MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1011 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Brvaes Accused of Stealing Idea of Attribs & Selling For Profit by Katherine M Brielmaier 2) X-Men/NakedWomen/ by tygriss-+AT+-juno.com (Sara A Youngblood) 3) Re: X-Men/NakedWomen/Oh yah, intro. by Morgana 4) Bondbirds/Taver by Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com 5) Rris/Elspeth/Lysistrata by Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com 6) gambit/naked woman/huff/reichert/Taver by Mat the Cat in Green 7) bye for now by lightstorm-+AT+-juno.com (Michelle N Reis) 8) Re: Bondbirds/Taver by Disney 9) Re: X-Men/NakedWomen/Oh yah, intro. by Hades16-+AT+-aol.com 10) Reply to: reichert by Rozanna McNeer 11) metallica/huff by Mat the Cat in Green 12) not a lot - POs (tm) / Huff by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 13) ordinary by "Emily L Cartier" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 12:22:24 -0600 (CST) From: Katherine M Brielmaier To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Brvaes Accused of Stealing Idea of Attribs & Selling For Profit Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Dec 1996, Korendil wrote: > Kaatje said: > > And, if I might also make bold to > >presume upon thee with the common tongue of my birth, as this elevated > >language lays weary upon my mind, > > Actually, all the "thee" and "thou" stuff *is* the "common" or informal > form...it's like tu in french....Ken can say this all better, though;> So > when you use "you," you're being formal.... You don't say....it sure seems like that's all been turned around in its usage today... I must confess that I often have to skim posts, so I've missed a lot of the thee and thou stuff. That would explain why when Dirk spoke to Talia in his native dialect (is that a true dialect?) he used thee and thy and whatnot. > > vix said: > >Well, i was kinda thinking of a Blue or maybe just some sort of hanger-on > >who really, really, really thiunks s/he belongs in that saddle. > > I dunno...I don't think I'd like to read that story. The person would > hafta be pretty dense--maybe a minor character in a novel, or a short > story... I think it's a good idea, but it sure would be difficult to pull off. I mean, we're all pretty conditioned to assuming that the main character is wonderful, bright, brave, special, talented, funny, ad nauseum. Not to say that they're *perfect*, but usually there's something nifty about them, otherwise why would there be a novel in the first place? Unless of course they're totally average and something really amazing happens to them--which is something I'd like to read. Anyone? Have you read *fantasy* (not real-world) novels about Perfectly Ordinary (tm) characters? I'm trying to think of one, but I can't. Of course, this may not be my fault, because I'm so drugged up on DayQuil right now that I feel like I'm wrapped in cotton. (Got a Bad Cold). 's e do bheatha, Kaatje Acolyte to the Goddess of Music and Song, Keeper of the Librettos, Knight of OAM, who sounds like a frog and took a bio final while high on cold medicine. (Yeah! The genetic probability of that disease is One in 63,932! Sure! Sounds great! Moving on to question 2!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 14:38:26 EST From: tygriss-+AT+-juno.com (Sara A Youngblood) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: X-Men/NakedWomen/ Message-ID: <19961209.133649.8015.0.Tygriss-+AT+-juno.com> Lady Jaguar writes: >The part I never understood was, why does Moonstar need a bow to shoot her psi-arrows? Physical crutches like that are baaaaad. Danielle Moonstar is Cheyenne and using the bow is her expression of her Native American heritage, from what I've read. Please don't ask me for textevd because my comix are 150 miles away in storage. WAAAAAH! :( >Or, here's an image... Skif turning into a Valdemaren Gambit! Augh! >"O'course, p'tite.." to Talia... AUGH! And just what is wrong with Gambit? Other than he is a scoundrel, a womanizer, a thief, a.... wait a minute.... Oh, well, I still like him anyway, just wouldn't wanta date 'im. I'll let my cousin have him. And Lady Jaguar also asked: >And WHAT is with the naked woman on the cover?? There's a naked woman on the front of my copy (both, actually) of MPawn. Her hair is supposed to hide everything but you can still see public hair. I take it this is our beloved St. Melenna? Ooooo, and it bugs me that I only have the silver foil for the first two of LHM and not the last. Does someone want to buy my second set of LHM? They're kind of worn but still in good condition. E-mail me privy. Kaatje (hope you feel better soon, sweetie) was asking of anyone had read any *fantasy* novels about Perfectly Ordinary folks. I saw a series of books this weekend about a woman veterinarian who somehow got a book that lets her travel to a magickal Crossroads and she helps heal all these mythical animals and people. For the life of me, I can't remember the author's name but it was a "he" and towards the end of the alphabet. And it had "Crossroads" in the title. If someone knows anything about that, please help!! It looked pretty good to me. I want to start reading Tanya Huff but don't know where I want to start. Same with Mickey Reichert. Suggestions? Tygriss P.S. Please, everyone say a little prayer for my grandmother who has been having small strokes lately because of a blocked artery in her neck and she is going to have surgery on the 11th. We're not real sure she'll make it. Thanx. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 12:05:10 -0800 (PST) From: Morgana To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: X-Men/NakedWomen/Oh yah, intro. Message-ID: Gambit? Not like Gambit? You mean! Now on to what I really wanted to talk about. I think it was Tygriss? who wanted to know about Crossroads? :) Well. I like 'em! :) Good books. They is called The magic and the Healing, Under the Healing Sing... and The Healing of Crossroads by Nick O'Donohoe. Very good books. Now cause I've been so.... unseen, I'll intoduce meself. I think someone was wonder who was what of Godhood, well, I'm the one in charge of things unseen, like me. :) My name is Carrie MacDonald, I'm 21 (august 18), and live in Santa Cruze, Califonia, USA. I read /alot/ listen to music, read comics, and play White Wolf. :) Well, anway, time to hide again. Morgana, Goddess of Things Unseen and depressed student of the hectic lifestyle ** As I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take. Hush litte baby, don't say a word, and never mind that noise you heard. It's just the beasts under your bed, in your closet, and in your head. ** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 16:52:53 -0500 From: Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Bondbirds/Taver Message-ID: <961209165046_873599393-+AT+-emout15.mail.aol.com> Tricia wrote: >>just commenting on the lysistrata thingy... i know there were a LOT of innuendos, and i want to know if anyone else caught them, or i just have a sick twisted mind and made them up.<< You weren't imagining things. Aristophanes makes Shakespeare look positively puritanical. You know once upon a time they kicked out a drama professor at USC (university of South Carolina) for costuming that play authentically -- complete with the "enhancement devices" to make plain the men's acute distress from the bedroom strike. Its amazing what drama professors will tell a small group of upper classmen. ******* Jake wrote on Bondbirds weaker links due to size: >>*pout* Does that mean that a small person emits less emotion than a big person? I know us large people have a whole lotta love, but still, is intensity of emotion related to size? Or did you mean something else?<< I've always thought the smaller theory rested on brain size. Lets face it, only so much gray matter can be crammed into a head as small as a birds(even hulking bond-birds). Thats why the raptors tend to be smarter. Now a Companion has a much larger brain mass, therefore more intelligence. ******* Heather asked: >>If people can get rigid and inflexible, why can't Companions, just one time?<< Ah, but they were when Gwena and company were herding Elspeth down their personally planned predestined path. Unfortunately by making them spirits of light, unless you have a war in heaven and get Fallen Guardian Spirits, they are always going to be good and just. Ain't it sickening? ******* Emily asked: >>Could everyone please pray for me (or do your religion's equivelent)? I'm starting to get some kind of lung infection and feeling truly awful.<< Lung infections are nasty things. Keep warm and coughing up the gunk is good. Its a horrible feeling when you can hardly breath. Get well soon!!! ******* I've discovered a discrepancy! In the Arrows trilogy, it very clearly states on several occassions that the Monarch's Own Companion is always Roland. Well, while I was searching for the passage concerned in the now defunct treaty discussion, I discovered the following passage: "Jisa hadn't been Chosen because her Companion would be Taver, and Taver was the Companion to the King's Own, Jisa's mother Shavri." (Magic's Price p 12) Naturally, my first reaction was an overlooked error. It happens sometimes. So I cross referenced back into Magic's Pawn since I knew that there was mention of the MOC (monarch's own Companion) around where 'Lendel is repudiated. Well folks, Taver was no typo. "But once in the saddle, he [Lancir] resumed the strength and dignity of a much younger Queen's Own -- the man he had been twenty years ago. Taver tossed his head, and walked with calm and quiet steps toward the shocked, confused mob of Leshara at the other end of the Garden." (Magic's Pawn, p 203) Where did Taver come from? I'm sure I've seen the name else where but it just won't come. At first I thought it might be the previous MO from Arrows but that was Talamir. I also thought perhaps Taver was one of the orginal three Companions. He isn't and neither was Roland. Oh well, I'm just picking nits anyway. Take care everyone! Glithoniel Goddess of Tardiness Lady of the Pink Wand Mistress of Willowhawk (in exile) "And out of the sky came a broomstick with two screaming wizards on it." --T. Pratchett ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 16:53:54 -0500 From: Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Rris/Elspeth/Lysistrata Message-ID: <961209165036_1555238944-+AT+-emout09.mail.aol.com> Mylee asked: >>I know, um, whatsisname had a hertasi with him, but why couldn't a hertasi have gone with Rris? Or why not have both Karal and Rris go together?<< Because it wouldn't fit the plotline. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Actually, I don't think there were any hertasi available and Karal was a trained observer. It is also a plot device to put Karal in among the movers/shakers in the storyline. ******* Esmerelda wrote: >>I think she's one of ML's richer characters - Talia is so, so, so nice she's treacly. Elspeth has depth, we know where she's come from, what she's been through. She's been developed in a major way through the books - you can actually see why she might be the way she is, a bit like we know exactly where Van came from. We have nothing like this amount of insight into any other of ML's people.<< I have always liked Elspeth. There is nothing more frustrating than being trapped in the kind of social trap, she'd been in at the beginning of Fate. The real shock for E is when she realizes that she's being lead like a sheep to the slaughter. I'd be pretty pissed too! Gwena and Skif are the heavies in the first book. Both of them try to drag E down like the proverbial mill stone. You notice Skif improves after Nyara(I absolutely refuse to make a sexist comment on this point). Gwena takes a bit more reforming, but improves over time. I do however disagree that Darkwind was over-reacting to Elspeth's snobbishness. What he says to her has to be said. She has been given an inflated opinion of her own importance. From the time she reached Full Herald(at least several years), she's been coddled and elevated. He rightly deflates her inflated self-importance. Once that is done, she settles down to prove herself. In a way it helps her develope into the mage she becomes. Elspeth has problems but then so do real people. Talia has her self-doubt. Vanyel has a tendency to wallow in melancholy. Kero is too independant. Karal too self defacing. So why not let Elspeth be a bit arrogant and opinionated. Its just a little less acceptable to us because no one really wants to admit they can identify with arrogance. ******* This is getting too long. I'll finish up in the next post. Glith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 18:21:54 -0500 (EST) From: Mat the Cat in Green To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: gambit/naked woman/huff/reichert/Taver Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Dec 1996, Sara A Youngblood wrote: > And just what is wrong with Gambit? Other than he is a scoundrel, a Gambit. Ugh. He's so, so, *slimy*. > And Lady Jaguar also asked: > >And WHAT is with the naked woman on the cover?? > > There's a naked woman on the front of my copy (both, actually) of MPawn. > Her hair is supposed to hide everything but you can still see public > hair. I take it this is our beloved St. Melenna? Well, we were talking about the naked lady on the cover of the UK BG, not LHM. The picture is up on Ian's page. > I want to start reading Tanya Huff but don't know where I want to start. > Same with Mickey Reichert. Suggestions? For Huff. Hmm. Well, if you want a standalone, go for _The Fire's Stone_. It's a really cool book. Right 'Reesa? If you want a series, I'd say the Victory Nelson Investigations. Esp. if you like Di Tregarde. They're reminiscent of each other (tho, IIRC, Huff's books came first) with occult detectives. Don't know about Reichert. I'm not a big fan of hers. I have the Last of the Renshai trilogy, but I've never read part 3. I tried to reread the first two, but I just couldn't get through them again. ============================================================================= On Mon, 9 Dec 1996 Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > I've discovered a discrepancy! In the Arrows trilogy, it very clearly states > on several occassions that the Monarch's Own Companion is always Roland. > Well, while I was searching for the passage concerned in the now defunct > treaty discussion, I discovered the following passage: > "Jisa hadn't been Chosen because her Companion would be Taver, and Taver was > the > Companion to the King's Own, Jisa's mother Shavri." (Magic's Price p 12) There is no real texevd that there has only been one MOC. That's only onlist speculation. In the Orientation Class, Teren says that the MOC can be killed. At some time between LHM and Arrows, Taver was killed, and Rolan replaced him. (I don't cound "Stolen Silver", since that Taver can't be the same. Besides, what would the MOH be doing on the Karsite Border?) Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"Hey diddle-dee, answer me this riddle, Adept, God of Procrastination | hey diddle-do, tell me what you will. Heathen #149, and OoUL/L of tLotPW | Dance all day with the Cat and the mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | Fiddle. Come and lay with the Heather http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ | on the hill" --- Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 18:59:17 EST From: lightstorm-+AT+-juno.com (Michelle N Reis) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: bye for now Message-ID: <19961209.180609.10799.0.lightstorm-+AT+-juno.com> hey y'all, even though I haven't posted to much (yet) I must bid you all a fond farewell. Don't panic, though! I'll be back after Christmas with a question about Companion berserkers. just thought i'd like to have you anticipating my return. Merry Christmas to all. lightstorm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 19:22:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Disney To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bondbirds/Taver Message-ID: <01ICTFFLKHEA002PEH-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU> Glithoniel said: >I've discovered a discrepancy! In the Arrows trilogy, it very clearly states on several occassions that the Monarch's Own Companion is always Roland. Well, while I was searching for the passage concerned in the now defunct treaty discussion, I discovered the following passage: "Jisa hadn't been Chosen because her Companion would be Taver, and Taver was the Companion to the King's Own, Jisa's mother Shavri." (Magic's Price p 12) *srednop* I thought that Teren said that the LAST MOC was Rolon... Cause he also says that ... Well, this isn't exact quote (sorry) but that if the MOC falls in battle then another reappears in the Grove and if the MO is still living by some miracle then the Companion Chooses him/her but if the Herald dies then the Companion gets to Choose someone else. In however many years it's been between Taver and Rolan, I'm sure there've been other MOC's. With all the wars and stuff that seem to spring up (what with unfriendly neighbors and all) it would be a miracle if the MOC from Vanyel's time was still around in Elspeths. :) I was wondering about digests..How do they work? I mean, do you get a huge packet of mail every day or...??? I was wondering because I have finals next week (*flee*) then I'm going home for 3 weeks (*flees even faster*) so I won'tbe around to check mail. Any suggestions? I could unsub, but then I'd miss the WONDERFUL conversations that I stay lurked for *grin* thanx, Jennie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 00:03:10 -0500 From: Hades16-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: X-Men/NakedWomen/Oh yah, intro. Message-ID: <961210000239_1886182908-+AT+-emout07.mail.aol.com> Morgana wrote: ** As I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take. Hush litte baby, don't say a word, and never mind that noise you heard. It's just the beasts under your bed, in your closet, and in your head. ** i really like it (-: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 01:16:10 -0500 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: reichert Message-ID: <199612100119_MC1-CD8-BAF6-+AT+-compuserve.com> > I want to start reading Tanya Huff but don't know where I want to start. > Same with Mickey Reichert. Suggestions? For Huff I'd start with The Quarters sereis, and for Reichert I'd read The Legend Of Nightfall first Firemsit ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 01:52:31 -0500 (EST) From: Mat the Cat in Green To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: metallica/huff Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Dec 1996 Hades16-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Morgana wrote: > > ** As I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If I die > before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take. Hush litte baby, don't > say a word, and never mind that noise you heard. It's just the beasts > under your bed, in your closet, and in your head. ** > > i really like it (-: It's a little different if you hear it sung. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's Metallica, "Enter Sandman". Of course, that's one of 2 Metallica songs I like (the other being "One"). ============================================================================ On Tue, 10 Dec 1996, Rozanna McNeer wrote: > For Huff I'd start with The Quarters sereis, and for Reichert I'd > read The Legend Of Nightfall first Really? I've read StFQ, and I liked it. But for the life of me, I can't seem to get into Fifth Quarter. I like the Viki Nelson books and The Fire's Stone a lot more. Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"Hey diddle-dee, answer me this riddle, Adept, God of Procrastination | hey diddle-do, tell me what you will. Heathen #149, and OoUL/L of tLotPW | Dance all day with the Cat and the mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | Fiddle. Come and lay with the Heather http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ | on the hill" --- Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 96 14:35:47 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: not a lot - POs (tm) / Huff Message-ID: <9612101335.AA10297-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> hi - getting quiet round here these days isn't it? Kaatje asked > Anyone? Have you read *fantasy* (not real-world) novels about Perfectly > Ordinary (tm) characters? I'm trying to think of one, but I can't. Of > course, this may not be my fault, because I'm so drugged up on DayQuil > right now that I feel like I'm wrapped in cotton. (Got a Bad Cold). well, this probably won't work, cos I can feel the brain going into "Who me? Names? What names?" mode, but I'll give it a whirl. Ann McCaffrey's book, Renegades of Pern - isn't the guy who rescues Araminta (??? - the one who can hear dragons) pretty normal. He doesn't acquire any gifts nor nuffink. And the much mentioned Piemur, also a McC character - he's a pretty ordinary man - no great gifts or magicks. But fantasy novels are about escape, aren't they? And PO's (tm) don't tend to escape, 'cos they lead their PO life, and die PO deaths. I'm trying to work out how to write someone far from PO who ends up living a PO life, without the reader nodding off early on! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Tygriss started it all by asking: > I want to start reading Tanya Huff but don't know where I want to start. > Same with Mickey Reichert. Suggestions? Mat kicked off with > For Huff. Hmm. Well, if you want a standalone, go for _The Fire's > Stone_. It's a really cool book. Right 'Reesa? If you want > a series, I'd say the Victory Nelson Investigations. Esp. if you like > Di Tregarde. They're reminiscent of each other (tho, IIRC, Huff's books > came first) with occult detectives. Firemist bounced back with > For Huff I'd start with The Quarters series, which Mat parried h > Really? I've read StFQ, and I liked it. But for the life of me, > I can't seem to get into Fifth Quarter. I like the Viki Nelson books > and The Fire's Stone a lot more. okaaay, it's my turn. I was disappointed with the first Vicky Nelson I read - expected a bit more, oh I don't know, pizzazz, k'zow, zap - that sort of thing. I'd recommend The Fire's Stone - brill book, and I really like the Quarter trilogy - Sing the 4, 5th Quarter and No Quarter, but then, as has been said here before, I think Bannon's gorgeous! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Lackey - Lackey - ah yes, an author, writes about horseys and such. Eerm, nope, sorry, I'm sitting here in fantasy author mode, thinking 'bout L.L Modestri's Recluse books (slow to grab, but thorough once you've been got), how to create some sort of wind elemental, without re-writing someone else's book, all sorts of things, but no Obmisty. Sorry can't shake one out, work beckons, ciao, Esmeralda ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:38:00 -0500 From: "Emily L Cartier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: ordinary Message-ID: <9612101441.AA29364-+AT+-udecc.engr.udayton.edu> Ordinary people in fantasy novels... Hmm.... Nita and Dari and Kit are _real_ bad examples, specially Dari. The Deryni books are almost by definition about extrordinary people... Pern... Hmm.. Well, Sorka was a pretty normal kid who grew up and became a vet and got married... and then Faranth Impressed her. It's just she did all that stuff on a colony planet that they didn't really know much about. Besides, that's science fiction... Darkover (still sf), mmm... Has some ordinary people, and extrordinary things happen to them (dunno what else you'd call whatshisface who married that Keeper,mmm Elorie in _The Bloody Sun_). But the stories mostly aren't about normal, boring people who do what they always did. Actually, many fantasy books are about people who thought they were ordinary and discovered that they have some super special really weird ability. Then they have all sorts of adventures. Nita and Kit from the Wizard books are almost stereotypical of this pattern (except they work as a team). Talia is another good example of this pattern, and boy is _she_ ordinary seeming... at first... I can think of dozens of other examples. And really, in a fantasy book, how can someone be ordinary? They live in a world that is very different from ours. They have magic as a possibility and all sorts of strange creatures. Their religion is different, and so is their culture. Our ordinary is _very_ different from their ordinary, and I don't really think I've ever seen a book that really capitalized on that. Problem is that I'm not sure that the conventions for how to write fantasy allow for a book like that. Emily the invisible ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1011 **********************************