MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1020 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: LotR/white chocolate/etc by Ken Hyde 2) Brvaes Will Return Sometime Later by Korendil 3) The White Chocolate thread continues by Rozanna McNeer 4) Reply to: Divine fluff by Rozanna McNeer 5) Bond At First Sight by Rozanna McNeer 6) Re: Gaiman/ Gifted/ Kyree/ cats and hertasi/ chocolate/ Troi by Chris & Sean Talbot 7) White Chocolate by "Emily L Cartier" 8) Hi by Brian Bennett 9) first sight/ opening gifts/ chocolate/ pavement by Rose 10) by "Dan McEndree" 11) Chocolate/newbies/current topics on the list/personal note by John Hagen 12) Lotr/Kay/Artists/Joy/Eyes by Kaatje 13) DTInvestigations by "Kerowynn k'Sheyna" 14) welcome!!! by Rozanna McNeer 15) Re: Lotr/Kay/Artists/Joy/Eyes by Ken Hyde 16) mucho Tolkein/stuff/names by Mat the Cat in Green ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 02:18:05 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LotR/white chocolate/etc Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Mat the Cat in Green wrote: > Ah, I'm procrastinating from the Mighty Tomes and hiding from the Spectres > of Finals. Not to mention the multiple Research Paper dragons. Me too. My last research paper has turned out to be the sneaky kind that refuse to take shape. It is still a skelatal mass of 20 pages of outline, with almost no actually text to flesh it out. Aaaaghhh! Someone other than Mat wrote: > > Sam is my favorite character in all of Fantasy. And you're right, he was > > truly a Perfectly Ordinary person, with nothing but the clothes on his > > back (well, he was Ringbearer for a little while, but not long enough for > > it to do anything to him). There is nobody like him. Urmmm. I hate to point this out, but Sam was changed profoundly by the Ring. That is why, at the end of his days he took ship from the Grey Havens and crossed the Sundering Sea. He was the last of the Ring-Bearers to pass from Middle-Earth. And there are indications in the last book that he was also changed by the Ring in terms of character, etc. His testing at Cirith Ungol was phenomenal because he was the only Ring-Bearer to ever deny the lure of the Ring on his own. Still, it is also true that he was very, very ordinary on the surface. > Funny. I have this LotR poster that I found in the campus bookstore last > year, and it's done all in tones of brown. Kind Thomas Canty-ish > actually. Although the characters all look old, thin and decrepit. (Sam > looks like he's on his way to Gollum-hood.) It's a pretty cool poster, > and the color(s) really capture the bleakness for me. :) Oddly enough, I always think of Thomas Canty as looking kind of Tolkienish. =) And since Tolkien did his painting a long time before Thomas Canty did his, I think we can safely say that Tolkien has prior claim to the style. As for Sam, I think that Rankin & Bass have a lot to answer for! Most people have this idea that hobbits are these round fat little creatures, but if you read the books and look at the descriptions carefully, you realize that the hobbits in the Company were not fat. They were all, including Sam, in very good shape as was typical of most young hobbits. As to the bleakness of Tolkien's world, it was supposed to be bleak. After all, he was writing about the end of an Age, and the passing of all Magic from the world. All of Tolkien's works are concerned with the fall from grace. It is the same sort of bleakness that comes to permeate Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Cycle. And to some extent also shows up in Susan Cooper's "Rising Dark" cycle. Come to think of it, all of these series have their roots in the Celtic and Old Germanic traditions. Maybe that is the difference: Misty's writing, for all her wiccan touches, is not really rooted in the same tradition. She bases her writings on a idealized version of Medieval Feodality with a strong Rennaissance interpretation. And her work is further filtered by the fact that she is locating it in a very strongly revisionist fantasy literature tradition. Tolkien, Alexander, and Cooper worked from much darker and bleaker antecedents. Anyway, its a theory. > Wait a sec Mist. I think Cenny was saying (and seems to be wrong! Wow. > ) that white chocolate (is that anything like a White Coconut? ) > _does_ have chocolate in it. That's why he asked how Mylee could still > eat it. I guess that you're just shocked by Cen being wrong for once. As IF! I am not wrong. Give me some credit. I can even give you the textevd if you want (including US FDA requirements for cocoa butter content of "white chocolate"). After all, despite Firemist's divinity, I have to say that I am no slouch in the kitchen. =P May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me **http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 96 04:17:26 -0500 From: Korendil To: Subject: Brvaes Will Return Sometime Later Message-ID: <9612150923.AA02183-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> Mylee said: >I never like Cosette >either, but that's prolly coz she got Marius (who was a wimp). Marius wasn't a wimp, no...he was a very deep romantic. I'm tithing to mat on finishing reading Les Mis, but, anyway, the only wimp was Cossette. When daddy-dearest wants to leave, she does even though it means losing her true love...and I don't think she really gets anything, if you know what I mean. She's kinda dreamy, and, now that I think about it, a lot like my aunt. Anyway, Marius was a romantic, and kinda out-of-it, but he could also be really strong, in a strange sort of way. For like 5 years he lived like a pauper even though he could of, at any time, returned to his grandfather's house (kinda like Alec in Swordspoint). But that was a really stupid thing. And he kept on believing he was a Baron, even though no-one else recognized thast fact. He was naive, though. Nonetheless, he got *really* obsessed and kinda wacko about Cossette. But not weak. Out of focus and ultra-romantic, though. Cos, though, was a definite wimp-o-rama, the kind of female Misty would never write (see? see? ontopic, even though the rest of this email might have other bits, too;>). Or would do in a parody sort of way, or pitiable. Like Kero's sister in law. Or..um...Treesa. Well, Treesa had some deepness in her. Just very buried. > Why does Kethry say that the kyree are Pelagir creatures but it >says elsewhere that they were created by Urtho? Well, they live in the Pelagirs. Or on a more twisting-of-logic point of view, the Pelagirs *are* partly Urtho's fault. But, true, SG(city, that is) has kyree. So they ain't Pelagir. And remember, they don't have many records of events 1500 years before hand, from right before a disaster so horrible that it warped magical and temporal fields.. Deniz said: > >Oh, and I'd like to make a quick apology to Brvaes. Sorry. There, that's >over. Aw...'salright. In fact, if you want you can controll him fo--oh..yer going to be gone. So you can't;> Ok, so according to Mist's cennydd-like evidence;>, Urtho didn't make 'em. SO there goes the half-truth idea. Um...hey, isn't it strange that talking wolves and lizards are mage-created, while talking deer and bird-men aren't? And why does Winds leave you witht eh feeling that the tervardi and dyheli are inferior? Merci, Mylee. I'll wear it whenever I wanna rob a bank;P /me reads Kenny's post. I gotta reread/finish LotR someday. Really go. Maybe after I make a sizeable dent in my 40-or-so books-to-read;> Kenny said: > The color and intensity difference >is due to the fact that white chocolate doesn't have any "chocolate mass," >the dark heavily-flavored solid extract of the cacao bean. Soooo..you mean white chocolate is real chocolate without the good part?;P Mat said: >I don't think she's an EE. She was a computer programmer at one time >though. /me goes to look at misty bio (btw, why does everyone think she was an EE? this came up a few months ago, too)> here we go: Artist's model in and near South Bend, Ind., 1975-81; Associates Data Processing, South Bend, computer programmer, 1979-82; CAIRS (survey and data processing firm), South Bend, surveyor, layout designer, and analyst, 1981-82; American Airlines, Tulsa, Okla., computer programmer, 1982--. it's a tad bit outdated--she quit the AA job after her stuff got all popular;> Hated it, too, iirc my mising FFF liner. So a model, a programmer, and a surveyor..but not an EE. >Of course, I had >no luck finding it in Barnes and Noble today. :( Nor did I at Bookstop... >The problem is that they don't know *how* to do it. Savil says so >somewhere in MPawn. Righto..lemme see what I have in the MoC...yeah..some mage-schools know how, it's rumored, but they don't tell;> >It's odd. Always before, we're told that lifebonding is at first sight. Wrong. Everyone *assumes* they're at first sight--Neither of Van's were, nor Talia or Sherrill's...the only time we see that is in BTS. And with Companions. BTW, I'm here, but sorta-lurking. Too busy and stuff. I'll rarely write much for awhile. And dunno when I'll get back to the LotPW stuff. So if I miss a b-day gift, please excuse me--I have exams starting the day after my b-day, and a science research paper and project due on the 6th and 13th, respectively. Plus a short story idea that popped into my head tonight (well, really just a minor thingy, but it really touched me--see, my cat, Kory, was walking across the room--my mom's dog, Matisse, was sleeping on the couch. EVen though they're usually constantly fighting, as he passed, Kory put his paw on the couch, and nuzzled his nose lightly on Mat's fur, then walked away. And then when my mom took Matty out to do his business, Kor waited by the door....okay. So I need help if I'm gonna write a sub-thread of romance using a dog and cat as models. Who'd have to be shaych for even that to be right.) -+AT+-LIDNEROK___________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________KORENDIL-+AT+- I|Korendil, Knight of the Order of Amber & Marigold and Elfhame |I C|Sun-Descending, Squire of the High Court, Envoy to Elfhame |C U|Misthold, Magus Minor, One In Black,Firstborn Child of Danaan,|U B|God of Night and All Things Nocturnal, Champion of the Ladies |B E|of the Pink Wand, Acting Master of Dreams, and Ailurophile. |E D|.NET______________/NAME THE MIME AND DIE!!\_______________TEN.|D ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:21:18 -0500 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: The White Chocolate thread continues Message-ID: <199612151221_MC1-D23-BF53-+AT+-compuserve.com> Cennydd said, in response to the white chocolate thread > Of course, real white chocolate has cocoa products in it, the cocoa butter >in it is the same as in "real" chocolate and is what gives genuine white >chocolate its haunting, delicate chocolate flavor. But Cennydd! I *did* say it had cocoa butter in it! And may I point out that the less dedicated to cooking knowledge tend to think Hershey's cocoa when they think of cocoa at all. One does not tend to associate cocoa butter with cooking (unless one is a dedicated dabbler), but rather associates cocoa butter with *lotion*. And lotion does not usually conjure up visions of white chocolate, nor the other way around . Cennydd, TINAF! don't kill me because of mis-reading! i'm teasing gently! hey! wait! you're supposed to be using that on the Dread Research Paper, not me! Heather? Mel? save me??? anyway, you can buy sticks of cocoa butter (rendered for lotion; non-edible) at the body shop -- it's part of their mama toto line and is absolute heaven for dry elbows, knees, and heels! Not to mention you smell like white chocolate all day. You just need some of Van's Miracle Massage Ointment to smell like a white chocolate puff pastry! Firemist, who is slightly giddy about being done w/ finals ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:30:15 -0500 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Reply to: Divine fluff Message-ID: <199612151230_MC1-D2F-9765-+AT+-compuserve.com> Cennydd >As IF! I am not wrong. Give me some credit. I can even give you the >textevd if you want (including US FDA requirements for cocoa butter >content of "white chocolate"). After all, despite Firemist's divinity, I >have to say that I am no slouch in the kitchen. =P Ack! Cennydd? wrong? never - just not fully laying out all the detailed argument/textevd etc, etc, since he is busy with the Dread Research Paper Dragon of the Linguistic Persuasion He really is no slouch kitchen-wise, you know. In fact, I shall anoint him High Priest of Gourmet Details, if he deigns to accept the title. . . Firemist, who is still growing into her Goddesshood ps - can one ever learn everyhting there is to know about cooking?? ^^^ tithe to the Got of topy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:35:48 -0500 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Bond At First Sight Message-ID: <199612151235_MC1-D24-2042-+AT+-compuserve.com> Kory said: >Wrong. Everyone *assumes* they're at first sight--Neither of Van's were, >nor Talia or Sherrill's...the only time we see that is in BTS. And with >Companions. tchah, Kory. tsk, tsk! Talia and Dirk were one of the Bond At First Sight -- it's in AFlight or Afall, when Tantris tells Kris he shouldn't twit Talia about her feelings for Dirk since they are life-bonded and Rolan thinks the bonding formed when Talia first saw Dirk on her way to the Collegium. Firemist ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:59:48 -0500 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gaiman/ Gifted/ Kyree/ cats and hertasi/ chocolate/ Troi Message-ID: <199612152059.PAA12633-+AT+-nemesis.idirect.com> >~~Gifted~~ > >>>Mylee: So why couldn't they open the channels of those who were >Gifted when there >were so few Herald Mages left? It doesn't have to get blasted, just >opened. > >>Deniz: But he didn't *want* his gifts triggered. The Heralds do have a >reputation to uphold, you >know. > >Mylee: Oh, I didn't mean Van. I mean, yes, but, he was my example and I >was thinking of others, >and.... Um, wait, that sentence just did _not_ make sense. Okay, um, Van >shows us that people >with mage potential can become mages if the channels are opened. I'm sure >there must've been >other Heralds with the potential. So why couldn't their channels be >opened by the other mages so >that there would be more HMs? I'm sure that at least some of them would >be willing to have it >opened, if it's for the good of Valdemar. It was said I thought that they didn't know how to open someones gifts that way. There were certain schools which could but they weren't telling how. As far as I know that was the only case of a back lash opening someones gift. MAybe that would be the only way for a herald to open them. Aistes ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 16:21:45 -0500 From: "Emily L Cartier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: White Chocolate Message-ID: <9612152125.AA13775-+AT+-udecc.engr.udayton.edu> Hmm. I don't remember a lot about white chocolate, and it seems as if a lot of people are passing around funny information. It is time for serious measures.... DAD!!!!!!!!!! WE NEED HELP WITH ALL THIS CHOCOLATE STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >Mylee: How come there are so many "chocolates" that aren't really >chocolate? And the fake white chocolate must be what I've eaten. >How do they make it white anyway? Dark chocolate's the best, sweet >and bitter. Huh? who's chocolate have you been eating? The stuff from people who make that foil wrapped cheap stuff? Firemist said: >ahhh, mylee as goddess of made from scratch foods, >I have to have some passing familiarity with ingredients, and let me >tell you something: white chocolate NEVER has any cocoa in it. Ever. >Which is what dear Cenny was trying to tell you It's made largely >from sugar, cocoa butter >milk, and vanilla. Why is it called chocolate if it never has any >cocoa in it? Maybe they thought cocoa butter was close enough to cocoa >to pass ::shrugs:: And I agree, chocolate with the highest cocoa >percentage is the best-> preferably around 60% Dark, or Verkade Puur (which is unavailable in the U.S. since it is >a Dutch brand)> First of all, why would _anyone_ waste cocoa butter on lotion? It is one of the most essential ingredients in chocolate! It is actually more important than the cocoa (yes really, the Hershey plant has special machines for getting cocoa butter out of cocoa so they can put it in the chocolate). _Cocoa_ is a byproduct that they sell cause it can be used for other things. (Mommy please don't let Hershey kill me if I let out a state secret) Kenny got it mostly right. The only thing he left out is why white chocolate is called white chocolate. The reason is pretty simple. It has everything essential to real (milk or dark) chocolate except for the addition of cocoa. This post is sheer and utter fluff and is making me homesick besides (could someone mail me a Toblerone? please?). I am sick of being stuck in a place where the idea of a candy aisle is a little teensy rack barely larger than a computer desk, and most of it is gum (quelle horreur!). I keep dreaming of cookies and mint bars, Skor bars, Symphony with almonds and toffee, those chocolate nuggets, kisses with almonds, regular kisses, and just about every other kind of chocolate I took for granted. Not only that, but they don't have Solitares or Toblerone or any other imported chocolate on the shelves in the grocery store (and they call themselves civilized!). Waaaah!!!!!! Please, can we suspend discussion of chocolate until after Christmas break? Dayton OH hasn't got anything approaching the selection in chocolate that I'm used to as a denizen of Hershey PA, and it is driving me crazy! Emily the invisible OH, I just thought of an ObMisty! They don't have any kind of real chocolate in Velgarth, and boy am I glad that they don't know what they're missing (Cadbury eggs, some one help me, I'm dreaming of Cadbury eggs and Caramello bars) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 17:44:51 -0800 From: Brian Bennett To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Hi Message-ID: <32B4A993.107C-+AT+-erinet.com> I sent a note to Stormwind after visiting her web page and she told me that as a newbie to the group I should introduce myself, so here I am. I have the usename of Shadow Wolf on some local bulletin boards and if that's okay with everyone you can call me Shadow Wolf. There's something I've been wondering about that was mentioned in L&W and I think AoQ. It talks about roads made by the ancients paved with an unknown substance. Does anyone have any ideas what this could be? I don't think that it's concrete or asphalt because it would be pretty torn up if it was that old. My GUESS is that it's a magically enhanced pavement. Just something I was curious about. I'll let you all do most of the talking until I get to know you better. Shadow Wolf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 18:36:40 -0500 From: Rose To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: first sight/ opening gifts/ chocolate/ pavement Message-ID: <32B48B88.5CF9-+AT+-ctol.net> Kory said: >>Wrong. Everyone *assumes* they're at first sight--Neither of Van's >>were, nor Talia or Sherrill's...the only time we see that is in BTS. >>And with Companions. Firemist then wrote: >tchah, Kory. tsk, tsk! Talia and Dirk were one of the Bond At First >Sight -- it's in AFlight or Afall, when Tantris tells Kris he shouldn't >twit Talia about her feelings for Dirk since they are life-bonded and >Rolan thinks the bonding formed when Talia first saw Dirk on her way to >the Collegium. But, remember when Kris is talking to Skif when he meets up with them on circit? When Kris mentions that Tantris believes that Talia and Dirk bonded at first sight Skif says something to the effect of "That must be one strong bond!" It seems that first sight bonds are not the normal for most people, and that the stronger the bond, the stronger the pull to that person. Aistes wrote: >It was said I thought that they didn't know how to open someones gifts >that way. There were certain schools which could but they weren't >telling how. As far as I know that was the only case of a back lash >opening someones gift. MAybe that would be the only way for a herald >to open them. If you think about it, a persons gifts are opened slowly over time. They are able to get used to the new sensations gradually until they don't remember ever not having them. If someone was to trigger someone's latent gifts as was done in Vanyel, then the whole process which should take years instead takes minutes or seconds. The amount of physical and mental pain that would cause the individual would make it astonishing to me that they would ever survive it with their sanity intact. Emily the invisible wrote: >OH, I just thought of an ObMisty! They don't have any kind of real >chocolate in Velgarth, and boy am I glad that they don't know what >they're missing (Cadbury eggs, some one help me, I'm dreaming of >Cadbury eggs and Caramello bars) You are a cruel one Emily. A very cruel one. But, I gues I can't complain about my lack thereof of chocolate anymore since I spent the weekend with a friend who takes it as his personal goal to feed my chocolate craving. I highly suggest that chocoholics find someone like that. Shadow Wolf Wrote: >It talks about roads made by the ancients paved with an unknown >substance. Does anyone have any ideas what this could be? I don't >think that it's concrete or asphalt because it would be pretty torn up >if it was that old. My GUESS is that it's a magically enhanced >pavement. Just something I was curious about. I've wondered about this too, I always thought it was some kind of earth molding technique where they would make the ambiant ground into whatever they wanted it to be. Probably needed to be done by Adepts though since they have the will power to convince the earth that it would rather be this special pavement. Kawryathen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 20:39:51 -0500 From: "Dan McEndree" To: Message-ID: <199612160242.UAA26106-+AT+-esper.jc.net> Hi, I'm new to the list and so far I have found it very enjoyable. I tend to be a little hesitant to write, but I feel that if I don't I'd be considered one of the dreaded "lurkers". I noticed that a lot of you out there discuss the trilogy of arrows but nothing is hardly(if ever) mentioned of Misty's Diana Tregarde Investigations. This was my first intro to Misty's work and ever since I've become addicted. I guess I've rambled on long enough, so I'll close for now. I haven't come up with a nick name yet (any suggestions would be welcomed) so I'll sign with my ordinary everyday name. Daniel McEndree ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 23:41:01 -0400 From: John Hagen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Chocolate/newbies/current topics on the list/personal note Message-ID: <32B4C4C7.4B84-+AT+-snet.net> As far as chocolate goes, I knew my husband truly loved me when he purchased Droste's Cocoa, made it for me, brought it to me in bed and promptly ran for the toilet. He gets nauseous just from the smell of the stuff. Walking into a chocolatier's makes his eyes water. Welcome Dan & Shadow Wolf. We talk about all of Misty's works. Presently we have a poll going regarding the first Misty you read and the your favorite Misty book. We're also talking about lifebonds and how they're formed and when (all of a sudden or gradually over time). Thank you for all your condolences and sharing of hugs and strength. My mother-in-law is entering the hospice on Monday the 16th of December. I keep hoping that she will be out of pain soon. Pancreatic cancer is not a good way to die. Personally I would prefer to die in battle. Anyway having you all to write to and spend time with is helping me a lot. Hugs to you all. Lady Sara, Dryad Extraordinaire ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 22:42:06 -0600 (CST) From: Kaatje To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Lotr/Kay/Artists/Joy/Eyes Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Dec 1996 Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > ******* > Kaatje wrote: > >>There's something about Tolkien's world that is so...bleak. So empty. I > visualize it all in muted watercolor tones, drifted in fallen leaves and thin > sunlight. And in the end, even though the war is won, Sauron defeated, and > the land restored, there's still that feeling of vague emptiness. It's not a > "happy ending", really, just an End. And > it's the only ending that could possibly be.<< > > I agree there is so much that is lost or about to be lost. Its an ending > with a hope for a brighter future but its not often that Ages end. Besides, > even the earlier ages in Tolkien tend to have that dark undercurrent of > lurking evil. Oddly enough, GGK's Fionavar Tapestry is the same way. I > haven't been able to bring myself to read any of his other stuff(mostly due > to that aversion to having my heart ripped out and shredded) but from what > friends have told me the bleakness is the same. They are quite similar--and I guess I don't mind have my heart ripped out and shredded once in a while :) because I keep reading Kay's stuff. But I don't see their worlds in a same way, for some reason. I feel like Kay's stuff has a lot of color, spice, flowing wine...you know what I mean. Cennydd has the right idea on this one, I think (his comments are later in the post). I think I see Kay as more vibrant because he bases his work on Spain, Italy, France, those areas. On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Mat the Cat in Green wrote: > On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, Kaatje wrote: > > > Certainly does--speaking of which, we've got that going on right now, and > > they've been showing Riverdance concerts!! > > I've never seen them myself, but I did see a Riverdance video on the shelf > in a video store in the mall yesterday. Oh, it's amazing! It's running again, as I write. They just did that lovely Spanish dancing routine.....hmmmm....having an idea for a Ph.D thesis...Arabic and Spanish influence in Irish music, now wouldn't that be fun! > Funny. I have this LotR poster that I found in the campus bookstore last > year, and it's done all in tones of brown. Kind Thomas Canty-ish > actually. Although the characters all look old, thin and decrepit. (Sam > looks like he's on his way to Gollum-hood.) It's a pretty cool poster, > and the color(s) really capture the bleakness for me. :) Is that the one with the Orcs running along the borders and Gollum down on the bottom center? I LOVE that poster! No matter where I go, it hangs above my bed. But I always thought that was Bilbo, not Sam. On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Ken Hyde wrote: > Urmmm. I hate to point this out, but Sam was changed profoundly by the > Ring. That is why, at the end of his days he took ship from the Grey > Havens and crossed the Sundering Sea. He was the last of the > Ring-Bearers to pass from Middle-Earth. And there are indications in the > last book that he was also changed by the Ring in terms of character, etc. > His testing at Cirith Ungol was phenomenal because he was the only > Ring-Bearer to ever deny the lure of the Ring on his own. Still, it is > also true that he was very, very ordinary on the surface. Urm, well, *I* hate to point this out, but you've got the wrong guy. :) Frodo took the ship to the Grey Havens. Sam stayed home and raised his children. And yes, Sam was affeted by the Ring, but while Frodo fell, and Gollum before him, Sam never for a moment was tempted. He gave the Ring back when Frodo demanded it without a thought (RotK 208). I believe Sam was ordinary in the conventional way--he had no special powers, no "amazing" abilities, but his power to love was such that the Ring held no true power over him. You could certainly call that extraordinary. It's probably why I love him. > Oddly enough, I always think of Thomas Canty as looking kind of > Tolkienish. =) And since Tolkien did his painting a long time before > Thomas Canty did his, I think we can safely say that Tolkien has prior > claim to the style. As for Sam, I think that Rankin & Bass have a lot to > answer for! Most people have this idea that hobbits are these round fat > little creatures, but if you read the books and look at the descriptions > carefully, you realize that the hobbits in the Company were not fat. They > were all, including Sam, in very good shape as was typical of most young > hobbits. *Nobody* ever gets Hobbits right for me. Although this is true for almost everything I read. I have my own ideas about how characters look, and seeing an artist's conception of it gives me a headache. I try to avoid looking at them too long. A few exceptions: Thomas Canty, John Howe...a couple of others. > As to the bleakness of Tolkien's world, it was supposed to be bleak. > After all, he was writing about the end of an Age, and the passing of all > Magic from the world. All of Tolkien's works are concerned with the fall > from grace. It is the same sort of bleakness that comes to permeate Lloyd > Alexander's Prydain Cycle. And to some extent also shows up in Susan > Cooper's "Rising Dark" cycle. Come to think of it, all of these series > have their roots in the Celtic and Old Germanic traditions. Maybe that is > the difference: Misty's writing, for all her wiccan touches, is not really > rooted in the same tradition. She bases her writings on a idealized > version of Medieval Feodality with a strong Rennaissance interpretation. > And her work is further filtered by the fact that she is locating it in a > very strongly revisionist fantasy literature tradition. Tolkien, > Alexander, and Cooper worked from much darker and bleaker antecedents. > Anyway, its a theory. Well, that was my point. :) Part of the hold LotR has on me is because of that bleakness. Not so surprising, I guess, if your Celtic/Germanic theory holds true--that *is* what I am, after all. It's also part of the reason I intend to go into Celtic Studies/Folkore. There's something about that part of the world, that perspective, that spare, powerful joy that pervades everything.... I took a course on the Philosphy of C.S. Lewis a few years ago (good class, lots of interesting stuff) and he was a contemporary of Tolkien's, I believe--a member of The Inklings at Oxford. Anyway, he wrote quite a bit on the concept of joy, and it really hit home. You know the feeling when you look at something really beautiful, or you're caught in the grips of powerful emotion? That ache in your chest, the lump in your throat, the emptiness just behind your heart? Lewis calls that Joy. He says Joy is being able to feel the distance between yourself and perfection, that ache you feel upon knowing that you will never be that close to it. *That's* what I see in Tolkien's work, and in Kay's, and what I hear in Irish music, and what I felt when I saw the ocean for the first time. The pain that was worth enduring, that wove itself into the fabric of my soul and became a part of me. The few moments in my life when I really lived, when I was outside of myself and part of myself and part of the universe all at the same time, were those moments of Joy. ObMisty: Do we see any dancing in Velgarth? Right now I can't recall any at all, but I'm sure there must have been references. Wonder what it would look like--and would they have established "traditional" dances? Oh wait, they dance at Elspeth's Confirmation as Heir, right? And they danced in pairs, so it must have been something like our Western style of more modern waltzes and stuff. I still wonder what it would look like though. Update on my eyes: those vibes must have worked! Thanks to everyone! I saw the (apparently fabulously world-renowned and incredibly important-- I dunno--they all look alike to me ) specialist on Friday, and he said (in his very comforting southern accent) that he's seen some other cases like mine and in most instances it doesn't get any worse. It's not going to get any better, either, but this I can live with. I was the subject of a national conference at the U of M, and they all charged in to inspect me--talk about instant popularity. So thanks guys! 's e do bheatha, Kaatje Acolyte to the Goddess of Music and Song, Keeper of the Librettos Knight of the OAM Who is probably NOT going to go blind!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:06:13 -0800 From: "Kerowynn k'Sheyna" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: DTInvestigations Message-ID: <32B4D8C4.1FA8-+AT+-inreach.com> "I noticed that a lot of you out there discuss the trilogy of arrows but nothing is hardly(if ever) mentioned of Misty's Diana Tregarde Investigations." "I haven't come up with a nick name yet (any suggestions would be welcomed) so I'll sign with my ordinary everyday name." Daniel McEndree |====+ /|\________________________________________________________ *-+AT+-XXXXXXXX|-+AT+-|________________________________________________________ > \|/ |====+ I've read Children of the Night and I like it. I've always been into Vampire's and the supernatural. I haven't read any others of the Tregarde Investigations yet. Still trying to finish rereading all the books in the Valdemar series, which may take a while since every other book I read ends up being the LHM trilogy! As you can see I REALLY REALLY like that book :) As for a handle, is there any Misty Character you really like or can relate too? If so then you can take that name, use it or modify it any way you like :) Wind to thy Wings, Kerowynn k'Sheyna of Clan Woad http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/8429/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 00:27:42 -0500 From: Rozanna McNeer To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: welcome!!! Message-ID: <199612160027_MC1-D23-C8C9-+AT+-compuserve.com> holy wow, guys! two newbies in one day! Ummmm, Daniel, Shadow Wolf... you may want to duck if you see someone named Mishi coming.... She's the resident Goddess of Overbubbliness and Exurberence (i think I spelled that right) and will POUNCE on you in greeting a few things about this crazy group that are not covered in the FAQs 1) why are some of these people sigging as Gods/Goddesses? How do I become divine? okay, somewhere back in June or July the Divinity kicked off. Thessaly is the Goddess of Nomenclature and she's the one that does the official naming. However, she's lurking, and has anointed Cennydd her Avatar. If you feel like you've got a really special talent/gift that borders on the divine, you can always submit a request to Cennydd. 2) what the heck are all these abbrev's, anyway? Someone has got the entire list of abbrev's used here on the Misty List, but I've forgotten who it was... BTW is By The Way, IIRC is If I Recall (or Remember) Correctly, TINAF is This Is Not A Flame, etc. etc. 3) Should I be afraid of Over Done Topics? Why do people keep threatening me with Cennydd and/or Heather?? Our List goes through Topic cycles. The favorite ones that come up over and over again are a) why the difference between Elspeth in Arrows and Winds? b) are Companions really reincarnated Heralds? b1) Is Sayvil really Savil? c) What's the story on the Monarch's Own Companion (MOC)? d) the why's/how's of life-bonding e) why is the church in the bardic series always the bad guy?!? Anyway, it IS safe to discuss these issues -- just don't expect an enthusiastic response from the list at large. And if anyone answers testily; go ahead and tell them they are being rude. this is a Misty discussion list and is supposed to encourage questions/comments/insights into her work. But also be understanding of anyone who is being rude - the chances are high that it is at least the third time the person has seen the thread.... (in some cases it might even be the thirtith) Cennydd and Heather are not the gods of flame. We don't have any. Cennydd will, however, write strong messages urging the person to use 'textevd' which is short hand for textual evidence. In other words, use quotes when arguing your case. Having been on the receiving end of one of those messages myself, I can say it might shock or upset you if you misread it as a personal attack. don't. Heather writes long, eloquent, well-thought out posts on just about every subject she feels strongly about. Sometimes people misconstrue a person's opinion for a personal attack, but please remember we are not a flame-trigger group. At least, we try not to be. 4) help! what's with the sheep?!?!? (snicker) you'll see..... 5) i'm confused; now what? if you have any questions about the Misty List, The Mage Wars or the Ladies of the Pink Wand, just email me at rozanm-+AT+-wow.com and I'll try to answer them. If I don't know the answers, I'll refer you to someone who probably *will* Firemist, goddess of made from scratch foods, loremistress of the cat people ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 00:48:36 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lotr/Kay/Artists/Joy/Eyes Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Kaatje wrote: > Urm, well, *I* hate to point this out, but you've got the wrong guy. :) No, I don't. > Frodo took the ship to the Grey Havens. Sam stayed home and raised his > children. Frodo took ship with Bilbo (the other long-term Ring-Bearer), Gandalf, Galadriel, and Elrond (the bearers of the Three). However, if you read the appendices and look through the history of Sam, you will see that at the end of his life, after his wife died, he went west. He stopped briefly at the tower in Westmarch where his daughter and family lived and he left the Red Book with her. Then he passed into the west, and took ship to Valinor. > And yes, Sam was affeted by the Ring, but while Frodo fell, > and Gollum before him, Sam never for a moment was tempted. Yes he was. When he had the ring and crossed into Mordor at Cirith Ungol he was tempted by the Ring. It fed him a series of fantasies about "Samwise the Great, ruler of the age" and how he could use the power of the Ring to bring forth flowers and greenery in Mordor. This was similar to the Temptation of Galadriel at Lothlorien, except that Galadriel was merely offered the Ring, while Sam was actually wearing it. Like Galadriel, Sam rejected the Ring's blandishments. > Sam was ordinary in the conventional way--he had no special powers, no > "amazing" abilities, but his power to love was such that the Ring held no > true power over him. The only person in Tolkien's world over whom the Ring had no power was Tom Bombadil. Sam was tempted and tempered by his tenure as the Ring-Bearer. > You know the feeling > when you look at something really beautiful, or you're caught in the > grips of powerful emotion? That ache in your chest, the lump in your > throat, the emptiness just behind your heart? Lewis calls that Joy. How terribly, terribly British. =) I have to admit that I prefer to think that joy is that happy feeling you get when you allow yourself to simply be. What you describe as Lewis' "joy" seems to be similar to my 'ecstasy' (as in the ecstasy of Sta Teresa de Avila). It certainly isn't joy. ObMisty: Hmmmm. Misty doesn't seem to have any magic rings, jewels, etc. Although, come to think of it, she does have magical swords (Need and the Singing Sword). Oh, my god! I just had the most hilarious thought. What if Elspeth had been in Frodo's shoes! Somehow, after her behavior in the Winds series, can't you just imagine her rebelling against the Council of Elrond's decision and going off on her own? Oy, talk about a major disaster in the making. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me **http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 00:48:43 -0500 (EST) From: Mat the Cat in Green To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: mucho Tolkein/stuff/names Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Ken Hyde wrote: > Oddly enough, I always think of Thomas Canty as looking kind of > Tolkienish. =) And since Tolkien did his painting a long time before > Thomas Canty did his, I think we can safely say that Tolkien has prior > claim to the style. As for Sam, I think that Rankin & Bass have a lot to I've never seen any Tolkein paintings. Didn't even know he did any. > As IF! I am not wrong. Give me some credit. I can even give you the Hey, it could happen. Yeah, right, it could. (I'm grasping here.....) :) ========================================================================= On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Korendil wrote: > view, the Pelagirs *are* partly Urtho's fault. But, true, SG(city, that The city is WG, not SG Kory. :) (my family hates it when I do that to them -- correcting them, that is. :) ) > Merci, Mylee. I'll wear it whenever I wanna rob a bank;P That wouldn't work. She said it was clear. :) (annoying, ain't I? ) > >Of course, I had > >no luck finding it in Barnes and Noble today. :( > > Nor did I at Bookstop... Yeah, well, I was really only trying to show it to my mom, so she could buy it for me for Christmas. :) Guess who's probably getting Firebird, SoI, some Kennealy-Morrison, C.L. Moore's _Jirel of Joirey_, etc? ============================================================================== On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Kaatje wrote: > Is that the one with the Orcs running along the borders and Gollum down > on the bottom center? I LOVE that poster! No matter where I go, it > hangs above my bed. But I always thought that was Bilbo, not Sam. Yup, sure is. :) And it was just sitting on the poster rack at the bookstore last semseter. :) I dunno. It could be Bilbo. But I think the whole poster is characters mostly from LotR. Gandalf (with Narya on his finger), Frodo (with Sting), Sam (sitting), Gollum, Gimli, Legolas, Galadriel (my, she looks funky), and I'm not sure about the elf on the left. The star on his head makes me think of Elrond's dad, from the Silmarillon. The one who is a constellation with a Silmarill on his brow. Don't know who it's really supposed to be though. Looks to young for my idea of Elrond. > On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Ken Hyde wrote: > > > Urmmm. I hate to point this out, but Sam was changed profoundly by the > > Ring. That is why, at the end of his days he took ship from the Grey > > Havens and crossed the Sundering Sea. He was the last of the > > Ring-Bearers to pass from Middle-Earth. And there are indications in the > > Urm, well, *I* hate to point this out, but you've got the wrong guy. :) > Frodo took the ship to the Grey Havens. Sam stayed home and raised his > children. And yes, Sam was affeted by the Ring, but while Frodo fell, > and Gollum before him, Sam never for a moment was tempted. He gave the > Ring back when Frodo demanded it without a thought (RotK 208). I believe > Sam was ordinary in the conventional way--he had no special powers, no > "amazing" abilities, but his power to love was such that the Ring held no > true power over him. You could certainly call that extraordinary. It's > probably why I love him. No, Cen is right again here. Yes, Frodo did take ship, but after a long life and many children (and the death of Rose), Sam too took ship from the Grey Havens. IIRC, it's in the appendices of RotK. Sam was the last of the Ringbearers to leave Middle-Earth and take the Straight Road to the West. And I think the Ring made him more thoughtful, more introspective. > ObMisty: Do we see any dancing in Velgarth? Right now I can't recall any > at all, but I'm sure there must have been references. Wonder what it > would look like--and would they have established "traditional" dances? > Oh wait, they dance at Elspeth's Confirmation as Heir, right? And they > danced in pairs, so it must have been something like our Western style of > more modern waltzes and stuff. I still wonder what it would look like > though. Umm, IIRC, Elspeth mentions in Winds that at home, most of the dances are set pieces, while Tayledras dancing is free-form. > Kaatje > Acolyte to the Goddess of Music and Song, Keeper of the Librettos > Knight of the OAM > Who is probably NOT going to go blind!!!!! Yay!!!!! =========================================================================== On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Kerowynn k'Sheyna wrote: > As for a handle, is there any Misty Character you really like or can > relate too? If so then you can take that name, use it or modify it any > way you like :) I don't know about that one. Using modified character names can be very confusing. The only person around here who does it (other than you now, it seems) is Kory. And that used to annoy me when he first used that nick. It makes for confusion when discussing both listmembers and book characters. And what's wrong with using your real name Dan? I use mine. The "Cat in Green" thing just got added on later, but my real name *is* Mat. Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"Hey diddle-dee, answer me this riddle, Adept, God of Procrastination | hey diddle-do, tell me what you will. Heathen #149, and OoUL/L of tLotPW | Dance all day with the Cat and the mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | Fiddle. Come and lay with the Heather http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ | on the hill" --- Heather Alexander ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1020 **********************************