MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1072 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Braids Slaid :-) by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 2) how not to braid/ bad people/SoI ISBN info/Darkover cannon by ecartier-+AT+-mail.geocities.com 3) Re: Lying / Mindspeech by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 4) Re: Emotional Tolkien/OOPS/Tremane by Chris & Sean Talbot 5) Re: Lying / Mindspeech by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu (Nina Ehgartner) 6) Gala by "JAIME HATHAWAY" 7) Re: Gala by Chris & Sean Talbot 8) Hurdy-gurdies/"Linquistics" by JWSCHM00-+AT+-UKCC.UKY.EDU 9) Birthday Stuff/Bad People/Gala/Dialects by Aimee Dowd 10) braiding/birthdays by Deniz 11) Jennifer's 1st braid (how'm I doin'?) by Jennifer 12) overdone plots/lying/Choosing/Tremaine/LHM blurb/Zaleka/names & sigs by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 13) Re: Emotional Tolkien/OOPS/Tremane by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 14) Greetings/birthday/Gryphon books by ahri-+AT+-juno.com (Erika Plajer) 15) Hurdy-gurdies/"Linquistics" by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 16) birthdays/speech/weird-abnormal/ by Soljan-+AT+-aol.com 17) Books by Aimee Dowd 18) Re: Braids Slaid :-) by Tensen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:15:25 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braids Slaid :-) Message-ID: <9701231115.AA18128-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> Tensen wrote: > Can we volunteer to teach them not to braid?!? i trully hate braided > messages. > > > Tensen Hooray! I don't like them either - they're fine for one-line quotes and replies, but if I wanted to read several long messages one after another, I'd switch to digest mode :-). Keep the braids for *SHORT* messages, use normal messages for long ones. Hmm... While I'm at it.... I bestow a Personal Guard, of two Killer Penguins, with Mirrorshades, BeaKatanas, Violin Cases, and Flameproof Shields, upon Tensen - along with honorary membership of the White Eagle penguin clan. . -- _|_ Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) / | Hemel Hempstead, UK jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \_|_ www.selune.demon.co.uk (soon) \__/ Named Deity of Goblins, Killer Penguins, and Annoying Magic Items. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:51:52 +0000 From: ecartier-+AT+-mail.geocities.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: how not to braid/ bad people/SoI ISBN info/Darkover cannon Message-ID: <199701231151.DAA02488-+AT+-geocities.com> Tensen asked: >Can we volunteer to teach them not to braid?!? i trully hate braided >messages. How 'bout you teach them how to produce unbraided messages that don't make people want to throw virtual snowballs, bladed weaponry and assorted kinds of flames at them ? I get fed up when I see 5 messages from the same person, all on the same topic and it could have been covered by a single topic braid. Cenny said many clear, well thought out things on Misty's "Bad People" philosophy of evil. I agree with everything that he said, and just want to add a question. Does anyone feel like Misty's definition of a "bad person" may be flexible? In other words, good people are good, even if they do bad things, but bad people are bad, even if they do good things. It seems like no matter what the bad characters do, there is nothing good in them, even when we get a look inside their heads (see all sections where we see the thoughts of either Mornelithe Falconsbane or Emperor Charliss). I certainly have never heard of someone who liked to think that everything they did was evil... I find it hard to believe that all of Misty's evil characters have tortured little children, kicked dogs, and raped women all the time. Life kind of requires you to do other things at least _sometimes_. for Alisa (and anyone else who wants it): _Sword of Ice, And Other Tales of Valdemar_ ed. Mercedes Lackey copyright 1997 ISBN 0-88677-720-8 $5.99 US Daw Books It's a standard size paperback (whoo-hoo) of 350 pages . Lee asked: >Canon? Darkover has canon? Yeah, I know, that's what I thought... Basically for Darkover, all cannon means is that MZB wrote it, or she says that it is (she's the author, therefore she gets to decide). According to her, all the Friends of Darkover fan anthologies take place is a Darkover that isn't _quite_ the same one that she wrote about... And therefore, she doesn't have to take them into account when she's writing a book. She even wrote a story where Dyan Ardais was a good guy (Just Ten minutes or so... is something like the title). Anyway, this seems sensible if the author is going to authorize fanfic (and it's why I don't think anything not written by the author is cannon unless she says so). Ok, this braid is quite long enough (and even on topic in places...). Emily the invisible, who wishes she had brought her mother's collection of Darkover and Bujold to college with her... Dame of the OAM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:55:07 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lying / Mindspeech Message-ID: <9701231255.AA19761-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> Heather said: > If it is true that you can't lie mind-to-mind, I don't think it would be > because your thoughts send out I'M LYING signals. I think mindspeech is > much like verbal speech; what you say and how you really feel are fairly > separate, and you choose how much you reveal. Otherwise, you'd be > sending out all kinds of things to anyone with whom you mindspoke, from > "You are boring me to death, and I want to be somewhere else right now" > all the way to " Have you always been this gorgeous?" But > mindspeech seems to resemble conversation more than the transmitting of > your deep thoughts and impulses -- unless, of course, someone is > deliberately tunneling into your mind to pick up the deeper levels. Have you read the last Storm book yet? That gives the best description of mindspeech so far - at one point, it describes an artificial mindspeaking tool - through the tool, you just get speech, and "none of the normal background impressions" or some similar phrase; that's pretty good textevd to support the idea that normally, you do get some level of background signals - although I think it may go on to say that the extent of this varies with skill - I can't remember offhand. Anyway, it probably helps to answer some of the normal mindspeech debates - there *is* an audible component, so yes, you can recognise particular foreign words, and listen to foreign language songs/poems - and there is background information, which probably helps people communicate without a common language - presumably they just largely ignore the audio, and concentrate on the nonverbal background. (which nicely explains animal mindspeech, too :-) ). All of which probably means that the companions are pretty good at cutting down the background leakage when they need to be - or they do a lot more mind-meddling than we hear about - since I'd have thought that 'when I was a herald' memories would be *more* common than 'I used to look like this' ones - and more likely to be jogged in normal conversation... -- _|_ Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) / | Hemel Hempstead, UK jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \_|_ www.selune.demon.co.uk (soon) \__/ ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:08:15 -0500 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Emotional Tolkien/OOPS/Tremane Message-ID: <199701231408.JAA07664-+AT+-nemesis.idirect.com> At 02:06 AM 1/23/97 GMT, you wrote: >> If Tolkien doesn't write emotions well why do I cry whenever I read about >> Theoden king dying? Or when Gimli sings of the old days of Khazad-dum? > >How about the most emotional scene of all in LoTR, IMHO? The one where >Gandalf sacrifices himself so that the others can flee from the Balrog. I >was stunned for days over that. These scenes were sad some what but I mean I knew that the whole thing would turn out and that Gandalf would come back. Plus to me it didn't seem near realistic enough. I mean Mercedes LAckey's Velgarth novels have really only humans that are the main characters. Her books seem more emotional no matter how I look at it. Her books seem to always have something sad in them. The first book of the Vanyel trilogy you see a death, or suicide more accurately. The ohter books you see stuff like that. The constant state in which Vanyel feels that his family can't trust him around the children. Tolkien never had anything like that in his books. Aistes ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:18:17 -0600 From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu (Nina Ehgartner) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lying / Mindspeech Message-ID: <199701231416.AA032898990-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu> >Heather said: >> If it is true that you can't lie mind-to-mind, I don't think it would be >> because your thoughts send out I'M LYING signals. I think mindspeech is >> much like verbal speech; what you say and how you really feel are fairly >> separate, and you choose how much you reveal. Otherwise, you'd be >> sending out all kinds of things to anyone with whom you mindspoke I agree. When you speak, you edit what you want to say and what you want to reveal. And, what about so-called pathological liars...I'm sure they don't give off signals or much of any indication that they're not telling the truth. I also think that because of the intimacy of speaking mind to mind, it would be difficult (but not impossible) to lie when communicating in this manner. Put that with the bond between a Companion and his/her Chosen, (or between two Heralds), it seems less likely that this would happen. But, the Companions can and do hold out on their Chosen, so who knows? Nina Ehgartner Admissions Assistant-Office of Admissions and Financial Aid J.L. Kellogg Graduate School of Management email: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu Phone: (847) 491-3308 Fax: (847) 491-4960 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:29:01 CST From: "JAIME HATHAWAY" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Gala Message-ID: <3DC27B41ED-+AT+-future.judson.edu> Well, I've been reading the posts on Gala, and I just have a few thoughts about her to share. I really like Gala as a character. She is unique in many ways, the most significant one to me being that she "made mistakes," as Savil pointed out. Nowhere else, with the exception of Gwenna (and she doesn't count to me, as she's GB), does anyone ever admit that Companions make mistakes. I always wonder, what could Gala have done instead of repudiating Tylendel? *Could* she have done anything else? But what I really like about her is that once she repudiated, she committed suicide. I think it shows how much she loved 'Lendel, and how horribly the loss of their bond affected her. I don't think she sacrificed herself exclusively to save the townspeople. I think she committed suicide because she knew she'd die anyways without 'Lendel. To me that seems so tragic and romantic and well...you get the idea. She couldn't stand the thought of living without him, so she killed herself. I try to imagine what she must have been feeling when she came through the Gate. Here, her Chosen, the other half of her soul, was committing this horrible act, (irrelevant that he was insane, the effect was the same), and what was she to do? How it must have simply torn her apart to break that bond with him! What was going through her mind in that instant? "Why did this happen? Why didn't I see it coming? Why do I have to do what I know I have to do? Isn't there another way?" This conflict makes her unique among all the characters in Misty's Velgarth. We so often see Companions as untouchable, unreal, that when one such as Gala, with her sense of humor and beauty, and *realness* comes along, I, for one, find a deep connection with that character. I wish there were more of her type. And I wonder just what is she doing now without her Chosen? No, there is no bond, and no reason for her to be in Sorrows, but I wish that I knew for certain that she was somewhere happy at last, for she, of all characters, deserves it. 'Lendel got a second chance to make things right. Did Gala? I'd like to think that she and 'Lendel made up once he joined her in the Haven, if only for a moment. Well, that was a digression and a half! Thanks to (Lee?) for answering that question I had on Zaleka. If you find the textevd, will you post it please? Thanks. Bright day, everyone! Jacquelle "You broke your little ships." Lily to Picard Star Trek: First Contact ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:54:34 -0500 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gala Message-ID: <199701231654.LAA02315-+AT+-nemesis.idirect.com> At 04:32 PM 1/23/97 GMT, you wrote: >Well, I've been reading the posts on Gala, and I just have a few >thoughts about her to share. I really like Gala as a character. She >is unique in many ways, the most significant one to me being that she >"made mistakes," as Savil pointed out. Nowhere else, with the >exception of Gwenna (and she doesn't count to me, as she's GB), does Well I know that if I had made mistakes wouldn't you have tried to cover it up especially if I was one of the companions of a herald-mage trainee. I know I would have tried that. I think what Sayvil was trying to do there was make Vanyel also feel better and try and get him to open up. I always thought he mistake was that she didn't realize the kind of secret that Tylendel was keeping from her. >anyone ever admit that Companions make mistakes. I always wonder, >what could Gala have done instead of repudiating Tylendel? *Could* >she have done anything else? But what I really like about her is There wasn't really any time for her to do anything but repudiate him since she couldn't really let those people die when there may have only been a handful who were actually responsible for what actually happened to Staven. >that once she repudiated, she committed suicide. I think it shows >how much she loved 'Lendel, and how horribly the loss of their bond >affected her. I don't think she sacrificed herself exclusively to >save the townspeople. I think she committed suicide because she knew >she'd die anyways without 'Lendel. To me that seems so tragic and Okay my theorie differs from yours. I figured that Gala either had to suicide because she couldn't bear to have another chosen that may end up like Tylendel or that she truly knew what he was capable of just didn't really do anything to help him stop the downward motion he was going in. Gala would have been able to read his mind after his twins death. She was his companion after the pain he could have shielded but not while he was unconcious. So she should have known that he was capable of murder. >Chosen, the other half of her soul, was committing this horrible act, >(irrelevant that he was insane, the effect was the same), and what >was she to do? How it must have simply torn her apart to break that It just wasn't that he was insane. It was that he couldn't feel anything except revenge. He didn't care that his life bonded was tied to a gate that was draining him. He didn't care about anything except his revenge. I think that if he hadn't went berserk or insane that he could have tried to do something and get help for what they had done to Staven. >conflict makes her unique among all the characters in Misty's >Velgarth. We so often see Companions as untouchable, unreal, that Not true completely. She may have been the only companion that was like that. But what about Talia with her special gifts and all that she went through. She was like Tylendel without really anyone but Rolan until later. She didn't really come to terms with her full gifts until the second book and she came close to ending up like Tylendel in how she almost was killed because of her gift. Isn't that the same type of thing. Kris also knew what he had to do in training her gift. >when one such as Gala, with her sense of humor and beauty, and >*realness* comes along, I, for one, find a deep connection with that >character. Talia has given me the same type of realness because she didn't find it easy to fit in and she didn't always find answers that worked. She was like us having to use trial and error to fix her mistakes. >right. Did Gala? I'd like to think that she and 'Lendel made up >once he joined her in the Haven, if only for a moment. I believe Gala would have still loved him even after the repudiation and would forgive him anything. They may not have had the bond but I do believe that they would have still loved each other. Lendel suicided because he couldn't live through the pain right. Well there was not a lot he had to live for really only VAnyel and Sayvil. So they would have made up in the afterlife of whatever. Gala would most likely forgive him and then be reasigned or just go right into the HAvens where she could spend a long time in peace. Aistes Bonded to Kesta ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 13:47:05 EST From: JWSCHM00-+AT+-UKCC.UKY.EDU To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Hurdy-gurdies/"Linquistics" Message-ID: <970123.135427.EST.JWSCHM00-+AT+-ukcc.uky.edu> Heyla all, First off -- just got a really nice CD by a Quebec group called Ad Vielle Que Pourra. Now, a vielle is a hurdy gurdy according to the liner notes and this group uses one in a variety of songs. They also use an accordion, sakuachi, bouzouki, Flemish bagpipe, breton bombarde and various and sundry more common instruments. I like the way they put it all together (and they seem to have a warped sense of humor 8-)). *** In my linguistics class wwaaaayyy back in the Dark Ages ('77), we did a section on how an in group develops "slang" terms (I know, Cennyd, I've forgotten all the right terminology) in order to enforce the in-group/out-group dichotomy. I would expect to see some evidence among of the Heralds of this. In fact, I don't remember seeing much slang in Velgarth at all. People use other languages (Shin'a'in), but not much of what I'd call slang. The only thing I remember is the migration of the word that turned into "shaych" from the Hawkbrothers to Valdemar. Can anybody else think of something I've missed? Maybe we don't see much of this because we don't see a whole lot of Heralds interacting with non-Heralds? Any thoughts? Slinking back into the mists, Mistfox ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 14:32:25 EST From: Aimee Dowd To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK Subject: Birthday Stuff/Bad People/Gala/Dialects Message-ID: <970123.151934.EST.AIMEDOWD-+AT+-UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> First off, I want to extend warm birthday greetings to all the January birthday people. Happy birthday, y'all! =) And, to the Custodian of the Birthday List, here's my birthday: 9/30/73. ********** Cennydd said, "There is something wrong with saying that people do things because 'they are bad.' It basically takes away any possibility of preventing such things from happening." Yes, that's so, but you have to remember that the character in "Blue Heart" who said that was A) speaking to small children and B) was in hiding while said bad person was torturing and killing his friends and neighbors. I can understand why he might not feel like pondering the deeply-rooted reasons why Baron Munn was behaving that way. That said, I agree with what you said. If you ignore the underlying causes of a behavior, how can you ever hope to change that behavior? "Because he's bad" just doesn't cut it. Misty does have a tendency not to examine her evil characters' motives too deeply. ********** Jacquelle said, "I'd like to think that Gala and 'Lendel made up once he joined her in the Havens, if only for a moment." Thank you, Jacquelle! Yes, that's exactly why I was bothered by Gala's absence in Sorrows. Their last moments alive together were just so awful! Their actions must have left emotional wounds on both sides. I'd feel better if I knew they had had a chance to reconcile with each other and to try to heal those wounds. ********** About dialects in Misty: for some reason, the valley-speak in JH didn't bother me at all. I hardly even noticed it! But what *did* bother me was the Southern accent in _Born to Run_. Specifically, the use of the word "y'all." Here's an example from BtR, when Tania is remembering how she became roomates with Laura and Jamie. (Laura is speaking to one person here -- Tania.) "'All right,' Laura had said. 'Y'all can stay. But y'all gotta pay your own share. We ain't got anythin' t' spare a-tall'" (BtR 92). Folks -- y'all is plural. One person is "you," two or more people are "y'all." It drives me crazy when authors use the word y'all to address just ONE person. It sounds so *wrong*. I have lived most of my life in Georgia, and I have NEVER heard anyone use y'all in the singular. Never. Okay, I just had to get that off my chest. Now I can get on with my life. =) -Aimee, Dame of the Order of Amber and Marigold. Aimee Dowd aimedowd-+AT+-uga.cc.uga.edu *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." -Groucho Marx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 15:42:11 -0500 From: Deniz To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: braiding/birthdays Message-ID: <199701232046.PAA11827-+AT+-sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> Okay, I'm seeing some squabbles on the merits of braiding... is this a good summary on the topic? BRAIDING Okay, there seems to be a lot of debate on this topic. Basically, the reason braids were invented was because too many one-liners and similarly short posts will cause Vanyel (the listprocesser) to break down. However, the problem with braids is that sometimes they get too long and make people feel like they're reading digests. Basically, if you're going to write a one-liner either don't, incorporate it into another message, or send it private. If you want to respond to several posts on the same topic then please BRAID. It is really irritating to see several short messages by one person in a row on the same topic. It's so much easier to have them all together. However, some people don't like braids because they can grow to epic proportions, often covering more than 10 topics and easily take 1000 bytes of memory-- not fun. But there are reasons for this latter type of braid, as well. Some people only write once a day, but contribute to many of the discussions or are eloquently verbose in their contributions... so rather than respond to each seperate message seperately, or seperate the different topics for different braids, they combine it to form a mega braid. (I'm not pointing fingers, I tend to fall into the lattermost(is that a word?) category, myself) If you want more arguments for braids, write to: Emily the Invisible or Cennydd If you want more arguments against braids, write to: Tensen or Jerry Cullingford How does that sound, people? Do you want your name added to or taken off from these contact lists? I'm still compiling the list of contacts for the different systems out there, and have to run to class, so I won't be able to include that in here today. :( ***** On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Ken Hyde wrote: >Deniz, you twerp! =) You didn't include my b-day! */me pouts and sulks >in a corner of the Hall of Mists!* Oh well, even if you don't love me, >the Lodies of the Pink Wand remembered. So there! I am going to take my >marbles and go home! *temper tantrum!* On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Tensen wrote: >Correction, that was a Warning for Gyr's burthday on January 22nd, >mine is Feb 23rd. Ack! My files are incorrect and people are throwing tantrums at me?!?! Hey, cut the Custodian a break! Things like this happen... I didn't have Gyr or Ken's birthday, and had Tensen's on the wrong day! AAAAAaaaaarrrrrggggghhhhh!!!!! Oh, well... you guys know how to fix it... if I didn't have to run to class right now, I would be writing up gifts, but I'll do it later tonight! :) Oh, wait a minute... ObMisty... I'll write a lot about Gala tonight, ok? love, Deniz Sarikaya, High Priestess of |"Perhaps today IS a good to die!"-- Worf Procrastination, Holy Custodian of|"You told him about the statue?" -- Riker the B-Day List, Dame of the OoAM, |"I'm a doctor, not a doorstop." -- EMH and Demon of Deceitful Aliases. |"Definitely not Swedish." -- Lily >dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA< >freakola-+AT+-geocities.com< >http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/9359/< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:13:42 -0600 From: Jennifer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Jennifer's 1st braid (how'm I doin'?) Message-ID: <199701232316.RAA89464-+AT+-audumla.students.wisc.edu> Jayenna said: >I think we can all agree(speaking as a myself, that Misty's >stories, how she makes her characters come alive, and have such an emotional >appeal, that age doesn't have a bearing in how much we all enjoy them. the >only ones I really didn't like were Jinx High, and the Bardic voices, except >the LatW. Really? You didn't like Bardic Voices? I thought that those got better as they went. L&W was ok, R&K was better, and so was E&N I liked the characters of Lark & Wren, but I thought the plots of the other two were more solid. >********** Aimee said: > On the subject of Van's disappearing Bardic gift: I forget who brought >this up -- was it Nightdancer? -- but I'm glad you did. This occurs to me >every time I read that line ("Vanyel had them all. Each channel she tested -- >with the sole exception of Healing -- was open.... And -- irony of ironies -- >as if the gods were taking with one hand and offering a pittance as >compensation -- the Bardic Gift." MPawn, 215.), but I always forget it soon >after. Not only does his bardic gift disappear after this one sentence, but >his non-existant healing gift appears out of nowhere! Suddenly he has just >enough healing to be able to do things like make Medren get the measles. I >guess this is an instance of the author having a better idea between books one >and two. > I always noticed that and it drove me nuts. I wonder if she just forgot which one she had him not have open, and just picked one without checking her previous writing. I still love those books, though. ********** Aimee continues: > I just have one last thing to say about LHM, and then I'll stop. In MPawn >Savil makes a joke that, no matter how many times I read it, I just do not get. >She just asked Van to take her with him and Stef to visit his parents. He says >yes. Then: > "'Give me two days,' Savil said, looking eager. > 'Don't take more than that,' Vanyel told her, as he got up and headed for >the door. > 'Why?' she asked. 'You don't take *that* long to pack!'" (115) > > You don't take that long to pack? What is she talking about?!?!? That >would have made sense if Van had said, "Oh, I won't be ready that soon; take a >week instead." But as it is, Savil's little joke just doesn't seem to fit. >Will someone please explain this to me? First of all, it's in MPrice. This may not be true, but I always assumed it was a typo. I thought it was supposed to read "I don't take *that* long to pack" meaning why was he worried about her taking too long. To which I believe he tells her that his courage would melt away if he had too much time to think about going home. Of course, I could be wrong. It happens a lot. ******************** BTW- people keep mentioning stories from an anthology including that now-so-controversial story about Savil and Starwind. Could someone please tell me what it's called? I work in a bookstore, own almost everythingMisty's written, and I haven't heard of it. According to some people, apparantly I'm not missing anything, but I would still like to read it and judge for myself. Thanks :) ******************* Sunny said: >OK, the garbage at the end of my messages should have stopped by now. Is >there anyone out there still seeing. Yeah, for some reason, Sunny, I'm still getting attatchments I can't read with your posts. I don't know why. ****************** David said: >I still like the Empire sections of Storms and hope Misty explores >this more, whetted me appetite she has. >btw, to all the "Misty is going down the tubes" faction: I disagree entirely >wtih your position. IMNSHO, Storms is as good as anything she has ever >written (baring LHM, of course, but that is a masterpiece) I found it >riveting, waiting for the next book was torture both times and i want >more!!!!!<-count 'em >Although I would like to see the books she is never going to write also. >8-{)# > Thanks, I totally agree with you. I liked the Mage Storms a lot; probably because I'm fasinated with how the different cultures she's created interact. I thought Tremane was an interesting character. It took me a while to get used to Karal as a main character, but that just shows how well Misty showed the stereotypes Karal was up against in Valdemar if even the readers didn't entirely trust a Karsite. ***************** While I'm at it, I'd also like to petition for membership in the Order of Amber and Marigold. I love Vanyel and promise to protect him from nasty hard objects. **************** On a non-Misty off note- Did anyone ever read Tamora Pierce's Song of the Lioness Quartet? i seem to be the only one to have ever read those books. They're so good, that someone must have read them sometime, but I haven't met anyone who has that hasn't been forced to by me. *************** Liseth said: >Another thing that's been bugging me (all day) about LHM is the back of >MPawn. At least on my copy (pbk), the bag has this completely fictitious >accounting of what takes place in the book. Truthfully, I think someone who >quickly skimmed it wrote the spiel, then two editors who hadn't read it >changed it and didn't check back with the original spiel-writer. And then >I'm still not sure how they managed to get something so entirely wrong. The >only thing right about it is the names of the characters. > That bugs me too. I think the person who writes those should be drug into the street and shot. "By the time Savil seeks the assistance of a Shin'a'in adept..." Not to quote Kero or anything, but Bloody Hell! The day a Shin'a'in Adept named Starwind is walking around is the day I digest my computer. That and the line about Vanyel being born with "near-legendary abilities" that put Valdemar in "grave peril'. what is with that? ****************** Happy B-day, Gyr, and Happy B-day Tensen! . BTW to anyone who's interested-my b-day is 9-17-78 I don't remember who started the DS9 jokes, but I am also a fan. David said: >and with all the lightbulb jokes... I gotta do it... if there are any V:tM >players... >How many Toreador does it take to screw in a lightbulb? >3-One to change it, One to write an elegy to the dead one, and one to write a >song of joy for the new one. >Or >All of them, One to change it, the rest to yell, "Bravo!! ENCORE!!!" Oh no. Not another Toreador. I play in the largest live action V RPG in the US that uses the WW rules. I've played Tremere,. but my current character is Gangrel. Let's just say she puts up with the Toreador..;) Well, I have to go. Yes, I know I'm behind, but I do actually have classes, and i'm double majoring. Talk to you all later. Zhai'helleva, Jennifer Witch and Keeper of pet gargoyles Mistress of firelizards and dragon stuff **************************************************************** Jennifer Dorn jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu "There are more things on heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." -Hamlet **************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:51:55 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: overdone plots/lying/Choosing/Tremaine/LHM blurb/Zaleka/names & sigs Message-ID: <01IEKBT0I3BM9EDAEE-+AT+-delphi.com> On 22-JAN-1997 21:41:16.9 mercedes-lackey said to AERDEN me>Chantal (Chantal? Are you new? Hi.) said, "Tremaine is the best me>character Lackey has come up with in years--complex, mature, and me>subtle. And to top it all off, he's even a decent human being. :) me>I'd like to see her write an entire book about him and his intrigues. me>Maybe even two or three books. I would not find them painful to read me>in the slightest." me>Yeah, Tremaine was neat. He seemed to interrupt the plot, which was me>what I found disturbing. True. Tremaine's actions in no way affected the process of discovering the wave cancellation solution that solved the immediate problem of the book. However, IMO, finding that wave solution was a very tenuous plot at best. If the book had been nothing but that, I'd have gone to sleep through the beginning and middle. Tremaine's segments provided something exciting to be happening until the climax in the Dhorisha Plains. This makes me begin to wonder if the trilogy might have been condensable into two books. The wave solution could have been a minor climax later discovered to be an incomplete solution, and then whatever will happen in SB being the final solution, found in the second book instead of a third. Anyway, a lot of the wave cancellation's discovery process was hints, not, as far as I could tell, active plot drivers. Most of the pivotal points in SR were not decisions. Karal did not figure out a way to get the other ministers to respect him; Solaris had to come in and gave him her public stamp of approval. Firesong did not figure out himself that his thoughts were flawed; the mindhealer (forgot his name) had to save him. Karal did not get to start making decisions until he decided to 1) interview Tremaine in private and 2) invite Tremaine to join the alliance based on his impressions of that interview. That is when the wave cancellation plot began to truly interest me. Side note--I will be curious to see if the storm-induced mental corruption continues to affect Firesong's mind. And will it affect the minds of other characters? In a way I'm a bit disappointed, though also relieved, that Firesong got a kick in the rear. It would have been fascinating to see his descent into darkness--and then to see if he could claw his way out of it. Lackey did a beautiful job of showing how seductive the obsession was. me>I think it isn't necessary to stop a story in order to explore a me>character; you can learn as much about them (although in a more me>inexplicit, me>readers-would-have-to-think-about-it-in-order-to-be-able-to-explain-it me>kinda way) through the events of the plot as through watching them pace, me>fume, and threaten to destroy their bondbirds. Oh, I agree! One should definitely combine introspection with action. And if you can somehow show the introspection the action, that's even better. I did enjoy the pacing, fuming, threatening to destroy his bondbird scene, though. I think that Misty is actually interested enough in me>Tremane to have written a separate book about him alone; since me>everything we learn about him that's relevent to the Valdemar-side of me>Storms could have been conveyed from Karal's point of view (such as me>through the scrying scenes), for the sake of putting together an me>evenly-paced story his point of view should have been left out of me>Storms entirely. Mebbe I shouldn't post "what she shoulda me>done" comments. I like the books, I just can't resist thinking about me>how I would have done it. That's what I get for studying writing. It's a free country. (g) If I were the author I would be interested to know how those who take the time to analyze such things would suggest I improve my writing. You have to use your own judgment, of course, but if enough fans tell you, "The plot was weak in X scene because of Y," that is a help to the author, i think. Chantal `[1;31;44mRainbow V 1.20.2 for Delphi - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:51:28 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Emotional Tolkien/OOPS/Tremane Message-ID: <01IEKBSLZE089EDAEE-+AT+-delphi.com> ShadowWolf--Yep, I'd like very much to know what happened in the Empire after Tremaine lost contact with it. Emperor Charliss was a rather inriguing characer, himself, and I'd like to find out what became of him. Chantal "The best-laid plans of mice and men gang aft agley." --Robert Burns `[1;34;41mRainbow V 1.20.2 for Delphi - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:20:22 EST From: ahri-+AT+-juno.com (Erika Plajer) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Greetings/birthday/Gryphon books Message-ID: <19970123.201904.3015.1.Ahri-+AT+-juno.com> Lee writes: >Welcome back Ahri--you left in, what was it, November, right? Things >actually calmed down pretty quick. Come on in, the water's fine! >Sword of Ice is an anthology of mostly-Valdemar stories (a few take place Yes, I think it was November. And I'm glad to hear things DID cool down. Whew! :) Thanks for the info on the book. Did it just come out then? --------------- Alright, I don't know why I am saying it, but since everyone else's birthday seems to be anounced, mine is June 23. So you listfolk have a good long time to come up with something nice. :) One question: What is with the Gryphon books? I stopped in at the new/used bookstore I frequent, in the hopes they had them. They didn't. I asked the owner of the store why she never has them, and she said she is unable to get ahold of them.. either Misty has changed publishers or somesuch, she didn't know. I WANT THOSE BOOKS! :) It might be a stupid question, I don't care. :) I did manage to get the Arrows trilogy.. AND found out that Misty would stop in to the Griffon(the store) on occasion when she lived here in South Bend. Blessed be, Ahri-+AT+-Juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:27:30 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Hurdy-gurdies/"Linquistics" Message-ID: <01IEKD27X9OY9D4CK7-+AT+-delphi.com> On 23-JAN-1997 14:23:30.7 mercedes-lackey said to AERDEN me>In my linguistics class wwaaaayyy back in the Dark Ages ('77), me>we did a section on how an in group develops "slang" terms me>(I know, Cennyd, I've forgotten all the right terminology) me>in order to enforce the in-group/out-group dichotomy. I would me>expect to see some evidence among of the Heralds of this. In me>fact, I don't remember seeing much slang in Velgarth at all. me>People use other languages (Shin'a'in), but not much of what me>I'd call slang. The only thing I remember is the migration me>of the word that turned into "shaych" from the Hawkbrothers to me>Valdemar. Can anybody else think of something I've missed? me>Maybe we don't see much of this because we don't see a whole lot me>of Heralds interacting with non-Heralds? Any thoughts? me>Slinking back into the mists, me>Mistfox The lack of slang is probably due more to simply wanting the book to be easily understandable by a large population-- notwithstanding. (g) Lee--Yep, I'm new to the list. I joined a couple of days ago, and am thoroughly enjoying myself. You people are fun to write to and read. Jennifer Dorn--You like Pern? So do I! Nice to meet you. Jayenna--My objection to Bardic Voices is that it glories in the (to me) tired theme of 'The Evil Government/Religion/Whatever Oppressing the Poor, Innocent Magic-Users/Bards/You Name It.' This same theme has somewhat turned me off of Barbara Hambly's work, too, even though I like her writing. Chantal/Aerden ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:29:21 -0500 (EST) From: Soljan-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: birthdays/speech/weird-abnormal/ Message-ID: <970123183337_1624910900-+AT+-emout15.mail.aol.com> Happy Birthday to Tensen, Benoit, and Joan Ferguson! As a gift, I give you... Each person recieves a small bow wrapped in silver paper. Upon opening it, they find a ring. It is a 'Moon ring. :) It will change colors according to your true mood, and will give you the right words to say anytime you need them. Words of encouragement that is. It won't help you on a test! :) Enjoy! Cennydd replied to Summersong: >>You resent it? Why? And where did you get the idea that it was "unnecessary"? Particles such as "like" and "you know" have extremely interesting and valid functions in speech. If you are interested, you might want to look at Janet Holmes' paper, "Functions of 'you know' in Women's and Men's Speech" (Language in Society, v. 15). << There aren't many people where I live who speak exactly like some of the examples. But I and my friends certainly use "like" and "you know" a lot. Along with some other terms. "Like" is the most frequently used though. Mostly it pops up when someone is describing something. "I went to the store, and they had this like, thing there. It was like a new food or something. So I like, went over and..." like that. The worst thing is when someone gets trapped in a stutter of it though, and it comes out "I'm like I'm like I'm like I'mlike..." :) Someone who's name I've lost said: Like, whatever do you mean? *chews gum and looks up at everyone, > hands on her hips* Now, I am not one to disagree with that > view. Even though I am in JH. In fact, that's probably why :) I know what you mean, though I never hear that dialect around here. The people here in Rochester NY have something of their own. A very flat "a." Raaahchester. :) Drives the choir directors nuts. "You are not from Raaachester! Sing open! Ah!" Hehehe. The only other word I can think of is pronouncing "our" like "are." "It's are turn." I dunno if that last on is regular modern American or just around here tho. And then there's weird spelling from e-mail/chatting, which I won't even get into. And someone else who's name I've lost said: >Now, hopefully, since I believe (and have been told ) that I am strange > (weird, abnormal, etc. The list just goes on and on.. ;), I don't fit into > this cliche.. Hehehe...I believe that I fit into that category as well. My two best friends and I are our little group. We can work with just about anyone, but we'd *much* rather prefer to be with ourselves. I share all my classes with one of them, but the other is all alone for hers. Which isn't very nice for any of us. We don't really belong to a set group either. We're just *us.* We're not to popular kids, the sports players, the grunge kids. We do a little of everything. ObMisty: I saw SoI in the store, but I decided against getting it. I didn't really have the money, or the time to read it. And one more thing. One of the aforementioned BF's is almost done with AotQ, and I'm giving her AFlight tomorrow. I dunno how she liked it. She said it was good, but that's about it. Luckily, my sis and I own just about all the Velgarth books, so she can catch up to us. Lady Silvermoon LIG, Leader of the DDMF, LotPW, Dame of the OAM, Goddess of Sensitivity "And rescue me from me, and all that I believe....and if I fall from grace, here with you, will you leave me too?" Smashing Pumpkins "Galapogos" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 20:53:15 EST From: Aimee Dowd To: Mercedes Lackey Discussion List Subject: Books Message-ID: <970123.210216.EST.AIMEDOWD-+AT+-UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> Jennifer said, "On a non-Misty off note -- Did anyone ever read Tamora Pierce's Song of the Lioness Quartet?" I have! I liked it, too, but I wish I had discovered it when I was a tad younger -- high school, say. I think I would have liked it more back then. For some reason those books felt to me like she wrote them with a younger audience in mind. While we're on the subject of favorite books, I want to recommend Nina Kiriki Hoffman's _The Thread that Binds the Bones_ and Emma Bull's _Finder_. Great books, both. Eeek, I gotta go! It's later than I thought. Murder One is on! I'll say more about those books later. (If anyone expresses interest in this thread, that is. If not, I'll just leave it be.) -Aimee Aimee Dowd aimedowd-+AT+-uga.cc.uga.edu *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." -Groucho Marx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 21:45:25 +0000 (GMT) From: Tensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braids Slaid :-) Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Jerry Cullingford wrote: > > Hooray! I don't like them either - they're fine for one-line quotes and > replies, but if I wanted to read several long messages one after another, > I'd switch to digest mode :-). > > Keep the braids for *SHORT* messages, use normal messages for long ones. > I agree. And unless the first portion of a braid that is several paragraphs long interested me, I don't bother reading the rest. I thought the whole point behind people braiding messages was to cut down the horde of one-liners that would cause excessive stress on the list, and the list mistress. I see no problem with 2 maybe 3 topics in a braid, but anything more and I'll just delete you and go on. I don't want to read digest. Tensen ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1072 **********************************