MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1064 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Hurdy-gurdy/Music Theory/Companions/other stuff by Lynne Markova 2) there's just so much here... by Liseth-+AT+-aol.com 3) Heralds Dying / Loonies / Quick Notes by Shdwflt-+AT+-aol.com 4) Correction on Goddess of Valdemar w/textevd by "Shy Kraytman" 5) just a note to prove I'm still alive by Eleonora 6) by Korendil 7) stuff by rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Rozanna J. McNeer) 8) Re: just a note to prove I'm still alive'm by SEANSQ-+AT+-aol.com 9) Kellan: Male or Female? by Aimee Dowd 10) Re: Goddess of Valdemar by skarzin-+AT+-soonet.ca 11) sick kittens/Holderkin/FAQ by Faranheit-+AT+-aol.com 12) Somethings old & somethings new by Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com 13) Re: Punk rock by Chris & Sean Talbot 14) Retraction and explination by Joshua Jones 15) Re: Kellan: Male or Female? by Chris & Sean Talbot 16) Re: Heralds Dying / Loonies / Quick Notes by Chris & Sean Talbot 17) Amber order by "Katie P." 18) Re: Deities (Mistyan) by "Katie P." 19) Re: sacrifice by "Katie P." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:37:53 -0800 (PST) From: Lynne Markova To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Hurdy-gurdy/Music Theory/Companions/other stuff Message-ID: Lady Sophia emerges from a Groves music dictionary, and replies: My apologies to whomever requested Divine Aid for the definition of a hurdy-gurdy. This is from Groves: "1)A medieval instrument, shaped like a lute, played by street musicians, with a crank that causes a resin-covered wheel to scrape across the strings. Informal - any musical instrument played by turning a crank, such as a barrel organ." So, a hurdy-gurdy is not a bowed or a wind instrument, and is definitely *not genteel*. RE: "Dictating Music" It is entirely possible that there are no orchestras or conductors in Velgarth - but I seem to remember there was some sort of fanfare played, when Elspeth had her banquet as Heir in AFlight. Also, if you have more than a chamber-group's worth of musicians, it is very hard to keep in time and in dynamics, unless you at least have a *leader.* Velgarth does obviously have a written system for musical notation, and does not rely exclusively on oral tradition. RE: Companions/manipulation I realize this thread is just about over, but I really think the Companions do tend to go overboard in some cases in this "manipulation stuff" - especially Gwena, in the Winds trilogy, or Rolan, when he blocked Talia's memory in AFlight, but, then, sometimes they *don't* interfere when they might need to - i.e. Ahrodie seemed to be quite passive when Dirk was drinking himself into near-oblivion, as someone else has already mentioned, and Gala did not seem to tune in when 'Lendel went off the wall. This reminds me quite a bit of the Deryni in Katherine Kurtz' last few books - she has her characters doing quite a bit of gratuitous meddling with others' minds and beliefs - all for the Greater Good, of course. Personally, I find that appalling - and, in some cases, quite a bit like frontal lobotomies. At what point do they Deryni (or the Companions) cross the line? I remember one scene in a recent book, where they actually sent someone deliberately to his death, after inserting controls which would force him to behave the way they wanted him to. Made my blood run cold. To an extent, the Companions can do the same thing - but they don't seem to be as free with their controlling behavior. the only example I can think of off the top of my head is when they forced Selenay to let Elspeth go "mage-hunting." (extended brass fanfare) Based on some private correspondence I have had with Lady Lydia (and with the approval of Lady Adrianne, my High Priestess), I now Name her to be Priestess of Brass Instruments, and present her with a gold-plated French horn, and a CD of all of her favorite brass and band pieces. Her duties will be to maintain the Celestial Collection of Brass Instruments, and the band portion of the Celestial Discography. Have a nice weekend, everyone! Lady Sophia, trilling away Goddess of Music and Song ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:42:35 -0500 (EST) From: Liseth-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: there's just so much here... Message-ID: <970117184234_302160152-+AT+-emout12.mail.aol.com> Warning SB in this part. Feel free to skip to next section. (This part is really short) To all those who commented on the empire in SB: Actually, I wasn't to happy with the whole book. I can see the trying to run parallel plots; Misty seems to like doing that. But usually sooner or later those two plots unite. I can't see two parallel plots running throughout a novel and never meeting: It might as well be two (or in this case, three) separate books. Oh, well. -----------************ Part of Megan's sig: >"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two >opposed ideas at the same time and still retain the ability to function." > --F. Scott Fitzgerald This is like the tea/no tea thing in the game for the hitchhikers guide, isn't it? ----------------*********** Catchfire commented: >called dianetics, which states something like "...Memories reach back before >the moment of conception to previous lives or existences even in non-human >forms or on planets elsewhere in the universe, and if these memories can be >recalled without pain or emotion an individual will be freed to develop his >personality or 'beingness'..." Something like that, I don't have it right Sounds like somethbning I can relate to, kbut then I've always claimed to be a martian. I don';t thinlk my family believes me. --------------********** Sera asked: >Though, I would like to know how to become a goddess....that I >haven't figured out yet and would love to be so if anyone can help me >on that one I would be most grateful! Send a private petition to Cennydd, the Avatar of Nomenclature. Make sure it's not public, he doesn't acknoledge public petitions. Include a bri-- er, tithe. I'm currently waiting to be acknowledged myself, I hope my mail got through... ---------******** Seanna wrote: > In Helsinki the pacifist/vegetarian/green fringe identifies very >strongly around punk. Maybe in Helsinki, but I happen to be a pacifist/vegetarian/green and I don't identify well with punk. Maybe the music gets in the way... -----------******* David (Giuld of typoists): Can I join the guild? I make so many typoosa that the key I press most is backspace! ---------******** Cennydd wrote: >Well, I think that they are actually large sculptures created out of >marshmallow fluff and blueberries and animated by Beings from the Beyond >the 10th Dimension! > >Can you prove that I am wrong? =) Yes! They don't melt in the rain and if they were made from marshmellows they would! Liseth ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:08:34 -0500 (EST) From: Shdwflt-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Heralds Dying / Loonies / Quick Notes Message-ID: <970117200833_240197105-+AT+-emout14.mail.aol.com> I wrote: (apropos Heralds dying for their queen and country) > These people know what to expect, possible death, injury at the hands > of the enemy. They aren't mislead, they're given the chance to back out and > they do it willingly. And I don't think that's callous at all. And Esme replied: <> I don't think that Valdemar is drafting these Chosen unwilling. I bet if someone really DID want to back out of it, they'd let them. It just doesn't seem consistent. But on the other hand, *impish grin* I said that Valdemar *gave* them an out. Choice in theory, but perhaps not a choice in practice. ===== Rozanm-+AT+-juno.com wrote: << I don't know who wrote this, but don't feel lonely, your not the only newbie on the list. I still don't know what I am doing. One word of advice, don't write in one liners. Someone got flamed for that. (we are not all loonies)>> Yes we ARE! We just hide it well. Don't listen to her.. we're all completely bonkers!!! Quick notes: -- Remember folks, try and keep .sigs to quasi-usenet standards. I think it's four or six.. not fifteen. Thank you in advance for complying to the list's Rules of Thumb. If you are unsure about the Rules of Thumb and you are new, please take a look at the list's web page for them. -- Misty Magic Cards? One word: Aiee! *runs away* I was a SLAVE to that game before I realized it was costing me too much money. (And I have oooooodles of cards here. They're great for my fireplace. Especially the Alphas..) -- Jake Adamo (Shdwflt-+AT+-aol.com) --- Mercedes Lackey Informational FAQ Administrator; Vice-President, Staten Island Science Fiction and Fantasy Association; Fantasy Novelist; Toyseller; Beloved of 'Reesa; Bard Champion of the Ladies in Green and All around Good Guy. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Jan 1997 01:05:50 -0000 From: "Shy Kraytman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Correction on Goddess of Valdemar w/textevd Message-ID: <19970118010550.2423.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Someone (I can't remember any names!!!) corrected me on writing that Van served the Goddess of Valdemar and asked me for evidence and I've finally found it!!! I was wrong (oh well. . . ) It's in chapter five of Winds of Fury, when Van formally introduces himself he says "I am still in the service of the Goddess and Valdemar" I guess I just substituted 'of' for 'and'. However, when he says 'the Goddess', he seems to mean a specific one. Is it the Star-Eyed? She rules the Dhorisha plains and I don't think she has much power to influence events in Valdemar (Misty often states that Gods have to play by the rules.) So what Goddess would Van be serving? 'hawk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wind to thy Wings Shy Kraytman Lonehawk-+AT+-hotmail.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:53:06 -0300 From: Eleonora To: Mercedes Lackey Subject: just a note to prove I'm still alive Message-ID: <32E03B12.571C-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy> Heyla listsibs! First of all, a warm welcome to all the newbies around. Feel free to email me (infodyn-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy) if I can help, though I am sort of newbish myself, having been on the Misty list since the beginning of November, I will be mre than happy to lend a hand or help point you in the direction of someone who can. I have been less than lurking lately since first I had chickenpox and felt too miserable, and now I have to catch up and clear the backlog on my desk and on my mailbox. So, I am trying to read the posts I missed. Sort of. Esme said: >'s a funny thing - I read SoI last night, (awful cover with the >usual Bambi eyed, Disneyesque Companion), and in the story about >Savil meeting Whossisname, her Companion Kellan is a "he". Now, I'd >always assumed from the Magic books that Kellan was a mare - either >because Kellan strikes me as a female sort of name, or it's made clear >somewhere. Anyone? I had exactly the same problem with that story. I could have sworn Kellan was a she, maybe because of her gossiping with 'fandes in teh way two old grilfriends would be expected to? I don't really have texteevd handy. Just the general feeling that Kellan is female. Most definitely female. And I don't think the SoI issue is a typo, somehow. I get the feeling of a Male Kellan there. Well, guess I'll have to reread those stories. And I am not sure it is a typo either. But that is once more a feeling.  Sandy wrote: > Thanks to all who gave me kitty suggestions. We have been wrapping them > in towels to administer the drugs and that seems to be working best for > all involved. They seem calmer that way. I am glad your kitties are better, Sandy. Hope they are all right soon :) Love, Ele Priestess of Karma LotPW Dame of OAM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:47:52 -0500 From: Korendil To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Message-ID: Okay, this is real short, since I'm tried and have vids to watch and reports to do....but two lil' things: 'hawk said: >"I am still in the service of the Goddess and Valdemar" I guess I just >substituted 'of' for 'and'. However, when he says 'the Goddess', he seems to >mean a specific one. Is it the Star-Eyed? She rules the Dhorisha plains and I >don't think she has much power to influence events in Valdemar (Misty often >states that Gods have to play by the rules.) So what Goddess would Van be >serving? >'hawk Well, according to the Concordance (which I'm taking as canon until someone gives me hard evidence NOT ot think of it as so), Astera is a Warrior-aspectless...well..aspect..of Kal'enal. As is the Lady mentioned when Valdemarans say "Lord and Lady!"...so she DOES have influence there--and imo, Kernos and the Lord are Vykandis or Vykaendis or 'tever ye' wanna call 'im;> Ele said: >I had exactly the same problem with that story. I could have sworn Kellan >was a she, And you and the others are TOTALLY correct. As I happened to have Pawn resting next to me, as I have since looking for that Who-Can-Do-Gates quote, here's one example: pg. 255 daw pb MPawn "Instead, she waited for Kellan to come to a dead halt, and clambered onto her back anyhow, her bedgown rucked up around her legs." Now, while that pronoun technically could mean Savil, I truly doubt Auntie can clamber onto her own back;> Korendil-who-is-not-using-his-sig-until-he-gets-around-to-doing-a-minor-bit-of-e diting-and-maybe-even-totally-redoing-it ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:20:23 EST From: rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Rozanna J. McNeer) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: stuff Message-ID: <19970117.232032.9102.1.rozanm-+AT+-juno.com> Jake wrote: >>Rozanm-+AT+-juno.com wrote: > ><< I don't know who wrote this, but don't feel lonely, your not the only >newbie on the list. I still don't know what I am doing. One word of advice, >don't write in one liners. Someone got flamed for that. (we are not all >loonies)>> >Yes we ARE! We just hide it well. Don't listen to her.. we're all >completely bonkers!!! uh, Jake? 'twasn't me that said that. . . /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Firemist rozanm-+AT+-juno.com Lore-Mistress of the Cat People Goddess of Made From Scratch Foods LotPW and Bower Denizen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:49:30 -0500 (EST) From: SEANSQ-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: just a note to prove I'm still alive'm Message-ID: <970118004929_1725081700-+AT+-emout14.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-01-17 22:20:16 EST, Eleanora wrote: << I have been less than lurking lately since first I had chicken pox and felt too miserable, and now I have to catch up and clear the backlog on my desk and on my mailbox. >> Oh you poor baby!! There's nothing much worse than the Chicken Pox. I remember when my first child got it, I assumed that the second would too so I promptly went out and bought paint to redo my kitchen. I figured that since I would be a prisoner with nothing but spots before my eyes for 3 weeks at least, I would at least get something out of it. Glad you're feeling better,,,,this too shall pass. +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Now let's see, here's a welcome to Catarina, Nightdancer and Megan We're glad to have you here at the asylum and in case you've been wondering, the inmates are truly in charge! No, really, we're always happy to have new blood on the list -----oooops I mean we're always happy to have newbies join in the discussion of all of Misty's creations. Wow, you can tell that the hour is late and the brain is numb! Here's a special pair of reading glasses for each of you that you can wear when trying to impress your parents/friends/significant other that you are studying, when what you're really seeing behind the glasses is the latest book of Valdemar!! Yup, the brain is numb!! What I mean is, you hold your wonderfully fascinating Biology text but what you REALLY see is the book you want to read. Guess I'd better quit now. Meg Assistant to God of new homes, specializing in Neighborhood Welcoming committees. in training for Knight of Amber and Marigold ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 97 01:09:47 EST From: Aimee Dowd To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK Subject: Kellan: Male or Female? Message-ID: <970118.013159.EST.AIMEDOWD-+AT+-UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> In LHM Kellan is definately female. As someone said (I forget who -- I've been a little too delete-happy recently), in MPromise the so-called "Shin-ai-in warsteed" keeps trying to force his attentions on 'Fandes and Kellan. And doesn't Van or someone -- maybe Stefan, I don't really remember -- keep referring to the two Companions as "ladies"? But anyway, Kellan's definately a she, so it was either a typo in SoI, or whoever wrote that story just had his details wrong. Easy enough to do, I suppose. ObMisty: So Van, Stef, and 'Fandes got to hang out in the Forest of Sorrows after they died, right? What about Gala? MPawn makes it pretty clear that Gala was wrong to repudiate Lendel -- he wasn't evil, but insane. Before that the two were as close as any herald/Companion team. Shouldn't they have had the chance to reconcile in the Afterlife? The Companion/Chosen bond seems really strong to me; maybe not as strong as a lifebond, but pretty darn close. After all, Companions don't outlive their Chosen, do they -- like Anne McCaffery's dragons. So it seems unfair to me that Van gets the company of his Companion, but 'Lendel/Stef is denied his. Or maybe, since the bond was broken when she repudiated him, he won't miss her much? +=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* Aimee Dowd * Outside of a dog, a book The University of Georgia* is man's best friend. Inside Department of English * of a dog, it's too dark to read. aimedowd-+AT+-uga.cc.uga.edu * -Groucho Marx *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 02:59:03 -0500 From: skarzin-+AT+-soonet.ca To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Goddess of Valdemar Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970118025543.00676588-+AT+-soonet.ca> Heyla All! On Jan. 18, 'hawk wrote: >However, when he says 'the Goddess', he seems to >mean a specific one. Is it the Star-Eyed? I'm pretty sure that Van isn't talking about the Star-Eyed. In Oathbreakers, pg. 181, the Star-Eyed says to Roald, "Vai datha - so, young princeling, your land forges white Swords, that fit the same sheath as My black, eh?" (gasp, the Star-Eyed is Canadian, eh?) On page 182, She says, "This is a good land, yours. It deserves good servants, strong defenders - vigilant champions to guard it and hold it safe as My Hands hold Mine. Do we not all serve to drive back the Dark, each in his own fashion? So I cry - well met, Children of My Other Self! Her Twin? What's the name??? Anybody? ------------------------------------------------------------ Welcome to all the newbies!!! There are so many, I can't remember all the names. Sandy, I'm glad that the kittens are feeling better. Regards, Michele Goddess of Botanical Blight ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 03:58:07 -0500 (EST) From: Faranheit-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: sick kittens/Holderkin/FAQ Message-ID: <970118035806_946565674-+AT+-emout03.mail.aol.com> Sandy, glad to hear your kittens seem to be getting better. I hope all the advice everyone's given you helped. I know I didn't contribute anything, but I hope my well wishing was enough. And I hope it's over soon.(the sickness,I mean) I just wanted to know, exactly what's wrong with them? You also mentioned about the Holderkin in a recent post. (I couldn't check my mail recently, semester just started) In AF,Talia mentions that the Holderkin hold their lands as long as they obey the laws and the queen. So, to me, that seems to imply that they couldn't just decide to declare themselves a seperate nation because they violated the terms of their agreement. Unless of course, they pack up and leave again, since that's how they got settled in Valdemar to start with. They were fleeing religious persecution. Whoever's doing the FAQ, good luck! Personally, I think that it would also be a good thing for newbies to go through the old digests. That's what I did. So they could get a good feel for the way things are here. Well, I'm off to bed. It's pretty late. Several used bookstores are going out of business. WAAAAAAAAAH! Soon, they won't be around any more. The only good thing about this is that everything in those stores is on sale. I've bought a great deal of books for 50% or 75% of. And a few paperbacks for only 25 cents. Still, I'd rather have those stores around than sales. No, take that back, I'd rather have those stores around *and* have the sales. Peony Knight of the Order of Amber and Marigold Lady of the Pink Wand ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:43:01 -0500 (EST) From: Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Somethings old & somethings new Message-ID: <970118044301_173174257-+AT+-emout10.mail.aol.com> Some of this is ancient and some of it is just old. What else would you expect from the Goddess of Tardiness?. ******* On the casting question--I can't think of the right actress off hand for Hulda but it has to be a someone with Large Bossoms(Roseanne? Nah!) For Firesong how about the actor who played Ra in Stargate. He was also in The Crying Game. I just don't remember the name. ******* Woodlark said: >>the concept of a grim Death is pretty Christian/Western if i remember correctly<< Not in my version of Christianity(Southern Baptist--God help me). I was taught that death was a passage. For a Christian, Christ is there to guide you through(example: from the hymn He Leadeth Me. "E'en death's cold wave I will not flee, For Christ through Jordan leadeth me."). If anything, death is a welcome event for the Christian. It means you get to go to Heaven and be with God and get that long list of questions answered ("There the tears of earth are dried/ There its hidden things are clear"). Or are you thinking in terms of the book of Revelations? Death in the end time is a horrible force but only for the unclean sinners left behind(I'd put a grin behind it but it would seem slightly blasphemous. This is not a bias against anyone else's beliefs, just a statement of the general Christian belief about the end of time). ******* Esme wrote: >>Vrondi has mailed with a argument saying the mindspeech requires a sender and a receiver, - yes I can buy that, but there are times when Talia really, seriously could do with a helpful word or two<< Three reasons: 1) Companions aren't supposed to interfere unless their Chosen ask for help. (remember that this is Pre-Gwena. Grove-born do have influence over the other Companions. So when Gwena interfered with Elspeth, she dragged the other Companions with her. Either that or they didn't like to dispute the authority of a Grove-born Companion). 2) Now wouldn't it be a lot more boring story without the angst? I mean really, angst is part of what keeps a reader glued to the book. It creates emotional interest in the story--so if the plot fails a little, you keep reading to see if they ever get together sort of thing. 3) Real people act that way, especially those with low self-esteem(Talia is naturally humble and Dirk is, let's face it, homely). Emotion is illogical and often unmanageable. People tend to suffer it rather than just ask flat out. Course, a little judicious banging of heads against walls by friends who see the situation doesn't hurt any either. Why didn't Kris DO something? He knew how Talia felt and had a good guess about Dirk's feelings. So, why didn't he smack his buddy across the head and say "You big dummy!! Its you she loves and wants! Now go handle it!"? Keren does finally talk to Dirk, but she does it badly. The poor man is delirious with fever. Sometimes there just aren't enough busybodies in the world! (I should know. I am one.). ******* Emily wrote in response to the discussion on Tayledras name repeats: >>What about Firesong? One of the Tayledras in LHM was named Firesong, and was a female scoutleader... And then of course there's the Adept of El's time.<< Not picking on you Emily, its just that your comment was handy. Haven't ya'll heard of family names? We have names that get passed down from generation to generation. For example my middle name, Leone, belonged to my great grandmother, my mother and now to me. I kept it instead of my maiden name when I married. Both my nieces are named for grandmothers or great-grandmothers. Thats just two examples--I could go on endlessly with family examples. So why couldn't a Tayledras choose the an ancestor's name that fitted them well? ******* Jake asked: >>Holy wars on Earth were Big Things (the Crusades, for one) and active conversion of populations were practiced by practitioners of some religions here during their early days (settle, colonize, preach, convert!) Why didn't this happen in Misty's world? Or, why isn't it so prevalent?<< There is a huge difference in the religions on Velgarth(that we've seen) and the two faiths involved in the Crusades. Basically, there were two strongly monotheistic religions each claiming the same area(personally, I always thought the Muslims had more right to it than the Christians at that point--no ruffled feathers please, I'm not talking about current Middle Eastern politics). What made it so bloody was the strong personal faith on both sides. Each side believed that it would be a blessing to die in so holy a war. Now consider the Karsites. They waged a Holy War on Valdemar for centuries. It wasn't what Vkandis wanted but rather what a greedy false Son of the Sun wanted. It wasn't as bloody because it was one sided. Valdemar is defending themselves not seeking to gain supremacy over Karse and convert the infidels. Its about the only instance of Holy War I can think of on Velgarth. ******* Jerry wrote: >>I guess that the lack of crusades probably boils down to a similar explanation - active deities can make it quite apparent to their clergy exactly where they're interested in recruiting followers - if they don't want to expand, any unauthorised crusade leader is likely to end up as a grease spot on the floor...<< Actually, at some point in either Winds or Storms doesn't one of the Avatars mention that there is an agreement that gods not operate out of their territories? I know I saw it I just can't remember where. Drat! ******* Cennydd said: >>Romance? That is just plain weird! I truly enjoyed that book and I love Hamilton's writing (I buy her stuff as soon as I see it). But I would not ever think to call it "Romance" and especially not "Bloody Bones."<< Have you read any Romance lately? Some of the stuff they publish under romance these days could fit just as well in suspence, horror, or fantasy. For example Mary Stewart's novel _Touch Not the Cat_ deals with limited telepaths(talk about dream lovers!). Barbara Michaels has dealt with everything from ghosts(Ammie, Come Home) to slips in the time continuum(House of Many Shadows). Even Harlequin is putting out something called Intrigues. From what my sister-in-law has told me of the plots, they might actually be interesting. Many of Lackey's novels could be considered romantic fantasy. For instance, how does Elspeth & Darkwind's relationship forward the plots of the Winds trilogy? The only significant thing it precipitates is Elspeth giving up her place as Heir. She may have done that anyway to be able to fully serve Valdemar. They could just as well have been casual lovers or very good friends. ******* Later Cennydd wrote: >>Apparently being emmissaries of the gods does not mean that Companions have any quarantees about moral decisions. So they aren't "angels" (who do have such guarantees, since they are the messengers of God--if you believe in that sort of thing, of course).<< The main difference between angels and Companions is that Companions are spirits confined to a mortal body. Angels are not mortal in any way shape or form. They are the immortal servants of God. They are also sexless and possibly without freewill. Companions are guardian spirits and so are some angels. I think angels are more comparable to the avatars or the leshya'e-Kal'enedral. ******* Heather commented: >>(And guys, if the "well, I would've felt the same way" argument excuses Elspeth's insubordination/treason, I'm going to expect it to excuse Vanyel's melancholy.)<< Absotivly! Posilutely! I wouldn't have done half as well as he did. I would petiton for knighthood in the Order of Amber and Marigold at this point; but I must confess to occassionally wanting to shake him until his eyes rattled. I guess that would constitute grevious bodily harm to the uninitated. Those sort of threats are just expressions of regard in my experience. ******* Liseth said: >>And about the whole adepts and nodes debate, yes, only adepts can use nodes, but I think all the Tayledras can,<< All Tayledras mages can and do tap into their vale's Heartstone. The Heartstone is magically controlled node. So the magic is nominally tamed. Only an adept can handle a "natural" node. I think most of this comes up in WoC, when Elspeth is learning magic and they are dealing with k'Sheyna's warped Heartstone. ******* Liseth commented on the homoeroticism in IwaV: >>Maybe I'm blind, but I didn't see this. Of course, I *haven't* read the book.<< I've never read the book either, but I caught the sexual dynamics. No, I don't think you're blind. At the time I thought I was seeing things that weren't there--too many literature classes. ******* Kory wrote about part of his sig line: >>Well, actually, we're going to Duel o'er it;> I thought I'd save my self the trouble and just leave it there, so when the Duel finishes, instead of having to retype the whole thing, I can just delete the Acting part;> << *shaking head and frowning* being just a little conceited aren't we? Well, here's a proverb for you: Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall. Have a care, the imp of the Perverse is Everywhere. ;} ******* Sandy asked: >>What if a group - like the Holderkin - decided there WAS a one true way, it was THEIR way, and they no longer wanted to be part of Valdemar, they wanted to be their own, independent country with their own beliefs.<< Interesting question. It really depends on whether they were planning to pick up and leave or if they wanted their corner of Valdemar ceded to them. Picking up and leaving, the Monarch has very little to say about. Declaring their own corner to be an independent country is something entirely different. They don't even have an official entity as a state, territory, or province do they? They are just a cultural region. Officially they are on their land by the grace of the Monarch of Valdemar. So, sucedeing just wouldn't be possible for them. ******* Say a prayer (or whatever you prefer as equivalent) for me. It looks like I'm gonna have to go back to job hunting next week. My new job has postponed the starting date twice. I just can't afford to be left dangling forever. Take care all! Glithoniel Goddes of Tardiness -- Mistress of Willowhawk(in exile) -- Lady of the Pink Wand "WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?" --Death in _Reaper Man_ (Terry Pratchett) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:29:52 -0500 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Punk rock Message-ID: <199701181729.MAA00798-+AT+-nemesis.idirect.com> >Sorry all, no Obmisty this time. Though I've been wondering whether >Misty's writing starts looking more juvenile and silly when we grow >older and more cynical? It seems to me that unlike Tolkien, Bujold, >OSC, Varley, Cordwainer Smith, Bradbury et al. Misty's books are very >much tied to being teenaged (the same age as her protagonists). OTOH, >Misty's stuff is more main-stream than most "serious" SF&F, and so >more easily digested by teenagers... I must disagree with you. I am a fan of both Misty and of Tolkien. I was all of 14 when I finished Tolkiens books and found them very childish and the writing very juvinile. Not saying I dislike them, but it was easy to understand everything that happened. In Mercedes Lackey books it seems that it is getting more into juvenile literature but no where near as bad as Tolkien. I have read quite a bit of novels by many authors. Misty has one of the best abilities to make you feel what she wishes while authors such as Tolkien didn't even stir that much of a respsonse in me. I mean during certain scenes in the Arrow Books I put it down because I thought they were so sad. The third book especially. Tolkien just doesn't have any ability to write in emotions. That is why I thought it was more juvenile. Misty doesn't seem as juvenile because she puts little twists into her stories which you wouldn't think of happening. Aistes ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:08:03 -0500 From: Joshua Jones To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Retraction and explination Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970118180803.006708c0-+AT+-ntr.net> In "Braideing Shadows" I made a statement of: "Not to mention the blatant fact that hollywood is a patriarchial breast-and-backside (PC) society that frequents lesbians, but frowns on serious faerie-folk" It seems this has raised a few eyebrows as well as called the wrath of various dieties of justice and Pride down upon me... In the above statement I was not, repeat *NOT* discrediting lesbians in any way shape or form... I'm many things, but a hypocrite is not one of them... :) To restate that I should say that Hollywood seems to be more comfortable with lesbians in a serious role (i.e. Bound, Boys on the Side, Color of Night, etc.) than gay men... Most movies involving gay men tend to be of the comedy genre, such as Pricilla, Jeremy, Too Wong Foo, and The Birdcage... All of which were excellent movies, but it, to me at least, tends to satirize and downplay gay men in America as well as emphasize many of the misconceptions about gay couples (#1 being "Which one of you is the man, and which one the woman!" ARG!!)... Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting to see "The Mirror Has Two Faces" with Cruise replacing Babs, but it would be nice if Hollywood would stop being so anal about the whole thing and stir things up like they usually do! It would have been just as bad had they made a love scene between Cruise and Pitt (not that I would have minded the scene, but the idea behind it is what I'm addressing :), but innuendo is a powerful force, and there would have been no harm in leaving it where it was in the Vampire Chronicles. Thoughts? - Shadow-Lover ************-=Vanyel-+AT+-ntr.net=-*********** * Don't ever be afraid * * To open up your eyes * * So you can see tomorrow * * Let it go * * And you will fly away * * - Merill Bainbridge * *************-=IRC: Vanyel=-************* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:37:58 -0500 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kellan: Male or Female? Message-ID: <199701181937.OAA07179-+AT+-nemesis.idirect.com> > ObMisty: So Van, Stef, and 'Fandes got to hang out in the Forest of >Sorrows after they died, right? What about Gala? MPawn makes it pretty clear >that Gala was wrong to repudiate Lendel -- he wasn't evil, but insane. Before >that the two were as close as any herald/Companion team. Shouldn't they have >had the chance to reconcile in the Afterlife? The Companion/Chosen bond seems Okay Gala wasn't wrong to repudiate Lendel because of the insanity he was suffering from made him take revenge at the cost of all else. I believe they said that someone besides Sayvil thought he would be worth his whites if he hadn't been driven past all sanity into following revenge at the cost of all else. That was why the companions rang the bell for him. >really strong to me; maybe not as strong as a lifebond, but pretty darn close. >After all, Companions don't outlive their Chosen, do they -- like Anne >McCaffery's dragons. So it seems unfair to me that Van gets the company of >his Companion, but 'Lendel/Stef is denied his. Or maybe, since the bond was >broken when she repudiated him, he won't miss her much? First thing even though Stefen and Lendel are the same soul they wouldn't have the same memories. Not even Vanyel figured out that they were one soul. Second of all it was Stefen who was with Vanyel in the forest. Stefen never had a chance to know about his companion bond in his previous life. The reason I say that is because they only talk about the lives they had before they went in to sorrows. That is the one where Stefen was the bard. So it seems that the person who makes gives them there memories back in the time did not want Stefen to realize who he once had been. Aistes ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:38:01 -0500 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds Dying / Loonies / Quick Notes Message-ID: <199701181938.OAA07196-+AT+-nemesis.idirect.com> At 01:20 AM 1/18/97 GMT, you wrote: >And Esme replied: ><> Arrows of the Queen. Reread the part where Talia is talking to Selenay about her being chosen. I don't have the page handy or the book handy. They can back out of being a herald. We know that they know what they are getting in to. In the orientation room as well (Arrows of the Queen) They were talking to Griffin, Drake and Edric and Talia about being Queens Own or Kings Own. The dangers as well and Teren asked if anyone wanted to leave. >But on the other hand, *impish grin* I said that Valdemar *gave* them an out. >Choice in theory, but perhaps not a choice in practice. As I said up in the previous paragraph about Talia talking with Selenay as well as the trainies with Teren. I don't have my book at home so I can't check them up. If someone has Textevd could you please check it out for me and post it. Aistes ------------------------------ Date: 18 Jan 1997 20:07:30 -0000 From: "Katie P." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Amber order Message-ID: <19970118200730.11107.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Fireheart wrote: >I've also missed things like the Order of Amber and Marigold... that must have >been formed during my abscence... DO TELL ME!! ;-) Fireheart, don't feel left out. I have no idea what is going on either. I am new to this thing, and it is confusing at times. By the way, Shaca saw your message and has bonded with you. She is a crested hawk-eagle. She is six months old. Zhai'helleva Nightdancer Breeder of Bondbirds Sulena says she hopes your bonding will be a happy one and that you will never need another bondbird. --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 18 Jan 1997 19:56:26 -0000 From: "Katie P." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Deities (Mistyan) Message-ID: <19970118195626.10391.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Jake wrote: >Misty's concept of deities seems to show that the more believers they have >the stronger they will be. It's a concept used often in some fantasy books. >Holy wars on Earth were Big Things (the Crusades, for one) and active >conversion of populations were practiced by practitioners of some religions >here during their early days (settle, colonize, preach, convert!) Why didn't >this happen in Misty's world? Or, why isn't it so prevalent? Is there an >explanation? Or is this all explained in Storm Breaking which I haven't read >yet? Please, comment.. I'm curious. Karse has been converting, sort of. If you did not belive in their religion and would not change, you died. Valdemar's number one law is live and let live. It is a law that has been around since the very begining. They talk about it some in AOQ series. The first book. Talia is talking to some one about it. In SW, Talia is telling Karal about the law, and Karal thinks about how in his country, everyone would just keep on killing people of other religions, since they thought it was their god given right. Nightdancer Breeder of Bondbirds --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 18 Jan 1997 20:24:56 -0000 From: "Katie P." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: sacrifice Message-ID: <19970118202456.13608.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> >Nightdancer wrote: ><just a callus. Then why even have Heralds. You wouldn't for long anyway. The >Companions would all leave.>> Jake wrote back: >Well, I think a noble sacrifice for the greater good is more what we're >talking about here; in the case of the Heralds, instead of just throwing >people away, like Ancar did. Heralds are "crack troops" of a sort who should >be prepared for their own death in the line of duty. No, she said she would not have held back. And Heralds should not be prepared for death. They should understand that it could happen, and be hopeful. To be prepared for death sometimes means the death of hope. They should hope for life and be thankful for it. It is the same thing with cops. I know some, and they know they might die and accept that, and go on with their lifes. They know that it may happen, but more likely it won't. Nightdancer Breeder of Bondbirds Valis has bonded with you. He is a goshawk. He is five months old. May your bonding be happy. --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1064 **********************************