MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1071

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) re mind to mind lying
	by northcat-+AT+-juno.com (carol a lena)
  2) Braid:birthdays & SOI
	by "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" <Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au>
  3) Braid (Mostly about mind-to-mind and speech patterns w/fluff)
	by Ken Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
  4) Birthday stuff
	by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com
  5) Re: Virus Alert
	by Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu>
  6) Re: Birthday stuff
	by Tensen <tensen-+AT+-crow.cybercomm.net>
  7) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1068
	by Teresa Horne <kerowyn-+AT+-usa.net>
  8) RE: Braid (Mostly about mind-to-mind and speech patterns w/fluff)
	by Sunny Norwood <snorwood-+AT+-NMSU.Edu>
  9) pouncer
	by Tamarisk <clight-+AT+-icok.net>
 10) Viruses
	by Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:24:22 EST
From: northcat-+AT+-juno.com (carol a lena)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: re mind to mind lying
Message-ID: <19970122.213343.8854.0.northcat-+AT+-juno.com>

I think I found something in SB. They're using the teleson devise.
Firesong is trying to figure out why it feels strange. He thinks 'There
are no mental images! There's no emotional flavor, no images, no leaking
over of other thoughts! This is just like speaking, not like Mindspeech
at all.' If all of this comes across in Mindspeech, I could see where it
might be difficult, if not impossible, to lie. Does this seem plausible
to everyone else?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:08:02 +1030
From: "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" <Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid:birthdays & SOI
Message-ID: <9701230338.AA48346-+AT+-bilbo.cc.flinders.edu.au>

Dear Listsibs,

Before I get deeply engrossed in planning for the new year and new
curriculum - some birthday wishes:

22 - Tensen - {{BIG ZEN HUG}} and a vial of green fluid - guaranteed (sp) to
change your mood to what you want it to be - wrapped in sheep paper with
chocolate fleeces.

30 - Benoit -  {{BIG ZEN HUG}} plus a wand that heals all flesh wounds
wrapped in cat paper with chocolate cat nip!

31 - Joan Ferguson -  {{BIG ZEN HUG}} plus a vacuum cleaner that immediately
senses dirt and automatically goes out and gets it and empties itself
wrapped in dragon paper with chocolate flames.

Can someone please supply me with the full citation for SOI - Author/editor,
date, ISBN, publisher so this Aussie can once more order yet another book
from the States.

ObMisty: what about lying by omission - this is what many have been discussing. 

Wind to thy wings list sibs

Aili

Bondbird: 3 year old goshawk Zika

Regards

Ailsa

Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda
Head: Department of Nursing Practice
School of Nursing,
Flinders University of South Australia
Email:Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au

Practise randomn acts of kindness and senseless beauty!


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:24:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
To: Misty Lackey List <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>
Subject: Braid (Mostly about mind-to-mind and speech patterns w/fluff)
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.970122215108.15064A-100000-+AT+-copland.udel.edu>

Summersong wrote:

> I resent it when people see the
> nonexistent need to interject their speech with "like" and "y'know"
> every three seconds, when it's unnecessary to do so.

You resent it?  Why?  And where did you get the idea that it was
"unnecessary"?  Particles such as "like" and "you know" have extremely
interesting and valid functions in speech.  If you are interested, you
might want to look at Janet Holmes' paper, "Functions of 'you know' in
Women's and Men's Speech" (Language in Society, v. 15).  

> *I* at least make a conscious effort to speak as English was meant to be
> spoken 

Summersong, don't *even* go there!  Meant to be spoken by whom and in
what context? What dialect do you speak?  Does it vary?  If you are a
normal speaker of English (American or British or Indian, btw?), you
should be able to speak at least 3 distinct registers, write in a
different dialect than you speak (at least one grapholect), and you
probably understand a number of dialects that you may not be able to speak
actively.  I assure you that if you spoke flawlessly "correct" English
(something that doesn't exist except as a myth perpetuated by English
teachers) in Jenks High, you would be alone and friendless very quickly,
primarily for two reasons.  One is that you would be marking yourself very
overtly as "out-group."  The second reason is that most people have an
intuitive grasp of the linguistic truth that everyone who is speaking a
language natively does it "correctly" and the other students would
probably immediately pick up on the metamessage, "I don't approve of you
and I think you sound stupid" from your "hypercorrect" speech and would
quite properly resent *that*.

> that even comes down to consciously placing my prepositions where
> they belong, to the best of my abilities.

So, you strand them at the end of sentences and phrases, right?  Because
that *is* where they belong in English (as in any Germanic language).
There is no natural dialect of English that bans preposition stranding.
The only dialects that require it are those grapholects that were based on
French grammar (preposition stranding is banned in most Romance languages)
and are a product of 18th century grammarians misguided attempt to impose
latinate rules on a Germanic language.  (I have textual evidence for this.
Anyone who wants it should email me, privately.)

> I think the JH students are ditzy, down to their last strand of DNA, and
> I believe the same thing about people who talk and act the way the JH
> students do. I'm sorry if your best friend speaks in cloudy language,
> but that's just how I feel.

That's okay.  Out of respect for the "no flames" rule, I won't say what I
think about language snobs.  This is already too close to a flame and I
apologize to anyone whom it may offend, but I feel very, VERY strongly
about this (what can I say?  I freaking *teach* sociolinguistics!  Of
course, I care about the subject. *grin*)

> Maybe Misty overlooked it, because I don't recall an explanation of
> Gala not being there. And it's kind of sad that while it's implied that
> Gala did forgive Tylendel, he never knew about it.

I don't know, I think Misty did explain it.  Gala repudiated 'Lendel.
They were not bound anymore.  Why would she be in Sorrows?  I think that
the ringing of the Death Bell for 'Lendel may have meant that the other
Companions felt he was worthy (my impression is that the Companions are
the ones who ring the Death Bell), but that doesn't change the fact that
'Lendel and Gala's bond was broken.  There is no reason that she would be
in Sorrows with Van, Stef, and Yfandes, since she has no bond to any of
them.

-----EOM/BOM

Deniz wrote: (Welcome back btw, In case I forgot to say it before)

> Well... have you *ever* heard Misty refer to a "Devil" type character?
> I just don't think she would have an Evil Goddess/God duo... it isn't
> her style...

Well, I think that she pretty much casts Burning Water as an "evil god" in
the book of the same title.  That was, in fact, one of the reasons I
didn't like the book.  But I think, in general, you are right: Misty
doesn't really like the idea of an Evil Goddess.  About the closest she
seems to get to it is callous (Vkandis and the Star-Eyed both have their
moments).  

> When a deity grows old, they go back into dreams.

Have you ever read Simon Green's "Hawk and Fisher" books?  There is one
really touching scene where they follow a suspect (they are city guards in
a fantasy setting) to an old "abandoned" temple, and find him with his
god, Le Bel Inconnu.  His god is dying, because the suspect is the only
worshipper left living, and when the priest/suspect dies, so will the god.
 
> Oh, to however it was who asked how to braid... we can't help you if we
> don't know what your e-mail client/server is... if it's Pine... I think
> it's Cennydd (not sure on this) who has the guide to braiding in
> Pine...

Yepper, it is me.  I don't claim that it is *the* guide to braiding in
Pine, but it is the first one for this list.  I suspect that others have
come up with other ones which are probably more thorough.

-----EOM/BOM

Firemist wrote:

> Well, i dunno if Cennydd cares to venture an opinion, but I grew
> up in that area of Oklahoma (Bartlesville, close to Jenks and
> Tulsa) and in the mid-late eighties the kids in my school
> *did* talk that way. With a drawl, too. (aside: for those of you
> who did not know, our beloved Avatar/Mage/God lived in Tulsa)

To some extent, the style is still used, although not a heavily as it was
in the 80's.  It has, of course, changed somewhat over the years and there
have been new vocab. items added as fashions change.  During the time
period that Misty was writing about, I think that the style was still
strong in the schools.  Having never gone to Jenks HS, I have to say that
I have no first-hand way of confirming that Jenks students used it, but I
know that it was the primary dialect in Union.  

Oh, and for everyone who has been wondering about it, no Jenks is not like
that in real life.  Union was, though.  And Jenks may have become more
like that (I know that they were trying to become more "up market," but I
don't know if the "snobbery" has gotten as strong as Misty portrays it).
Certainly, it wasn't a snob school in the 80's (too country).  

> Who is the god/dess of small furry creatures which sit
> on one's lap when one is trying to type?

there isn't one.  The title is currently in contention since two people
have asked for it.

-----EOM/BOM

Heather wrote:

> As for dangerously self-absorbed kids with seemingly unlimited money,
> very little parental supervision, short attention spans, and a need for
> instant gratification?  Yup, they're real.  I've known them; my
> she'enedra went to a school in some ways very much like Jenks High, and
> she used to run with a similar kind of crowd.

I knew there was a reason I liked her! =)  BTW, whatever happened to her?
I haven't seen a post from her in forever (this is Barbara you are talking
about, right?)  Anyway, yes, those kids are real, I was one of them, and
they were not evil or mean-spirited, as Misty seemed to portray a lot of
them.  Nor were they as "self-absorbed" as they appear at first sight.
However, they were extremely cliquish (Union raised "ingroup" and
"outgroup" status to an artform).  I suppose that, based on my own HS
experience, it is plausible that a person like Faye might have the effect
of creating a bunch of monsters, though.  God knows my group got up to
enough extreme things.  We just never went in for harmful things (at
least, they weren't harmful until AIDS showed up in OK).

> Actually, I thought the title story was pretty good evidence that
> Starwind was *not* exclusively gay.  His -- whaddayacall -- valemates,
> whatever, accused him of having designs on Savil's body, which means one
> of two things.  Either Starwind was open to a heterosexual relationship,
> or he wasn't and no one realized that.

I haven't read the story, but I am not sure that this is necessarily
evidence for Starwind's bisexuality.  I mean, *I* have been accused (in
jest) of having designs on a woman's body, even by people who know that I
am gay.  I don't know if there is any evidence that the accusations were
made in a jesting way, but that is one possible interpretation.  Another,
less pleasant, one is that the author could not accept the idea of a
society where homosexuality would be something people were open about and
comfortable with. 

> I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with Misty's philosophy on
> abuse and exploitation.

Then I will. =)  After all, why should you be the only one to criticise
Misty.  There is something wrong with saying that people do things because
"they are bad."  It basically takes away any possibility of preventing
such things from happening.  Not that we can prevent everything "bad" from
happening, but there is a (semi)known pathology to child and spousal
abuse.  We have come to understand that there are usually psychological
reasons behind a lot of "bad" actions and it is sometimes possible to
either treat them, or at least identify them as marking "at risk" people.
Which would you rather live in, a world where child abuse happens and it
is just "bad" and left at that, or a world in which child abuse is
identified as a "learned" behavior and programs exist to try and break the
pattern of passing it on down the generations?  Or alcoholism: is it
better to be in a world where people are alcoholics because they are "bad"
or in a world where alcoholics are recognized as sick and treatments
exist.  Not that the second choice is perfect (we can't prevent child
abuse from happening and not every alcoholic responds to treatment), but
it is better than the helpless feeling in the first choice of knowing that
there are "bad" people out there and there is nothing anyone can do about
it.

-----EOM/BOM

Becky wrote:

>	Why thank you, you are correct, I never did recieve the ceremony 
> for Goddess of Tofu, although I've had the title for quite some time
> now, how on earth did you discover this? You must have a lot of free
> time on your hands to be doing archive reading.

'Tis all part and parcel of the Avatar biz.  "Phenomenal cosmic powers,
itty-bitty living space!" =)  Actually, I have been combing the archives
for Namings.

Which brings us to Vrondi's question:

> Does anyone have a complete list of our beloved Pantheon of list
> dieties?

Of course, ma chere.  I do.  Anyone who would like a copy should let me
know, *privately*.  I will send you a copy off-list.  I think I will also
put it up on my website.

-----EOM/BOM

Deniz wrote:

> One-Day Warning for Tensen! (Jan. 22)

Hipppuppy Bthrrrday! Tensen.

> Hookay... that takes care of that.

Deniz, you twerp! =)  You didn't include my b-day!  */me pouts and sulks
in a corner of the Hall of Mists!*  Oh well, even if you don't love me,
the Lodies of the Pink Wand remembered.  So there!  I am going to take my
marbles and go home!  *temper tantrum!*  

/me giggles uncontrollably.  This is fun!  Now I know why little kids do
this so much. *grin*

May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit,

Cennydd,

Kenneth Allen Hyde     |  No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife
Univ. of Delaware      |  between the shoulder blades will seriously
Dept. of Linguistics   |  cramp his style  -- Old Jhereg proverb
kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu         |  A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me

**http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html**


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:24:26 -0500 (EST)
From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Birthday stuff
Message-ID: <01IEJ4YARNHU984JLX-+AT+-delphi.com>

Deniz--But, but...of <courxe> he caught and mounted it.  He was an
Assassin-Herald, right?  (running away VERY fast!)


     Chantal                                                                                                                                 

`[1;35;43mRainbow V 1.20.2 for Delphi - Test Drive

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:31:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Virus Alert
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.92.970122202108.27142A-100000-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu>

We got this warning already...No, wait, I got it from a friend...anyway,
it was followed up by a very clear explanation of why "Deeyenda" or any
renamed version of the "Good Times Virus" warning *is not real.*
Remember, when tempted to send a virus warning, *first ask Auntie Mel.*
Lots of 'em are hoaxes.  In general, any message that supposedly causes a
virus to eat your 'puter when you read it *is fiction*.

--Lee, sans sig 'cause I've already posted today.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:12:33 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tensen <tensen-+AT+-crow.cybercomm.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Birthday stuff
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.970123001016.21303A-100000-+AT+-crow.cybercomm.net>



On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Deniz wrote:

> Well, this Custodian of the Birthday List has just had a jolt of reality... 
> it's the 22nd?  I thought it was the 17th... <mutter, mutter>... anyway... I 
> haven't given out the month's birthdays yet... and I also have a warning to 
> proclaim.
> 
> 	One-Day Warning for Tensen! (Jan. 22)

Correction, that was a Warning for Gyr's burthday on January 22nd,
mine is Feb 23rd.

> 
> Errr... I have a quick question... who here would like to volunteer their 
> services to be a big brother/sister for newbies with each different kind of 
> mail server?  It would basically entail helping the newbie figure out how to 
> braid (so Vanyel doesn't croak) and to (if need be) show them how to change 
> their To: lines so that their private responses go off-list.

Can we volunteer to teach them not to braid?!?  i trully hate braided 
messages.


                                           Tensen


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:23:58 -0500
From: Teresa Horne <kerowyn-+AT+-usa.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1068
Message-ID: <32E703FE.3133-+AT+-usa.net>

Catarina wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to lurk, but I had to respond to this one ;)

And since she's dragging me into it, so do I.  *pout*
 
> > Summersong said,"the way Misty "spoke"  the JH people gave me the
> > impression that they were shallow, to the utmost extreme. This is
> > arrogant, I know, but I think the JH students are ditzy, down to their
> > last strand of DNA, and I believe the same thing about people who talk
> and
> > act the way the JH students do."
> 
> <giggling> Like, whatever do you mean? *chews gum and looks up at everyone,
> hands on her hips*  <just kidding>  Now, I am not one to disagree with that
> view.  Even though I am in JH.  In fact, that's probably why :)
> 
> Now, hopefully, since I believe (and have been told <g>) that I am strange
> (weird, abnormal, etc. The list just goes on and on.. ;), I don't fit into
> this cliche...  But if I do (please, gods, no!)... I assume I'll live
> through it...
> After all, you did..
> Right?

'Rina, I do believe you'll survive.  And I have to say that most ppl
don't talk like that on a normal basis, at least not where I'm from. 
But I was the one who thought that the "Georgian" drawl in "Born To Run"
was a bit exaggerated...I don't know...maybe they exaggerate it down in
Savannah or sth ;)

> 
> ---
> > In WofFury, Stefen said that opposites would life-bond. A over-stressed
> Herald
> > would bond with non-Herald who was not so stressed.
> 
> *a young girl gets out of her chair and walks over to Teresa's desk...
> Quietly, she picks up the copy of woFury that is lying there...*
> <grin>  I have to get that book... these spoilers, and quotes (oh,  thank
> you T ;) are driving me insane...
> Even more than I already am...
> ;)

Damn, I knew I shoulda locked WoFury in the safe with my LHM books.  Oh,
well.  'Rina, I want that back when you're finished with it.  *I'm* not
even finished with it yet.  And, Rina, it's so much fun to drive you
insane with spoilers and quotes.  Hmm, maybe if I try hard enough, I can
drive you *sane* with the spoilers and quotes. ;)

> cherenac-+AT+-mail.eclipse.net
> XPRA, XFR, MSSMB, X-Army, FFA, XPA, IRCA, LGTAKTPTBB, XPFM4, PWNUSTIEEOTXF
> and more... "Lots of acronyms."  "Lots and lots of acronyms."

Rina, Rina, Rina.  You know you should have left all those X-files
related acronyms back where they belong: on the XF lists.

Sorry for this totally nonsense post, y'all.  

Teresa :)
-- 

"You know, I didn't *ask* for this.  I didn't *want* to be a
Herald-Mage, I wanted to be a Bard.  I sure as Havens didn't *ask* to be
'Vanyel Dragonsbreath,' or whatever it is that they're calling me."
                --Vanyel (Magic's Promise)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:19:39 -0700
From: Sunny Norwood <snorwood-+AT+-NMSU.Edu>
To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Braid (Mostly about mind-to-mind and speech patterns w/fluff)
Message-ID: <01BC08BA.BE5C71C0-+AT+-analog-ts8-4.NMSU.Edu>

Hmm...seems like everyone is caught up in this nice lets talk Standardized 
English blahblah.  Well, I'd hate to tell people this, but we are all 
allowed to have our own opinion, even if it does makes us hypocrites (we 
all are anyway).  In the matter of opinions no one is wrong or right, 
except in their own minds.  Reminder, things do get annoying, like 
irritating speech patterns and that is ok we are human (well, most of us). 
 And yelling at someone and telling them they are wrong is not going to get 
them to like you nor convince them that your opinion is valid (thus 
explaining my feeling that no one will like this).  So say what you have to 
say and remind everyone, because we forget, that it is only your opinion 
and don't forget, once is enough, no need to beat the subject down with a 
stick.
Have a nice complete Special K day

-Sunny  :)

----------
From: 	Ken Hyde[SMTP:kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu]
Sent: 	Wednesday, January 22, 1997 21:49 PM
To: 	snorwood-+AT+-NMSU.Edu
Subject: 	Braid (Mostly about mind-to-mind and speech patterns w/fluff)

Summersong wrote:

> I resent it when people see the
> nonexistent need to interject their speech with "like" and "y'know"
> every three seconds, when it's unnecessary to do so.

You resent it?  Why?  And where did you get the idea that it was
"unnecessary"?  Particles such as "like" and "you know" have extremely
interesting and valid functions in speech.  If you are interested, you
might want to look at Janet Holmes' paper, "Functions of 'you know' in
Women's and Men's Speech" (Language in Society, v. 15).

> *I* at least make a conscious effort to speak as English was meant to be
> spoken

Summersong, don't *even* go there!  Meant to be spoken by whom and in
what context? What dialect do you speak?  Does it vary?  If you are a
normal speaker of English (American or British or Indian, btw?), you
should be able to speak at least 3 distinct registers, write in a
different dialect than you speak (at least one grapholect), and you
probably understand a number of dialects that you may not be able to speak
actively.  I assure you that if you spoke flawlessly "correct" English
(something that doesn't exist except as a myth perpetuated by English
teachers) in Jenks High, you would be alone and friendless very quickly,
primarily for two reasons.  One is that you would be marking yourself very
overtly as "out-group."  The second reason is that most people have an
intuitive grasp of the linguistic truth that everyone who is speaking a
language natively does it "correctly" and the other students would
probably immediately pick up on the metamessage, "I don't approve of you
and I think you sound stupid" from your "hypercorrect" speech and would
quite properly resent *that*.

> that even comes down to consciously placing my prepositions where
> they belong, to the best of my abilities.

So, you strand them at the end of sentences and phrases, right?  Because
that *is* where they belong in English (as in any Germanic language).
There is no natural dialect of English that bans preposition stranding.
The only dialects that require it are those grapholects that were based on
French grammar (preposition stranding is banned in most Romance languages)
and are a product of 18th century grammarians misguided attempt to impose
latinate rules on a Germanic language.  (I have textual evidence for this.
Anyone who wants it should email me, privately.)

> I think the JH students are ditzy, down to their last strand of DNA, and
> I believe the same thing about people who talk and act the way the JH
> students do. I'm sorry if your best friend speaks in cloudy language,
> but that's just how I feel.

That's okay.  Out of respect for the "no flames" rule, I won't say what I
think about language snobs.  This is already too close to a flame and I
apologize to anyone whom it may offend, but I feel very, VERY strongly
about this (what can I say?  I freaking *teach* sociolinguistics!  Of
course, I care about the subject. *grin*)

> Maybe Misty overlooked it, because I don't recall an explanation of
> Gala not being there. And it's kind of sad that while it's implied that
> Gala did forgive Tylendel, he never knew about it.

I don't know, I think Misty did explain it.  Gala repudiated 'Lendel.
They were not bound anymore.  Why would she be in Sorrows?  I think that
the ringing of the Death Bell for 'Lendel may have meant that the other
Companions felt he was worthy (my impression is that the Companions are
the ones who ring the Death Bell), but that doesn't change the fact that
'Lendel and Gala's bond was broken.  There is no reason that she would be
in Sorrows with Van, Stef, and Yfandes, since she has no bond to any of
them.

-----EOM/BOM

Deniz wrote: (Welcome back btw, In case I forgot to say it before)

> Well... have you *ever* heard Misty refer to a "Devil" type character?
> I just don't think she would have an Evil Goddess/God duo... it isn't
> her style...

Well, I think that she pretty much casts Burning Water as an "evil god" in
the book of the same title.  That was, in fact, one of the reasons I
didn't like the book.  But I think, in general, you are right: Misty
doesn't really like the idea of an Evil Goddess.  About the closest she
seems to get to it is callous (Vkandis and the Star-Eyed both have their
moments).

> When a deity grows old, they go back into dreams.

Have you ever read Simon Green's "Hawk and Fisher" books?  There is one
really touching scene where they follow a suspect (they are city guards in
a fantasy setting) to an old "abandoned" temple, and find him with his
god, Le Bel Inconnu.  His god is dying, because the suspect is the only
worshipper left living, and when the priest/suspect dies, so will the god.

> Oh, to however it was who asked how to braid... we can't help you if we
> don't know what your e-mail client/server is... if it's Pine... I think
> it's Cennydd (not sure on this) who has the guide to braiding in
> Pine...

Yepper, it is me.  I don't claim that it is *the* guide to braiding in
Pine, but it is the first one for this list.  I suspect that others have
come up with other ones which are probably more thorough.

-----EOM/BOM

Firemist wrote:

> Well, i dunno if Cennydd cares to venture an opinion, but I grew
> up in that area of Oklahoma (Bartlesville, close to Jenks and
> Tulsa) and in the mid-late eighties the kids in my school
> *did* talk that way. With a drawl, too. (aside: for those of you
> who did not know, our beloved Avatar/Mage/God lived in Tulsa)

To some extent, the style is still used, although not a heavily as it was
in the 80's.  It has, of course, changed somewhat over the years and there
have been new vocab. items added as fashions change.  During the time
period that Misty was writing about, I think that the style was still
strong in the schools.  Having never gone to Jenks HS, I have to say that
I have no first-hand way of confirming that Jenks students used it, but I
know that it was the primary dialect in Union.

Oh, and for everyone who has been wondering about it, no Jenks is not like
that in real life.  Union was, though.  And Jenks may have become more
like that (I know that they were trying to become more "up market," but I
don't know if the "snobbery" has gotten as strong as Misty portrays it).
Certainly, it wasn't a snob school in the 80's (too country).

> Who is the god/dess of small furry creatures which sit
> on one's lap when one is trying to type?

there isn't one.  The title is currently in contention since two people
have asked for it.

-----EOM/BOM

Heather wrote:

> As for dangerously self-absorbed kids with seemingly unlimited money,
> very little parental supervision, short attention spans, and a need for
> instant gratification?  Yup, they're real.  I've known them; my
> she'enedra went to a school in some ways very much like Jenks High, and
> she used to run with a similar kind of crowd.

I knew there was a reason I liked her! =)  BTW, whatever happened to her?
I haven't seen a post from her in forever (this is Barbara you are talking
about, right?)  Anyway, yes, those kids are real, I was one of them, and
they were not evil or mean-spirited, as Misty seemed to portray a lot of
them.  Nor were they as "self-absorbed" as they appear at first sight.
However, they were extremely cliquish (Union raised "ingroup" and
"outgroup" status to an artform).  I suppose that, based on my own HS
experience, it is plausible that a person like Faye might have the effect
of creating a bunch of monsters, though.  God knows my group got up to
enough extreme things.  We just never went in for harmful things (at
least, they weren't harmful until AIDS showed up in OK).

> Actually, I thought the title story was pretty good evidence that
> Starwind was *not* exclusively gay.  His -- whaddayacall -- valemates,
> whatever, accused him of having designs on Savil's body, which means one
> of two things.  Either Starwind was open to a heterosexual relationship,
> or he wasn't and no one realized that.

I haven't read the story, but I am not sure that this is necessarily
evidence for Starwind's bisexuality.  I mean, *I* have been accused (in
jest) of having designs on a woman's body, even by people who know that I
am gay.  I don't know if there is any evidence that the accusations were
made in a jesting way, but that is one possible interpretation.  Another,
less pleasant, one is that the author could not accept the idea of a
society where homosexuality would be something people were open about and
comfortable with.

> I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with Misty's philosophy on
> abuse and exploitation.

Then I will. =)  After all, why should you be the only one to criticise
Misty.  There is something wrong with saying that people do things because
"they are bad."  It basically takes away any possibility of preventing
such things from happening.  Not that we can prevent everything "bad" from
happening, but there is a (semi)known pathology to child and spousal
abuse.  We have come to understand that there are usually psychological
reasons behind a lot of "bad" actions and it is sometimes possible to
either treat them, or at least identify them as marking "at risk" people.
Which would you rather live in, a world where child abuse happens and it
is just "bad" and left at that, or a world in which child abuse is
identified as a "learned" behavior and programs exist to try and break the
pattern of passing it on down the generations?  Or alcoholism: is it
better to be in a world where people are alcoholics because they are "bad"
or in a world where alcoholics are recognized as sick and treatments
exist.  Not that the second choice is perfect (we can't prevent child
abuse from happening and not every alcoholic responds to treatment), but
it is better than the helpless feeling in the first choice of knowing that
there are "bad" people out there and there is nothing anyone can do about
it.

-----EOM/BOM

Becky wrote:

>	Why thank you, you are correct, I never did recieve the ceremony
> for Goddess of Tofu, although I've had the title for quite some time
> now, how on earth did you discover this? You must have a lot of free
> time on your hands to be doing archive reading.

'Tis all part and parcel of the Avatar biz.  "Phenomenal cosmic powers,
itty-bitty living space!" =)  Actually, I have been combing the archives
for Namings.

Which brings us to Vrondi's question:

> Does anyone have a complete list of our beloved Pantheon of list
> dieties?

Of course, ma chere.  I do.  Anyone who would like a copy should let me
know, *privately*.  I will send you a copy off-list.  I think I will also
put it up on my website.

-----EOM/BOM

Deniz wrote:

> One-Day Warning for Tensen! (Jan. 22)

Hipppuppy Bthrrrday! Tensen.

> Hookay... that takes care of that.

Deniz, you twerp! =)  You didn't include my b-day!  */me pouts and sulks
in a corner of the Hall of Mists!*  Oh well, even if you don't love me,
the Lodies of the Pink Wand remembered.  So there!  I am going to take my
marbles and go home!  *temper tantrum!*

/me giggles uncontrollably.  This is fun!  Now I know why little kids do
this so much. *grin*

May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit,

Cennydd,

Kenneth Allen Hyde     |  No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife
Univ. of Delaware      |  between the shoulder blades will seriously
Dept. of Linguistics   |  cramp his style  -- Old Jhereg proverb
kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu         |  A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me

**http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html**




begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
M>)\^(BD&`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!-+AT+-`(````Y 0```````#H``$--+AT+- 0`
M`-+AT+-````(``-+AT+-`!!) &`$-+AT+-!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#-+AT+-`````"`?\/
M`0```%<`````````-+AT+-2L?I+ZC$!F=;-+AT+-#=`0]4`-+AT+-````!M97)C961E<RUL86-K
M97E :&5R86QD+F-O+G5K`%--5% `;65R8V5D97,M;&%C:V5Y0&AE<F%L9"YC
M;RYU:P``'-+AT+-`", $````%````4TU44 `````>``,P`0```!T```!M97)C961E
M<RUL86-K97E :&5R86QD+F-O+G5K``````,`%0P!`````P#^#P8````>``$P
M`0```!\````G;65R8V5D97,M;&%C:V5Y0&AE<F%L9"YC;RYU:R<```(!"S !
M````(-+AT+-```%--5% Z34520T5$15,M3$%#2T590$A%4D%,1"Y#3RY52P````,`
M`#D`````"P! .-+AT+-$````"`?8/`0````0````````#;4(!"( '`!-+AT+-```!)4$TN
M36EC<F]S;V9T($UA:6PN3F]T90`Q" $$-+AT+- $`0-+AT+-```%)%.B!"<F%I9" H36]S
M=&QY(&%B;W5T(&UI;F0M=&\M;6EN9"!A;F0-+AT+-<W!E96-H('!A='1E<FYS('<O
M9FQU9F8I``D7`06 `P`.````S0<!`!8`%P`3`"<``P`_`0$-+AT+--+AT+- ,`#-+AT+-```,T'
M`0`6`!<`#0`F``,`. $!"8 !`"$```!#-3(R1C$Y1$%"-S1$,#$Q03<V030T
M-#4U,S4T,# P, #E!-+AT+-$#D 8`M" ``!(````+`",``0````,`)-+AT+-``````"P`I
M``$````#`#8``````$ `.0"-+AT+-A+]I]0B\`1X`< `!````0-+AT+-```%)%.B!"<F%I
M9" H36]S=&QY(&%B;W5T(&UI;F0M=&\M;6EN9"!A;F0-+AT+-<W!E96-H('!A='1E
M<FYS('<O9FQU9F8I`````-+AT+-%Q``$````6`````;P(]6F_G?$BQG2K$="G:D1%
M4U0`````'-+AT+-`># $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!(```!S;F]R=V]O
M9$!N;7-U+F5D=0````,`!A#(9>EI`P`'$,<F```>``-+AT+-0`0```&4```!(34U3
M145-4TQ)2T5%5D5264].14E30T%51TA455!)3E1(25-.24-%3$544U1!3$M3
M5$%.1$%21$E:141%3D=,25-(0DQ!2$),04A714Q,+$E$2$%4151/5$5,3%!%
M3U!,151(``````(!"1 !````$!\```P?``"#.0``3%I&=0>,TT;_``H!#P(5
M`J-+AT+-%ZP*#`% "\-+AT+-D"`&-H"L!S970R-P8`!L,"-+AT+-S(#Q0(`<')"<1'B<W1E;0*#
M,[<"Y <3`H,T$LP4Q7T*-+AT+-(L(SPG9.Q>2,3(X%^P'%L$-H-+AT+-M-+AT+-;F<Q,#-7%% +
M"A5B,A*P8P! (/!(;6TN'+ 1L!/-+AT+-!"" ;&EK92!E=-+AT+-20#GD"(!UP! `-+AT+-8V%U
M9&=H!4!U<!X0`Z!TUF-+AT+->(0,`8QUP;!' !""9`9!L:P8``9!N9 L19&EZ"8 -+AT+-
M11J-+AT+-'4!S)&-+AT+--+AT+-`F!A:"&R+B `(%=E;&PL($G>)R$0$8 3T!\0;Q\0(G'P('!E
M;PM0(S$?,2*-+AT+-]&)U!4!W'7 *P"3Q(Z%])5%O). A$"-1$8 =H""["&$F-+AT+-'<#
MH"/P"X!I`B _(J =D0.-+AT+-!I >$ 5 9&\O!Y$`P!U-+AT+-!"!U!"!H>=QP;P4!$] $
M("-+AT+-DXB5B-+AT+-24B;GEW87DI(C'^21\"'7 `P ) !) F-+AT+-"-+AT+-`[R<5'U$C8!WE=P--+AT+-
M&J F-+AT+-.\%P 40'H$G-+AT+-7-+AT+-?D 4Q'O.496DFM&T+-+AT+-&1S(C'^4A/-+AT+-+]$$D"*-+AT+-'R$:
MH 0-+AT+-N2A0(&<1P"J1+.!Y,0$_(J =0R]0*8$C$#$!('/_(] %D"&0"K KT-+AT+-8Q
M(($?$9LC$!X2;R! ).5H=0."?RGA(H($8!/ +!(I`"L"0=TT<7DB<3,B-,%S
M`W CX*\=\31C-\4K<6TK8GDE`\LMA!]";P5 9V\Y8S%D[SFD(V =0QW0=2S1
M!< %H/QN=-+AT+-N 'Y$YI33!//$FL:LG)!X2=-+AT+-= :2$0*!\-+AT+-KRD!+H +4S,B;3H-+AT+-
M9-+AT+-G-+AT+-_SE5-,$LY0/P(Z$=0Q\B*P+Z4R--+AT+-<RK-+AT+-)- ^928T(U'_0](T8A>-+AT+-+\(=
MAR2!!9 >8/<1L"32`A!R,8$PPC3"--0\;FPZ(#ZK-&(H4&XG_P5 1V8"(!^1
M'B$)\ A-+AT+-'H!_(J LX1WP)>1&L#3!*W)S^'5B:-+AT+-60*#(FX0/P'R!G)0`S4#,0
M8VLB,0J%2&\F4DXP'W,%H&TD`2,A4^4CT&,',2!+*$ JX J%,0J%+5-U,= Z
M(" ZCBE1; KT'4 Q.# "T>!I+3$T- WP#-!4PWD+63$V"J #8!/036$M7U;G
M"H=5FPPP5F9&`V$ZGU?N5F8,-+AT+-E$`)\%(>0VPP%M33510.AU-+AT+-4G$(0%5$(G N
M161U_EU7CUB=!F ",%G/6MLB8%ID'?!S43$BH$H`<'4/"L Z(!P0(J Q.3DW
M`6*P,3HT.2!03;-=?UB=5&]?OUK;<STQI'=O!'! 3-+AT+-7-+AT+-55TBGV/?7HY-)&7_
M6MM"<-+AT+-MP_3_A33:A2+$!H A-+AT+-!4 OPCHM(U M1<,T8C-N=R^=&G!U#=!2WU/D
M,S959_\440OR:F-+AT+-<D 20.& ML2V!]1/0.E%L/B*P19$1L (P_R-+AT+-21! GP2/5
M'.$K8G6'+.#]'?!X! `3T'9Q3 8+-+AT+-"OAKTU#+R0S94WC(AU"(C13D")Y)VLL
MX'<B=8?_'9,?$0G1=X$]<2_P(J!VT_TH("<HX3'0!9 'D$/0?8+7(V Q43A-+AT+-
M+E%L63T!=C?^/R)!*3""03=R=M$E(2#0_S>1/0$[Y1X0#;!.,$?F*M"J<PJ%
M(G])(H)!4 K _TYA'\ $($T0,Z&%4'N,/0'W?',F-"Z =$6A(G!15GG3[P>0
M,Q,T8C^D9E)-+AT+-36 LD_\>\3-D*Q(H`#SR)1**M-+AT+-F _R*-+AT+-//$*A2_ 'H(JT'9Q
M/'+?:" -+AT+-0#3!8D$QD4-+AT+-&\ >!SB<SP2/0,+$B1HPG+"'>)XC&D: +-+AT+- J%5SAQ
M2A ]-$1-E(-0D3.1>^ H3/\:D6)P,8 >XD.-+AT+-4, 1P&(1,G8B,#$U*P)U'BI)
M_BHX(A_ A5!N42BQ3B$]<?\$\"=00#(-T!=!1.,CT"BP_X?"(3:%02B03)"0
M!$:P=8=_,V U("?!46QT""*-+AT+-2?0JWR>BF0`[4"MB%Z A(D"5$/N<UYWF8D/R
M`W T4Y/'1!/_/7$3T(G -+AT+-D""<#3!(- '0.]-5#SCFV."040H8B-+AT+-A/Z#W'<""
M08UY80J%/3$`P ,-+AT+-YYMC*_0A-BA!=#$?-+AT+- .1_P6Q;3 H("%R!;$K0*4Q)W'-+AT+-
M8G1W/RF.RB& "&!^;"$0HA$!H"02FT>9-C/O-+AT+-V&+$DUA%Z!G>.(1H'Z!_RF"
M'N*H1B#0#="#,79QI3;_-*$#H*7G*="9)QWB"<"1T+^B\*5BK*$T8H[H5F%B
MKA'_.B!28 2!$\ T8D^1-=!&L/\L`Z4U'_%$)-+AT+-# .B [$JWN_PJ%`- S$!V-+AT+-
M2+ K$H?!31!_)2$\\C2DC82=\T$P"V!W]8=!<TBQ(-+AT+-6A%Z!-8'O-+AT+-^R$U"H4H
M.&(PXS24*%)*$O]XPRYVA]%.,$$03-+AT+-&1X2/0_G1B<(Z1HJ*_G!/0`-"#(:LW
M(![B2-+AT+-GP:P0-+AT+-2"XA_X[#)-"MEQ<P.+4#4 B0()!GOH(_D'UR<75.<4BP+/^V
M)P=P"L #$$$A!;&L<"--+AT+-[Q>-+AT+-A5 LH2(Q3QWTN2?'!]W*46LS(CZB$;!L* `=
MHKT*A6\=H6W3A^%N,2T)P/D(8' N>^!EP$SB?B/+-?_,%S:3(]4F0P!PBDC)
M0+O"_[32,V L$BMR-^+)0$Y2'Q#^<B2P(9 THQV7HN$>$IMC[S?S"H4:-+AT+-I9#
M;C,!N^(H1/\H(;[V2+![Y"MR.R"#(4Y!_G4-L (P+6&MDK8N!W '-+AT+-/^E,2.!
M.B G($Z 'K(_02MS_1' 80>!0] Q-+AT+-)(1=A!)]/^1T%9A)F*--+AT+-[LV-'%V$##B
MOR! I>,(8&]2P[ G(&1[X/L#4CZ4(BDQ!)"_!S-E-&)_W+K),2,A5F&1X4BQ
M=C4J_32B*H"-=?#6A-+AT+-.-+AT+-4 $'D?]-DR-1FB?>D-+AT+-M-+AT+-4,! Y!-0_RZP-J"K42RB
M-+AT+-Q/IB3H11K#_QZ$R,2-2*X%&L#:T01$!H/\#$*M1!Y" C4.-+AT+-QJ03P&U _]M4
MHQ%,M,AA+!)V4-+AT+-GP?X%_-%.U$-2Q!Y BH"X3-+AT+-D%"]T;$Q,8TLBH$`)D`-+AT+-Q3N
MN=\>XJGGA]&Q0E*!1P20`X'_U?'8YBL`"H70P8WR+,/9<?\(<%#AI3:IN32C
MML &,>T)__*5,0'[64B$N)P7H,DQC?+_,:'WXS:-+AT+-M,JY!23-+AT+-)2&VP/\1L//Q
MD]99-+AT+-/2!(9"TX1R0_\!"_N__\AX2_I$=\*-2-H3^4I1-+AT+-G- ?DI85-R#A^243
M_[:"74#]9%1 >V$?D-018I'_!C6L$2B!%;#5H1I0;R$KT?]0() 3W-+AT+-#M,7?V
M<K S$2,2K]8PAT))-+AT+-OHO92(Q*'80_T2DB;%B<"5P'9"$<3W"RL/_'S& AC=P
MUQ>/XJ;3K76)\']RP"5PG+ BH,HA/Z#><B[/</UU\N+$*W)*2-P8)1+Y(-!T
M>F(1ZQ8O).Q-+AT+--K'C\J4L(41.0;63=8GO`?_Q`$3"3.+?X3#4;-+AT+-4CU==B_=_0
M;)NA;Q)Z1(4Q?9(9-+AT+-L^=:-PV*%"78$DGHQ X8/^_(-WAC8/R`._SR#2;5(R3
M>X<PS-+AT+-!D.B#8YLFFF,!B=VY!-*)_$6HW$-I-+AT+-HO!W_W8!04* C=# *!,U(&(`
MR[*_;D'T$78Q4*%*,]]C(D(1_[Y!ZM%[X!!B8B!V$&-+AT+-02A)]0]=)]J<9(FX4
MV.=GT6+_RZ+0P$LA2R&E4,M!)F'O-+AT+-/_K<9!-+AT+-1P'O-+AT+-4XP+-/B5+LV][WPD&"P
M4'HRE!3WHQ!(,?^YLO0004"W,$:1;D$H],C3X6(-+AT+-5D526?*2='&*)_]N%$,B
M/_"D!*K1=A!#T:=B_\-+AT+-AU_7HH,5"F0# -+AT+-)IAU7CR<Z%13V9HY;\`SA(MDM^J
MP*-+AT+-2.05,]Y=-+AT+-*M P<M#:*A??36(`HA%-PA$V`?_6X9!B"))*H4:VX):_,:50
M__SPJM'"4'*AV7('4?00=8?^1Z503Y&Z`\#D-+AT+-S&78(+2_W[SV!'S]#'0!"44
M,+J!?O/_#P$>,4B417R#<LK!L% 2H>Q4>;J MS%L8B#?-+AT+-<OP^];AB/%E*-!N
M%#6P-+AT+-(W-+AT+-EO]\<BV2+T1!I(-R1).,L4WQ/X)01-+AT+-/M$=Q WE+B-+AT+-"=,_TQ#^UFB
MP8,RN?/C<_GQTF#_1R*"8L;UJX#OTI:$OR#K(/YS.I,9!DI7WW(_\;!0P/'_
MU05<\,/0#%#V,$0QRL)2U;^YH],CG+7W(MN':.5#E&#O:1#Z-+AT+-)*B-D!L*)$A
M-+AT+-MR2^X<`5;$H\'$/`78Q_S#1N?_?<EV9J %82=<A[;++(4:U?UG9K*$GML%G
MQ6"6$1YT9O\A)$I76M9\`D8"?Q%N((+B_8?18C-+AT+--+AT+-GB$PX_OXT76$PU]60L<&
MBD=6UGLT5JPB4_6Q$&:UE%EF8+<Q]8'_,/\)-+AT+-E9"]R#\0VB3-,1%2/,2!>D-
M+7)R14]-+T)O<M"7[%G-+AT+-^H!ZL-%<T&7Z.CF05_APZK+^-+AT+-=[AK&'_/A'JD?51
M*.)+H;H!FS*YP?\UL1X0RL'[,)?N=/$I0'EP]],4XR*-+AT+-8G*9`"Q-+AT+-.,"4\6]!
MLWW0LB$RI")9X!--+AT+-;'^(4)<0NO!EHOS0I8##<#__&%DH8T.4+T1K.-,E_;!\
M46=*\ N0;I%S+X#!P6!U_R-P>8$UL<(00[&85]OD3"'_>7&7['DR3\AJY^T!
M#F#/D-YM"[ ,49EQPM!"SA#Z-+AT+-/W \5?#T3C1E+)\$'Q"H,'_Y!&3Q^^SD'+5
M!1[4-;"#<?_0H-+AT+-12F7 WD):19F(WD-<B_]4%RT4NMTM10[+5<+X1B;;_R[&'
M,#;"+T.,`Y9-+AT+-R_#\T?_&I*-+AT+-"];-TP$&CL8;!A<M!_T0P)G&.Y-+AT+-X!1C#T$8!-
MR[%^03ZW,E,<$BQ-+AT+-K08W$&W_T?'OD-E #K2"`CGQ1##K\?TYD%8JP*OQ],3?
M<FVP.,#]<K!YP_)<T1)U&Z(XA=)-+AT+-_]X-+AT+-W''[0*%-+AT+->#\L8!#2$X#_-; ,TFS2
MM3 V<?-+AT+-3B-!U9+O4`>^09,M!F"#I#4AYQM],\S&R\A#>``=11WMP$Y#5:&$B
MHH!W(,1&JW'#</_;((GR5T+[U]<A.(63E>^ _X:1V"+KP)#A]ZK*P)EQ37'[
M/S$KM"CX$PL2Z]"?,MD-+AT+-_WK-+AT+-^:(XAF91Z'#/L,^0#T#_#F#8(<6P-,.?LGP0
M\*!GX?_7(>01#G(M<L?S2 (4,/- _VT3%#$XA8C1-Y!G<%HR=-+AT+-'_ZY&W\,NQ
MQF#"T(C1_"(F8/_8(4+8/P0KM,PC`-0XA5\!W?X0:>$-+AT+-V_&Z-+AT+-&:.LA--+AT+-O^]"
MYD.>HM]RRB'P`2^J!O\'T&ZC%7'PP/SPWW*(T>D&_1A(3\:1[X$HL4SS-;%>
MP__7<<^P0G(HLN^!:2 6L+J-+AT+-WWF!!( Y\D/!+&!LU.#C(C\D002 2G=/*"YD
MY)-E+?\6HR8-+AT+-R%&XP<6 O(.A-+AT+-('"^_!026-0$ "#-+AT+-N*62G=)8_Y#$Y#Z`(#-+AT+-
M.9!&4C] !*'_WT/5P*V UV)O-+AT+-KI##?*^!]\'X].&2N#$51?L65(PY1'_C &9
M`]X-+AT+-*O'-+AT+-EL*0%K#S0/?2$YCTZ*%E>I#(GXD8Q%+_-H28]&8C`F#P$HS!$^;5
M8?_5T,RSJ-+AT+-8!TUS3,7!_\CU'_S,QWQ%M$]O$8K7>T.8A!*'OW7=5,-+AT+-,"."!U
M]=!QCW*??P56`F$-L8NQ=(.=GX2S:?^!<0AP#N'P4,8F/E*8,^IQ__RQ-+AT+-",-+AT+-
M`! `[8$VAI]-+AT+-36 _2G?5P6QA`=,+$93#3VMG[& U<7P`*$(XP(LA<W=\42UR
M,E=*$Y EP1TZ5'\64![0K8!GXN(S6\&^<"W_#]'SL9'R\0%B8T?PJ[/LPN_K
MP#5P`\!*=RI+47J0().[!#0JTE=M(DLQ_-!W3('_,A%'0/F!#-+AT+-%TP!/D`S+T
M$?_R84IW8P)+4D923X0DA#10VQ*-+AT+->O!!%V$XP"]!0#!-+AT+-_X$SMR$(E.9D*6UW
M,74R$N'_PL&?\X,T_"(\H40Q0S$V<?_], ,1V,%&0WP`>K%\4:K!SQ73:.%K
M^&)R.#!H8,RR_RB1B^)9<3VV9;0E874Q+G/_0-+AT+-)B8YM .,":1V'G?_,>$/NX
M`4U2=CP`U]"!TI-+AT+-2HX!_#A->(8-+AT+-0%#!>`F6T*O%$_PRP8U8',)T`.(6VD0= 
M2)7_0:1>PQ= K4)-A(3M],AHXO_UDY>&.!/G!NF4,-*B-+AT+-1]"STSDB-",P>47
M2%,^$A*$WW<T9KD292RBT=(M9<%HPOMPDCVA;M'!V\!C8X6AY43_&=?U\D*D
M-K(XA<$SS<9HXG^X-5M0)!%282 -+AT+-M-*>P%7_7>*=;[O2KX,L(4SR-19O<__^
M(RW1&-+AT+-!C0TV6-Y LH0HD_VH3CK2)1\WBGL"3DM+A-D#_*O$3TXO$]G26`G 1
M"B1;5[]"\74R53(XA8[5A:$H.D#_$5BI(U03.!"S8KX#'-+AT+-A\$/_5P1+1CO!"
MP*61$*G V;_Q_RQ3,)+P<#=P+3!O-+AT+-G;A]&%_B ('58-+AT+-10:0T,%\-+AT+-D1!Y__?2
MG5!=)L,0FO!N\#A-+AT+-S!/_^"%#LJGA,*'IA?BZJG$R(G]4L2$AG5^>8YC1R#6 
MT"^_-+AT+-/)(,UM06F+?T!+Q8VIQ_]_"UM;M($IH12*,P*1AXU#_U=&>HC4B8&(A
M-WRB?8:)2/]IXT.R,A%IA(KTF1,OT<+!_Y/1;&&R(?1B11)NY'70WW#_JC#-+AT+-
M0*] _6J]=.V"3?_9[]^A^%GR-+AT+-Q'<'TJS05XATG$V9&72V*%SD]%#0&QF]BW7
MT&J-+AT+-<O!P>O#HXVT3_Y?R!#&3T53 TO#;P%*2H]']J4 L2G<6`M+AAD!),=4Q
M_\+!&N'&\+:1E5!-+AT+-$F[!V('_XI$F0CAD85%NL6?B? ",P/\ZI,5(7A":\%P1
MGV"'P!L-+AT+-;]<02B$R$%=16=7 G_0G=Y&R&M',LB>;\21RN!-M[COI47V7EU$G
MJ('L050!_UP2>^(JR//SZX&(($2#AH-_CM,*)9'Q;?-->-+AT+-_TWV%R_T+P;01/
M,4,AXU 1,:_2^B+_GW&ZIPOG)'#^-+AT+-35$:.)\`!]J==--+AT+-CM)_T<,0(2 ]\ZV 
ML;!45_8P^Y()4P[0_[:!KK&\`WUH"L1^LI?QGL+[)\"7(68^4,V-+AT+-UF*,(G?Q
M_Z,BJH'2P=+!X]'7P$Z!D6;?ZN($,:P&!(21XS]9,1S _GGK-+AT+-9%!;J+MQ.CC
MD:,:T?<*HFCBC+AM4BH-+AT+-B/;BB(/WTG$"`'!P+;2-+AT+-VY!#0O8Q_R=&E_)39"?%
M>_'DP-(!<,O]BV!.TG$-+AT+-U*JCI'% VZ[-+AT+-_\-+AT+-DJL&V-+AT+-:Q"7/'1T^T-+AT+-Z#']H99(
MO%2?]2#3]$';H?" ^S !TO!QSN"74.SP&X2^46T0$B($,=BA<&T!Y;<B_Y91
M<N5)H0^ F#.(0>/A=^'^;2RRTV*V-+AT+-.33#M'-+AT+-L8-+AT+-0_YM1H^'I84RR"H#5!?1 
M`I+?J( XX,P6.8"S\6G7X!]%[URAU(&CX8[31NN0YV+H,?N;Q_0P9ALP$W#5
M!55#/='_!#/-+AT+-P3C0UB$O0*/17.#4-+AT+-?\<&?&R)'+,<9]#U<$F(=6RO]]-+AT+->$;V
MX/:B<*6%$V>5\OG=<"!JF:"J8 E$3K-=I/\Z$0Y-+AT+-+\"Z(H.2[/$Q1J] ?Q;0
M])0-+AT+-M+\CA;4L8<)A07A)1%-&DB#0HY#B!$_^2RAW/Q-+AT+-3<*N D\$$Q-BR_P64
M-J1<X-)P`Y37D*TAH$+_LO%FD0^A..(+N+NPFN)4`/\-<\Y1]N'JP/1 PI!Z
M`=3-+AT+-_9/19^N2LI,\(,%RE;#KD/^-+AT+-H"^"DN'Q`*] $M ^<+F0]^Z)6=3V,6,W
M,! 2L!)D-+AT+-;\Z(00R+N%A0 !QH^%3]V+_I&$$-+AT+-+-069+7$F<2IJHQP?=DD3DA
M-+AT+-W=%Z^'\`9!;X$#?N )/$B4`?V'MX7B+X:-1_^?!`%*V84/HA7(&,RH3#7'G
MWB%D0AK":7I38-+AT+-[15<_?6];BP?SSC83-+AT+-MF'-H,:W_P5E7H1D4#C-+AT+-+P#50/>!
M>$;_CP;M-+AT+-I!6F$)R89VRJS',LW-G$O8P*DGJP/W8E>8H_<FW:KBAK8"6KY>R
M3I'C-+AT+->^_()A6"5%<-+AT+-&(GH3ECO2/_$5-+AT+-CEJ2ADD3,YB1Y-7.WD?^2(([[N".5
MXYXT(,/5!1+0_\\!\E'CH*PR!#)A\^#2S<3_9"1<P7H4R;!_88XR2H,<D__6
M0T/FY!%YLH=!2<'P$3,5[[0W!*#8-+AT+-?I";.]TE>'+P/<%E,[QXN-A!N;^P,*P
M`X+_-5/C<9V%J5$70;VB\'#SX_^#<Z]7-6*<DQ?TY:-+AT+->$5W1__$-+AT+->C)4`NNP
M+/Y,0*2UZY#_#H?]$RO!LU'"9#Y!MQ+KXKLG8RO!< 40Y,'-+AT+-0&-+AT+--P?_0!I P
MU]#U\?S#>+'DP/?P?[FT\NTRPF/A];'KL%DB0?YF?V'V06.QUO#I<?:!O;'_
M7V+!\1)B6"#WD0FU," $$?^_\&+ U04G8S8TLO3"*,E)?\=ZKV6QX(86'?%Y
M\3FF(O]M5")17Q!5L'2 ^9)W(4IA_XP!ZM$ZD.6!#:*S4KB4];#_P5)D-+AT+-8XQ
MWY)-+AT+-**4040&&)?]=%%I3!#%JX[>U(- `D'5!]]O5%>3"9"+8L72 71(YM[_>
M%;=VLN;L\&+ 0S I3)3WQ)!BD<J-+AT+-9PN!+"'*-+AT+-4-+AT+-Q_PUQ9V! <>KP8%?U\8/4
M.B/_'A-I`4+P%X%)H-+AT+-+E-41C0N=TX(OC`H!S>4]AY*'9-+AT+-O_$95?D%N(%$4-+AT+-R
M:=3-+AT+-U9. _[442!)Y=,(C`?%YL;BF-+AT+-?C_FV1PP06$9.%K(06!AS.^POTX468+
M-+AT+-O] _](BPN"C!8'_%Z Z-+AT+-'2 .52AMBWP,.+!E/]?8DH1/-+AT+-)$T#I!JZ!2(1=!
M_G*]L<!4Y27+XUI$[<;$9?^F`80S[04-<;N ST!N`G;$__%R]U43H9C4^"HG
M</G&\D37P !(,5>B(KN!<DY1(S%_[!"LT?%R#7$2H.JP2A!MO[,P-+AT+-O G<3/3
M$O%($F*C0?\%0CFFY%%_83+AV[$6T#BQ_P>A->*QT4S$+I!:-+AT+-4H2M3$]2M%/
MSW(X`.2!)W!M.O\9$C$W)8 #\B&$MF3W:J]E^V-"!P9CUQ=KE2)2[1)]1O]=
M-+AT+-_=,"QEC1#-+AT+-`EX"A(R:2_TI-+AT+-`Q#HDWWR'C!.T/Y&`</_WHJCDQX!D+%/84I-+AT+-
MO#-XT?]]`H: WT2(0=^V^"/F.MV=_Z EX!4+"&-QY<&H-+AT+-'3S$3?^*;=S^<:X
M`PB&>H K1"4`_FPY-+AT+-2\!?0">$ 3#*T1N1/\4!62!)'+5EC3;#)>O5L/R_^DE
MZ*.RY;I"&!1?8&11WW*_UI'#TQN'.S\\3\1E0J9 [FN'T3Y?D!%<Q3$MX?*B
M_V<P`Q!?86(A7W4X`#=1[7#[C#*$A&2^T ^RP !\=3C-+AT+-_W#16"!ID(_'/]* 
M49=!EZ']9)!4:A K<5_P?\1,-),A_XSI/])Q<2E 3^3NPH_'Y '_4B")L9>R
M;=%4(2TR7V(M,-U/4&^$HEYB2M!97W%0X/]<X3HD[(9=$%Q-+AT+-C\?NPI>ROU]A
M6B(:)0DAL>!^,W+X(<^JD:-"WE(I?"=4LR*3L?_$D: 4Q)%Y,&;!9).+H)00
MRY!AJ,%ZTU$B4,XQ4 '^;IW1+" '-+AT+-!FA=G"'\927^43A>2VHT(YB]K&7`D>A
M_7DP(72 SO.+R:IXYZ&HT-_5H^EB.P/^1H5B3K$P-+AT+-Y/?*7SU1 +0AD-TY%;)
M42TP'\B!<7"VTE-+AT+--+AT+-*6X-+AT+-1&__VB(D=#=%YZ$*D3+1!V'LL]\Y-+AT+-AQ0RJ"JD/A-+AT+-
M4+O!M(#_6"%D-+AT+-4U"C\<M,.ZQE(!;-OW$94]]P3F!8L!D\)10^!'_9A&QE;H#
M)(.OTL&4>U-,DOYPT =,\:G!Q&6R0JH1`3#WD>!9T7$0*K&3SI(3-+AT+-9"Q_U]C
M5+1J$&Q-+AT+-34*QDX-R`Q#_5Y5?\&R-+AT+-`V:D47EQ-+AT+-<%WA+^'\&R09Z$F+R<_Q&5$
MWC&6>BD/C_1/9% M1&F!;E?_\9<"A6)4^2$&`"&-AH!*9S#34#(R*2E\WY*-+AT+-
M=F!;4'9-+AT+-:9!"-1 L0#YRDU%BL&)4BJ]O<&]K_Y)19V#HQ=H#UU##4K*BH9__
M7U,KA)J N5%BL$-"-K(M,9^R`JN-+AT+-D:&V08#Q8BUE0WV1$"^#0>71$;#E=(7P
M:]_^1ZW"+"$&$3Y&2).B[-'YR?)S(:I0!L#U-+AT+-9X0S['_KN.RD36#L?-.(JG!
MGL:CDNY,-+AT+-&!043Y&4%GR89"0L=^#(D4`PT'8T---+AT+-4]:BPT'_;1&D-+AT+-XZ-+AT+-U9/6
MH=H!-+AT+-.&UM[YR>C'MQ(Z-+AT+-P*)VTBI?X,=,T/""N\%R=6UP\BE\\VU2ZL!G9WD2
M?J&7P )0_QF GB#O<--$I=2%X&*A$K'_LG"D-+AT+-+)#S^+;48U2\W Y\;^QX""7
MT^,VX9D`TU J`6#UJZ J*7Q-VG$35/,1"2'_.7/"()X-+AT+-CU$C%2]"MM'_-+AT+-M\N
M4(BP!? O0X14<![-+AT+-)-+AT+-![GL;$94,&`,C DT"'G4O?B)'"48N-+AT+-SZ#.04B(P*? 
M?8L"?-Z2\S$<<S1RI1!B]S(BHY+5$'K$H(C-+AT+-G0&R0.NRD+6F55]P=M-0[-%?
M4/^>()#-+AT+-#J&+!AQ1:L"<LJ.B_U4C\('O<+8QM5%7Q/0`Y>'OIL=?4+Y-+AT+-CK-,
MEP$RL+;A_P]1BS/2`+$P6]"!0\ -+AT+-"J'W7:$&P+VQ2-+AT+-H2PJ%?P!CA9F)5YHB2
M0%7H0,[ 1>YD*\"8=HM10:G [#+C0__/4?0`[W3DTYQ17^!BL)711DVUIL1E
M*BIH''!PT#HO+W>=("YL4<[ 6:M-+AT+-=2^7DYWB+IRP;;\^,3PP9V&=Y0%-+AT+-JM$N
MK5!_BH&F49Z#G) I?,1E7/)DXES;4#,V,%SPCR"KH,A<9C2C8',RHO%?PBL4
M\<1E?<1-+AT+-`*4-+AT+-`P`0$ `````#`!$0`````$ `!S -+AT+-JVZ2] B\`4 `"# -+AT+-JVZ2
:] B\`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B `````Q^T`
`
end


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:12:52 -0800
From: Tamarisk <clight-+AT+-icok.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: pouncer
Message-ID: <32E72B94.2AC8-+AT+-icok.net>

WinterRobin wrote:
>
> Tamarisk wrote:
> > And Meg...um...what exactly *is* the Pouncer??
> 
> tee hee you'll find out soon enough!! *says "and you thought Tigger was
> bad!" giggle*  Hey it's one of the best parts about the list! Feel
> privilaged *gryn*

It got me in the *chathouse* Monday!  I didn't know I'd have to watch 
everywhere I went!  No fair!  It was kinda nifty to have the list 
permeate over into another aspect of my net-life though...I'll have to 
post more often...
-- 
~Y )O( Tamarisk )O( Y~  clight-+AT+-icok.net
Lover of books, frogs, wolves, e-mail,
Goddess and God, Sassy, Toth, Katy...
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/4990

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:14:14 GMT
From: Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Viruses
Message-ID: <199701231114.LAA04252-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>

"Deeyenda" is another form of "Good Times" -- i.e. it's a hoax. This extract
from a recent CIAC bulletin:


Deeyenda Virus Hoax
===================

The "Deeyenda" virus warnings are a hoax. CIAC has received inqueries
regarding the validity of the Deeyenda virus. The warnings are very similar
to those for Good Times, stating that the FCC issued a warning about it,
and that it is self activating and can destroy the contents of a machine
just by being downloaded. Users should note that the FCC does not and will
not issue virus or Trojan warnings. It is not their job to do so. As of this
date, there are no known viruses with the name Deeyenda in existence. For   
a virus to spread, it  must be executed. Reading a mail message does not
execute the mail message. Trojans and viruses have been found as executable
attachments to mail messages, but they must be extracted and executed to do 
any harm. CIAC still affirms that reading E-mail, using typical mail agents, 
can not activate malicious code delivered in or with the message.


Mel

------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1071
**********************************