MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 962 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Storm Breaking & singing by "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" 2) Official Delurk/Vanyel Final Strike by "Cara S. Smith" 3) Re: Recruitment drive by ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com 4) Re: Genderless by Korendil 5) Re: Recruitment drive by Korendil 6) Nuisance monsters/Van vs Leareth, film at eleven!/OoAM by Melanie Harris 7) Vrondi by Melanie Harris 8) Re: Official Delurk/Vanyel Final Strike by Jeff Pugh 9) Van / Final Strike. by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 10) Re: Recruitment drive (Fluff) by anderbdm-+AT+-juno.com (Dawn L. Anderson) 11) Reply to: Brvaes Glares At ISP For Losing DNS For 38 Hours by Rozanna McNeer 12) Final Strike and Van stuff//Monogamy/Hertasi and by dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA 13) Re: Recruitment drive by Paradox 14) Ladies of the Pink Wand- Info for the Confused & Curious by LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com 15) Our Beloved Vanyel/Companions and Trust by singer-+AT+-iglobal.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:29:25 +1030 From: "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Storm Breaking & singing Message-ID: <9611190259.AA120818-+AT+-bilbo.cc.flinders.edu.au> Heyla, I have just finished Storm Breaking and although I agree with much of the comments I also believe that it is appropriate for almost everything to occur in the last few pages - sort of like the calm before the storm and then 10 minutes of unmitigating fury. Mind you we don't get cyclones etc in dear old Adelaide so I am only going on what I hear and read and see about cyclones, typhoons etc. Congrats to Woodlark for the solo. I am envious but in a nice way. I have just rejoined our South Australian Gay and Lesbian Choir due to the acquisition of wheels at last. We and a few other choirs are joining in a Acapella Festival this weekend and hearing 120 people singing in 5 part harmony is sooo uplifting. We are singing the national anthem of South Africa and a fabulous African song entitled Freedom - quite fitting considering what is happening in Zaire & Rwanda. We will probably do a benefit concert for them as well. OK back to lurkerdom & administrivia and marking, marking, marking. Wind to thy wings, list sibs Ailsa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 22:26:37 -0500 From: "Cara S. Smith" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Official Delurk/Vanyel Final Strike Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961119032637.006a9f60-+AT+-ns.gamewood.net> Ok.. It's official.. I'm delurking.. two days early.. but I'm doing it. Cara Smith, occasionally called Nitebird, Relina, Riana, M'ril, and various and sundry other names not appropriate for this list. Been reading Mercedes Lackey for.. 10 years? something like that. Started on Oathbound. Anyway, glad to be back. I was here about six months ago, but little things like a sick gran and a sick comp have kept me from rejoining until last week. Re: Vanyel Final Strike.. On page 325, of Magic's Price, "I wonder if I can hold against him. Or even-take him? "Hope rose in him, and he probed a little around Leareith's shields. "And hid a shock of dismay. He's better than I am. Much better. He's able to tap node-magic *through* other mages so that it doesn't burn him hout. He's got a half-dozen of those mages feeding him power from the other side of the mountian, from tapped nodes! He's goint to kill me-and then he's going to march right through here and take Valedemar. And I don't have enough left even in the nodes to call the Final Strike that will take him-" It wasn't Vanyel vs. Leareth. It was Vanyel vs. Leareth's army, the mages Leareth had with him, plus those six feeding Leareth from the other side of the mountain. I'd have to say Vanyel did damn good to even stop Leareth, even if he did die. His duty was to Valdemar. He did his job, at extreme personal cost. To me.. the fact that he was killed in the final confrontation with Leareth, while maybe not fair to *Vanyel* was the way things had to have been. Just my humble thoughts and opinions.. nice to re-meet ya'll ------------------------------------------------------------- Cara Smith nitebird-+AT+-ns.gamewood.net Riana, journeywoman Woodcrafter M'ril, rider of brown Liamith http://www.geocities.com/area51/5777 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 22:21:44 -0500 From: ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Recruitment drive Message-ID: <961118222132_604417814-+AT+-emout13.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-11-18 06:52:24 EST, Hth wrote: > *So,* all those of you who have been so supportive of My Cause in the > past, *please* support the Order of Amber and Marigold, or I'm going to > look pretty silly, being the only one out here spouting all this mushy > stuff. To our banner! > Whew! It's a good thing I saw some responses to this that made me curious (still trying to get caught up on procrastinated list posts). I , NightShade, wish to join also, as a Knight so I can join in the fun of bashing Vanyel haters everywhere ! Also, you asked about the Xena with Callisto? I can't help with the ending, but I can commiserate. I tried to tape that episode, since I couldn't watch it at the time, and guess what? It somehow got screwed up, didn't tape any of it, however I saw a bit of the end and now know/think? Xena's stuck in Callisto's body, but don't know how she got there! Talk about frustrating! Anyway, I hope someone can answer your question for you and the Order of Amber And Marigold is a *very* cool idea! That's it for me, gotta get back to the work of catching up! Blessed Be, NightShade One In Black, Lady Of The Pink Wand, soon to be High Priestess Of All Things Nocturnal, and now Knight Of The Order Of Amber And Marigold (wow, I'm starting to collect titles just like Kory, The Elf Of Many Titles, who is ever adding to them !) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 22:32:02 -0500 From: Korendil To: Subject: Re: Genderless Message-ID: <9611190337.AA21371-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> >I would like to see if any of you other list members think that Cancer >Man from the X-Files would make a good evil character. He perpetuates >horrifying acts over and over and doesn't really comtemplate stopping. >He believes he's doing the right thing, and that is what makes it truly >terrible. A fanatic is about the worst kind of enemy to face. That is >my submission to truly bad Bad Guys. (Can anyone tell who watched the >X-Files last night?) Um....you're misinterpreting him. Cancer Man got suckered into all of this. The government plied him on the things he didn't like until he was in so deep that he didn't have a choice. When he realized this, he tried to tell the truth through a story, which was rejected. So he takes in his role. He becomes the evil villain that was expected and used his power for everything. He had been caring; he respected MLK until he went against things Cancer Man was conditioned to not allow. But then he hardened. And for a long time, he stayed that way. Until he saw a way to get the truth out, through Mulder. So he directed Mulder to the X-Files...then there was the alien shooting. He had enough. Cancer realized that, if Mulder was to stand a chance, he needed a conservative partner who the high up people would believe. Enter Scully, stage right. He has his friend, Deep Throat, help them. But he gets pressured by HIS superiors, and is forced to kill Deep Throat. Enter X. All the while, Cancer Man is playing a delicate dance to stay alive while getting the truth out. When he's forced to kill X, he helps Mulder find the UN person, who's some help. He decides to write the story--again. It gets published, he's happy. Spying on Mulder and Scully and the LGM, he's merciful and let's the LGM live. No-one else knows about them. But the story is published in a tabloid. Messed up. Even so, the LGM realizes this and so the truth begins to surface...deep down, Cancer Man is a good guy. He's more of a Tremane, or amybe a Melles, than a Falconsbane or Hadanelith. ObMisty: um..um..I really need one, don't I? Um..um...um...hmm...uh...uh-oh...now wosshename's gonna get mad over the ums. too bad;P an obmisty.....ah HAH! What if Ma'ar DID try to go against Valdemar again, and that's what the whole Lavan Fire-whatever and WHite Foal Pass thing's about? -+AT+-LIDNEROK___________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________KORENDIL-+AT+- I|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High|I C|Court, Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan, |C U|God of Night and All Things Nocturnal, Champion of the Ladies |U B|of the Pink Wand, Acting Master of Dreams, and Ailurophile. |B E|______________________________________________________________|E D|God did not create the world in 7 days; he screwed around for |D .|6 days and then pulled an all-nighter. |. N|--------------------------------------------------------------|N E|When I was in school,I cheated on my metaphysics exam:I looked|E T|into the soul of the boy sitting next to me. --Woody Allen |T -+AT+-__________________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________________-+AT+- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 23:04:50 -0500 From: Korendil To: Subject: Re: Recruitment drive Message-ID: <9611190410.AA22247-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> >One In Black, Lady Of The Pink Wand, soon to be High Priestess Of All Things >Nocturnal, and now Knight Of The Order Of Amber And Marigold (wow, I'm >starting to collect titles just like Kory, The Elf Of Many Titles, who is >ever adding to them !) Yes, I am, aren't I?;> And as soon as Heather Names me as a Knight, I'll have even more;> But I should really shorten your and Arielle's sigs....so... A shadow appears...as they watch, it darkens...it grows...Flashes of light appear in the center and begin to circle. From a shapeless mass on the floor it becomes a flat, two dimensional circle or spiralling lightning shooting from the center outwards. With each crack, the lightning becomes thicker; soon there's more light than darkness. You can almost see a blurry scenery through the circle now...It's *not* two dimensional anymore. The lightnight forms a spiralling cone shooting outwards from a swirling mass of shadows. The cone of light splits, and a tall Elven Lord, steps outward. Before you can get more than a glimpse of the Underhill Realm form which he has come, the cone melds together once again. With a flick of Korendil's hand, it disappears in totality. He walks toward Nightshade. "Nightshade, I, Lord Korendil of Elfhame Sun-Descending, God of Night, Patron Deity of All Things Nocturnal and Acting Master of Dreams, annoint thee as my High Priestess." With this, he reaches into a pouch and takes out a vial. Removing the stopper, he dips his index finger in. When it arises, the digit is covered in pure darkness. "To serve the Night," he says as he dabs it on her left ear. "To Protect Creatures of the Night," the Elf intones as his finger annoints her left ear. "And to Mark thee as my Highest Servant," says the Sidhe as the remaining liquid connects with Nightshade's forehead. "Thou art Annointed, Nightshade." He turns now to Arielle. "Worry not, Arielle, I have not forgotten thee. Nightshade, watch well. For from now on this shall be one of thy duties. Arielle, I, Lord Korendil of Elfhame Sun-Descending, God of Night, Patron Deity of All Things Nocturnal and Acting Master of Dreams empower thee as my subject," Korendil states as he touches her forehead. A crackling bolt of blue jumps from the finger to the skin. "Thou art Charged with a Most Potent Energy and Task. I have gifted thee with a truly magical ability. My Priestess of Enchanted Caffeine Distribution, it is in thy power to give out to the dutiful masses the power to not need sleep. And fear not, fellow Faeries. This is a grand a wonderful thing, Enchanted Caffeine: All the benefits of the stuff these mortals imbibe with none of our unusual allergies to it. Never more must you be sure not to fall into Dreaming." Korendil turns to the list at large. "These are my Servants, and Marked as such. If harm comes to my High Priestess of Priestess of Enchanted Caffeine Distribution, the penalty will be swiftly enacted with full accordance from fellow Goddesses and Gods." He turns back to the two. "Go out unto the masses now, Nightshade and Arielle. Perform your duties and be rewarded. Serve them wantingly and be--demoted. Convert, but prozyltize (sp?) not." ObMisty: uh...uh...hmmm...can Naming ceremonies not be counted? no? :( um....misty doesn't write such lame Namings for her priest(esse)s? -+AT+-LIDNEROK___________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________KORENDIL-+AT+- I|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High|I C|Court, Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan, |C U|God of Night and All Things Nocturnal, Champion of the Ladies |U B|of the Pink Wand, Acting Master of Dreams, and Ailurophile. |B E|______________________________________________________________|E D|God did not create the world in 7 days; he screwed around for |D .|6 days and then pulled an all-nighter. |. N|--------------------------------------------------------------|N E|When I was in school,I cheated on my metaphysics exam:I looked|E T|into the soul of the boy sitting next to me. --Woody Allen |T -+AT+-__________________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________________-+AT+- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 15:36:01 +1000 From: Melanie Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Nuisance monsters/Van vs Leareth, film at eleven!/OoAM Message-ID: <32914741.5267-+AT+-mat.army.defence.gov.au> Heather wrote: > Leslac is what you would call in D&D terms a "nuisance monster." In > other words, he isn't particularly dangerous, but he is a distraction > (therefore a potential danger) and he just plain wreaks bloody havoc on > the Player Characters' nerves. Worst of all, you can't treat him like > an orc or a gelatinous cube (don't ask) and just kill him. heh... a friend of a friend was GMing AD&D with a group who were wantonly killing everything in sight for the experience points... so he presented them with a single kobold, acting peacefully. They killed him. Later that night all his relatives came out with crossbows. (They had to do it two kobolds to a crossbow, but they managed!) "You swine! You killed my brother!" *twang* ...The players shoot back... *thunk* "Aaaagh!" "You swine! You killed my aunt's sister!" *twang* ... *thunk* "Aaaagh!" "You swine! You killed my father's cousin's half-brother's neice's nephew!" *twang*... That group now hang out "Friendly to kobolds!" notices in tradesign every time they camp! /\/\/\/\/\ Okay, this section is *long*! But it's on topic, soooo... Kerry wrote: > Stopping the army wasn't enough. He had to take Leareth out and > the only way to get near enough to Leareth was to pose a sufficient problem > that Leareth would come to deal with it personally. Danya replied: > Huh? Learth was marching with his army as far as I could tell. He sent > his underlings against Van to wear him down, then stepped in, hoping to > deliver the coups de grace. And Van fell for the tactic. > Van only has to drop the part of the walls around Learth. Leareth was at the *back* of the army, IIRC. Vanyel couldn't reach him - not because he couldn't "shoot" that far, but because he didn't know where Leareth was and therefore couldn't aim at him. Vanyel couldn't just walk through the soldiers looking for him; like Kerry said, he had to get Leareth to come to him, and Leareth wouldn't come out to play until Vanyel had demonstrated that the lesser mages couldn't take him out without their master's help. And about dropping the pass walls on top of Leareth - yes, I think that would have been a great idea, and I think that *when he first got there* Vanyel had enough power to do it - but he couldn't guarantee that Leareth was even in the pass at the time. If he'd dropped the walls and not caught the Evil Mastermind (tm), he wouldn't have achieved anything except squashing a few soldiers; Leareth would have sent lesser mages to clear out the blockade and start fighting Vanyel, and we'd be right back at the original plot except that it would have taken a couple more pages to get to that point. By the time Leareth turned up, Vanyel was already tired from fighting and had to save his energy for directly fighting him, not rock-dropping. Deniz: >Danya, how are you getting that Van was the reason Leareth came to Valdemar? Danya: > [munch] It is quite plain that after Van died the Falconsbane-to-be didn't > come back and invade Valdemar (what he was after was no longer there), and > he wasn't invading Valdemar before Van became a Herald-Mage. There's > textevd in there somewhere that this wasn't just lucky timing on Valdemar's > part; I just can't remember which book I read it in. Ma'ar/Leareth/Falconsbane was after land and temporal power the whole time. After Vanyel died, the vrondi were on the lookout, the Barrier was up, and Sorrows had a guardian. By the time M/L/F got himself a new body and came back to have a look - assuming he was even reborn near Valdemar! - Valdemar was a much harder nut to crack, not worth the trouble. And Leareth was messing around with Valdemar before Van developed his powers and got Chosen; he was indirectly responsible for Staven's death (Tylendel's brother, if I've got the spelling wrong), and had done more before that. Before anyone jumps on me, yes, the Leshara family hired Krebain to take care of Staven; but Krebain told Vanyel at the end of MPawn that he'd been pleased that the assassination also fit his "real master's" plans; I'm one of the people who believes that Krebain was working for Leareth. (Textevd later if anyone wants it - today, books-+AT+-home, me-+AT+-work.) I also think that Leareth was "Master Dark", who'd been active in the area for generations. (Leareth translates as "Darkness", for example.) Deniz: > I thought he had been planning on getting Valdemar for a while. Remember > how he had been taking out every child whose potential matured to Mage Gift > on the instant? Danya: > Okay, as I say it's been a while since I read the books, but follow me for > a moment. Blood-path mage, right? Is there some extra kick that he gets > from Mage potential and/or mages that he doesn't get from ordinary folks? > Hmm, the textevd for a super-Mage devouring power from other mages is in > SB, unfortunately. Remember, Falconsbane is preying on Taleydras-types not > on the Shin'a'in. Yes, but Falconsbane *wanted* to go after the Shin'a'in, for the artefacts under the Plains; he'd just never managed to get his creatures onto the Plains unobserved. I got the impression he was only after the Tayledras for the Heartstone, not because he got extra jollies from killing them; IIRC, if you kill *from a distance* you can't get any energy out of it unless you've previously set up a tie to that person, which requires close contact. (Like you-know-who had "hooks" in people... I'd better shut up on that line now...) Leareth had no chance to set up "hooks" before he killed the Mage-Gifted children, he was just making sure there would be a shortage of Herald-Mages to oppose him when he attacked. There was a bit about "he had to die so people would stop depending on Herald-Mages" "he could have hidden in Sorrows, still defending it but alive" - very long, so I'm not quoting - said by Shannon and Danya. Yes, *if* he survived and *if* Yfandes and Vanyel both thought it was the best idea, they could have hidden in Sorrows while Stefen worked on changing people's attitudes. I see a couple of problems with that, though; for one thing, how were they going to get to Sorrows without being spotted? IIRC, the forest wasn't very close to the pass. Two, they had a lot more power to defend Sorrows with after their death, *because* they were dead; whole raiding bands killed all at once, etc. One Herald-Mage and Companion, defending that entire section of border, with his sword and magic? At least one raider would have gotten away and spread the story, eventually. Sooner or later they would have been found out. Heather: > The very nature of Final Strike, as I understand it from LHM and > CotN, is that it takes very little power to activate. It's what you do > when you've tried everything else, *and exhausted yourself,* and you > don't want to die by yourself. So then, it only makes sense that the > spell is one a dying mage can trigger -- i.e. not that hard. So just > because he had the power remaining to call down a Final Strike does not > necessarily mean that he had the power to collapse a mountain. Danya: > Actually, if I recall the scene correctly, Yfandes had to link with him and > feed him the power required to activate the spell. You don't want it to be > something easy to do, or you'd run the risk of your low-level mage students > doing it by accident. I'm pretty sure it's an Adept-level spell in Misty's > world, just as it is in most gaming systems. In fact, I seem to remember > that Van had to reach for distant nodes to have the power to pull it off . > . . or something like that. It doesn't have to take a lot of power to be Adept-level, it just has to be *difficult*. (I think it'd be Master level at most, though... hmmm! Interesting question!) Van was horrified to realise that he'd drained himself down so far that he "didn't even have enough power" for a Final Strike; that implies that he *expected* to have enough power left for FS even though he didn't have enough to hit Leareth any more, which means FS takes only a little. He tried to find a little more power in the local nodes, or reach a further one, but couldn't; and then Yfandes turned up (almost exhausted herself) and shared the last of her power with him, which was just enough. So yes, you were right about the linking thing, it's just that the power quantities involved were *way* lower than you thought. Again, textevd available on request... Jeff Pugh: (about Leareth cutting the pass) > And besides, seeing as he's got several underlings on the other side of the > mountains feeding him power, I don't think that it would make a noticeable > amount of weakness. Danya: > Then the underlings should be drained and unable to battle with Van. I imagine a lot of them *were* drained during that battle; Leareth probably sucked them dry. But that still left Leareth with all his personal power, which he hadn't had to use at all, when Vanyel was drained. Besides, we don't know *how*many* mage-underlings Leareth had! He'd probably been scooping up every Talented child north of the pass for who knows how long... some to cut the pass, some to control the army, some to link to nodes and feed him... all this on top of the fact that *Leareth was a stronger mage than Vanyel to begin with!* Vanyel said so! (Boy, I'd *BETTER* provide textevd for this one, or I'll be in BIG trouble! ) Korendil: > I think that he didn't start attacking Valdemar again because A: he had to > wait for a body, B: he was prolly in a different location when he did, and > C: he seems to lost memories with each incarnation. Danya: > Fact: Falconsbane did not got after Valdemar; he went after Taleydras > mages. He was a long way from Valdemar; remember, Elspeth and Skif went way south and then crossed part of the Dhorisha Plains to get to Tayledras territory. Remember, the Tayledras were just about legendary in Valdemar even in Vanyel's time; you don't give legend status to your next-door-neighbours! > Fact: The Taleydras were far better equipped to defend themselves against > a mage in Falconsbane's day than Valdemar was. Valdemar had the Barrier; admittedly weakened, but there. > I don't remember any evidence that he lost his memories of his previous > life. He didn't lose *all* his memories, but he did lose some memories (and some sanity) with every incarnation. An'desha had better access to Falconsbane's memories than Falconsbane himself did (I know, I know, textevd will come! Soon!). Even when Falconsbane ended up in Ancar's castle, and Ancar told him about Valdemar and Heralds, etc, he *didn't remember* anything about Valdemar! He had some vague recollection that white outfits "meant something somewhere" but didn't follow it up. Yes, Leareth had the experience of his past lives to draw on, but not all of it; and Falconsbane was numerous incarnations later, after he'd deteriorated further. Er. Looking back on this bit, it seems that I've taken perverse pleasure on jumping on Danya's ideas with both feet... it isn't intended that way! You just hit a lot of points that I remember differently... sorry, Danya! /\/\/\/\/\ Order of Amber and Marigold: I wanna join! I wanna join! Can I be a Knight, please, Heather? Errr... I can't submit this post as evidence of my dedication to defending Vanyel, because Danya isn't saying anything that Vanyel needs to be defended against... so I'll just promise to defend him if it becomes necessary in future! Is that OK? Mel the Redcap Redcap of the Pink Wand Potential Goddess of Supernaturally Scary Socks (not digests!) Possible Knight of the OAM! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:02:00 +1000 From: Melanie Harris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Vrondi Message-ID: <32914D58.6D4F-+AT+-mat.army.defence.gov.au> Ele wrote: > BTW, you probably HAVE discussed this at length, and if so, please let me > know. But how is Keth able to trance and gather energies around her, pass > her Adept test in the forest and then disguise Tarma magically right in the > living room of Roald's lodge, when the vrondi should have been driving her > crazy. I know that in BTS Kero mentions something about her grandmother > telling her there was some mistery in Valdemar concerning mages, but.... The vrondi don't have any clear knowledge of where the border of Valdemar is; they judge the boundaries by where Heralds have been performing Truth Spell lately, and sometimes (if Heralds haven't been there for a while, or haven't needed to Truth Spell anyone) the borders shrink as far as they're concerned. So, since Roald's lodge was right on the border in an almost unpopulated area, there had been no recent Truth Spells performed there, and the vrondi weren't interested. If Roald had done Truth Spell on his unexpected visitors to find out if they were trustworthy instead of being convinced by Kal'enel, the vrondi would have been paying attention when Keth used magic and would have jumped on her! Mel the Redcap Redcap of the Pink Wand Possible Knight of the OAM Potential Goddess of Supernaturally Scary Socks (not digests!) who yesterday wore socks with sheep all over them, and "Did you know that there are ten sheep for every person in Australia" woven into the feet... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:05:54 -0800 From: Jeff Pugh To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Official Delurk/Vanyel Final Strike Message-ID: <32916A62.375C-+AT+-inter-linc.com> Cara S. Smith wrote: > > > > On page 325, of Magic's Price, > > "I wonder if I can hold against him. Or even-take him? > "Hope rose in him, and he probed a little around Leareith's shields. > "And hid a shock of dismay. He's better than I am. Much better. > He's able to tap node-magic *through* other mages so that it doesn't burn > him hout. He's got a half-dozen of those mages feeding him power from the > other side of the mountian, from tapped nodes! He's goint to kill me-and > then he's going to march right through here and take Valedemar. And I don't > have enough left even in the nodes to call the Final Strike that will take him-" > > It wasn't Vanyel vs. Leareth. It was Vanyel vs. Leareth's army, the mages > Leareth had with him, plus those six feeding Leareth from the other side of > the mountain. > > > See? I was right! I guess after you read the book for the 9th time, you don't even need it anymore. So maybe I'll give it to a friend, and try to get him into 'em...NAHHH.;^> MINE, ALL MINE!!!!! AND YOU CAN'T HAVE THEM!!!!! GET _AWAY_ FROM MY BOOKS!!!!!*rotflmao* Okay, that's all for now. Oh yeah~ I'd like to express my intent to join the Order of Amber And Marigold. And I realize, I must seem like a hypocrite, putting Van down up there and then asking to join the Order. I just said things the way I _think_ they were. If I offended anyone, DON'T KILL ME! AT LEAST... NOT YET ANYWAY!!! *grYn* -- ~AmpliFireCat~ (or just Ampli) -Acolyte of Music And Song "Well, to fit in on the Seattle scene, you gotta do something they ain't never seen, so we was sitting around one day and decided to be the only band that wouldn't play a note. Under any circumstances. Silence- music's original alternative." "Talkin' Seattle Grunge Rock Blues" -Tod Snyder ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 16:17:10 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Van / Final Strike. Message-ID: <9611190517.AA16973-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Ele wrote: >Someone wrote (sorry, got into a deleting frenzy before time) (I, Kerry wrote the original) :) >> >to lack the in-depth training that Savil or the Tayledras had - he seemed >> >to have the basics down pat, but not the in-depth theoretical knowledge >> >that they had - he winged it based on hypotheses and intuition without >> >necessarily having the background to let him think of things like losing >> >his ground so that his shields could spin with the winds. > > I tend to disagree. Even though Van was probably not Firesong's equal, in > the sense that he did not develop as many spells or abilities as his > descendant, he is pictured as a mage who did things no one had tried before, > and mainly on his own. (Van probably did not have as much time for idle > experimenting as Firesong did). > I think there is enough evidence for Van having in-depth theoretical > knowledge. Remember HIS changing the Web spell so as to tie all the Heralds > as the power source, and his making a heartstone in the center of Haven. > Also, his involving the vrondi, etc. Even if he is not as good with set > spells as Savil, he is described as the ranking Herald mage for encounters > that do not involve the kind of complicated ravelling and unravelling a set > spell might imply. That would mean he can also be original and creative in > his arcane duels as well as in more ordinary endeavours. Am I making any > sense? Mmm, that makes sense - those things did cross my mind, which was why I said he was a natural - and winged it based on intuition and hypotheses rather than from theory. Theory wouldn't necessarily have helped him do those things. On the other hand, he obviously knew how to use a Heartstone - though it's debatable whether he knew exactly how to create one a la Tayledras. I got the impression it was something he'd seen, that he went about trying to duplicate. It just seemed to me sometimes as if Van was what's known as a natural, in most fields and his great ability filled in the gaps in his formal training. I don't feel really strongly either way about this, but that's the impression I retained. Possibly because Magic always seemed mysterious and awesome in LHM, as opposed to Winds.. Danya said: >>I'm pretty sure it's an Adept-level spell in Misty's world, just as >>it is in most gaming systems. Emily replied: >I seem to recall someone who was not an Adept (Kethry?) saying that >if all else failed, they would do a final strike on the mage they >were fighting. The basic purpose of Final Strike is that you die, but >you take your last enemy with you. I also remember someone saying >Not even an Adept can withstand a Final Strike, but I can't remember >who. Usual drill, books in PA, me in OH. Anyone can final-strike. There's textevd throughout the books. Ancar, for example uses himself up in a prolonged version of a final strike. The power-level may differ, of course, but it always will, depending on how drained the mage is, and how deep their energy reserve is. It's not a spell, it's a final sacrifice for a massive amount of power. L-wazzizname (the Fire-Starting Herald. Jaguar's Companion) called down a final Strike and he wasn't mage-gifted, just a fire-starter. I'd say any gifted person with a gift that lets them use energy can use their last life-force to fuel their gift, in a Final Strike. Fire-starters, obviously. The Mental gifts can still strike out as well.. All the gifts work more strongly based on emotions (Tashir's use of Fetching to protect himself for example), so they ought all to be power-able by a persons internal life-force. (In fact you could get blood-path Mind-Gifted as well, using the life energy from their victims - eg the kook from Silver Gryphon). Note that the final strike from an energy-well like a mage (Mages store energy intrinsically, whereas mind-gifted don't necessarily - much like a Jacqueline Lichtenburg Channel Sime, as opposed to a RenSime) will be greater than that from a normal person, because of those extra depths. Cheers, Kerry. "When the time comes, you go alone And leave the light on, at the top of the stairs." --Shriekback, "Dust and Shadows." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:44:57 EST From: anderbdm-+AT+-juno.com (Dawn L. Anderson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Recruitment drive (Fluff) Message-ID: <19961118.234013.3910.0.anderbdm-+AT+-juno.com> Dame Marigold I formally request entry into your order. I am one of the many who have fallen under Vanyel's spell. And would come out of Lurkdom to defend his honor. Sorceress Iris/Dawn On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:20:58 GMT Seranna-+AT+-aol.com writes: >In a message dated 96-11-18 06:52:04 EST, HTH wrote: > ><< I would like formally invite Vanyel's supporters into an >undertaking of > great righteousness and worth -- namely, the Order of Amber and > Marigold. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:49:39 -0500 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: Brvaes Glares At ISP For Losing DNS For 38 Hours Message-ID: <199611190050_MC1-C1E-B682-+AT+-compuserve.com> NO REDEAMING VALUE WHATSOEVER IN THIS POST! >From Kory's post >>Note, the Eng stuff can be a bit annoying >correction, Eng is annoying period;> I can't resist, esp. after the 'um' discussion 'Eng' in dutch means 'scary' - so forget annoying and go with down right horrifying! Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 00:11:32 -0500 From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Final Strike and Van stuff//Monogamy/Hertasi and Message-ID: <199611190601.BAA29571-+AT+-sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> prelude -- We talked a *LOT* today. Final Strike: Ok, this is how I interpereted Final Strike. This is basically the ultimate blood magic. You use the energy of your death to kill the other person. You pack a lot of whammy in your life force. I don't know why, that's just how I always thought of it. That's another reason why Leareth might not be stopped too much by the walls collapsing on him. I'm sure that Van wouldn't just dump it on him, and some other suckers would die or be seriously wounded in such an event. Leareth would just get an extra boost, right? I mean, look at all the pain. Danya said: >>>Huh? I don't understand what you are seeing as twisted. Fact: Falconsbane did not got after Valdemar; he went after Taleydras mages. Fact: The Taleydras were far better equipped to defend themselves against a mage in Falconsbane's day than Valdemar was. Conclusion: Valdemar did not have what Falconsbane was after.<<< Fact: Falconsbane went after the Tayledras *heartstone* -- the mages were only in the way or tools to get the stone. Fact: Leareth went after the Valdemar gifted as they matured. Fact: Van was Leareth's last failed attempt at the previous. All the others succeeded. Conclusion: Leareth was going after the Valdemar nodes and especially the *heartstone* Van created. He was destroying the mages to winnow the field to make it that much easier to get at the power. >>>I don't remember any evidence that he lost his memories of his previous life. If he did, then that sort of knocks out the argument someone else made that Leareth had more experience than Vanyel because of the previous lives.<<< What does Mornelithe mean? Evil that Returns, with implications of over a long time. Why is he obsessed with gryphons? He remembers. Nice try, though. >>>A low car battery won't start the car. And Van did have Yfandes.<<< But Yfandes' recharge light was blinking, because she had just fetched Stefen to the Border Post and herself back in as little time as Companionly possible, while Leareth still had a few spares still tapped into the circuits (ie: was beeing fed by mages who were tapping *node* energy). >>>Couple of thoughts on that. Yfandes could have been convinced that taking Van out of the loop was in the best interest of Valdemar and by defending Sorrows he would be performing his duty as Herald--only he'd be alive while doing it instead of dead.<<< Yah, but would *Vanyel* be convinced? I'm sure that he would have had the irresistable urge to go help out somewhere else where he was needed. >>>And I think the Companions could have done _something_ to make the Heralds think Van was dead. Most of them can only feel the Web when a Herald dies. And if the Companions couldn't do something to fake the death Stef's a Bard. Couldn't he have come up with some explanation that the Heralds would have bought? Van went directly to the Havens and did not pass Go and did not collect his $200? Or some nonsense like that? Or that they didn't feel him die because, with his last breath, he sent his life force into the Web? Stef was a superb Bard. I think he could have come up with something that would have flown.<<< Sure, but how would you explain it when he finally *did* die and everyone felt it? He died twice? Sorry, but no dice. Oh, and Woodlark says (a la Amberdrake), "Some people think Bards can do *anything!*" Kerry said: >>>Danya, perhaps we're reading different things, or placing different emphases on Vanyel's Foresight visions. To me, the major point to Vanyel, was not that he saw himself dying, but that he saw himself dying, alone, unmourned and dying in vain. In the end, he died saving Valdemar, with his heart-sib at his side - he -did- change things. 2 out of 3 ain't bad.<<< Oooh! Touche! Good point! But that won't stop me from addressing hers. Oh, another point. Don't forget that the longer Ma'ar reincarnated, the more insane he got. When he was Ma'ar, he had a sick kind of logic that would almost convince you to seeing it all his way. When he was Falconsbane, he was plain obsessed. |!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!| Korendil said: >>>>IS >"heyla" a very common salutation (I'd never heard heyla as a salutation >prior to reading Misty's work) no, and this is a subject I wanna touch on...all through, we think of "Heyla" as being Kaled'a'in culture centered...yet, looking through, the first use of it is, iirc Radeval (sp?), Van's cousin (or was it Mekeal, his brother? I forget)! I built around this and have a little theory: The Ashkevrons are descendants of Tayledras. My evidence? The name, Askhevron; the use of Heyla; the mage potential in the Ashkevrons; and the fault line in MPromise. They stayed behind and became integrated with the encroaching Valdemaran culture, and eventually forgot their roots...<<< You forgot THE NOSE!!!!! *grin* That definitely adds weight to your argument. I bet it's the same as Tarma's. |!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!| Jacquelle said: >>>And once they both did admit to the bond, they were completely monogomous, and IMO, wouldn't have even thought of seeking another for any reason.<<< Well, I should *hope* Talia wouldn't see anyone else! Remember how devastated Dirk was when that manipulative little bitch used him to get to Kris? No matter how many times Talia tells him that he's the one she loves the most and that things will never change in that respect, he doesn't have the self-confidence to make it if Talia went with someone else, no matter how casual, and Talia is too sensitive an empath, not to mention lifebonded, to do that. However, Talia probably wouldn't mind if Dirk went off every now and then with another person, I mean, the Holderkin men had more than one wife. >>>I also have to echo whoever it was that pointed out the comment in LHM about how shocked everyone (who knew, that is) was that Shavri would consider having sex with someone other than her lifebonded. I think this is pretty strong evidence that lifebondeds are monogomous, that they are so committed to their lifebondeds that they couldn't seek someone else.<<< Er... Two things. Who knew? Van. Shavri. Randale. Savil and Jaysen didn't find out until they *had* to. I'm gonna have to echo whoever it was who pointed out that that was an example from Haven in Valdemar -- they're not the only society in Velgarth. The Holderkin didn't even know about/subscribe to lifebonds! |!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!| A looooong time ago (two months?) somebody was wondering about whether the hertasi and kyree were pre- or post- Mage Wars. Well, I'm rereading BG, and came across textevd (Cennydd, here you go) BG PB p. 56: "[Skandranon] had heard Urtho mention some kind of vague plans he'd had, of planting [the gryphons] in little aeries in some of the wilder parts of the mountains, creating yet another population of nonhuman intelligences, as Urtho's predecessors had done with the hertasi and kyree." |!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!| Lady Silvermoon said: >>>Sadly I've been feeling betrayed a lot lately. And I don't think there is anything I can do about it.<<< Both Lady Woodlark and I are teaming up for this one, m'Lady. ((((((((((hugs)))))))))) scented with cinnamon, cooking apple pie, and fresh vanilla and ~~~~~whisper of melody~~~~~ how about the "Agnus Dei" from Faure's Requiem love, deniz sarikaya, High Priestess |But she had the trick of making a little of Procrastination, Holy Custo-|island right in the middle of time, and of dian of the BDay List, and Dame|your knowing, which is what time does to of Amber and Marigold. |you. -- Robert Penn Warren dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 22:00:39 -0800 (PST) From: Paradox To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Recruitment drive Message-ID: <199611190600.WAA10281-+AT+-uclink4.berkeley.edu> Hth wrote: >I would like formally invite Vanyel's supporters into an undertaking of >great righteousness and worth -- namely, the Order of Amber and >Marigold. I would be honored if you would accept my petition for membership in the Order of Amber and Marigold. Everyone should have people willing to fight for their honor. I am more than willing to uphold Vanyel's ideals and such, being as he is such a cool figure. I would support that man to the ends of the Earth (or Valdemar as the case may be). PLease consider me. Briana ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:24:56 -0500 From: LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Ladies of the Pink Wand- Info for the Confused & Curious Message-ID: <961118231754_351490776-+AT+-emout12.mail.aol.com> on Sun, 17 Nov. Tresta wrote >>Ah- Lilac Fairy? I know the requirement for the Pink Wand is to "fall for" she'chorne men. But does "fall for" imply a physical interest?<< Let your fairy godmother put it this way- the group of gentlemen whom The Ladies hold in regard are known as the "Objects of Unrequited Love/Lust". So, yes, "physical interest" is more than implied! Ele wrote: >>Also, I have been advised to apply to the ladies of the Pink Wand, my main claim being that I'm a straight female who happened to fall in love with Vanyel . What do you say, ladies? Will I be accepted? << Your certainly qualify! Welcome! The Ladies of the Pink Wand is open to any Lady on the Misty List who adores fictional gay men, such as Vanyel, Firesong, Silverfox, Cennydd and Mat the Cat. There are also Champions of the Ladies of the Pink Wand, i.e. those who aren't straight women who love gay men. You don't need to ask permission to use these titles. But if you're truly mad and have nothing better to do you can join the off-list discussion group in The Lilac Fairy's woodland bower, which right now is running about half playful fluff and half serious discussion of fantasy books, films and music. Undine is our Bibliomancer, who lets us know when new books are coming out, and maintains a list of titles of interest to readers of fantasy. Heather the Wand-Sworn protects us from flamers and rude behavior, aided by the pink fire-breathing badgers Pink Sonya and Jirel of Jersey. MistyWisty recently found an apparently endless basket of virtual kittens, so everyone has one to play with. The Food Spell provides us with endless munchies of whatever kind we wish for at the moment. When Cennydd is in the mood, he does his famous exotic dances for us. Email the Lilac Fairy if you wish to know more. The Lilac Fairy Lady of the Pink Wand Lee Cox ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:02:44 -0600 From: singer-+AT+-iglobal.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Our Beloved Vanyel/Companions and Trust Message-ID: On 11/18, Kerry Mealing wrote: >he was a natural - and winged it based on intuition and hypotheses >rather than from theory. Theory wouldn't necessarily have helped him do >those things. >It just seemed to me sometimes as if Van was what's known as a natural, >in most fields and his great ability filled in the gaps in his formal >training. It seems to me that this may be an unintentional answer to a post I made some weeks ago about how special Van was (ohh, this new familiarity is wonderful!!) and how he always seemed to know what to do magically. (Don't come after me on this Dayna ; I wrote that before you're Great Debate about Van's Final Strike, and I don't have energy or inclination to defend myself on this) Anyway, one of the questions I asked at that time was whether he had to practice. What Kerry said just seemed to fit with what I said. Van was just a wonderful, brilliant, gold-hearted natural. Re: Companions and Trust: Lady Becky wondered whether the newly Chosen Heralds were ever frightened by the depth and intimacy of the Companion bond, and the trust that it neccesitated on their parts, especially children like Skif and Neave and Talia, who had never really known love or trust. She wonders about their apparantly quick adjustment to such bonds. I started this thread with my post on Eavesdropping Companions, and Lady Becky asked some questions that I wondered about at that time. When I started thinking about trust and intimacy, Neave especially came immediatly to my mind. How frightening, and corageous, for him to be able to accept what his Companion offered him! What kind of adjustments would he have had to make? Later, Vix came up with a possibe answer to these questions. She suggested that there might be magic in the bond that acted as a mental salve or the forging of the bond is such a good feeling that it washes away doubts. Both are good suggestions; I find myself leaning toward the first suggestion- that of magic in the bond. Presuming for a moment that this is the case, then the magic would apply in all cases, but maybe especially in cases like Neave's. The Companions must sense some of the damage to their Chosen and perhaps they make an extra effort to soothe. The Companion would know that the trust issue would be a big one for some time, and that his or her (the Companion's) help would be needed in days to come at the Collegium, for the Chosen to adapt to life there and form the necessary bonds. In other words, the Companion would be even more interested than usual in establishing trust with their Chosen, in becoming a source of strength *and* comfort, because if a damaged child can have such an absolute friend, he or she may be able to face a new situation with strength. Maybe love is enough. (Though in my opinion, people would still be harder. And I stll feel uneasy about Companions and You Know.) Go Gently, Tresta %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Tresta shena Jor'ethan "Love must live free." Healer to horses -Shin'a'in Teaching OAM %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "To be tired of horses is to be tired of life; horses are a gift to us." %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 962 *********************************