MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 983

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) ADMIN: ahhh!
	by Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
  2) haiku/short stories/Idra/
	by DawnRain <dawnrain-+AT+-geocities.com>
  3) Re: Shaych folk speak up!
	by bf17346-+AT+-binghamton.edu
  4) Reply to: Holidays
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
  5) Braid: reading order & casting
	by Meredith Hines <mhines-+AT+-macromedia.com>
  6) Braid:Skippy/First Contact/Sovvan/Claudia Christian/Much Ado About
	by myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
  7) Re: Jake leaving...
	by Soljan-+AT+-aol.com
  8) Reply to: Leaving
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
  9) Reply to: covers
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
 10) Re: Reply to: Leaving
	by Eleonora <infodyn-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy>
 11) Fantasy Movies/Leaving
	by Hades16-+AT+-aol.com
 12) Re: Braid: reading order & casting
	by tygriss-+AT+-juno.com (Sara A Youngblood)
 13) leaving the list
	by chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg
 14) Re: Jake leaving...Sorry, kinda long
	by ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com
 15) Misty List membership
	by "Adrianne" <ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au>
 16) Re: Reply to: Leaving
	by Shannon <srae-+AT+-ix.netcom.com>
 17) Re: Jake leaving...
	by Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:40:29 GMT
From: Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
To: mercedes-lackey
Subject: ADMIN: ahhh!
Message-ID: <199611251840.SAA10269-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>

I've just finished my day of catching up with email and post from the weekend,
and I thought I'd skim the latest digest (haven't had time to read the others
from Thursday night onwards).

Okay, some people think there's a problem with the way the list works. Fine.
You're more than entitled to an opinion -- everyone else has one...

I'm going to sit down later this week -- it will be later, don't expect this
to be tomorrow -- and write up a bit what I feel about the list, the way it
has gone, the way it is going, and generally pontificate a bit. You can all
get a bit more of an idea about what I think of the matter.

Now, if you don't like the way I think, you have several options. You can
discuss (note that I said 'discuss', not 'argue') it with me, possibly
presenting suggestions for solutions; you can simmer in silence; you can leave
and start a list which is more to your tastes.

One thing that I guarantee won't happen is this; I won't run a list that 
degenerates into flamewars, (excessive) fluff, or other forms of backbiting,
infighting and other rubbish. If there are those amongst you who think I don't
do a good enough job as listmistress (there are probably some; among 300-odd
people it's impossible to please everyone) then you, too, have the options 
listed above.

A discussion forum cannot, by its very nature, be all things to all people. 
This is why the MageWar list exists (which was a spinoff for people who wanted
to do something which didn't really fit on this list); this is why
alt.books.m-lackey exists; this is why we're on this mailing list instead of
discussing Misty's work in a dark corner of another list, BBS, newsgroup, take
your pick.

In case some bright soul reads this as an ultimatum, rest assured that it
is not. By and large, I've enjoyed the two and a half years, or thereabouts,
that I've been this list's Listmistress. I'm not planning on giving up just
yetawhile.

*sigh* Comments, flames, whatever, to me off-list, thank you. Let's try
and keep things at least slightly on-topic.

Mel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 12:34:07 -0700
From: DawnRain <dawnrain-+AT+-geocities.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: haiku/short stories/Idra/
Message-ID: <3299F4AF.223B-+AT+-geocities.com>

Cennydd said:
> Well, of course, I love poetry.  However, the only kind I write with any
> regularity these days is haiku.  

So Ele asked:

> What is haiku, may I ask?

And I say:  it's a form of poetry, Japanese in origin.  Three lines, the
first line having 5 syllables, the second 7, and the third 5 again. 
Often written about things in nature.
I've written several myself...  along with a whole mess more.



deniz answered me:
> Yeah, there are MZB's Fantasy Magazine (or somesuch like that), and Misty has 
> a short story in each of the first two volumes (which are the only ones out so 
> far as I'm aware).

Cool...  I will have to go a-hunting them...



Lee sez...
> I just noticed this a little while ago on a rereading of SRising, so if
> I'm pointing out the obvious, sorry, but I find it interesting--it seems
> that Idra (from Oathbreakers) came back as a Companion!

<Star runs to find the book>
Ok, ok, I can't find it on a quick look-through, so I'll probably be
reading for it(I'm curious now!<grin> but if you can lend me some
textevd, I'd be grateful...



ObMisty:  I've been re-reading MPawn for the forty-seventh time(ok,
maybe I'm exagerating just a little...<smile>) and something occured to
me this morning.  We've discussed appearances of characters and how they
differ from the pictures and also things like thinking Kris's hair was
blond.  However:  what of characters' voices?  There's a bit in
MPawn(textevd upon request) when Van and 'Lendel are studying Van's
history and Savil thinks that it's odd that the younger(Van) has the
deeper voice of the pair.  That always strikes me 'cause I hear both of
them at around the same timbre, and I hear them as higher than that
makes it seem.  Anyone else note something like that?

MorningStar



-- 
Kris Bailey--Aka MorningStar, NightFire, DawnRain, and names too
darn numerous to include in this list.  E-mail-- morningstar-+AT+-poetic.com
dawnrain-+AT+-geocities.com bv165-+AT+-freenet.uchsc.edu kris.bailey-+AT+-sdoct.com
dawnrain00-+AT+-aol.com
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9763

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 15:22:49 -0500 (EST)
From: bf17346-+AT+-binghamton.edu
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Shaych folk speak up!
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.L3.93.961125151610.1769D-100000-+AT+-bingsun3>



>  Jaime wrote:
> > >>Now, I am not shaych, but I think there are some of us here that are, 
> > and I was wondering if you would be willing to share some of your 
> > experiences with me...not THAT kind....but like how did your family 
> > and friends react when you told them of your orientation, etc.<<
> > 
> > Then Wintershard wrote:
> > 
> > > If it's all right, I'd also like to be part of the discussion, also. I'm
> > > curious as to what any of you went/go through, since I've never had a RL
> > > shaych friend or acquiantence before.
> > 
> > If you don't mind, I'd like in on that too, never had a shaych friend or
> > aquaintance before either, and would be interested in hearing about it.
> >
> To be perectly honest, the responses I've gotten have been through 
> private email, so I wouldn't feel riight about bringing this out into the 
> open.  However, if those who have emailed me do not mind this 
> discussion to be public, then I don't mind it either.  But they will 
> have to say so to all of you before I go posting any conversations, 
> or any of my questions to them.  

As I said (but tacked into the bottom of the post, cause I forgot who I
was answering), I'm quite willing and planning to type somehting up
tonight.  I'll be polite about the off-topic-ness of it, but I'm happy to
talk, answer questions, and so on--not thatI'm "typical," necessarily, but
I can talk about my experiences.

--Winter Jackson.

Oops!  ObMisty, Since I'm on the way to my Acting Shakespeare class,
anyone know why/ notice the lack of theater of any sort (except the Bards)
in Velgarth?

--W.J.



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 15:24:47 -0500
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: Reply to: Holidays
Message-ID: <199611251525_MC1-C6E-94FF-+AT+-compuserve.com>

Aistes said:

>If I remember correctly that wasn't a holiday for religious people.  It was
>only that way for the kids or the younger people.

  Ah, but as someone else so eloquently said, most of Valdemar's holidays
would have to be seasonal/agri-based since that doesn't interfere with the
No One True Way creed.  Hmm... Maybe lunar and solar, too. 

  Also, i think holidays was not be used in the sense of Holy Days, but
vacation/ celebratory days

Firemist


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 15:27:25 -0600
From: Meredith Hines <mhines-+AT+-macromedia.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid: reading order & casting
Message-ID: <v03007800aebfa0de12e2-+AT+-[198.95.246.173]>

Greetings from the Great White South everyone!

	The first freeze and snow (through which no Texan can drive, it
seems) descended upon us this weekend.  Naturally, every freeway was backed
up with wrecks this morning.  I don't mind too terribly though, it's a
great reason to have a fire in the fireplace as soon as I get home (and all
through B5!)

Cara Smith said:
>Ok.. So I'm starting the Velgarth books again.  Just curious, do people
>re-read >in Velgarth chronological order?

	I actually just finished unintentionally re-reading ALL my
Velgarth.  I say unintentionally because I had only meant to re-read one.
I recently picked up SRising and wanted to re-read SWarning first to
refresh my memory.  Well, after that I decided to re-read BG and WG (I
don't have SG yet) to remember how all this mess began.  At that point I
was in dire need of a Tayledras fix, so I went through the Mage Winds tril.
Then, since I love being in that world, I went through Vows & Honor, By the
Sword, Arrows and LHM.

	I couldn't stand to leave completely, so I'm currently re-reading
Bardic Voices.  I haven't gone through the Bedlam or SERRAted Edge stuff
yet, simply because I (gasp) read other authors too.  McCaffrey, De Lint,
Roberson, Eddings, Niven, and (ducking REAL low and whispering) Anthony.
No coconuts please!  Even though I have shelves full, I feel that everyone
is entitled to the reading material of their choice.  If you don't like
some of what I read, (shrug) that's ok.  I'm sure I probably wouldn't enjoy
everything you read either, and that's what makes capitalism work.  I'll
make a deal with ya - don't talk me out of it, I won't talk you into it.
Now, lest I become Drifting Ashes...


On Mon, 25 Nov 1996 dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA wrote:

>Ooooo, what about Teri Hatcher as Hulda?

	While we're casting, here are some random impressions.

	How about Michael Praed - Robin of Sherwood - for Vanyel?
(http://plaza.interport.net/logomanc/ROS/index.html)  He's got the looks
for it, and can do noble and longsuffering rather well.

	For Falconsbane, I'm thinking of Alan Rickman.  He did a great job
in Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves.  He had that self-assured and attractive
(IMO) yet cruel persona.

	I have two ideas for Selenay.  She may be a little too young, but I
think Claudia Christian would be great.  However, Emma Thompson might be
perfect.

	Another who may be a bit young would be Claire Danes for Talia.
But, she does kindhearted and understanding well - I'm thinking of her in
Little Women.

	One last suggestion.  Brad Pitt for Firesong?


"Zhai'helleva, wingsibs..."

Meredith/Nightfire
mhines-+AT+-macromedia.com



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 16:44:38 +0000
From: myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid:Skippy/First Contact/Sovvan/Claudia Christian/Much Ado About
Message-ID: <199611252239.QAA09483-+AT+-cdale3.midwest.net>

Kory wrote:
>>>Well, Skippy's in...oh..gods..I forget. There's a Skippy, though. I think 
he was--no, wait..there's a Skiffy...that's Skif, as a companion (in 
Storm Spatulomancy[1])...Skippy...Skippy...well, there's Born to 
Ruttish...where Skippy separates from...Rob?...and becomes an ally of the 
Unseelie...<<<

No, Skippy is Spiffy's fifth cousin who makes a cameo appearance in Storm
Registering in that Tayledras orgy scene involving Firesong, a Kyree, Worf,
and one of those wicked aliens from ID4. Don't you remember *anything*? ;)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And Kory -- you did go out of line a bit, but *please* don't unsub. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On First Contact(slight spoiler -- skip if you want to; sorry about the
lack of spoiler space): This is a truly fantastic movie. Best acting ever
from everybody, and the plot was the best yet. Deanna Troi drinks three
shots of tequila and passes out, Zephram Cochrane loves rock music, Data
kills the Borg Queen (YES!!!!!)... Alfre Woodard is fabulous as the
headstrong Lily Sloane, who makes Capt. Picard realize it's suicide to
fight the Borg on his ship. He then initiates the self-destruct sequence
only to be stopped by Data who appears to have been assimilated. I nearly
began to cry when I thought Data was dead... but he wasn't, so I cried
then. I was so happy that he didn't die!!! I LOVE DATA!!!!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Firemist wrote:
>>>Sovvan seemed to me to be a cross between thanksgiving/halloween/ and
the Japanese <? i think?> holiday specifically dedicated to remembering the 
dead (the one with the boats made of rice paper. help? does anyone know
what I'm referring to?) Thanksgiving/Halloween -> both seem like celebration
of harvest-end (giving away/sharing good food) although Halloween does 
have the All Hallow's Night worked into it (the night the spirits walk in
our world)
Is that why people dressed up? So that if they had to go out, the spirits would
not take them for people, but for other spirits, and leave them alone?<<<

I think so, but I'm really an uncultured kid. I bet Cennydd would know more
about this than I do <chagrined smile>. Anyway, I can't remember what it's
called, but it's sort of a period of remembrance. Families go out to visit
the graves of their ancestors, and people out in the country pray for good
harvest by making little animals like cows from various vegetables. But I
don't know about the boats; I think there is one, though, where people
float paper lanterns on little boats. There's also another one (March 3)
for girls where traditionally, people made dolls and floated them out onto
the river once that day was over to ensure good marriage, fortune, and
fertility for the girls of the family. I can't really remember what it
was... Cennydd?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Claudia Christian: Wait a second. Mini-CD? She sings, or is it a CD for
the computer? I'm confuzzled.... I knew Trek cast people sang, but Bab5?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jacquelle sigged:
>>>"You broke your little ships."
Lily to Picard
Star Trek: First Contact<<<

I love that line, but... HE BROKE THE ENTERPRISE C! My friend and I were
nearly in tears because of that. And I do agree with ya -- it's the best
Trek movie to this date. It's even better than The Voyage Home! I LOVE
DATA!!!! If I get a cat, I'll name it either Data or Spiffy Q. Trelane.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Talia and Kris' friendship ring: Has anyone noticed that the friendship
ring was a "one time deal?" I haven't seen it anywhere except in Arrows,
and it really bugs me when authors do that. It almost sounds like an
afterthought or a P.S.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Deniz (or her alter ego) wrote:
>>>Ditto.  Wasn't Troi an absolute riot? <<<

3 shots of TEQUILA!!! Kerplunk! It was her best performance ever, because
in the run of TNG, she was almost soap opera-ish  <sheeps from soap opera
lovers>. I loved what the writers did with her character and how Marina
Sirtis carried it out. I've always wanted to see Troi on tequila. And Brent
Spiner's performance of Data was absolutely gripping and tear-jerking at
times. Yes, I cried for Data, esp. when I thought he was dead. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rachel wrote:
>>>For casting Amberdrake I see Adrian Paul.<<<

No! He's too macho-looking. How about that sweetheart who played the
resident android of Starfleet: Brent Spiner? He'd be perfect.... But I
really shouldn't get too deep into this. I've already rambled on about
supersexiestmanintheworldmostfabulousawesometotheextreme Brent Spiner once.
For Hulda: How about... RuPaul? <sheeps from coconuts> Or that chick who
was on L&C the other day? Y'know, the one who's on Drew Carey?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gosh... I'm done! I love Data/Brent/whathisface from the Outer Limits/Dr.
Okun, etc!!!

Love and twisted logic,
Summersong & Spiffy the Cat
***********************************
Akiko Hirao <myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net>
"Tough little ship." -- Riker
"Little?" -- Worf
"You do remember to fire phasers." -- Riker
>From Star Trek: First Contact
***********************************


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 17:42:57 -0500
From: Soljan-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Jake leaving...
Message-ID: <961125174255_1486024311-+AT+-emout17.mail.aol.com>

Danya said some things is response to my post.  I read it carefully,  and
agree on most of them.  Hmmm...

<< (1)  The list is _not_ friendly to newbies.  The list is dominated by a
 select few who have extremely forceful personalities and a "coded" means of
 communicating that they interpret as "joking" but which newbies have no
 means of interpreting in that manner.   >>
  I think that this may be a recent thing.  I'm not sure.  I know that there
are several people who post often.  I haven't really noticed the
forcefulness,  or the codes.  I don't know if you mean the jokes are directed
towards newbies or if they are there in general.  

>>(2)  The list practices censorship. <<
  Okay,  I agree on this point.  We have been a bit quick tempered about the
re-telling of subjects.  However,  if anyone ever writes a FAQ with those
questions in it,  this problem will be solved.  In the meantime,  please just
ignore the message.  I think she's right.  Many people have missed these
discussions.  I know a lot of you pay per-message also.  We can't please
everyone though.  Either ignore them or answer them.  

>>(3)  The list flames first (privately as well as publically) and asks
questions later. <<
  I mean this sincerely,  and not in any way sarcastic.  I'm sorry you feel
this way.  I have always seen this list as quite considerate,  and a lot
better than many other places.  I'm not sure what to do about this.  Except
what you already said.  Don't flame.  I myself got into an arugment through
private mail because of a quick temper.  We're all human.  If you flame
someone,  apologize.  No one should be hiding behind flame-protective
sheilds.  

>>but who have computer systems that
cannot braid get attacked for something over which they have no control.<<
  Okay,  I admit that we did get on your case about that one.  And I don't
know what to do about it.  I guess we'll just have to live with it.  

Hopefully I didn't just re-hash everything.  I do not mean this as a flame to
anyone.  I hope that the list can fix up these problems and become what it
once was.  When I was a newbie,  I never had to deal with these problems.
 Many of the over-discussed topics hadn't been that way when I joined.  So I
think that the list has changed a great deal.  I just realized that I was
here in Feb. too.  I've been here almost a year,  and I think that the list
has changed.  The first impressions of the list are not what they once were.
 
   I really hope that no one else leaves.  I can't believe that the entire
list could fall apart like this.  Just think about what you post,  and don't
post when you are angry.  Wait a while,  and if you are still angry,  type it
out,  but don't send it.  Wait a while longer.  If you still feel that way,
 at least add a mesage saying you are willing to work it out.  

Lady Silvermoon
LIG,  Leader of the DDMF,  Dame of the OAM,  Goddess of Sensitivity
"Different kinds,  with different ways.  It would take a lifetime to explain,
 no one's the same."  _Different People_  No Doubt


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:06:13 -0500
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: Reply to: Leaving
Message-ID: <199611251814_MC1-C62-4BF8-+AT+-compuserve.com>


agonized rant on

  WHY IS EVERYONE LEAVING?!?!? did we turn into monsters when I
wasn't looking??? Would someone clue Firemist in? I'm afraid I just don't
understand. . . . .

dons her own asbestos suit in case the above wail makes anyone feel
like Firemist has been ignoring their posts. Firemist's email server is very
eratic (they are cancelling it in January) and she may have missed a few
posts. Also, Firemist skipped the Van argument because  she had no
strong feelings about the turn out, so if that was part of the cause, then
please explain it gently.

KORY, JAKE, DANYA, WINDSONG, KIMEROONIE COME BACK!!!!!!

        Firemist has not been ignoring anyone's posts!!! 
                                 see above

Firemist shucks off her asbestos suit, thinking :we're all nice people. 
surely no one will flame:

agonized rant off

re threads everyone <read 'oldies> have seen before: can't we just
change our headers so that all (eg) Elspeth discussions have elspeth in the 
header? then people sick of the Elspeth discussion can skim/skip at will?

and then not braid together unrelated posts? and say when we see a thread
we don't want to be involved 'I'm not interested, so I'll be skipping them.'
oh wait, that sounds truly rude. Can anyone with TACT come up with a polite
way to say that? I don't have any. My parents gave me a mug with B*tch 
Goddess on it, that should clue you in on how tactless I am.

Firemist, truly bewildered.

ps, I remember when I joined in Feb that I saw a lot of asbestos, rings of Fire 
Resistance, etc going on, but I thought that was just a quirky way of saying
'this is what i think/my opinion, and I'm willing to hear your side even if it
wildly disagrees with mine'. I never thought I or anyone else was being
self-deprecating <sp?> Do you other newbies (have Danya's opinion--
want the rest!) truly feel that way?


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:13:55 -0500
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: Reply to: covers
Message-ID: <199611251818_MC1-C66-4298-+AT+-compuserve.com>


Deniz asked:
>ObMisty (just in case):  i liked/tolerated the early covers, but didn't like 
>the covers for the Winds, and *especially* the gryphons.  Like on BG, why
> does Skan have *jewellery*?????

You think maybe that is Jody's idea of the utility belts/pouches the
gryphons wear? And why wouldn't he wear jewellry? he is a 'vain bird' 
after all. . . <g>

Does anyone else love Patricia C Wrede's books? this may seem as a 
non-sequitor, but jewelry for gryphons went to 'gods that must take
a lot of metal' to 'really thin chains' to 'thin chain with moon disc' from
_Daughter of Witches_. (yes, Cen, I do remember that you like her stuff
too)

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 09:43:07 -0300
From: Eleonora <infodyn-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Reply to: Leaving
Message-ID: <30EA79DB.37B6-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy>

Rozanna McNeer wrote:
> 
> agonized rant on
> 
> ps, I remember when I joined in Feb that I saw a lot of asbestos, rings of Fire
> Resistance, etc going on, but I thought that was just a quirky way of saying
> 'this is what i think/my opinion, and I'm willing to hear your side even if it
> wildly disagrees with mine'. I never thought I or anyone else was being
> self-deprecating <sp?> Do you other newbies (have Danya's opinion--
> want the rest!) truly feel that way?


Well, I am obviously still a newbie (joined at the end of October), so I
guess I should give my own impressions. 

It is true in a way that oldies in the list have a certain way of saying
things and of understanding each other and of predicting each others'
behavior, but that is only natural. Any group of people who have been
'together' for some time will have their own slang, and their one
'codes' and jokes and expressions. I do not feel left out of things or
anything. Hey, you have even explained about the sheep thingy :)

I did not feel the list was 'hostile' to newbies when I joined, although
I admit I was a bit upset when my first post (after 2 weeks or so of
lurking) was replied by someone screaming for help and diving for cover
because the subject had been done to death some time ago (although
actually I was also including other aspects besides those already
discussed). But I emailed that person privately and he replied very
nicely and explained. Actually, the scene he described of running for
cover, screaming, and then donning asbestos armor in case Cennydd
decided to flame him for reacting that way, was quite humorous and
enjoyable, I just did not understand a thing. Thereafter other list
members pointed out that the aspect I had brought up was not in the FAQ,
and that the person in question had reacted too fast and I admit it did
make me feel much better (one is only human after all :)). However, even
considering that first experience, I never felt in a hostile
environment. Just that I had entered a 'foreign country' and therefore
had to learn the ground rules first. At about the same time Deniz posted
her newbie fest and it DID explain a lot of things such as the Drifting
Ashes, etc., etc. I believe it was Stormwind who sent me the abbrev list
and I also remember asking Mat and Cennydd some questions off-list and
getting very friendly replies and encouragement to participate.  

Whenever I have not understood something and asked I have received a
reply. (Well, OK, the explanation about the sheep was a bit slow in
coming -other people had asked and received only innocent grins in
reply- but it was also fun not knowing :))

Believe it or not, I feel responsible for Jake's leaving, since if I
hadn't jumped on Kory about the Jane Austen thing and offered him sheep
just in case I was wrong, he would not have mentioned the forbidden
word. (I know it was not my fault- Jake's leaving I mean - not
misunderstanding Kory which was certainly my fault and for which I have
already asked and received forgiveness. (BTW, I really AM curious: were
Nightshade and I the only ones who misunderstood him? Private comments
are welcome :))

I did feel however, that around the Vanyel debate things were getting
tense and it seemed more a matter of (as Mel said) having the last word,
rather than actually discussing the issue. 

All in all, I would like to conclude by saying that I have had lots of
fun, met very interesting people and felt that I belong.

Well, I guess that covers all I wanted to say.

Love,
Ele
Priestess of Karma
LotPW
Dame of the OAM



I DO hope those who

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 19:48:48 -0500
From: Hades16-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Fantasy Movies/Leaving
Message-ID: <961125194846_141939688-+AT+-emout17.mail.aol.com>

just wondering if any of you know any good (meaning with a semblence of a
plot and good acting) fantasy movies besides (and I dont mean all of these
are good) Legend, Willow, Dragonheart, The Hobbit (or was it Lord of the
Rings?), etc.

ps-how does one get off the Misty Mailing List?
(quit the applause)












                                                                        Hades
  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 20:52:15 EST
From: tygriss-+AT+-juno.com (Sara A Youngblood)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Braid: reading order & casting
Message-ID: <19961125.194904.4591.1.Tygriss-+AT+-juno.com>

On Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:53:41 GMT Meredith Hines 
>While we're casting, here are some random impressions.
>
>How about Michael Praed - Robin of Sherwood - for Vanyel?
>(http://plaza.interport.net/logomanc/ROS/index.html)  He's got the 
>looks
>for it, and can do noble and longsuffering rather well.
>
>	For Falconsbane, I'm thinking of Alan Rickman.  He did a great 
>job
>in Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves.  He had that self-assured and 
>attractive
>(IMO) yet cruel persona.

Okay, you voted Michael Praed.  I vote "Vachon" from Forever Knight.  I
can't remember his name just now but he has the same look but more sexy.

I agree with the choice of Alan Rickman for Falconsbane.  And he was
soooo funny in 'Thieves".  "And cancel Christmas! SLAM!!"  ROTFLMAF!
Ly,
Tygriss-+AT+-juno.com
Priestess of Large Hunter Cats
Lady of the Pink Wand
www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/3418

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 08:50:48 -0800
From: chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: leaving the list
Message-ID: <199611261650.IAA24464-+AT+-rgs.rgs.edu.sg>

        I have been on this list since June this year and I have really
enjoyed myself here. When I first joined the list, no one was hostile to me
what-so-ever and I adapted quite fast to the kind of "coded communication"
we had here. Maybe it was because I had friends on the list and if I didn't
understand anything, they would explain it to me. 

        There is one point I would like to bring up. I think that we should
not "flame" each newbie when they make a mistake and send chain letters and
virus warnings to the list. Some of them do not get the FAQ when they joined
and when they make a mistake, we pounce on them and flame them badly. I
don't think that is fair because they were not informed of the list of dos
and don'ts. They posted virus warnings because they cared about people on
the list and they didn't want people from the list to download viruses on
their computers. 

        I also don't see why we do not pounce on people who sent pages and
pages of fluff but instead we pounce on those who sent in many Misty-related
messages unbraided. I think to send in many unbraided Misty-related messages
are fine as long as the content is not fluff and the sender makes a point to
snip his/her quotes.

        As for the newbies, maybe we should have a system where each time a
newbie join the list, we make sure he/she gets a copy of the FAQ and the
abrev. list. We could also have a few people on the list who the newbies can
e-mail privately to clear their doubts about certain stuff on the list. That
may help to make this list "newbie-friendly".

        One last thing here. I feel that we all have our own rights to
choose which author we like and I don't see the reason why we should start
hiding or start pouncing on people who mentioned that they like Piers
Anthony. Some of us may dislike him but there will be others who will feel
that his books are better that Misty's (that is true, one of my friends gave
up reading Misty because she felt that Piers Anthony was better). 

        That's all I have to say and I will be leaving the list on Thursday
(not because I am mad with all of you, but because I am going abroad for a
week), so take your time to cool down, and I hope everything will be okay
when I come back.

Stormwind

p/s: all list members who need the mailing list abrev. list, please e-mail
me at chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg before Thursday


*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&
Learning is a treasure which accompanies its owner everywhere. --Anonymous
	~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Visit my homepage at "http://members.tripod.com/~eladi/index.html" and sign
the guestbook
*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:01:47 -0500
From: ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Jake leaving...Sorry, kinda long
Message-ID: <961125210144_1553170561-+AT+-emout13.mail.aol.com>

After reading Danya's and Silvermoon's posts, I have some suggestions. I
don't totally aggree with everything said, but she does have some very good
points. So, about already discussed topics, I think the newbies should be
informed of them, right away, sort of a welcome-by-the-way thing. Advise them
what the topics are and that it's best not to bring them up, however, suggest
that they get together with other newbies, and anyone else interested in the
topic, to discuss it offlist. That way it would be a compromise, and most
people could be happy with it. As to the other stuff, I don't know what to do
either, other than taking Danya's and Silvermoon's suggestions. No flames,
take disputes offlist and try to resolve things politely. About people
leaving, I'm saddened too. I hope things get better so that those people feel
that they can come back. Like Ele, I feel guilty about Jake, since I too
jumped on Kory bout the Jane Austen thing. 

Re: Firemist's post

When I say things like <ducking behind sheep> etc., it's just humor, I rarely
actually expect flames. Notice I get flamed when I open my big mouth without
thinking. I never really felt I had to censor what I say, I just need to be
careful how I say it. In e-mail it's way too easy to come across as saying
something you didn't actually mean. 

For the most part I have felt very welcome as well (re:Ele), the only time I
have recieved negative responses was when I did not think before posting, and
inadvertently offended someone. I've made some mistakes, yes, but I admit
them and am learning from them. And (hopefully <g>) won't make the same ones
again. The recent mess up with Kory, well, I look on it as just being part of
getting to know people better. I misunderstood, but now I will be reading
much more carefully . . . I haven't really felt that the list was real
hostile to newbies, and I guess I still qualify, I joined the last week of
September. As to codes etc., well I asked questions about what I didn't
understand, and recieved some very friendly answers. Despite all the problems
of late, I really love this list, it's so open and understanding most of the
time, I get to communicate with other pagans (unfortunately don't know any in
RL), and a wide variety of other people, all ages, different walks of life,
get to talk to shaych people (don't know any in RL either), and just get to
know some pretty wonderful people. And all Misty Fans! Hey, you can't top
that <g>.


Blessed Be,

NightShade

OIB, LotPW, High Priestess Of All Things Nocturnal, & Knight Of The OAM

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 12:38:06 +0000
From: "Adrianne" <ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Misty List membership
Message-ID: <199611260237.CAA17076-+AT+-enterprise.powerup.com.au>


 Firemist, truly bewildered. wrote:
> 
> ps, I remember when I joined in Feb that I saw a lot of asbestos, rings of Fire 
> Resistance, etc going on, but I thought that was just a quirky way of saying
> 'this is what i think/my opinion, and I'm willing to hear your side even if it
> wildly disagrees with mine'. I never thought I or anyone else was being
> self-deprecating <sp?> Do you other newbies (have Danya's opinion--
> want the rest!) truly feel that way?
> 
>

I've been on the list now for about two months and I've never felt 
opposed, oppressed or any other opp. word you can come up with. I 
have never felt the need to don flame-protectives but then I haven't 
posted a lot either. I must confess that I missed a lot of the uproar 
of the last week because I wasn't reading my posts. I wasn't really worried 
about the Van thread and I was too busy to get into a lot of fluff so I've been
skipping most of the posts for a while. I thought about unsubbing but not because of 
any ill-feeling with the list. This is a fairly prolific list and 
I wondered if it was taking up too much of my time, so I decided to 
go into lurkerdom and skip most of the posts for a while. Well, the 
funny thing is, I've missed it! So I started reading again and 
discovered I'd missed some heavy-duty stuff. 

I can't comment on how others are feeling, only on my perspective. I 
really enjoy this list. I may get frustrated with some of the threads 
- either because I've heard them before (even in two months), or 
they're over my head, or I just don't care <G> - but I love getting 
to know the people on this list via the common thread of Misty books 
and the less common threads of off-topic stuff. (Please note: I said 
'common' not 'frequent'!!!  :-D) I like it when the subject line 
gives a clear guide to what's in the post, particularly in braided 
posts - I can skip threads I don't feel like following and find the threads 
I am interested in. And I'm not going to apologise for not reading 
every word everyone else writes.  I don't expect everyone to 
read all or even any parts of my posts. We are diverse people. Let's 
celebrate that diversity. We don't have to agree on everything - what 
a boring list it would be if we all agreed.

Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda said it much better than I can (I really 
appreciated your post, Ailsa - and happy birthday for Saturday!) You 
are all a part of my family now and I care what happens to you.

As High Priestess of the Goddess of Music and Song, I sing a song of 
healing to each and every one of you (but I think Ailsa's song sounded 
better!)

Lady Adrianne, High Priestess of the Goddess of Music and Song, First Bard
of all Bards, & Renunciate 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Laugh for me. Joy is in the ears that hear.'
Foamfollower, First Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, The Unbeliever
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ajfabbey-+AT+-powerup.com.au

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 22:59:16 -0800
From: Shannon <srae-+AT+-ix.netcom.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Reply to: Leaving
Message-ID: <329A9544.2F6-+AT+-ix.netcom.com>

Rozanna McNeer wrote:

> re threads everyone <read 'oldies> have seen before: can't we just
> change our headers so that all (eg) Elspeth discussions have elspeth in the
> header? then people sick of the Elspeth discussion can skim/skip at will?
> and then not braid together unrelated posts? and say when we see a thread
> we don't want to be involved 'I'm not interested, so I'll be skipping them.'
> oh wait, that sounds truly rude. Can anyone with TACT come up with a polite
> way to say that? I don't have any. My parents gave me a mug with B*tch
> Goddess on it, that should clue you in on how tactless I am.

I don't think you really need a polite way to say that everyone is not
interested in every post that shows up here.  It would make everyone's
life
much easier if they just ignored the messages they aren't interested in.
But the insistence on braiding makes that rather difficult.  

> ps, I remember when I joined in Feb that I saw a lot of asbestos, rings of Fire
> Resistance, etc going on, but I thought that was just a quirky way of saying
> 'this is what i think/my opinion, and I'm willing to hear your side even if it
> wildly disagrees with mine'. I never thought I or anyone else was being
> self-deprecating <sp?> Do you other newbies (have Danya's opinion--
> want the rest!) truly feel that way?

Well, since you asked...yes. I agree with just about all of Danya's post
about what the problems are here, even though I haven't been the target 
of any flames myself.  I'm *very* new, about 2 weeks or so, and
I have been reluctant to post.  God forbid I should bring up a topic
that's already been discussed. Someone suggested finding other newbies
to
discuss those topics with offlist.  Well, what's the point of being *on* 
the list if we have to do that? 

I don't feel like I should have to bury my posts in IMO's and such 
to avoid getting flamed, either.  I mean,
my opinions are my opinions.  I don't expect everyone to agree with
them, that's why they're opinions.  I'll use the Vanyel topic as an
example, since that's the only one I've been part of.  I don't feel
like it was discussed as much as it could have been, partly because
everyone got so upset when their opinions were disagreed with, and
partly because after a couple of days, some started moaning and
groaning about how no one was ever going to agree, so just shut up
already.  Ok, not those exact words, but that seemed to me to be the
general idea.  My problem with this was, why does anyone have to
agree?  As far as I was concerned, it was making me think about the
books
in ways I hadn't before, and I think that's a good thing.  One 
side of the debate doesn't have to agree with the other.  Someone,
I can't remember who (sorry), said in response to Danya's post, that
if someone came along in a week and started the whole Vanyel thread
over again, we'd groan and be glad if someone told them to forget it,
it's been done.  I might groan, just in anticipation of the carnage
that would be sure to follow, as it did last time.  But, I would not
be glad to see anyone tell them to drop the subject.  That would be
unfair to the new person, who might be like me, someone who's never
had another person with which to discuss these books.  I came here
eager to have intelligent discussions about the books with others, and
the first time I tried, I was made to feel, intentionally or not, that
the topic was getting tired and I was annoying everyone.  

As for the "coded" stuff, well, I can see that.  Half the time, I 
don't know what anyone is talking about.  I've been on the verge of
unsubscribing, myself, just because I don't feel comfortable either
introducing a topic or contributing to a thread already in progress. 

This might sound particularly pathetic, but one of the reasons that
Misty's books mean so very much to me is that the main characters are
always misfits in some way, who come to find a place where they belong.
It's decidedly unpleasant to join a list for that author in which
it's so hard to feel welcome.  

Shannon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 19:28:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Jake leaving...
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.961125183919.24867A-100000-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>

On Mon, 25 Nov 1996, Linda Malcor, Ph.D wrote:

> (1)  The list is _not_ friendly to newbies. 

	I would really have to disagree there. I think this may be a 
recent trend, and I don't know the reason why. I tend to agree with Jake, 
this list has changed. I joined a year ago, and when I joined, I felt 
instantly welcomed and loved. I didn't understand everything, of course, 
but that was to be expected. If you walk up to a group of friends who 
have known each other for a long time, you can't expect to know 
everything they talk about, but you ask, and you find out. Then after 
you've known them for a while, someone else will walk up, and they won't 
know everything you know. It just takes about a month to get the hang of 
things. But we are friendly to newbies. 

> (3)  The list flames first (privately as well as publically) and asks
> questions later.

	I will agree with you here, lately there has been a lot of 
flaming, but again, this seems to be a recent thing. If everyone would 
just discuss things, we wouldn't have this problem. And lately, it seems 
as if you say something like constructive criticism, many people get all 
defensive and upset. 

> (5)  The list has a double-standard for longtime members and newbies. 

	I would really have to disagree with you there, I don't believe 
there is a double standard. The braiding thing has been put to rest, we 
understand you can't do it, it's okay, I generally can't either. If I 
recall correctly, that wasn't something where all the oldies ganged up on 
you, you are generalizing there, only a few people did, and they also 
apologized, maybe they shouldn't have gotten on your case, but see above. 
> 
> 
> and anything that comes up that's on topic gets shot down with "Read the
> FAQs" or intentional and/or unintentaional flames. 
	
	No.Now you know that's not true, and you are exagerrating there. 
Everything is not shot down, we had that nice Van discussion, but when it 
stopped being a discussion, and a repeating circle, it seemed pointless, 
and was politely asked to come to a conclusion. I haven't been keeping up 
very well, but I'm sure that I can find many examples of conversations 
that have not been shot down. At least as many as ones that have been 
objected to. If we're going to talk things out, let's try to avoid making 
generalizations.

> (1)  Try to avoid the use of irony and sarcasm as forms of humor when
> writing to the list. 
	I don't agree with this, I like humor. Maybe we ought to just 
make it little less subtle, such as a nifty new acronym *IBSH* I'm being 
sarcastic here. But to outlaw certain types of humour seems like a mistake.

> (5)  The list needs to make up its collective mind about why it exists. 

	I believe that it would be close to impossible to have a list 
without any fluff. There just isn't enough Misty to talk about, 
especially when there isn't anything new. The fluff level is generally 
kept down, but at the moment, there is nothing new to talk about, so it 
naturally rises. I believe that Mel kindly asks us to skip the fluff when 
it gets bad, or we move it to another list (magewar) Many peolpe do enjoy 
the fluff part, it is what helps us to really get to know each other as 
people. I enjoy it, and I think many other people do as well, to a point.
It can get out of hand though.

Just out of curiosity, who here does pay for mail by the byte?

> But things are definitely falling apart here,
	Again, I disagree, it's not falling apart, we've just had some 
problems. Nothing and nobody is perfect, and when we have such a diverse 
grouping of people, there are bound to be problems. As the list grows 
larger, we will get more different people, and more problems. Just 
because everything isn't perfect doesn't mean things are falling apart, 
let's try to keep things on the optimistic and positive side.

	
	Who I really feel bad for is the people who have just joined in 
the last week or two, to those of you, I apologize for the atmosphere, 
it's not normally like this, just stick with it a while, and things will 
be back to normal. We really are a nice bunch of people. Really, we are.


*--------------------Lady Becky of the Hills--------------------*
|Goddess of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereals                      |
|Handmaiden of Procrastination                                  |
|Lady in Green                                                  |
|Founder of the AftPoSWT (confused? Just ask.)                  |
|Mailing List Homepage http://www.psnw.com/~deb/becky/misty.html|
|beckyanne-+AT+-iforge.com                                           |
*---------------------------------------------------------------*


------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 983
*********************************