MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 986 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) tea party, gleemen by GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu 2) Isn't this a Group of ML Fans? (My Take) by "Ramona Winkelbauer [SERA]" 3) Hating Braids by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 4) Flaming and Fluff (WAS: Flaming etc.) by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 5) Lurking by Renee Mic Markowicz 6) a 1 liner change by belrex 7) Re: Starting over anf fluff by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu (Nina Ehgartner) 8) Re: Eldan was in the Arrows books...*grin* (Txtevi...or by "Cara S. Smith" 9) My last message for a long while by Hades16-+AT+-aol.com 10) Re: Starting over by Phoenix 11) hot tempers by Becky Anne Christensen 12) OK: Lurking's over. These current topics are more important by Korendil 13) Bi characters/The list/Blues by Tamara Paravicini 14) Re: An Elder Speaks. by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 15) Starting over [FLUFF] by Rozanna McNeer 16) Re: Eldan/Thanksgiving/Selenay/ by Eleonora 17) Ooops!/open season by Eleonora ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:12:17 -0600 (CST) From: GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu To: MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK Subject: tea party, gleemen Message-ID: <961126161217.22c2d4bf-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu> I remember reading about the tea party, it was very sweet. Tresta: Yes I think that was the reference they were looking for and I was going to suggest it myself. Gleemen being- people who spread glee, so comediec actors and such, I think historically, they also sang, chorale or barbershop or some such. My $.02 on newbies: I'm a youngbie and there have been times when I worried about stepping wrong, but I am generally a paranoid person anyway. once I saw that you didn't bite too hard I was happy enough to jump in. But lately, I think tempers hadn't fully cooled from one "discussion" before another hot spot was encountered and the fires flared easier the second and then the third time. I personally have a great sense of humor and being astoundingly brilliant IMNSHO always get the jokes and figured out 90% of the abrevs before I got the list from Stormwind. I think there are a lot of forceful personallities out there in cyberland and that makes for great discussions we just have to remember as HTH said, These are opinions and thoughts, not scripture. No one here would try to force someone else on the list to follow or agree to "their" religious or lifestyle views, why should everyone have to agree with someones' view of Vanyel? Carrach and I have several subjects where we were shocked to find out that we didn't agree. (We are utterly and to some people's views disgustingly compatible) On those subjects we keep conversation polite and discuss our views so that the other understands but we know we may never agree and that is fine. Whew! Well, back to the grindstone! I am finally drawing again! My creativity has been dead for 6 months and I think the magic of the list has revived it! Thank you all. Dax the Eternal, Lady of the Unicorns and Pegasai Goddess of Elves, Evangelist of Low Humor "Not half so sweet as rotting meat" - Legend Oh rats, to the person uh, Hades I think, Lady Hawke is a fantastic movie, the Last Unicorn, Flight of Dragons Fire and Ice, Troll, Dragonslayer, Any Conan, Highlander III, Fantasia, That's all I can think of at the moment. You can get off the list by sending "Unsubscribe mercedes-lackey " to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk That should help! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:23:13 -0400 From: "Ramona Winkelbauer [SERA]" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Isn't this a Group of ML Fans? (My Take) Message-ID: People have commented that it is strange that the ML Mailing List is not an uncritical "wow" group of Misty fans: i.e., Everything That Is Published By Mercedes Lackey Is Perfect Prose. Since when does being a fan mean that you slavishly adore the object of your admiration without being either aware of time/s s/he is less than at the top of their form or remembering that s/he is human? Once I find a perfect "human", I will cease being aware of his/her imperfections. [Yes, that was *very* sarcastic, but let's get a grip here.] Remember, those person/s that do not like certain book/s are entitled to their opinion. I enjoy reading these critiques because of the added dimension/s they bring to my own reading/awareness/appreciation, which is not to say that I have the Morton's container of salt in the cupboard instead of handily at my elbow. Anyone on this list or even in their daily life realizes that solicited opinions are not directives or iron-clad rules or even agreeable to the person/s asking for additional opinions. YMMV, even about this post from a long-time lurker. Ramona ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:46:09 -0500 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Hating Braids Message-ID: <9611262246.AA12823-+AT+-water.waterw.com> On Tue, 26 Nov 1996, Cara S. Smith wrote: > Ok.. I can't hold my mouth shut anymore. I hate braids. Abhor them. BRAVO! And the reason *I* hate braids is that more often than not the subject line either 1) does not address all the topics within said braid (so you might miss something that interests you); 2) references topics NOT within said braid (so you read a braid looking for something of interest to you that just isn't there - but in the meantime you have to wade thru 10 pages of stuff that *doesn't* necessarily interest you to find this out); 3) has absolutely nothing at all to do with the contents of the braid. (granted, all 3 can also be descriptive of single message subject headers) People's Exhibit #1: Would someone kindly tell me what *this* real-life braid-subject header is supposed to mean (other than someone being "cute"): Subject: Re: Braid Stands In For Brvaes In Order To Decree Two Things Jeanne Hedge http://www.accsyst.com/jhedge/ * * * "If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm." -- Vince Lombardi (1913 - 1970) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:46:15 -0500 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Flaming and Fluff (WAS: Flaming etc.) Message-ID: <9611262246.AA12833-+AT+-water.waterw.com> Mel the Redcap made several good points, one of which I question: > Flaming and hostility to newbies; again, levels are up; partly because some >people dislike the fluff and are as a result more likely to snap on-list, >partly because some people aren't expressing themselves very clearly and >SOUND like they're flaming people when they don't intend to (provoking flames >in reply). Flaming/hostility to newbies because people dislike fluff? I have to disagree with this. (or perhaps I misunderstood what you said?) Personally, what I've seen on this list in the past couple months has been pretty appalling to me. (I don't post much, but I've been around for over a year, and I do not *ever* remember seeing things this bad) As has been said by others, newer members to this discussion list are being "flamed"/"corrected"/"sent to the corner to read the FAQ"/whatever by some longer-standing members for asking perfectly on-topic questions that said longer-standing members are "tired" of (at least, that is the explanation some of these l-s members have given on-list), *not* because of any "fluff" content in the newer member's posts. Yeesh, doesn't anybody remember when *they* were new to the list and wanted their questions answered or to talk about something new they just realized about ML's stories? Did anybody tell *you* to "go read the FAQ, we're tired of talking about that"? As for list-fluff (and it seems to me that many of these same l-s members irritated at newer members over oft-asked questions also seem to be the ones most heavily involved in the fluffy stuff), I think people involved in heavy fluff should be considerate and keep it down. Not everybody enjoys fluff messages, some of us are also tired of and irritated about high-fluff content, and if it's inflating the number of messages (as it has in the past), some people's mail systems can't handle it (and don't go telling people to go find a new provider or new software - that's just plain rude and not everybody has a choice). Our beloved listmistress even addresses the fluff issue in her ADMIN: Rules of Thumb messages. Remember this? >2a) Keep the fluff level down. > > > People's mail systems vary, and many people receive the mailings as > a digest. The latter group, in particular, cannot just delete > individual messages, and I will _not_ tolerate people being driven > from the group because they cannot keep up with the level of mail, if > that level is being artificially inflated by fluff. I don't mind the > occasional off-topic message, but if you're posting several such per > day, consider yourself warned. > > (Alt.books.m-lackey, the Lackey newsgroup, is far fluff-heavier than > this list, and this is most likely because it is (generally) easier > to skip unwanted articles within news readers rather than mail readers. > It is also the main reason why I read about two articles a day from > the newsgroup, if that.) > > >2b) One-liners are a Bad Thing. > > If you feel that you have to respond to someone with a one-line comment, > and that comment is not an answer to a question that has been asked, > consider replying by mail directly to that person. > > (Comment: at the moment, because this is a _discussion_ list, the > default is that, when one hits the 'Reply' button, the mail is directed > to the list at large, rather than the sender of the message to which > you are replying. If you do not know how to change this, if necessary, > you should talk to your local support folks. Asking for help on the > list is unlikely to be productive, since we don't know what mail > system you're using, and they vary wildly.) > >2c) Long .signature files are Right Out. > > The suggested length of signatures on Usenet is four lines. On this > list, where many people post several times a day, it is probably safe > to assume that people will remember who you are after the first post. > Therefore, attaching an 8 - 10 line signature to every post is seen > as antisocial. Don't do it. > > >2d) But, but, why can't they just delete or skip over or unsubscribe? > > Why should they have to? > > Some people pay for every byte of mail they receive. (Yes, this is > still the case in some countries.) Some people pay phone charges to > download their mail. (Just about anyone in the UK who logs in from > home, for starters; local calls are not free in the UK.) I -- or, > to be strictly accurate, my business -- pay for the link to the Net > over which list mail is sent. > > Yes, your off-topic postings can inconvenience people. Yes, your > long signature is costing people money. No, they can't just ignore > it. So don't be so damn selfish. Couldn't have said it better. And take this message as a flame if any of you like. At this point, I don't care. Jeanne Hedge http://www.accsyst.com/jhedge/ * * * "If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm." -- Vince Lombardi (1913 - 1970) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:01:12 -0500 (EST) From: Renee Mic Markowicz To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Lurking Message-ID: Hi all. I just wanted to let everyone know that I'm going missing for the next 5 days. I am going home for Thanksgiving break and have no access to my e-mail account from home. Hey, does anyone know if you can access pine from AOL? If you can, I won't have to return to a majorly flooded Inbox. :) I may even be forced into semi-lurkerdom when I return from break. I have some major finals coming up. I'll still respond to something if I feel I have something to say, but well, there it is. :) ObMisty: I was listening to Windrider Unchained earlier and I came across something that puzzled me. They mention that Sunsinger and Shadowdancer have uh, "Power, new won, have the Singer and Dancer". I think. Then later, Sunsinger "sings back the magic to Windrider's hands." Is their "new" power Windrider's? That kinda confused me. Just wondering what you all thought of that. :) Here's another one - Prince Windrider as a Kaled'a'in? Anyone? :) I mean, since when did anyone from Valdemar have a name like 'Windrider'? As to what's been going on lately, I was truly dismayed when I saw the number of people who left the list or became lurkers because of hurt feelings or angry words. As a still-relative newbie on the list, I must say that I always felt the list was newbie-friendly. I've enjoyed all the discussions/debates that happen, even if I have nothing to contribute. Hearing everyone discuss these things always gives me new insights into Misty's books that I never saw. I find it to be very interesting and it upsets me to see that when someone gets into a major discussion that they are sometimes flamed for their exuberance. I don't intend to leave the list because I _do_ enjoy it, but I hope that everyone that left will eventually come back. I think we'll all miss them until they do. Thanks for your attention. And to end on a happier note: HAPPY THANKSGIVING, EVERYONE!! Renee Knight of the Order of Amber and Marigold flare-+AT+-udel.edu |An argument between two gods: University of Delaware |Verra said, "A convocation will also be boring." Pre-Veterinary student |"You would break our trust to avoid boredom?" **High Priestess of | -Barlan Procrastination** |"You damn betcha, feather-breath." Confused? Just Ask! | -Verra http://udel.edu/~flare/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:02:42 -0800 From: belrex To: Misty list Subject: a 1 liner change Message-ID: <329B9332.3212-+AT+-ra.msstate.edu> Let me change the wording of my last message before i get flamed. I am sorry if my idea of being a fan is different from other peoples. I didn't mean to be offensive. I think bash was to harsh a word. Sorry. I offer everyone small golden gryphon statues. Live and let live. Belrex (Smile, it confuses the hell out of people) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:09:20 -0600 From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu (Nina Ehgartner) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Starting over anf fluff Message-ID: <199611262306.AA119709599-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu> >Hi! I'm Sandy and I work at the Univ. of Michigan. I love Misty and >thanks to many people on this list I belong to, I have also been >introduced to McCaffrey, GGK, Eddings and many more that I haven't gotten >to yet. My real life is pretty standard, so I enjoy a good read :) > >who is next in line??? There are like three hundred of us, que up and >lets see who else is out there!! > Misty is great, and that's why I'm on the list. I work at Northwestern, and I'd personally like to thank Sandy (and the UM football team) for beating OSU for the second straight year. Citrus Bowl, here we come. > > > Nina Ehgartner Admissions Assistant-Office of Admissions and Financial Aid J.L. Kellogg Graduate School of Management email: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu Phone: (847) 491-3308 Fax: (847) 491-4960 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:23:24 -0500 From: "Cara S. Smith" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Eldan was in the Arrows books...*grin* (Txtevi...or Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961126232324.006ae398-+AT+-ns.gamewood.net> 'Reesa wrote: > Okay. Recall with me now, the scene where the Heralds are having a >revel. The one where Skif returns. Now...can quote exactly> > > Arrow Flight, chapter two, page56: > > "The three of them slipped in as quietly as possible to avoid >disturbing the entertainment in progress- a tale being told with some skill >by a middle-aged Herald whose twin streaks of grey, one at each temple, >stood out startilingly in the firelight." > > Sure sounds like our boy Eldan to me! *grin* Anybody else want to >take a crack at this? (Not a shot...I've lost my bullet-proof vest!) /me gets out her copy of Arrow Flight.. thumbs frantically through it and reads the passage, then smacks herself on the forehead. DUH!!! <---- (IRC action command) Ok, I'm better now. Thanks, 'Reesa. Actually, it's weird.. does make me feel alot better about that. I guess I didn't realize how much that bugged me until it got resolved. Does anyone else here do that? With Misty or ANY book/movie, etc? I can be nitpicky about details that otherwise wouldn't matter, when I am extremely enjoying something, and I find a detail that *doesn't* match or whatever. It has ruined several books/movies/etc for me. Thank you both for listening! ;P ------------------------------------------------------------- Cara Smith nitebird-+AT+-ns.gamewood.net The Tales of Teyle: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5777 Pern Ridges: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/2909 Relina's Realm: http://members.tripod.com/~Relina/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 19:18:02 -0500 From: Hades16-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: My last message for a long while Message-ID: <961126191801_1084366523-+AT+-emout16.mail.aol.com> I just want people who are up in arms about the whole newbie-friendly controversy (is that spelled right?) not to cite me as an offended and hurt newbie. On a whole, I think the list is friendly. (I will not name names of who isn't friendly because I am very bad with names and would end up confusing and offending someone). I am leaving for a while because I have an outrageous phone bill and I am not as well versed in ML as I could be. If I do not *see* any of you lovely people soon, Happy Turkey Day. (strange though, I bet the turkies are not at all happy on Turkey Day) ahem now let me sing you a farewell song Don't cry for me ML list The truth is I never left you All through my wild days, my mad existance I kept my promise Don't keep your distance Have I said too much There is nothing more that I can think of to say to you hope you enjoyed it. Hades, who aspired to be a god but settled on being a man ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 19:19:06 -0500 From: Phoenix To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Starting over Message-ID: <329B88FA.7050-+AT+-icom.ca> Sandra K Haas wrote: > > I have read this list for probably two years. I say read, because I don't > contribute much. I either feel it has already been said, or that no one > will care what I say. I love Misty, I love this list. Yea, sometimes it > gets fluffy, but I can use the break from my real life. Yea, sometimes it > is technical and over my head, but I still skim the posts...ya never know > when you might learn something. But I do cringe at the flames. I think > that is something we all agree on. It is ok to not agree with a thought, > but not ok to bash the person doing the thinking. I have decided that I > will stay on this list until it bores me. Like many before me have > stated, just because it has been discussed before, doesn't mean that > everyone was 'here' when it happened. When there are no more insightful > comments, or discussions like the religion one that we had a long time > ago, then I will go. But till then, Heather, Dayna, Cenn, Jag, Mat, etc, > etc, (I hate naming names, I always forget some!) have all taught me > things, made me think and Laugh. I think we just need to start over, and > try again. > > Hi! I'm Sandy and I work at the Univ. of Michigan. I love Misty and > thanks to many people on this list I belong to, I have also been > introduced to McCaffrey, GGK, Eddings and many more that I haven't gotten > to yet. My real life is pretty standard, so I enjoy a good read :) > > who is next in line??? There are like three hundred of us, que up and > lets see who else is out there!! > > Sandy Bright Greetings Sandy Like you I haven't said too much in here either ... discussing points of view is one thing but when it gets into the realm of flaming I've seen people get borfed from Bulletin Boards for flaming and I won't tolerate it on my own board. Isn't one rule that Misty introduced into Valdemar was "that there is no one true way", that should also cover people's sexuallity even thro Shy'a'chern wasn't fully accepted in Valdemar it was tolerated (unlike in our world). 'nuff said May the Lord and Lady shine on you and your's Zhai'hellva Phoenix-Herne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:52:22 -0800 (PST) From: Becky Anne Christensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: hot tempers Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Nov 1996 GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu wrote: > But lately, I think tempers hadn't fully cooled > from one "discussion" before another hot spot was encountered > and the fires flared easier the second and then the third time. Yes! That's it, bravo for you! I agree with you 100%! There was the religion thing, circles, Van, degrees, and there was another one wasn't there? All very recently, that is probably a big reason for all the tension. Might I suggest we try to forget about those discussions, and go along with the idea that (darn it, I forgot who) suggested about starting over. An awful lot of new people have joined, and we don't really know who each other is. Which is also part of the reason I created the list homepage. http://www.psnw.com/~deb/becky/bios It will give you some of the short bios of various listmembers, although recently I have had trouble trying to keep up, I'll get started on it right away. Lady Becky of the Hills ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 19:28:41 -0500 From: Korendil To: "Misty List" Subject: OK: Lurking's over. These current topics are more important Message-ID: <9611270034.AA23090-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> Jeanne Hedge said: >And the reason *I* hate braids is that more often than not the subject line >either 1) does not address all the topics within said braid (so you might >miss something that interests you); 2) references topics NOT within said >braid (so you read a braid looking for something of interest to you that >just isn't there - but in the meantime you have to wade thru 10 pages of >stuff that *doesn't* necessarily interest you to find this out); 3) has >absolutely nothing at all to do with the contents of the braid. (granted, >all 3 can also be descriptive of single message subject headers) > Well, Jeanne, at first I *did* do this. I really tried. But over time one finds that a 256-character limit doesn't leave the *space* to do such a thing--the main reason I stopped. IMO, if you're going to hate braids, there are more reasons than "I actually have to *read* what people spend a portion of their day writing!" I mean, I know I've been on Digest before; Digests are just major braids.They don't show topics, and no-one complains about that. Also, I've started to look through the archives..reading one-liner after one-liner gets annoying. Yes, I realize this is turning into more than just a response to Jeanne. Even Auntie Mel did off-topic one-liners at a point! Why don't we see this now? The list grows. As it grows, we learn. So have entered ObMisty's (and a try, even if rhetorical, is better than nothing) and braids. Some say that braids jar attention quickly from one topic to another--take a look at the very definition of the term, from it's very first usage, so nicely reposted by Esme, iirc. It weaves together many different threads so that mail-load is decreased, listproc doesn't get messed up, and we don't get so many one-liners! I really don't find braids jarring or annoying--I read through my mail every day (ok..so right now I'm skimming-if-even the magewar, but I will get back, guys. reall;>)...I realize not everyone has this luxury. Someone mentioned that it allows you to read on, if not everything interests you; I have to heartily agree. BTW, people, at one point I abhorred braids too...I find they grow on you, though. Like filk;> >People's Exhibit #1: > A court case now? sheesh... >Would someone kindly tell me what *this* real-life braid-subject header is >supposed to mean (other than someone being "cute"): > >Subject: Re: Braid Stands In For Brvaes In Order To Decree Two Things Someone being "cute." Thanks, Jeanne...and lessee. That subject is actually really correct. I did say two main things in that, with some on-topic stuff inbetween so that it wasn't "fluff" (since Danya has classified good-bye's and apologies as such); I was telling the list of a new stance on the whole thing with Jake, unfortunately too late, and that I wasn't mad at Ele or Nightshade. BTW, do some many people find my topics really annoying? And if so, why don't people tell me these things? Contrary to supposed list-status "updates," us Elders do pay attention to someone...I, at least, don't look through the archives to make sure every post I read and pay attention to was written by someone whose been here for more than 5 months.. >Yeesh, doesn't anybody remember when *they* were new to the list and wanted >their questions answered or to talk about something new they just realized >about ML's stories? Did anybody tell *you* to "go read the FAQ, we're tired >of talking about that"? Why does it seem that I only disagree with certain people? That isn't a good thing. ANYway, I think that if you've joined the list to only get a question or two answered, it's pointless. This is a discussion list, not a place to come on for a few days and ask 2 or 3 important questions. There *is* a misty newsgroup...and while no-one told me to "go read the faq," I've asked questions before and had people say "we discussed this awhile ago, remember? the answer was x, iirc." And I'd prefer to get a concise answer to a question instead of having t go through weeks of banter. FAQ reading is like a concentrated newsgroup/list...btw, a lot of people seem to be under the assumption that us Elders have gotten senile and think that there's all these topics in the FAQ. We haven't. I know I did complain a few times in the not-so-distant past, but one of my main complaints was "WHy don't we get this redoing of the FAQ going already? I'm sick of newbies who quite seriously *do* have a right to discuss stuff we've gone over in the past." I understand that a lot of things are just issues...No One True Way. But there *are* yes-or-no questions, too. And with a FAQ, we could get rid of the latter and not redo old points on the former. Take a look at the rasfwjr or AFP websites... > I think people involved in heavy >fluff should be considerate and keep it down. Not everybody enjoys fluff >messages, some of us are also tired of and irritated about high-fluff >content, and if it's inflating the number of messages (as it has in the >past), Another misconception. Those of us who do "heavy" fluff are *very* considerate. If you've been here awhile, and you say you have, then recall the magewar. When asked to leave, we did. Deification, the only major fluff onlist still, isn't exactly high-load. Not like the magewar, with multiple long messages a day, all by two (at the time) people. The FAQ States: >I don't mind the >> occasional off-topic message, but if you're posting several such per >> day, consider yourself warned. Deificiation is multiple posts a day? Or maybe this fluff is something else? >> If you feel that you have to respond to someone with a one-line comment, >> and that comment is not an answer to a question that has been asked, >> consider replying by mail directly to that person. Jeanne? You cite this? This is the reason *for* braids! >>2d) But, but, why can't they just delete or skip over or unsubscribe? >> >> Why should they have to? Remember, all you people saying that Elders can skip or delete posts about stuff that's just rehash...why should we have to? Renee said: >They mention that Sunsinger and Shadowdancer >have uh, "Power, new won, have the Singer and Dancer". I think. Then >later, Sunsinger "sings back the magic to Windrider's hands." Is their >"new" power Windrider's? Here's another one - Prince Windrider as a >Kaled'a'in? I mean, since when did anyone from Valdemar have a name like 'Windrider'? Also, though ~Dancer in shadows, she weeps as she dances/ Dances, unmaking the shadow-born bonds~ that's from memory...I think Lythe used her power to set them free, and..um..his name started with an R? Sunsinger repowered their magic. And I think Windrider is prolly just a nickname he had, possibly because he...um..who knows. Maybe he liked sky diving from gryphons?;P Seriously, maybe Valdemar had closer ties to the Tayledras at one point, and they gave him that name... BTW, about the top part...please don't consider it a flame, anyone--especially Danya. I know I made a few very you-centered remarks, but I didn't mean them in a malicious way, though possibly sarcastic. -+AT+-LIDNEROK___________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________KORENDIL-+AT+- I|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High|I C|Court, Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan, |C U|God of Night and All Things Nocturnal, Champion of the Ladies |U B|of the Pink Wand, Acting Master of Dreams, and Ailurophile. |B E|______________________________________________________________|E D|"Assimilate *this*!" --Worf, Star Trek: First Contact|D .|"Resistance is Futile." --Data, Star Trek: First Contact|. N|"I'm a doctor, not a doorstop!--EMH, Star Trek: First Contact|N E|"The line must be drawn HERE!"--Picard, ST: First Contact |E T|______________________________________________________________|T ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:52:57 +1100 (EST) From: Tamara Paravicini To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Bi characters/The list/Blues Message-ID: <199611270052.LAA06184-+AT+-oznet02.ozemail.com.au> With all the discussion about bisexual characters(or lack of) in Misty's writing, what about the demon (Were?) in 'If I Pay Thee Not in Gold'? He/she changed to she/he every time he/she made love, and ended up with two steady lovers, one male and one female. Could Were be classed as bi? I don't know what others define as bisexual, but to me it means that there is a possibility of a relationship with either men or women. What do we think, peoples? *************************************** Okay, I told myself not to get involved in the debate about 'what's wrong with the list', but I can't help it. I joined the list about four months ago, but post only very rarely, and not at all in recent weeks (guess who's just had final exams?). Now, I'm not exactly the most thin skinned person around, but there have been times when I've decided not to post a reply to something for fear of getting flamed. Its sad, but its true. I also agree with the people who have been saying its gotten worse lately. I keep seeing posts that say 'don't flame me for this, but...', and people shouldn't need to do that. As far as I'm concerned, an opinion is exactly that - an opinion, and as such can't be 'wrong'. You can disagree strongly with an opinion, but you can't call it wrong, because it's that persons personal viewpoint. And to me, that seems to be the problem, as people are being jumped on for stating their opinions. By all means, say why you disagree, but if you can't come to a conclusion then agree to disagree. Fair enough? And yes, all the above is an opinion, so feel free to reply and disagree! :) ************************************************ Just to keep this a little more on-topic, an ObMisty (I know its not necessary, but what the hell) ObMisty:- How do the blues put themselves through their studies? I know that some of them come from rich families, but what about the poor but talented ones? Do they have Valemar scholarships or something? (Yep, guess who's waiting anxiously for uniersity placements and scholarships to be announced?) *************************************************** Wind to thy Wings, Tamara (tparavic-+AT+-ozemail.com.au) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 96 11:53:09 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: An Elder Speaks. Message-ID: <9611270053.AA06083-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> At 05:57 PM 11/26/96 GMT, Hth. wrote: >There is no way around the Degree Trap once it has been set. I'm still >upset because when Kerry -- one of the nicest "oldies" on this list, and >the last who would wander around wantonly insulting people -- tried to >discuss Arthurian legend and its relationship to tragic conventions in >storytelling with an Arthurian scholar, he got smacked down and told in >no uncertain terms that he had no business talking about this unless his >credentials were equal to those of a professional in the field. This >was in no way necessary. The same information could have been imparted >without telling him he was too damn ignorant to play this reindeer game. >All conversation about the relationship between King Arthur's story and >Vanyel's was quashed, and I think there was a vein of substance to that >thread. Now we'll never know. Danya wrote: > I want to clarify this, since I'm the Arthurian scholar in question. The > reason I lashed out at Kerry on this particular topic was that his post, as > far as I could tell, said point blank that I knew nothing about the > Arthurian legends, that I obviously did not know the story of King Arthur > and that, therefore, I was just plain wrong in the point I was trying to > make. The fact is that I do know a great deal about King Arthur (My > dissertation was on the Holy Grail, I co-authored the chapter on Arthur for > Time-Life/Europe's _Mystic Dawn_, I regularly publish and lecture and teach > the legends, and I have a book going into Japanese translation on the topic > in March 1997, which I am _very_ excited about.), and I found it deeply, > deeply insulting to be told otherwise. I'm sorry I lashed out, but I think > my reaction was understandable. That comment hurt. A lot. And it > obviously still does, or I wouldn't be bothering to make a post like this. I'm not going to comment on this on-list again. I've said my piece and made my (ignored) clarifications and I see no reason to repeat them. I'm taking this off-list to personal email with Danya where we can deal with it or not, as the case may be. End of subject for me. Sorry for the one-liner, Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:13:20 -0500 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Starting over [FLUFF] Message-ID: <199611262014_MC1-C71-2A66-+AT+-compuserve.com> Sandy said: >Hi! I'm Sandy and I work at the Univ. of Michigan. I love Misty and >thanks to many people on this list I belong to, I have also been >introduced to McCaffrey, GGK, Eddings and many more that I haven't gotten >to yet. My real life is pretty standard, so I enjoy a good read :) > >who is next in line??? There are like three hundred of us, que up and >lets see who else is out there!! well I'm Firemist, although I go by the name of Rozanna in Mundania, RL, whatever you wish to call it . My first Misty was the Tarma and Kethry short-story that appeared in S&S3 (which I still have, but the poor thing is falling apart!), which I read at the tender-age of, er, 10? 11? not sure. wait, that's a lie. My first Misty was the short-story she wrote for _The Free Amazons of Darkover_ , but Sword-Sworn transcends it the way panthers transcend alley-cats which leads me to my other alternate persona -> the Goddess of Made From Scratch Foods. What does this mean? not a damn thing, other than I can cook like nobody's business Enough of me blabbing. how but the rest of you? Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:28:51 -0300 From: Eleonora To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Eldan/Thanksgiving/Selenay/ Message-ID: <329B9953.3BC1-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy> Cara S. Smith wrote: > Ok, I'm better now. Thanks, 'Reesa. Actually, it's weird.. does make me > feel alot better about that. I guess I didn't realize how much that bugged > me until it got resolved. > > Does anyone else here do that? With Misty or ANY book/movie, etc? I can be > nitpicky about details that otherwise wouldn't matter, when I am extremely > enjoying something, and I find a detail that *doesn't* match or whatever. > It has ruined several books/movies/etc for me. Yes, it does! I hate inconsistencies and details, and it can almost ruin a book/movie for me. I had not really thought about Eldan though, or if I did I must have asumed he was always on circuit. BTS seems to show that he is very much in the field. So, thanks 'Reesa, wonderful textevd. Another detail I fretted about (and someone out there smiled tolerantly and said they really didn't feel bothered) is the mention in BTS about Stefan's pledge to Roald having been made in the library of the palace when actually it was made (at least for the first time) in Roald's lodge near the border. Another issue I am not too happy about is the color of Tayledras Healing Adepts' auras (they seem to change in color between MPawn and MPromise and still be referred to as distinct or characteristic, or soemthing like that). I have lent my LHM books to a very dear friend and so, I lack textevd. ------------- Thanksgiving If someone out there feel so minded, I would like to inquire as to the origin and practice of Thanksgiving. All I know about it is what I sometimes see in movies (namely people getting together, eating and thanking the Lord). Is it only confiend to the States? How did it all start? We do not have a similar festivity that I know of. And also, for those of you who celebrate it, my best wishes for Thanksgiving. May you all find peace with your loved ones. ------------ Emily the Invisible wrote: > Mom came up with a really interesting > question. Why did Selenay's father and Companion let her marry Karethanellan > (sp, Elspeth's father)? Caryo's noninterference can be explained by > Companions insisting on not screwing around with their Chosen (Mom is saying > that she finds this arguement unlikely in the extreme cause Companions are > _always_ interfering). But why would Selenay's father let her marry a bully > who would never be Chosen? > And why didn't Caryo _say_ something? Mom just said that he may have been > the most charming bastard in the world, but Compainions do better than to > just buy _charm_. Rainwood replied: > As for why Caryo didn't prevent it, remember, the Companions didn't > meddle overmuch in the lives of their Chosen. I don't have the textevd > at hand, but I seem to recall somebody saying that Caryo wouldn't have > anything to do with him. IMSHO, if Selenay had been paying attention > she'd have noticed that. But she wasn't. She was too busy getting > swept off her feet, and the current MO was too embarrassed to say > anything. Frankly, Rainwood, I feel the Companions pay mostly lip service to the not meddling issue. Gwena and Rolan are obviously an extreme case of meddling but in between there are several examples of even 'fandes chastising Van for even minor issues, so I guess it would be in order for a Companion to warn his Chosen about such a momentous step as marriage. However, and I am merely speculating here, what if Selenay's marriage to what's-his-name was sort of preordained? What if it was necessary so that Alberich could prove himself and Elspeth be born at that time afterwards cementing the relationship with Rethwellan? (Daren was much too young at the time of his brother's death to be a possible candidate). Just felt by speculating (so I will go duck behind my server's firewall just in case :)) Rainwood also said: > Re Woodlark and a few others I accidentally deleted: > On Kahlil Gibran, make that another big lover of his work. We used part > of _The Prophet_ during our wedding. (Okay, so we also used a line from > _Braveheart_ during the vows, but. . .) His writing is so profound. Hail, fellow Gibran lover! What did you use for your wedding? The poem on love or the one on matrimony. I actually love the whole of the Prophet and also the Prophet's Garden and his other works, although not as much as the Prophet. I have yet to find a Gibran poem I disagree with. One of my frustrations it that I have not found his complete works in English, and only have the english version of the Prophet from which I copied the poem on friendship that I posted. The rest are only tarnslations into Spanish, which is certainly not a language he wrote in. Next time I go to the States I'll make sure to try and hunt those books up. --------- Well, the season's open!! Here I go! I have been dying to discuss this since I joined the list. Regarding Companions > Are Companions reincarnate Heralds? No, don't fret I won't go into that. It's pretty obvious and it is in the FAQs (although as Cen pointed out, we only get the question, and not the answer). > Who is who? Also pretty obvious except for those that are not so obvious and I have therefore not found :) I can think of 3 off the top of my head, but there are possibly more and I would like to see the whole list of "discovered" Heralds. Savil/Sayvil Tantras/Tantris Jaysen/Jasan And more recently żżIdra/Idry?? I know there are possibly many more I have probably noticed some time or other but right now my memory is a veritable sieve > Can other than Heralds be reincarnated? Well, I certainly don't know the answer to that one, other than the fact that if Idry is Idra, it is probably true. > Are all Heralds reincarnated? Well, I guess from the end of MPrice we know that they have choices and they can come back or stay in teh Havens. Waht I do not know if the decision is definite. I mean, could a Herald chose the Havens and then after some well earned rest decide he would like to come back? Sounds logical > Are Grove-Born also reincarnations? Well, this was the issue that got me into trouble in my first post :) so I would like to reissue the other questions I had asked and that were possibly skipped by several oldies after seeing the words Grove-born at teh beginning of the message. We know from Van's words that the Grove born ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:32:07 -0300 From: Eleonora To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List Subject: Ooops!/open season Message-ID: <329B9A17.37D8-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy> Ooops! Sorry My trigger send-happy finger got that message half finished. I wanted to ask about Grove born Companions whether there was any evidence that they might come back as Heralds or humans. I can't think of any but I actually see no reason why not. Also, I know this has possibly been done to death, but I want to know the answer, not discuss it in that case. What happens to a Herald's Companion when he is already a Herald and is Chosen MO?? WTTW, Ele ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 986 *********************************