MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 954 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) lifebond/Firesong/baddies/Winds by "Hth." 2) Evil Brothers by "Hth." 3) Evil Brothers; Oathbreaking by singer-+AT+-iglobal.net 4) Tithess????(Totally Fluff) by BudLor-+AT+-aol.com 5) Reply to: Tigana by Rozanna McNeer 6) Evil Brothers continued by singer-+AT+-iglobal.net 7) Re: lifebond/Firesong/baddies/Winds by Hades16-+AT+-aol.com 8) Re: Egad! by Paradox 9) CONCISE Application/Apologies by Hades16-+AT+-aol.com 10) Reply to: Heavy cream (too heavy for fluff) by Rozanna McNeer 11) Reply to: Lifebonds/proposal/levinbolts/Goddess of D&L by Rozanna McNeer 12) Legend Fluff by Debra Cebulski 13) The miracle cream and Firesong by "Hth." 14) Re: Brvaes Valiantly Continues/Sophie B. song/ Disney Fluff by hallett-+AT+-sprynet.com 15) FLUFF!!! by Paradox 16) Firesong & One vs. Two gods by Renee Mic Markowicz 17) Re: bad guys by Chris & Sean Talbot 18) Re: Q? When is Florian going to Choose Karal/songs/Mishi's by Chris & Sean Talbot 19) Firebird/Evil antagonists/Bards:Heralds/AMcCaffrey/Lammas/Altra by "George Allison" 20) Yfandes by "JAIME HATHAWAY" 21) Minibraid Re: Firesong/quote/deities/foresight by infodyn-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy (Eleonora Scoseria) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:04:53 CST From: "Hth." To: Subject: lifebond/Firesong/baddies/Winds Message-ID: <15NOV96.23848166.0159.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> I think it's significant that both times we hear people talking about the longing and aching and all that, we're hearing about an *unfulfilled* lifebond. Sure, nothing is on Stef's mind but Vanyel, and nothing is on Talia's mind but Dirk. Twenty years from now, they'll be more mellow. Still not to say that they'd have affairs, because I doubt they would, but their extreme, intense reactions to the lifebond probably had something to do with how extremely, intensely frustrated those lifebonds were. Their situations don't necessarily tell us much about the experiences of every lifebonded couple in every society and in every stage of their relationship. That's all I'm saying. Regarding Firesong's jealousy. I think it was astutely pointed out that Firesong was *insecure.* He was in a weird situation with An'desha, being less adored than usual, and it was making him confused. So of course he was nervous and tightly-wound, especially with the mage storms thrown in on top of that. I think that in a more secure, lasting relationship when Firesong felt like he knew where he stood, he wouldn't be jealous, because he wouldn't be afraid of the future. He didn't strike me as the naturally possessive sort. Saying that a writer designed her villains to be cheesy and uncreative is, I guess, slightly reassuring, but I still found them...how shall I say...cheesy and uncreative. "Well, they're Evil Elves" is no real excuse for creating annoying villains, IMHO. Horribly, Monumentally, Unrelievedly Evil Villains, should, I think, be used sparingly, or the reader starts to go, "Christ, again? Didn't we defeat this dork in the last five series?" Sorry to step on your toes, Dax, but I think the urban fantasy books were rife with marvelous potential, but needed some serious help to get there, and that's one of the very majorest reasons. More negativity ahead! Yay!!! Grudgingly, I think you should read the Winds books. It just seems odd to read the trilogies before and after, but skip Winds. My neurosis about symmetry again. Of course, I thought the whole series was little short of a complete mockery of good storytelling. Whoever told her that series was ready for publication should be put up against a tree and shot. It did not neglect even one of what I find to be Misty's most annoying habits, and I thought it had precious few of her strengths. Then again, I'm the only person I've ever met who reacted this badly to it, so I probably don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Just read the trilogy. Sheepishly, I have to admit that I don't remember the glove passage in Tigana. Maybe it made perfect sense to me at the time, or maybe I just ignored it. Who's to say? HTH r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu Merry Meet and Merry Part and Mary Tyler Moore ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 22:34:54 CST From: "Hth." To: Subject: Evil Brothers Message-ID: <15NOV96.24388500.0159.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> Sounds harsh. I suggest that you be supportive of her wishes. From your comment beginning "what's worse..." it seems as though you would prefer that she have "bad feelings" toward her brother. I think that if she doesn't, you shouldn't wish that on her. Your outClan friend seems to be fairly level-headed about the matter. She realizes that nothing can change their past, and simply hopes to prevent further trouble in the future. This is sound and sane, I think. Support her in that desire and encourage her to stick to her battle plan by *refusing* to be lured back into a doomed relationship with him. You cannot cure this man. Without even knowing him, I would say that neither you nor his sister are in a position to change him in any significant way; only he can do that. All you can do is protect your friend, and I expect what that means is very simply *keep her out of his life.* Whatever his purposes are, as long as they are unrevealed, she should probably have nothing to do with him. That means don't go visit, don't even respond. One of three things are likely to happen: 1) He will give up when he realizes she is serious about being out of his life, and that no amount of persuasion will bring her back in, therefore his plans are destined to come to nothing. 2) If he is trying to reconcile with her or apologize, he will make that clear. He will send a letter, if there is no other way he can reach her. Then she can decide how willing she is to accept that. As someone else said, however, *regardless* of what he says, she really should not meet with him alone. If he is trying to atone and reconcile, he will understand and respect that. 3) If he becomes violent or stalks her, prepare to deal with him on legal ground. Record phone conversations, save letters, document everything, gather witnesses. And call the police. A restraining order is not the solution to everything, but in plenty of cases it's a damn good start. Encourage your friend to see a counselor. This is undoubtedly frightening for her, and if she is having nightmares about him on a regular basis, that's the kind of thing a good counselor can be a lot of help with. Now, having said all that, bear in mind that this is *not* the advice of a professional, and take it for whatever it may be worth. By the same token, and this is very important: remember that, though you love your friend dearly, *you* are not a professional either (I don't think), and there is no dishonor in simply telling her you don't know what to do, but you think she should find someone who does. My father is a psychologist, and one thing he impressed on me is that, no matter how well-intentioned you are, you should never attempt to handle a serious emotional problem if you don't have the training for it. I have worked in crisis centers, abuse shelters, and women's centers, so I have *some* training in the issues surrounding these kind of situations, which is the only reason I'm offering you any advice at all. I seriously suggest you encourage this lady to take her situation to someone qualified. All that said, I hope you do get some good out of all this talking I've just done. In a nutshell, do what you can to protect her safety and encourage her to talk with someone who will help her sort through her feelings, and I mean someone with training and experience that goes beyond what her friends and loved ones can provide for her. Beyond that, what you are probably best suited for is to make it very clear to her that she is trusted, valued, and well-loved. As they say in my world: May the goddesses of comfort keep you and yours, and may the gods of joy watch over you. Comfort and Joy, HTH r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 23:08:29 -0600 From: singer-+AT+-iglobal.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Evil Brothers; Oathbreaking Message-ID: On 11/16 Brandon wrote: >Tresta- >I should have braided this to my last post, but I only now remembered >it. If this brother is as bad as you say he is, he's most likely >wronged more people than your friend can name. There's always the >Oathbreaking. Hai. I had already though of this, and I think it would be most appropriate. But I need a priest and a mage.....anyone out there want to help? Thanks to all who have responded with support to my friend, Kayla. I'll make sure she knows she is less alone than she thought. Go Gently, Tresta %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Tresta shena Jor'ethan "Love must live free." Healer to horses -Shin'a'in Teaching %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "To be tired of horses is to be tired of life; horses are a gift to us." %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:14:05 -0500 From: BudLor-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Tithess????(Totally Fluff) Message-ID: <961116001404_704709924-+AT+-emout10.mail.aol.com> Lee asked what type of tithes I would like------well----in the event I am chosen to be the Goddess of Domesticity/Laundry------flowers will do--any type--and, once in a great while--a leetle bit of choc-o-late (NO NUTS) will do just fine. I've noticed many others tithe in chocolate---wonderful stuff, is it not? (I have just about every house- cleaning device known to man----what I would really like is a lifetime supply of paper towels---can't live without 'em, ya know). Busily thinking about the future, I remain Lorraine (?)Future Goddess of Domesticity/Laundry But I'm not dead yet! MP/Holy Grail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 01:10:44 -0500 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: Tigana Message-ID: <199611160111_MC1-C14-957F-+AT+-compuserve.com> I think single red gloves meant a) you were a courtesan/prostitute/lady of the night/ whatever - you catch my drift, or b) you were someone looking to have a good time with someone else. Firemist Blue wine, anyone? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:25:16 -0600 From: singer-+AT+-iglobal.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Evil Brothers continued Message-ID: When Heather responded to my post about Evil Brothers, she seemed concerned that I wanted my friend to harbor bad feelings toward her EB. I just want to say no; barbarian I may be, but I am not particularly bloodthirsty. What I meant when I said "What's worse, she truly does not seen to harbor bad feelings" (or something like it) was that the whole situation was worse *for Kayla* because she only wants to be left alone to put a life together for herself, and her EB won't even allow her that. She can find no peace from him when all she wants is peace, and to me that is as badly damaging to her as every other evil, selfish thing he has done. I would never encourage her to seek to harm him, and believe it or not, I don't have any desire to harm him. To hurt someone intentionally (other than in absolute self defense, and even then it would be *very* difficult) is something I am not capable of, no matter how justified it might seem. I only want Kayla away from him; to help build the peace for her that will allow her to continue. *Some* of my original post was just an attempt to release some of my own sadness and frustration, because the only thing I can really do for my friend is to be with her, and to make sure she knows she is cared for. Thanks to all of you who responded; I hoped that this might be a safe place to discuss such a thing, and from the response so far, I have not been mistaken. ObMisty: We musn't forget Raschar in our contemplation of Evil Brothers. Just remembered him. Do you suppose Tale'edras can have Evil Brothers? Go Gently, Tresta %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Tresta shena Jor'ethan "Love must live free." Healer to horses -Shin'a'in Teaching %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "To be tired of horses is to be tired of life; horses are a gift to us." %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 01:29:47 -0500 From: Hades16-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: lifebond/Firesong/baddies/Winds Message-ID: <961116012945_1715803325-+AT+-emout20.mail.aol.com> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Egad! Message-ID: <199611160646.WAA14129-+AT+-uclink4.berkeley.edu> At 11:47 PM 11/15/1996 GMT, Hth wrote: >How do you figure Hulda as being particularly interesting, Dog of >Pogyts? She was sadistic and power-mad and treated everyone as a tool >or an enemy. This sounds like every other Misty villain to me. The >only unique thing I recall about Hulda is that she was female, and >Misty's villains generally are not. What do you think makes her >different? I thought the same thing about Hulda. I mean the opposite of what you said,... I think. I mean, I think that I think that I think the opposite of what I think that you may have said,... I think. Anyway, I think that one of the reasons I liked her so much (weelll, not *liked* her exactly, but... (dodging stray cocnuts that seem to have my name on them)) was that we get to see more of her than most of the villians. She interacts with the characters we all like, plus that way we get to see such a dramatic change in Elspeth and in Talia. I kind of feel like, if she were all bad, she could not have cared for (taken care of) Elspeth at all, and I guess I give her some sympathy, and that is why she is different (In my mind, ... I think). None of the others inspire sympathy in me.....well, Maybe or not (I think). In addition, I have only got to ever hear 1 part of 1 of the CD's. I have heard, from my roommate that there are something like 7. True? I am very interested in finding a place to buy them or mail order, or whatever. Currently, I am in Northern CA, but I travel the LA area frequently (if that helps any). If not, just let me know where I can find them, how many there are, titles, things like that, so I can try to track them down. Your patience and kindness is emensely appreciated, As always, Faithfully (well, at least not unfaithfully) yours (I think), Briana _______________________________________________ :We only know what we're told, and that's little enough. And for all we know it isn't even true. :For all anyone knows, nothing is. Everything has to be taken on trust; truth is only that which is taken to be true. It's the currency of living. There may be nothing behind it, but it doesn't make any difference so long as it is honoured. One acts on assumptions. What do you assume? -Tom Stoppard, "Rosencrantz and Gildenstern Are Dead" _______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 01:47:30 -0500 From: Hades16-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: CONCISE Application/Apologies Message-ID: <961116014729_570523865-+AT+-emout17.mail.aol.com> First of all, I promise that I will put things on the mailing list that relate to Misty and are not overly digressive. Second of all, I formally request that the Goddess of Nomenclature, if she deems be to be so worhty, to grant me the title of God of Farfetched Theories and Mistconstrued Ideas with all the responsibilities and privileges attached to that office. Third of all, I evidently did not make myself clear on a point in my previous letter. I have written 70 pages SO FAR and plan to write a great many more once time permits. Thank you all who gave me info on publishing. PERTAINING TO MISTY!! Is it just me or did Firesong change slightly but deeply from the end of the Mage Winds to the Storms Trilogy? Firesong seemed more self-assured and controlled in the Winds, but in the Storms he seemed less aware of other people's thoughts and less the powerful Healing Adept he was portrayed to be in Winds. Albeit, Misty did write in there occasionally how he could still manipulate those he wanted to but I do not think that she gave many if any examples of that outside his ulitmately failed attempts. involving Andesha. Also, he whined more than I thought he should have about intuitive and logical approaches to magic. I realize that he was greatly changed by his "love" with Andesha as well as other things. Perhaps, there was no fundamental change between trilogies and this is just another one of my farfetched ideas. Oh well, maybe it will provoke some thought. The (aspiring) Illegitimate God of Farfetched Theories and Miscontrued Ideas Speaker of the House of Bargains as well as Last of the Clan That NeverHad More Than One Member ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 01:47:16 -0500 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: Heavy cream (too heavy for fluff) Message-ID: <199611160147_MC1-C0E-BE3B-+AT+-compuserve.com> todays misty trivia! the miralce cream! marigold and cinnamon! cinnamon for numbing and marigold for who knows what! ( i know marigold flower tea is good for menstrual cramps, but I don't think stef needs any relief in THAT department!) Help! i can't end a sentence with anything other than an exclamation point! ARGH! Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 01:56:11 -0500 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: Lifebonds/proposal/levinbolts/Goddess of D&L Message-ID: <199611160156_MC1-C04-2EDB-+AT+-compuserve.com> I said >>I can make everything from Apple-stuffed Porkloin to Zucchini Brownies. I make killer fajitas and have received no less than four marriage proposals for my dessert cooking skills.<< Rainwood said: >Skip the porkloin (I've just seen "Babe" too many times), but I'm with >deniz and woodlark - I'd like to marry you myself. Oh, wait, I'm >already married. Would you consider the life of an honored concubine - >kitchen duties only? YIPPEE SKIPPY blushes and thanks everyone who has proposed. However, I'm sure my husband would object strenuously to me marrying someone else However, I'll try to find anyone a recipe they are looking for, so long as they ask nicely. . . Firemist, aspiring Goddess of Made From Scratch Food ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 02:19:04 -0500 From: Debra Cebulski To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: Legend Fluff Message-ID: <01BBD364.8B03E820-+AT+-kerowyn> Quoth Renee: Heyla everybodee! Nice touch :) Firemist said: >Tangerine Dream? Legend Soundtrack? looks at own Legend sound track >quickly -- er, mine doesn't have >anything >by Tangerine Dream on it. . . Mine's all by Goldsmith. . . I'm >confuzzled.=20 >Are there *two* soundtracks??? I didn't know they were still selling "Legend" soundtracks! Where did = you find one? Helphelphelp! I got mine at Strawberries, but CDNow has it in stock (I just checked). = If your local record store doesn't have it in the Soundtracks section, = don't despair--try the New Age section under Tangerine Dream (that's = where I found mine). Hope that helps. ObMisty (kinda): Has anyone heard about the status of Misty's supposed = Darkover collaboration with MZB? I had heard that they were supposed to = write a book together, but the only thing that they've cowritten since = Rediscovery (to my knowledge) was Tiger Burning Bright with Andre = Norton. All the best, Deb Cebulski Lady of the Pink Wand kerowyn-+AT+-waltham.harvard.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 01:49:21 CST From: "Hth." To: Subject: The miracle cream and Firesong Message-ID: <16NOV96.01968608.0050.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> Yikes. Avoid that train of thought. Moving on.... I was so close. I was thinking butter and marigold. Was there, perhaps, a butter-base to the cream? Nevertheless, I forgot the cinnamon, so no good. Okay, here's a trivia question that should be easy for y'all: to what does Randale compare Stef's hair at their first meeting? Direct quote. Sorry, I have no books handy to help me come up with a good, obscure one. I should never have composed that subject line. Now I'm unable to stop wondering exactly how many uses there were for Vanyel's magic cinnamon and marigold substance.... Oy, you can tell what hour of the night Heather's taken to posting. But Firesong, yes. Well, I think there wasn't so much a sudden change in his personality as that his darker side was brought out. In Winds, when everyone was hailing him as their savior, he was witty and confident and charming and so forth. The Storms series is the first time that Firesong has ever sincerely been out of his element. He is in a foreign country with strange customs, far from his friends and family. He is in a relationship that he really wants to work out, but isn't working out, and he's not too sure why -- you definitely get the feeling not many people show Firesong the door, and he is really not enjoying the experience. He is also being very publicly shown up in his profession, where he used to be considered a great authority. Now a bunch of kids who don't know thing one about magic are severely outclassing Firesong. We all have a less pleasant aspect to our personalities, and it always seems to come out when we feel confused and threatened, when our lives are slipping out of our control and we feel like we're losing face and our lovers don't want us as much as we want them and we are generally unsure where our lives are going, but pretty sure it's the wrong way. In Firesong's case, he becomes more stubborn, more defensive, more self-pitying. He's pretty human that way. Dirk's response to those feelings was to get smashed. Vanyel's response to hating his life was to lock himself in his room and torture himself by fixating on his dead lover. I liked Firesong, because he responded to feeling rotten in an imperfect way, and as I've said, I think far too many of Misty's characters are perfect. Or -- this came up in a conversation with my she'enedra over the weekend -- they have almost admirable imperfections. Talia was too scared to ask for help, Vanyel isolated himself too much because he didn't want to hurt or mislead anybody, Elspeth was stubborn, but it always turned out for the best in the end. Firesong turns into a first-class bitch, which is a real flaw. Only by understanding the *whole* Firesong does it begin to make some sense that a guy who can sometimes be such a jerk also has the respect and friendship of some very fine people. And to whoever -- Brandon, is that it? -- made the comment that he hoped his post wasn't too serious, relax. If deep soliliquizing (word? help?) wasn't allowed on the list, I would have been bounced sometime over last March. (Not that I'm that deep. Except in the sense of "it's getting pretty deep around here....") HTH r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu Merry Meet and Merry Part and Mary Tyler Moore ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 01:04:08 -0800 From: hallett-+AT+-sprynet.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Brvaes Valiantly Continues/Sophie B. song/ Disney Fluff Message-ID: <199611160904.BAA17474-+AT+-m4.sprynet.com> I'm sorry I can't give attribution for this quote; I came across this second hand on someone else's message and haven't read the original posting yet: (always behind on the mail lately!) >ObMisty (just in case I need one): Does anyone else like the art on LHM's >covers? LOVE IT! ADORE IT! THINK IT'S THE BEST! Of course that might have just a little something to do with the fact that I'm a certified Vanyelmaniac but... We even have some of the Jody Lee prints from TLHM decorating our home. An AP print from MPrice (my favorite) hangs proudly above our couch. The art for MPawn is displayed above our bed. (yum yum!) Actually I've yet to see any artwork from Jody Lee that I didn't like, though I do like some better than others. I'm sorry this wasn't braided into the other comments I've made lately. I've been fairly quiet on this list lately and I wasn't expecting to post as much as I have in the past 28 hours or so, but I guess three individual posts isn't too bad. Whomever suggested the use of Sophie B. Hawkins "Damn I wish I Was Your Lover," I LOOVVEEE that song!!! I especially love the way she and Melissa Etheridge perfomed it on Duets. (Did anyone else notice the tinest of a giggle and a shrug as Sophie sang passionately to Melissa's rear end? Gotta giggle on that one!) Warning: If you dare to continue, you will enter (imagine dramatic music here) THE FLUFFY ZONE! Delete if you like, of course. If you're out there DISNEYLAND (or is it world?), **ALL HAIL THE MOUSE!!!** fellow Disney fan!!! e-mail me personally if you ever care to chat all things Disney! Hugs, pugs, rugs and all that good stuff! Arielle, Goddess of Mispelling, Mistress of typo;s "I hate your polyester pantsuits And your greasy hair, And that stuff between your braces And your hairy derriere You make me really sick... But I love you" ~from You Stink But I Love You by B. Catt (What can I say? I'm in a Bloom County mood today. *giggle*) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 02:52:00 -0800 (PST) From: Paradox To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: FLUFF!!! Message-ID: <199611161052.CAA20817-+AT+-uclink4.berkeley.edu> At 07:01 AM 11/13/1996 GMT, Mel wrote: > >Nyah ha hah! hmmm... I seem to have gotten here before Mishi, >as far as I can tell (of course, I *am* on digest, but who cares?), soooo... >*POUNCE!*crash!tinkletinkletinkle*spunnnnng*dink... dink... dink... It is so good to have found you!! >oooooops. Sorry. I keep forgetting that 7' tall Redcaps shouldn't pounce on >people... *ahem* hope you're OK... that was *supposed* to be a friendly >welcome. Of course, and here is a for all of your efforts!! =============================== > >Deniz wrote (about Briana) >> You're a newbie? weren't you posting last month when I >> joined? > > Er, I think that was *Herald* >Briana. Am I right? You still there? Hallooooo.... nice person dressed in >white who was around before-*ahem* sorry, private joke... That is right ( I mean that there are 2 of us, well, not 2 of *us*, I mean I am not schitzephrenic (you know one of those multiple personality things) or anything, but that there are 2 seperate people with the same name, except that oneof us (not me her) is a Herald. I just considered going by my faire name, Deidre, but that may be too confusing. I was going to try to do a braid, but then after (I thought) I read all of the messagesfor today I only had one thing to say, so I only sent, then, just as I was getting ready to log off deleting messages and such, there was this whole section of about 15 messages that I found marked unread. UUUGGGHH!!!! So, that my excuse for today. Maybe tomorrow. (Or maybe tomorrow I will have another excuse :> ) Ok I think I got them all. Thanks all for your un-ending patience. It's all fluff to me! Briana ================================= "Don't forget to breathe,...in and out." --Grover ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:59:50 -0500 (EST) From: Renee Mic Markowicz To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Firesong & One vs. Two gods Message-ID: Heyla baaaaybeh! <*G*> Forgive me, I deleted the post before I saw who wrote it: >Is it just me or did Firesong change slightly but deeply from the end of the >Mage Winds to the Storms Trilogy? Firesong seemed more self-assured and >controlled in the Winds, but in the Storms he seemed less aware of other >people's thoughts and less the powerful Healing Adept he was portrayed to be >in Winds. Aside from the more concrete, actual emotional reasons for the change (I think someone covered them already), there was that whole bit about the mage storms affecting his mind. It's in SR somewhere. Silverfox explains that the mage storms are physically affecting his brain and therefore affecting his personality. Maybe the original course for the change was already there, but the mage storms made it that much more noticable. (sp?) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dyana wrote: >Obmisty: If it was possible to use a neuter term in reffering to G*d, >(not it because of the inanimate connotations it has) do you think that >Misty would have one G*d instead of the nessecity of splitting the power >into two? On one hand I want to say " It sounds like something Misty might do. ", but at the same time, I don't think so. She seems to really like the idea of the Lady as a god/dess (she has Di Tregarde as a witch), so I don't think she'd really want to get rid of the female half of the deity. She couldn't really get rid of the male half either. In Karse they were shocked/horrified/whatever-other-adjectives-you-can-think-of with the idea of a woman as the "Son" of the Sun. I don't think that in such a male dominated religion they could worship a goddess. Please forgive this post for being a little convoluted. The above may have made no sense whatsoever. (I'm not sure it even does to me.) You see, it's early in the morning and I just woke up. I'm busy contemplating a rather large (and seemingly growing as I speak) pile of laundry that I've been neglecting. Gosh I wish that there was a Goddess of Domesticity and Laundry to intervene on my behalf. *Hint, hint.* Renee flare-+AT+-udel.edu |"I'm trying to find a polite way of saying 'drop University of Delaware |dead' and not having much luck." Pre-Veterinary student | -Vlad Taltos **High Priestess of |"Don't bother being polite. I died before the Procrastination** |Interregnum. Will you take the job?" Confused? Just Ask! | -Sethra Lavode http://udel.edu/~flare/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:02:07 -0500 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: bad guys Message-ID: <199611161602.LAA18303-+AT+-nemesis.idirect.com> At 10:34 PM 11/15/96 GMT, you wrote: >> Withen and Jervis were terrific *antagonists,* in that they stood in >> opposition to Our Hero, but were full, human, understandable characters. >> Beyond that -- no, can't think of any. True those two were the best antagonists I have seen her make even though they weren't all that bad. > > Misty does do good antagonists. They are actually some of my >favorite characters in her books. Leslac, Withen, Jervis and heck, even >Firesong for some of the time. They are all done well and move things >along with an intersting thought or two. No villans yet. Leslac you never really met. Plus how could you call him an antagonist he wasn't bad he just sung songs about Tarma and Kethry that were half true. > >> bargain. (I know Misty didn't write that one, but I assume she approved >> it; I can't imagine that she wouldn't have. And she made up the cheesy >> Evil Elves.) > > Hmmm.. I agree and disagree. The Evil elves part I agree on, I >am however, not sure that she hasn't ever made a good villan. I think >the only one who wasn't compeltely flat to me, was Falconsbane. He was >pretty twisted and did quite a few things ... because he could or becasue >they were.. "fun" for him. (May he br reincarnated as a radish.) Also, >for those who have met him, Melles was ... almost there, though I don't >think he schemed nearly enough as a character of his "repute" would >have. The only real evil character I have seen in her books is Ancar, Hulda and Falconsbane. Mind you I haven't read the books about the Gryphons time. But all of those were great characters because they had more in mind. The best was Falconsbane though because he seemed to have more flaws and was harder still to defeat because of his experience. > > I still like Gerald Terant from the Dark Sun Rising books. He is >very well done. So is Raistlin from Dragonlance.... Bad guys who are >weird, twisted and evil, but yet logical and present things in a way that >you have to look at it their way and.. find it isn't that hard to do. >Bad guys who are saveable... if you're strong enough to brave the murky >blackness of their souls to save them. (Sorry, rambling...) I agree there have always been some interesting Antagonists. In the DragonLAnce realm there was Raistlin, Dalamar, Steel and even Kitiara. Those were the greatest villains in the DragonLance series. In Darksun all of the sorcerror Kings and Queens plus Boris. > >Kat >Priestess of Karma > > Aistes ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:05:14 -0500 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Q? When is Florian going to Choose Karal/songs/Mishi's Message-ID: <199611161605.LAA18980-+AT+-nemesis.idirect.com> At 11:20 PM 11/15/96 GMT, you wrote: >Hades16-+AT+-aol.com wrote: >> Anywho, when is >> Florian going to choose Karal. We all know it is going to happen, just a >> matter of when. Well unless I am missing something. I haven't read the last Storm book yet. He probably won't because in one of the books they said a herald has to have at least two of the gifts as is evident with almost all who are chosen. All have limited MindSpeach at least then they have one other gift. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 16:03:12 UT From: "George Allison" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Firebird/Evil antagonists/Bards:Heralds/AMcCaffrey/Lammas/Altra Message-ID: Firemist said: >obmisty - has anyone spotted Firebird in Houston? wah! I wanna read it!!! I'm going bookstoring in Ft Worth this weekend, maybe I'll see it here. If its here then surely its in Houston. Jake wrote: >It seems that Misty has lost her penchant for making a good bad character. >I mean, off the top of my head, all of the antagonists I can think of who >were evil seemed to be shallow. I agree. The last evil character to me was Leareth, but part of that was Vanyel's premonitions throughout his life of that whole scene. The knowledge that that was a possibility and having to live with that was very scary. Leareth himself wasn't really mentioned all that much until the very end. The only thing about really bad and evil bad guys is that they always kill off all of your favorite characters. Shadra said: >Since the bulk of this post is music related here's a musical ObMisty: >How do you think Bards (or vice versa) would feel if part of their training >required them to pair up with Heralds during their circuit rides? The Bards are required to write certain amounts and types of songs to get to their proficiency levels. So, I think that they would always be wanting to run off to wherever a rumor and a likely song would be taking place. Or, they would want to hang out after the Herald is done in the town/village and finish up the song and perform it for the local populace. Lady Sophia said: >RE: Anne McCaffrey/Harper Hall books >One thing has been bugging me about "DragonSong" for at least ten years. >In the very beginning, when Menolly is doing the Teaching, her hands slip >out of the Teaching Ballad, and she plays some of her own work. Her >father hears this, and comes in and beats her (grr). what I want to know >is, how in the world did her father ever become so familiar with the >teaching ballads that he would even *know* when Menolly was playing her> >own stuff? Since all of the teaching is done thru the teaching ballads, everyone would know the words and rhythm just from it being drummed into their skulls as children. Lady Sophia also said: >RE: Lammas Night >I finally got a copy of this from the library last night. I'm enjoying >it, but I find it very hard to read more than two or three stories at a >time, because of the similiar story outline. I had the same problem with Lammas Night. I read one story a night and then went back to my other books until I finished it. So much repeating of the same basic storyline is hard to handle! Also, just a note. Being the catlover that I am, I was very happy to see Altra and Hursa around. Altra was so giving and caring; reminded me of my girls. Has anyone read any of Gayle Greeno's Ghatti's books? I sometimes think my girls would mindspeak me if only they could. But, they do pretty well with just "yowling"!! Hope everyone has a great weekend! Marsha "God made the cat so that man might have the pleasure of caressing the lion" --Fernand Mery ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:31:12 CST From: "JAIME HATHAWAY" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Yfandes Message-ID: <26356760AE-+AT+-future.judson.edu> I've been pondering Yfandes' seeming Foresight, and I'm curious as to what all of you think...was her Foresight (:I knew when I Chose you that our bond would come to this.:) specific or general? I mean, do you think she actually knew that x number of years down the road she and Vanyel would be fighting off Leareth (is that it? I'm so awful with names from books I haven't read in over a year or so) in the Forest of Sorrows? Or was is a more general Foresight, like she knew that eventually they would die fighting some kind of evil somewhere? Do you suppose that if it was specific that would explain why she hadn't Chose for so long? If she knew exactly how her life would turn out, she would've had to have waited for Vanyel to come along for her to Choose. Unless she didn't have the Forsight until after she Chose Vanyel (which, I guess, would seem to be supported by her remarks...which then brings me to wonder again--was she waiting specifically for Van to show up for her to Choose?). I'll stop before I get on a neverending cycle of questions...any thoughts? Jacquelle Oh, very clever, Worf. Eat any good books lately? --Q ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 15:00 EST From: infodyn-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy (Eleonora Scoseria) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Minibraid Re: Firesong/quote/deities/foresight Message-ID: Hades, aspiring God of Farfetched Theories and Misconstrued Ideas wrote: >Is it just me or did Firesong change slightly but deeply from the end of the >Mage Winds to the Storms Trilogy? Hth made an insightful (does the word exist??) reply, brilliantly putting words to the same ideas I had, and stated all the things I would have said, so I will not add to that. I particularly agree with the following: > I liked Firesong, because he responded to feeling rotten in an >imperfect way, and as I've said, I think far too many of Misty's >characters are perfect. Or -- this came up in a conversation with my >she'enedra over the weekend -- they have almost admirable imperfections. >Talia was too scared to ask for help, Vanyel isolated himself too much >because he didn't want to hurt or mislead anybody, Elspeth was stubborn, >but it always turned out for the best in the end. Firesong turns into a >first-class bitch, which is a real flaw. Only by understanding the >*whole* Firesong does it begin to make some sense that a guy who can >sometimes be such a jerk also has the respect and friendship of some >very fine people. I liked Firesong the better in the Storms series. In the Winds trilogy he was just too self-assured, perfect (in the sense of always right) and over confident. The fact that he discovers that he is less than infallible and deals with it, finally accepting help, and becoming a more decent human being is something that makes him IMO particularly likeable, even though as HTH says he can be at times such a jerk. Nevertheless, and I believe this is not a spoiler, I do not like the SB ending where Firesong is concerned. (Well, actually, I did not much like the SB ending in any repsect). I DO hope Owlflight will show as some more of him. I asked for help with this quote: >>We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams >>wandering by lone sea breakers and sitting by desolate streams >>world losers and world forsakers on whom the pale moon gleams, >>yet we are the movers and shakers of the world, forever, it seems. > And Dyana replied: >I don't know who wrote it, but it was quoted in the movie "Charlie and >the Chocolate Factory" problably not of any help, but I try. Thanks for trying. I don't think I ever saw the movie. I DO remember reading that quote in a book about some 5 years ago (was it that long ago?), and it somehow stuck with me, probably because wandering by lone sea breakers and sitting by desolate streams in some ways defines me. But thanks a lot, Dyana. If I ever find out its origins I'll let you know. Dyana also wrote: >Obmisty: If it was possible to use a neuter term in reffering to G*d, >(not it because of the inanimate connotations it has) do you think that >Misty would have one G*d instead of the nessecity of splitting the power >into two? I just do not think so. IMHO the fact that there are a female and a male divinity (even if we might in the end find out they are both aspects of the One), is essentially different from having a neuter deity. For instance, kyree can be the 3 things (neuter, male and female) and the 3 are eminently different. I think Misty is trying to have the same kind of personality traits in the G*ds of Velgarth as she has in its inhabitants. Even the different aspects of the StarEyed make sense, since they pertain to different stages of the human cycle. Jacquelle wrote: >I've been pondering Yfandes' seeming Foresight >I mean, do you think she actually knew that x number of years down the road she >and Vanyel would be fighting off Leareth in the Forest of Sorrows? Or was is a more >general Foresight, like she knew that eventually they would die fighting some kind of >evil somewhere? This brings us back to the same issue I have been pondering (and NOT only related to Misty's books, BTW) of whether Chosen pairings are preordained or fated. If she is referring to that exact confrontation and its outcome, then her Foresight would not work the way the Hawkbrothers say it works. For instance, Moondance always tells Van that he is seeing only a possible future and that things HE does can change it. So, if 'fandes always knew the outcome, it would mean the future is immutable (a notion that I have always found particularly frightening). In that context Heralds and such would just be ACTORS saying lines they somehow memorised unwittingly before incarnating, and what would be the point? Last but not least, in a post at least a week old, Cennydd was wondering about the remembrance ceremonies in my region. I'm not sure about our neighboring countries, but in Uruguay at least, the day for honoring the dead is Nov. 2, whereas All Souls is Nov. 1. What ceremonies are carried out are not related specifically to war victims or such, but Mass is said for the souls of all the departed. There is no ceremony that I know of to honor those who fell in battle. Just thoughts, WTTW, Ele Priestess of Karma ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 954 *********************************