MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 987

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) "what's textevd?"
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
  2) Reply to: Selenay and Prince Charming
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
  3) Re: Starting over [FLUFF]
	by Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
  4) Braid: Heated arguments/Casting/Eldan/Unusual Gifts/meddling
	by myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
  5) Blues/open season topics/deleting messages
	by Phil Cartier <philcartier-+AT+-earthlink.net>
  6) Starting over/ Lots of FireRose questions
	by Rose <prose-+AT+-ctol.net>
  7) Re: Theatre in Valdemar-- with text.evd.
	by ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com
  8) Re: OK: Lurking's over. These current topics are more important
	by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge)
  9) Re: Ooops!/open season
	by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
 10) B-Day Warning/Newbiefest?/StarTrek
	by dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
 11) deifying and magewar
	by Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
 12) Re: Flaming and Fluff (WAS: Flaming etc.)
	by Melanie Harris <mmharris-+AT+-mat.army.defence.gov.au>
 13) Starting over
	by "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" <Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au>
 14) Re: questions
	by "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
 15) starting all over
	by Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
 16) ML fans/Don't care/Companion meddling/Starting over
	by Rainwood/Jefferson <macstager-+AT+-earthlink.net>
 17) Re: Reply to: Leaving
	by lightstorm-+AT+-juno.com (Michelle N Reis)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:31:50 -0500
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: "what's textevd?"
Message-ID: <199611262032_MC1-C6C-2D45-+AT+-compuserve.com>

>What is textevd and do you have to use it?
>	Why did Cennydd just start frothing at the mouth?

LOFLMAO <g> having been on the receiving end of one of Cenn's "gentle 
reminders" to quote text, cite references, in general provide TEXTual
EViDence back in March? april? when I mentioned an article that said
men could not multi-task <shudder> I couldn't find the bloody thing after that,
and was trying to explain the writer's hypothesis and felt waaaaayyy snowed
under with Cenn cyber-demanding textevd while others seemed to believe
I thought the same way as the author of this article <i don't. men can talk and
drive a car at the same time, right? that's multi-tasking, n'est pas?> At the time
I did feel a bit scorched, but in retrospect I'm sure I could have written my 
posts more lucidly.


alright. ATTENTION MISTY-LIST! group-hugs are in order this minute!
you guys have been just like extended family since I joined, and even siblings
parent-types etc fight, but they usually make-up. so }}}GROUP HUG{{{

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:41:14 -0500
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: Reply to: Selenay and Prince Charming
Message-ID: <199611262041_MC1-C66-562D-+AT+-compuserve.com>

>Caryo's noninterference can be explained by Companions insisting on not 
>screwing around with their Chosen (Mom is saying that she finds this 
>arguement unlikely in the extreme cause Companions are _always_ 
>interfering). But why would Selenay's father let her marry a bully who would
> never be Chosen?

er, trying on  'politcal alliance' for size. hmmm. the two countries seemed to be
getting on well when Roald and Stefensen <? the singing sword guy>
Stefensen was the grandfather of the Faram and Daren, and hence the other
guy, Selenay's consort. do relations really degenerate that quickly? why
would Selenay have to make an alliance-marriage with thingy?


>And why didn't Caryo _say_ something? Mom just said that he may have
>been the most charming bastard in the world, but Compainions do better 
>than to just buy _charm_.

Hey, gwena saw right through whathisface that was seducing Elspeth in
AFall. They don't buy into charm.  Absolutely correct-o <g>

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 20:57:33 -0500
From: Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Starting over [FLUFF]
Message-ID: <9611270203.AA25633-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net>

following Firemist's format...:

I'm Korendil, known in RL as Jonathon (yes, damnit, that's an 'o' at the 
end! I started Misty at the tender age of 9, with LHM...my Mom got it for 
me for Chanukah. I proceded to read everything on the market at the time 
(WoC was in hardcover). I've reread most of my misty to the point that, 
when looking at the brand new copies of my newly converted Misty 
fan(atic)s, I'm amazed that the covers were at one point *glossy*, with 
*white*, not yellow, pages! ;> I try to get at least one person to read 
Misty a year...though I think I didn't 3 years ago...in any case, I'm 
usually up truly late, hence my being the God of Night; Patron Deity of 
All Things Nocturnal (the Acting Master of Dreams thingy is b/c 
Shadow-lover, an Elder who seems to have left us =( was gonna duel me for 
control of said topic back in July, but he left before we could...I took 
the title, finally, by default;>). You can find me here, lurking kind of 
pointlessly on the magewar (and I've been on there since it was a group 
of email addies being sent the Mage Duel), and in Lady Lilac's Bower. 
Oh...regardless of my persona name, I'm str8, or at least am pretty sure 
I am. 

I just checked(not an easy thing), and I'll have been here for 2 years on 
December 22. I signed on *just* as the old listserver died, so the next 
email I got was like January 6th;> I love this list. Occaisonally, I'll 
disappear--at such times I'm tithing to Mat, and I get back on 
eventually. I usually then delete all my old email and start anew. For 
you even more-Elders (any o' ye's still here?), I used to be 
SNESter-+AT+-aol.com, and didn't post much back then. Especially since I 
usually just spent 8 hours every Friday reading the week's email...by the 
time I was ready to respond, someone else was;> Another reason I Hate 
Digests;P Okay..enough. I doubt many are interested. 

Next?

-+AT+-LIDNEROK___________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________KORENDIL-+AT+-
I|Korendil, Knight of Elfhame Sun-Descending, Squire of the High|I
C|Court, Magus Minor, One In Black, Firstborn Child of Danaan,  |C 
U|God of Night and All Things Nocturnal, Champion of the Ladies |U
B|of the Pink Wand, Acting Master of Dreams, and Ailurophile.   |B 
E|______________________________________________________________|E
D|"Assimilate *this*!"          --Worf, Star Trek: First Contact|D
.|"Resistance is Futile."       --Data, Star Trek: First Contact|. 
N|"I'm a doctor, not a doorstop!--EMH,  Star Trek: First Contact|N 
E|"The line must be drawn HERE!"--Picard, ST: First Contact     |E
T|______________________________________________________________|T




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:24:56 +0000
From: myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid: Heated arguments/Casting/Eldan/Unusual Gifts/meddling
Message-ID: <199611270219.UAA26456-+AT+-cdale3.midwest.net>

Okay, on the newbie/oldie/somewhere-in-between, and the flaming, etc., I
guess I'm one of the somewhere-in-betweens because I joined this list in
July when I was suffering from post-TIP (Talent Identification summer
residential Program) depression/boredom/etc., and at first, I did not get
the inside jokes, the little abbreviations, and the forbidden word. But I
felt welcomed, and it was really nice to find a group of people with whom I
could discuss various aspects of Mercedes Lackey's writing. But recently, I
haven't been seeing the friendliness and the openness that I received when
I was a newbie. I'm not saying I'm not guilty of the newbie screw-ups,
(like resurrecting the Groveborn, Talia's Ring, Savil/Sayvil, casting, etc.
discussions and one-liners) but I was quickly forgiven without a singe at
all! It's scary to see that we aren't as welcoming of newbies as y'all used
to be when I joined, and I have seen the tension around here. I don't think
I contributed much to this, but I really don't want to get caught up in it.
I'm not going to lurk, nor am I going to unsub. But I hope tempers have a
chance to cool down. 'Nuff said.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I promised I'd stay out of this to myself... but what the hey. Nightfire wrote:
>>>I have two ideas for Selenay.  She may be a little too young, but I
think Claudia Christian would be great.  However, Emma Thompson might be
perfect.<<<

CC... mebbe. Marina Sirtis, Gates McFadden, and Kate Mulgrew are my top
three choices (guess who's a Trekkie!)

>>>Another who may be a bit young would be Claire Danes for Talia.
But, she does kindhearted and understanding well - I'm thinking of her in
Little Women.<<<

Now why didn't I think of that! She can also do psychotic and obsessive
(R&J), as well as sensual. Yup. I think she can do all aspects of Talia.

Rain wrote:
>>>I love Amberdrake. But who is Adrian Paul? <Rain bats her eyes and looks
confused> I've never heard of him before.<<<

Trust me. Brent Spiner is a much better choice, IMO. Isn't he that
Highlander dude? I think he's just waaaay too macho looking. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cara wrote:
>>>OBMistiy.. sorta.. kinda.. maybe.. um.. if I can think of one.. lessee.. You
know what bugged me about BTS and the Arrows?  Eldan.  I mean, Eldan was a
friend of Selenay's, and obviously well known Herald, and he's not mentioned
until BTS.  I know, I know... BTS was done later.  I know all the
author-type reasons, but it still bugs me, as a reader.  <<<

Eldan... Oh, the twin streaks guy! Yeah, I noticed that, too. In BTS, he is
a well-know Herald, and I guess Talia knows him, too. But IIRC, the time
Kero meets with Eldan again is after the whole Arrows series, after Dirk
made that near-fatal rescue of Talia from Ancar's pad. Was Eldan in battle?
Was he with the queen? Was he on the front lines? What's the deal anyway? I
think Misty came up with this new character but couldn't see a way to make
him fit plausibly into the Arrows-BTS connection.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nina wrote:
>>>I'd like to know more about Heralds with unusual gifts.  Davan had
firestarting, and Eldan had animal mindspeech.  What other "gifts" could
Misty incorporate into later books?<<<

In the Palenoc/Paradane trilogy (Brothers of the Dragon, Flames of the
Dragon, Truimph of the Dragon) there was someone in there with a knack for
summoning ghosts, and there was a chick who could summon any sekoye (dragon
in their terms). Could there be something similar to that in Velgarth? A
Herald who could walk the Moonpaths (not bloody likely unless it's a
Hawkbrother or Shin'a'in shaman-Herald), who could see who a person was in
his or her past lives, etc. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Emily (or her mother?) wrote:
>>>And why didn't Caryo _say_ something? Mom just said that he may have been
the most charming bastard in the world, but Compainions do better than to
just buy _charm_.<<<

Companions don't meddle, and besides, it was an alliance marriage, IIRC.
Companions can't -- and don't -- meddle with the affairs of Heralds, and
they don't make really serious comments that may influence a Herald's
judgement. But I think Caryo thought that whatshisface wasn't really good
for Selenay, but didn't object because it was for alliance as well as a
semblance to love.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WOW! This is incredible! Except for the casting, this post is mostly Misty!
I LOVE DATA! Sorry.

Love, logic, and Lore's emotion chip,
Summersong & Spiffy the Cat
*************************************
Akiko Hirao <myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net>
"Captain, I believe I am speaking for the whole 
crew when I say this... To hell with our orders!" 
-- Lt. Cmdr. Data from Star Trek: First Contact
*************************************


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:32:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Phil Cartier <philcartier-+AT+-earthlink.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Blues/open season topics/deleting messages
Message-ID: <199611270232.SAA25759-+AT+-serbia.it.earthlink.net>

Ok, warning time (and apologies). Sorry I sent a duplicate post. I have
never used Eudora  and it looked like the message hadn't been sent (Mom has
done it a coupla times to me too). Also, Mom and Stephanie (my sis) are
reading over my shoulder, and may steal the keyboard. ObMisty:- How do the
blues put themselves through their studies? 

Tamara asked:
>ObMisty:- How do the blues put themselves through their studies?  I know
>that some of them come from rich families, but what about the poor but
>talented ones?  Do they have Valemar scholarships or something?   (Yep,
>guess who's waiting anxiously for uniersity placements and scholarships to
>be announced?)
IIRC, this was explained in passing in the Storms tril. Most of Natolie's
friends had a patron/sponsor type person who paid for them to study at the
Collegium. I think it was explained in the part where Natolie took Karal to
the Compass Rose (I refuse to go digging in my sister's room for textual
evidence, and she says she doesn't know where it is at all...). I'll look
later tonight, and post the evidence if someone else doesn't get to it first.

Cennydd said:
>Who is Sylvia and what is she, that all our swains commend her?
Sounds familiar (Mom thinks it's from a 17th C song?), but I can't place it.
Where _did_ it come from Cenny?

Kory, our returning elf:
>Remember, all you people saying that Elders can skip or delete posts 
>about stuff that's just rehash...why should we have to?
I can sort of see their side, but I kind of fall in with the "Rules of
Thumb". I don't know that anyone on list pays per byte, but I think we
should act as if everyone is paying long distance charges to download every
byte of their mail, and on top of that, they have to pay their ISP. I don't
want to see chain mail (I am restraining myself by an act of will). I don't
want to see virus warnings. I don't want to see anything else banned by the
"Rules of Thumb" (and _I'm_ not an elder, just a very opinionated newbie). I
think that everyone should read all five parts of the FAQ and the "Rules of
Thumb" before their first post, and maybe scan the last week's worth of
digests. It won't make you flame proof, but it will help you figure out what
in the world is going on here :-). 

Oh man, and I was doing so well for a while here, keeping out of rant mode.
Oh well. Better luck next time. I did learn that Eudora has a "paste as
quote" feature (totally nonexistant in the PegasusMail AFAIK, but I may be
wrong...). "No knowlege is ever wasted." Who said that <g>?

Emily the ivisible


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:20:09 -0500
From: Rose <prose-+AT+-ctol.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Starting over/ Lots of FireRose questions
Message-ID: <329BB369.7F8F-+AT+-ctol.net>

I don't know if a STARTING OVER post would be needed by me, but since I 
never properly introduced myself in the first place, here it is. I was 
named at birth Dyana, but most recently another personality has been 
floating around. Please give a warm Misty welcome to Kawryathen ( I'm 
thinking of introducing this one to the magewars but she's got a bit of 
developing to do) I, personally am 18, go to college and plan on leaving 
college with a Civil/Materials Engr degree. As for my first Misty 
experience? Got Arrows of the Queen from the library about the year that 
Magic's Price came out in paperback and have been completely hooked 
since then. I read Fantasy and non-mainstream fiction (Richard Bach) as 
a rule to keep my brain from going numb. I love to write and keep a 
comprehensive journal of myself. I also act when given the chance, play 
the guitar, and sing when noone else is listening. I have always 
considered being called strange the highest compliment I can recieve and 
do my best to live up to it.

Obmisty: Uh.. is it a copyright infringment to get a tattoo copied form 
Larry's work (yes, I like his work)? And, oooh, I know I had one here 
somewhere. I remember. For all who have read FireRose (if you haven't, 
it would be better to skip this) didn't Rose give Jason medicine from 
the wrong colored bag? And what ever happened to the perscriptions Pau 
gave to her? She never seemed to bother with taking any of them. Once 
again, I felt the story was wrapped up way to quickly, it could have 
used another 100 pages easy. Especially more Sylphs, I don't buy it that 
Rose convienently forgot about them when she was attacked.
                       Kawryathen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:21:25 -0500
From: ShadowJaz-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Theatre in Valdemar-- with text.evd.
Message-ID: <961126222123_706154752-+AT+-emout16.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 96-11-26 10:56:34 EST, you write:

> It's quite possible that if acting companies are mobile, that there just
>  haven't been any around at the time - after all, we don't see any sign of
>  gypsy sideshows before Our Heroes decide to disguise themselves in one,
>  and I don't recollect any encounters with bards either, other than
mentions
>  in passing or the bit where Van's pretending to be one.
>  


 I just remembered something, does everyone remember when Moondance is
telling Van about his discovery of being shaych, and what happened to his
lover? I seem to remember his lover being a member of an acting troupe. Okay,
I have the book with me, this is text.evd. from "Magic's Pawn"

     p. 249. 3-in-one-edition, Moondance is talking to Van, telling him of
his first lover, " Then, the summer of the worst of the arguements, there
came a troupe of gleemen to the village. And there was a young man among
them, a very handsome young man, and the boy Tallo found that he was not the
only young man with yearnings for his own sex."

So, in Van's time at least, there were traveling groups of performers. I may
not have been right about actors, the dictionary says gleemen are like bards
and minstrels. But hey, at least it's a traveling group as opposed to
individual traveling bards/minstrels/troubadours. On-topic, with text evd.
too , there's a first <g>. 

Blessed Be,

NightShade

OIB, LotPW, High Priestess Of All Things Nocturnal, & Knight Of The OAM

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:51:22 -0500
From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: OK: Lurking's over. These current topics are more important
Message-ID: <9611270351.AA02069-+AT+-water.waterw.com>

Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net> wrote in response to my post on why I hate
braids:
>Jeanne Hedge said:

>>And the reason *I* hate braids is that more often than not the subject line
>>either 1) does not address all the topics within said braid (so you might
>>miss something that interests you); 2) references topics NOT within said
>>braid (so you read a braid looking for something of interest to you that
>>just isn't there - but in the meantime you have to wade thru 10 pages of
>>stuff that *doesn't* necessarily interest you to find this out); 3) has
>>absolutely nothing at all to do with the contents of the braid.  (granted,
>>all 3 can also be descriptive of single message subject headers)
>
>Well, Jeanne, at first I *did* do this. I really tried. But over time one 
>finds that a 256-character limit doesn't leave the *space* to do such a 
>thing--the main reason I stopped. IMO, if you're going to hate braids, 
>there are more reasons than "I actually have to *read* what people spend 
>a portion of their day writing!" 

Excuse me?  Are you being serious or sarcastic - I honestly can't tell.  Are
you saying that everyone must read every word in every message?  Some of us
are on digest and *still* don't have time to read everything - hence
skimming.  The easiest way to skim for what you are truly interested in
reading is to read the subject headers.  If the subject headers are wrong,
you'll miss something you want to read, or waste time looking for something
you're interested in that isn't there.  And it seems to me that braid
subject headers are more often (partially or fully) incorrect, probably
because of the multi-message/topic content, than those of individual posts.
Which is why I, fully admitting the same thing can (and does) happen to
individual posts, don't like braiding.

>I mean, I know I've been on Digest 
>before; Digests are just major braids.They don't show topics, and no-one 
>complains about that. 

I beg to differ - I *am* on digest, and digests *do* show topics - twice.
Here is the beginning of the digest this message I am replying to came in:

>			    MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 986
>
>Topics covered in this issue include:
>
>  1) tea party, gleemen
>	by GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu
>  2) Isn't this a Group of ML Fans?  (My Take)
>	by "Ramona Winkelbauer [SERA]" <rwinkelb-+AT+-nsf.gov>

Not only is there a summary of every subject header, and who sent the
message at the top of each digest (there were 17 messages in this particular
digest), but you also get the individual headers with each message. 


>>Would someone kindly tell me what *this* real-life braid-subject header is
>>supposed to mean (other than someone being "cute"):
>>
>>Subject: Re: Braid Stands In For Brvaes In Order To Decree Two Things
>
>Someone being "cute." Thanks, Jeanne...and lessee. That subject is 
>actually really correct. I did say two main things in that, with some 
>on-topic stuff inbetween so that it wasn't "fluff" (since Danya has 
>classified good-bye's and apologies as such); I was telling the list of a 
>new stance on the whole thing with Jake, unfortunately too late, and that 
>I wasn't mad at Ele or Nightshade. 

Please explain for me (and I *am* serious, I really don't understand) how
you get telling the list about Jake and not being mad at Ele or Nightshade
out of "Braid Stands In For Brvaes In Order To Decree Two Things"?  This
subject header makes absolutely no sense to me.


And Korendil also addressed my post about Flaming and Fluff:
>Jeanne Hedge wrote:

>>Yeesh, doesn't anybody remember when *they* were new to the list and wanted
>>their questions answered or to talk about something new they just realized
>>about ML's stories? Did anybody tell *you* to "go read the FAQ, we're tired
>>of talking about that"?
>
>Why does it seem that I only disagree with certain people? That isn't a 
>good thing. ANYway, 

Taking shots?  That comment certainly comes across that way.

>I think that if you've joined the list to only get a 
>question or two answered, it's pointless. This is a discussion list, not 
>a place to come on for a few days and ask 2 or 3 important questions. 

So if I understand you correctly, your opinion is that because this is a
discussion list a person shouldn't join if they have questions to ask?

And seriously, how many people come to this list, ask only 2 or 3 questions,
and leave forever?  Not too many I would guess.  Mel would have a better
idea, I'm sure...


>btw, a lot of 
>people seem to be under the assumption that us Elders have gotten senile 
>and think that there's all these topics in the FAQ. We haven't. I know I 
>did complain a few times in the not-so-distant past, but one of my main 
>complaints was "WHy don't we get this redoing of the FAQ going already? 
>I'm sick of newbies who quite seriously *do* have a right to discuss 
>stuff we've gone over in the past." I understand that a lot of things are 
>just issues...No One True Way. But there *are* yes-or-no questions, too. 
>And with a FAQ, we could get rid of the latter and not redo old points on 
>the former. 

Would you please clarify this?  It sounds like you are contradicting
yourself here: You say that new members have the right to discuss stuff that
has been discussed in the past, but you also talk about having the FAQ of
stuff that's already been discussed so you don't redo old discussion points?


<snip>
>> I think people involved in heavy
>>fluff should be considerate and keep it down.  Not everybody enjoys fluff
>>messages, some of us are also tired of and irritated about high-fluff
>>content, and if it's inflating the number of messages (as it has in the
>>past),
> Another misconception. Those of us who do "heavy" fluff are *very* 
>considerate. If you've been here awhile, and you say you have, then 
>recall the magewar. When asked to leave, we did. Deification, the only 
>major fluff onlist still, isn't exactly high-load. Not like the magewar, 
>with multiple long messages a day, all by two (at the time) people.

True.  But then again, why should a member of a list for discussion of the
works of Mercedes Lackey Discussion List have to put up with deifications or
mage wars at all? Especially when we're in a cycle where some people seem to
want to restrict the *on-topic* discussion items.

The FAQ States:
>>I don't mind the
>>>	occasional off-topic message, but if you're posting several such per
>>>	day, consider yourself warned.
>
>Deificiation is multiple posts a day? Or maybe this fluff is something 
>else?

Yes, deification was multiple posts a day.  It is waning now.  Mage Wars was
multiple posts a day.  As you've pointed out, that's off-list now.  I'm sure
someone will come up with something to take their place in the next couple
months.


>>>2d) But, but, why can't they just delete or skip over or unsubscribe?
>>>
>>>	Why should they have to?
>
>Remember, all you people saying that Elders can skip or delete posts 
>about stuff that's just rehash...why should we have to?

Because the list owner said so.  (poor answer, but it's true -- and
*everybody* on this list would be in trouble in some way, shape, or form if
Mel ever decided to start enforcing the list rules)


Jeanne Hedge
http://www.accsyst.com/jhedge/
                                 *   *   *
"If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm."

                -- Vince Lombardi (1913 - 1970)


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:11:43 -0800
From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Ooops!/open season
Message-ID: <199611270411.UAA22009-+AT+-latimes.com>

At 02:09 AM 11/27/96 GMT, Eleonora wrote:
>Ooops! Sorry
>My trigger send-happy finger got that message half finished. I wanted to
>ask about Grove born Companions whether there was any evidence that they
>might come back as Heralds or humans. I can't think of any but I
>actually see no reason why not.

There is evidence of this, but, unfortunately, it's in SB.
>
>Also, I know this has possibly been done to death, but I want to know
>the answer, not discuss it in that case. What happens to a Herald's
>Companion when he is already a Herald and is Chosen MO??

The original Companion simply withdraws and the Herald bonds with the MOC.

Danya


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 23:04:15 -0500
From: dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: B-Day Warning/Newbiefest?/StarTrek
Message-ID: <199611270414.XAA20741-+AT+-sirocco.CC.McGill.CA>


	the 28th of November is KHENTA'S BIRTHDAY!!!!!  Get ready.

Ele said:
>>>At about the same time Deniz posted her newbie fest and it DID explain a 
lot of things such as the Drifting Ashes, etc., etc.<<<

Why, thanks.  Err... I accidentally dumped it, but if you want, I can rewrite 
the Newbie-Fest.  Do you guys think it's neccessary?  It had things like: 
Drifting Ashes, How to obtain the FAQ, the Sheep Thing (something along the 
lines of, "I don't know either.  Don't bother, you'll just get grinned at.  
Besides, isn't it fun making stuff up?"  Of course that's not entirely true 
now, but still...), Deification (or do NOT call yourself a God(dess) without 
having Cenn or Thess name you, and don't post Chain letters, and so on.  I can 
add something on the nature of braiding, too ("one-liners are evil." -- 
Cennydd).

FIRST CONTACT SPOILER








You know, I never got to do a spoiler before.







Is that enough?




An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


<wail> <howl>  How come Beverly didn't get to do that much?  And what happened 
to her hair?  And what happened to the romance between her and Picard?  We 
know they get married (Generations) (and divorced, but that's painful to think 
about).  Well, at least they didn't try to dress her up in a tablecloth.

love,
deniz sarikaya, High Priestess |"Assimilate THIS!" -- Worf
of Procrastination, Holy Custo-|"You told him about the statue?" -- Riker
dian of the B-Day List, and    |"Resistance is futile." -- Data
Dame of Amber and Marigold.    |Star Trek: First Contact
                 dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA

<----  End Forwarded Message  ---->

love,
deniz sarikaya, High Priestess |But she had the trick of making a little
of Procrastination, Holy Custo-|island right in the middle of time, and of
dian of the B-Day List, and    |your knowing, which is what time does to
Dame of Amber and Marigold.    |you.    --   Robert Penn Warren
                 dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:33:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: deifying and magewar
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.961126202516.3377A-100000-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Jeanne Hedge wrote:

> True.  But then again, why should a member of a list for discussion of the
> works of Mercedes Lackey Discussion List have to put up with deifications or
> mage wars at all? Especially when we're in a cycle where some people seem to
> want to restrict the *on-topic* discussion items.

	Okay, I don't think the magewar should count as an example, the 
minute it was said to become a nuisance and didn't belong on list, we 
moved it. And at the time, it seemed as if most of the list was enjoting 
the duel, not just putting up with it. 

Now, if people are upset about the deification thing, then we 
can move that to private mail. There. Problem solved. That okay with 
everybody? Petition whoever it is you're going to petition to become 
priestess, whatever (for the moment Cennyd is doing the actual deifying 
<is that a word?>) then you can get a *private* response, or whatever, 
and in your next message, to the list put a little message at the 
bottom that reads


Heyla everybody! I have just been deified as the God(dess) of snoodly-foot
As an offering I give each of you snoodly-foot dust! :) 


Or whatever. Obviously you don't need to write exactly that, but 
something along those lines. Sound okay to everyone? I apologize if I 
sound harsh, I'm not, but I want to get these problems resolved and get 
back to normal, or as normal as it ever gets, list-life. Bye!


*--------------------Lady Becky of the Hills--------------------*
|Goddess of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereals                      |
|Handmaiden of Procrastination                                  |
|Lady in Green                                                  |
|Founder of the AftPoSWT (confused? Just ask.)                  |
|Mailing List Homepage http://www.psnw.com/~deb/becky/misty.html|
|beckyanne-+AT+-iforge.com                                           |
*---------------------------------------------------------------*


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:13:58 +1000
From: Melanie Harris <mmharris-+AT+-mat.army.defence.gov.au>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Flaming and Fluff (WAS: Flaming etc.)
Message-ID: <329BCE16.2623-+AT+-mat.army.defence.gov.au>

Jeanne wrote:
> Mel the Redcap made several good points,

<g> why thank yew <simper> (flattery will get you anywhere!)

> one of which I question:

Wahey! Reasoned discussion! <g>

> >  Flaming and hostility to newbies; again, levels are up; partly because 
> >some people dislike the fluff and are as a result more likely to snap 
> >on-list, partly because some people aren't expressing themselves very 
> >clearly and SOUND like they're flaming people when they don't intend to 
> >(provoking flames in reply).
> 
> Flaming/hostility to newbies because people dislike fluff?  I have to
> disagree with this. (or perhaps I misunderstood what you said?)

Errrr... no, I wasn't as clear as I could have been, was I? I meant that if 
someone dislikes the fluff (which there is a lot of at the moment), they are 
likely to be irritated by it while they are reading their list mail, and if 
they're already in an irritated mood they're more likely to react angrily and 
publicly when they read something they disagree with. Example: "agh, what is 
it with these sheep... oh bugger, another deification post, why don't they 
shut up... that was a really silly post, what was the point, this is supposed 
to be a sensible list... grumble grumble grumble... Oh for crying out loud, 
that is the stupidest idea I ever heard! Misty never said that, you moron!" 
<angrily hits 'reply' button, rants on-screen, hits 'send'.> If this 
hypothetical person hadn't already been irritated, they might have gone "Huh? 
Where did they get that idea? Hmmm... I'll ask for textevd and see if they've 
got a point." I know I've had to stop myself reacting that way a couple of 
times on a different list (a really drawn-out technical discussion that I 
considered boring and rather pointless was annoying me), and once I had a 
really beautiful "Ye gods you're stupid! Read the book!" flame composed and 
almost ready to go, when my boss gave me some typing to do - I went back to 
my e-mail later and went "My god, did I write *that*? Eeeek! Did he actually 
deserve it? <checks> Er... no, he didn't..." I try to be verrrrrry careful 
since then...


Mel the Redcap
holder of numerous fluffy titles that I'm actually rather proud of... <g>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:52:46 +1030
From: "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" <Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Starting over
Message-ID: <9611270422.AA144320-+AT+-bilbo.cc.flinders.edu.au>

as Firemist suggests:

I am Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda both here and in RL - I changed my surname
officially to n'ha Winifreyda when I was 35 - it means daughter of Winifred
(who was my mother). Origin - The Oath of the Comhi-Letzii from the Darkover
books by MZB. I first read Misty in the Sword & Sorceress anthologies and
have since got all of her Valdemar novels and 3 of her Bardic novels. AtQ
was the first novels I read by her and the LHM (and sobbed!!!) I have a deep
and meaningful relationship with the Story-teller Bookshop in my suburb of
Blackwood in sunny Adelaide, South Australia and they are in the process of
ordering ALL of the rest of her novels for me from USA. 

I read most fantasy, occasional science fiction and am a Trekkie (and proud
of it). I recently had to move home because I needed another room for my
books. My favourite authors are Misty (of course), MZB, Anne McCaffrey,
Sheri Tepper, Charles de Lint, Katherine Kerr, Sara Douglass, Patricia
Kenneally-Morrison, Mary Gentle, Heinlein, David Eddings etc. I also like
whodunits - like those by Sara Dreher and Claire McNab. Yes, most of them
are female writers and that is partly because I am a feminist.  I am an
identical twin with Erica who continues to be one of my closest friends and
a constant source of love in my life and lives 1,200 kms from me in Western
Australia. She also loves Misty - so I have to order 2 of everything! I am
shaych (and proud of it) and have had to cope with rampant homophobia at
work, at home (in my family) and in my social life. I sing in a Gay and
Lesbian choir that delights me.  I also am a lecturer in Nursing, as well as
a Nurse, and am contemplating doing PhD next year. 

Because I am so often judged, I find bias and prejudice intolerable and I
try hard never to judge another because of colour, shape, sexual preference,
gender or culture etc. I was attracted to Misty's and MZB's writings because
they tend to offer a more balanced view. I find the use of fantasy to
explore issues fascinating - especially how Sheri Tepper used it to explore
religion and spirituality. 

That's it for now - }}}}}}BIG ZEN HUGS{{{{{ to you all.

Practise randomn acts of kindness and senseless beauty.
Regards

Ailsa

Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda
Head: Department of Nursing Practice
School of Nursing,
Flinders University of South Australia
Email:Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au
                          
" Nurse, Renunciate,  Dragon Friend & Herald-Healer"


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:26:40 -0800
From: "Linda Malcor, Ph.D" <legend-+AT+-oxy.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: questions
Message-ID: <199611270426.UAA22286-+AT+-latimes.com>

At 03:34 AM 11/27/96 GMT, Rose wrote:
>Obmisty: Uh.. is it a copyright infringment to get a tattoo copied form 
>Larry's work (yes, I like his work)? 

Yes, that would be copyright infringmenet.  It has been my understanding
from dealing with such matters with my own publishers that an illustration
must be altered at least 51% from the original before it may be reprinted
without obtaining the original artist's permission.  But I would certainly
check with an actual copyright attourney to be sure (Actually, I just flat
wouldn't do it in the first place 'cuz I suspect it would make Larry feel
rotten.).

Danya


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:55:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Becky Anne Christensen <beckyanne-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: starting all over
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.961126203334.3377C-100000-+AT+-sybok.iforge.com>


	Okie dokie everybody. Here I go!

	I'm Becky Anne Christensen in RL, but on the list I'm Lady Becky 
of the Hills, a Lady in Green, Goddess of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereals, 
Handmaiden of Procrastination, and Founder of the Association for the 
Preservation of Shiny Wax Turtles. I was one of the first few Ladies in 
Green, back in the dawn of time (okay, so it was only a few months ago, 
when the magewar, or mage duel, first started, I was feeling dramatic) 
	I'm 16, my birthday is May 15. I am a juinor (11th grade) at 
Roosevelt High School for the PErforming Arts in Fresno, CA. This year my 
classes are Psychology, US History, American Literature, Intermediate 
Tap, Intermediate Ballet(I get to do advanced next year! :)), and I just 
switched into a Intermediate Jazz Dance class, oh yeah, and French III, 
which I am completely lost in. :)

	My first love is ballet, I absolutely adore it! I went on pointe 
earlier this year, (that's when you're dancing on the very tips of your 
toes, not just the balls of your feet) and I didn't think I would live 
thfough it. I swear I've never used as many band-aids in my entire life 
as when I first got my toe shoes. But it's worth every blister I ever 
got. You should see my feet now, they're really funky looking, with 
callouses in weird places, but now I can actually dance on my toes, 
pretty spiffy eh?

		 I love dancing (obviously), I play 
piano, sing as long as I don't have to do it by myself, and read of 
course. I'm auditioning for The Wizard of Oz next week, and am part of a 
touring show, Quilters. Ummmmmm, I have one cat, his name is Cat. He had 
to have his tail amputated, and he's kinda funny looking now, and he's 
*reeealllly* dumb, but I love him anyways. Right now he looks like one 
big puff ball, he gets a lot of fur in the winter. I used to do a lot of 
stuff with church, but lately I haven't, I've been getting really 
frustrated with the leaders and their guilt trips. That's about it, I 
think.

	I don't know if I'm an oldie yet, I've been on here for a year, 
and I understand all the little jokes and symbols, I guess I'm more of 
middle aged ;) I love you guys, because you're all so wonderful, and I 
still think we ought to have a summer camp and call it Camp MistyList, so 
we can all meet each other. But seeing as how things have been going 
lately, maybe it's not such a good idea, we might bring blowtorches and 
*really* flame people :) *IBSH* (I'm Being Sarcastic Here) <kidding> 

Bye!

*--------------------Lady Becky of the Hills--------------------*
|Goddess of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereals                      |
|Handmaiden of Procrastination                                  |
|Lady in Green                                                  |
|Founder of the AftPoSWT (confused? Just ask.)                  |
|Mailing List Homepage http://www.psnw.com/~deb/becky/misty.html|
|beckyanne-+AT+-iforge.com                                           |
*---------------------------------------------------------------*



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 07:14:59 -0800
From: Rainwood/Jefferson <macstager-+AT+-earthlink.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: ML fans/Don't care/Companion meddling/Starting over
Message-ID: <329B0973.56F8-+AT+-earthlink.net>

Ramona Winkelbauer [SERA] wrote:
> 
> Since when does being a fan mean that you slavishly adore the object of
> your admiration without being either aware of time/s s/he is less than at
> the top of their form or remembering that s/he is human? 

I agree with everything you said.  That is one of the things that I like
the most about this list. When someone doesn't think a particular piece
of ML's work is up to snuff, he/she says so - and generally a very
interesting discussion is created. :)
Somebody (I don't remember who, sorry <sheep>) asked what ML would think
if she read this list and saw us critizising her work.  Personally, I
think she would objectively listen to what we had to say - and continue
to follow HER muse where it leads her.  If a writer can't take an honest
opinion regarding their writing, they'll never make it commercially. 
Any editor will tell you that.  Any professional writer will doubtless
agree!  I think she'd be delighted that we care so much about her work. 
Most of the writers of my acquaintance welcome objective critizism and
generally have several folks reading their manuscripts for that very
purpose.

Jeanne Hedge said:
>>>And take this message as a flame if any of you like.  At this point, I don't care.<<<

First, let me clarify that this is NOT a flame.  I've only deliberately
flamed somebody once in my whole life, and it wasn't even on this list.
I was really saddened by that remark.  There have been several others
like it - and I've deleted them all so no attribs., sorry.  I am
profoundly disheartened to hear someone *say* that about this list,
because, people, we *should* care.  I'm just a newbie here, but I really
care about what's been going on with the list.  Someone pours out all
their problems with the list, and ends with: "I don't care anymore", and
I feel like we shouldn't have let things get to that point.  I don't
have anything constructive to add to the newbie-unfriendly debate, and
others have been making some really good suggestions - but I had to add
my $.02.
For whatever it's worth.

Eleneora said:
>>Frankly, Rainwood, I feel the Companions pay mostly lip service to the
not meddling issue.  <snip> However, and I am merely speculating here,
what if Selenay's marriage to what's-his-name was sort of preordained?
Just felt by speculating (so I will go duck behind my server's firewall
just in case :))<<

<sigh> <Rainwood approaches Ele, hands outstretched and empty> No
coconuts.  No flamethrower.  I really wish we could stop ducking and
sheeping all the time. :)
I don't know about the Companions not meddling/not meddling.  I mean,
there is textevd either way.  I think that perhaps they do meddle at
times, and perhaps some Companions are worse than others.  Gwena seemed
an exception rather than the rule.  I don't recall Rolan meddling except
to shield Talia when she fell to pieces in AFlight, and the famous
rescue from Ancar.  I think that the Companions meddle in times of
extreme duress, but otherwise allow their Chosen to grow as individuals
which sortof necessitates allowing them to periodically screw the pooch.
(Excuse the charming slang, but I just re-read _City who Fought_, I love
Simeon!).  As far as Selenay and wossname being preordained, personally
I doubt it - but it's a really good point <grin> Now would you please
come out from behind that wall? Okay, okay, BIG GROUP HUG!! <Rain turns
blue, puts on a Goofy hat, Hawaiian shirt and *poof*>

Starting over.  .  .
Well, my name is Rainwood. Really. Even on my Driver's License. I'm 27,
happily married to a screenwriter-art director (he designed the Space
Jam soda cups currently at your local theatres kids! And yes, I am a
very proud spouse.) I've got 2 kids aged 2 and 5, currently work at a
school for severely emotionally disturbed children.  I'm planning to
finish college one day, but I don't know what I am going to do when I
grow up.  I love all things Celtic, and have a small business doing
Celtic knotwork woodcuts, embroidery on ren. garb, etc. I've got a web
site you can visit, though the only thing on it is my little lambchop -
but it's growing! I am also a voracious reader, but that probably goes
without saying on this list.  .  . and that, as they say, is that!

Bright the day my friends.

Rainwood <macstager-+AT+-earthlink.net>
KotOAM, LotPW, HP of Domesticity and Laundry
http://home.earthlink.net/~macstager/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:53:04 EST
From: lightstorm-+AT+-juno.com (Michelle N Reis)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Reply to: Leaving
Message-ID: <19961126.193600.8870.3.Lightstorm-+AT+-juno.com>

hey, this is a reply to firemist's question on how us newbies or
semi-newbies feel about the list.
well here goes:  personally, i love the list.  i enjoy reading everyone's
opinion's and adding my own when necessary.  i have not felt that i had
to duck and cover nor have i felt threatened or disregarded for being
new.  i also enjoy the fluff.  it's a great laugh in sometimes tedious
arguments.  i think the main problem is not taking the time to really
think about what someone has written and merely reacting to a statement. 
i enjoy all of your company, so please don't leave.

Lightstorm, Lady of the Pink Wand, Dame of the Order of Amber and
Marigold
"Thought is barred in this City of Dreadful Joy and conversation is
unknown."-
Aldus Huxley


------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 987
*********************************