MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1070 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Braid: Weather/JH Valspeak/Trek fluff/OAM/Ascension/SoI/More by Rogue Phoenix 2) bday/rogue/bondbird/ahri! by "David Morgan" 3) Lying / general quality of writing by "Hth." 4) Re:order..... by vrondi-+AT+-juno.com (Chrys A Dean) 5) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1068 by "Catarina " 6) Re: bday/rogue/bondbird/ahri! by Rogue Phoenix 7) lying/texevd for FireRose by dyanalynn-+AT+-juno.com (Dyana L Rose) 8) mind to mind Lying by jheft-+AT+-ACAD2.dana.edu (Jason Heft) 9) Mpawn/Van lookalikes/greetings/Swords of Ice by ahri-+AT+-juno.com (Erika Plajer) 10) Birthday stuff by Deniz 11) Re: mind to mind Lying and computer systems by "H.D. Wegemer" 12) Re: Emotional Tolkien/OOPS/Tremane by Brian Bennett 13) overdone plots/lying/Choosing/Tremaine/LHM blurb/Zaleka/names & sigs by Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> 14) Virus Alert by William L Pomeroy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:18:07 -0500 (EST) From: Rogue Phoenix To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid: Weather/JH Valspeak/Trek fluff/OAM/Ascension/SoI/More Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, miyako hirao wrote: > Chantal quoted: > >>>"A man's gotta live. Sometimes living is messy." --Jake Sisko<<< > > YAYAYAYAY!!!!! *The various denizens of the list sigh, "Oh, no.... Here she > goes again...." as they whip out the silly-fluff-proof suits* > > I *hope* you quoted that because you like DS9. I'm an avid Next Gen > Trekaholic, and I think pretty much everyone knows here.... And plus, > Cirroc Lofton is a cutie, and my non-Trekster bud agrees with me -- though > he thinks CL could use some muscle. > > Silly Star Trek Lightbulb Joke: > How many Q does it take to change a lightbulb? > > One to hold it and the rest of the Continuum to turn the universe. Oh my god! someone on here is another Trek Fan?!?!? mail me personally! I'd love to chat Trek with someone! =) > > "You Lie" by Reba McEntire. So there it is: Proof that I'm almost to insanity. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THIS IS SCARY!!! A person who seems to like Trek AND Reba? okay....you're not insane, or else you've got another insane person right over here! As always, Rogue Phoenix "Zhai'helleva ashke' tal'sedr'in" -Old Valdemaran Proverb. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jan 1997 17:23:59 -0000 From: "David Morgan" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: bday/rogue/bondbird/ahri! Message-ID: <19970122172359.17333.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Deniz Yes, that is all actual and factual about my birthday... Iu can't wait to turn 22 on 9-9-99... it's gonna be freaky. ;-) Fireheart reaches over to the Newbie Rogue Phoenix, or whatever use-name he takes... and holds him close. Be nice to this guy... IU've known him for somewhere around a year now... He's under my protection! (muahahahahahaha... I mean... hehe) Nightdancer I have two bondbirds. Shaca, which came from you, and Kyrryl my horned owl. WELCOME AHRI(ERIKA)!!! *flyingtackletickelhugglewedgie!!* And to you... and the rest of the newbies, *Fireheart hands you a small replica of a house* Here is a home. Take it to the realm of your choice, pull the string... and RUN!!! Homecrafters... New homes... in about an hour! ;-) and with all the lightbulb jokes... I gotta do it... if there are any V:tM players... How many Toreador does it take to screw in a lightbulb? 3-One to change it, One to write an elegy to the dead one, and one to write a song of joy for the new one. Or All of them, One to change it, the rest to yell, "Bravo!! ENCORE!!!" sowwie... hehe Fireheart FireheartFireheartFireheartFireheartFireheartFireheartFireheart i r r God of New Homes, Owner of the Eternal Contact Paper, Giver a e of the Perpetual Housewarming Basket, OoUL/L to the LotPW, e h thefireheart-+AT+-hotmail.com, hopefully soon to be Order Member h e Healer-Adept. Bondbirds Shaca & Kyrryl e a Back for good! r r i traeheriFtraeheriFtraeheriFtraeheriFtraeheriFtraeheriFtraeheriF --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:03:42 CST From: "Hth." To: Subject: Lying / general quality of writing Message-ID: <22JAN97.15186681.0017.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> If it is true that you can't lie mind-to-mind, I don't think it would be because your thoughts send out I'M LYING signals. I think mindspeech is much like verbal speech; what you say and how you really feel are fairly separate, and you choose how much you reveal. Otherwise, you'd be sending out all kinds of things to anyone with whom you mindspoke, from "You are boring me to death, and I want to be somewhere else right now" all the way to " Have you always been this gorgeous?" But mindspeech seems to resemble conversation more than the transmitting of your deep thoughts and impulses -- unless, of course, someone is deliberately tunneling into your mind to pick up the deeper levels. Of course, the trick with relying on the truth rule is that it doesn't guard you against people who can convince themselves of their own lies -- or I wouldn't think it would. Hmm. I wonder. To the Gof of Rypos, and others: I've been thinking about this, and I'm not sure I'd really say her writing has gone downhill, per se. Unfortunately, I think it hasn't improved much in ten years, which to me is a sure sign that people either aren't practicing (which we know isn't the case here) or aren't thinking much anymore, just writing on automatic and sticking with what feels safe and easy. Assuming that Di Tregarde's speeches on writing in Jinx High reflect Misty's writing style, she spends, what, a couple of days developing the plot for a book, is that right? Someone might look that up for me. See, this I think is a mistake. The more thought you give something, the more you toss it around, ponder alternatives, relate your characters' actions to their backgrounds, get a feel for your story, the more interesting things start cropping up in your psyche, things you didn't originally plan. Some of which are useful, some of which aren't. But there are so few surprises in Misty's books, it seems like. In the Diana speeches, she talks as though plotting a book were the easiest part. I worry when she thinks that the *absolutely crucial* stage, upon which the success of the entire book depends, is just a cake walk. You're supposed to put some effort into the process. My complaints with the recent books have so often boiled down to "been there, done that." They have repeated themselves thematically; we're no longer *gaining* anything except pages. I kept noticing myself get annoyed with stories in Sword of Ice, and then I'd stop and think, "If that were the first time I'd ever seen anything like this, I doubt it would bother me. I'm just so *sick* of ." Of course, you have to understand, I'm one of those people who reads to get something out of the book. I think Misty is still entertaining, still just fine if you want to kick back on your day off and leaf through a book. But it's no longer a Valuable Experience for me, in the way that Orson Scott Card is, or Kay or Godwin, or Elfquest, or Poppy Brite, or Neil Gaiman, or LHM. And I feel slightly cheated when I read through a book and think, "Yeah, yeah, okay. That's it?" I'm on a continuous search to find the next book that will hit me like a Tigana, a Firelord, a Swordspoint, an Ender's Game, a White Raven, a Magic's Price. And I occasionally feel like anything else is just eating up my limited free time. So maybe I'm not the ideal Misty Reader. Anyway, my point is that I'm picky, and I don't want to read a trilogy that's "every bit as good" as Heralds of Valdemar. Ten years later, I jolly well want it to be *better.* HTH Wand-Sworn Champion of the Ladies of the Pink Wand Grand Dame of the Order of Amber and Marigold DragonCon Shepherd r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:29:40 est From: vrondi-+AT+-juno.com (Chrys A Dean) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re:order..... Message-ID: <19970122.150157.8335.0.vrondi-+AT+-juno.com> On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:36:33 GMT "David Morgan" writes: >Order people- I humbly request permission to join the >Order of Amber and Marigold. I uphold Vanyel always, and >have always said pbpbpblt to those who down him... I >must.... I have been nicknamed Vanyel for several >years...because I look like his pics on the covers... >and I share his attitude usually. > You look like Van? Oh my, been holding out on us Fireheart? And of course you share his unattainability... ______________________________________________________ -Vrondi (Bard of Amber and Marigold) "Here he comes across the lake. He's comin' for his birthday cake. Sing 'Happy Birthday, Dragon Don,' And watch him blow the candles. . . on." -Shel Silverstein(Falling Up) http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/book ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:15:12 -0500 From: "Catarina " To: Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1068 Message-ID: <199701222114.QAA04309-+AT+-mail.eclipse.net> I'm trying to lurk, but I had to respond to this one ;) ---------- > Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:36:24 -0800 (PST) > From: Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> > To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk > Subject: JH&Valspeak / Sayvil / SB Spoiler > Message-ID: > > Hi, Northcat & Jennifer! > > Congrats, new deities! I'm serving refreshments & munchies in the foyer, > if anybody besides me is hungry. > > ****** > > Summersong said,"the way Misty "spoke" the JH people gave me the > impression that they were shallow, to the utmost extreme. This is > arrogant, I know, but I think the JH students are ditzy, down to their > last strand of DNA, and I believe the same thing about people who talk and > act the way the JH students do." Like, whatever do you mean? *chews gum and looks up at everyone, hands on her hips* Now, I am not one to disagree with that view. Even though I am in JH. In fact, that's probably why :) Now, hopefully, since I believe (and have been told ) that I am strange (weird, abnormal, etc. The list just goes on and on.. ;), I don't fit into this cliche... But if I do (please, gods, no!)... I assume I'll live through it... After all, you did.. Right? --- > In WofFury, Stefen said that opposites would life-bond. A over-stressed Herald > would bond with non-Herald who was not so stressed. *a young girl gets out of her chair and walks over to Teresa's desk... Quietly, she picks up the copy of woFury that is lying there...* I have to get that book... these spoilers, and quotes (oh, thank you T ;) are driving me insane... Even more than I already am... ;) > The perfect point tp prove this is to look at the internet > community, I just recently joined the alt.arts.ballet newsgroup, and I > swear, half the time the people on there act like little squabbling three > year olds, I've had to tell them to act grown up, and if I could act > adult, they most certainly could(I'm 16). One of the best things about > Misty, and this list as well, is that age doesn't matter. 13 year olds > can get as much from Misty as 90 year olds, although I don't think we > have anyone quite that old...errr... young, on this list. > *small wave* I'm thirteen, and I have to agree with you. Misty, IMO, is the best (current) fantasy writer I have read. I have never read any proffesional author who's characters came to life like hers do, it was positively astonishing to me.. *realises she's rambling and sits back down* Catarina ---- cherenac-+AT+-mail.eclipse.net XPRA, XFR, MSSMB, X-Army, FFA, XPA, IRCA, LGTAKTPTBB, XPFM4, PWNUSTIEEOTXF and more... "Lots of acronyms." "Lots and lots of acronyms." :Love now -- a good solid love is something infinitely rarer and more difficult to maintain, because you *don't* know everything your partner is feeling. Love takes work. Love means being able to apologize and mean it when you blunder. Love is worth fighting for!: - Stefen, Winds of Fury ____________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:59:16 -0500 (EST) From: Rogue Phoenix To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: bday/rogue/bondbird/ahri! Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, David Morgan wrote: > Fireheart reaches over to the Newbie Rogue Phoenix, or whatever use-name he > takes... and holds him close. Be nice to this guy... IU've known him for > somewhere around a year now... He's under my protection! (muahahahahahaha... I > mean... hehe) Gee, thanks Fireheart...I think.....;) "Zhai'helleva ashke' tal'sedr'in" -Old Valdemaran Proverb. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:58:30 EST From: dyanalynn-+AT+-juno.com (Dyana L Rose) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: lying/texevd for FireRose Message-ID: <19970122.165958.11142.0.DyanaLynn-+AT+-juno.com> Lee Wrote: >Unless you're a sociopath. But presumably a Mindspeaker (who >could share others' pain and emotional suffering) wouldn't be. Then call me a sociopath. I passed many a polygraph while lying, during a psych class. But, then again, I couldn't get a biofeedback machine to change it's note an ounce. From what I call tell, the whole basis of the impossiblility to lie mind to mind is in the fact that the person is *thinking* about lying. What if lying is second nature, or a first reaction? The person will know later on that what they said was wrong, and they will have lied, but they wouldn't have been able to show it when it was actually going on. Second(did I have a first?), I still think that a major reason people can't lie mind to mind even if they do try is that they have been told that it's impossible and get nervous and jumpy because of that point. On to _Clan of the Cave Bear_ which was ne book that I liked a heck of a lot better as a movie. I really thougt Auel went so overboard with her four page descriptions of rocks(and ya'll thought that the Empire scenes were boring). Emily wrote: >>And, while I'm asking for response, would someone please tell me why >>I seem to be the only one who thought that Rose gave Jason(I hope >>that's his name) the wrong color pouch from the chinese man? >Well, I only read the Fire Rose twice and I don't remember it well. I >was waiting for it to come out in pbk, and then I got to college and >became totally broke. I am rather clueless about the pouch you're t>alking about too. Could you post a quote? Okay, I'm about to move from my chair, stand up, and go downstairs to get textevd. Hold on to your hats everybody....................................... This might be long, but it's when Rose visits Master Pao to get her PMS medicine (which we never see her use I might add) Hardcover pg. 247 par.4 ........................The third packet, in white, joined the other two. "And here are the herbs you asked for an increase in staimina.".........................pg.249 par. 3. Then, he shook his head, and passed over the last, red-wrapped packet. "This , however, is not for you. It is for Jason." So, now Misty has established that the white packet is for Rose and the red for Jason. But on pg. 267 when she first finds Jason in really bad shape. She extracted the white-wrapped pouch from the rest, measured the proer amount into the cup and poured the hot water over it. Cameron eyed her with misgiving. "And just what is that?" he asked sharply. She gave him the cool look of mingled superiority and pity that had quelled impertinent under graduates many times in the past. "Medicine from Master Pao," she told him crisply. "He wants you to leave off whatever you are dosing and tale this instead." I don't see any reason for Rose to want to give Jason the stimulant meant for her especially with the bad side effects that Pao told her about. I also don't think that she considerd herself an expert on herbs enough to medicate Jason on her own whims. So, that is what got me bothered about the book. Kawryathen "I never doubted the teachers, just the lessons they taught. If I couldn't fill my stomach, I'd fill my head, But I never could fill the words that I said." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:29:24 -0600 From: jheft-+AT+-ACAD2.dana.edu (Jason Heft) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: mind to mind Lying Message-ID: Pardon The newbie response. In regards with not being able to lie "mind to mind". This is why it makes sense to me. Their minds almost become one. Menories ect are shared right? Here's a weird anology that I think would explain the whole mind to mind lying thing. If I have a computer, and I want to share info with a computer next to me I can go and use it's file sharing capabilities. When connected, My computer would also be using the others hard Drive. In turn making everything about the computer accesable. Now if you think of the human mind like you would this analogy, then it makes perfect sense. You see? It's not that there's any signal or whatever, it's that their minds are together in a weird sort of way. Just like the computers, If I wanted info that was on the other hard drive, I would have it. There wouldn't be anything the other person at the other computer could do about it. But just by being in the hard drive I won't find out anything unless I click on something to find info. I think it works the same way. Again sorry about this little anology, just thought I'd respond. Jay (just another Lackey fan) By the way, how do you get those cool names......... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:29:55 EST From: ahri-+AT+-juno.com (Erika Plajer) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Mpawn/Van lookalikes/greetings/Swords of Ice Message-ID: <19970122.172914.3543.2.Ahri-+AT+-juno.com> Er, hello... Liseth wrote: >Another thing that's been bugging me (all day) about LHM is the back >of >MPawn. At least on my copy (pbk), the bag has this completely >fictitious >accounting of what takes place in the book. Truthfully, I think Do you know, you are right? I just read the back of the book, and it IS wrong! First off, he didn't *have* the 'menacing untrained powers' when he was sent to Savil. And them calling Tylendel's Gate a frightening force? And I thought Savil sought help from the Tayledras, not the Shin'a'in? Whew.... -------------- Vrondi writes: >You look like Van? Oh my, been holding out on us >Fireheart? And of course you share his unattainability.. My best friend's soulmate looks exactly like Vanyel on the cover of MPromise.. even *acts* like him at times. But for all he's a friend of mine, I'm happy he's JUST a friend of mine. :) I couldn't ever imagine myself with someone that has NO sense of humour(sorry, Sage, if you're on here already!). -------------- Fireheart writes: >WELCOME AHRI(ERIKA)!!! *flyingtackletickelhugglewedgie!!* And to you... and the >rest of the newbies, *Fireheart hands you a small replica of a house* Here is a >home. Take it to the realm of your choice, pull the string... and RUN!!! >Homecrafters... New homes... in about an hour! ;-) Er.. hello! :) Thanks for the rather enthusiastic welcome. And the house. But I told you I didn't want chartreuse with heliotrope trim. Do you STILL have the turquoise and lime on backorder? *sigh* Oh well. :) -------------- Alright, I have a question that whomever however could answer: I've seen mentions of a book called Sword of Ice. I have no idea who/what/where it is about, would someone be so nice as to put down the rocks and tell me? Blessed be, Ahri-+AT+-Juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 18:49:31 -0500 From: Deniz To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Birthday stuff Message-ID: <199701222352.SAA19203-+AT+-sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> Well, this Custodian of the Birthday List has just had a jolt of reality... it's the 22nd? I thought it was the 17th... ... anyway... I haven't given out the month's birthdays yet... and I also have a warning to proclaim. One-Day Warning for Tensen! (Jan. 22) The rest of January's birthdays are: 30 Benoit 31 Joan Ferguson ...and seeing as I'm on such a roll... here are February's as well! I'd really appreciate it if you would tell me if any of these people no longer exist on the list... don't be surprised if you don't recognize some of the names... lurkers have birthdays, too! 2 Deniz <-----( look familiar? ) 3 Danya <-----( she left, didn't she? or was it Dyana? ) 4 Tamara 5 Nightdancer 10 Mel the Redcap 11 Lady Lydia 14 Etitameh aka Chelsea 15 Herald Michal 16 Shelley Kennon 22 vix 25 Jenna Hookay... that takes care of that. Errr... I have a quick question... who here would like to volunteer their services to be a big brother/sister for newbies with each different kind of mail server? It would basically entail helping the newbie figure out how to braid (so Vanyel doesn't croak) and to (if need be) show them how to change their To: lines so that their private responses go off-list. I know that our beloved God of theyspeos has a spiel on braiding in Pine... and I know that Emily will help with Eudora or Pegasus light mailers... I can help with Spry (boy, does that date my computer or what?)... anyone else? PPPPPPpppppppplllllllllleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaassssssssseeeeeeeee?????? ObMisty: er... okay, I'm gonna look up the Fire Rose thing, seeing as I have the borrowed book right here... oops... can't find the book... well, if it hasn't been done by the time I *do* find it, I'll find textevd. :) Oh, well lookie that! Dyana did it for me... hmmm... that means Danya left, right? I need a new ObMisty, don't I? Okay, this is a little blurb from "Blue Heart." You know what I really couldn't believe? It really got me that the assassin-Herald, after explaining how rare, precious, beautiful, etc. the butterfly is... caught and mounted it!!!!! When he brought out that display case, I about screamed in outrage! I was on a plane though, so I controlled myself. Ah, well. love, Deniz Sarikaya, High Priestess of |"Perhaps today IS a good to die!"-- Worf Procrastination, Holy Custodian of|"You told him about the statue?" -- Riker the B-Day List, Dame of the OoAM, |"I'm a doctor, not a doorstop." -- EMH and Demon of Deceitful Aliases. |"Definitely not Swedish." -- Lily >dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA< >freakola-+AT+-geocities.com< >http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/9359/< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:17:18 +0000 From: "H.D. Wegemer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mind to mind Lying and computer systems Message-ID: <9701230114.AA11060-+AT+-flash> > If I have a computer, and I want to share info with a computer next to me I > can go and use it's file sharing capabilities. When connected, My computer > would also be using the others hard Drive. In turn making everything about > the computer accesable. Hmm . . . I don't know how -you- want to do this, but I'd say a local area network or time-sharing system would be a better analogy. > If I wanted info that was on the other > hard drive, I would have it. There wouldn't be anything the other person at > the other computer could do about it. Aack! I do -not- think this would go over well at all. If I knew that, by engaging in a mental conversation with somebody, they would be able to pry into my every thought, impression, emotion, and what-have-you . . . I don't think I would be alone in keeping full shields up -very- tightly. As a mindspeaker, you are taught not only how to hear what another has to say, but how to control others' access to your thoughts, as well. You send some thoughts specifically (like a DCC file transfer on IRC), make others available to a -specific- person, if they go after them (like setting up an f-server on IRC) and shield others, to which the person has not right. (The preceding has been a personal impression of a reasonable way for things to work; I will not be supporting this with textevd, but rather rely on logic.) Similarly, when working on the university's UNIX machines, I can enter directories of my professors, classmates, and such. However, the access on each file is set by its owner (if they remember) so that some are readable by everybody, some by a certain group, and some only by their creator. If it were otherwise, nobody would be comfortable storing anything on the computer system. If mindspeech allowed uncontrolled access to all one's thoughts, few even among Heralds would likely be comfortable with it. This is -one- of the reasons many authors depict the unGifted as fearing telepaths / mindspeakers / local equivalent -- as a passive rather than active participant in a mental rapport, an unGifted person is vulnerable to the whim of the person in control (cf. K. Kurtz's Deryni books; if textevd from there will suffice, I'll dig it up. Ms. Lackey's Heralds are so universally trusted and respected and what-not that it's simply unreal . . . and textevd might get tricky.) > Again sorry about this little anology, just thought > I'd respond. Nice little analogy; it makes sense, even if your file-sharing is a -lot- more trusting than any I have ever seen. Coherently (I hope), Heather (the other one -- not What She Said, not the singer, but just me :-_) --- Although I dwell by choice in realms Ephemeral as phosphor glow It is a life -- it is _my_ life -- As real as aught you know. H. Wegemer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:45:23 -0800 From: Brian Bennett To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Emotional Tolkien/OOPS/Tremane Message-ID: <32E6ECE3.46C2-+AT+-erinet.com> > If Tolkien doesn't write emotions well why do I cry whenever I read about > Theoden king dying? Or when Gimli sings of the old days of Khazad-dum? How about the most emotional scene of all in LoTR, IMHO? The one where Gandalf sacrifices himself so that the others can flee from the Balrog. I was stunned for days over that. > Rogue Phoenix--You can call yourself anything you want, titles included, > but there are a few kinds of titles that have Rules: Rogue Phoenix, This is your invitation to join a ***New Order***. This order has only one requirement, you must be a chessplayer who has made one or more stupid, bonehead or moronic moves while playing chess. The name of this new order shall be The Order Of Putzer Servants or OOPS. All listmembers who meet the above requirement may petition me, ShadowWolf the God of Stupid Chess Moves, to join the new order. An appropriate bribe..umm tithe will help your petition to be looked on with favor. If you are accepted into the order you may add Knight or Lady of the Order of Putzer Servants to your name. Please send me private Email at this address: brianben-+AT+-erinet.com If you are interested in joining OOPS. ObMisty > David Tiffany--I those too! Tremaine is the best character Lackey > has come up with in years--complex, mature, and subtle. And to top it all > off, he's even a decent human being. :) I'd like to see her write an > entire book about him and his intrigues. Yes, yes, yes! There was a lot of room to write about the empire if Misty chooses to. I want to know if someone is still out to kill Tremane? Did the Empire survive the Storms? Who is in control of the Empire if it did survive? Is that nasty little assasin coming for Tremane? Will the Empire still come after Valdemar? I want answers!! ShadowWolf, God of Stupid Chess Moves "Checkmate" -- Garry Kasparov ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:16:10 -0800 (PST) From: Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: overdone plots/lying/Choosing/Tremaine/LHM blurb/Zaleka/names & sigs Message-ID: Welcome back Ahri--you left in, what was it, November, right? Things actually calmed down pretty quick. Come on in, the water's fine! Sword of Ice is an anthology of mostly-Valdemar stories (a few take place elsewhere), mostly by other people (tho' Misty's name is on some of 'em as coauthor.) ****Overdone plots** Heather said, "I think we need to make up a FAQ for Misty. Including Topics That Have Been Done to Death. Things we don't need to see again unless a new angle or idea has been added." ooh, yes. But you could also do that for all fantasy writers... VELGARTH STORIES WE'VE HAD ENOUGH OF (and don't need to see again unless the author has some earth-shattering new insight) PROBABLY BECAUSE IT'S BEEN DONE QUITE WELL ENOUGH ALREADY: 1) A Herald improves his/her self-esteem by saving the day. 2) The lifebonded couple who won't get together. 3) A Black Hat torments innocent peasants (and sheep) until a White Hat kills him/her. 4) The armies of Light struggle to prevent a takeover by the armies of Darkness. 5) ... Suggestions, anyone? sort of on the topic of overdone plots, Emily said, "Y'know what the problem is with SoI? A fair number of us have read anthologies edited by MZB, who is a darn good editor. She has a real knack for picking stories that illuninate something different about fantasy (or Darkover). If any of you have read Sword of Chaos (2nd Darkover antho), you prolly will have noticed that the stories are _interesting_ and they match up pretty well with what is cannonical in Darkover.[snip]" Canon? Darkover has canon? Well, I guess I never noticed a Friends of Darkover mistake as egregious as Kellan's Mind-Boggling Sex Change. I've always thought some of the FoD stories were pretty badly amateurish (same with MZB's Fantasy Mag), but you're right, Bradley usually does pick stories that bring something new to light. from Heather: "through a book. But it's no longer a Valuable Experience for me, in the way that Orson Scott Card is, or Kay or Godwin, or Elfquest, or Poppy Brite, or Neil Gaiman, or LHM. And I feel slightly cheated when I read through a book and think, "Yeah, yeah, okay. That's it?" I'm on a continuous search to find the next book that will hit me like a Tigana, a Firelord, a Swordspoint, an Ender's Game, a White Raven, a Magic's Price." Somewhere around "or Kay or Godwin, or" I wanted to interrupt with "Hey, don't forget Kushner!"--but then you did slip in the Obligatory Swordspoint Plug. ****Lying** I said, "Unless you're a sociopath. But presumably a Mindspeaker (who could share others' pain and emotional suffering) wouldn't be." and the invisible one replied, "One would hope. Given the way some of my relatives have turned out, I'm not so sure that telepathy would give you a social conscience (or any sort really). Brains sure don't help." Well, *I* don't think it would, but between Van's "Mindspeech is the hardest school of honor" spiel in MPromise and Nyara's Amazing Emerging Empathy, I suspect that's what Misty's theory is. (Lots of people coming up with interesting stuff on this thread.) and Kawry replied, "Then call me a sociopath. I passed many a polygraph while lying, during a psych class.[snip]" I'll have to pass on the name-calling (er, not take part in it, I mean). I don't consider successfully fooling a polygraph necessary and sufficient evidence for diagnosing sociopathology. (hehe, gratuitous Long Words. me happy now.) As for the rest of what you wrote--yep. Hi, Jay! Whaddya mean "sorry" and "pardon the newbie response"? Y'think we'll hate your ideas 'cause you're new? Okay, who's been terrorizing you, and are they on this list? It's a cool analogy, but it reminds me more of the Danial Keys Moran theory of telepathy--Carl Castanaveras says somewhere in _Emerald Eyes_ (cautiously recommended, but its sequal, _The Long Run_, is Highly and Enthusiastically Recommended (Trent is God!!!!!<--yep, five)) that his intelligence is temporarily enhanced when he mindtouches someone who's smarter than he is. (That was not, believe it or not, anywhere near the most contorted sentence I've ever written.) Heather Weg pointed out that if telepathy works that way, it leads to paranoia (see Em. Eyes again), and the fact that people, who know how Mindspeech works in Velgarth, don't automatically turn paranoid suggests to me that Mindspeech doesn't work that way. (Oh, my, was there *any* way to punctuate that sentence that would have increased clarity? Maybe I should learn to use simple sentences. But that would involve thinking things out step by step. ) ****Choosing** Akiko obmistyed, "There's somethin' 'bout Valdemar that strikes me odd: If a person has a Heraldic gift, does (s)he automatically get chosen? What if (s)he's a Bad Person who abuses his/her gift? I think the Heralds *do* block the gift, but what about the warped abuse of the Gift?" I think it's said that certain personality traits are also a prerequisite for getting Chosen. It's just hard to remember that some nonChosen have Gifts because the only time we see that is with Bards or Healers. ****Tremaine** Chantal (Chantal? Are you new? Hi.) said, "Tremaine is the best character Lackey has come up with in years--complex, mature, and subtle. And to top it all off, he's even a decent human being. :) I'd like to see her write an entire book about him and his intrigues. Maybe even two or three books. I would not find them painful to read in the slightest." Yeah, Tremaine was neat. He seemed to interrupt the plot, which was what I found disturbing. she went on, "One thing that has struck me about Lackey's recent Valdemar books is that she is exploring her characters' minds deeply, rather than moving the story along at a smooth pace." I think it isn't necessary to stop a story in order to explore a character; you can learn as much about them (although in a more inexplicit, readers-would-have-to-think-about-it-in-order-to-be-able-to-explain-it kinda way) through the events of the plot as through watching them pace, fume, and threaten to destroy their bondbirds. Vanyel seems to me to be explored pretty deeply (remember when we first see him? when he's trying to solve his problem with his father by creating an honorable escape from Forst Reach, thus showing he's the sort of person who tries to take charge of his life) and in LHM there's a minimal (compared to the later books) amount of sitting-and-thinking. When there is sitting-and-thinking, it's usually followed/preceded by action connected to the plot, and the plot and thinking clearly have effects on each other. I think that Misty is actually interested enough in Tremane to have written a separate book about him alone; since everything we learn about him that's relevent to the Valdemar-side of Storms could have been conveyed from Karal's point of view (such as through the scrying scenes), for the sake of putting together an evenly-paced story his point of view should have been left out of Storms entirely. Mebbe I shouldn't post "what she shoulda done" comments. I like the books, I just can't resist thinking about how I would have done it. That's what I get for studying writing. ****LHM blurb** Liseth said, "Another thing that's been bugging me (all day) about LHM is the back of MPawn. At least on my copy (pbk), the bag has this completely fictitious accounting of what takes place in the book.[snip more in vein]" I have a feeling the bit about replacing "Tayledras" with "Shin'a'in" was some sort of marketing ploy about getting Tarma & Kethry's fans' attention. And the rest was weaseling out of saying, "Here's a story about a gay 15 yr-old boy who does get to have sex and feel good about himself, and his mean ol' father who gets yelled at and shown to be an ass." Gay characters were not, when LHM first came out, new to the genre (see MZB or Ted Sturgeon or Diane Duane or Rebecca Meluch or...), but LHM explicitly fights homophobia... ****Zaleka** Jacquelle asked why Talia didn't know who Zaleka was when Talia's supposed to know all the Companions--some time ago, and no one answered iirc, but I think the part where it said she knew "all" the Companions, it said (or implied?) that she knew all the Companions *at Haven*. So Zaleka could have been one of many Companions on circuit that Talia didn't know. Mebbe I should check the textevd, eh? ****Names & Sigs** Catarina (hi!) sigged: XPRA, XFR, MSSMB, X-Army, FFA, XPA, IRCA, LGTAKTPTBB, XPFM4, PWNUSTIEEOTXF and more... "Lots of acronyms." "Lots and lots of acronyms." I wasn't going to ask...but no, I just gotta know --what does all that stand for? Jay asked, "By the way, how do you get those cool names........." ha ha ha! (actually, I have the urge to say "Hat. Hat. Hat." like that guy in _Soul Music_...) sorry, don't know why I'm laughing...well, maybe because I posted a long explanation of the Rules of Titles just a few days ago... and was rather nervous about it, too, sure I'd get something wrong, tho' of course even if I had no one would have bit my head off... anyway I still have a copy, will send it to you privily. Oops, delete reflex baa-aad (four legs, good.) (Sheep? Who's sheeping?) I don't have your addy anymore. Anyway, ~anyone~ who A) can't understand "LotPW," "OAM," and "in Green," or B) understand them but still don't know what's going on, mail me privately (97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu--which may not be the addy in my message headers, but believe me, it works, too) and I'll send out an explanation en masse. --------- Dinner time! the Eternally Nourished Lee -97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu-Knight of the OAM- www.geocities.com/Athens/4709/-Spreader of Humor-Self Appointed User of 5-point Vocabulary Words Such As "Panegyric"-"I collected my thoughts. Someday I hope to have them all." (Vlad Taltos) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:17:43 -0500 (EST) From: William L Pomeroy To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List Subject: Virus Alert Message-ID: Hello Sorry to interupt everyone, however a good friend of mine sent this to me. It appears to be legit. Bill "Greyrose" Pomeroy -+AT+-}~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{-+AT+- | "-BLOODY HELL!" she finished with a wail, throwing up her hands in | | despair, as if in petition to the unseen gods. "Isn't it bad enough | |that I get a lover who takes over my dreams, a talking horse, and a | |uniform like a target? Isn't it enough that I go from being an honest | |mercenary to some kind of do-gooder? Does EVERYTHING in my life have to | |come back and haunt me and TALK IN MY HEAD?" | | | | Captain Kerowyn | | Winds of Fury | | Mercedes Lackey | -+AT+-}~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{-+AT+- William L. Pomeroy Greyrose Foundation Computer Consulatants (508) 435-9456 Pager: 1-800-393-5943 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:39:42 -0500 (EST) From: AARAGS-+AT+-aol.com To: greyrose-+AT+-world.std.com Subject: abby's on aol Bill, my friend sent me this :{ I thought you should have it. We're still on juno. Subj: Fwd: ~~~VIRUS ALERT~~~ To: Remsp10, Rachran-+AT+-warwick.net, ShoreBob, leecroy-+AT+-home.dmv.com, Npwr In a message dated 97-01-18 17:18:22 EST, ValOnLand writes: << VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION: PLEASE READ ! There is a computer virus that is being sent across the Internet. If you receive an email message with the subject line "Deeyenda", DO NOT read the message, DELETE it immediately. Please read the messages below. Some miscreant is sending email under the title "Deeyenda" nationwide, if you get anything like this DON'T DOWNLOAD THE FILE! It has a virus that rewrites your hard drive, obliterating anything on it. Please be careful and forward this mail to anyone you care about. FCC WARNING !!!!! ----- DEEYENDA PLAGUES INTERNET ---- The internet community has again been plagued by another computer virus. This message is being spread throughout the internet, including USENET posting, EMAIL, and other interent activities.. The reason for all the attention is because of the nature of this virus and the potential security risks it makes. Instead of a destructive trojan virus (most viruses!), this virus, referred to as Deeyenda Maddick, performs a comprehensive search on your computer, looking for valuable information, such as email and login passwords, credit cards, personal info, etc. The Deeyenda virus also has the capability to stay memory resident while running a host of applications and operation systems, such as Windows 3.11 and windows 95. What this means to internet users is that when a login and PASSWORD are sent to the server, this virus can COPY this information and SEND IT OUT TO AN UNKNOWN ADDRESS (varies). The reason for this warning is because the Deeyenda virus is virtually undetectable. Once attacked, your computer will be unsecure. Although it can attack any O/S, this virus is most likely to attack those users viewing Java enhanced Web Pages (Netscape 2.0+ and Microsoft Internet Explorer 3.0+ which are running on Windows 95) . Researchers at Princeton University have found this virus on a number of World Wide Web pages and fear its spread. Please pass this on, for we must alert the general public at the security risks. Please pass this on to those you care about.... >> FYI : ) Old B. love Abby -------------- Forwarded Message: Date: Sat, Jan 18, 1997 6:18 PM EDT From: ValOnLand Subj: Fwd: ~~~VIRUS ALERT~~~ To: remsp.10, Npwr, Old Barnie, PenMike1, leecroy-+AT+-dmv.com p.s. You should never download anything from someone you don't know.... ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1070 **********************************