not once, not twice, but three times.  (That
>part is especially tricky - they want to hear you, but they want you to
>sound like a boy soprano!).  

I just found out another reason tonight why she still has to "sleep on it."  
She still has to audition two counter-tenors!  Aaaagghhhh!  Imagine the 
choir's surprise if (not to mention my embarrassment), after having had me 
sing it in front of them, she has one of them do it, after all!

It definitely is hard to sing, and I am glad to know mine Goddess understands 
my hardships so well.

<cue Byrd's Ave Verum>

>(perhaps I should change my name to the Goddess of Music, Song and
>Rejection!)

I'm glad mine Goddess can laugh at herself... at least, i hope you were 
*laughing* at yourself?

Heather's note just came in, and i'm going to answer them real quickly before 
deniz hears about them and decides to go on a rampage.  She can overreact, 
sometimes.  I ought to know -- i live with her.

>>I never felt like the Karsites were very Middle Eastern in flavor; I
thought of them as Germanic.  This may just betray my middling knowledge
of the Middle East, but I can't see it.<<

Well, looking at deniz, who grew up in the Middle East, yadda-yadda, and 
remembering the feel from Judith Tarr's (Golden Horn, etc.) books, I would say 
they definitely have the same feel.  Also, Arabic is an extremely harsh and 
guttural language, nowadays.  Koranic Arabic, on the other hand, is so 
beautiful and liquid, it is *sung*!  Can you imagine hearing prayers *sung* 
from towers five times a day?  *Sumptuous*!

>>I don't know.  I like saying "um." Sometimes it's very expressive of my
thought processes.  Do we have to stop using a common English
interjection on an English-language list because it has another meaning
in Turkish?<<

Yeah, deniz is getting pretty militant about that, isn't she?  I think i'll 
delete this message before she reads it so she doesn't throw a hissy.  I need 
to sleep tonight, you know?  I don't think you have to stop using it.  I think 
she just wanted everyone to be aware of what they were saying, and how a 
Turkish person (or anyone who spoke Turkish) would react.  Me?  I've gotten 
used to saying uhhh, euh, ben (nasal, from French), alors, well, etc.  Living 
with a militant anything gets things drummed into one's hide <sorry it's such 
a cheap pun, but i never claimed to be good at them>.  At least she limits 
what she's militant about to a few things.  What are they?  You'll have to 
find out the hard way, like i did!

love,
free bard woodlark, Acolyte in |On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur.
Music and Song, and not deniz  |L'essentiel est invisible pour les
at all, even though i know her |yeux.
username and passwords. <weg>  |     --  Antoine de Saint-Exupery
                 dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 04:43:25 -0500
From: ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid:Romeo & Juliet/Songs/Umm
Message-ID: <961108044323_1748072589-+AT+-emout14.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 96-11-07 22:01:03 EST, Shaydra wrote:

<< I must agree that R & J is quite sappy (I'm a MacBeth person myself), but
I
 did see a performance by the Royal Winnipeg Ballet where, in the last scene,
 Juliette wakes up after Romeo has taken the poison, but the poison is slow
 to act. Romeo sees Juliette wake and realizes his horrible mistake at the
 same moment as Juliette realizes what Romeo has done...painful and
 beautifully tragic. It had me in tears. >>

Shaydra, I personally love R&J, no matter how sappy. However, trust me on
this, given your reaction to the above mentioned ballet, if you go to see the
new movie version I don't think you'll be disappointed <shamelessly promoting
new movie (g)>.

=============================================================
Hth wrote:

> Trying very hard on the song question.  No Doubt's "Don't Speak,"
> Firesong to An'desha?

Oh, definitely! I hadn't thought of that, 'course the fact that I haven't
really tried to do any matching with that stuff yet could have something to
do with it . . . <g>.

=============================================================
Deniz wrote:

> Mel the Redcap (see? I can get it right.) said:
>>Um, Deniz, um, I don't know if you, um, realise this, but, um, sometimes 
> when we're, um, thinking or, um, lost for words we just, um, have to, um,
you 
> know - say um. ;> :b :><<

> No, not everyone does it.  Mostly people from the U.S.  You are an
extremely 
> obsene person, and just for that I'm mailing you a brutal translation of
the 
> word.  Also, did you know that during the Cold War, the Russians would spot

> American spies by their use of said afore(over)mentioned word.

Hmm, that's frightening. However, you should be grateful I did not do what
Mel did, and believe me it was tempting. When someone says not to say a word
because it means something obscene, well, I tend to take great pleasure in
doing so anyway, I'm just perverse that way <shrugs> <g>. Sooo, you should
send me that definition too, my imagination is probably good enough, but
still . . . inquiring minds want to know <g>.

Short one tonight . . . gotta do something 'bout that <g>.

Blessed Be,

NightShade
OIB, LotPW | Bonfires Dot The Rolling Hillsides
and (soon to be) | Figures Dance Around And Around
High Priestess | To Drums That Pulse Out Echoes Of Darkness
Of All Things Nocturnal | Moving To The Pagan Sound - Loreena McKennit - All
Soul's Night - The Visit CD

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 06:38:44 -0500 
From: ladyravn-+AT+-ADF.COM
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: language
Message-ID: <TCPSMTP.16.11.8.6.38.44.2374877875.240447186-+AT+-ADF.COM>

ME>Do Companions ever have problems communicating with their Chosen, or
ME>others, who are from OutKingdom?  Do they just get the ability to
ME>understand any language when they get reincarnated, or Grove-born?
ME>Jacquelle

ME>Oh, very clever, Worf.  Eat any good books lately?
ME>--Q


I would that the because the Companions speak mind to mind there would
be less of a problem, w/ mind's you can use images instead of words that
the humans must learn.  However I could be wrong in this. :)

LadyRavn



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:16:45 -0500
From: "Emily L Cartier" <ecartier-+AT+-engr.udayton.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: my name
Message-ID: <9611081318.AA04236-+AT+-udecc.engr.udayton.edu>

Dax the Eternal said:
>Emily the invisible, an early Happy Birthday, and I gift you with a 
>guardian unicorn to watch over you so that no one runs over you or 
>bumps into when you're invisible.

Thank you for your kind gift Dax. Now, where can I put this 
unicorn... It looks like my name is confusing people. The "invisible" 
bit refers to a spell in Misty's Urban Fantasies, generally described 
as the "Don't Notice Me" spell. It usually is cast on inanimate 
objects that frequently are stolen (cars, motercycles...) and it 
isn't true invisiblity because the thing is still there, and you can 
see it if you look for it but people's eyes sort of slide away from 
it and don't notice it. In real life I have a similar problem. I'm 
not invisible, but people don't usually notice me. I can walk through 
a crowd of my friends and family and most of them will never even 
realize that I was there... So I use the tag "invisible" to indicate 
that some mage must have gifted me with a don't notice me spell in 
the cradle or something.

Jaiook asked us what our fave races are in the books. I would have to 
say the kyree because they are closest to being sentient dogs, and 
having a kyree for a friend would be like having a dog for a friend. 
A lot of hard work, but the rewards would be worth it. The worst 
thing about college is that I am 8 hours away from my dog and I 
always worry about him. Any kyree that would pick me for a friend 
could get into college too, so I wouldn't have to worry about them.

Emily the invisible


------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 929
*********************************