MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 997 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) more Birthday stuff by freakola 2) Santa Claus/music by "Emily L Cartier" 3) Solaris by Rozanna McNeer 4) Re: music by freakola 5) Santa Claus - no misty! by Rozanna McNeer 6) Um... by DawnRain 7) holidays by "V. Brockmeier" 8) Re: Solaris by Chris & Sean Talbot 9) fresh start (not to be confused with Fresh Step) by "V. Brockmeier" 10) music and St. Nick by "Emily L Cartier" 11) welcomes back (complete fluff) by "V. Brockmeier" 12) My intro by Disney 13) Music etc. by Katherine M Brielmaier 14) Questions for all to answer by Phil Cartier 15) Brvaes Stripped And Forced To Put On Wool Robe by Korendil 16) music by Lady Becky of the Hills 17) Dragon*Con questions by mishi 18) Re: Dragon*Con questions by Korendil 19) Hola, starting over, and other stuff by Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 14:17:46 -0800 From: freakola To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: more Birthday stuff Message-ID: <32A3558A.D6D-+AT+-geocities.com> Well, I hope you just got woodlark's last message announcing our web page. We're working on getting it set up just right. I think that woodlark will do most of her posting from here, and I'll post from the account you are all used to. Anyway, I had more birthday stuff. Lady Nightshade -- Err... I missed your birthday. Sorry. Well, better late than never. Here's an enchanted mirror. When you glance into it, you will meet someone who seems oddly familiar in some way (until you realize s/he's been with you all this time.) Emily Snodgrass -- Happy Birthday! May the birds herald your arrival, and may all your sips of water be sweet! 1-day BIRTHDAY WARNING!!!!! (who didn't get on their computer yesterday?) Lady Reesa's birthday is the 3rd of December. Or at least, I'm assuming that "Deesa" is a typo? While we're at it, here's a preview of the rest of December's Birthdays. 8 Claris Smith 13 Nina 16 Heather ('75) 17 Korendil ('82) 24 Aistes ('77) 30 Rainwood 30 Richard ('52) (rib-+AT+-scanjour.dk) 31 Lady Crysania ObMisty: Do I need one? Ok, I forgot. What's that book that's a collab. and is set in asia(?) and has fire in the title? And who's name would it be at the bookstore under? -- love, deniz sarikaya, High Priestess |"Perhaps today IS a good to die!"-- Worf of Procrastination, Holy Custo-|"You told him about the statue?" -- Riker dian of the B-Day List, and |"I'm a doctor, not a doorstop." -- EHF? Dame of Amber and Marigold. |"Definitely not Swedish." -- Lily dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA |Star Trek: First Contact ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:36:48 -0500 From: "Emily L Cartier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Santa Claus/music Message-ID: <9612022039.AA26468-+AT+-udecc.engr.udayton.edu> Khenta said: >Well, we can always blame it on Coca-Cola, can we not? As one of my >classmates told me today, Santa Claus (Weihnachtsmann to speakers of >German) was an invention of said company. She said originally he was >one of their employees, clad in red-and-white. I do not know >what to think of that, I certainly haven't heard that theory before. All I can say is that, as a Catholic, that's crazy. Don't worry, I'll back it up. I don't remember the exact derivation, but here it goes. Way back in the early Church (after 300 AD but before 600 AD) there was a bishop. And his name was Nicholas. He had this habit of doing proper, bishoply things, like anononymously giving money, food and clothing to people in need (I guess most bishops were too busy doing other stuff, or he did it especially well). And eventually he became a saint, and his feast day is Dec. 6. And it became a tradition to give anonymous gifts on his feast day (possibly as a remembrance of his generosity). IIRC in German, Saint Nicholas becomes Santa Claus and somehow Americans got their traditions screwed up and intermingled, so we turned a nice saint into the Patron of Crass Commercialism and celebrate his feast on the twenty-fifth of December. Note: I celebrate Christmas, but I never did quite realize that Santa Claus didn't exist cause my parents told me it was St. Nicholas who left the gifts... And anyway, who ever heard of Santa Claus leaving the gifts on the hearthstone on Dec 24? And St Nicholas's day was also a biggie. We never get much candy, but on Dec 6, there will be a couple of pieces of candy in our shoes. Woodlark (who _I_ knew was Deniz) said: >well, i've been considering this a whole ton during this past week, >and am proffering my observations. when i hear music, i can see the >colors, taste/feel the texture, and i can feel it somewhere in my body >-- listening to a wonderful singer, i can feel my soft pallet rise, and >my whole throat relax, whereas listening to someone who isn't that >great will give me knots in my throat, stomach, back, wherever they're >probably tense. and i can also feel where they're placing their notes >not by the sound quality, but by feeling it in my head. funny, huh? Neat! I don't get anywhere near that level of information (though I do have texture info coming in thru sight/touch). Do you also control your voice using this information? Actually, I've always thought that having an extra way of interpreting auditory information would be very useful for Bards, and from some of the descriptions of Bardic Magick, it sounds like they do. I've always wondered whether Valdemaren Bards have this kind of ability, but I've never seen textual evidence. The thing is that most of the musicians I know who got further than the basics of how to play their instrument have some way of dealing with auditory input beyond just their (highly trained) ears. Seems silly for Bards to _not_ have it. Unfortunately, we never really get a constant, day to day look at the life of a Valdemaren Bard, and you don't go around talking about stuff like this so people don't think you're crazy (after all, it's not consistant for everyone). I want a story about a Valdemaren Bard who has the Bardic Gift and (obviously) the ability to play well on at least one other instrument besides voice (any fool can learn to sing, it takes talented fingers to learn the others). And I don't want them having adventures where they save Valdemar (though they _could_ act as a spy...) or do much else that is high level and vitally important. This can be our look at how the common people live! I also want a good look at how Bards are trained cause that'll give us our up close and personal look at Valdemaren music. So lets have a tril thats like Arrows for the Bards! Maybe this Bard could live in one of the time periods between Vanyel and Talia (but no hanging around Lavan Firestorm or the current Monarch)... Emily the invisible, who is posting an awful lot today and can't figure out _why_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:47:45 -0500 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Solaris Message-ID: <199612021548_MC1-CA3-8460-+AT+-compuserve.com> emily asked: >Does anyone else remember that red robed priestess that Kero and >Eldan saw in Karse? She had blonde hair and was described as looking >like a flower. She also apparently was able to notice Need. Anyway. I >noticed her when I reread BTS and thought that maybe this was >Solaris. No evidence, she just seemed to fit the basic description of >Solaris and was rather vividly described. If she is indeed Solaris, I >wonder if Kero and Solaris have ever met face to face? or, perhaps more to the point, if Solaris and NEED ever met face to, er, face. Kero certainly must have seen Solaris at close range when Solaris came to Court to meet Selenay... Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 16:31:28 -0800 From: freakola To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: music Message-ID: <32A374E0.6E40-+AT+-geocities.com> Emily L Cartier wrote: > Woodlark (who _I_ knew was Deniz) said: as long as you keep distinguishing us from each other, we're happy. > Neat! I don't get anywhere near that level of information (though I > do have texture info coming in thru sight/touch). Do you also control > your voice using this information? yes. you have to hear it first, but part and parcel with the hearing is the sensation of where you feel it, so if your ear is good enough, it automatically places it in the right place for the textures you are hearing in your mind's ear. i use where i'm feeling the sound to help free and focus my voice and hit the right resonance spots. each vowel has a different place in my head where it wants to go for optimal resonance and focus. when it's not hitting, i think about where i want it to focus, or use a visualization (so i don't overcontrol the muscles) to help move the focus to a more comfortable location. singing should feel easy and free (on top of a strong foundation of support), and it's wicked hard to get that when you're concentrating on controlling the muscles. > Actually, I've always thought that having an extra way of > interpreting auditory information would be very useful for Bards, and > from some of the descriptions of Bardic Magick, it sounds like they > do. I've always wondered whether Valdemaren Bards have this kind of > ability, but I've never seen textual evidence. The thing is that most of > the musicians I know who got further than the basics of how to play > their instrument have some way of dealing with auditory input beyond > just their (highly trained) ears. Seems silly for Bards to _not_ have > it. Unfortunately, we never really get a constant, day to day look at > the life of a Valdemaren Bard, and you don't go around talking about > stuff like this so people don't think you're crazy (after all, it's > not consistant for everyone). i do. but then again, with friends who understand how into music i am, so they tend to be a bit more understanding, i would imagine. > I want a story about a Valdemaren Bard who has the Bardic Gift and > (obviously) the ability to play well on at least one other instrument > besides voice (any fool can learn to sing, it takes talented fingers i object, m'lady! learning to sing without damaging your body and using all of it, etc. is not easy to learn. and the talented fingers is partly from starting from a young enough age. > to learn the others). And I don't want them having adventures where > they save Valdemar (though they _could_ act as a spy...) or do much > else that is high level and vitally important. This can be our look > at how the common people live! I also want a good look at how Bards > are trained cause that'll give us our up close and personal look at > Valdemaren music. So lets have a tril thats like Arrows for the > Bards! Maybe this Bard could live in one of the time periods between > Vanyel and Talia (but no hanging around Lavan Firestorm or the > current Monarch)... yes. i, too, often wish for a book about an "ordinary person." then i say to myself, "well, who would buy it?" then i drop the topic, because it would really be a book just for the people like us who love Valdemar so much we would enjoy "ordinary people," whereas most "ordinary people" enjoy tales of "extraordinary people," and somebody stop me now, please, before i go crazy confusing myself. seeing as this is an all-music post... heck, why not. there's this guy who accompanies one of my choruses and he's really awesome (rocks at classical *and* jazz!), and when i asked him last thursday if he knew Copland's Emily Dickinson Poems, he said he didn't, but sure would like to see them. so we're gonna have a look see tonight! i *love* these songs a whole ton, and would love to do them with an orchestra! rapture! > Emily the invisible, who is posting an awful lot today and can't > figure out _why_ Err... because nobody else is? -- love, free bard woodlark, Acolyte in | "So don't you question my counseling Music and Song, Knight of Amber | technique!" -- Deanna Troi and Marigold, and party to | Star Trek: First Contact deniz's thoughts and computer. | dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:49:45 -0500 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Santa Claus - no misty! Message-ID: <199612021649_MC1-CA0-166B-+AT+-compuserve.com> Emily said all the quoted stuff > And eventually he became a saint, and his feast day is Dec. 6. Hmm. Interesting. The Dutch celebrate this day too. Sinter Klas. on the 5th in holland > And it became a tradition to give anonymous gifts on his feast day > (possibly as a remembrance of his generosity). IIRC in Germany, > Saint Nicholas becomes Santa Claus Weeelll, in Holland, Sinter Klas comes on the 5th and passes out candy. actually his Moor, Zwarte Piet (black Pete), does this (did Saint Nick really have a slave?) throws out bags of candy to everyone. People sit on Sinter Klas's lap but have to listen to Sinter Klas tell him/her (and everyone else present) about something bad s/he did and make up for it by doing something that Sinter Klas tells them to do to make up for it. Also, people receive gifts, but aren't supposed to know who sent them (supposedly Sinter Klas sends them all, but...) These are usually accompanied by a silly poem which hints at what the gift is and pokes fun at the person getting the gift. The gift itself is also supposed to be kinda teasing. e.g. The ideal Sinter Klas gift for someone who just *has* to scrape the last bit of mustard out of the jar is a rubber spatula meant to be used only for scraping the last bit of whatever out of the jar, accompanied by a silly poem about this habit. you also get a chocolate letter, usually the first letter in your name. imagine folks, 450 grams of chocolate in the shape of the first letter of your name! yummy... and kids leave out their wooden shoes for Sinter Klas to leave gifts in. The night before, they put carrots in the shoes for Sinter Klas's horse. If you're a bad kid, there'll be coal in your shoe in the morning So, it's easy to see how Sinter Klas could be confused with Santa Claus - both give gifts in December, not to mention all the other similairities.... holy wow, somebody could do a cross-cultural study of Sinter Klas and Santa Claus folk-lore/traditions for a thesis in anthro or sociology! and work in the Church too (that sinter klas lap thing does seem like confession and absolution, doesn't it?) >and somehow Americans got their traditions screwed up and >intermingled, so we turned a nice saint into the Patron of Crass >Commercialism and celebrate his feast on the twenty-fifth of December. I dunno about you, but I *like* giving presents. I can barely restrain myself from blurting out what I got, or giving them straight away (guess who has done most of her shopping already?) so I can watch people's faces as they unwrap the present. hmm, no misty... sheep Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 15:09:22 -0700 From: DawnRain To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Um... Message-ID: <32A35392.463C-+AT+-geocities.com> I couldn't think of much that was interesting or useful to say, because I've been spending most of the day working hard on my web page and working somewhat less hard on my paper for English and such, so I just thought I'd ask--where might I link to on my page for some real good Misty-related stuff? Where are those profiles again? Where are some neat places that I might draw attention to? Any suggestions will be welcome, and please check out my web page. thanks! Star -- Kris Bailey--Aka MorningStar, NightFire, DawnRain, and names too darn numerous to include in this list. E-mail-- morningstar-+AT+-poetic.com dawnrain-+AT+-geocities.com bv165-+AT+-freenet.uchsc.edu kris.bailey-+AT+-sdoct.com dawnrain00-+AT+-aol.com http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9763 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:39:19 -0600 (CST) From: "V. Brockmeier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: holidays Message-ID: Seems like there were some feasts for the Lady and some other festival parts, and we know they celebrate Midsummer's Eve--Talia bemoaned havng been born on that night because of the hedonism her kin associated with it, and later she decided it was actually a good thing, at least in other parts of the land. Seems like I've gotten the feeling that there are lots and lots and lots of little local things, but very little ( if anyhting) that's "national." And wasn't there something really widely recognized that took place in the spring, some kind of planting holiday or something? --vix ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:44:29 -0500 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Solaris Message-ID: <199612022344.SAA09288-+AT+-nemesis.idirect.com> At 09:02 PM 12/2/96 GMT, you wrote: >emily asked: > >>Does anyone else remember that red robed priestess that Kero and >>Eldan saw in Karse? She had blonde hair and was described as looking >>like a flower. She also apparently was able to notice Need. Anyway. I >>noticed her when I reread BTS and thought that maybe this was >>Solaris. No evidence, she just seemed to fit the basic description of >>Solaris and was rather vividly described. If she is indeed Solaris, I >>wonder if Kero and Solaris have ever met face to face? > >or, perhaps more to the point, if Solaris and NEED ever met face to, er, >face. Kero certainly must have seen Solaris at close range when Solaris >came to Court to meet Selenay... > >Firemist > I always got the impression that that person was killed when the branch dropped down on her head. That is always how I figured it out. Now they would have had to meet because Kero is a chosen who is always in the middle of what goes on. Aistes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:05:30 -0600 (CST) From: "V. Brockmeier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: fresh start (not to be confused with Fresh Step) Message-ID: Well, OK, let's all do intros then, huh? My RL name is Vickie Brockmeier, I go to college at the University of Iowa, though I am originally from Warrensburg MO. I've been reading Misty since my. . . 6th grade year, I think? My first book was Oathbound, and I FAR prefer the Velgarth novels to anyothers. I also read Piers Anthony (look in Demons Don't Dream author's note--that's me mentoined!), Orson Scott Card, William Gibson, Elizabeth Moon, Tad Williams, Umberto Eco, and whatever else I can get ahold of. Including the dictionary. I am a trek freak, and yes I saw First Contact, loved it--but wasn't it a bit too easy to blowe up those Borg ships? I draw, do photography, write. Poetry, usually near-novels in free verse. I have a tremendous amount of respect for those who can express things briefly, because that is a talent I just plain lack. I am owned by thirty or so cats at home, notably Mendacious, Princess of Thieves. I run and play RPGs, especially Rifts and Changeling--never AD&D, for reasons involving an ex-S.O. Ummmmm. My favorite food is dark chocolate. I have a strange concept of karma. I debated for three years in high school and went to state every year; i had to have two friends help me carry all my trophies out to my car. I tend to be kind of a smartass and kind of a guilt-ridden fool, alternately or simultaneously. I identify very strongly with water, as you'll all find out if i ever publish any of my poetry and if you buy the book. I love any sort of intelligent discussion, political, spiritual, literary, whatever--and Wintershard, I'm going to write you back as soon as I get time and rid of this headache--and I have very little patience with drivers. I'm trying to teach myself guitar; i sing soprano, alto, tenor, and sometimes other parts just to see if I can. I do feel like a newbie, and while I don't mind the fluff or inside jokes, I have felt kind of useless here, trying to figure out just what to do with everything and when to do it. I think there is a strong boundary between newbies and the longer-time members, but i kind of expected that. I dunno, this is the only list i've ever joined; seems a bit prickly at times, but not really outrageously so. OH, and here's an OBMisty: does she ever clearly set out the spiritual beliefs of any of her cultures concerning what happens after death? be seeing you. --vix ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:49:46 -0500 From: "Emily L Cartier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: music and St. Nick Message-ID: <9612030052.AA29010-+AT+-udecc.engr.udayton.edu> Woodlark says: >i object, m'lady! learning to sing without damaging your body and >using all of it, etc. is not easy to learn. and the talented fingers >is partly from starting from a young enough age. Well, to me singing was pretty easy to learn (never heard anyone do it really _wrong_ til I was about 10 or so). The niceties like an absolutely wonderful ah, ee, ay, i, oh and oo were harder, but nowhere near as hard as it seemed to be for everyone else. Phrasing is obvious once you know what it is and can read both music and the language you're singing. Range is mostly a matter of practice practice practice. Once you have the basics of voice, all the rest is just polishing cause the only way you can screw your voice up is by trying to sing too much, too loudly. With other instruments, you really do need talented fingers. I know a few flautists who started in 4th grade (ages 8-10) and they range in skill from useless (can't play more than scales) to downright awesome (you throw the music at them 2 days beforehand and they can play it in a concert). These people are all players of at least 5 years of experience. I started piano at an even earlier age and never got much beyond useless, so I don't really think its an age thing. And my dad (who is almost tone deaf) started guitar in his teens and learned to play pretty well. I've never heard of someone who started late in life (after about 25) becoming a total whiz at a musical instrument, but they can learn to play well enough that they can be useful to a choir. But they need the talented (agile, flexible and easily stretched) fingers as well as a lot of practice and sheer determination. That's why I said that any fool can learn to sing. Singing "just" requires practice and determination, no other physical skills required. You may not be someone people would pay to hear sing, but you can learn to sing well. And about "ordinary people", I didn't say that my hypothetical bard does nothing interesting, just that they don't save Valdemar. In fact, saving Valdemar is so common that it's getting _boring_. I'm thinking of something along the lines of _Dragonsinger_ and the other Harper Hall books. Menolly is just a girl who loves music, becomes a Harper, and then writes pop music and goes around listening in corners at parties for "unrest". When you put it that way, it doesn't sound all that interesting, does it? Yet Menolly is my favorite char on Pern. I want this Bard to do ordinary, Bardic things. Get in trouble for singing the wrong song in front of a noble, have someone get jealous cause our Bard is a better musician than they are, go travelling and get rained on, have sore throats, get arthritis.... These are things that happen to musicians that are interesting. The nasty gossip and catfights that go on among a soprano section are unbelievable unless you've been there (Stephie can tell you all about flutes and _their_ catfights). I can think of no greater tragedy for a singer than to have a sore throat and have to miss a performance and I'm sure that Misty can write about _that_. Is all this too much to ask? I said: >and somehow Americans got their traditions screwed up and >intermingled, so we turned a nice saint into the Patron of Crass >Commercialism and celebrate his feast on the twenty-fifth of December. and Firemist said: >I dunno about you, but I *like* giving presents. I can barely >restrain myself from blurting out what I got, or giving them straight >away (guess who has done most of her shopping already?) so I can watch >people's faces as they unwrap the present. I like to give presents too! I just object to the idea that _everyone_ gets lots and lots of _things_ as presents at Christmas with nary a word about Jesus, Mary, Joseph, religious services, family and loving ones friends. All you hear is _things_ and no one ever gets coal on their hearthstone cause they were bad (or in their stocking either). To me the big delights of Christmas are: Midnight Mass (the most gorgeous music and ceremony), staying up late, going to my Confirmation sponsor's house for a visit (sob and moan cause he died), getting off school, and seeing Dad and the dog _all day_. The presents are nice, but not the biggest thing. Easter is pretty much the same way. Religion takes precedence, then the eggs and candy. I also despise the idea of all people are Christian that goes with all the commercialism, and I think that some of the people who aren't Christian would agree. By way of a holiday related ObMisty: Somehow I don't think that Valdemar has a lot of holidays where people all over the country celebrate, and that may be a good thing. The only Collegium breaks I remember were for MidWinter Festival (every culture _seems_ to have some big party around then except the Jews who are a people set apart) and that may well be the only nationwide holiday. That would sort of fit in with the European feel to Velgarth, cause the big party days in the Middle ages were Easter (who wouldn't party after a forty day fast), Christmas and the local revered saints' days (I dunno about Pentecost, but I kinda doubt it was especially big back then cause it's a Sunday). The local revered saints weren't consistent across the whole continent at all. Hmm. I managed to relate both things to Misty. Pretty good huh? Emily the invisible ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:41:07 -0600 (CST) From: "V. Brockmeier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: welcomes back (complete fluff) Message-ID: (yes, in the plural) Just wanted to welcome back all the prodigal (sp?) listsibs--perhaps all is setting itself right, yes? Now maybe we can all just start moving in one relatively cohesive direction. Or something like that. So, welcome back to Kory, to Jake, and to the fair Lady Windsong. You were all sorely missed. I bless each of you with a sparkling wash of purifying water from a stream in the Canadian Rocky Mountains to clear away any remaining bad feelings of any sorts. In fact, I think I'll extend that to the whole list. Ahhhhhh.. . . There. Is that better? btw, could someone send me offlist a brief synopsis of what the magewars thingie is all about? Do i want to join this list too? --vix, Goddess of Water ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 19:03:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Disney To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: My intro Message-ID: <01ICJMY5DPJC007F8K-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU> Well, everyone else is doing re-intros, and although I'm just a lurker for the most part, I felt kind of lonely...So, I figured I'd do one too. *grin* My real life name is Jen Specie, and I go to Drake University in Des Moines Iowa. I'm from Tennessee most recently before college. I'm pretty much a computer addict, cause between misty-mail, I play on a cool computer game called Fiery (if you're into RPG type stuff, the address is fiery.com 4000) and that's where I met my boyfriend. It's a long distance relationship, but hey, that's what the computer is for. *grin* Here on the list, I'm kinda sorta more known as Disneyworld, cause that's my fiery name. (I'm a HUGE disney-holic ) I'm also the High Priestess of Sensitivity under Wintermoon. I read Misty, Koontz, McCaffery, King,etc...a lot of variety, though I am constantly re-reading Misty books. And I still want _Storm Breaking_!!!!!! I just now finished reading _Storm Rising_ and now would like to see where it's going. :) I did have an ObMisty, but I completely forgot it when I realized that today is December 2. I had a paper due today for a class I slept through, and didn't even think about it cause I thought December 2 was Friday for some reason. And since my grade in that class isn't the best as it could be, I'm somewhat in a panic...So, I better go finish it and turn it in tomorrow *cry* So, I'm off... Jennie/Disneyworld "Disneyworld" worshipper of the Mouse All HAIL the MOUSE! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:50:00 -0600 (CST) From: Katherine M Brielmaier To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Music etc. Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Emily L Cartier wrote: > Woodlark says: > >i object, m'lady! learning to sing without damaging your body and > >using all of it, etc. is not easy to learn. and the talented fingers > >is partly from starting from a young enough age. > Well, to me singing was pretty easy to learn (never heard anyone do > it really _wrong_ til I was about 10 or so). The niceties like an > absolutely wonderful ah, ee, ay, i, oh and oo were harder, but > nowhere near as hard as it seemed to be for everyone else. Phrasing > is obvious once you know what it is and can read both music and the > language you're singing. Range is mostly a matter of practice > practice practice. > Once you have the basics of voice, all the rest is just polishing > cause the only way you can screw your voice up is by trying to sing > too much, too loudly. > With other instruments, you really do need talented fingers. I know a > few flautists who started in 4th grade (ages 8-10) and they range in > skill from useless (can't play more than scales) to downright awesome > (you throw the music at them 2 days beforehand and they can play it > in a concert). These people are all players of at least 5 years of > experience. I started piano at an even earlier age and never got much > beyond useless, so I don't really think its an age thing. And my dad > (who is almost tone deaf) started guitar in his teens and learned to > play pretty well. I've never heard of someone who started late in > life (after about 25) becoming a total whiz at a musical instrument, > but they can learn to play well enough that they can be useful to a > choir. But they need the talented (agile, flexible and easily > stretched) fingers as well as a lot of practice and sheer > determination. That's why I said that any fool can learn to sing. > Singing "just" requires practice and determination, no other physical > skills required. You may not be someone people would pay to hear > sing, but you can learn to sing well. I tried and tried, but I just can't cut all that down! Speaking as a flautist with "talented fingers" (not to blow my own horn ;> or anything, but I have documented proof), I can agree with most of what Emily says here. Except, speaking as someone who cannot sing if her life depended on it, I do believe that there's more to vocals than "any idiot can sing". I must be an idiot then. ;) Playing the flute, or any other instrument, is not just a matter of innate talent and flexible fingers. To paraphrase your comments about voice, the basics are easy. After that, it's a matter of practice practice practice and as much polish as you can put on it. You're not born with agile fingers---you develop them, through constant practice, finger-strengthening exercises, and different techniques. Much the same way you work the muscles involved in singing. These skills can be learned, if you work hard enough at it. I suspect that some of those people who you call "useless" simply don't practice enough to get anywhere. Flute playing is a bit different from other instruments in that it is relatively easy to learn, but once you reach a certain level, it is pretty darned difficult to get any better. That's where dedication and workin' those fingers comes in, along with musicality for the phrasing and a good ear for intonation. After a while, your fingers are almost negligible. When you play often enough you forget about them completely. Looking at an A-flat I don't think "Well, this finger goes here and that one goes there and that other one messes around over here." I think "Oh, A-flat." and my fingers just do it without me having to think about it. In fact, I think that is where that flute-playing-plateau is: the leap from thinking in finger patterns to thinking in notes. If you can't make that jump, you'll never get anywhere (case in point: a very good student of mine will probably never get beyond that level--usually after the second or third year of playing--because she's still thinking in finger-patterns, and she can't seem to get past it. Technically, she's quite good for her age, but it's not likely to get anywhere, and that is a tragedy.) The voice is a musical instrument, just like any other. It takes superior muscle control, constant practice, dedication, musicality, and a good ear. There is just as much mechanics involved in forming words properly so they'll be clearly understood, in phrasing music so it is flowing and beautiful, as there is in getting the fingers right in a piece by Ganne or Mozart. People do pay to hear me play, and it's not because I was born with talented fingers. It's because I've worked like hell to make the most of those fingers, just as vocalists work like hell to make the most of their voices. Good lord, would you look at me preach? Sorry, Emily! It's just so much fun for me to pontificate about something I really know! > And about "ordinary people", I didn't say that my hypothetical bard > does nothing interesting, just that they don't save Valdemar. In > fact, saving Valdemar is so common that it's getting _boring_. I'm > thinking of something along the lines of _Dragonsinger_ and the other > Harper Hall books. Menolly is just a girl who loves music, becomes a > Harper, and then writes pop music and goes around listening in > corners at parties for "unrest". When you put it that way, it doesn't > sound all that interesting, does it? Yet Menolly is my favorite char > on Pern. I want this Bard to do ordinary, Bardic things. Get in > trouble for singing the wrong song in front of a noble, have someone > get jealous cause our Bard is a better musician than they are, go > travelling and get rained on, have sore throats, get arthritis.... > These are things that happen to musicians that are interesting. The > nasty gossip and catfights that go on among a soprano section are > unbelievable unless you've been there (Stephie can tell you all about > flutes and _their_ catfights). I can think of no greater tragedy for > a singer than to have a sore throat and have to miss a performance > and I'm sure that Misty can write about _that_. Is all this too much > to ask? I'd love to see something along those lines. Everybody we meet is either noble, Chosen, a fighter, a mage, a horse, a Really Fantastically Interesting Person Just Because He/She Is. I'd kinda like to see a story about someone who *didn't* have amazing gifts or is a Chosen of the Gods or somesuch. Some nice, normal, ordinary, person who gets to have an adventure even though he/she was not Gifted At Birth with something extraordinary. For someone who states in her novels that she doesn't like Glorious Destinies, ML sure likes characters with Glorious Attributes. Query: At the end of Arrow's Fall, Talia looks at Elspeth and murmurs "'The Caring Heart'" The quotation marks show she is obviously quoting something. What the heck is she quoting from? Was I stupid and missed it? Help! 's e do bheatha, Kaatje Acolyte to the Goddess of Music and Song, Keeper of the Librettos Knight of the OAM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:07:11 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Cartier To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Questions for all to answer Message-ID: <199612030207.SAA10057-+AT+-greece.it.earthlink.net> Okay I have decided on a few quetions for everyone to give me answers to. Just so you know I am asking these questions out of pure unadulterated curosity. 1.) What is this thing you people have with sheep? ( it is rather annoying not knowing what it means when others give out sheep.) 2.) What is the statute of limitations for spoilers?, and What *are* spoilers, come to think of it? Last of all 3.) What's the Mage Wars?( I have already looked at Lady Jaguar's site so don't tell me to look there.) Sorry about this one thing I forgot to ask. 4.) Tell me what it is you people have with birthday presents. Also there is one December b-day you forgot or mabey on one told you the 29th is Mary's b-day (don't forget. She hates when people forget). Just so you know you really don't have to answer all the questios. Stephanie Oh, I really must say this. Stop the Sanity ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 96 21:19:54 -0500 From: Korendil To: "Misty List" Subject: Brvaes Stripped And Forced To Put On Wool Robe Message-ID: <9612030225.AA04331-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> Woodlark asked from their new addy: >ok. er... is there a public transportation system set up in Valdemar >yet? Well, we know they have good roads...and, iirc, the Compass Rose gang was considering steam-engine cars...and the k'leshya have the barges, which might become popular.. Khenta suggested that: >Well, we can always blame it on Coca-Cola, can we not? As one of my >classmates told me today, Santa Claus (Weihnachtsmann to speakers of >German) was an invention of said company. She said originally he was one >of their employees, clad in red-and-white. I do not know what to >think of that, I certainly haven't heard that theory before. Well..I happened to, after reading that message, find myself in possesion of a Christmas Coke Can. It said that an artist working for them had created, in the 30s-60s, a lot of images for advertisesments of Santa. So I doubt they created him... Aistes said: >I always got the impression that that person was killed when the branch >dropped down on her head. That is always how I figured it out. But no...recall that the priestess led the hunt against Eldan and Kero until they parted paths...iirc, she traced 'em through Need...but that priestess seemed...evil? Sehpanie asked: >1.) What is this thing you people have with sheep? ( it is rather annoying >not knowing what it means when others give out sheep.) Um...it's just a *thing* we have;> It started, I'll give you a hint, with discussing agriculture and farming type stuff in Valdemar, iirc. (That right, Mel the Goddess of Dig--erm...Socks?;P) >2.) What is the statute of limitations for spoilers?, and What *are* >spoilers, come to think of it? Spoilers are..well...say you haven't seen a movie yet. And someone goes ahead and tells you exactly what happens, when you don't want them to. Same thing with books. For various reasons, many people can't get new books the second they come out (the poor deprived souls)...so until the book's in paperback, or 6 months have passed, we use spoilers. >Last of all >3.) What's the Mage Wars?( I have already looked at Lady Jaguar's site so >don't tell me to look there.) Well...Jag's page should explain it. If it doesn't, check Becky's. I know her's has links. >4.) Tell me what it is you people have with birthday presents. We're just nice people;> -+AT+-LIDNEROK___________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________KORENDIL-+AT+- I|Korendil, Knight of the Order of Amber & Marigold and Elfhame |I C|Sun-Descending, Squire of the High Court, Envoy to Elfhame |C U|Misthold, Magus Minor, One In Black,Firstborn Child of Danaan,|U B|God of Night and All Things Nocturnal, Champion of the Ladies |B E|of the Pink Wand, Acting Master of Dreams, and Ailurophile. |E D|.NET______________/NAME THE MIME AND DIE!!\_______________TEN.|D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:47:14 -0800 (PST) From: Lady Becky of the Hills To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: music Message-ID: =09Well, about the discussion about how we percieve music, I=20 generally tend to percieve from a dancer's point of view. I find my self=20 choreographing everything I hear, thinking "Wow, a grand jet=E9 would look= =20 great there! Or, that would be a great song to do a lyrical dance to"=20 I can envision people dancing to it in my head. I can't stand still, when I hear music, I have to dance (ballet, tap, and= =20 jazz dance, not that funky social dance stuff that I just can't do :)) If it is piano music, I will percieve it as if I'm playing it on the piano. *--------------------Lady Becky of the Hills--------------------* |Goddess of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereals | |Handmaiden of Procrastination | |Lady in Green | |Founder of the AftPoSWT (confused? Just ask.) | |Mailing List Homepage http://www.psnw.com/~deb/becky/misty.html| |beckyanne-+AT+-iforge.com | *---------------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 22:35:44 -0500 From: mishi To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Dragon*Con questions Message-ID: <32A3A010.616A-+AT+-prolog.net> Heyla all! I'm posting this to both the Misty and LOPTW list. I'm going to the Dragon*Con (hopefully) and I just wanted to ask I few questions. PLease answer in private e-mail at mishi-+AT+-prolog.net - if that one doesn't work mishi-+AT+-ptd.prolog.net (cursing her stupid server - won't tell me when they are going to change to new e-amil addys) 1.) I saw in the Dragancon homepage something about they do special things for fan clubs. Are you all registering as a fan club or anything like that? 2.) Does everyone already have a hotel room? If not I am willing to split the costs of one. I'd like to stay at the Hyatt but I can't if I have to pay for the room alone - I'm going to end up at another hotel/ 3.) How many of you are goning to the dinner? 4.) Are you all really going to have a misty filk sing or whatever you were calling it? 5.) Are any of you planning to do things outside of the con? I think that's it. Thanks for your help. If anyone thinks of anything that I should know, please let me know. Love, luck, and lollipops all!! Mishi, Goddess of Hyperness and Overbubbliness, Lady of the Pink Wand P.S. I always thought the sheep thing had something to do Jervis, just a thought ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 96 23:19:39 -0500 From: Korendil To: Subject: Re: Dragon*Con questions Message-ID: <9612030425.AA07395-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> Ok..I have some moe I wanna add to what mishi said;> I think we should get a cohesive, current, running list of Who Is Going To Dragon*Con. THat way we can plan all these neato activities we should do. To add on to the massive pile of stuff I'm Going To Do When Mat Gets Enough Tithes...Mage's Own Companion, Covers, Lady of the Pink Wand Culture and Entertainment ChairElf...and now Dragon*Con List. Unless someone's doing it already. ObMisty: What do we actually know about the Heraldic, Bardic, and Healer Circles? Misty seems to have them pretty well planned out, but what has she told us? -+AT+-LIDNEROK___________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________KORENDIL-+AT+- I|Korendil, Knight of the Order of Amber & Marigold and Elfhame |I C|Sun-Descending, Squire of the High Court, Envoy to Elfhame |C U|Misthold, Magus Minor, One In Black,Firstborn Child of Danaan,|U B|God of Night and All Things Nocturnal, Champion of the Ladies |B E|of the Pink Wand, Acting Master of Dreams, and Ailurophile. |E D|.NET______________/NAME THE MIME AND DIE!!\_______________TEN.|D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:51:21 -0800 (PST) From: Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Hola, starting over, and other stuff Message-ID: Here's the real Subject: line... apology / lapdogs / Companions meddling / Bard stories / vrijdag / Ware & bi bi lulloo lullay / evil teachers / starting over / Keepers of the Flame ****** O Great Listmistress Mel, I do most humbly apologize if any of my digests got bounced back to you; I really had thought I'd taken care of my disk quota problems. And if anyone tried to write me privately after Nov 25 but before today, sorry, but I didn't receive it. ****** Treesa didn't need a lapdog, she had Vanyel and the fosterlings. :P. ****** On the thread of Companions (not) meddling: it may be that they have instructions not to meddle and just can't translate that into useful & consistent policies that explain what "meddling" means. As for Yfandes meddling with Vanyel's personal life, which she seemed to do rather a lot of for someone who isn't supposed to intervene, I just had a brainstorm: Remember her telling Van that Tashir's Companion was a Mindhealer? Van kind of goes "Wha...? A Companion Mindhealer?" and Yfandes says, ":It happens from time to time,: she interrupted, the overtones of her mind-voice telling him clearly that she was very reluctant to speak of it. :It happens when it is needed...[changes the subject]:" (MPromise, p188, yay, I have my books with me!) Could Yfandes have had some small Gift of that nature? It would explain her forwardness, and still make her "Sorry, I overstepped myself" comment (after she chides him for leading on women/girls who have crushes on him) plausible, since at that point she was getting pretty pushy even for a Mindhealer. ****** For a Bard-in-Velgarth story, I'd like to see something along the lines of Bard Chadran's adventure where he talks his way into the bandits' gang and then frees himself & their prisoners. Or any adventure of the sort alluded to when Stef is described as a hero of a few ballads himself. ****** Firemist wrote that since "vrij" is 1st pers singular conj of "to make love", vrijdag might be sex day. Then Khenta said that Friday is derived from Freya, norse goddess....Isn't Freya the goddess of love? So it could still be sex day . ****** Re the demon in _If I Pay Thee Not In Gold_ (that is the one y'all were talking about, right?), iirc, s/he seemed heterosexual to me. I know, s/he *does* have concurrent relationships with a male and a female (and I give Misty no responsibility for the broad outlines of the story & milieu, since in the Afterword, it states that Piers Anthony wrote the plot), but it seemed pretty clear to me that the demon in male form desired *only* wossername, while the demon in female form desired *only* wossisname. Although the demon's two selves were pretty similar, they seemed to be seperate people. I feel a need to state why I'm going on and on about the subject, because I *do* agree with the people who feel that the characters' sexual identities are not very important. Frequently I think that this whole concept of sexual identity is a bizarre illusion (it makes sense that people would have "preferences," "orientations," or whatever you want to call it, but it seems odd that we would think this has a pervasive relationship to the core of a person's selfhood, more pervasive & important than, prefering any other thing over something else). The thing is, I can't ignore it, because it's a political category, and to some people a moral one, regardless of whether or not it's important in the scheme of things fictional. Misty wrote some shaych characters and made us see them as *people*, not simply representatives of a category, and that is political, because a lot of political choices are grounded on whether we see people as a bunch of individuals who can be categorized in certain ways, or as representatives of distinct categories. I think Misty's point is that it is inhumane to view some people as people (meaning, complex and sometimes surprising) and others as stereotypes, so she tries to write all of her characters as people, and in some cases fails. And that's why the bisexual thread came up: She seems to have failed with one whole category of people. Now I think I've said everything I want to say on the topic, so I probably won't harp about this again. ****** Lady Becky: about the D on your essay... your teach isn't just stupid; your teach is Evil. ...er, maybe I shouldn't fly off the handle on that, but after *way* too much exposure to Evil Teachers I've gotten rather hair-triggered on the subject of education in general... ******* Well, since I'm talking about me anyway, I might as well introduce myself--never did that in the first place. Listpersona: Lee, a small striped cat, Knight of the OAM. RLname: Lee (except to blood relations, who still call me by my first name, yuck). Age: 21. Sign: Leo. Occupation: student. Joined the list a month ago and jumped into the conversation on my second day. I must not have made too much of a nuisance of myself because I was in no way toasted by anyone. I wrote a bio, and it doesn't seem to be on the site yet, but I'll try to mostly stick (hooray for split infinitives!) to things you won't find on the bio... I'm working on a book. Two, actually. For a long time I emphatically disavowed any claim to Poet-ness in my soul, but a few months ago I dragged out an old notebook and discovered that I've been Lying to myself all along. Very weird. When I'm not freaking out about school, I can usually be found reading, writing, daydreaming, or making weird jokes with my friends. There are other authors I read just as compulsively as the obvious, and I'm really looking forward to More Good Things from Daniel Keys Moran, David Feintuch, Tanya Huff, Mickey Zucker Reichert, etc, (not to mention all the authors whose already-published works I'll read more of When I Have Time, Ha Ha!, such as GGKay, Cherryh, and Pterry), but I only count myself a FANatic of Misty. Other stuff I'd like to do When I Have Time, Ha Ha!: Re-learn the Arte of classical fencing. Master a musical instrument. Learn how to develop film; study photography. Build a house based on the sketches I've drawn up. Expand my knowlege of various genres of music, such as opera & punk. Learn lotsa stuff about linguistics. Mentor a young person. Learn about graphic design. Get better at HTML; get involved in web publishing. Pilot a helicopter. Read more of the influential books in sf & f. Go to conventions. Teach people to *think* about what they say to kids. Write something seriously scholarly. Get published (for a living). Read Wittgenstein. While I'm at it, why not throw in "Win the Lottery" and "Make the world a better place"? ****** Jake--you're interested in Phoenyx's "Keepers of the Flame"??? I think I have it...at my parents' house in another city (to which I shall return on the 16th or sooner). IIRC, my sister & I got it (an original, not a copy) at a RenFaire several years ago and only listened to it a few times... What was that about your right arm? be well, everyone. --Lee-- 97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu -- www.geocities.com/Athens/4709/ "What time is it?"--Dekker, P. / Knight of the OAM, Spreader of Humor, Self-Appointed User of 5-point Vocabulary Words Such As "Panegyric" ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 997 *********************************