MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 990

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Heyla
	by KayCeeFour-+AT+-aol.com
  2) Welcome back/Heyla/ObMisty
	by tygriss-+AT+-juno.com (Sara A Youngblood)
  3) LHM covers -- FLUFF
	by Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
  4) Re: starting all over
	by Phoenix <phoenix-+AT+-icom.ca>
  5) Re: LHM covers -- *NOT* FLUFF..well..maybe.
	by Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
  6) Cats in Velgarth
	by singer-+AT+-iglobal.net
  7) Re: Stef/ Starting over
	by JMACGMAC-+AT+-aol.com
  8) Braid: Kory's Sig/voice tone in writing/First Contact Spoiler
	by myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
  9) Starting Over Again
	by myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
 10) Braid:
	by Ken Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
 11) Voice Inflection / Introductions
	by Shdwflt-+AT+-aol.com
 12) Brvaes Sharpens His Spoon To Aid Escape Attempts From Attribia
	by Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:05:47 -0500
From: KayCeeFour-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Heyla
Message-ID: <961127230546_1750959598-+AT+-emout18.mail.aol.com>


> Ele said:
>  >By the way Cen, I do not remember whether I asked you before or not. I
>  >certainly meant to. Maybe it is among the subjects that have been done
>  >to death (TM) but since the season is open.... It is about Heyla. Is it
>  >used anywhere else or is it exclusively a Mistyish Velgarth term?? Just
>  >curious

I've just want to say that when I was in Greece, the word "Hola", was
sometimes pronounced "heyla", but I never saw it written out and didn't know
if it was just an accent thingy or a dialect difference. 

KC
<KayCeeFour-+AT+-aol.com>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:10:46 EST
From: tygriss-+AT+-juno.com (Sara A Youngblood)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Welcome back/Heyla/ObMisty
Message-ID: <19961127.220753.4591.0.Tygriss-+AT+-juno.com>

On Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:04:55 GMT Shdwflt-+AT+-aol.com writes:

>I have simmered down, and am sheepishly coming back onlist (although I 
>do
>feel that I had the right to be upset).  Please note my new address.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Jake (shdwflt-+AT+-aol.com)

"JAKE!!!"  Tygriss crouches down and leaps enthusiastically onto him,
rolling him over and over.  "Welcome Back!!  We Missed You!!"

Ele wrote Cen: <...It is about Heyla.  Is it used anywhere else or is it
exclusively a Mistyyish Velgarth term?>

Know something weird?  A few months before I started reading the Velgarth
books (before I even heard of 'em as a matter of fact), I started
greeting people with that phrase.  Think it was clairvoyance?  A
premonition to what was to come?  Or just my mind trying to drive me more
insane? ;)

ObMisty: Guess I need to think of one, huh?  Ummmmm... You know, I've
noticed that no one has any pets, domesticated or otherwise, Heralds or
otherwise.  Does anyone remember any of the books talking about an animal
just kept for the pleasure of it?  And not riding palfreys, I mean fish,
birds, etc.

Ly,
Tygriss-+AT+-juno.com
Priestess of Large Hunter Cats
Lady of the Pink Wand
www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/3418


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:24:42 -0500
From: Rozanna McNeer <rozanm-+AT+-wow.com>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <MERCEDES-LACKEY-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK>
Subject: LHM covers -- FLUFF
Message-ID: <199611272325_MC1-C6C-CDE0-+AT+-compuserve.com>

The God of Obstinate teenagers said:
>In response to another thread I've seen, yes, the cover art on TLHM
>books doesn't _quite_ match my ideas of the characters portrayed
>therin.  On the cover of MPromise, Tashir looks a lot more feminine
>(sp?) than I ever thought of him.  I've seen this on the other two
>books as well.  I mean, characters features being taken to an extreme
>on the covers.  Has anyone else seen this, or is it just me?

Well, those covers have been the source of some of the 'inside' jokes
on the list. Princess Tashira, for one <g>. most of us agree with you, i think. 
jody did render Tashir a bit ... feminine ... IMO that's because Tashir looks
like Talia and Elspeth on the other covers, at least face-wise he does.
Vanyel, on the other hand, doesn't <g>. Another 'inside' joke is Vanyel's
Famous Hair-tonic -- i.e. why does Vanyel's hair on the covers never acquire
any silver from node-bleaching/aging??? answer: Vanyel's Famous Hair-tonic
!!!!! < 5! =)  btw, for newbies, five exclamation marks sneaked in as a 'sign
of insanity' [from Prachett (???)] on the list. so if you see anyone going "look!
5!" you'll know what the heck we're talking about>

see, that's how fluff sneaks onto the list - jody's cover art. it's all her fault! <g>
JK <just kidding> it only ~seems~ that way (giggle)

Firemist

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:36:44 -0500
From: Phoenix <phoenix-+AT+-icom.ca>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: starting all over
Message-ID: <329D16DC.44A0-+AT+-icom.ca>

While everyone is introducing themselves I might as well<BG>

My name is Bruce, I was introduced to Misty's books about five years ago
and have since introduced Misty's books to a few friends<VBG> ... I've
also been introduced to R.A. Savatory(sp) books as well.  I'm
Wiccan/Pagan, I run my own Bulletin Board for the last year.  I just
finished a course as a PC Technician.

May the Lord and Lady always be with you all.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 96 23:55:59 -0500
From: Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: LHM covers -- *NOT* FLUFF..well..maybe.
Message-ID: <9611280501.AA07608-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net>

Well, I think it's time for one and all to experience the magic of cover 
descriptions again. As the Star Wars: Special Edition trailer states: 
"See it again--it for the first time." I'll like...go edit out the 
typoes. Yeah. that's it. brb...wait..dunna need that on email, just 
irc..here we go:


Here ye! Here ye! To show how totally bored I am, I have gone through an 
arduous search for all three LHM's (Pawn was in a suitcase, Price 
shelved, and Promise stuck in a pile next to the computer), and will try 
my best to decipher the people in the main part of the picture, the front 
borders, and the thingies on the back.

Magic's Pawn
     Well, its obviously Vanyel in the center, holding onto Yfandes, 
after he ran into the river after Lendel died.
     Starting from the upper left border:
1. A naked lady chained to a wall who has snakes in her hair: I have *no* 
idea....except maybe....a metaphor for Lendel's mom? Can you tell I'm 
groping?
2. The head who's hiding one of the Nude Lady's breasts: I'd say Withen, 
though he hasn't a nose.
3. Death. Though he bears no resemblance to Shadow-Lover. Maybe Misty was 
thinking of a Pterry cross-over?;>
     Right border:
1. Um....the Hawkbrother guy......one who healed Van, and was there when 
he woke up...used to be Tallo....[Moondance, as I remembered later]
2. Lendel
3. I'd say its Savil, but no Nose...oh I know! In the early drafts, 
*Treesa*'s a mage!;>

Magic's Promise
     Well, its Vanyel, Shadow Stalker, Hero of Stony Tor, Demonsbane, 
Herald-Mage, and *****[Censored] the Mime in his spare time; He's 
defending the girl on the horse; wait, that's supposed to be Tashir. I 
guess in the drafts he was female or something...and that Companion has 
to be Ghost.
     Starting from Left Border:
1. Tashir's Uncle, whose name I forget.
2. Um..someone or other standing at the top of a stairway in the 
palace-place-thingy in Tashir's country (can you tell I need to reread 
Promise?)[--and still do;P]
3. Medren's lute after Van's 'bout with the Lendel's evil Twin, Skippy;P
     Right border:
1. I never knew who this was till Catwoman told me it was Lissa, and 
except for the once-again nonexistant nose, it could very well be her.
2. Withen after plastic surgery? Lores? Jervis? Mekeal? A relative of 
Snake-Woman?
3. Jisa

Magic's Price
     Wel, its Van..I guess striking a melo-dramamtic pose right before he 
Final Strike's, though Yfandes looks like she's just noticed some 
interesting grass or something....
     Left border:
1. The three wizards of Leareth, 'cept these guys look like an 
early-draft X-Files cross over.
2. A grown up Jisa? Triangle Man? One of the Guardians? What Yfandes 
looked like 'fore Companion-hood?
3. The stuff used by the Guardian who was an alchemist....
     Right Border
1. Um...maybe Savil? Or a Hawkbrother? And how come THIS person has the 
silver node-hair, and Van doesn't?
2. Stefen? Jisa?
3. The Palace?


Oh yeah....I forgot backs!

Magic's Pawn:Wyrsa and the Valdemaran Crest
Magic's Promise:Killer Bats and maybe Skippy's crest?
Magic's Price:um....um.....maybe Dark Servants and Leareth's or Karse's 
crest?

Well, maybe that'll help people. And I feel that it has lotsa real stuff, 
and the fluff is more humorous than fluffy;> Gods..I wrote that FIVE 
MONTHS ago!!!!!<--yes, from pterry.

-+AT+-LIDNEROK___________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________KORENDIL-+AT+-
I|Korendil, Knight of the Order of Amber & Marigold and Elfhame |I
C|Sun-Descending, Squire of the High Court, Envoy to Elfhame    |C
U|Misthold, Magus Minor, One In Black,Firstborn Child of Danaan,|U
B|God of Night and All Things Nocturnal, Champion of the Ladies |B
E|of the Pink Wand, Acting Master of Dreams, and Ailurophile.   |E
D|.TEN______________/NAME THE MIME AND DIE!!\_______________TEN.|D





------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:02:42 -0600
From: singer-+AT+-iglobal.net
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Cats in Velgarth
Message-ID: <v01510100aec28412a316-+AT+-[207.43.170.84]>


On 11/27, Tygriss wrote:

>You know, I've
>noticed that no one has any pets, domesticated or otherwise, Heralds or
>otherwise.  Does anyone remember any of the books talking about an animal
>just kept for the pleasure of it?

Mmm, I've always wondered, too.  *Somebody* had to have a cat, or
something. (The world would be lost, without cats and horses :-)  )  Two
references I can recall:  In Magic's Promise, Van is commenting to Randale
that he would not be much of a parent, he can't even keep the palace cats
off his pillow.  And in Storm Warning, when Altra first appears Elspeth
laughs and says something like "Cats.  Who can tell?"  leading me to
believe that she had been exposed to cats somewhere, or at least the Common
Perception of them <makes a face>.  But this is all.  Still, *Somebody* in
Velgarth must have a cat.  This is just one of the many, many things we
don't see in the books.  Like Bards, and theatre, and, and and.............

May Her light be in your hearts and on your paths.


                                Go Gently,

                                        Tresta

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Tresta shena Jor'ethan                          "Love must live free"
Healer to horses                                       -Shin'a'in Teaching
Knight of Amber and Marigold

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

"To be tired of horses is to be tired of life; horses are a gift to us."

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%




------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:35:37 -0500
From: JMACGMAC-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Stef/ Starting over
Message-ID: <961128003537_1252266967-+AT+-emout14.mail.aol.com>

Heather said:
I don't think not being Chosen was a punishment for Stef, for several
reasons.  First off, I just plain don't think of not being a Herald as
*punishment.* Maybe it would be nice to be one, but it can be pretty
damn nice not to be one, too.  Second, I think Stef's "cosmic purpose"
was to be a bard and do all that bardic work Vanyel put him up to, which
may well have saved the Valdemaran government from a crisis situation.
He couldn't do that if he a) wasn't an official, trained Bard and b) was
off riding the border, fit to be picked off at any moment by Karsites.

(Coming out of Lurking mode for this one) I agree. I always had this feeling
that the powers that be told Lendel that, yes, he did kinda goof, but they
forgave him anyway. And then, since he was feeling a bit guilty for leaving
Vanyel, plus getting himself and Gala killed, they gave him a way to "make
up" for it. And since they needed a bard to help Vanyel keep the kingdom
together after Van went to the forest, they made him a bard. I also rather
liked the "turn around" in this. Van wanted to be a bard, Lendel a herald.
Van ended up the herald, and Stef the bard. I thought it was rather fitting.
----------------
I also would like to petition Heather to become a Knight of Amber and
Marigold. I love VAnyel, and I thought he was a wonderful, human person. He
did the very best he could for everyone else and his kingdom, exactly as a
good herald should. He richly deserves the respect. I certainly dont think I
could have done what he did if I was in his position! Or do it with such
grace and compassion!
-------------------
BTW everyone, if this seems out of date, sorry. My email had a problem all
last week, so I only got in small bunches with pretty big gaps. From what I
did get, It looks like I missed alot last week! I'll go read the archives and
see if I need to comment.
_______________
And since we are all formally introducing ourselves:
My name is Julie aka Snowbird, and I'm the goddess of Fields and Fens. I
started reading Misty about 7 years ago. I was stuck in Germany at an army
base and complaining that I didnt have anything to read. So a friend of mine
gave me Arrows saying that he thought I'd like it. I've been a Misty fanatic
ever since. As for the more boring info, I'm married, have 2 kids, ages 6
years and 5 months, and I work for an Insurance Agent. Other than that, my
life is pretty boring. Or course, this list certainly keeps me busy! 

Ok, thats it for me, I'm going back to lurking again.
Take care everyone!
Julie aka snowbird, Goddess of Fields and Fens



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:54:24 +0000
From: myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid: Kory's Sig/voice tone in writing/First Contact Spoiler
Message-ID: <199611280548.XAA27329-+AT+-cdale3.midwest.net>

Kory -- I love your quotes on your sig. It looks *much* better now... esp.
Data's quote! But dang it, I was going to put "Assimilate *this*!" into one
of my sigs... <pout>. Oh well. I'm seeing the movie again this Friday when
we're out of school, and possibly the next day (Saturday). I plan to see
First Contact at least 5 times!

'Nuff with the fluff (hey! I made a rhyme!) Here's some semi-real Misty:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay, about our problems on-list: My oath-sib of a sort (click - whoa!
sort) wrote me in an e-mail as follows:
>>>-just as a little reminder before I really start this letter, I will be
talking about things that may make the letter sound negative, but it must be
taken into account that it is very hard to show through tone of voice that
some things that are bad don't bother you enough to really get mad about and
that when you're telling someone about them you're really just laughing about
it. <<<

See, there it is! It's hard to show tone of voice, you can't see the person
who's saying something, so one can interpret a post a number of ways.
Sarcasm, irony, and tone don't show in writing unless we use really vivid
words, and most of us don't unless we're writing professionally. It's
written conversationally with posts to the lists, usually. Houston, we've
found our problem.

*NOW* here's some real Misty...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well, not yet -- sorry...

FIRST CONTACT SPOILER







Sorry I didn't do one before....









Is that enough?







Maybe a little more...





That seems quite sufficient.
Deniz wrote:
>>><wail> <howl>  How come Beverly didn't get to do that much?  And what
>>>happened 
to her hair?  And what happened to the romance between her and Picard?  We 
know they get married (Generations) (and divorced, but that's painful to think 
about).  Well, at least they didn't try to dress her up in a tablecloth.<<<

Okay, when did they get married? I thought that was in the episode "All
Good Things..." when Q is showing Picard his future. The lady in the Nexus
wasn't Bev. It was someone else, I think.  And her *hair*! Blonde? I liked
it red! And she didn't get much time on-screen as for action. She didn't
serve much of a purpose, in my opinion.








End Spoiler
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fine -- since everyone is introducing himself/herself, I'll do it -- in my
next post (tithe to Mat). ObMisty: How long until Velgarth comes up with
the concept of space travel? Okay, that was lame, but my brain's in FC
heaven right now.Erm... How about this? In Burning Water, Di says "Oh God"
a number of times. But in CotN and JH she says "Lord and Lady." Did her
being in Texas make a difference as to which deity she would appeal?

that's it for now... till I'm Starting Over (BTW, love the version by Reba)

Lots of love, etc.,
Summersong & Spiffy the Cat
***********************************
Akiko Hirao <myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net>
"Tough little ship." -- Riker
"Little?" -- Worf
"You do remember to fire phasers." -- Riker
>From Star Trek: First Contact
***********************************


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:17:42 +0000
From: myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Starting Over Again
Message-ID: <199611280611.AAA29425-+AT+-cdale3.midwest.net>

Since everyone else seems to be starting over, reintroducing each other, I
thought I might follow the trend. I am Akiko Hirao in RL, a 15 year old
sophomore at Cape Girardeau Central High School, the alma mater of the
infamous Rush Limbaugh. Cape Girardeau is on the fringe of the Bible belt,
and all the Christian fanatics are starting to really annoy me. I am around
5'2", Oriental (Japanese to be specific), and I am quite chubby. I have a
tightly knit circle of friends with 5 members including myself. I have a
sort of a oath-sib who lives near Kansas City that I met at summer camp. I
take mostly academic courses and I'm one of the twelve sophomores who take
chemistry. I love to write fantasy and poetry, but never tried a mixture of
both. 

I got hooked on SF by Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game. It is one of my
favorite books to this date, and I read it about four years ago when I was
in 6th grade. My first fantasy novel was the Japanese translation of The
Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, which I first read at the tender age of
8. Then, when I was 13, I officially got hooked on Misty from The
Oathbound. I proceded to read Oathbreakers, BTS, Arrows, LHM; then I read
the Bardic voices books, Winds, and Storms. DT came sometime earlier this
year, in September. My fave authors other than Misty are: Orson Scott Card,
Anne McCaffrey, MZB, C.S. Lewis, Peter David, and Willa Cather (My
Antonia.) My favorite books are: Ender's Game, Magic's Price, Arrow's Fall,
Songmaster, To Kill a Mockingbird, My Antonia, Dragonflight, and ST:TNG:
Imzadi.

I play the piano fairly well, and I made chamber choir as a sophomore
(majority are seniors), so I sing fairly well also. My favorite composer is
Chopin. Popular artists in whom I have taken profound interest are: Elton
John, Billy Joel, Melissa Etheridge, Barbra Streisand, Garth Brooks, Reba
McEntire, and Bryan White (*very* cute country singer). I also like Pink
Floyd and Aerosmith.

I love Star Trek in all of its forms. I especially love Lt. Cmdr. Data from
ST:TNG and ST:Generations and First Contact. Brent Spiner is my favorite
actor, and Kate Mulgrew is my favorite actress. But I really love the
original series as well -- especially Spock. Ol' pointy ears <not you,
Kory!> was so... logical. Hmmm. Data and Spock... interesting combination.
IDIC, dude! 

Ahem. A momentary lapse of reason... I shall recover (what?). 

That's it about me. You'll probably find more about me as y'all get more
used to me. One joke (if you do like Rush Limbaugh, please skip this part):
What's the difference between the Hindenberg and Rush Limbaugh?
One is a Nazi blimp and the other blew up in the '30s.

Sorry. Had to do this. One more thing: I do not yet know what my sexual
preferences are. Right now, I'm straight, but ya never know...

Love and logic, twisted or not,
Summersong & Spiffy the Cat
*************************************
Akiko Hirao <myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net>
"Captain, I believe I am speaking for the whole 
crew when I say this... To hell with our orders!" 
-- Lt. Cmdr. Data from Star Trek: First Contact
*************************************


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 01:15:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
To: Misty Lackey List <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>
Subject: Braid:
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961127230723.16041A-100000-+AT+-copland.udel.edu>

On Sun, 24 Nov 1996, Ele wrote:

> What is haiku, may I ask?

I think that someone already answered this, but here it goes.  Haiku is a
Japanese poetry form.  It consists of three lines of fixed length
(measured by counting syllables) in a pattern of 5-7-5.  There is an
extended form called "tanka" which adds two more lines of 7 syllables
each.  In addition to the purely formal metric requirements, haiku has
other requirements in terms of style and subject matter.  It is a very
dense format and every word (ideally) conveys several meanings on
different levels.  Certainly, one goal of haiku is that as you move from
one line to the next, the meaning of the previous line (or parts of it)
can be reinterpreted in the context of the current line.  Also, haiku's
goal is to capture a sensory moment in the eternal now, so one of the
other limitations is that verbs (when they are present) usually need to be
in a present form or in a non-finite form.

-----EOM/BOM

Then Firemist wrote:

> Sovvan seemed to me to be a cross between thanksgiving/halloween/ and
> the Japanese <? i think?> holiday specifically dedicated to remembering
> the dead (the one with the boats made of rice paper. help? does anyone
> know what I'm referring to?)

The Japanese holiday is o-bon.  And the idea that Sovvan is a combination
of o-bon and t-giving and hallowe'en suggests that maybe, for background
music during Van's scene on the balcony, Loreena's "All Soul's Night"
would be perfect since it is about o-bon and samhain.

> Did I get all the major ones? Fellow Celt enthusiates?

Why just the Celtic ones?  I want to see a Feast of Sacrifice (any muslims
that can remind me of the real name?) and a Feast of the Holy Innocents (I
just like the name *grin*).  And shouldn't Selenay's birthday be a
national holiday?  I have never heard of a monarchy (however enlightened)
where this wasn't the case.

AOh, and in Karse at least, they celebrate Midwinter's as the main
religious holiday.  Remember that Solaris was crowned during the "lighting
of the fires."  I don't know the page number, but it is in SW.  And there
was also the Feast of the Children (in the fall?).

-----EOM/BOM

And then Deniz wrote:

> By the way, Ken, you forgot "cute."  I'm no Cenn, but what the h*ll.  
> Actually, that depends on what kind of cute you mean, Kory.
> Or cute as in good-looking/attractive? I'm not sure on this 
> one.  My slang isn't wonderful.  But there's <<seduisant>> (seductive)
> and<<oh, qu'il est beau>> (for a guy -- he's good looking) or <<oh,
> qu'elle est belle>> (for a girl -- same old)

Hmmmm.  There is also "joli."  BTW, if you want to say that something is
"cute" in a sort of sarcastic way (as in "Oh, *that* was cute!") you would
use something like "malin" (literally: evilish).

> I'm pretty sure Cennydd will correct whatever's wrong in here and give
> you juicier slang.

Well, actually, I am much better at the R and X rated ways of expressing a
reaction to cuteness. =)  Regarde ce mec-la!  Je bande! =)

> Sorry.  I'm one of the guilty parties.  Would it be ok if the next time
> I say something like, "... Cennydd, who is normally an absolutely
> wonderful person, will come after your bones.  But we still love him.

Well, after that last bit of French, don't you think this could be
misinterpreted? =)  Besides, I am just really uncomfortable with the whole
threatening thing.  I have been thinking about the stuff on the list and
what several people have said about the "sheeping" and "running for cover"
comments.  I think that in recent months, all of us on the list have been
contributing to a negative rate of expectation on the list.  We put these
comments in as jokes, but the effect is to create a sense in most readers
(even those who are aware of the joke) that such behavior happens and that
they should be on the watch for it.  In effect, we are priming ourselves
to perceive flames, becoming hypersensitive.  It has been a gradual
progression, but looking back I see that we have sort of been on an upward
trend from the creation of the Drifting Ashes, to the inclusion of more
and more references to ducking for cover, to pleas of "please don't flame
me, but...", to *having* to say TINAF, to saying "if you interpret this as
a flame fine."  I really don't want to see what the next step in the
progression is.  I personally would like to see a concerted effort to
going back to the beginning, where we didn't really mention flames at all
and no-one suggested that you had to run for cover every time you said
something.  

-----EOM/BOM

Then GraceInOne wrote:

> Now, what I am not understanding is why does it seem that a lot of
> people on this list seem to concentrate more on the fact that her
> characters are gay and not concentrate more on their character. 

Well, speaking for myself, I know that the reason I am interested in the
issues of queer identity in Misty's books is that I am a Queer Studies
scholar as well as being gay.  So, I am very interested in the way that
sexuality issues are handled in novels when there is more than
heterosexuality represented.  Since Misty is something of a pioneer in
presented fairly balanced portrayals of gay characters, she will obviously
be a target of much analysis and criticism (the good, literary type).  

-----EOM/BOM

Then on Monday, Ele wrote:

[a lovely snippet of Gibran]

> BTW, are there any other Gibran lovers out there?

Never read him, but that was rather nice.  May I also offer up a timely
verse (from the Rubaiyatt of Omar Kayam)?

	The moving finger writes, and having writ
	moves on, and you may not for all your piety and wit
	call it back to cancel have a line,
	nor all your tears wipe out a word of it.

-----EOM/BOM

Then Woodlark wrote:

> Aaaamen, sistah!  Hey, i know.  Why don't we make "We are Family" the
> List theme song? (get up everybody and sing...)

I thought you just got through saying that many of the people on the list
were straight (most I would assume, actually)?  And now you want to make
one of the great gay anthems our theme song?!?  What up wit dat!? *giggle*
Well, next (if we get through this difficult patch of hurt feelings et al)
we can adopt "I Will Survive"! =)  (BTW, guess who knows this song by
heart? *grin*)

-----EOM/BOM

Then Heather D. Wegemer wrote:

>   I read Mercedes Lackey's _The Fire_Rose_ some time ago.  Later, 
> for totally different reasons, I read Mary Hays'  _The_Victim_of 
> _Prejudice_.

Is there a connection between these two beyond the ones that you
mentioned, Heather?  I thought your essay was very interesting and
insightful, but I was wondering if the connection was just something you
noticed, or whether it was something that Misty put into the book and you
picked up on.

> Ms. Lackey seldom depicts promiscuity in her characters -- while they 
> are in the volume, at least, she likes them to pick one _person_ (two 
> in _really_ special cases like Eric, Bethany, and Korendil).

It may in fact be even more basic.  As Heather (Hth) has pointed out
(along with myself), Misty seems to be uncomfortable with overt sexuality,
particularly when it involves an interaction between men and women.  Given
this, bisexuality would tend to be ruled out since it would be overtly
sexual (as you point out, sexual liaison is one of the key ways of
establishing sexual identity) and would also involve male/female
interaction.  Notice that in the Eric/Beth/Kory triangle, while the
sexuality between Kory and Eric is quite overt, it is played down or takes
place outside the text when it involves Beth (at least, I think so-  
-have only read the first book, but I gather the second book seems to step
back from the topic).  

> If she does not like to depict a person having sexual relationships -- 
> which, if I am not mistaken (and I may well be) forms the core of 
> sexuality

I would certainly agree, but I feel honor-bound to say that there are many
people who would disagree.  There is considerable debate in the field of
Human Sexuality as to whether actual sexual behavior is necessarily the
central aspect of sexual identity.  I think a better way of expressing
what you seem to be saying might be that overt, explicit sexual desire for
a particular gender/sex is the core of sexuality.  This gets away from the
mess of what to do about gay (or str8) virgins.  Or lesbians who will only
have sex with men (I know one personally).

-----EOM/BOM

Then Woodlark wrote:

> We're not asking for a bisexul orgy or love-in.

We're not?  Darn.  Actually, I am fairly sure that one or two of the LotPW
would be interested in this possibility.  =)

> This is another misconception that bisexuals have both sexes in the bed
> at the same time.  Well, honey, "it ain't neccessarily so."

On the other hand, it isn't necessarily *not* so.  I have known several
bi's who dated both sexes concurrently (and at least one guy who bedded
them concurrently).

-----EOM/BOM

Then Akiko wrote:

[re: sovvan and o-bon and costumes for hallowe'en]
> I think so, but I'm really an uncultured kid. I bet Cennydd would know
> more about this than I do <chagrined smile>. 

Oy!  Well, that is a hard intro to follow. =)  However, as far as the
costume question goes, the French custom (according to some native
sources) was originally that children would dress up as a departed family
member as a sort of memorial.  I don't know about the origin of monster
and witch costumes.  I think they may have been from a different cultural
source (possibly norse or Celtic?).

> But I don't know about the boats; I think there is one, though, where
> people float paper lanterns on little boats.

This is O-bon.  It also involves bonfires in the fields (the pictures I
have seen of the O-bon fires on the slopes of Fuji-sama are beautiful).

> There's also another one (March 3) for girls where traditionally, people
> made dolls and floated them out onto the river once that day was over to
> ensure good marriage, fortune, and fertility for the girls of the
> family. I can't really remember what it was... Cennydd?

It is called "Girls' Festival" (I can't remember the Japanese name), but I
think the part about sending the dolls out to see may be regional.  At
least, none of the Japanese women I have talked to mentioned this as part
of the festivities.  In fact, most of them mentioned that the dolls are
collected and accumulate from year to year to be passed down later to
younger sisters or daughters.

[re Adrian Paul as Amberdrake]
> No! He's too macho-looking.

But that is the point.  Amber was "sexy for days"!  Adrian has that same
yummy intensely masculine finger-licking good looks.  And that smile!

> For Hulda: How about... RuPaul? <sheeps from coconuts> Or that chick who
> was on L&C the other day? Y'know, the one who's on Drew Carey?

Eeew!  Mimi?  No!!!!!  Hulda was supposed to be dripping an over-ripe
voluptuous sexuality.  She was not a tall blond black drag queen.   And
definitely, she was not an overweight monstrosity like Mimi.  My own pick
would be Annette Benning or Jane Seymour.  If you have seen "The Grifters"
(for Benning) or "East of Eden" for (Seymour) you will know why.
Seymour in particular was never scarier and more evil than when she was 
playing the lead in EoE.

-----EOM/BOM

Then Glithoniel wrote:

> On the business about purely fictional creations not capable of having
> their own personalities, I have to utterly disagree.  Characters, like
> any living person, have a tendency to change in strange and sometimes
> frustrating ways.

Well, of course, my point was that characters, however we may like to read
them, are not living persons.  They are fictional creations, a textual
position.  A character is not capable of independent thought nor of
personal choice.  Within a reader-oriented theory of textual analysis, we
can say that characters serve as either subjectified or objectified
positions in the text where the reader's own voice can enter the discours
of the novel.  In the reading, we imbue such positions with our own life,
but they are not independently alive.

> Actually, he is a bit paranoid.  But then if you look at Imperial
> society, he's perfectly normal.

This reminds me of one of my favorite sayings: "Just because you are
paranoid, doesn't mean that people aren't out to get you."  Of course, the
corollary is "Just because people really are out to get you, doesn't mean
that you aren't paranoid." =)

> Now, unless you have serious objections, I'd like to add to my sig
> "Elite Clax of the Drifting Ashes"

I have no objections, but I can't remember whether you or Kimber actually
founded the group.  It really seems to be up to the two of you to decide
who gets what title.  My only real worry would be that, if the explanation
of the title ends up being "The DA's are a group of the people who have
been flamed by Cennydd" without some further explanation, it may give
people the idea that I really *do* flame people (I mean real mean-spirited
flames) and that it happens so frequently that a support group for my
victims became necessary.




May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit,

Cennydd,

Kenneth Allen Hyde     |  No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife
Univ. of Delaware      |  between the shoulder blades will seriously
Dept. of Linguistics   |  cramp his style  -- Old Jhereg proverb
kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu         |  A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me

**http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html**


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 01:39:11 -0500
From: Shdwflt-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Voice Inflection / Introductions
Message-ID: <961128013911_1884360964-+AT+-emout08.mail.aol.com>

Summersong was talking about how one can't tell one's tone of voice online,
and that's one of our problems here.

It is.  But it's not an unsolvable problem, mind you... there are plenty of
ways to indicate voice inflection online, by using emoticons ( you know.
 Those :) :* :( :I :S things) or indicators ( <rant> </rant> ) plain words (
*grin* ) or even merely saying something like "I'm being sarcastic here, so
don't take me seriously."  Yes, it's extra work.  But it is a solution.

-------

Introductions:  Well, I see that everyone is reintroducing themselves.  So
here's my two cents worth.

My name is Jake Adamo, and I'm a 22 year old straight Misty fan.  I am a
(soon to be published) author of fantasy, my first book (CITADEL OF FIRE)
going to the publisher again in December for review.  In my spare time, I
sell toys in order to make money to live on. 

Outside of Mercedes Lackey stuff (I like Valdemar best; the Bard's Tale books
and Di Tregarde second.. and SERRAted Edge/Bedlam Bardz least) I enjoy Terry
Pratchett, David Eddings, Tanya Huff, and a lot of TSR based "hack" fiction.
 I'm heavily into Sci Fi also, mainly Hack scifi books (Star Trek/Star
Wars/Dr. Who).  I am a ridiculous Star Wars fan and an almost as bad Star
Trek fan. I am the Vice President of the Staten Island Science Fiction and
Fantasy Association (SISFFA for short.. email me for info on that.).  I'm
also a semi professional musician (done a couple of gigs) and a lot of my
songs ARE humorous, parody works.  However, I have come up with a serious
song or two when the occasion warrants. And I will give my right arm to the
person who finds me an original or first generation copy of KEEPERS OF THE
FLAME by Phoenyx. 

And yes, I took AOL because they have the same rate as my old ISP (who really
sucked.. now I realize why I never knew anyone with a webspan.net domain
name) and better stuff. This is my third regeneration.. Misty humor stuff
online has several addresses, my latest being RYNATH-+AT+-webspan.net (before this
one).

What else.  Ooh. Liststuff: I was named God of Parody and Top Ten Lists /
Avatar of Humor by Lady ThessaIy back in June (for my list humor.. which I am
working on more as I write this.); I am the current Bard Champion of the
Ladies in Green.  My shoe size is 12. I am the keeper of the Mercedes Lackey
Informational FAQ, which will probably be worked on AFTER I finish my book in
December.

*grin* Anything else, email me privately! *giggle* 

Jake (Shdwflt-+AT+-aol.com)


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Nov 96 02:09:09 -0500
From: Korendil <korendil-+AT+-icubed.net>
To: "Misty List" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>
Subject: Brvaes Sharpens His Spoon To Aid Escape Attempts From Attribia
Message-ID: <9611280714.AA12484-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net>

Akiko said:
>Kory -- I love your quotes on your sig. It looks *much* better now... esp.
>Data's quote!

/me mutters in a sing-song voice "She's Obsessed, She's Obsessed, She's 
Obsessed";P Well..sorry:( I changed it...didna' want someone attacking me 
for sig violations too...

>Houston, we've
>found our problem.

I don't agree;> IRC is a text medium, too..never have sarcasm probs 
there..I think its just that we can't as easily ask how they meant it, 
and decide "I'm not gonna wait for 'em to respond; I might lost this 
witty idea rush--so THERE! Take that, lamer! Hah! Hah! En guarde! 
Mwehehehhehehe!" Over active immagination? *never*!;P

> I am around
>5'2", Oriental (Japanese to be specific), and I am quite chubby. I have a
>tightly knit circle of friends with 5 members including myself. 

wow! Same as me...except for gender and ethnic group (I'm a sorta blend 
of eastern europe, except for 1/8th bit of french that I proudly hold on 
to;>), and a slightly smaller circle of friends, most of whom I don't 
even see on a regular basis irl. Otherwise, exactly the same. Except for 
TIP years. Ok. enough;>

>I got hooked on SF by Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game.

I'm *gonna* read that book someday. Maybe after I finish Fionavar <tithes 
to Mat>. Actually, I'm already halfway through Wandering Fire..just I 
have all these books looming up...and a d*mned science thingy to do. 

>Ol' pointy ears <not you,
>Kory!> was so... logical.

Aw...you don't love me, Summersong?;P BTW, whatd IDIC mean? 

>Sorry. Had to do this. One more thing: I do not yet know what my sexual
>preferences are. Right now, I'm straight, but ya never know...

/me decides to agree with Akiko (hmm..if braiding threads jars people, 
does chaning the name used do it, too? BTW..anyone not like me using 
anything but persona names? Cennydd? especially Cen...hey..recently I've 
felt an urge to even use "Kenny"--considering you used to use it in 
Mistylist posts (text evd: "Re: gods on velgarth" from Decmber 12, 
1995)... Summersong?)...I'm relatively sure I'm straight, but I'm not 
gonna say I'm sure. Definitely not. Anyone know any literature or 
anything to help decide that kind of stuff?

Ken said:
>for background
>music during Van's scene on the balcony, Loreena's "All Soul's Night"
>would be perfect since it is about o-bon and samhain.

<g> From the second...Summersong? mentioned the o-bon thingy, I was 
thinking just that;> GOTTA get some new cds soon. "Chan-uk-ah O 
Chan-uk-ah, come give Kor-y mon-ey"...

> And there
>was also the Feast of the Children (in the fall?).

hmm..I always assumed that was the Karsite equivalent of Sovven...

>Well, actually, I am much better at the R and X rated ways of expressing a
>reaction to cuteness. =)  Regarde ce mec-la!  Je bande! =)

Do I want to know?;P sure...traduisez, s'il vous plait

> May I also offer up a timely
>verse (from the Rubaiyatt of Omar Kayam)?

Ooo..I LIKE it, Ken. VERY appropriate. I'm gonna be sure to use that in 
apologies(gods forbid I need to), now..

>I thought your essay was very interesting and
>insightful, but I was wondering if the connection was just something you
>noticed, or whether it was something that Misty put into the book and you
>picked up on.

Hmm. By something she just noticed, do you mean like my theory about 
Pterry = Larry? ;> Really...the fairgrove wossname..pendant, that he 
designed, is an *octogon*, like the color of magic! And then there's 
_Octarine Gryphon_...:P OK. Enough fluff...dunna want to aggravte people 
too much..

>(at least, I think so-  
>-have only read the first book, but I gather the second book seems to step
>back from the topic).  

Ken, put down whatever you're doing, drop your perpetual plans to go out 
dancing, and *GET Knights of Ghost and Shadows*! It rules! Not the best 
o' Misty, but better than..say Silver or WHite Gryphon! <sheeps from 
whoever it was who liked those--humorously> Though, after using this nick 
for 1.5 years, one finds it strange to *read* one's "name"...and it's 
officially my Cat's name.

> it may give
>people the idea that I really *do* flame people (I mean real mean-spirited
>flames) and that it happens so frequently that a support group for my
>victims became necessary.

If only misty wrote as infrequently as you flamed...and put as much into 
it. Your flames are wondrous to read, I have to say. Fabulous, in fact. 
For'shava. "Learn to Snip!"...I still see that in my mind when I think of 
your flames...beautiful prose. Get yer ph.d and then start writing a book 
about Cennydd;>

Jake Who I really Am Sorry To And I Wish Would Respond To Me Said:
>It is.  But it's not an unsolvable problem, mind you... there are plenty of
>ways to indicate voice inflection online, by using emoticons

Ach...but a lot of this particular thread started because of that whole 
long thingy with Austen of mine, and I *did* use 'em. My prob is I use 
'em too much. So people ignore 'em;> See? ;P Also, btw, emphasis 
helps..*'s or _'s or, very very ocaisonally, caps.

>I like Valdemar best; the Bard's Tale books
>and Di Tregarde second

Bard's Tale? *yuck*!:P <sheeps from Jake yet again--btw, folks, this is 
what started the sheep-instead-of-duck thingy. Not the sheep thing, just 
this usage.> :(...you dunna like Bedlam Bards? BTW, everyone, Knight of 
Ghosts and Shadows, SUmmoned To Tourney, and Bedlam Boyz are collectively 
known as Bedlam Bards. Not Bedlam Bardz, and definitely not Bedlam Boyz. 
K?

>for my list humor.. which I am
>working on more as I write this

ooo...hurry! ;> /me want!

>My shoe size is 12.

/me solemnly records this Sacred Piece of Data;>

>I am the keeper of the Mercedes Lackey
>Informational FAQ, which will probably be worked on AFTER I finish my book in
>December.

The book-that-will-be-published-unless-you-get-a-really-lame-editor, 
Jake. I'm bloody well gonna see Citadel of Fire in print one day. I'll 
get home from school, get my email, and see "THEY'RE GONNA PRINT 
IT!!!!!<--" in my email. And a few months later "IT'S OUT!!!!!<--".

Sorry for all the fluff, just..lotsa fluff. It's the usual late-night 
load.


-+AT+-LIDNEROK___________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________KORENDIL-+AT+-
I|Korendil, Knight of the Order of Amber & Marigold and Elfhame |I
C|Sun-Descending, Squire of the High Court, Envoy to Elfhame    |C
U|Misthold, Magus Minor, One In Black,Firstborn Child of Danaan,|U
B|God of Night and All Things Nocturnal, Champion of the Ladies |B
E|of the Pink Wand, Acting Master of Dreams, and Ailurophile.   |E
D|.TEN______________/NAME THE MIME AND DIE!!\_______________TEN.|D





------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 990
*********************************