MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 960 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Recruitment drive by be248-+AT+-scn.org (SCN User) 2) Re: Vanyel/Amber & Marigold by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" 3) Re: trust by "V. Brockmeier" 4) Re: Van. by "V. Brockmeier" 5) Re: Final Strike/villains/genderless by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" 6) Re: trust by DawnRain 7) My take on Final Strike by Jeff Pugh 8) Re: irate fluff/trust/recruitment drive by Rose 9) Brvaes Triumphs Over Lingering DNS Curse And Regains The List! by Korendil 10) Re:companion/Shadow Lover/AMW/Kof the OAM by Jefferson or Rain 11) Re: trust by "JAIME HATHAWAY" 12) Re: Final Strike by "Emily L Cartier" 13) Mailing list Archives by Ian Macdonald 14) Re: Vanyel/Amber & Marigold by Shannon 15) Re: My take on Final Strike by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" 16) RE: monogomy and fidelity by "Ned Adams" 17) Van by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" 18) Re: Recruitment drive (Fluff) by Seranna-+AT+-aol.com 19) Cornrow by GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu 20) Re: Vanyel/Amber & Marigold by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:47:34 -0800 (PST) From: be248-+AT+-scn.org (SCN User) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Recruitment drive Message-ID: <199611182147.NAA02952-+AT+-scn.org> ::a form steps from the shadows, clothed in White:: As a fellow Herald and an admirer of Mr. Ashkevron, as well as an admirer of Heather's words and speeches on behalf of the aforesaid Mr. Ashkevron, I hereby petition the kindly Heather (are you a Dame or a Knight?) for admittance to the Knights of the Order of Amber and Marigold (because I want to trounce people who disapprove of him... ;P) Zhai'helleva, Herald Briana -- Herald Briana Kestyl For some reason I never had any trouble Lady In Green figuring out what death was all wc814-+AT+-freenet.victoria about; but life - that's taken be248-+AT+-scn.org me until now. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:01:53 -0800 From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel/Amber & Marigold Message-ID: <199611182201.OAA25672-+AT+-latimes.com> At 09:20 PM 11/18/96 GMT, Shannon wrote: >I've been following this debate about Vanyel's death with interest, and >here's my take on the situation. Van *had* to die. When Stefen goes to >the Forest to kill himself, he encounters Van's spirit, who tells him to >try to change the perception of the people that Herald Mages were better >than Heralds. If Van hadn't died, that couldn't have been accomplished >because there he'd be, the hero who took out the army of Leareth all on >his own, and that perception would have just gotten stronger. That >whole theme was pretty constant throughout the book, everyone thinking >Heralds were less than Herald Mages. I hope that made sense. :) It did. But actually, Van did not HAVE to die. He died because Misty's outline said "Vanyel commits suicide." In actuality, Valdemar only needed to think he was dead. He could have accomplished the same thing by hanging out in a cabin in the Forest of Sorrows with Stef coming to visit him whenever he could get away from Haven that he accomplished by getting his spirit bound to the Forest. At least that way Stef would get SOME payoff for all the loneliness and hard work. Stef reports Van's death in Haven, there's not a single mage left who can gainsay him. Voila! Mission accomplished, AND the hero gets to live (sort of) happily ever after. > Danya ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:08:57 -0600 (CST) From: "V. Brockmeier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: trust Message-ID: Our Divine Lady Becky of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereal wrote: > To me, that idea would be *very* scary. It makes me wonder how > many of the newly chosen Heralds are scared by the thought of it. I've considered this myself, being rather short on faith in humankind. Finally decided either a.) there is some magic to the Bond that acts as sort of a mental salve, or b.) the forging of the Bond is such a good feeling that it washes away all doubts. I kind of lean to the latter, because a lot of the Chosen are the types who don't take well to trust and finally feeling it could just shock them into being accustomed to it. Here's a question: is it possible for a Chosen, especially a newly Chosen, to refuse a Bond? Maybe that's why they all seem to accept it; those who don't at first just don't keep it. The Companion could clear the would-have-been-Herald's mind of memories of the encounter, and just never mention it to any humans. And if they never asked about it, the Companions wouldn't have to tell them. Hmmm! --vix ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:59:18 -0600 (CST) From: "V. Brockmeier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van. Message-ID: (blast it, forgot who put this out originally--sorry!) > >to lack the in-depth training that Savil or the Tayledras had - he seemed > >to have the basics down pat, but not the in-depth theoretical knowledge > >that they had - he winged it based on hypotheses and intuition without > >necessarily having the background to let him think of things like losing > >his ground so that his shields could spin with the winds. This is really kind of a theme I've noticed with a lot (though not all) of Misty's characters--very clearly with Talia, to a lesser extent with Elspeth, venturing out into. . . would you call it diplomacy? without much real experience, and whatshisname in Jinx High who didn't even know much about the occult at all or that his parents were involved in that whole scene. It's the babe-in-the-woods idea that makes the reader think, hey, I could do that well or better, if only I had the Gift. Boy, that sounds kind of harsh; not so intended. I don't think all authors are capitalistic whores, just that they tend to write characters who people can relate to. --vix "Oh, the movie star, she crashed her car, but everyone said she was beautiful, even without her head--everyone said she was dangerous." --Cracker, "Movie Star" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:26:16 -0800 From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Final Strike/villains/genderless Message-ID: <199611182226.OAA26217-+AT+-latimes.com> At 09:51 PM 11/18/96 GMT, Hth. wrote: > The very nature of Final Strike, as I understand it from LHM and >CotN, is that it takes very little power to activate. It's what you do >when you've tried everything else, *and exhausted yourself,* and you >don't want to die by yourself. So then, it only makes sense that the >spell is one a dying mage can trigger -- i.e. not that hard. So just >because he had the power remaining to call down a Final Strike does not >necessarily mean that he had the power to collapse a mountain. Actually, if I recall the scene correctly, Yfandes had to link with him and feed him the power required to activate the spell. You don't want it to be something easy to do, or you'd run the risk of your low-level mage students doing it by accident. I'm pretty sure it's an Adept-level spell in Misty's world, just as it is in most gaming systems. In fact, I seem to remember that Van had to reach for distant nodes to have the power to pull it off . . . or something like that. > I don't think it was impossible to stop Leareth. I do think it was >probably outside of Vanyel's capabilities at that moment -- and he >really didn't have any time to recuperate, and he had no other mages to >call on. While I sympathize with the feeling that Stef got royally >$%!#&! in that incarnation, I don't think Vanyel had as many options as >you think he should have had. There's a difference between having the >perfect strategy and having the resources to pull it off in the time >you're given. But I think he _did_ have the resources when he first stepped into view at the Pass. He was throwing magic around _before_ the rape, but I don't recall him doing anything like that _after_ he started recuperating with the kyree. Meanwhile, Leareth's been carving his way through solid rock. If anything, Leareth is the one who's "battery power" is low, while Van has had time to recharge (I got the impression that he stayed with the kyree a lot longer than just a couple of days.). > As for the foresight issue, I'm going to adopt Cen's theory here. >There are some futures so pivotal that they cannot be avoided. Ah, and there we'll have to agree to disagree because that is a worldview I cannot accept. I'll grant you that someone may not be able to see _how_ to avoid something, but the man who can't see alternatives to any given situation has stopped thinking. Now, with the earlier Van, that seemed to be the case: He was so terrified of Leareth he couldn't think. But Van is a very different person when he meets Leareth, and he's learned that there a lot more things to be afraid of in the world than dying. I think he had the power and the brains and the experience/willingness/motivation to use them if Misty hadn't insisted on adhering to her outline. Danya ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:34:24 -0700 From: DawnRain To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: trust Message-ID: <3290E470.46C8-+AT+-geocities.com> V. Brockmeier wrote: > > Postage paid by: [Image] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Our Divine Lady Becky of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereal wrote: > > > To me, that idea would be *very* scary. It makes me wonder how > > many of the newly chosen Heralds are scared by the thought of it. > > I've considered this myself, being rather short on faith in humankind. > Finally decided either a.) there is some magic to the Bond that acts as > sort of a mental salve, or b.) the forging of the Bond is such a good > feeling that it washes away all doubts. I kind of lean to the latter, > because a lot of the Chosen are the types who don't take well to trust > and finally feeling it could just shock them into being accustomed to it. > > Here's a question: is it possible for a Chosen, especially a newly > Chosen, to refuse a Bond? Maybe that's why they all seem to accept it; > those who don't at first just don't keep it. The Companion could clear > the would-have-been-Herald's mind of memories of the encounter, and just > never mention it to any humans. And if they never asked about it, the > Companions wouldn't have to tell them. > > Hmmm! > > --vix Yes, it's possible. Arrows of the Queen paperback pg 73: Selenay: "No one can force you to this. If you honestly don't feel equal to the task of being Queen's Own to a woman old enough to have mothered you and to a spoiled little monster, we'll find someplace else here where you can be happy. I'll admit to you that this is a job *I* wouldn't want under any circumstances. You can say no and we'll send Rolan out again. But--I think his judgment was right when he Chose you. Will you be a Herald, Talia, and Queen's Own?" Might be a special circumstance owing to the importance of the MO position and the difficulty of the particular job at the time... but I get the feeling it's something anyone can refuse, just the people Chosen usually would not refuse it. Yesnomaybe? Star ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:09:17 -0800 From: Jeff Pugh To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: My take on Final Strike Message-ID: <329116CD.6BB-+AT+-inter-linc.com> Hey everbody~ Well, this is my take on the Final Strike debate. The one thing I noticed is that someone said that Leareth should've been weakened slightly because of having made the pass. But does it say that he neccesarily had _just_ carved it? And besides, seeing as he's got several underlings on the other side of the mountains feeding him power, I don't think that it would make a noticeable amount of weakness. And I think that,for Van, it was a no-win situation. He *couldn't* have beat Leareth, even if he'd beenat full strength and uninjured. I mean, Leareth was alredy an Adept, had several other mages feeding him power, as well as having had who-knows-how-many lifetimes of experience. He was able to stop him, true, but there's just no way that he could have won. If you ask me. Okay, that's it. You can go home now. *grYn* -- ~AmpliFireCat~ (or just Ampli) -Acolyte of Music And Song "Well, to fit in on the Seattle scene, you gotta do something they ain't never seen, so we was sitting around one day and decided to be the only band that wouldn't play a note. Under any circumstances. Silence- music's original alternative." "Talkin' Seattle Grunge Rock Blues" -Tod Snyder ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:13:11 -0500 From: Rose To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: irate fluff/trust/recruitment drive Message-ID: <3290ED87.7ABB-+AT+-ctol.net> Renee wrote: > I just sincerely hope that they're happy with each other and >may they get "exactly what they deserve". recalls the connotations to this Shin'a'in proverb> Please, Renee, please never wish that on someone. I have enough under age friends with babies. I've seen what these people go through, and yes, one might say that they get what they *deserve*. But who are we to judge someone else? I know I'm not perfect, and I spend my time and myself with who I wish and I've lost quite a few so called friends because of that, because they thought that since I was no longer *pure and innocent* I was no longer good enough for them to associate with. I never will regret my decision though, and if I do 'get what I deserve' then I will have to deal with it. Also, A wish like 'may you get what you deserve' has a tendency to recoil back on the *well* wisher. ------- Re:trust Yes, for me it is possible to trust two people completely, myself and my ashke. Why Him? Because I know that there is nothing that I can do or say that would make him stop loving me. I'm going to tie this into the monogomous lifebond discusion of days gone by so hold on for the time warp...... Ok. This is the man who is so possessive that he has threatened to kill people for speaking with me (yes, he has been diagnosed homicidal) He is also not a person who I have any reason to be scared of. I need him in my life. And I know how to deal with keeping him sane out out from behind bars. There is some kind of bond between us, since many times, I've felt feelings from him and he has told me the same. This is also the man who gave me his permission to share my life with others when it is impossible for us to be together for long periods of time. Sex and love don't have all that much to do with each other. That is one of the best examples of how I can trust someone else completely. If he can love me enough to let me be with others, then how can I not trust him to accept everything that has happened in my life? I think this might have a little to do with how the Chosen can accept their Companions invasion of their thoughts. They know their Companions will never betray them and they probably know that if you're going to be fighting besides someone, that you necessarily must know their each and every weakness *and* each and every strength. There are also examples of Chosen being able to shut out their Companions. Remember how strange it was when Talia could sense with Roland and Roland with her through her shields? And remember how Elspeth would block out Gwena? The Companions do know their Chosen intimately, but I don't think that it is a constant intimacy. Speaking of this, I always thought that Talia's bond with Roland was do to possible foresight on his account of what the future would bring (you know with Ancar and all). -------- Re:Recriutment Drive I humbly submit my petition to become a Knighted Champion of Vanyel (as if I could be humble). My qualifications? I am quite direct in my opinions when I choose and can support myself against all with the flick of my shortsword across the keyboard. I (as probably most) have read LHM at least 15 times completely through and have come to an understanding of the what drives my dear Vanyel. He is above all, a man who is devoted to living up to *his* recolections of his lost love. The more he sacrifices himself, the more he avenges Tylendels meaningless death. I do hope my petition is accepted, the sword is ever at the ready. Dyana ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 18:05:36 -0500 From: Korendil To: "Misty List" Subject: Brvaes Triumphs Over Lingering DNS Curse And Regains The List! Message-ID: <9611182311.AA09355-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> whew. I was very lucky. First email I got after the wondrous Auntie Mel broke the Cure of the DNS Server was Heather's call to arms;> >*So,* all those of you who have been so supportive of My Cause in the >past, *please* support the Order of Amber and Marigold, or I'm going to >look pretty silly, being the only one out here spouting all this mushy >stuff. To our banner! I will follow thee, Heather! Let me be a Knight of Amber and Marigold to protect Vanyel's honor from the slanderers and blasphemers here on the list (and thou knowest who thou art) who would tarnish it!!!!!<--- And _I_ knew what the "Amber and Marigold" bit meant BEFORE I read your definition! >They say something like, "Shavri was the last to relent as >her bond to her Companion was the weakest." Or something to that effect. I think that's the exception; Talia and Rolan are the norm. Remember: the Shavri/Taver bond was just to help Rand and until Jisa could be chosen... >I've been following this debate about Vanyel's death with interest, and >here's my take on the situation. Van *had* to die. I think you're right from one perspective. Van had to die to forward on the PLOT. I dunno if he had to die because it was what should have happened...in fact, it shouldn't of. It wasn't FAIR! Van and Stef should have been given time to know each other--hell, Lendel shouldn't of died. Savil should have realized Lendel was too close to Staven. It should never have escalated to Sovven Night. And Leareth should have died. But then we wouldn't have had a story. :( > Vanyel brought me to the world of Velgarth, with much love >and many tears, and I wouldn't be the same without him. As he did for many of us... >I have a feeling that we see the Shadowlover referred to as female when >Jaysen dies; anyone confirm this? Well, SL appears as whatever sex you get your kicks out of, right? BTW, mini-poll: Who thinks SL was an aspect of the Star-Eyed, and who an avatar? This is from Mpromise where it says he has the starlight eyes..oh..and anyone who does a one-liner..well...I'll talk to Ken;> yeah. that's it;> > And maybe the Vanyel-who-could-level-Haven could have done it -- >though I always thought that quote was as much Vanyel's legend talking >as it was an accurate summation of his powers. hmm..just remember: untrained and in a trance, Van managed to have the whole Palace shaking...and Haven of Van's day was smaller than Haven of El's day... >I am unsure as to >whether or not the mage at the end of MPawn is related to Ma'ar, he may >have just been your run-of-the-mill-power-hungry-blood-path mage. Our consensus over the summer was the latter. Krebain was the run-of-the-mill-power-hungry-blood-path mage. File Closed. > It is quite plain that >after Van died the Falconsbane-to-be didn't come back and invade Valdemar >(what he was after was no longer there), and he wasn't invading Valdemar >before Van became a Herald-Mage. Hmm..imsho, that's sorta twisted logic...like saying "it only rains when dark clouds are out, so OBVIOUSLY sunlight stops rain before it gets to earth. that's a reallllly bad anaology, but I gotta go i n a sec. I think that he didn't start attacking Valdemar again because A: he had to wait for a body, B: he was prolly in a different location when he did, and C: he seems to lost memories with each incarnation. > That's why >when Valdemar no longer has any practicing mages he leaves it alone and goes >after people who DO have practicing mages. No...it has no more practicing mages because he killed them all off, and he then goes off for the above reasons...twisted logic, as I said. imnsho. > If >anything, Leareth is the one who's "battery power" is low, while Van has had >time to recharge (I got the impression that he stayed with the kyree a lot >longer than just a couple of days.). Ah..but Leareth was stealing all his energy from his mages, like the evil dude in MPromise. Van was drwaing from himself and nodes. Leareth had some car batteries. Van was only given some size D Energizers. They keep going and going--until they die. Oh...for the song thingy...Rush's new song that goes ~Half the world gives/ Half the world takes~ would be PERFECT for Heralds in general. -+AT+-LIDNEROK___________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________KORENDIL-+AT+- I|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High|I C|Court, Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan, |C U|God of Night and All Things Nocturnal, Champion of the Ladies |U B|of the Pink Wand, Acting Master of Dreams, and Ailurophile. |B E|______________________________________________________________|E D|God did not create the world in 7 days; he screwed around for |D .|6 days and then pulled an all-nighter. |. N|--------------------------------------------------------------|N E|When I was in school,I cheated on my metaphysics exam:I looked|E T|into the soul of the boy sitting next to me. --Woody Allen |T -+AT+-__________________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________________-+AT+- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:40:18 -0800 From: Jefferson or Rain To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re:companion/Shadow Lover/AMW/Kof the OAM Message-ID: <32902F02.6661-+AT+-earthlink.net> singer-+AT+-iglobal.net wrote: > Not that I couln't learn....and if I were ever presented with such a magnificent > opportunity (Companion or human) I would accept the offer with all my > being, and work on the rest. There are distinct advantages to such a > partnership. To always have a friend, a strong shoulder to lean on. To > always know that there is at least one creature that loves you You know - being newly married (Sept. 21st) I've got to say, it *is* a wonderful thing, but it is as challenging as it is wonderful. A partner (or Companion) is a mirror to your soul, and when you see all of yourself it can be fairly unpleasant sometimes. Truly, a real partner is somebody who will not allow you to give anything less than 100%. A real partner inspires you to have integrity and honor, to strive to improve, to be true to yourself and to the promises you have made. Kindof like a Companion. And trust me, that is very hard work! Heather said: >>I realize that the Shadow-Lover manifests as male or female, but I don't think either state of being is a fixed attribute for the Shadow-Lover. I think in essence it is a genderless spirit that shows itself in whatever form you'd like to see.<<< I think I agree with Heather. If you put the emphasis on the Lover-aspect it makes perfect sense. If Death is your lover, then obviously it would appear to you in the form most agreeable to your orientation. More Heather regarding AMW: >>> But now there's a tenor to it that just makes me -- I don't know. Shaky. Sick. There are a whole bunch of commercials where the host explains that the show is back on the air because decent, normal people are tired of these animals running free, and we're going to lock them up where they belong.<<< I thought your post was very eloquent and thought provoking. I think that in this society, there is so much out of control crime and violence, that people are desparate for the *illusion* of control over the situation. So we put shows like this out on the air, and we are going to get the Big Bad Evil Criminals, and it makes everybody feel better. Only, sadly, we still have no handle on the situation. People are starting to get really ugly in response to the ugliness around them. They cannot accept the fact that the criminals are as human as their victims. I work in a school for emotionally disturbed children, and you would be horrified by the things these kids do and say. They are only 5 or 6 and they are hardened sociopaths. Perhaps with therapy they will lead *normal* lives, but the vast majority of criminals never had that opportunity. And these kids started out normal, happy, loving little guys. They just were denied the proper care, bonding and nurturing. They learned to abuse at the hands of abusive caregivers and parents. It makes us all responsible for the situation doesn't it - I mean, children are everyone's responsibility (IMO) and here they all are, slipping thru the cracks and ending up as Public Enemy #1. Enough - don't want to take up too much space with off topic stuff, but it's a very disturbing subject. Viv said: >>>Here's a question: is it possible for a Chosen, especially a newly Chosen, to refuse a Bond? Maybe that's why they all seem to accept it; those who don't at first just don't keep it. <<< Talia was given the choice to accept her Heraldship, or refuse it - Selenay asked her in the Palace. IIRC, Selenay said that all Chosen were given a choice, and then again in Orientation, Teren said that the new Chosen had one last chance to back out with no recriminations. Perhaps that is why the Herald/Companion bond is so tenuous at first. Heather, I'd really like to be a Knight of the Order of Amber and Marigold. Vanyel is one of my favorite characters. If I'd been his mother/sister/family member, I'd have kicked Withen around the stables and off the "walk" for the way he treated Van. I think that Vanyel was a most Noble and Fine person, and would be honored to belong to any group that honors him. I don't think my pending Priestly duties would preclude my joining, so please consider my petition. WTTW, Rainwood, Soon-To-Be High Priestess of Domesticity and Laundry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:36:51 CST From: "JAIME HATHAWAY" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: trust Message-ID: <91E3923AE-+AT+-future.judson.edu> I believe it is possible...Teren mentions something in orientation class about allowing anyone to back out now, and no one would think the less of them...if they chose that, then they'd obviously have to give up thier bond with their companion. I'd guess the experience would be something like what lendel went through when he was repudiated, only not half as traumatic, as the newly chosen wouldn't ahve had the time to build such an intense bond with their Companions as Lendel had. However, no one has refused Companion's Choice, because a Companion wouldn't Choose someone who they know would refuse it. And they would know, because they can see into a person's soul..."a feeling of being measured", I believe is the quote Teren says to the newly Chosen. When no one in the class refuses, Teren comments, "I see the Companions have Chosen wisely again." As if they could do otherwise! Jacquelle Ex astris, scientia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:38:00 -0500 From: "Emily L Cartier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Final Strike Message-ID: <9611182340.AA17014-+AT+-udecc.engr.udayton.edu> Danya said: >I'm pretty sure it's an Adept-level spell in Misty's world, just as >it is in most gaming systems. I seem to recall someone who was not an Adept (Kethry?) saying that if all else failed, they would do a final strike on the mage they were fighting. The basic purpose of Final Strike is that you die, but you take your last enemy with you. I also remember someone saying Not even an Adept can withstand a Final Strike, but I can't remember who. Usual drill, books in PA, me in OH. Emily the invisible ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:53:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Ian Macdonald To: Herald mailing list Subject: Mailing list Archives Message-ID: There is also a weeks worth of the mailing list kepted on http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ism/lackey/mailinglist It means I don;t have to have a clogged up mail box :). Also could somone mail me the names and if its in the lastest book release dates for the OWL books Thanks Ian, who hasn't got round to buying a copy of strom breaking yet :( -- < all of a sudden a whisper of sound occurs then the sound of a body hitting a keyboard. "Good thing we had darts", one of the white coated men said to the other as they dragged ian's body from the terminal.> < ism-+AT+-tardis.ed.ac.uk > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:08:03 -0800 From: Shannon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel/Amber & Marigold Message-ID: <329132A3.972-+AT+-ix.netcom.com> Linda Malcor, Ph.D wrote: > > > It did. But actually, Van did not HAVE to die. He died because Misty's > outline said "Vanyel commits suicide." In actuality, Valdemar only needed > to think he was dead. He could have accomplished the same thing by hanging > out in a cabin in the Forest of Sorrows with Stef coming to visit him > whenever he could get away from Haven that he accomplished by getting his > spirit bound to the Forest. At least that way Stef would get SOME payoff > for all the loneliness and hard work. Stef reports Van's death in Haven, > there's not a single mage left who can gainsay him. Voila! Mission > accomplished, AND the hero gets to live (sort of) happily ever after. > > > Danya Ok, but there are two problems with that. Van is a Herald, bound into the Web, yes? The Heralds would know he wasn't dead, because of the Web, and if he just hid out all those years, then he would be unable to perform his duties as a Herald. Van doesn't seem like the type who would abandon his duties, and I don't think Yfandes would've let him, anyway! As unhappy as I was to see him die, I think this was really the best way for the situation to unfold. Shannon (loving that she can *finally* have discussions like this with someone...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:14:32 -0800 From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: My take on Final Strike Message-ID: <199611190014.QAA28910-+AT+-latimes.com> At 11:35 PM 11/18/96 GMT, Jeff Pugh wrote: >But does it say that he [Leareth] neccesarily had _just_ carved it [the Pass]? Thought it said that in there somewhere, but I could be wrong. >And besides, >seeing as he's got several underlings on the other side of the mountains feeding him >power, I don't think that it would make a noticeable amount of weakness. Then the underlings should be drained and unable to battle with Van. >And I think >that,for Van, it was a no-win situation. He *couldn't* have beat Leareth, even if he'd >beenat full strength and uninjured. I mean, Leareth was alredy an Adept, had several >other mages feeding him power, as well as having had who-knows-how-many lifetimes of >experience. He was able to stop him, true, but there's just no way that he could have >won. If you ask me. Oh, and I think you are underestimating everyone's favorite Herald-Mage. Vanyel wasn't just any Adept. He was a Guardian Adept to start with. Then he was something no one else had ever seen before on top of that: all of his channels were blasted _wide_ open to their fullest extent. I doubt Ma'ar/Falconsbane was in a similar situation inside Leareth's body. Van had Yfandes to feed him power, remember? And experience at doing what? Leareth in any incarnation is hardly the type to go fight demons on a border for several years at a stretch. Van is the one who is loaded with the experience when it comes to this sort of fighting. Danya ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 19:59:21 UT From: "Ned Adams" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Cc: sbaldrick-+AT+-msn.com Subject: RE: monogomy and fidelity Message-ID: ---------- singer-+AT+-iglobal.net >I also remember something from Arrow's Fall about Talia suffering because >of Rolan's, er, relationship with Ahrodie, because she "positively ached >for Ahrodies Chosen." Definite sexual tension there. It wasn't stated in >so many words in that case, but it just *felt* that Dirk and no one else >was on her mind when *that* subject came up. >And I'm not saying that all lifebonded relationships can be evaluated on >the monogomy issue based on these examples; I am only trying to explain why >I wrote that about "not wanting..." and what I was thinking when I did. Interesting example you used: isn't it said in AFall that Rolan thought that Talia and Dirk became lifebonded when they first met each other way back when Talia was coming into Haven for the first time? Admittedly, they didn't realize it at the time, but the bond was there. Yet Talia and Kris did have a relatively successful friendly sexual relationship, even though both realized that they were not meant to be soley for each other. Therefor, it seems to me that the lifebond itself doesn't preclude external intimacies, just that they could not occur if either partner would be hurt by it i.e. the situation is possible but rare. Well, as long as I've jumped out of the woodwork had better introduce myself. Hello, my name is Ned and I'm a Lackyhollic. Hi Ned! I guess that I don't completely qualify as a newbie, since I was on about a year ago. My access went away when I moved to follow a job, and it took me this long to get a computer and return. I make no claims to dietyhood (doesn't dealing with your worshipers get to be a headache at times? Personally, I would be afraid that someone would think that he is worshiping me and start telling other people what to do, and claim that I revealed myself to him in a vision. I refuse to be responsible for the result of two bottles of tequila and some bad enchiladas.) ; but I do feel that there is an occasional bit of wolfishness that tries to get out. Other bits and pieces: I've been reading Misty since 1992, and I think that I am personally responsible for getting about a dozen people addicted to Mercedes Lackey (I've also given away 4 sets of HoV and 3 of tLHM). I'm an ex-theatre type (backstage only) but I gave that up to be a semi-respectable engineer out here near Chicago. Let's see: for hobbies, I usually read. Then when I'm done with that, I read some more. Then I generally fill in the gaps by getting in a bit of neglected reading. Other than Misty, I generally go for Terry Pratchett (does anyone have acccess to Hogfather yet? I already grabbed Feet of Clay and read it twice in the first week) That's all I can think of for now, so: Zhai'helleva, Ned BTW: I'm still getting used to this mail program, so I apologize if this message is screwed up (formatting wise: I take full blame for content) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:39:35 -0800 From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Van Message-ID: <199611190039.QAA29478-+AT+-latimes.com> At 11:42 PM 11/18/96 GMT, Korendil wrote: Danya wrote: >> It is quite plain that >>after Van died the Falconsbane-to-be didn't come back and invade Valdemar >>(what he was after was no longer there), and he wasn't invading Valdemar >>before Van became a Herald-Mage. > >Hmm..imsho, that's sorta twisted logic...like saying "it only rains when >dark clouds are out, so OBVIOUSLY sunlight stops rain before it gets to >earth. that's a reallllly bad anaology, but I gotta go i n a sec. I think >that he didn't start attacking Valdemar again because A: he had to wait >for a body, B: he was prolly in a different location when he did, and C: >he seems to lost memories with each incarnation. Huh? I don't understand what you are seeing as twisted. Fact: Falconsbane did not got after Valdemar; he went after Taleydras mages. Fact: The Taleydras were far better equipped to defend themselves against a mage in Falconsbane's day than Valdemar was. Conclusion: Valdemar did not have what Falconsbane was after. I don't remember any evidence that he lost his memories of his previous life. If he did, then that sort of knocks out the argument someone else made that Leareth had more experience than Vanyel because of the previous lives. >> That's why >>when Valdemar no longer has any practicing mages he leaves it alone and goes >>after people who DO have practicing mages. > >No...it has no more practicing mages because he killed them all off, and >he then goes off for the above reasons...twisted logic, as I said. imnsho. > Huh? I'm sorry, but it's your logic I'm not following. I never said Leareth didn't kill off the mages of Valdemar. If the body was the problem, Valdemar _still_ didn't have any mages when he got one, so he _could_ have taken it when his new body got old enough. Location is no insurmountable problem when you live on a world with Gates. And I simply can't think of textevd that Ma'ar lost all his memories of each life every time he jumped to a new body. How could he remember how to jump between bodies if that were true? >> If >>anything, Leareth is the one who's "battery power" is low, while Van has had >>time to recharge (I got the impression that he stayed with the kyree a lot >>longer than just a couple of days.). > >Ah..but Leareth was stealing all his energy from his mages, like the evil >dude in MPromise. Van was drwaing from himself and nodes. Leareth had >some car batteries. Van was only given some size D Energizers. They keep >going and going--until they die. A low car battery won't start the car. And Van did have Yfandes. Danya ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:56:22 -0500 From: Seranna-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Recruitment drive (Fluff) Message-ID: <961118195621_1083268731-+AT+-emout03.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-11-18 06:52:04 EST, HTH wrote: << I would like formally invite Vanyel's supporters into an undertaking of great righteousness and worth -- namely, the Order of Amber and Marigold. >> Exalted Grand Dame of the Order of Amber and Marigold, Please accept my request to join your order. I would gladly leave my fireproof sanctuary of Lurkdom for this worthy cause. I pledge to fall no more than a day (or two) behind in reading the list, and will rally to the flag when called! We do have a flag, don't we? Or maybe a logo? Anyway, ME TOO!! Seranna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:57:18 -0600 (CST) From: GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu To: MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK Subject: Cornrow Message-ID: <961118185718.22b98630-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu> >> I can't remember if I wondered about MPD in *Valdemar* or in *Lackey* in >> general... When the Bough Breaks had an MPD major character(s), but I >> haven't seen it in Valdemar. >> > Depends on whether or not you count Falconsbane...he was definitly >more than one person. Whether or not in the sense of MPD...well, that's >debatable. Personnally, I think Falconsbane had Multiple Body Disorder! *giggle* Lorraine (aspiring Goddess of Domesticity and Laundry), I wish you a very merry Birthday and a Happy Next Year ! And I have several Elven volunteers who will do your laundry on this your biringday so that you need not wear your birthday suit only. Jake said: >>It's happened. I'm suffering BURNOUT! *thud* My book is at a stonewall, myroleplaying is dead, my writing is uninspired.. I can't even come up with humor anymore. How do you other writers combat this? Help..<< Dax steps in her role of Evangelist of Low Humor: Ideas are stumbling around in the dark, so Dax shines a flashlight on the problem...wait, the light is dimming, she shakes the flashlight - it brightens but a moment and then is dimmer than before, she takes the batteries out and swithches them, hoping it will infuse new life. Again it glows but dimly and then...fades to black. She shrugs, removes the batteries and thinks of tossing them - but no - she spies a recharger plugged into the wall and snaps the drained batteries in, and waits for them to recharge... Yes, these are two male bovines (giggle). Does everyone feel the 2x4? Good. Now, the recharger? TV, Movies, videos, music, books, just good conversation, above all don't think! just enjoy. And if your batteries are that low it may take a while. but, "imput, Stephanie, imput" as Johny 5 says is the best way to wet the creative sponge when you've wrung it dry. There, everyone should be thouroughly soaked with Allegory whine. Dax shakes the role off her foot and goes onto other things. Deniz: >Speaking of which, did anyone actually make it to the end of our last post >wherein Woodlark asked if anyone who wasn't Canadian recognized > from what poem the quoted lines came from? (Ooh, dangling participle? Uh, nope, I give up. Sounds vampiric to me though. For whoever it was that asked: BOM=Beginning of Message EOM= End of Message Now the answer you've all been waiting for: Vanyel's Miracle Cream: Cinnamin, and marigold in a salve ! It was used on his fingers, Stef's hands, Medren's shoulder, and Vanyel said he used it many times in the field. All those who got it right win a Virtual Cinnamin tree and a potted marigold from which to make their own salve. Well, that about wraps it up for today. Dax the Eternal, Lady of the Unicorns Provisional Goddess of Elves and pending Goddess of something equine Evangelist of Low Humor > from what poem the quoted lines came from? (Ooh, dangling participle? Uh, nope, I give up. Sounds vampiric to me though. For whoever it was that asked: BOM=Beginning of Message EOM= End of Message Now the answer you've all been waiting for: Vanyel's Miracle Cream: Cinnamin, and marigold in a salve ! It was used on his fingers, Stef's hands, Medren's shoulder, and Vanyel said he used it many times in the field. All those who got it right win a Virtual Cinnamin tree and a potted marigold from which to make their own salve. Well, that about wraps it up for today. Dax the Eternal, Lady of the Unicorns Provisional Goddess of Elves and pending Goddess of something equine Evangelist of Low Humor ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:21:59 -0800 From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel/Amber & Marigold Message-ID: <199611190121.RAA00623-+AT+-latimes.com> >Ok, but there are two problems with that. Van is a Herald, bound >into the Web, yes? The Heralds would know he wasn't dead, because of >the Web, and if he just hid out all those years, then he would be >unable to perform his duties as a Herald. Van doesn't seem like the type >who would abandon his duties, and I don't think Yfandes would've >let him, anyway! As unhappy as I was to see him die, I think this >was really the best way for the situation to unfold. Couple of thoughts on that. Yfandes could have been convinced that taking Van out of the loop was in the best interest of Valdemar and by defending Sorrows he would be performing his duty as Herald--only he'd be alive while doing it instead of dead. And I think the Companions could have done _something_ to make the Heralds think Van was dead. Most of them can only feel the Web when a Herald dies. And if the Companions couldn't do something to fake the death Stef's a Bard. Couldn't he have come up with some explanation that the Heralds would have bought? Van went directly to the Havens and did not pass Go and did not collect his $200? Or some nonsense like that? Or that they didn't feel him die because, with his last breath, he sent his life force into the Web? Stef was a superb Bard. I think he could have come up with something that would have flown. Danya ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 960 *********************************