MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1076 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: plea by Eleonora 2) insects/plots/Misty's def. of evil/Pern (with screaming fits)/ by ecartier-+AT+-mail.geocities.com 3) (no subject) by Steve Mattila 4) Re: Flame by Ken Hyde 5) Oops Ceremony by Brian Bennett 6) reappearing gifts/Tremaine by Jan 7) Re: fantasy/fiction/fairytales by Barbara G Jacob-Mcdowell 8) Gala/Pern by Aimee Dowd 9) Re: Rowain's question by Eleonora 10) Re: oops/plea/evil/fluff by vrondi-+AT+-juno.com (Chrys A Dean) 11) Re: Norton/Zaleka/Harmful Things/Bad People/Tolkein/SoI by MOONSHADOW SILVEREYES 12) Re: Flame by awand-+AT+-mail.idt.net (Kymberli) 13) RE:insects/plots/Misty's def. of evil/Pern (with screaming fits)/ by "Cynthia K. Meeks" 14) Re: Flame by "Katie P." 15) Re: Norton by rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Cat Person) 16) Re: (no subject) by Scott Montroy 17) Re: Gala/Pern by davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker) 18) bonds & channels/Mindspeech/Storms by Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> 19) NewbieFest: Part the First by Deniz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 04:31:11 -0300 From: Eleonora To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: plea Message-ID: <32EB083F.45B-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy> Deniz wrote: > I'm sorry to be writing this to the whole Misty List, but it's List-related... > > One of my folders on my client disappeared on me... the one where I had kept > all of the volunteers to help with different things... if you did volunteer > could you e-mail me again? (I know David T. and Cennydd have stuff for Pine, I > know Em has stuff for Pegasus and Eudora light, and I know *someone* said > they'd do Juno, I just don't remember who, likewise for aol... anyone for > Netscape?) > OK, I am replying on-list so that everyone else knows that there is a volunteer already. I am more than willing to help with Netscape, so count me in on the volunteers. Apologies for the almost-oneliner. Love, Ele (who has been lurking for a loooong time) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:37:45 +0000 From: ecartier-+AT+-mail.geocities.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: insects/plots/Misty's def. of evil/Pern (with screaming fits)/ Message-ID: <199701262032.MAA00554-+AT+-geocities.com> Wow, 1st digest was boring, nothing really to reply to, but the _second_... Oh, and Deniz, maybe you should keep working on the update but repost the Newbie fest like, now. Or are you waiting for a digest where we don't get a newbie ? Rune, said: > My fiancee suggests that insects are not considered animals. Sorry, I don't think they've reworked Biology that much since 1992 (time of my last bio course). They are in the Kingdom Animalia, and Phylum Insecta. No dice. Are you sure you want to keep him? How can one live with a man who would make a mistake about _science_? Unless of course, he can point me to the journal (it would have to be a journal) where someone proposed a reworking of the classification system where the phylum Insecta was no longer in the kingdom Animalia. Kimi-chan, I loved the flame . Kimi the Pooh said: >Cen, not self aborbed? TINAF, but in what sense are you talking >about? I wanna know too! Still Kimistics: >Um... *wince* "One month developing the outline" Also remember >she's talking about writing a romance novel, and no offense, but >those things really don't have *that* much plot. So she's developing >more details than it would appear at first, in that time, I'd think. >*sheeps away as quickly as she can* No offense taken. But if you screw up the plot in a romance novel it can ruin the book even more easily than in spec fic. There are lots of books I won't even touch because the plot is too easy to screw up, or it's too repetitive, or it doesn't really suit the characters as written. (This is giving me a truly strange idea involving doing the plot of _Shards of Honor_ as a historical romance...*giggle* Don't hit me, I'm a Bujold fan!) Kimit said: >Whoa. When you look at people, is that not how you classify them? I don't classify them by good/bad. It's more drunk all week/drunk only on weekends/doesn't drink/doesn't get drunk/flies combat/studies engineering/music major/not in college/etc... I think you get the point. If the person fits into a category I deem undesirable, then I will work with them to the best of my ability if required, and avoid them the rest of the time (usually I try to define undesirable with a long list of categories that cover only one individual). I can only define "bad" for me. For someone else, it might be good... The world is full of shades of grey... Kim said: >So - maybe, this might be a long stretch - Misty is saying what >you just said, tacitly =) Is what I said a good thing? I knew (person is dead now) a man who Misty would call evil. My mom would not let me be alone with him (quite reasonable), but she didn't shun him, or try to get him arrested or do anything else punitive. And she didn't say to my dad that she wouldn't tolerate having this person around her children, make him leave. Instead, Mom prayed for him. And this person (very obviously) didn't spend all their time being evil... In fact, he did some good things. So if Misty's definition of evil is set up so that it _will_ produce contradictions when applied to the real world, is it a good definition (note, I am defining by the examples in her fiction, not necessarily the stated definition)? Hth, I liked the essay. Are you sure you couldn't have come up with a few Buddhist, Shintoist, and Hindu holy things, just to cover all the bases (g)? After all, you got the neopagans, Catholics, other Christians (I think the angels are ok in all forms of Christianity...), Jews (angels again), and Muslims (more angels). You coulda had a clean sweep of the major world religions ! Aimee said: >But I think the real difference is in feeling. Take,for example, >Anne McCaffery's Pern series. Can I *not* take it? She continues: >I would call it fantasy, even though we learn in _Dragonsdawn_ that >it's really science fiction. It still *feels* like fantasy. To me, >dragons equal fantasy, even if they exist because >of scientific genetic manipulation and not magic. AAAGHH!!!!! Since when do they publish fantasy in Analog? Please, tell me that so I can write a letter to Mr Schmidt explaining why I willen't be subscribing to his magazine. (this is frustration talking) Why in the world do people assume that Pern is FANTASY? This is getting seriously old. There is nothing in the original book (Dragonflight) inconsistent with it being a lost colony. In many ways, Dragonflight is a better piece of lost colony sf than Darkover. I think I'd better stop now (Aimee, it's not personal, you just hit one of my pet peeves). If anyone wants to argue with me, lets do it private. I finally have my Geocities web page in working order. All the major pieces are up, and all the links work. I'd really like it if some of you would visit and send me comments about any problems you may have with it. Oh, and it's not a Misty page, it's a Deryni one (there are three _real_ Misty pages, and KK only had a listing of her bibliography). The address is http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/7726/index.html Thanks in advance! Emily the invisible Dame of the OAM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 14:35:35 -0800 From: Steve Mattila To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <32EBDC37.3731-+AT+-winternet.com> Heyla! I am fairly new and I have a question that has been driving me nuts for many days about the companions. Am I wrong in assuming that Kero’s Companion Sayvel is really Van’s aunt Savil? I realize that in Oathbreakers The Star-Eyed says: “And you, My gentle child- are leshya’e Kal’enedral of another sort, hmm? Like My Hands, and unlike. Perhaps to complete the set I should see if any of My Children would become as you. What think you, should there be sable Companions to match the silver?”(p. 82) Would this alone give reason to suspect(assuming that a person had not read the storm series that states that the Companions are dead Heralds.)? The names are very similar. I thank you for your responses. There are very few people to talk about Myste with in the backwater town I come from. By the way(*evil grin*), did you know that if you read Burning Water you are an atheistic devil worshiper? That was what my ex-social teacher said. He asked what I was reading during his lecture instead of listing. I knew that he claims to be a strict Christian, so I flipped the book open to the page where the details of the different rituals were. He read about two paragraphs and refused to give me my book back because it was not permitted to read occult works during class. With a brief talk with the councilor, I received it back and spent the next several weeks bringing in books that look like they are on occult subjects. Suffice it to say, he told the entire school that I am an atheistic devil worshiper. Just to be mean, I told a local Episcopalian priest what happened and he went to school with a copy of Burning Water and said simply, “May your life be interesting.” -Rowain ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:53:16 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Flame Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Jan 1997, Kymberli wrote: > Stormy eyed, trembling with fury at this balatant irreverence, the > white-robed novice turns to her God (of Karma), sends a breath of a > prayer for what she's about to do... [snip] > "Nightdancer, for thy careless use of souls in summoning bondbird souls > with thy breeding, and by my power as both priestess of Karma and Goddess > of Many Names, thou art condemned, as the Wheel turns, to a life sentence > being a bondbird. Suddenly, a shimmering voice speaks: "She is *NOT*!" To the Lady Nightdancer, I have not given my aid to my over-zealous priestess. Nor would I. I apologize and hope that you will accept my assurance that I had no involvement in this attack. The rest of the List, please be aware that I, in no way or guise, authorized or supported this flame on the Lady Nightdancer, who has (so far as I can tell) been most willing to abide by the usages and customs of the list after they were pointed out to her. Nor do I (of all people) object to the idea of fluffy list like the bondbirds (after all, I am currently maintaining an equally fluffy list), so long as the bulk of messages pertaining to the giving and naming of bondbirds is done off-list (as is the Pantheon, Birthday List, LotPW, etc.). (BTW, this should not be interpreted as an opportunity to give me a bondbird.) May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me **http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 16:17:52 -0800 From: Brian Bennett To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Oops Ceremony Message-ID: <32EBF430.1236-+AT+-erinet.com> ******** OOPS Fluff ********** Aerden and Lady Silvermooon, thy request has been heard and looked upon with favor. I ShadowWolf, God of Stupid Chess Moves now name you as ladies (or knightresses if you prefer) of the Order of Putzer Servants. As members of the Order, you are charged with the keeping of the Mysteries of Fischer. Mysteries so mysterious that only the Fischer himself knows there meaning. Swear now to hold sacred all mistakes, blunders and errors made upon the chessboard and to sympathize with chess putzers where ever you may find them. ShadowWolf God of Stupid Chess Moves "Checkmate" -- Garry Kasparov http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4398 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:50:09 -0500 From: Jan To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: reappearing gifts/Tremaine Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970126225009.006d75dc-+AT+-pop.mindspring.com> Hey, Y'all!(Ack!,k do people really use it as singular?) Been chcking my bookstore for weeks----finally found SoI---now I can find out what all the fuss is about. Wyvern wrote >Vanyel's disappearing/reappearing gifts: I have to reread LHM, now, just to >>find out for sure. Great... : ) For some reason I seem to recall him using >>the Bardic Gift somewhere. Argh, I can't remember where, though. It was in one of the songs in the back of MPrice---He uses the bardic gift to defeat an enemy. Jennifer wrote >I thought Tremane was an interesting character So did I-- I thought he is one of the most interesting Misty's created in a while. I was disappointed he didn't figure more in the plot of SR. I had assumed,(not having read SB), he would figure majorly in SB, But am picking up hints that he doesn't :( I found myself looking forward to his appearances in SR--a relief from Firesong's incessant whining. (I did thoroughly enjoy the scene of him chasing his bondbird, though. ) I think I like tremaine because he is complex--more so than many of Misty's recent characters. I can't figure out why Misty introduced such an intriguing person and thenn doesn't use him to further the plot. Jayenna ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:53:13 -0500 (EST) From: Barbara G Jacob-Mcdowell To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: fantasy/fiction/fairytales Message-ID: Thanks to my usual state of being-up-to-the eyeballs with work from mid-Dec. until late Jan., I've missed most of the discussion except for Digest 1075. What I did read was interesting, and sparked a few thoughts. It's only been in the last half-century or so that we have become so conscious of genres and niches. I overlap half-an-hour a day with our night manager, who works pitifully hard at being what he considers hip and intellectual and cool...and fails! But anyway, he loftily informs our students that "real" literature does not include such things as fantasy and science fiction and mysteries...and has alenated almost all of them, then wonders why our boss is having such a hard time coming up with people to fill the late-night shifts.....Yes, he's a jerk, and thanks to the holidays and everyone but me working shorter hours, I've had to spend more time than usual with him in a very small room. Anyway, now that I've sniped at him for a minute, I feel a bit better and can get back to what I meant to say in the first place. Part of this genre stuff comes from publishers and bookstore chains trying to pin down particular audiences for their books--a marketing strategy. A friend of mine who is a talented writer, submitted a manuscript to just about every publisher in English-speaking countries, and while their rejection letters unanimously praised her work, they also all said that they couldn't accept it because it didn't fit neatly into any little niche. She rewrote it as a romance novel, and not only got it published, but also got a contract to do three more. Her goal is to make enough of a reputation with romance novels to eventually be able to do the serious historical novels she *really* wants to do. Take the *Outlandish* series by Diana Gabaldon: the publisher calls them historical fiction. Most bookstores put them in the romance section. A few put them in the scifi/fantasy section. They have elements of all three, but where they wind up depends on which aspect the buyer for the store singles out. I have never yet seen *Sacred Ground* put with mysteries in any bookstore, although the plot IS constructed as a mystery. Tolkien, in his famous essay on stories in *The Tolkien Reader*, talks about secondary worlds. A good science fiction and/or fantasy and/or fiction writer creates a secondary world so convincing that we lose ourselves in it, we suspend our power of disbelief while reading it. Sometimes those secondary worlds are very close to reality. Sometimes they are wildly different. Sometimes they deal with a reality that is no longer true or not yet true. Yes, *The Princess Bride* is fantasy. Yes, it uses a lot of the fairytale characteristics. Yes, it is also a satire--although I don't recall anyone in the digest I just read mentioning that. As a storyteller who tells a lot of fairytales (and legends, and family stories, and literary tales, and a few of my own), I've thought a lot about fairytales and audiences. Some of my audiences have no idea what a charcoal burner did, or a spinster, or a tailor or cobbler. But the emotions in the stories, the examples of courage and true love and sacrifice and humor: they are what keep the stories alive. Some of my adult audiences start out thinking that they are just being polite to listen, that they are too old to really enjoy such stories, and so on and so forth. And they get caught up. Why? The stories are good. The characters are good. The appeal to their imagination, and the memory of a past time when some beloved adult told them stories, and the emotions in and from the stories, get through their exterior grownupness. Mind you, I don't mean that all stories, including fairytales, are equal, or that there shouldn't be any litcrit, but I am saying that the initial and most important thing about a story, any story, is that it speak to the reader/listener. Even if they have a very hazy idea of what a waulker does. I know that none of the above is at all polished, or anything but rambling, but thank you for getting me to think about this today. --Barra Jacob-McDowell Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb Harpers have pluck--but don't get strung out.--Barra the Bard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 97 17:31:24 EST From: Aimee Dowd To: Mercedes Lackey Discussion List Subject: Gala/Pern Message-ID: <970126.180550.EST.AIMEDOWD-+AT+-UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> Chantal said, "Aimee -- Mmm..I've got to disagree with the idea of Gala being wrong to repudiate Tylendel because he was insane, not evil." Well, considering what Tylendel was doing, I certainly understand why Gala repudiated him. Although I wasn't expecting it the first time I read the book, I was in no way surprised by it. It made sense under the circumstances. But I always felt (and still feel) that the text wanted to lead the readers to think that Gala was wrong. The other Companions ringing the death bell for 'Lendel even though he had been repudiated, Savil saying that Gala made mistakes, and the fact that Gala's repudiation of him is what finally pushed him to commit suicide -- all of this makes me feel that we the readers are supposed to think that Gala was mistaken to repudiate him. I don't have any definitve, incontrovertable textevd to support this; it's just the impression I got from reading the book. Either one of us could be right -- there is evidence to support both positions. ********** Emily the invisible said, "Why in the world do people assume that Pern is FANTASY? " Whoa! Sorry, I had *no* idea that this was such a contraversial subject! Pern was just the first example of how fuzzy the boundry between fantasy and science fiction can be sometimes that came to mind. I read the Dragonriders Trilogy and the Harper Hall trilogy before _Dragonsdawn_ was published; when I first read those books, I had no way to know that Pern was really a lost colony and the dragons were genetically engineered creatures. So, to me it was fantasy, and it still *feels* like fantasy, even though I know it's really not. The individual books _Dragonsdawn_ and _All the Weyrs of Pern_ are definately science fiction, though. Anyway, I don't want to start a fight about Pern, and I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone when I made that post, so let me apologize to Emily and to anyone else I offended. I'm sorry, everyone! Chocolate fire lizards and sheeps to all I inadvertantly upset. -Aimee, Dame of the OAM. Aimee Dowd aimedowd-+AT+-uga.cc.uga.edu *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." -Groucho Marx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:19:54 -0300 From: Eleonora To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Rowain's question Message-ID: <32EB3DDA.5C20-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy> Steve Mattila wrote: > > Heyla! I am fairly new and I have a question that has been driving me > nuts for many days about the companions. Am I wrong in assuming that > Kero’s Companion Sayvel is really Van’s aunt Savil? Heyla! Welcome to the wonderful madness of the Misty list. You are indeed quite right in assuming that Savil and Sayvil are the same spirit, so to speak. It is the same with Tantras and Tantris, Jaysen and Jasan, and some others I can't remember. At least this seems to be the list consensus and there is a lot of textevd to support it. If you need to ask questions about list netiquette or anything, feel free to contact me (infodyn-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy). I'm fairly new but will probably be able to help or at least point you in the direction of someone who can. Bye for now, Ele Priestess of Karma LotPW Dame of the OAM as yet unnamed Priestess of Night Assistant to the Chef Adept ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:09:25 est From: vrondi-+AT+-juno.com (Chrys A Dean) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: oops/plea/evil/fluff Message-ID: <19970126.181758.8367.1.vrondi-+AT+-juno.com> Deniz I volunteered for Pegasus Mail for Windows and DOS. I can also help with Juno and Netscape. -Vrondi (Bard of Amber and Marigold) "Here he comes across the lake. He's comin' for his birthday cake. Sing 'Happy Birthday, Dragon Don,' And watch him blow the candles. . . on." -Shel Silverstein(Falling Up) http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/book ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:01:56 -0600 (CST) From: MOONSHADOW SILVEREYES To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Norton/Zaleka/Harmful Things/Bad People/Tolkein/SoI Message-ID: <01IEOEPHDCN6001JEM-+AT+-TITAN.SFASU.EDU> >Yep, ElvenBlood, etc, was supposed to be a tril.--last I heard (someone >announced it on list), Andre Norton was quite sick and in the hospital. I >imagine there'll be some delay on the project. (Let's hope it is just a >delay and not...=( ) Actually, according to Ardath Mayhar, fantasy author, friend of Ms Norton and my boss, the delay(s) (she hasn't had anything new anywhere for a while) is caused more by the fact that she moved and her mail wasn't being properly forwarded (she moved to the boonies) and she and some others are busy setting up the women of fantasy writer's retreat. KAt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:56:10 -0500 From: awand-+AT+-mail.idt.net (Kymberli) To: nightdancer-+AT+-hotmail.com Cc: Ken Hyde , mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Flame Message-ID: >Suddenly, a shimmering voice speaks: "She is *NOT*!" > >To the Lady Nightdancer, I have not given my aid to my over-zealous >priestess. Nor would I. I apologize and hope that you will accept my >assurance that I had no involvement in this attack. Katie, I apologize. (aside to the shimmery voice: ~no~ involvement?) It was in a mostly hum'rous line, I thought, but I probably went overboard. I'm sorry. Forgive me? If I can do anything for you in the future, please let me know. :( I'm unsubscribing as soon as I send this message off. Kenny, you're the Avatar of Nomenclature; as such, I'm reporting to you my official abdication of any and all posts I hold on the list. Ele, you were right, I didn't get very far in the temple at all, did I? ::sob:: Auntie Mel, I'm very sorry for cluttering up your list. Bye, everyone. I'll miss you... Wind to thy wings, Kimberly ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:18:00 -0600 From: "Cynthia K. Meeks" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE:insects/plots/Misty's def. of evil/Pern (with screaming fits)/ Message-ID: <199701270114.TAA20884-+AT+-mail.gte.net> > > Wow, 1st digest was boring, nothing really to reply to, but the > _second_... Oh, and Deniz, maybe you should keep working on the > update but repost the Newbie fest like, now. Or are you waiting for a > digest where we don't get a newbie ? > > Rune, said: > > My fiancee suggests that insects are not considered animals. > Sorry, I don't think they've reworked Biology that much since 1992 > (time of my last bio course). They are in the Kingdom Animalia, and > Phylum Insecta. No dice. Are you sure you want to keep him? How can > one live with a man who would make a mistake about > _science_? Unless of course, he can point me to the journal (it would > have to be a journal) where someone proposed a reworking of the > classification system where the phylum Insecta was no longer in the > kingdom Animalia. memory> > > Kimi-chan, I loved the flame . > > Kimi the Pooh said: > >Cen, not self aborbed? TINAF, but in what sense are you talking > >about? > I wanna know too! > > Still Kimistics: > >Um... *wince* "One month developing the outline" Also remember > >she's talking about writing a romance novel, and no offense, but > >those things really don't have *that* much plot. So she's developing > >more details than it would appear at first, in that time, I'd think. > >*sheeps away as quickly as she can* > No offense taken. But if you screw up the plot in a romance novel > it can ruin the book even more easily > than in spec fic. There are lots of books I won't even touch because > the plot is too easy to screw up, or it's too repetitive, or it > doesn't really suit the characters as written. (This is giving me a > truly strange idea involving doing the plot of _Shards of Honor_ as a > historical romance...*giggle* Don't hit me, I'm a Bujold fan!) > > Kimit said: > >Whoa. When you look at people, is that not how you classify them? > I don't classify them by good/bad. It's more drunk all week/drunk > only on weekends/doesn't drink/doesn't get drunk/flies combat/studies > engineering/music major/not in college/etc... I think you get the > point. If the person fits into a category I deem undesirable, then I > will work with them to the best of my ability if required, and avoid > them the rest of the time (usually I try to define undesirable with a > long list of categories that cover only one individual). I can only > define "bad" for me. For someone else, it might be good... The world > is full of shades of grey... > > Kim said: > >So - maybe, this might be a long stretch - Misty is saying what > >you just said, tacitly =) > Is what I said a good thing? I knew (person is dead now) a man who > Misty would call evil. My mom would not let me be alone with him > (quite reasonable), but she didn't shun him, or try to get him > arrested or do anything else punitive. And she didn't say to my dad > that she wouldn't tolerate having this person around her children, > make him leave. Instead, Mom prayed for him. And this person (very > obviously) didn't spend all their time being evil... In fact, he did > some good things. So if Misty's definition of evil is set up so that > it _will_ produce contradictions when applied to the real world, is > it a good definition (note, I am defining by the examples in her > fiction, not necessarily the stated definition)? > > Hth, I liked the essay. Are you sure you couldn't have come up with a > few Buddhist, Shintoist, and Hindu holy things, just to cover all the > bases (g)? After all, you got the neopagans, Catholics, other > Christians (I think the angels are ok in all forms of > Christianity...), Jews (angels again), and Muslims (more angels). > You coulda had a clean sweep of the major world religions ! > > Aimee said: > >But I think the real difference is in feeling. Take,for example, > >Anne McCaffery's Pern series. > Can I *not* take it? > > She continues: > >I would call it fantasy, even though we learn in _Dragonsdawn_ that > >it's really science fiction. It still *feels* like fantasy. To me, > >dragons equal fantasy, even if they exist because > >of scientific genetic manipulation and not magic. > AAAGHH!!!!! Since when do they publish fantasy in Analog? Please, > tell me that so I can write a letter to Mr Schmidt explaining why I > willen't be subscribing to his magazine. (this is frustration > talking) Why in the world do people assume that Pern is FANTASY? > fit> This is getting seriously old. There is nothing in the original > book (Dragonflight) inconsistent with it being a lost colony. In many > ways, Dragonflight is a better piece of lost colony sf than Darkover. > I think I'd better stop now (Aimee, it's not personal, you just hit > one of my pet peeves). If anyone wants to argue with me, lets do it > private. > > I finally have my Geocities web page in working order. All the major > pieces are up, and all the links work. I'd really like it if some of > you would visit and send me comments about any problems you may have > with it. Oh, and it's not a Misty page, it's a Deryni one (there are > three _real_ Misty pages, and KK only had a listing of her > bibliography). The address is > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/7726/index.html > Thanks in advance! > > Emily the invisible > Dame of the OAM But, Dear Emily... You speak of insects being considered an animal in the Scientific world... I speak of Insects not being considered animals in the realm of magic! Rune P.S. And, Yes I think I'll keep him! *giggles* ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jan 1997 02:10:51 -0000 From: "Katie P." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Flame Message-ID: <19970127021051.6735.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> >>Suddenly, a shimmering voice speaks: "She is *NOT*!" >> >>To the Lady Nightdancer, I have not given my aid to my over-zealous >>priestess. Nor would I. I apologize and hope that you will accept my >>assurance that I had no involvement in this attack. > >Katie, I apologize. (aside to the shimmery voice: ~no~ involvement?) It was >in a mostly hum'rous line, I thought, but I probably went overboard. I'm >sorry. Forgive me? If I can do anything for you in the future, please let >me know. :( > >I'm unsubscribing as soon as I send this message off. Kenny, you're the >Avatar of Nomenclature; as such, I'm reporting to you my official >abdication of any and all posts I hold on the list. > >Ele, you were right, I didn't get very far in the temple at all, did I? >::sob:: Auntie Mel, I'm very sorry for cluttering up your list. Bye, >everyone. I'll miss you... > >Wind to thy wings, >Kimberly > > What is going on. I was gone over the weekend(in a haunted cabin), and when I come back, I am told I am unsubscribed(not this message. From home page) and there is a message about a flame and a attack, and apologies. WHAT IS GOING ON?!?! Some one help me. What happened over the weekend. Nightdancer Breeder of Bondbirds Sulena and Zamy make sounds of distress. Calls help to other bondbirds. --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 21:36:20 EST From: rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Cat Person) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Norton Message-ID: <19970126.203705.4070.1.rozanm-+AT+-juno.com> On Mon, 27 Jan 1997 00:14:44 GMT MOONSHADOW SILVEREYES >>Yep, ElvenBlood, etc, was supposed to be a tril.--last I heard >>(someone announced it on list), Andre Norton was quite sick and in the >>hospital. I imagine there'll be some delay on the project. (Let's hope it is >>just a delay and not...=( ) > >Actually, according to Ardath Mayhar, fantasy author, friend of Ms >Norton and my boss, the delay(s) (she hasn't had anything new >anywhere for a while) is caused more by the fact that she moved >and her mail wasn't being properly forwarded (she moved to the >boonies) and she and some others are busy setting up the women > of fantasy writer's retreat. That's odd. It said on the Science Fiction / Fantasy Writer's of America homepage that the retreat had been cancelled since Andre Norton was ill and in the hospital (as is Jo Clayton). Does this mean she is NOT ill? Please tell me this is the case! With MZB having had a stroke (??? I think), it seems good writers are (pardon the expression) dropping like flies. . . /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Firemist rozanm-+AT+-juno.com Lore-Mistress of the Cat People Goddess of Made From Scratch Foods She Who is Hip-deep in Kleenex ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 23:22:18 -0600 From: Scott Montroy To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: (no subject) Message-ID: <32EC3B8A.47AC-+AT+-flash.net> Steve Mattila wrote: > By the way(*evil grin*), did you know that if you read Burning Water you > are an atheistic devil worshiper? That was what my ex-social teacher > said. He asked what I was reading during his lecture instead of listing. > I knew that he claims to be a strict Christian, so I flipped the book > open to the page where the details of the different rituals were. He > read about two paragraphs and refused to give me my book back because it > was not permitted to read occult works during class. With a brief talk > with the councilor, I received it back and spent the next several weeks > bringing in books that look like they are on occult subjects. > Suffice it to say, he told the entire school that I am an atheistic devil > worshiper. Just to be mean, I told a local Episcopalian priest what > happened and he went to school with a copy of Burning Water and said > simply, “May your life be interesting.” > -Rowain Uh oh! I feel a fit coming on! Here it comes! Teehee. Hoohoohoo. Hahahahahahaha. Pwaaah Haaaahhhhh! Hoooooo Boyyyyy! Har de har!!!! Stop it! It hurts!!!! BWAH HAH HA HA HA! Connix (another newbie/lurker) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 23:01:30 -0800 From: davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gala/Pern Message-ID: Aimee Dowd wrote: >Emily the invisible said, > "Why in the world do people assume that Pern is FANTASY? buries her head under her pillow and has a screaming fit.>" > > Whoa! Sorry, I had *no* idea that this was such a contraversial subject! >Pern was just the first example of how fuzzy the boundry between fantasy and >science fiction can be sometimes that came to mind. I read the Dragonriders >Trilogy and the Harper Hall trilogy before _Dragonsdawn_ was published; when >I first read those books, I had no way to know that Pern was really a lost >colony and the dragons were genetically engineered creatures. >From the introduction to Dragonflight: (2nd paragraph) "Men discovered it and promptly colonized it. ... left the colonies to fend for themselves." (6th paragraph) "To forestall the incursions of the dreadful Threads, the Pernese, with the ingenuity of their forgotten Terran forebears, developed a highly specialized variety of a life-form indegenous to their adopted planet." (7th paragraph) "... dragons(named for the Earth legend they resembled)" >So, to me it was >fantasy, and it still *feels* like fantasy, even though I know it's really not. >The individual books _Dragonsdawn_ and _All the Weyrs of Pern_ are definately >science fiction, though. TINAF but, I've been reading the Pern books since Dragonflight came out in paper back and I'm afraid I have to point out that this same introduction has been in every edition that I 've ever seen. 2 pts to Emily. *-{)# I'd have to say that all the Pern books are scifi. And always have been. OBMisty: We've heard of Lovebonds, Lifebonds, and Soulbonds. What about negative bonds? Are there Hatebonds? I'd nominate Tylendel(or his twin?) and Evan Lesharra as a possible example of this. So what do you think gang? Are there Dark equiivalents of the bonds we know. David Tiffany, Dlog of typots ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 23:18:19 -0800 (PST) From: Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: bonds & channels/Mindspeech/Storms Message-ID: Kimmiewimmie (is that how it's done? or is there some sort of rule applied to how one mangles Kimberly's name?) said, "Can channels just close up? Misty, for example, implies that the bond of mother to child is a bond." Uh, but bonds & channels aren't the same thing, are they? A bond connects two beings, while a channel would seem to be a conduit in the mind, perhaps one that connects an "energy source" area of the mind to the "Gift area"...this doesn't quite work smoothly with the way Misty talks about channels, but oh well. Or were you talking about the channel thingie that Treesa has in common with Yfandes? It didn't seem to be something that simply went away. ****** On the subject of Mindspeech, I've been wondering--does anyone have any explanation for Savil's comment, "'You know how leaky we all are to a new, raw Gift!'" on the subject of Van picking up people's resentment (Jays specifically, I think) of his survival after Lendel's death. If newly-awakened Gifts can breeze right through anybody's shielding, can't not-so-newly-awakened Gifts do the same? If not, why not, and why hasn't this been talked about in the books? If they can...what the heck is shielding for?? ****** BOM Chantal "Tremaine's actions in no way affected the process of discovering the wave cancellation solution that solved the immediate problem of the book. However, IMO, finding that wave solution was a very tenuous plot at best. If the book had been nothing but that, I'd have gone to sleep through the beginning and middle." If the book had been nothing but that, I bet Misty could have injected some tension / suspense / Generally Interesting-Keep-You-Awake Stuff into those sections. One way to do that would have been to incorporate Natoli as a narrator--her obsession with How Things Work would have brought the reader into it a little more. And I suspect that her relationship with Karal might have been a humorous thing to see from her point of view--she might have some odd ideas indeed about how relationships could proceed with the most efficiency and logic. Hm, I wonder if Valdemar has any intellectuals along the sexual revolutionary line? "Anyway, a lot of the wave cancellation's discovery process was hints, not, as far as I could tell, active plot drivers. Most of the pivotal points in SR were not decisions. Karal did not figure out a way to get the other ministers to respect him; Solaris had to come in and gave him her public stamp of approval. Firesong did not figure out himself that his thoughts were flawed; the mindhealer (forgot his name) had to save him." Come to think of it, that's actually a major flaw. The characters are supposed to solve their own problems. I didn't think that the effects the characters had on each other (outside of the pivotal pulling-each-other-out-of-whatever-hot-water-we've-gotten-into scenes) were too clear. Characters seemed to disappear whenever they weren't narrating. I'd said, "Mebbe I shouldn't post "what she shoulda done" comments.[snip]" "It's a free country.[snip more]" Well, I enjoy critiquing stuff in the privacy of my own skull, but when I write 'em out, I find 'em rather grating and tiresome. "My objection to Bardic Voices is that it glories in the (to me) tired theme of 'The Evil Government/Religion/Whatever Oppressing the Poor, Innocent Magic-Users/Bards/You Name It.'" Ah, I knew there had to be a #5 for the Overdone Plots List... EOM ****** Yes, I *will* jump on the "defining fantasy" thread, as briefly as I can, but not just now; I have to go back to certain books...Bova-on-writing, Card-on-writing, and the Encyclopedia of SF... the Eternally Nourished Lee -97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu-Knight of the OAM- www.geocities.com/Athens/4709/-Spreader of Humor-Self Appointed User of 5-point Vocabulary Words Such As "Panegyric"-"I collected my thoughts. Someday I hope to have them all." (Vlad Taltos) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 03:34:49 -0500 From: Deniz To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: NewbieFest: Part the First Message-ID: <199701270839.DAA18459-+AT+-sirocco.CC.McGill.CA> Okay, everybody... I've been polishing, and so here it is... the new NewbieFest. All you newbies... if you have questions, odds are it's answered in here. There is recommended reading material... please do read them. Here's a quick table of contents for what's included in this NewbieFest. Actually, this is turning out to be really long, so I'm breaking it up into sections. This will show how they're divided up. Part the First: on getting the FAQ... please do it now, it's simple and easy, and just an e-mail message away. - How do I get the FAQ? Part the Second: On the titles people have and some frequently asked questions. - Gods and Goddesses, Clergy, Knights and Dames, and other Assorted Titles - Sheep - Birthdays Part the Third: On general list-iquette, addressing issues mostly on braiding and responding to list posts. - Braiding - Why are people yelling at me? or Sure-Fire Ways to Get Flamed or Really Annoying Things EVERYBODY KEEPS TELLING ME TO READ THE FAQ. WHERE IS IT? HOW DO I GET IT? There are a few different ways to get this valuable document. By mail, FTP, or the web. Jake is busily working on upgrading it, so someday it'll be even longer and more extensive... untill then, I'll keep posting this NewbieFest. I'm now quoting from the FAQ, itself. mail: send mail to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk, with a blank Subject: line, and message body: get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.1 get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.2 get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.3 get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.4 get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.5 This will send the FAQ to you, in 5 separate messages. FTP: ftp://ftp.herald.co.uk/pub/lists/lackey-archives/ HTTP: http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/lackey_faq.html There's also something really helpful called "Auntie Mel's Rules of Thumb." Unfortunately that isn't available as its own seperate e-mail message. You can get it by going to the web-site that's the home of this list, and either read it online, or better yet, save it for future reference. Actually, you can also get the digest it was reposted in most recently by e-mail. So, here are the two methods: HTTP: http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/rules_thumb.html e-mail: send a message to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk with a blank subject and a body: get listproc/mercedes-lackey 970109-1049 It should be message: > 11) [REPOST] Auntie Mel's Rules Of Thumb! New Users PLEASE read! > by Shdwflt-+AT+-aol.com Seeing as this is really easy to do, please just hit compose, switch between windows, and copy and paste the relevant lines into your message. Copy and past the address, and send off your message. While you're waiting, go on and finish up the rest of the NewbieFest. Within around 20 minutes (at the *most*) you should have all the documentation you requested. Take the time to read it and mull it over. If you pay per byte of e-mail, then visit the URL's listed above, or use the FTP process. Any way you slice the cake, you ought to read these things as they're here to help you out. love, Deniz Sarikaya, High Priestess of |"Memory believes before knowing Procrastination, Holy Custodian of|remembers." the B-Day List, Dame of the OoAM, | -- Faulkner... Light in August and Demon of Deceitful Aliases. | >dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA< >freakola-+AT+-geocities.com< >http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/9359/< ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1076 **********************************