MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1021 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Braid Wonders What His Grandson Brvaes Is Up To by Korendil 2) Re: LotR/magic by Kaatje 3) Re: names by "Kerowynn k'Sheyna" 4) Help? Anyone? by "Seanna" 5) Abrevs by chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg 6) re: mucho Tolkein/stuff/names by Ailsa Reid 7) Re: Lotr/Kay/Artists/Joy/Eyes by Brian Bennett 8) ADMIN: archive cockup, now fixed by Melanie Dymond Harper 9) chocolate/names/Kaatje/the Archives by "Emily L Cartier" 10) Re: Lotr by John Hagen 11) Heather's Birthday/chocolate/3 questions by singer-+AT+-iglobal.net 12) another newbie by "Kathy Chadman" 13) Re: Floating and finals/ Chocolate/ Marius/ Ski Mask/ Kaatje/ Real Name/ Couples by "Romylee A. Ejercito" 14) a question/SofI spoiler(somebody please read this) by singer-+AT+-iglobal.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 01:01:30 -0500 From: Korendil To: Subject: Braid Wonders What His Grandson Brvaes Is Up To Message-ID: <9612160607.AA03634-+AT+-raptor.icubed.net> 'Mist said: >tchah, Kory. tsk, tsk! Talia and Dirk were one of the Bond At First >Sight -- >it's in AFlight or Afall, when Tantris tells Kris he shouldn't twit Talia >about her feelings for Dirk since they are life-bonded and Rolan thinks >the bonding >formed when Talia first saw Dirk on her way to the Collegium. AotQ, pg 58: "and she found herself drawn to him as she'd not been to any male since her brother's death." So she *did* like him, and found his eyes kindly, but she didna' feel any jolt or anything when she looked in his eyes... Em said: >OH, I just thought of an ObMisty! They don't have any kind of real >chocolate in Velgarth, and boy am I glad that they don't know what >they're missing (Cadbury eggs, some one help me, I'm dreaming of >Cadbury eggs and Caramello bars) Oh, they have chocolate. From the concordance.."CHOCOLATE: The pod, and seeds of a tree that grows in the very southern portion of Valdemar. This is very popular among the fops at the court, both for the taste, and as a dsipaly of wealth and status. This is a very expensive treat, usually consumed as a drink sweetened with a large amount of sugar. This is a court affectation that the Healers disprove of, not liking the stimulating effect of the chocolate, nor the sugar used for taste. The main objective of the Healers is that stimulants should be used with care, and not for frivolous displays of wealth." Wow..I'm really in an Emulate Kenny mood tonight, eh?;> Dan said: >I noticed that a lot of you out there discuss >the trilogy of arrows but nothing is hardly(if ever) mentioned of Misty's >Diana Tregarde Investigations. Oh..we discuss everything she writes, stuff other authors write, music, movies, chocolate, even....sheep;> And the occaisonal m--but that's censored now. And the rare cocanut. We just go off on different things at different times. And if we discuss Velgarth stuff the most, well--she has written more of 'em than anything else. Kaatje-who-I'm-glad-isn't-gonna-get-worse said: >I don't see their worlds in a same way, for some reason. I feel like >Kay's stuff has a lot of color, spice, flowing wine...you know what I >mean. Cennydd has the right idea on this one, I think (his comments are >later in the post). I think I see Kay as more vibrant because he bases >his work on Spain, Italy, France, those areas. Yeah. I'd been meaning to sya something about that too. GGK's stuff is definitely more vibrant. It has the gore and all, but I found he used more characterization, and more romance. JRRT always seemed a tad stiff, if quite wonderful in its own way. And I think that we were basically comparing Fionavar to Middle-Earth; Kay didn't start using the real world (except in myths and such) as a base until after Fion. And, actually, he wrote Fion as much in the Tolkien high-fantasy style as he could, but without copying him, like he saw other authors doing. I loved his twist on the "elves" sailing away, however tragic and mean and unfair it was. All that's in some email-interview with him that's on the web--look for it in Alta Vista... >ObMisty: Do we see any dancing in Velgarth? Well, iirc, didn't the Haigliegh entertain the WG group with dancers some nights? Or were those actors? or both? Hmm..okay, I remember someone said that the newbies could choose Misty names and use 'em, but here I am, the pot, to call the kettle black;> We really shouldn't. And it's jarring to people. And Misty's Demonic Lawyers >From The Pits of The Nether Regions of Hell would prolly politely tell us to stop, and then, if we didn't, sue us into Velgarth;> So don't, people. Come up with original names, or use your real one. It's copyright infingement, I'm sure. I still do it, but what the 'ell. Don't. The less who do, less of a chance of legal action. I'd prolly just change to Kory or something. But I'm too well established as Korendil to stop;> Unless politely asked to by MDLFTPOTNROH. -+AT+-LIDNEROK___________/ KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET \_____________KORENDIL-+AT+- I|Korendil, Knight of the Order of Amber & Marigold and Elfhame |I C|Sun-Descending, Squire of the High Court, Envoy to Elfhame |C U|Misthold, Magus Minor, One In Black,Firstborn Child of Danaan,|U B|God of Night and All Things Nocturnal, Champion of the Ladies |B E|of the Pink Wand, Acting Master of Dreams, and Ailurophile. |E D|.NET______________/NAME THE MIME AND DIE!!\_______________TEN.|D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 01:05:58 -0600 (CST) From: Kaatje To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LotR/magic Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Ken Hyde wrote: > On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Kaatje wrote: > > > Urm, well, *I* hate to point this out, but you've got the wrong guy. :) > > No, I don't. > > > Frodo took the ship to the Grey Havens. Sam stayed home and raised his > > children. > > Frodo took ship with Bilbo (the other long-term Ring-Bearer), Gandalf, > Galadriel, and Elrond (the bearers of the Three). However, if you read > the appendices and look through the history of Sam, you will see that at > the end of his life, after his wife died, he went west. He stopped > briefly at the tower in Westmarch where his daughter and family lived and > he left the Red Book with her. Then he passed into the west, and took > ship to Valinor. Gotcha. I *have* read the appendices, but the copy I currently have doesn't include them (can't think why). My first inclination was that you were right, then when I checked my copy (sans appendices) it didn't mention any of that and I thought I was hallucinating. > > And yes, Sam was affeted by the Ring, but while Frodo fell, > > and Gollum before him, Sam never for a moment was tempted. > > Yes he was. When he had the ring and crossed into Mordor at Cirith Ungol > he was tempted by the Ring. It fed him a series of fantasies about > "Samwise the Great, ruler of the age" and how he could use the power of > the Ring to bring forth flowers and greenery in Mordor. This was > similar to the Temptation of Galadriel at Lothlorien, except that > Galadriel was merely offered the Ring, while Sam was actually wearing > it. Like Galadriel, Sam rejected the Ring's blandishments. But does that qualify as temptation? Personally, I don't think it does. The line is "in that hour of trial it was the love of his master that helped him hold firm; but also deep down in him lived *still unconquered* his plain hobbit-sense: he knew in the core of his heart that he was not large enough to bear such a burden, even if such visions were not a mere cheat to betray him." (196) To me, to be tempted requires a moment when you really consider the possibilities, really accept the idea that these things could happen. From what this says, even though Tolkien uses the word "trial", I don't think Sam was ever truly swayed by what he was shown. (italics mine) > > Sam was ordinary in the conventional way--he had no special powers, no > > "amazing" abilities, but his power to love was such that the Ring held no > > true power over him. > > The only person in Tolkien's world over whom the Ring had no power was Tom > Bombadil. Sam was tempted and tempered by his tenure as the Ring-Bearer. I agree that Sam was different because of being the Ring-Bearer: he was given the right to sail to the Grey Havens. But personality wise I guess I don't see it. Although it could be a matter of perspective: the changes you see as a result of the Ring are maybe the changes I see as a result of the journey itself. Anyhow, I don't think the Ring had the kind of power over him that it held over Frodo, and Gollum. Whether that's a function of time or of personality, I can't say. The Ring wore Frodo down over months, Gollum over years. Sam had it only a little while. > ObMisty: Hmmmm. Misty doesn't seem to have any magic rings, jewels, etc. > Although, come to think of it, she does have magical swords (Need and the > Singing Sword). > Oh, my god! I just had the most hilarious thought. What if Elspeth had > been in Frodo's shoes! Somehow, after her behavior in the Winds series, > can't you just imagine her rebelling against the Council of Elrond's > decision and going off on her own? Oy, talk about a major disaster in the > making. It doesn't bear thinking about.:) I really *must* re-read LotR.... ObMisty: Uhhh. Uhhhhhh. I'm having a hard time switching gears here. I'm also not too awake right now, and my eyes still hurt, so I think I'll sheep and do it later. (Tithe to Mat). To pick up on Cen's....Misty uses jewels as focus-stones for magic, but the gems themselves are not magical, just tools for the Mages. It always makes me laugh when I think about how that Singing Sword had such a dull edge--wouldn't you know it. 's e do bheatha, Kaatje ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 00:51:41 -0800 From: "Kerowynn k'Sheyna" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: names Message-ID: <32B50D9D.60A0-+AT+-inreach.com> Mat the Cat in Green wrote: === > On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Kerowynn k'Sheyna wrote: > > > As for a handle, is there any Misty Character you really like or can > > relate too? If so then you can take that name, use it or modify it any > > way you like :) > > I don't know about that one. Using modified character names can be very > confusing. The only person around here who does it (other than you now, > it seems) is Kory. And that used to annoy me when he first used that > nick. It makes for confusion when discussing both listmembers and book > characters. > > Mat Oh, thought adding the extra "n" and "k'Sheyna" at the end would help clarify things. It's the name I use all the time online. Sorry I'm pretty new here :) Kerowyn never went to k'Sheyna Vale did she? It's been awhile since I read BtS. I'm still trying to get my husband to hide the LHM trilogy from me so I don't read it again until I re-read the others. :) Wind to thy Wings, Kerowynn k'Sheyna Warrior-Mage of Clan Woad http://www.geocites.com/TimesSquare/8429/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:56:41 EET From: "Seanna" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Help? Anyone? Message-ID: <695305F2286-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> I'm looking for Phoenyx's Keepers of the Flame, after having lost, to various causes, both the CD and my tape copy of it. I think it's out of print, with no hope of re-release. Does anyone here know where I might get it? Would anyone who has the record be willing to copy it onto a tape for me? Pleease? - Seanna (who's missing her favorite HA record...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:27:25 -0800 From: chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Abrevs Message-ID: <199612170427.UAA24077-+AT+-rgs.rgs.edu.sg> >2) what the heck are all these abbrev's, anyway? > Someone has got the entire list of abbrev's used here on the Misty >List, but I've forgotten who it was... BTW is By The Way, IIRC is If I >Recall (or Remember) Correctly, TINAF is This Is Not A Flame, etc. etc. I have got the entire list of abbrev's used here on the list. Anyone who needs it can e-mail me at chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg Stormwind *&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*& Learning is a treasure which accompanies its owner everywhere. --Anonymous ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Visit my homepage at "http://members.tripod.com/~eladi/index.html" *&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*& ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:55:41 GMT From: Ailsa Reid To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: re: mucho Tolkein/stuff/names Message-ID: <199612161255.MAA22885-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk> Mat the Cat said: >On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Kaatje wrote: > >> Is that the one with the Orcs running along the borders and Gollum down >> on the bottom center? I LOVE that poster! No matter where I go, it >> hangs above my bed. But I always thought that was Bilbo, not Sam. > >Yup, sure is. :) And it was just sitting on the poster rack at the >bookstore last semseter. :) I dunno. It could be Bilbo. But I think the >whole poster is characters mostly from LotR. Gandalf (with Narya on his >finger), Frodo (with Sting), Sam (sitting), Gollum, Gimli, Legolas, >Galadriel (my, she looks funky), and I'm not sure about the elf on the >left. The star on his head makes me think of Elrond's dad, from the >Silmarillon. The one who is a constellation with a Silmarill on his brow. >Don't know who it's really supposed to be though. Looks to young for my >idea of Elrond. I always thought the one with the star on his head was Aragorn. Doesn't Frodo have some sort of vision in Tom Bombadils house about a line of men who sound like the Rangers do later, with the last of them appearing to have a star upon his brow? >> On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Ken Hyde wrote: > >> ObMisty: Do we see any dancing in Velgarth? Right now I can't recall any >> at all, but I'm sure there must have been references. Wonder what it >> would look like--and would they have established "traditional" dances? >> Oh wait, they dance at Elspeth's Confirmation as Heir, right? And they >> danced in pairs, so it must have been something like our Western style of >> more modern waltzes and stuff. I still wonder what it would look like >> though. > >Umm, IIRC, Elspeth mentions in Winds that at home, most of the dances are >set pieces, while Tayledras dancing is free-form. I always "saw" the Valdemar court dances as stuff like 17th/18th century courts had. Things like gavottes, country dance sets and something resembling a waltz. *sigh* the local library _still_ doesn't have SB, and I reserved it as soon as it appeared in the shops round here. Apparently even though its the third book in a set which they have the first 2 of, they have to wait until they know its suitable or something. Mind you, Oxford county _is_ broke! I'm going to have to postpone or something on Friday for the next two weeks (can't be bothered to come to work just to read email ;> )so since I'm unlikely to post again before then; Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Happy Midwinter, and happy birthday to whoever has one soon/had one recently. Ailsa the alien, beloved of Lemming the Fluffy ____________________________________________________________________________ | Ailsa Reid | | The silence never louder than now | | areid-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk How quickly we forget our vows | | This resurrection we cannot allow | | Uzis on a street corner | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 08:50:06 -0800 From: Brian Bennett To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lotr/Kay/Artists/Joy/Eyes Message-ID: <32B57DBE.7F55-+AT+-erinet.com> Kaatje wrote: > > On Fri, 13 Dec 1996 Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > > > ******* > > Kaatje wrote: > > >>There's something about Tolkien's world that is so...bleak. So empty. I > > visualize it all in muted watercolor tones, drifted in fallen leaves and thin > > sunlight. And in the end, even though the war is won, Sauron defeated, and > > the land restored, there's still that feeling of vague emptiness. It's not a > > "happy ending", really, just an End. And > > it's the only ending that could possibly be.<< > > > > I agree there is so much that is lost or about to be lost. Its an ending > > with a hope for a brighter future but its not often that Ages end. Besides, > > even the earlier ages in Tolkien tend to have that dark undercurrent of > > lurking evil. Oddly enough, GGK's Fionavar Tapestry is the same way. I > > haven't been able to bring myself to read any of his other stuff(mostly due > > to that aversion to having my heart ripped out and shredded) but from what > > friends have told me the bleakness is the same. > > They are quite similar--and I guess I don't mind have my heart ripped out > and shredded once in a while :) because I keep reading Kay's stuff. But > I don't see their worlds in a same way, for some reason. I feel like > Kay's stuff has a lot of color, spice, flowing wine...you know what I > mean. Cennydd has the right idea on this one, I think (his comments are > later in the post). I think I see Kay as more vibrant because he bases > his work on Spain, Italy, France, those areas. > > On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Mat the Cat in Green wrote: > > > On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, Kaatje wrote: > > > > > Certainly does--speaking of which, we've got that going on right now, and > > > they've been showing Riverdance concerts!! > > > > I've never seen them myself, but I did see a Riverdance video on the shelf > > in a video store in the mall yesterday. > > Oh, it's amazing! It's running again, as I write. They just did that > lovely Spanish dancing routine.....hmmmm....having an idea for a Ph.D > thesis...Arabic and Spanish influence in Irish music, now wouldn't that > be fun! > > > > Funny. I have this LotR poster that I found in the campus bookstore last > > year, and it's done all in tones of brown. Kind Thomas Canty-ish > > actually. Although the characters all look old, thin and decrepit. (Sam > > looks like he's on his way to Gollum-hood.) It's a pretty cool poster, > > and the color(s) really capture the bleakness for me. :) > > Is that the one with the Orcs running along the borders and Gollum down > on the bottom center? I LOVE that poster! No matter where I go, it > hangs above my bed. But I always thought that was Bilbo, not Sam. > > On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Ken Hyde wrote: > > > Urmmm. I hate to point this out, but Sam was changed profoundly by the > > Ring. That is why, at the end of his days he took ship from the Grey > > Havens and crossed the Sundering Sea. He was the last of the > > Ring-Bearers to pass from Middle-Earth. And there are indications in the > > last book that he was also changed by the Ring in terms of character, etc. > > His testing at Cirith Ungol was phenomenal because he was the only > > Ring-Bearer to ever deny the lure of the Ring on his own. Still, it is > > also true that he was very, very ordinary on the surface. > > > Urm, well, *I* hate to point this out, but you've got the wrong guy. :) > Frodo took the ship to the Grey Havens. Sam stayed home and raised his > children. And yes, Sam was affeted by the Ring, but while Frodo fell, > and Gollum before him, Sam never for a moment was tempted. He gave the > Ring back when Frodo demanded it without a thought (RotK 208). I believe > Sam was ordinary in the conventional way--he had no special powers, no > "amazing" abilities, but his power to love was such that the Ring held no > true power over him. You could certainly call that extraordinary. It's > probably why I love him. > > > Oddly enough, I always think of Thomas Canty as looking kind of > > Tolkienish. =) And since Tolkien did his painting a long time before > > Thomas Canty did his, I think we can safely say that Tolkien has prior > > claim to the style. As for Sam, I think that Rankin & Bass have a lot to > > answer for! Most people have this idea that hobbits are these round fat > > little creatures, but if you read the books and look at the descriptions > > carefully, you realize that the hobbits in the Company were not fat. They > > were all, including Sam, in very good shape as was typical of most young > > hobbits. > > > *Nobody* ever gets Hobbits right for me. Although this is true for > almost everything I read. I have my own ideas about how characters look, > and seeing an artist's conception of it gives me a headache. I try to > avoid looking at them too long. A few exceptions: Thomas Canty, John > Howe...a couple of others. > > > As to the bleakness of Tolkien's world, it was supposed to be bleak. > > After all, he was writing about the end of an Age, and the passing of all > > Magic from the world. All of Tolkien's works are concerned with the fall > > from grace. It is the same sort of bleakness that comes to permeate Lloyd > > Alexander's Prydain Cycle. And to some extent also shows up in Susan > > Cooper's "Rising Dark" cycle. Come to think of it, all of these series > > have their roots in the Celtic and Old Germanic traditions. Maybe that is > > the difference: Misty's writing, for all her wiccan touches, is not really > > rooted in the same tradition. She bases her writings on a idealized > > version of Medieval Feodality with a strong Rennaissance interpretation. > > And her work is further filtered by the fact that she is locating it in a > > very strongly revisionist fantasy literature tradition. Tolkien, > > Alexander, and Cooper worked from much darker and bleaker antecedents. > > Anyway, its a theory. > > > Well, that was my point. :) Part of the hold LotR has on me is because > of that bleakness. Not so surprising, I guess, if your Celtic/Germanic > theory holds true--that *is* what I am, after all. It's also part of the > reason I intend to go into Celtic Studies/Folkore. There's something > about that part of the world, that perspective, that spare, powerful joy > that pervades everything.... > > I took a course on the Philosphy of C.S. Lewis a few years ago (good > class, lots of interesting stuff) and he was a contemporary of Tolkien's, > I believe--a member of The Inklings at Oxford. Anyway, he wrote quite a > bit on the concept of joy, and it really hit home. You know the feeling > when you look at something really beautiful, or you're caught in the > grips of powerful emotion? That ache in your chest, the lump in your > throat, the emptiness just behind your heart? Lewis calls that Joy. He > says Joy is being able to feel the distance between yourself and > perfection, that ache you feel upon knowing that you will never be that > close to it. *That's* what I see in Tolkien's work, and in Kay's, and > what I hear in Irish music, and what I felt when I saw the ocean for the > first time. The pain that was worth enduring, that wove itself into the > fabric of my soul and became a part of me. The few moments in my life > when I really lived, when I was outside of myself and part of myself and > part of the universe all at the same time, were those moments of Joy. > > ObMisty: Do we see any dancing in Velgarth? Right now I can't recall any > at all, but I'm sure there must have been references. Wonder what it > would look like--and would they have established "traditional" dances? > Oh wait, they dance at Elspeth's Confirmation as Heir, right? And they > danced in pairs, so it must have been something like our Western style of > more modern waltzes and stuff. I still wonder what it would look like > though. > > Update on my eyes: those vibes must have worked! Thanks to everyone! I > saw the (apparently fabulously world-renowned and incredibly > important-- I dunno--they all look alike to me ) > specialist on Friday, and he said (in his very comforting southern > accent) that he's seen some other cases like mine and in most instances > it doesn't get any worse. It's not going to get any better, either, but > this I can live with. I was the subject of a national conference at the U > of M, and they all charged in to inspect me--talk about instant > popularity. So thanks guys! > > 's e do bheatha, > > Kaatje > Acolyte to the Goddess of Music and Song, Keeper of the Librettos > Knight of the OAM > Who is probably NOT going to go blind!!!!! Concerning Lotr: Lotr is my favourite trilogy so I had to put my two cents worth in. Sure it's bleak, it's a reflection of our own world. Supposedly it is our world in a very ancient past. I found a lot of joy in that world as well. For instance, staying with Tom Bombadil, Elrond's house in Rivendell, Galadriel in Lorien, The halls of King Theoden. It has a feeling of ancient grandeur for me. There's a lot of bleakness in our own world but if you look for it, you can find a lot of joy and beauty as well. Shadow Wolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:22:10 GMT From: Melanie Dymond Harper To: mercedes-lackey Subject: ADMIN: archive cockup, now fixed Message-ID: <199612161422.OAA11493-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Thy beloved Listmistress managed to do something profoundly strange to the permission settings on the archive directory on Friday, which resulted in the digests 1018, 1019, 1020 not being archived correctly; that problem has now been fixed and those digests restored to their rightful home. The recent.html file now reflects the current position, as well. Cheers Mel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:07:53 -0500 From: "Emily L Cartier" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: chocolate/names/Kaatje/the Archives Message-ID: <9612161611.AA18195-+AT+-udecc.engr.udayton.edu> Kory says: >Oh, they have chocolate. From the concordance.."CHOCOLATE: The pod, >and seeds of a tree that grows in the very southern portion of >Valdemar. This is very popular among the fops at the court, both for >the taste, and as a dsipaly of wealth and status. This is a very >expensive treat, usually consumed as a drink sweetened with a large >amount of sugar. This is a court affectation that the Healers disprove >of, not liking the stimulating effect of the chocolate, nor the sugar >used for taste. The main objective of the Healers is that stimulants >should be used with care, and not for frivolous displays of wealth." >Wow..I'm really in an Emulate Kenny mood tonight, eh?;> First off, I don't think the Arrows Concordance is canon. After all, Misty didn't write it . Besides, I don't care what the Concordance says about cacao trees growing in southern Valdemar, it just isn't possible! Cacao trees are a _tropical_ plant, and very delicate. Unless Valdemar has rainforests growing on the slopes of the Comb (not bloody likely) they don't have cacao trees and therefore, they don't have chocolate. Hmmph. Whoever did that Concordance is an idiot if they think that cacao grows in a temperate climate! Why else would Hershey be so interested in Belize? There are some cacao trees in ChocolateWorld at home, but the building contains an immense greenhouse that is carefully set up so that the poor trees won't die of cold. Actually, I doubt that cacao trees make up more than about 2% of the plant life in that greenhouse. All the rest is the shade trees (mostly banana palms) and ground cover needed to keep the cacao trees happy. Actually, I don't think we get to a place where they might have cacao trees until you get down to the realms of the Haigleigh Kings, and that's so far south that no one in Valdemar has ever seen a black person til Geyr comes up with the Skybolts. Usenames on the list. Actually, I've noticed that most people pick something vaguely Tayledras sounding or they do something funny to their real name. It doesn't really matter what you do, just so long as no one else uses the exact same name. Re: Kaatje's good news HOORAY!!!!! I'm so happy that you're not gonna get any blinder (is that a word?) than you already are!!!!! Thank you Auntie Mel for fixing the Archive! I was getting seriously worried when it still hadn't updated this morning. I was going to ask about it, but then you fixed everything! Hooray for Auntie Mel! Oh, and Kory, there's an error in the Concordance entry about chocolate. The pods are called (in full) cocoa bean pods, _not_ chocolate cause they aren't. Emily the invisible (can we _please_ stop all this chattering about chocolate, please? it really makes me homesick) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:03:51 -0400 From: John Hagen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lotr Message-ID: <32B572D3.1470-+AT+-snet.net> Sam was the last of the Ringbearers and passed over Sea in 1482 S.R. (Shire Reckoning) The textevd is in Appendix B, pg. 378 in the collectors edition with the red cover. To quote: 1482 Death of Mistress Rose, wife of Master Samwise, on Mid-year's Day. On September 22 Master Samwise rides out from Bag End. He comes to the Tower Hills, and is last seen by Elanor, to to whom he gives the Red Book afterwards kept by the Fairbairns. Among them the tradition is handed down from Elanor that Samwise passed the Towers, and went to the Grey Havens, and passed over Sea, last of the Ring-bearers. end quote. Regarding all three (or four if you count Gollum) Ring-bearers, each one was affected by the Ring. Gollum was given long life and the power to find out secrets. Textevd starts on pg. 62 of the FotR and continues at the top of pg 63. Bilbo was given long life. He was only tempted twice by the Ring. Once during the Long-Expected Party when he and Gandalf are talking and Bilbo must be persuaded to give up the Ring by Gandalf. Pg 41, continued to the bottom of pg 43, and again on pg 244. Frodo is tempted and succumbs to temptation on pg 233 of TRotK. In fact the only reason Frodo is saved from the Ring is that Gollums bites off Frodo's finger and is cast by the Ring into the Crack of Doom. Textevd is on pgs 223 thru 224. Samwise is tempted to become "Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age" and bring down Sauron. Textevd. is on pg 177 of TRotK. ObMisty: Strange, Misty has no people (other than villains) who are tempted by great power. The Heralds have power but don't necessarily want it. In fact, with the exceptions of Lores and Tylendel, you never see a Herald go through the temptations that Bilbo, Frodo and Samwise did. Lady Sara, Dryad Extraordinaire ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:39:54 -0600 From: singer-+AT+-iglobal.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Heather's Birthday/chocolate/3 questions Message-ID: Greetings to you, Wand-Sworn on this most wonderful of days. I have gifts for you. :-) The first is-a book. If you look a this book, you will see that it is a signed, limited edition hardcover of .....Swordspoint! And unlike *most* limited editions, this one has a lovely jacket painting of Richard St Vier that will change, at your will, to show *any* scene from the book that you might wish, in the smallest detail. And the book will open to your favorite parts, when you are in the mood just to read those. Next I give to you a new pair of riding leathers in your trademark shade of dusky rose, so that you better carry out your role of Wand-Sworn Champion to the Ladies and look buff *and* fierce doing so. I might add that they are Shin'a'in made (read people who spend lots of time in the saddle) so on the inside they feel like silk. And finally, because you can't wear leathers *all* the time, I gift you with a set of Kal'enedral silks, again in your trademark color, suitably beaded and decorated. Wear them as you wish, and in very good health!! And happy birthing day! May all be well in your tent on this and every day. %*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*% Um, about chocolate. There are lots of people out there who know about it and love it. Is there anyone who doesn't like it? Is there anyone who finds that premium chocolate from Austria leaves a nasty taste in his or her mouth? I am not saying that *I* do not like chocolate, so please don't hurt me. (sorry Heather, but considering recent discussions of the dark god that plea seemed appropriate. ) So I am not saying that I don't like it, I am just curious if there are such creatures. You needn't be afraid. %*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*% Ob Misty.... hmmm. Okay. (This is a real question.) What do you suppost Misty's couples talk about when they are alone together? Vanyel and Stef, Darkwind and Elspeth, Moondance and Starwind, Daren and Selenay....anyone you can think of. And what do you think Van and Stef said to each other when they first met in the Forest after sixty or seventy years apart? Oh, and did you ever get the impression that Savil and Jaysen were, hmm, *intimate* friends? So its *three* real questions. See what you can do with them. May Her light fill your hearts and Her peace fill your tents. Go Gently, Tresta %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Tresta shena Jor'ethan "Love must live free." Healer to horses -Shin'a'in Teaching Knight of Amber and Marigold %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% To be tired of horses is to be tired of life; horses are a gift to us." %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:00:09 -700 MST From: "Kathy Chadman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: another newbie Message-ID: <46D6903005-+AT+-sembilan.uchsc.edu> Hi all, I have been lurking for a few days trying to get my bearings, but I guess I had better introduce myself to avoid being rude. I also have to give my opinion on a few things. I really liked GGK's work. I found the Fionavar trilogy much more flavorful than Tolkien. I have enjoyed his other books too for the most part. Answer for the survey: BTS was my first book and I am not sure if I can pick a favorite. Kathy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:22:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Romylee A. Ejercito" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Floating and finals/ Chocolate/ Marius/ Ski Mask/ Kaatje/ Real Name/ Couples Message-ID: ~~Floating and finals~~ Firemist: gee, does that mean you don't float well? Romylee: Actually... I can't swim! Well I can, but my endurance is nil. I can do one lap, and that's it. Right now, I don't feel dense. I feel like there is nothing in my head, and if you poke a hole through it, air will rush in. Yep, in. I think there's a vacuum inside my skull. I just finished my organic chem finals (ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh). And I've got 6 hours to go over my Spanish stuff. And what am I doing? Checking e-mail of course! (The Temple of the Great God of Procastination is going to get very rich from all my tithes) Firemist, who is slightly giddy about being done w/ finals Romylee: Argh! I'm envious! /me sighs. Well, one more final and I'm done.... ~~END~~ ~~Chocolate~~ Cennydd: My main question (and warning) for Mylee was that if thou art allergic to cocoa products, thou must needs be wary of white chocolate too, since sooner or later thou wilt no doubt be offered the real stuff, which contains at least as much cocoa butter as its darker cousins. Romylee: Well, I hope someone gives me some real white chocolate soon. (I don't consider Hershey's to be real white chocolate - sheeps to Emily :>). And I'm not the one allergic to chocolate, it was Atropa, aka Dark Angel who was. Emily: Huh? who's chocolate have you been eating? The stuff from people who make that foil wrapped cheap stuff? Romylee: Well, I've had some of that too. And that stuff shouldn't really be called chocolate. Hershey's is okay, but the imported stuff is the best. Mmmm, Belgian chocolates.... Tresta: Is there anyone who doesn't like it? Is there anyone who finds that premium chocolate from Austria leaves a nasty taste in his or her mouth? Romylee: I know someone who gets migraines when she eats chocolate. I also know someone who doesn't really like it. She doesn't think it tastes bad or anything, she just doesn't like most sweet stuff. ~~END~~ ~~Marius~~ Kory: Marius wasn't a wimp, no...he was a very deep romantic. Romylee: Well, Cosette was a wimp, and Marius was in love with her, so in my book, that makes him a wimp. *grin* At the very least, he's a blind idiot who doesn't see that Eponine is worth a hundred Cosettes. ~~END~~ ~~Ski Mask~~ Kory: Merci, Mylee. I'll wear it whenever I wanna rob a bank;P Romylee: What Mat said. *grin* ~~END~~ ~~Wish for Kaatje~~ Kaatje Acolyte to the Goddess of Music and Song, Keeper of the Librettos Knight of the OAM Who is probably NOT going to go blind!!!!! Romylee: /me hands Kaatje a pair of self-cleaning contact lenses that will never irritate your eyes and will protect them from further harm. I'd really hate it if I went blind. I'd rather be deaf. I don't think I could live without being able to read. I know there's Braille, but not all books get translated that way. ~~END~~ ~~Real Name~~ Mat: And what's wrong with using your real name Dan? I use mine. The "Cat in Green" thing just got added on later, but my real name *is* Mat. Romylee: How about switching names? *grin* I have a horrible time thinking up of names I can live with so I stick to my name, or variations of it. ~~END~~ ~~Couples~~ Tresta: What do you suppose Misty's couples talk about when they are alone together? Romylee: Ummm, normal, ordinary, boring stuff? The stuff married people _do_ talk about? The stuff that never gets written in books coz it's so mundane? Tresta: And what do you think Van and Stef said to each other when they first met in the Forest after sixty or seventy years apart? Romylee: "Stef! Well, you've certainly changed! You look, uh, mature. But really, that grey hair _has_ to go." "Van! You look... pale. Why haven't you been eating?" ~~END~~ - Romylee Acolyte to the God of Procrastination Master of the Art of Being Dense ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ M. Ejercito rejercito-+AT+-wesleyan.edu I have one of the most brilliant minds on earth... BUT EDUCATION RUINED IT!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:31:58 -0600 From: singer-+AT+-iglobal.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: a question/SofI spoiler(somebody please read this) Message-ID: Bright the day, everyone. Earlier today someone wrote that except for Tylendel and Lores, Misty's characters were never tempted as Tolkien's were. Sara(h), could you explain to me how you think Tylendel and Lores were tempted? I am not asking in a mean way at all; I am really curious. Lores and Tylendel made mistakes, big ones, but I wouldn't say that they were "tempted" by anything. Unless perhaps you mean that Tylendel was "tempted" to use his mage-gift to cause harm, something Heralds must never do. But I maintain that Lendel was over the edge. No temptation was involved here, just a young boy in unimaginable pain striking out. *Yes* it shouldn't have happened. Tylendel made a horrible mistake. But it *was* a mistake, IMVHO, and not something darker, or temptation toward something darker. As for Lores, I really can't think how he was tempted. He also made a bad mistake in attacking Tashir and Ghost, but he did that in a very physical way. The weakness of his Gifts was part of the problem, there. So please, could you explain what you mean? :-) S W O R D OF I C E S P O I L E R I've read about halfway through the book. and I have a couple of questions already. But I though it was neat that our discussion and speculation of "ordinary" people was addressed/answered a bit in this book. We have a story in which someone who though she should have been Chosen wasn't, and how she reacted to that. We also have a story about someone very ordinary who is Chosen, and thinks she *shouldn't* be. This story also addresses our thread of "do the Chosen ever say no? " What bothered me about this story, "A Child's Adventures" was the ending. The grandmother (who was Chosen by Thea) and the granddaughter just climb onto Thea's back and ride toward home. WHAT HAPPENED??! Just before, Grandmother is telling her Companion that she should have Chosen the girl, then they just ride away. Left me hanging in a *horrible* way. Did she accept Thea, or not? Did she become a Herald? And deep in my gut...."HOW could you turn down a Companion? How could you turn down her love? How could you look in those blue eyes and deny her? I felt so *bad* for Companion Thea, I hurt for her that her Chosen wouldn't accept her. Listsibs, I never knew I felt so strongly about this. I guess no one's ever turned it down before....but I felt *awful* about it. So, what I want to know is, what do you all think happened? I think this will haunt me until I get some kind of answer, so I hope somebody reads this. I may have more after I've read the rest of the book. Go Gently, Tresta %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Tresta shena Jor'ethan "Love must live free." Healer to horses -Shin'a'in Teaching Knight of Amber and Marigold %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% To be tired of horses is to be tired of life; horses are a gift to us." %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1021 **********************************