MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 981 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) silence/star trek/short stories/scale/sorry/sobmisty by dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA 2) Reply to: Holidays by Rozanna McNeer 3) bi/Tremane/Claudia Christian by Rainwood/Jefferson 4) Re: /star trek/ by "JAIME HATHAWAY" 5) Re: A final post from Jake by "JAIME HATHAWAY" 6) never mind, sorry by "JAIME HATHAWAY" 7) Re: Reply to: Holidays by Chris & Sean Talbot 8) Monty Python (pure fluff) by Becky Anne Christensen 9) Tremane & Stef by "Hth." 10) Re: bi by "Cara S. Smith" 11) Re: bilines/"bi"te me!/belly buttons/books/-blinded/belief by GraceInOne-+AT+-aol.com 12) Bi stuff by Kat 13) Claudia Christian (no Misty) by "Hth." 14) Stefen by "Katherine M. Brielmaier" 15) Jake leaving... by Soljan-+AT+-aol.com 16) Reply to: Newbies/Sexual Orientation/Sheep by Rozanna McNeer 17) Gay charactes and discussion thereof by Mat the Cat in Green 18) Poetry (off-topic but possibly relevant) by Eleonora 19) Friendship/list siblings/virtual friendship rings by "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" 20) Poetry (off-topic but possibly relevant) by grendel-+AT+-novalink.com (Chris J. Beveridge) 21) LoA/French/Star Trek/sexuality/family/Gibran by dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Nov 96 11:46:07 -0500 From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: silence/star trek/short stories/scale/sorry/sobmisty Message-ID: <199611241657.LAA09916-+AT+-sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> First, a moment of silence. I truly will miss Jake, and devoutly hope I didn't drive him away with my crack about m*me. I didn't know it's connection with the other thing, and I didn't know how much Jake didn't appreciate it. I have been corrected, and would just like to make a quick apology. Jake, I'm sorry. I know you can't hear me here, but I've written to you, and I wanted the list to know, too. I'm not a coldhearted, unthinking bitch -- or at least, I'd like to think not. I'd also like to apologize for some of my snippy behaviour regarding the Vanyel conversation. I'd like to think I got better as it went along, but I'm not that sure. You know, I think I'm just gonna shut up for a while, and let woodlark keep up for me. Summersong inquired: > WHO'S GOING TO SEE > FIRST CONTACT????? I'm going Sunday! Woodlark and I are going today at 4:00, as soon as she gets out of her rehearsal. She has two concerts coming up -- this Friday (solo city) and next Friday, and rehearsals every day but three untill then. I swear she's molting. Morningstar obMisty'ed: >Obmisty? Well... Um. Guess I have to drag my over-taxed brain out and >inquire into some stuff. Where can I find short Misty stories? I have >some of the Sword and Sorceress anthologies, and I'm getting Horse >Fantastic soon, and I have a couple Catfantastic, are there any others? Yeah, there are MZB's Fantasy Magazine (or somesuch like that), and Misty has a short story in each of the first two volumes (which are the only ones out so far as I'm aware). Cennyd wrote: >On Sat, 23 Nov 1996, Deniz wrote: Okay, that's it, right there. What he said. >> The distribution on this is like the bell curve > >This is actually a misconception, I think. I would expect something >more like a U-shaped curve. However, that is just my own hypothesis and I >know of no clinical evidence, one way or the other. I would welcome hearing >about it if someone has some, though. =) Oops. I was misconcepted. Bad me. Well, does it help it was late at night? Okay, If this gets discussed, I'm just watching from the sidelines. I've just proved how little I know. I hate doing this, bringing up subjects I don't know, it's a perfect setup for sticking my foot in my mouth. Well, I've pulled out the eggs and the bread-crumbs, so there you have it! Breaded Foot in the Mouth! >On Sun, 24 Nov 1996, Kory wrote: >> Kenneth? How do you say "I'm bored" in French, and what's the adjective >> used for "cute"? > >Well, probably the best way of saying it would be "je m'ennuye" or "c'est >ennuyeux." At least, that would be how in Standard French. I just found >out that in Quebecois, "tu m'ennuyes" means "I miss you." In Standard, it >looks like "you are boring me." Hurt itty-bitties and misunderstandings >*all over* the room! =) Hmm. I didn't know that. I'll ask my friends for some more Quebecois patter. By the way, Ken, you forgot "cute." I'm no Cenn, but what the h*ll. Actually, that depends on what kind of cute you mean, Kory. Cute as a button? Mignon(ne)(s). Or cute as in good-looking/attractive? I'm not sure on this one. My slang isn't wonderful. But there's <> (seductive) and <> (for a guy -- he's good looking) or <> (for a girl -- same old) by the way, these are veeery tame expressions -- the kind of things that would pass in a G-rated movie. I'm pretty sure Cennydd will correct whatever's wrong in here and give you juicier slang. >Yes, I do. Well, not big bunchies or anything, but some. I have enough >problems convincing people on this list that I am not some horrible >monster who lives to flame anyone who steps out of line. Sorry. I'm one of the guilty parties. Would it be ok if the next time I say something like, "... Cennydd, who is normally an absolutely wonderful person, will come after your bones. But we still love him. :)"? obmisty: You know, I'm gonna have to agree with whoever said BG wasn't that amazing. It was the best of the Gryphons, but as I re-read it, it didn't feel as tight as I gave it credit for on the first go. More slap-dash. I can't wait 'till Fire Rose comes out in pb, and SB and Firebird come out, period (in CANADA). I'll be treking to the bookstore everyday. (It's one of those multi-floor, chairs in convenient places, little cafe inside type bookstores. Man, I *love* chapters.) love, deniz sarikaya, High Priestess |But she had the trick of making a little of Procrastination, Holy Custo-|island right in the middle of time, and of dian of the B-Day List, and |your knowing, which is what time does to Dame of Amber and Marigold. |you. -- Robert Penn Warren dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 12:32:20 -0500 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: Holidays Message-ID: <199611241232_MC1-C62-C6AB-+AT+-compuserve.com> Lorraine, the Almost-Goddess of Domesticity/Laundry, said: >--It's been a while since I've read the Valdemar books--but I don't really recall >any holidays mentioned---other than Sowan, for remembrance, soooooo--do >they or don't they have holidays ? And, if they do---what were they? Well, Midsummer's day was a holiday (also Talia's bday) On Midsummer's Eve couples would go out in the wood to spend the night, with the reasoning that they'd wake up early already there and so get the best flowers ( yeah right) Midsummer's Eve was for lover's, but Midsummer's day was for families, and every female was given either a bouquet of flowers or a basket of fresh fruit/food Sovvan seemed to me to be a cross between thanksgiving/halloween/ and the Japanese holiday specifically dedicated to remembering the dead (the one with the boats made of rice paper. help? does anyone know what I'm referring to?) Thanksgiving/Halloween -> both seem like celebration of harvest-end (giving away/sharing good food) although Halloween does have the All Hallow's Night worked into it (the night the spirits walk in our world) Is that why people dressed up? So that if they had to go out, the spirits would not take them for people, but for other spirits, and leave them alone? Since it's pre-industrial, I assume they still celebrate Midwinter -- Talia and Judus are coming to mind -- they do, then. I wouldn't be surprised if they had Beltaine or some other form of 'spring has started, let's have the fertility-insuring' holiday Did I get all the major ones? Fellow Celt enthusiates? Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 20:08:10 -0800 From: Rainwood/Jefferson To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: bi/Tremane/Claudia Christian Message-ID: <3297CA2A.7DAD-+AT+-earthlink.net> Ken Hyde wrote: > > While you are working on it (and I think you should write it), you might > want to read R.A.Rivkin's books This was regarding good lesbian characters. Well, I will surely check these books out. One character I can think of off the top of my head was Friday - in the book of the same name and I forget who wrote it. She wasn't gay, but iirc, she was definitely bi. And she was this really cool sortof secret agent - I loved this book! Was it Heinlein? Does anyone know which book I am referring to? Remind me please! > More Cennydd: Does anyone else agree with me that the man is > paranoid to the point of being delusional in SW? I know that we have some > psych people on the list, so let me ask, what would your diagnosis be of > Tremane's behavior? You know, I agree that he was totally paranoid, but I'd say he was not insane. He seemed fairly rational. I think that his paranoia was more a result of living in the Empire/being the potential Heir, etc. He'd been raised his whole life in an certain atmosphere - he'd learned to react in specific ways to certain situations - so I'd say he was conditioned to react the way he did. PS. This is off-topic, but if anyone is a Claudia Christian/Bab5 fan - she just released her new mini-CD!!!! It's just the single _Taboo_ and the B side. I heard it a few months ago right after she came out of the studio and it is AMAZING. Very, very, er, sexy. You can get her PO box off my husband's website: http://home.earthlink.net/~macstager/bohemians/ Send a SASE and she'll write back to you with all the gory details. You've got to go into the _The Cast_ section of the main page - and follow the links to Claudia, and voila! Auntie Claude herself! WTTW, Rainwood Knight of the OAM, Lady of the Pink Wand Almost-High Priestess of Domesticity and Laundry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 12:38:51 CST From: "JAIME HATHAWAY" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: /star trek/ Message-ID: Summersong inquired: > > WHO'S GOING TO SEE > > FIRST CONTACT????? I'm going Sunday! > Guys, I just saw it, and if you like Trek, this is the best by far that I have seen in a long time. Data rocks, and Patrick Stewart is at his VERY BEST. He doesn't get any better than this. And Troi gets ....welll, go see it, I won't spoil it for you. Jacquelle sorry, no obmisty.... > "You broke your little ships." Lily to Picard Star Trek: First Contact ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 12:48:19 CST From: "JAIME HATHAWAY" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A final post from Jake Message-ID: Jake unsubscribed and asked me to post this, since he got it bounced > back. Post follows: > > > *looking at Korendil* You don't get it. You just don't. *sigh* *throwing > hands up in the air* I can't take it anymore. I'm unsubscribing as of > today. What happened to the list? Someone tell me, 'cause something did. > I'm keeping my FAQ administrator hat, shelving my title, and perhaps I'll be > back some time later once this foolishness finally knocks off. Goodbye. Ummm, guys..? What happened here? I must have completely missed some posts, or something, cause I haven't a clue what's going on. Why did Jake leave? Ok, I'll think of an obmisty for this one...oh, to whoever asked about holidays, specifically Midwinter, iirc, the Collegium takes about two months off for Midwinter holidays. I think the textevd is in Arrows of the Queen...anyone have it? Jacquelle > Ex astris, scientia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 12:54:36 CST From: "JAIME HATHAWAY" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: never mind, sorry Message-ID: Just forget my last post...my brain was on vacation (or maybe still on the Enterprise), but I don't know what I was thinking. Of course I remember about Jake. I'm really sorry. Oh, and Korendil, if it makes you feel better, I knew you were being sarcastic, too, about Jane Austin. Sorry again....i have to learn to think before I write. Jacquelle Cognosco Etiam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 14:04:58 -0500 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Reply to: Holidays Message-ID: <199611241904.OAA14206-+AT+-nemesis.idirect.com> At 06:05 PM 11/24/96 GMT, you wrote: > > Lorraine, the Almost-Goddess of Domesticity/Laundry, said: > >>--It's been a while since I've read the Valdemar books--but I don't really recall >>any holidays mentioned---other than Sowan, for remembrance, soooooo--do >>they or don't they have holidays ? And, if they do---what were they? > >Well, Midsummer's day was a holiday (also Talia's bday) >On Midsummer's Eve couples would go out in the wood to spend the night, >with the reasoning that they'd wake up early already there and so get the best >flowers ( yeah right) Midsummer's Eve was for lover's, but Midsummer's day >was for families, and every female was given either a bouquet of flowers or >a basket of fresh fruit/food If I remember correctly that wasn't a holiday for religious people. It was only that way for the kids or the younger people. > >Sovvan seemed to me to be a cross between thanksgiving/halloween/ and >the Japanese holiday specifically dedicated to remembering the >dead (the one with the boats made of rice paper. help? does anyone know >what I'm referring to?) Thanksgiving/Halloween -> both seem like celebration >of harvest-end (giving away/sharing good food) although Halloween does >have the All Hallow's Night worked into it (the night the spirits walk in our world) I thought the same thing but they gave no real indication of which the actual holiday was. >Is that why people dressed up? So that if they had to go out, the spirits would >not take them for people, but for other spirits, and leave them alone? > >Since it's pre-industrial, I assume they still celebrate Midwinter -- Talia and >Judus are coming to mind -- they do, then. I wouldn't be surprised if they >had Beltaine or some other form of 'spring has started, let's have the >fertility-insuring' holiday They have mindwinter since that is when Talia met Jadus. I don't think I remember hearing about them having Christmas or something like that. > >Did I get all the major ones? Fellow Celt enthusiates? > >Firemist > > > I think you did get all the main ones that I have heard. Not many other holidays that they have. Aistes ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 11:48:01 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Monty Python (pure fluff) Message-ID: Sorry for the one-liner, I'll keep it short, but seeing as there is lots of Python fans here, Monty Python and the Holy Grail is on now!!! It's on Comedy Central 11:00 California time. Okaym bye!! Becky (who has just offered everyone hand dipped chocolate covered sheep.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 13:53:59 CST From: "Hth." To: Subject: Tremane & Stef Message-ID: <24NOV96.15011987.0186.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> You ain't paranoid if they really are out to get you. 'Nuff said. Be proud; I'm responding in a very laid-back manner to the thread about Stef and karma, instead of going with my first instinct and flipping out. Residual energy from the last big Tylendel discussion, which, boy, messed me up, lemme tell you. Very few list discussions have me storming around my house, yelling fit to wake the neighbors and scare the hamster But I'm valiantly remembering that was then, this is now, and replying to what was actually said! I don't think not being Chosen was a punishment for Stef, for several reasons. First off, I just plain don't think of not being a Herald as *punishment.* Maybe it would be nice to be one, but it can be pretty damn nice not to be one, too. Second, I think Stef's "cosmic purpose" was to be a bard and do all that bardic work Vanyel put him up to, which may well have saved the Valdemaran government from a crisis situation. He couldn't do that if he a) wasn't an official, trained Bard and b) was off riding the border, fit to be picked off at any moment by Karsites. Nor do I really think Stef was "punished" at all in his life for Tylendel's mistakes. Partially it's just personal; I believe that death should wipe your slate clean, and a new life is a new life, sans baggage. Whether that's the case or not, in Misty's world or this one, I dunno. But my other reasons are supportable. I think Tylendel was forgiven by the powers that be; I think if he hadn't been, the repudiation would have stood. Instead, Gala was in a sense overruled, and the death-bell rung for 'Lendel as it would have for a Herald. He was even buried in full whites, IIRC, with none of the almighty-wise Companions raising the slightest murmur of objection. In short, he was accorded all the honors of a Herald, which I can't imagine he would have been, had he "really" been repudiated. Then there was the dream in which he spoke to Vanyel. I thought that 'Lendel seemed very positive and hopeful there. His attitude was not so much that he was being shown the error of his ways and reaping what he had sown; it was much more that he was being gifted with a chance to do a better job with his life this time 'round. There were also a few places (once in LHM and once in Winds, I b'lieve) where someone said that Gala maybe screwed up, too -- further evidence, I think, that her repudiation was a hasty, poorly-thought-out action resulting from shock and emotion, and not the "serious" kind of repudiation that would really strip all honor and titles from a renegade Herald. Oh, can I second Cennydd's very nice explanation of why one really shouldn't take another listmember's name in vain? The same kind of thing floats about me from time to time, and it always makes me squirm a bit. I don't want to build up a reputation for bashing people around. You guys don't know how hard I work to stay reasonable around here. You should hear me on the phone with my she'enedra ("pretentious bastard! I'll kill him!" "she's out of her mind. how an otherwise sane person could be such an *idiot*...") When I sit down at the keyboard, I try really hard to stick with presenting my own ideas, instead of attacking other people for theirs. And then I feel like I've failed miserably when people start saying or whatever, like I'm the dragon under the bridge. Anyway, like Cennydd, I'm not really upset. I'd just be that much happier if it didn't happen anymore. HTH Wand-Sworn Champion to the Ladies of the Pink Wand Grand Dame of the Order of Amber and Marigold r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 15:01:25 -0500 From: "Cara S. Smith" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: bi Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961124200125.00695ed0-+AT+-ns.gamewood.net> Rainwood wrote: >Ken Hyde wrote: >> >> While you are working on it (and I think you should write it), you might >> want to read R.A.Rivkin's books > >This was regarding good lesbian characters. Well, I will surely check >these books out. One character I can think of off the top of my head >was Friday - in the book of the same name and I forget who wrote it. >She wasn't gay, but iirc, she was definitely bi. And she was this >really cool sortof secret agent - I loved this book! Was it Heinlein? >Does anyone know which book I am referring to? Remind me please! >> Yes, t'was Heinlein. And yes, Friday was bi. Alot of Heinlein characters in his later books were bi. He didn't scream out "This is a book about a bi-sexual", but the were definitely in there. I could list them all, but I'm kinda running late. In fact, Heinlein is where i've taken my philosphy from regarding bisexuality. You love who you love, and it doesn't matter what gender, or what people think. If you love (not talking exclusivly romantic love here) them, then how can it be wrong? Consenting adults of course. Oh great the wasps in my room are divebombing the keyboard again. (sorry, stream of consciousness typing) OBMisty: I was just re-reading the White Gryphon, and noticed that the picture of Winterhart looks quite alot like one of the pics of Nyara in Winds of Fate. T'was weird. Thank you both for listening! ;P ------------------------------------------------------------- Cara Smith nitebird-+AT+-ns.gamewood.net Relina, Queen of Teyle Riana, journeywoman Woodcrafter M'ril, rider of brown Liamith http://www.geocities.com/area51/5777 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 16:06:25 -0500 From: GraceInOne-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: bilines/"bi"te me!/belly buttons/books/-blinded/belief Message-ID: <961124160623_141549721-+AT+-emout20.mail.aol.com> Hi everyone I am new to the list and I would just like to say a few things. To start off I am a Mercedes Lackey fan to the fullest because I love the way she writes and the content of her stories. Now I understand that in her books she does include characters that are Shaych. I can't say that makes me happy but like I said I do love her style of writing. Now, what I am not understanding is why does it seem that a lot of people on this list seem to concentrate more on the fact that her characters are gay and not concentrate more on their character. This poses a problem for me. I would like to read more on the content of her stories and not on thier lifestyles. I am very sorry if I have offended anyone with my opinion but I just thought there might be others that feel the same way I do. Please accept any apologies for stepping on anyone's toes. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 13:17:16 -0800 (PST) From: Kat To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Bi stuff Message-ID: Jaquelle said: > Does Sherri count as a bi? isn't the quote something like.."Sherri, > who had many lovers, but never stayed with any.." Talia's thinking > it...I always read that to mean that she was having physical > relationships with men, until that point--which was when Keren needed > her, and she then realized that she was shaych. Did anyone else see > it this way? Hmmm.. I hadn't even remembered that. Very possibly, but we don't ever really see much there. But if she realized that she was shaych, that means (to me) that she isn't bi. Kat Priestess of Karma Knight of the Order of Amber and Marigold ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 15:52:34 CST From: "Hth." To: Subject: Claudia Christian (no Misty) Message-ID: <24NOV96.17146277.0018.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> Mm, can I get details on this CD thing? Does Claudia Christian sing? Is this Babylon-5 related, or just her own project? I'm not a B5 watcher, so if it's a series tie-in, I probably won't get as much out of it as I'm supposed to. However, I'm a Big Fan of Claudia's from her Twin Peaks days (Twin Peaks watchers were in on the ground floor of not only Claudia, but David Duchovny, too -- he played a DEA agent/transvestite in several episodes, and he rocked. Twin Peaks often featured the Patented Twin Peaks Leg Shots, where the camera would start at some woman's feet and pan slowly up, giving you a ten or fifteen second pause to guess whose legs they were -- "Audrey!" "Shelley!" "No, it's Norma!" -- and by God, I could never tell the Duchovny Leg Shots from the actual women's. The guy's got damn fine legs.) HTH Wand-Sworn Champion to the Ladies of the Pink Wand Grand Dame of the Order of Amber and Marigold r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 96 17:46:14 CST From: "Katherine M. Brielmaier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Stefen Message-ID: <74905.brie0030-+AT+-gold.tc.umn.edu> On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 20:13:33 GMT, Hth. wrote: >I don't think not being Chosen was a punishment for Stef, for several >reasons. First off, I just plain don't think of not being a Herald as >*punishment.* Maybe it would be nice to be one, but it can be pretty >damn nice not to be one, too. Second, I think Stef's "cosmic purpose" >was to be a bard and do all that bardic work Vanyel put him up to, which >may well have saved the Valdemaran government from a crisis situation. >He couldn't do that if he a) wasn't an official, trained Bard and b) was >off riding the border, fit to be picked off at any moment by Karsites. > >Nor do I really think Stef was "punished" at all in his life for >Tylendel's mistakes. Partially it's just personal; I believe that death >should wipe your slate clean, and a new life is a new life, sans >baggage. Whether that's the case or not, in Misty's world or this one, >I dunno. But my other reasons are supportable. I think Tylendel was >forgiven by the powers that be; I think if he hadn't been, the >repudiation would have stood. Instead, Gala was in a sense overruled, >and the death-bell rung for 'Lendel as it would have for a Herald. He >was even buried in full whites, IIRC, with none of the almighty-wise >Companions raising the slightest murmur of objection. In short, he was >accorded all the honors of a Herald, which I can't imagine he would have >been, had he "really" been repudiated. Oh, agreed, absolutely. I think 'Lendel was forgiven. But also (and this is a matter of personal belief, so I will most certainly agree to disagree, here) I do think he had a lot to take care of after his death. Loose ends, if you will. And it was a measure of the Gods' forgiveness that they allowed him the chance to make it up. Again, Life is not punishment. Hence he was reborn as Stefen, and allowed to make amends for what happened. And I don't think him not being Chosen was a punishment, either. He had something to do *as Stefen* and he had something to do *as Tylendel*, and they were at once the same thing, and different. (Deep Thoughts Ahead, Go Ahead and Skip if so Inclined) To maybe clarify where I'm coming from, here's some of my basic philosphy. I think everyone's got a purpose. It could be something as simple as saving a tree from being cut down, or cutting down that tree, or loving someone, or hating them. Or it could be composing a symphony, or dying in a war, or any one of the thousand things that we do every day. And not one of these things is any holier or better than any other one. The whole point is in the timing: maybe you'll accomplish whatever it was in one life, maybe it'll take you several. That doesn't matter either: Life is not just hanging around waiting until you get to Nirvana or Heaven or whatever. It's your chance to really *accomplish* something, so you'd better go out and do it. So the fact that Tylendel was reborn as Stefen doesn't mean that he was being smacked about by the Gods to make up for what happened. But as I said earlier, he did have something to do. And he wasn't able to do it in his last life, so he got another one so he could finish it. And at the same time, he tied up some of those loose ends with Vanyel and cleaned up his karma a little. He wasn't Chosen. Well, lots of people aren't Chosen, and it doesn't seem to hurt them very much. He simply *didn't have the right skills to be Chosen this time around* and that's OK. He had other Gifts, other skills, and he used them well and did what he was supposed to do. 's e do bheatha, Kaatje There I am in younger days, star gazing, Painting picture perfect maps of how my life and love would be Not counting the unmarked paths of misdirection My compass, faith in love's perfection I missed ten million miles of road I should have seen --Indigo Girls ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 17:34:31 -0500 From: Soljan-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Jake leaving... Message-ID: <961124173430_354005882-+AT+-emout13.mail.aol.com> Oh dear. Sigh. I really don't know what to say about this, but I'm going to try. I know there are going to be a ton of posts on this, so I'll try to keep it short. I am very sorry that Jake felt like he had to leave. However, he has said numerous times that people should stop the stuff with his character, who I will not name. For any of you newbies out there, write me and I'll tell you the tale. I don't want to tell it here. As for Kory, I am very sad to see you leave as well. I hope you come back soon. I know you probably didn't mean to make Jake leave. No, let me rephrase that. You didn't want Jake to leave. But it happened. And you already stepped in to fix that, I could see from your sig. I have been on this list since March, and it seems like it has been an eternity. I've seen people come, and people go. And many have stayed. For those of you who have stayed, let me ask you this. It seems that something like this happens every few months. Tensions build up and things happen. The only other thing I can think of right now is the infamous religion topic that created many many hurt feelings. It seems that every few months the list has a major argument, and people get hurt. Perhaps it was the aftermath of the not-as-bad Van dying topic that lead up to this. I don't know. I sincerely hope that those involved can put aside the problems, and that Kory and Jake come back. And I wish that this would never happen again, but I don't think that's very realistic. A very shocked and saddened Lady Silvermoon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 19:50:32 -0500 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: Newbies/Sexual Orientation/Sheep Message-ID: <199611241950_MC1-C5B-3AF6-+AT+-compuserve.com> GracelnOne said: > Now I understand that in her books she does include characters that are >Shaych. I can't say that makes me happy but like I said I do love her style of >writing. Why does that make you not very happy? (polite inquiry, not flaming!) > Now, what I am not understanding is why does it seem that a lot of people on >this list seem to concentrate more on the fact that her characters are gay and >not concentrate more on their character. This poses a problem for me. Honey, that's because a lot of people on this list ARE shaych. I think the topic /thread you are referring to is the 'bi' one -> Most of us were trying to figure out why bi characters are so rare - is it because no one knows how to classify them? Explain how they feel re: relationships and sex? etc. Yes, there has been discussion on this list about what impact a character's sexual orientation has had on character development/ plot development. It's just that it's been done before, and sometimes the 'oldies' on the list (and I'm one of them, so put down the flame-throwers guys) get bent out of shape when they've seen the same thread for the 4th time. Examples include the famous 'Is Elspeth a bitch or not?', 'Is Sayvil really Savil?', and 'Was Talia daydreaming herself into the storyline with Vanyel, or did the chroniclers just Get It Wrong?' Some of these have been included in a FAQ, but our FAQ Administrator Jake has just left us (POUT!!! JAKE COME BACK!!! WE LOVE YOU!!!!) > I would like to read more on the content of her stories and not on thier >lifestyles. I am very sorry if I have offended anyone with my opinion but I >just thought there might be others that feel the same way I do. Please >accept any apologies for stepping on anyone's toes. Just a few quickie things for all newies: If you worry about offending anyone with your opinion, salt your post liberally with IMO, IMHO, or IMNSHO which mean In My Opinion, In My Honest (or Humble) Opinion, and In My Not So Humble Opinion. Offer Chocolate covered Sheep to the list at large, and you can't go far wrong. If you absolutely are ticked off about what someone wrote, email them privately to straighten it out. If they can't justify/validate what they said, and do it again, then you can flame (baby flames first) We are generally a caring bunch, but some of us are a bit tense now and might type first, ask questions later None of us intentionally TRY to offend someone else, so be gentle... (that goes for the rest of us as well!!!) And yes, we do discuss story content, but mostly we wait until new books have come out. New book discusions are usually headed with SPOILER and lots of space so that people don't have to read them if they don't want to. Storm Breaking has generated a lot of debate, but Firebird hasn't been available at large yet (I still haven't got mine, and I can afford HB books, too) Probably discussion of it will start after Xmas (assuming some of us get it) Oh, and a word of warning... If Mishi POUNCES on you, just relax and enjoy it... Firemist, Goddess of Made from Scratch Foods ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 21:25:44 -0500 (EST) From: Mat the Cat in Green <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Gay charactes and discussion thereof Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.961124211802.16741C-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu> On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 GraceInOne-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > To start off I am a Mercedes Lackey fan to the fullest because I love the > way she writes and the content of her stories. Now I understand that in her > books she does include characters that are Shaych. I can't say that makes > me happy but like I said I do love her style of writing. Now, what I am not > understanding is why does it seem that a lot of people on this list seem to > concentrate more on the fact that her characters are gay and not concentrate > more on their character. This poses a problem for me. I would like to read > more on the content of her stories and not on thier lifestyles. I am very > sorry if I have offended anyone with my opinion but I just thought there > might be others that feel the same way I do. Please accept any apologies for > stepping on anyone's toes. You're new here, so you don't realize something. There are several of us here, myself included, who are gay. You say that you want to focus on the characters, not on their being gay. In case you missed it, this *is* an important part of some of Misty's characters, especially Vanyel. We do not exclusively focus on Misty's characters' sexuality. You have just come in on a discussion about the lack of bi characters. In fact, that I remember (and I'm one of people who has been here the longest), this is the first long discussion that we've had on the matter. Heather, I just know that you'll respond to this, so I'll say, "What she said." (and no, I'm not invoking your name really. I just have a feeling that you feel at least similarly to what I do about this, and you're a hell of a lot more eloquent than I am.) Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"Don't go down the cargo bay Adept, God of Procrastination | when there's no ship in dock. Heathen #???, and OoUL/L of tLotPW | You just might hear marracas clack mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | and get a nasty shock." http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ | Carmen Miranda's Ghost - Leslie Fish ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jan 1996 12:14:58 -0300 From: Eleonora <infodyn-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy> To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk> Subject: Poetry (off-topic but possibly relevant) Message-ID: <30E94BF2.5A17-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy> Hello everybody The following is from Khalil Gibran's The Prophet and I thought it might be appropriate for all of us at the present time. Please understand that I only want to share a poem and a poet I enjoy so very much - after all Jane Austen is not the only writer I deeply admire :) I am definitely not stepping on a soap box BTW, are there any other Gibran lovers out there? 'And a youth said, Speak to us of Frienship: And he answered saying: Your friend is your needs answered. He is your field which you sow with love and reap with thanksgiving. And he is your board and your fireside. For you come to him with your hunger, and you seek him for peace. When your friend speaks his mind you fear not the 'nay' in your own mind, nor do you withhold the 'ay'. And when he is silent your heart ceases not to listen to his heart; For without words, in friendship, all thoughts, all desires, all expectations are born and shared, with joy that is unacclaimed. When you part from your friend, you grieve not; For that which you love most in him may be clearer in his absence, as the mountain to the climber is clearer from the plain. And let there be no purpose in friendship save the deepening of the spirit. For love that seeks aught but the disclosure of its own mistery is not love but a net cast forth; and only the unprofittable is caught. And let your best be for your friend. If he must know the ebb of your tide, let him know its flood also. For what is your friend that you should seek him with hours to kill? Seek him always with hours to live. For it is his to fill your need, but not your emptiness. And in the sweetness of friendship let there be laughter, and sharing of pleasures. For in the dew of little things the heart finds its morning and is refreshed. ObMisty: Kris and Talia exchange friendship rings. Is there any other token of friendship in Velgarth? I cannot think of any, but then I am in dire need of Firemist's memory leash. Could I borrow it do you think, Firemist, please????? Love, Ele Priestess of Karma LotPW Dame of the OAM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 14:37:42 +1030 From: "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" <Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Friendship/list siblings/virtual friendship rings Message-ID: <9611250407.AA76888-+AT+-bilbo.cc.flinders.edu.au> To all my list siblings, <looking out deep in thought over beautiful gum trees and listening to magpies warbling :-))> Dear hearts, I chose to be a member of this list because I really am a Mistyphile and also because I heard that it was not homo-phobic and was quite good fun. My opinion has not changed - yes, there has been tension on the list and yes, some members of the list put their opinions too (IMESHO) strongly apparently without realisation of how they may be taken. Hindsight is sooo wonderful - then we can reflect on what we said, did or didn't say and try to enhance or make amends. Sometimes we even have to take a break to do that reflection. Thus it is in this group.You are my only "non-professional" list - you also the most prolific! That says something for nurse education, addictions and webmomen! (grin) In many ways, many of you have become part of my virtual idealised family - and for that I thank you. That is why I call you siblings after all. I am the youngest (by 10 minutes) in my family - so discussion of Misty and other subjects by so many diverse age groups has been great.(gulp! I turn 45 on Sat) Your "fluff" over deities, sheep etc have often caused me to laugh out loud - much to the consternation of my students and colleagues. At times I want to hurl the computer at the wall, when it appears my list sibs are hearing each other without listening (or is that the other way around?) But I kept on getting the 70 messages a day because ALL of you are important to me! Jake, I want you back, you too Kory! Yes, there will be times when we differ, get angry and hurt. That is all part of the deal of friendship and getting to know people - remember, mates, when you were thrilled with Woodlark getting her solo, when you helped Jake when he had a manuscript rejected and was blocked and so many other times when you all have been so supportive of each other. Cherish these experiences, let them nurture you and learn from them all. May your days be filled with happiness and your nights with love! (or vice versa or in any combination you desire <gryn>) Regards Ailsa Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda Head: Department of Nursing Practice School of Nursing, Flinders University of South Australia Email:Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au " Nurse, Renunciate, Dragon Friend & Herald-Healer" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 96 23:59:46 EST From: grendel-+AT+-novalink.com (Chris J. Beveridge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Poetry (off-topic but possibly relevant) Message-ID: <gt9g24400009-+AT+-novalink.com> Bright the day, I have only recently joined this list, but I had to respond to this..My heart jumped at the mention of Khalil Gibran... For I know that name well from a favorite book ... The book is entitled "The Guide for the advanced soul" and is a wonderful collection of thoughts, qoutes and beliefs..Of all of the people qouted in it, the words of Khalil Gibran are the ones that touch me most deeply. My favorite is: When love beckons to you, follow him Though his ways are hard and steep. And when his wings enfold you, Yeild to him, Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you. And when he speaks to you believe in him, Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden. I would be very interested in learning where I can obtain more of his work. Wind to thy wings, Myste Cloud -------------------------------------------------* grendel-+AT+-novalink.com * As he laye unravelling in the agonie of death, the Standers-by could hear him say softly, I have seen the glories of the world. -john aubrey the minutes of lives ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 96 01:20:19 -0500 From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: LoA/French/Star Trek/sexuality/family/Gibran Message-ID: <199611250630.BAA16547-+AT+-sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> first off, a note from Herald Shadra. She sends her regrets to the list at large, but when she was faced with a choice between "wading through 200 messages" and finishing putting out the next edition of the Collegium News for us RCMH, she decided to unsubsribe for a little while. She said, "Finally, could you pass along my regrets to our Goddess, Lady Sophia? It seems so rude of me to take off after my Acolyte appointment! Tell her I cherish the harp strings and magical woodwind instrument and will be putting them to good use. I'll be back in active service soon." deniz wrote: >Cennyd wrote: >>On Sun, 24 Nov 1996, Kory wrote: >>> Kenneth? How do you say "I'm bored" in French, and what's the adjective >>> used for "cute"? >> >>Well, probably the best way of saying it would be "je m'ennuye" or "c'est >>ennuyeux." At least, that would be how in Standard French. I just found >>out that in Quebecois, "tu m'ennuyes" means "I miss you." In Standard, it >>looks like "you are boring me." Hurt itty-bitties and misunderstandings >>*all over* the room! =) > >Hmm. I didn't know that. I'll ask my friends for some more Quebecois >patter. Actually, Cenn, the phrase you're looking for is "je m'ennuye de toi." In standard French, that means "I bore myself of you" or "I am getting bored of you." In Quebecois, it means "I miss you." So, Cennyd, close but no banana for your sundae. Also, in Quebecois, you can say "Il/Elle est cute." Isn't living in Canada wonderful? Jacquelle said [about STAR TREK: First Contact]: >Guys, I just saw it, and if you like Trek, this is the best by far >that I have seen in a long time. Data rocks, and Patrick Stewart is >at his VERY BEST. He doesn't get any better than this. And Troi >gets ....welll, go see it, I won't spoil it for you. Ditto. Wasn't Troi an absolute riot? Go see it, everyone. deniz is nudging me to get off the keyboard. I, as High Priestess of Procrastination, do recommend (to the verge of command) you to go see STFC, and do endorse it as an excellent manner of taking your minds off the heavy approaching monster of <gasp> Finals! That is all. ok, everybody, i'm back now. Really i am. deniz said she would shut up for a while, and i'll see to it (woodlark decides to check for her FOX 40 whistle. they don't get any better than that) Firemist said: >>>GracelnOne <I think> said: > Now I understand that in her books she does include characters that are >Shaych. I can't say that makes me happy but like I said I do love her style >of writing. Why does that make you not very happy? (polite inquiry, not flaming!)<<< i, too, am curious as to why it doesn't make you happy that Misty includes "characters that are Shaych." Please remember that the majority of her characters are straight (like in real life). Maybe you've never known any queer people before or don't feel like they are like how Misty portrays them? i'd like to say right now that deniz and i are both bisexuals and we didn't choose to be this way, we discovered it, and Misty helped us do that. (Damn *straight* <sheeps from Winter>) (Ahem. You said you weren't going to write for a while, and you already preached once since then.) As i was saying, don't let this intimidate you or take this as an attack. Instead, feel free to watch us and see if we seem like people you wouldn't be happy knowing. If not, that's your opinion. We won't mind too much. We'd like to believe that we're liked (or at least tolerated with knowing smiles) by the list (if not, we would have gotten some kind of horendous private flame assuming all sorts of nasty things that we did privately where the sun is ashamed to shine and so on). We're confident in the knowledge that we have some friends (both on the list and in RL) who know about our sexuality and don't judge us by it, and are still proud to call us friend. Also, before our egos puff up and we start talking in the Royal We, we'd also like to say that we like everyone on the list who has talked so far. We are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Just so the list knows, i have also e-mailed you, and am waiting for a response before i sic deniz on you. She might stick her foot in her mouth often (hey! I heard that...), but she can usually get her point across. (See, deniz? It wasn't that bad.) Ailsa said: >>>In many ways, many of you have become part of my virtual idealised family - and for that I thank you. That is why I call you siblings after all.<<< Aaaamen, sistah! Hey, i know. Why don't we make "We are Family" the List theme song? (get up everybody and sing...) >>>Yes, there will be times when we differ, get angry and hurt. That is all part of the deal of friendship and getting to know people - remember, mates, when you were thrilled with Woodlark getting her solo...<<< Once again, i'd like to thank You, the Collective Autonomy Known as The List (geez, sounds kind of like The Artist Once Known as Prince, or The Knights Who Until so Recently Said Neeh! HHHHHmmmmm..... tCAKaTL? naaah... i don't think it'll stick) for all your support regarding my solo. Speaking of which, it's coming up this Friday, the 29th of November. i have rehearsals for every night until then, get the weekend off, and then have daily rehearsals again for my other choir's concert on Friday the 6th of December. You know what? i think it's actually going to work. i was working on it with my voice teacher, and she helped me out a little, too, so it's really starting to sound like a Golden Little Treble. Thanks to Sophia and all her Clergy for your Gifts. i hope to use them wisely and subsequently return to Dramatic Sopranodom. Now, do you think you could help my voice mature a little faster? Saaaay... a few years faster? :) Ele wondered: >>>BTW, are there any other Gibran lovers out there?<<< Yes! i do, i do. <brandishing my very own copy of _The Prophet_> <smack> (oops... hehe... sorry, deniz... i didn't see you there... really, i didn't...) <innocent smile, sheep, roll, roll again, and pop up writing again> Thank you for the quote, Ele. I think we needed that. love, free bard woodlark, Acolyte in |"Are you questioning my Music and Song, Knight of Amber|counseling techniques?" and Marigold, and party to | -- Deanna Troi deniz's thoughts and computer. | Star Trek: First Contact dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 981 *********************************