MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1051 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Elspeth by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 2) Amber and Marigold/This MUSIC QUESTION! by vrondi-+AT+-juno.com (Chrys A Dean) 3) Ah, what I meant to write was ..... by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 4) Re: Heralds/Country vs Le Musiques Autres by Ken Hyde 5) Books in the Wings/Shaych by rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Rozanna J. McNeer) 6) Re: Elspeth by rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Rozanna J. McNeer) 7) first braid: Elspeth by rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Rozanna J. McNeer) 8) Re: Books in the Wings/Shaych by "Sera" 9) Eek! Another newbie/Question/Roald-Rolan by KaitlynSM-+AT+-aol.com 10) Re: Apology -- more Heralds by davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker) 11) Riverdance, Just a note..... by Mrocro-+AT+-aol.com 12) Re: Heraldic Culture by "JAIME HATHAWAY" 13) FLUFF country songs by rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Rozanna J. McNeer) 14) Sword of Ice/self-esteem/music by MorningStar 15) Re: [REPOST] Auntie Mel's Rules Of Thumb! New Users PLEASE read! by "Myka S." 16) Velgarth accents/Juno/ by vrondi-+AT+-juno.com (Chrys A Dean) 17) Gwena:Misty's Books and Short Stories. by "Rex T. Garretson" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 16:38:52 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elspeth Message-ID: <9701091638.AA19836-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > No, the Companions definitely were NOT telling her the whole story, > nor was Gwena honest with her. This has always troubled me. Didn't > Yfandes say to Vanyel, when he was asking her if what she said was > her real opinion, > :Of course it is! You know I can't lie mind-to-mind!: Which is of course *completely* useless in establishing whether it's true; If Yfandes can mindlie about her opinion, she can certainly mindlie about whether she's able to mindlie... Just like Lennier in Babylon 5, really :-). -- _|_ Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) / | Hemel Hempstead, UK jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \_|_ www.selune.demon.co.uk (soon) \__/ ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:47:07 est From: vrondi-+AT+-juno.com (Chrys A Dean) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Amber and Marigold/This MUSIC QUESTION! Message-ID: <19970109.114900.8303.0.vrondi-+AT+-juno.com> > HTH > Wand-Sworn Champion to the Ladies of the Pink Wand > Grand Dame of the Order of Amber and Marigold HTH, what is the "Order of Amber and Marigold" ???? ____________________________________________________ All this argument about what music for the movie! GEEz! people yer drivin' me nuts here! Misty has ALREADY written music to go with all her series and most characters. TA-DA! there's yer movie music. when the Valdemarans sing, it "ballads" and such like =folk music. Or, if it were to be rock-like, what about Tempest? gee, you know, that Celtic rock band that already did an entire album to go with one of her series? hmm... oh, yeah, those guys... sorry to be so snappish, but this was deteriorating into a defense of everyone's favourite music, and with this comment from Emily: > I don't care how bad the > accent is, it annoys me! > bigotism> I can see the pending "no accent is any more vaild than another" talk on the horizon. Being from West Virginia, I have been through it all to often. And I have heard both sides, but the internet is one place where no one will assume I am an idiot when they hear my accent. So, I'll shut up now... -Vrondi "We really only need two things in life: Duct tape to make things stop, and WD-40 to make them go again." http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/book ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jan 97 17:59:10 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Ah, what I meant to write was ..... Message-ID: <9701091659.AA03181-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> hola, I've just noticed (does everyone immediately read their own mail to the list when it appears?) that I've written "non-straight heteros .." - what I meant to write was non-heteros. Ah well, what would a non-straight hetero be anyway? ciao ciao, Esmeralda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 12:12:52 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Heralds/Country vs Le Musiques Autres Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, Emily L Cartier wrote: > I beg to differ! Now, now. Let's keep our regionalisms under our hats, shall we? (I am tempted to say "under our big ugly hats" but then remember that you're not from Texas .) =) (oh and btw, since that is my regional accent that you are running down, I'll fire off a micro-snipe and point out that "le musiques autres" is not correct. It should be "Les (pl.) autres musiques" or "les autres styles de musique." So there! =P *Phblatt!* *giggle*) > Most of them have audible Southern accents. This is generally true of most *American* country singers. It is also very true of many American rock singers (can you say, B-52's, boys and girls? How about REM? What about Melissa Etheridge? Oooo, the list goes on). However, it is signally not true about Canadian country singers unless they have chosen to adopt an American Southern accent. And of course, there are quite a few non-Southern country acts (Mary-Chapin Carpenter comes to mind). And of course, Tejanos have their own accent which owes much to Texan, but is also hispanic. > Metal (and other rock style music) generally features a Northern > or British accent, and I _am_ a Northerner (with a British > not-grandad), so I don't hear the accent. What is a Northern accent? I ask this, because there really isn't a unified "Northern" American accent. And frankly, the only distinct accents I have ever heard in Rock or Metal were either Southern or NY/North Jersey accents. Well that and BEV (which is very strongly related to the Southern dialects of American English). BTW, am I the only person who thinks that American singers who have a "British" accent are unbearably funny (in a pathetically pretentious sort of way)? Anyway, I guess this needs some ObMisty. Is there any evidence for accents in Velgarth. For example, do Tayledras vales have different accents? They would, if they were in the real world. I think that I remember something in one of the Arrows books indicating that there were social dialects, but I don't remember if there were regional ones. -----Other stuff: Hmmm. Let's see. Welcome back to all the returning list-members. A special shout-out for the Shadow-Lover: "Hey there, you cuddly little spirit of Death, you!" On the subject of Elspeth, I would like to say that I think Heather put her finger on one of the things that bothered me about Elspeth in the Winds series. I personally don't mind the idea of self-sacrifice implicit in the concept of Heralds, but I do strongly object to Elspeth's refusal make a choice between her duty and her privileges. Either she is a princess and Herald (and must live up to the duties of those positions) or she isn't (in which case, she should have quit). I mean, if you are royalty (the good kind, at least), your privileges and benefits are bought by your sacrifice of self. You don't get to pick your lovers, friends, spouses, etc. Your relationships are picked for you, for the advantage of those you rule or represent. And if you are given an order by your queen, you don't decide to do something else. You obey. This sacrifice of self-direction and choice is the only thing that justifies the many perks (in terms of creature-comforts and luxuries) that go along with royal or noble life. Otherwise, you are just a parasite, battening on your subjects without returning fair value. Elspeth seemed to be heading down that road. Now, I'll be the first to admit that she did manage to pull out of it. I don't think that she is a despot or anything like it. Still, I do think that Heather is right that Elspeth continues to play off both ends against the middle. She manages to manoeuver into a position where she gets to keep all the perks without any of the sacrifice. Sure, she has responsibilities and, yes, she does work hard and do a lot of dangerous things, but she doesn't do anything that she doesn't want to. And just because that is what happens in real life, doesn't mean that I like it or that I like Elspeth. I dislike it intensely in RL and in fantasy (although, I also have to admit that I rather admire her skill at getting what she wants--she is *very* good at it). Let's see, anything else? Oh yes, that horse thing. Was that really necessary on this list? It is off-topic and a local political issue. That really is one of the things that is mentioned in the FAQ as a "do not post." Don't get me wrong, I like horses (stir-fried with lots of garlic, chili paste, and bok choy greens). However, I just don't think that this is necessarily the place for local politics. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me **http://www.udel..edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:26:34 EST From: rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Rozanna J. McNeer) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Books in the Wings/Shaych Message-ID: <19970109.112708.3390.2.rozanm-+AT+-juno.com> Icesong said: >WAIT--I am beginning Black Gryphon and it shows the other two in the series as >"coming soon from Daw books" or something like that. Have they been written? >Will they ever be, if not? they have been written, fear not! WG is out in paperback and I ~think~ SG is too (I've got the HB copies of both so I didn't bother checking on the PB dates) no, the ones we are eagerly waiting for are _Owlflight_ and _Black Swan_, not to mention the other Di Tregarde books!!!! **************** Icesong also said: >(2) Shaych? Wuzzat? ummm, Icesong? How long have you been reading misty? how many of her books have you read??? sorry - Shaych is the Valdemaran pidgen contraction of the hawkbrother word 'shay'a'chern' which means homosexual (the literal translation is "lover who is like one's self with sexual connotation on self" as Savil put it). It is in the Last Herald Mage series which you MUST run out and buy and read RIGHT NOW! /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Firemist rozanm-+AT+-juno.com Lore-Mistress of the Cat People Goddess of Made From Scratch Foods Bower Denizen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:26:34 EST From: rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Rozanna J. McNeer) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elspeth Message-ID: <19970109.112708.3390.0.rozanm-+AT+-juno.com> Jacquelle said >No, the Companions definitely were NOT telling her the whole story, >nor was Gwena honest with her. This has always troubled me. Didn't >Yfandes say to Vanyel, when he was asking her if what she said was >her real opinion, >:Of course it is! You know I can't lie mind-to-mind!: >So how is it that Gwena was able to be dishonest with Elspeth? Do >Grove-born Companions have some kind of exemption from honesty? >For that matter, off the subject, is Fandes implying that there IS a >way for her to lie? Of course, if she can't lie mind-to-mind, how >can she lie? That's a valid point. (btw, i think it was Van that said that when talking to his father about medren and not having sex w/ minors etc.) HowEVER telling only ~part~ of the truth can be just as misleading as lying -- a person can very easily sift through the facts a present a choice few that would make the situation appear to be completely different than it really is. I mean, for example, if I say to the list 'I just moved here from the Netherlands', I'm certain that anyone who did not already know I was an American would assume I was Dutch. I think that is the way the Companions are able to deceive their Chosen -- by only presenting a few facts which will be misinterpreted, or by not saying anything at all. OTOH, the thing that really bothered me about Gwena was when Elpseth found out she had been communicating with Rolan and and asked her if she had any other capabilites which Elspeth was not aware of. Gwena said no. Later, Gwena pulls out the power-feed capability, which naturally makes Elspeth go balisitic -- after all her Companion had been withholding information that might have saved lives AND she had lied to her. I think this is in WoC, but my book is on vacation. Can anyone look it up with textevd??? (looking mock-fearfully over her shoulder for the textevd monster) just teasing Cenn!!! /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Firemist rozanm-+AT+-juno.com Lore-Mistress of the Cat People Goddess of Made From Scratch Foods Bower Denizen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:26:34 EST From: rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Rozanna J. McNeer) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: first braid: Elspeth Message-ID: <19970109.112708.3390.1.rozanm-+AT+-juno.com> I LOVE JUNO! I can BRAID!!!!! yippee!!! ahem, sorry 'bout that. just in raptures over a new mailing program.... ****************** Meg said >The fact of birth does not automatically make >one self-less and willing to sacrifice ones life for the Greater Good. Any >comments?? Not for the child of any royalty -- but the Heralds are supposed to be 'self-less' and 'willing to sacrifice ones life (and self) for the Greater Good'. Elspeth was Chosen ergo she should demonstrate these qualities. And she does later on in the Storms Books, and in WoFury, but in the first 2 Winds books she comes across as petulant and sulky (slipping back into Bratly behavior) which is not exactly what I would consider Herald-like behavior. I am not saying that Heralds do experience selfish feelings, but these feelings hardly ever interfere with their duties. The prime example of selfish feelings is Lendel (obviously). He was selfish, he was repudiated. Elspeth is selfish, but everything turns out okay. Would someone explain it to me??? (wail) I wanted to go somewhere with this, but the thread slipped my mind! more Elspeth from Kimerly: >you can't say she was that way all the time, that she was selfish, rotten, >and brattish ~all the time~? Did she say she wanted to stop being a >Herald? Or did she say she wanted to stop being the Heir, an heir who >wasn't as qualified as so many of the glamorous people around her? well, I don't know which time-frame Heather was using, but I am referring only to WoFate and some few parts of WoChange -- after all, a good novel is SUPPOSED to have character growth in it, and if Elspeth hadn't grown in any way (like being made aware of her attitudes by Darkwind) then Misty would not be a very good writer, some of us would stop reading her stuff, and the mailing list would dwindle. . . ::grin:: but she did, and she is, so we do, and we're all still here! *giggle* Nope, I was referring to her rather flashy putting of foot down and heading for Hawkbrother territory, shucking Companion advice to the wind. Both she and Gwena really needed to ~discuss~ things instead of flaring attitudes at each other. >You ~do~ argue with the commander if you have more experience and you >think the commander is going to get you killed, needlessly. But Kim, no Companion would ever send anyone off to be killed needlessly. > This isn't a relationship where the Companions should be ordering the > Heralds around, when they think something's up. Amen sister! Gwena had several faults, but OTOH her being a Companion was ~supposed~ to have made her a bit more knowledgable than Elspeth, and better able to guide/advise her. Instead, Gwena's status seemed to go straight to her head (I'm a Companion and therefor INFALLIBLE!!!) which made Elspeth mad (after all, Gwena appeared v-e-r-y condescending at times, which would drive ~me~ straight over the edge) and the whole thing went in a downward spiral from there. > A good commander tells their men what's going on so they don't panic them, >and Gwena was, as Van said, young and apt to make mistakes ::snort:: Gwena was a real pain in the butt, you mean. Gwena didn't help Elspeth grow -- Elspeth grew in SPITE of Gwena. No the real problem is the lack of character continuity from Arrows to Winds. Arrows Elspeth was not selfish, had seen something of the world (running liason between kero and Selenay, Talia at the hands of Ancar, murdering Orthallen) and Winds Elspeth seemed to have backslid quite firmly into bratly behavior with no concern other than herself and her way. Gliothoniel said: >Childish, you said of Elspeth's behavior. You are absolutely right. Elspeth >didn't really grow up until after Darkwind dressed her down about her >outrageous ego. She'd never been cut loose before. Spoiled by the Heraldic >Circle and by her overprotective Mother(yes, Selenay was very >overprotective), poor Elspeth hasn't had a chance to mature. Maturity isn't >something you reach at a certain age (you are now 18 yrs old--*ZING* you're >an adult!). yes, but she was acting very mature in AFall, wasn't she? The point is, she backslid, and no one really seemed to a) notice or b) care if they did notice. :whew: that was rather longish so, how was my first braid, Kory??? /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Firemist rozanm-+AT+-juno.com Lore-Mistress of the Cat People Goddess of Made From Scratch Foods Bower Denizen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 12:17:00 CST From: "Sera" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Books in the Wings/Shaych Message-ID: <1F9C77170EC-+AT+-email.rosary.edu> >Icesong said: >>WAIT--I am beginning Black Gryphon and it shows the other two in the >series as >>"coming soon from Daw books" or something like that. Have they been >written? >>Will they ever be, if not? > >they have been written, fear not! WG is out in paperback and I >~think~ SG >is too (I've got the HB copies of both so I didn't bother checking on >the PB >dates) > >no, the ones we are eagerly waiting for are _Owlflight_ and _Black >Swan_, not to mention the other Di Tregarde books!!!! > OK, I actually have an answer that I can post (sorry too much sugar at lunch). SG is out in PB. Being a poor college student I am forced to buy all my books in PB and I own SG. Hope that answers your question! Sera * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Truly madam, you have a dizzying intellect." The Princess Bride "On the road of knowledge we all walk in life, Watch out for the speedbumps!" Me "Men are the infinite loops in the computer program of life." Kathy Becknek * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Liz Blaszak blaszael-+AT+-email.rosary.edu http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/3772/ (708) 524-6997 X2076 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:01:37 -0500 (EST) From: KaitlynSM-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Eek! Another newbie/Question/Roald-Rolan Message-ID: <970109135652_1559434797-+AT+-emout12.mail.aol.com> Heyla all! I've recently joined the list, and thought I'd introduce myself. I'm Kaitlyn, and if you want anything more specfic than that, I'm putting a bio on the list's Website. But for now, I think it's enough that you know my name and that I'm a Misty fan (the latter is obvious, anyhow), and if anything else about me is pertinent to what I say, I'll let you know at the time. :) Well, now that that's out of the way.... I was going to respond at length to some of the existing threads, only to discover that everything I might have said had already been said by someone else. ::sigh:: So I'll just give a brief sketch of what I agree with among the various opinions (yes, I do know how to braid, but that would make this even longer, and everyone knows what's been said by who anyhow, I hope): Elspeth/control by Companions: I think Elspeth was acting a bit bratty in the beginning of the Winds trilogy, but with cause. I agree that she was "growing up" during the books. As for Gwena, I think the same can be said about her. As Vanyel said (I think it was him- I don't have my books here), she's young, too, and she makes mistakes. Yes, it was wrong for her to try to manage Elspeth and keep her in the dark about everything, but I think (I hope!) that she's grown, too, and won't act that way in the future. Heralds: I agree with whoever said that it's in the Heralds' nature to sacrifice their lives/freedom for the good of Valdemar (doesn't 'Lendel try to explain that to Vanyel early on?). That's probably why they're Chosen in the first place. And they're not fed the "glorious death" myth- at least, not after they become Heralds. Alberich and Kero would quickly disillusion them, if no one else! Movie Casting: Yes, Adrian Paul as Darkwind.... Hey, I'd be happy to have him as anyone (okay, maybe not ANYone- somehow I can't seem him playing, say, Selenay or Elspeth), just so he gets lots of screen time! ;) OK, that done, here's a question (questions?) I have (forgive me if this has already been discussed to death before I subscribed to this list): At least once in the books, someone recounts the story of how Companions came to be- you know, when the first King did the spell/prayer and the first Companions appeared in the Grove. Since the King *was* praying, does this mean that there was some deity responsible for their coming into existence? I know that Valdemar is a land with many different faiths, so *which* deity was responsible? One thing that always stuck in my mind was from _Oathbreakers_. When Tarma and Keth go to Valdemar to retrieve Prince Whatsisname, Valdemar's Heir (oh, I'm bad with names... was that Roald?) and his Companion meet the Star-Eyed, who says something like "Well met, children of my other self." Her *other self*? Does this mean that the Companions were created by an aspect of the Star-Eyed? (I hope none of this was explained in _Storm Breaking_- I haven't read that one yet.) Also.... OK, feel free to (nicely, please) shoot me down if something in here is wrong- it's been a while since I've read the earlier books, and I don't have them with me, so I can't check on this. Someone said earlier that maybe the current MOC, Rolan, is Roald reincarnated. Well, that can't be true if Roald is the king I'm thinking of- Selenay's father. The MO before Talia was Herald to Rolan, and MO to Roald before Roald died and Selenay became Queen, so Rolan came out of the Grove before Roald died. Thus, he can't be Roald reincarnated. (Besides, I think that Grove-born Companions are said to be "new" spirits, which means they aren't anybody reincarnated.) Oh, one last thing.... Cennydd said: >Let's see, anything else? Oh yes, that horse thing. Was that really >necessary on this list? It is off-topic and a local political issue. >That really is one of the things that is mentioned in the FAQ as a "do not >post." Don't get me wrong, I like horses (stir-fried with lots of garlic, >chili paste, and bok choy greens). However, I just don't think that this >is necessarily the place for local politics. Ugh, I hope that eating horses thing was a joke. I mean, I'm not a vegetarian, and so I don't have any right to criticize, but.... I just can't stand the thought of a horse being slaughtered for food- same with dogs and cats. Just a personal opinion- I'm not trying to offend anyone, and like I said, I haven't a right to say anything about anyone's preferences. But I, personally, don't like the though of eating a "companion animal." Besides, it wasn't a very nice thing to say to someone who is obviously a horse-lover. As for the posting of the horse message.... I know it says in the FAQ that we aren't supposed to post nonMisty things, but if it's really important to us, short, and especially if it's only part of a longer post that has Misty stuff in it (I have no idea if this one was, I'm just giving an example), isn't it okay to do that once in a while? As for this being a matter of local politics- actually, I think it sounds like an issue that animal-lovers everywhere should be concerned about. Are human rights violations in some third-world country in the middle of nowhere just "local politics"? Just because it isn't happening in your area, doesn't mean you can't/shouldn't care about it. The person who posted the horse message in the first place probably figured that getting people from all over, including people in other countries, to write to the government to try to get things done would be more affective than just a local campaign could be. That's my $.02, anyway. Well, that's all for now (and quite a bit more than I originally intended- sorry!). I'm pleased to be part of this list- you all seem like a great bunch of people, and it's really refreshing to find a list where people can discuss things intelligently without flaming each other. Just goes to show how exceptional Misty fans are! :) WTTW, Kait Hey, how come *I* don't have any neat titles? :( Are these given out, or can we adopt our own? KaitlynSM-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:04:01 -0800 From: davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Apology -- more Heralds Message-ID: <7pS1ywHqhdlP088yn-+AT+-cet.com> Here I go, venturing to stick my neck out again... Actually Heather I agree with much of what you say, I'm just overwhelmed with a compulsion to pick nits here. 8-{)# "Hth." wrote: [snip] >Look, I'm willing to do some of the work of >government myself; I'd *rather* do it myself than assign some nebulous >group of strangers to do all the work and make all the sacrifices in >order to make my life easier. There are the Guard, the non-heralds at Court who take their position seriously, various regional leaders (even Withen) who make sacrifices and do as much hard work as any Herald. >Nobody ever seems to look out for the >Heralds, even though they spend their whole lives looking out for >everybody else. Ahem. Gaytha, Mero, Levris. Perhaps even the Weatherwitch? And the workers who accompany Tedric when he goes to find Talia & Kris? "fact is Herald, old Tedric's a good enough sort, but he don't belong out here. He's too old and his heart's more'n a mite touchy" Doesn't sound like the common clay expects Tedric to kill himself in their service! >That said, I will admit that no one is completely free, and sometimes >sacrifices have to be made for the greater good. It just seems like a >pity that it's always a handful of people making the sacrifices on >behalf of everyone else. But that's the way it's been in every era and culture I know of, a few paying the price for the heedless majority. >And I resent the way they're controlled, the >emotional blackmail, if you will. I'm not at all sure that they have >the choice. I expect Misty would explain this with some sort of circular reasoning like "but only people who *will* accept would be the type to be chosen." Pfhagh! [snip] > Usually people are so dazzled by the >soulbond experience that they seem -- uh, like they've been hit on the >back of the head with boards, Just couldn't resist, huh? 8-{)# [snip] >the book I'm writing. It's that question of, to what extent are you >obligated to value other people before yourself? In all things, all the >time? And if not, where do you draw the line, when do you need to value >yourself as much as you value others? It's hard. This is one of the central questions that face any one who wants to live with others, in fact, I'd go so far as to say that it is a problem basic to all society. And also that the USA has gone to far in the "value yourself" direction, it can, and IMNSHO has, degenerate into "F**k you Jack, I've got mine." One of those wonderful fine lines, drawn in shades of grey! >But I really do >believe there comes a time when devaluing yourself isn't right, that >hurting yourself isn't right, and that each individual is precious in >and of himself and deserves the chance to be free and to live a long, >fruitful life. I'm not sure it's possible to deal with some of what you're talking about in the abstract. If I had to die to save my wife and daughter I would, I hope without hesitation. However, I wouldn't kill myself with overwork just to be sure that my daughter had the latest trendy fashions. Matter of degrees here. David Tiffany, Gdo fot yopos PS About 15 years ago a friend of mine and I wrote "The Quintessential Country Song" Oh you broke my heart, (twang, twang) so I broke yer jaw. (twang, twang) Then I got in my truck, (twang) and I drove home to Ma. (twang) Actually, it was more like 18 years ago, I was still living in Ioway ("that's where the tall corn grows") at the time. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:10:09 -0500 (EST) From: Mrocro-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Riverdance, Just a note..... Message-ID: <970109140906_37838101-+AT+-emout19.mail.aol.com> This is just a note. Everyone has been discussing music. I agree the the Celtic type of music would fix the best. I saw Riverdance when it was here in Chicago, Loved it. It was absolutely the best things I've been to in a long long time. If you have not heard any of the music. I suggest you get it. I had Lift the Wings played at my father's funeral this Christmas. It is a song that can literally make you cry. Just my input. Khrysa Songweaver aka chris olson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:00:38 CST From: "JAIME HATHAWAY" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heraldic Culture Message-ID: <2770936ECC-+AT+-future.judson.edu> Actually, this is in response to Yfandes lying mind-to-mind. I think that Vanyel asked her if she was telling the truth, not because he doubted her, but because he needed validation for whatever it was about. I'd've included the post, except that I accidentally deleted it. Jacquelle "You broke your little ships." Lily to Picard Star Trek: First Contact ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 14:59:20 EST From: rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Rozanna J. McNeer) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: FLUFF country songs Message-ID: <19970109.140015.16246.1.rozanm-+AT+-juno.com> The Gid said: >PS About 15 years ago a friend of mine and I wrote >"The Quintessential Country Song" > Oh you broke my heart, (twang, twang) > so I broke yer jaw. (twang, twang) > Then I got in my truck, (twang) > and I drove home to Ma. (twang) >Actually, it was more like 18 years ago, I was still living in >Ioway ("that's where the tall corn grows") at the time. Actually I think my all time fave was 'what happens when you play a country song backwards? you get a job you Sig. Other comes back your truck works again your dog comes back from the dead your doctor gives you a clean bill of health as you no longer have tears in your ears from lying on your back crying over anything! country fans, don't hurt me! /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Firemist rozanm-+AT+-juno.com Lore-Mistress of the Cat People Goddess of Made From Scratch Foods Bower Denizen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:19:40 -0800 From: MorningStar To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Sword of Ice/self-esteem/music Message-ID: <32D560EC.748C-+AT+-geocities.com> First of, please disregard my last question about Sword of Ice. I was at the mall today so I chose to ask the bookseller about it and she dug it out for me. Haven't finished reading it, of course... Bridget-who-normally-lurks said that getting Chosen "fixed" the self-esteem problems of the Chosen, along with removing them from their old lives. While I agree that it helps by removing them from their former circumstances, I don't agree that it fixes the self-esteem. After all, it was Talia's low self esteem that caused her to not tell anyone when the Blues were bothering her. And Vanyel definitely had his share of self-esteem problems. Just my two cents, though. Music: Just thought of this one. Blues Traveler's "Just Wait" goes with most Companion bonds to me. Just the unconditional love in there and the implication of wait, things will get better... It speaks to me, and I love the song. Well, that's all I have to say for today! Enjoy yourselves and don't work to hard! Star ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 15:32:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Myka S." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: [REPOST] Auntie Mel's Rules Of Thumb! New Users PLEASE read! Message-ID: Jake posted, quoted from Mel: >>"Read the FAQ. The relevant section is posted here semi-regularly;it's also available via the Web, via FTP, or by mail. Web: http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/lackey_list/lackey_faq.html >> Hmm....I didn't find the FAQ at _quite_ this address...I found it at Web: http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/lackey_faq.html Just thought I'd clear this up, and now I'm waiting for 15 people to tell me I'm wrong ;P _____________________________________________________________ Mykalanthis, White Winds Journeyman, Merc for hire. ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 15:27:58 est From: vrondi-+AT+-juno.com (Chrys A Dean) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Velgarth accents/Juno/ Message-ID: <19970109.152800.2127.0.vrondi-+AT+-juno.com> Ken wrote: > Is there any evidence for accents in Velgarth. Yeah, there is! jus' a minute, lemme look it up... grrr, can't find it at the moment, but didn't Sherril or Keren one lapse into their childhood accent once when they were comforting Talia or someone? So, didn't Lake Evendim have their own accent? ________________________________________________________ *Vrondi hi-fives Firemist! "hooray for Juno!" * ________________________________________________________ -Vrondi "We really only need two things in life: Duct tape to make things stop, and WD-40 to make them go again." http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/book ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:40:36 -0600 (CST) From: "Rex T. Garretson" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Gwena:Misty's Books and Short Stories. Message-ID: Greetings and salutaions to everyone on the list. Hope everyone had a good time over the holidays. I got back from the holidays and checked my email and I had about 612 messages. But, we had a power surge in the library and i lost them all! On the issue of Gwena and lying: I believe Gwena cannot lie. She can leave out important information but she can't lie. This question comes up many times in the Robert Jordan series The Wheel of Time. The Aes Sedai give oaths on some type of magical object which disables the ablity to lie. But, knowing humans they have found ways to get around that(hey they have been at it for over three thousand years). The Aes Sedai has taken half-truths and leaving vital info out (spelling??) to an artform. I think that the same is true of companions. About Gwena's powerfeed ability, maybe she didn't really think of it as a capability but as something she did naturally. You know how sometimes you can be doing something that no one has ever seen you do before and they are amazed but you are so used to the skill that it is just natural?? I am being vague. OK here is the listing of books and short stories I have. Someone asked me for them but i lost their email address.{*No Release Date) (The Heralds of Valdamar series:) Arrows of the Queen Arrow's Flight Arrow's Fall (The Last Herald-Mage series:) Magic's Pawn Magic's Promise Magic's Price (The Mage Winds trilogy:) Winds of Fate Winds of Change Winds of Fury (Vows and Honor series:) Oathbound Oathbreakers (The Mage Wars Trilogy:) The Black Gryphon The White Gryphon The Silver Gryphon (The Mage Storms trilogy) Storm Waring Storm Rising Storm Breaking (Kero's Story) By the Sword (Diana Tregarde Adventrues) Burning Water Childern of the Night Jinx High Arcanum 101(NRD*) Triangle Park(NRD*) (Bardic Voices) The Lark & The Wren The Robin & the Kestral Four and Twenty Blackbirds(NRD*) (Bardic Choices) A Cast of Corbies w/Josepha Sherman ["This" Universe Sacred Ground The Fire Rose (w/Ellen Guon:) Knight of Gost and Shadows Summoned to Tourney Beyond World's End(NRD*) (The SERRAted Edge series) Born to Run w/Larry Dixon Wheels of fire w/Mark Shepherd When the Boung Breads w/Holly Lisle Tempus Fugit(NRD*)] (Wing Commander) Freedom Flight Other Collaborations: Reap the Whirlwind w/C.J. Cherryh (Book 3 of The Sword of Knowledge series) The Elvenbane, and Elvenblood w/Andre Norton (The Bard's Tale Castle of Deception w/Josepha Sherman Fortress of Frost and Fire w/Ru Emerson Prison of Souls w/Mark Shepherd) The Ship Who Searched w/Anne McCaffrey If I Pay Thee Not in Gold w/Piers Anthony Rediscovery w/Marion Zimmer Bradly Tiger Buring Bright w/Andre Norton & Marion Z. B. Short Stories A Different Kind of Courage Set A Thief Object Lesson Poetic License Sword Sworn A Tale Of Heroes Keys The Making of a Legend The Talisman Wings of Fire A Woman's Weapon Friendly Fire A Dragon in Distress w/ Lisa Waters Werehunter DeathAngel & Merovingen Ecology A Plague of Your Houses A Tangled Web We Weave More Than Meets the Eye Merovingen Folklore Turning Point Don't Look Back & Friends Like These Proving Ground Fiddler Fair Balance & Dragon's Teeth A Friend in Need Phantom of the Berry Patch Skitty Nightside Roadkill Satanic, Verusus Killer Byte The Cup and the Cauldron Last Rights w/Larry Dixon Dumb Feast Dance Track w/Larry Dixon A Tail of Two Skitties Jihad Once and Future Hallowmas Night Wet Wings (* ed. by Marion Z. B.) Free Amazons of Darkover* Renunciates of Darkover* Domains of Darkover* Snows of Darkover* Sword and Sorceress III* S&S IV-XII Tales of Witchworld Vol. 1 ed by Andre Norton Merovingen Nights1-Festival Moon ed. by C.J. Cherryh MN2 Fever Season MN3 Troubled Waters MN4 Smuggler's Gold MN5 Divine Right MN6 Flood Tide MN7 Endgame Magic of Ithkar 3 ed by Andre Norton Spellsingers ed. by Alan B. Newcomer Winds of Change-Blood of Ten Chiefs, vol3 ed by R. Pini Catfantastic ed. by A. Norton MZB Fantasy Magazine #6,#9,#10,#23 Grails:Quests, Viitations and other Occurrences reprinted as Grails:Quests of the Dawn Dinosaur Fantastic ed by M. Resnick & M.H. Greenberg Christmas Ghosts ed by Mike Resnick By Any Other Fame ed by MR and MHG BOLOS:Honor of the Regiment created by Keith Laumer Catfantastic III ed by A.N. & M.H.G. Alternative Warriors ed by MR Excalibur ed by R. Gilliam, MHG & EE Kramer Lammas Night ed by Josepha Sherman Sisters in Fantasy 2 I may have missed some so tell me if I did. Rex Garretson aka Belrex rtg1-+AT+-ra.msstate.edu ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1051 **********************************