MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1083 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Tolkien by vrondi-+AT+-juno.com (Chrys A Dean) 2) Re: Tolkien - and 'old' literature by "Ulf G. Dahlmann" 3) obscure historical note by "Hth." 4) Fionavar on the Web (fwd) by Jaguar 5) Not read: RE: Braid (Mostly about mind-to-mind and speech patterns w/fluff) by "J. A. Whalin" 6) Hatebonds / Death penalty / Chaucer / Youths in colour by davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker) 7) TINOTW & leaky new Gifts by Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> 8) Stef/lifebonds/magic by Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> 9) bonds by Faranheit-+AT+-aol.com 10) Re: Whites/Jails? by Liseth-+AT+-aol.com 11) fluffy stuff / SoI by Aimee Dowd 12) Re: Whites/Jails? by Tensen 13) Re: Gifts/Tolkien/hatebonds/death penalty by "Cindy Meeks" 14) Re: Tolkien by "Cindy Meeks" 15) Re: Gifts/Tolkien/hatebonds/death penalty by "Cindy Meeks" 16) Re: obscure historical note by Jennifer ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:25:40 est From: vrondi-+AT+-juno.com (Chrys A Dean) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tolkien Message-ID: <19970131.112542.9735.0.vrondi-+AT+-juno.com> On Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:35:02 GMT Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com writes: >But you have to consider the era in which Tolkien wrote. Have >any of you read other popular fiction from that era? Think of >_Gone with the Wind_ guys. (Wordy,unrealistic, and down right >maudlin!) Or novels by F Scott Fitzgerald and Ernest Hemingway. >They are all written in a much more stilted style than today. I >guess if you've suffered through enough centuries of writing >style(Can we say BA in English?), you get to be a little more >tolerant. Want to read something verbose and pithy? Try Ben >Franklin's Autobiography. AMEN! geez, I hated reading that last semester! Yes folks, compared with contemporaries, Tolkien was exemplary. Part of this same thing is what endears Andre Norton's writing to me. And somewhat Marion Zimmer Bradly. This vibrance that was being created in the midst of the doldrums. Needless to say I liked Tolkien. I think He did the opposite of Misty. his began with a lower age group in mind, and then the age level went up. I feel Misty's last few (SG especially) have went down in age level. -Vrondi (Bard of Amber and Marigold) Data: "I may be chasing an untamed ornothoid without cause." Dr Crusher: "A wild goose chase?" Data: "Precisely. http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/book ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:28:18 +0100 From: "Ulf G. Dahlmann" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tolkien - and 'old' literature Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970131182421.24070c84-+AT+-hrz1.hrz.th-darmstadt.de> > >On Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:35:02 GMT Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com writes: >>But you have to consider the era in which Tolkien wrote. Have >>any of you read other popular fiction from that era? Think of >>_Gone with the Wind_ guys. (Wordy,unrealistic, and down right >>maudlin!) Or novels by F Scott Fitzgerald and Ernest Hemingway. >>They are all written in a much more stilted style than today. .... > I am just doing a seminar at University on Chaucer - The Canterbury Tales (we are reading a translation into modern English, not the original text from the 14th Century, but still, 'old' style, rhymes etc.). At first I thought oh my, what kind of a horror is this going to be. Yet all those stories turned out so much fun, after the first few pages, it got very easy, and sometimes, I think this can't have been written several hundred years ago. It definitely is more funny than the National Enquirer or the Sun. If you get around to reading it, please let me know, through personal email, what you think. Ulf -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf aka Vanyel: vanyel-+AT+-compuserve.com valdemar-+AT+-geocities.com vanyel-+AT+-hrz1.hrz.th-darmstadt.de vanyelulf-+AT+-aol.com vanyel-+AT+-cutey.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/2211/ http://members.aol.com/pepverlag2/iglyo/iglyo.html http://members.aol.com/pepverlag/peptop.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:48:04 CST From: "Hth." To: Subject: obscure historical note Message-ID: <31JAN97.12745348.0083.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> Actually, Emily (where's my medal?), various factions of young men warring in the streets wearing emblematic colors reminded *me* of (no, not Los Angeles) Constantinople under Justinian. Lots of interesting stuff went on along those lines. I'd tell you more, but, well, I just woke up, and the brain is only sending out the occasional parcel-post message: "Byzantium. Bright colors. Circuses. Mornedealth...." Regarding the death penalty (which is a topic that, on the whole, I avoid like the plague, being a liberal of the bleeding-heart variety and much out of fashion these days), I offer up an interesting quote from Tolkien -- and never let it be said again that I found nothing of use in Lord of the Rings. (Frodo): "What a pity Bilbo did not stab the vile creature, when he had a chance!" (Gandalf): "Pity? It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need." "I do not feel any pity for Gollum. He deserves death." "Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give that to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." Just a thought for the day. DRAGONCON NOTE: Now that it's been a couple of months and most of you have shuffled out rooms and arrangements for DragonCon (June 26-29, http://www.dragoncon.org), would those of you who are still willing to split a hotel room with a listmember please contact me? We've had a couple of cancellations, and a minor amount of swapping roommates, and we're left with a person or two less situated than they used to be. HTH Wand-Sworn Champion to the Ladies of the Pink Wand Grand Dame of the Order of Amber and Marigold DragonCon Shepherd r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:53:59 -0500 (EST) From: Jaguar To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Fionavar on the Web (fwd) Message-ID: >From a friend o'mine... a cry for help... Love, Jaguar Leader of the Cat People J: "You're robbing a govt installation, Goddess of Large Hunter Cats Isn't that treason or something?" Chronicler of the Mage Wars K: "Your point is what?" Lady in Green -- Det. Jordan and Kermit Knight of Amber and Marigold Kung Fu: The Legend Continues Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:53:43 GMT From: Brian Pascal Well, I mentioned this a while back. Unfortunately, its still in its conception stages, mainly because I HAVE NO IMAGES!!! I have no artistic talent, so there is no chance of me creating my own. Anyone with ideas for this, please please PLEASE tell me. I figured that y'all were the biggest cache of Kay/Fionavar-lovers I was to find. Anyone with images, ideas, anything, please e-mail me. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:27:43 -0800 From: "J. A. Whalin" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: Not read: RE: Braid (Mostly about mind-to-mind and speech patterns w/fluff) Message-ID: <01BC0F78.AE66DC00-+AT+-hoco0-a12.co.tds.net> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC0F78.AE66DC00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC0F78.AE66DC00 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhkVAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AEgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADACAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAFcAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABtZXJjZWRlcy1sYWNrZXlAaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVrAFNNVFAAbWVyY2VkZXMtbGFja2V5 QGhlcmFsZC5jby51awAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAAB0AAABtZXJjZWRlcy1s YWNrZXlAaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVrAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAAB8AAAAnbWVyY2Vk ZXMtbGFja2V5QGhlcmFsZC5jby51aycAAAIBCzABAAAAIgAAAFNNVFA6TUVSQ0VERVMtTEFDS0VZ QEhFUkFMRC5DTy5VSwAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAACa0IBCIAHABcA AABSRVBPUlQuSVBNLk5vdGUuSVBOTlJOALcGAQqAAQAhAAAAQzUyMkYxOURBQjc0RDAxMUE3NkE0 NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA5QYBBIABAEwAAABOb3QgcmVhZDogUkU6IEJyYWlkIChNb3N0bHkgYWJvdXQg bWluZC10by1taW5kIGFuZCBzcGVlY2ggcGF0dGVybnMgdy9mbHVmZikAUBoBBYADAA4AAADNBwEA HQANABsAKwADAEgBASCAAwAOAAAAzQcBAB0ADQAbACoAAwBHAQEJgAEAIQAAAEMxOERBMjBEREI3 OUQwMTE5MjJDNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAOUGAQOQBgDUAgAAEwAAAAMAJgAAAAAAQAAyAGCQ+EIrDrwB QAA5ACC4AUMrDrwBAgFDAAEAAABXAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAbWVyY2VkZXMt bGFja2V5QGhlcmFsZC5jby51awBTTVRQAG1lcmNlZGVzLWxhY2tleUBoZXJhbGQuY28udWsAAB4A RAABAAAAHQAAAG1lcmNlZGVzLWxhY2tleUBoZXJhbGQuY28udWsAAAAAHgBJAAEAAABCAAAAUkU6 IEJyYWlkIChNb3N0bHkgYWJvdXQgbWluZC10by1taW5kIGFuZCBzcGVlY2ggcGF0dGVybnMgdy9m bHVmZikAAAACAUwAAQAAAFcAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABtZXJjZWRlcy1sYWNr ZXlAaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVrAFNNVFAAbWVyY2VkZXMtbGFja2V5QGhlcmFsZC5jby51awAAHgBNAAEA AAAdAAAAbWVyY2VkZXMtbGFja2V5QGhlcmFsZC5jby51awAAAABAAE4AoIS/afUIvAFAAFUAAMXl 1ykJvAEeAHAAAQAAAEIAAABSRTogQnJhaWQgKE1vc3RseSBhYm91dCBtaW5kLXRvLW1pbmQgYW5k IHNwZWVjaCBwYXR0ZXJucyB3L2ZsdWZmKQAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8CPVpv53xIsZ0qxHQp2pE RVNUAAAAAB4AdAABAAAAHwAAACdtZXJjZWRlcy1sYWNrZXlAaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVrJwAAHgAeDAEA AAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABYAAABqYXdoYWxpbkBtYWlsLmF6dXIuZnIAAAAeAAEQAQAA ABkAAABNZXNzYWdlIHdhcyBub3QgcmVhZCBieToAAAAAQAAHMGCQ+EIrDrwBQAAIMGCQ+EIrDrwB HgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAADu+ ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC0F78.AE66DC00-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:09:59 -0800 From: davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Hatebonds / Death penalty / Chaucer / Youths in colour Message-ID: yust a bunch of short tings; Hatebonds: Boy, I really kicked one off hear, huh? One thing about some of the responses I've seen regarding Falconsbreath and other similar people. While I'm sure Ma'ar mk7543 was obsessed with the Gryphons, can you truly say they returned it equally? All the positive bonds are felt by *both* sides of the equation so wouldn't the negative ones be? That's why the only real example I could come up with as a possibility was 'Lendels twin & Evan leshasrra(sp). Death penalty: I really have only two (but they're big ones) problems with the death penalty; 1) What if you get the wrong person? Kinda hard to apologize, what? 2) At least in this country, the death penalty is more likely if you're poor and can't afford a good lawyer than if you do the same crime but have tons o'dough. That's from a secular perspective, btw, from a religious one I have a different view but this is an issue in secular society. Chaucer? Ulm they're trying to rot your mind! it'll be Rabelais next! Or even Balzac! Hth mentioned street gangs in Byzantium. these started out as supporters of various drivers in the chariot racing (now there's a real he-man sport. Not like this wimpy football or hockey stuff) There were Whites, Reds, Blues & Greens that I can recall. They developed/were led into political factions (by this time it was mostly Blue & Green) and their riots almost destroyed the city. When the Emporer moved to have them suppressed they nearly succeded in deposing him. (pick-a-little-talk-a-little. Professer her kind of women shouldn't be on any committee why she advocates dirty books! Dirty books? Chaucer! Rabelais!! BALZAC!!!!!) [The Music Man, by Meridith Wilson] David Tiffany, Gjod oft typots A=8, B=3, C=D=0 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:23:18 -0800 (PST) From: Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: TINOTW & leaky new Gifts Message-ID: I said "I get the impression that it is more of a legal principle than a dearly-held belief, for most Valdemarans; ..." Em said, "I've always gotten the opposite effect. It is a dearly held belief for the individual, but said individual has a real problem with it applying to other people.[snip]It seems to be pretty common to assume that your beliefs are obviously right, and everyone else is wrong." Mm, I wouldn't say someone actually believes TINOTW unless they can apply it to others; if they apply it only to their own beliefs, they're opportunists (taking advantage of Valdemar's law for themselves, that is.) And the commonness of bigotry is why I said most Valdemarans probably wouldn't really believe it. ****leaky new Gifts** Em said, "I've always thought it was sort of like how a Deryni sheilds. They don't sheild absolutely all of their mind full strength (it would make it hard to See and Hear what is going on around one, and it looks suspicious). They kind of have layers, and the upper layer where your regular stream of conciousness is isn't very sheilded. The inner layers ARE more sheilded and private.[snip]" I think your imagery makes sense; in fact, I thought of that once, briefly, before it...uh, got switched into Stealth Memory(tm) mode (forget? me forget? no way!) But it seems to me that it doesn't quite fit how *Misty* talks about shielding. Liseth said, "[snip]So they may get a little sloppy with shields. Another word that might be used is "leaky."[snip]" I dunno. It is certainly possible, but I thoughts Mindspeakers tend to be fanatics (paranoid) about privacy. I'd think that especially around other Gifted, even ones with shields, they'd be more careful than in isolation from other Gifted. and she asked, "As another BTW, I've noticed that I get a great many Re: posts BEFORE I recieve the message they're regarding. Does anyone have any clue how this happens?" Packets pass each other on the way? wttw, ________________________________________________________________ |*~the Eternally Nourished Lee, Knight of the OAM, Spreader of | |Humor, Self-Appointed User of 5-point Vocabulary Words Such As| |"Panegyric"~* <97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu> | |_Meta Geek Code: !gc______http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4709/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:25:21 -0800 (PST) From: Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Stef/lifebonds/magic Message-ID: Esme said, "Where did Stefan come from? Was he an Outsider as well?" Stef was Valdemaran--from Haven, I think. Lessee, textevd..."He hadn't known that 'Valdemar' was the name of the kingdom where he lived." MPrice, p 36--This section, where he's Sitting Around And Thinking after Medren tells him he's going to play for Randale, doesn't have the Haven textevd, so maybe he's from a different town. ****lifebonds** Esme said, "appropos this talk of love-bonds/hate-bonds - does a life bond have to mean a love bond?" I think Stef implies the answer is no, in WFury. Esme: "I mean you could have someone without whom your life is incomplete, but that doesn't mean that they are also the person you want to lick all over and bounce around on beds/chairs/floors with." We had this talk awhile back (as a tangent on some other thread, I think) about whether lifebonds were compulsively monogamous...to no conclusion, iirc. ****Magic** Kory, after long silence, Obmistyed, " Uhm...okay. From a friend (who I got addicted to misty back in the fall; he's on Fury right now, though he only read the first Gryphon)...Why aren't there any Ultra-Adepts anymore, like Ma'ar or Urtho? My response was that magic changed, but in retrospect, doesn't SB give the impression that there was *less* magical energy back then?" In WhiteG, they mentioned that one of the effects of the magestorms had been to *reduce* the amount of energy available, making people rely on magic less. Between that and the probably large social disruption of the Wars, most of the people could have lost some knowlege of magic, so that a new Ultra-Adept (Sorcerer-Adept? isn't An'desha one?) would have to reconstruct a lot in order to achieve that rank. p.s. How d'ya like my short braids? ________________________________________________________________ |*~the Eternally Nourished Lee, Knight of the OAM, Spreader of | |Humor, Self-Appointed User of 5-point Vocabulary Words Such As| |"Panegyric"~* <97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu> | |_Meta Geek Code: !gc______http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4709/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:18:03 -0500 (EST) From: Faranheit-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: bonds Message-ID: <970131191802_-1878877369-+AT+-emout10.mail.aol.com> With all the talk about hatebonds, I figured I'd add my two-bits worth, too. I think it's entirely possible for hatebonds to exist. Now, I don't know whether they arise spontaneously or gradually, but it seems to me that the kind of mental/soul bonding Misty talks about, seems to consume people (figurtively speaking). IMO, they border onto obsessions. I think that even without a soulbonding, strong emotions can make someone feel a kind of bond to another. You see it all the time in the real world. But that makes me think of another question. If it turns out a lifebond isn't necessarly a lovebond, could it become a hatebond? See ya! Peony Dame of the OAM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:28:36 -0500 (EST) From: Liseth-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Whites/Jails? Message-ID: <970131192834_242225613-+AT+-emout18.mail.aol.com> Ahri wrote: >> Also, I've been wondering.. is there any sort of 'jail' in Valdemar/other surrounding towns? You see guards, and dungeons I suppose,<< Of course there are jails. Only Misty spells them "gaol." If anyone can tell me why she uses the British spelling, please let me know. I wouldn't expect someone from OK to spell like that. The first I ran across that spelling was is _Crime and Punishment_ last summer and I know Dostolesky (If that's spelled right, I'll be very surprised) didn't use that spelling. Does anyone know why there are two spellings to begin with? HTH wrote: >>ObMisty: Umm. Misty would make a rotten playwright. Does that count?<< Sorry, no . A good ObMisty might be something like "Why wasn't Misty a playwright?" I should come up with one of those. Where does the "w" sound in one come from? Where am I going with this? Oh, ObMisty. ::Liseth quickly ducks under her table and sends the post without an ObMisty.:: ************************************************************ Liseth (Liseth-+AT+-aol.com) Goddess of Running Away and Hiding Under Tables First Master of the Guild of Typoists ************************************************************ "Life is easier to take than you'd think; all that is necessary is to accept the impossible, do without the indispensable and bear the intolerable." -Kathleen Norris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 19:10:09 EST From: Aimee Dowd To: Mercedes Lackey Discussion List Subject: fluffy stuff / SoI Message-ID: <970131.193742.EST.AIMEDOWD-+AT+-UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> *****Pick-a-little, talk-a-little***** David Tiffany said, "Chaucer? Ulm they're trying to rot your mind! it'll be Rabelais next! Or even Balzac!" LOL! You gotta love the Music Man. He left River City the library building, but he left all the books to her! :) *****SoI***** I don't think I really need spoiler space for this message, but I'll put it in anyway. S P O I L E R S P A C E Mat said, " The ever popular, "I'm shay'a'chern. I can't control it sometimes" line. Hmph. As I said on the LofPW list: "Excuse me?" What, straight guys have some miraculous power of controlling horniness that gay guys don't?" Yeah, that line was really weird. I eventually decided that he thought Jonne was straight, was afraid he'd offended him, and was really trying to say, "Yes, I'm gay; yes, I think you're sexy, but don't worry -- I'm not going to do anything about it. I know this isn't the time or the place." But even if I'm right about that, it's still an odd thing for Vanyel to say. I was really disappointed by this whole story. I was looking forward to reading it -- yay, a story about Vanyel! and he's happy and having fun for a change! -- but I didn't like it once I read it. I felt like the Van in the story wasn't the Van I knew. It didn't feel real. D I G E S T S P A C E -Aimee, Dame of the OAM. Aimee Dowd aimedowd-+AT+-uga.cc.uga.edu *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." -Groucho Marx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:14:36 +0000 (GMT) From: Tensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Whites/Jails? Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Feb 1997 Liseth-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Ahri wrote: > >> Also, I've been wondering.. is there any sort of 'jail' in > Valdemar/other surrounding towns? You see guards, and dungeons I suppose,<< > > Of course there are jails. Only Misty spells them "gaol." If anyone can > tell me why she uses the British spelling, please let me know. I wouldn't > expect someone from OK to spell like that. The first I ran across that > spelling was is _Crime and Punishment_ last summer and I know Dostolesky (If > that's spelled right, I'll be very surprised) didn't use that spelling. > Does anyone know why there are two spellings to begin with? Its the medieval spelling, the British stayed with it, the Americans choose to spell it this way. If you look around you'll find this is the common spelling used in a lot of fantasy novels as they try to stay more towards the medieval types. I also wouldn't be surprised to find some places still using the word/spelling gaoll instead of jail. Don't expect us modern Americans to keep things right. After all we still have Sheriffs... but where is the Shire that they are Reeves over?!? Tensen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 22:51:45 -0600 From: "Cindy Meeks" To: Subject: Re: Gifts/Tolkien/hatebonds/death penalty Message-ID: <199702010459.WAA05960-+AT+-smtp.gte.net> ---------- > From: Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com > The death penalty is often a hotly debated topic here in the US. Some say it > is right, > others that we are killing the innocent along with the guilty. My sentiment > is that the > death penalty is more just than unjust. I advocate it in three cases only-- > premeditated murder, rape, and child molestation. I consider all three to > have caused irreparable damage to the victim. Its one of those grey areas > where you have to take a risk in order to save society. Or as Gwena so aptly > put it "You don't give a mad dog a chance to bite you and you don't try to > cure it. You get rid of it, before it destroys something you love." (Winds > of Change, p 154) > Interesting opinion. And good reasoning to back it up. I have always been of the opinion that child molesters and rapists should pay an extreme price for their crime. As you said... their victims will never be able to fully recover from the damage they caused. I've always advocated full castration. However, death would work! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 22:56:07 -0600 From: "Cindy Meeks" To: Subject: Re: Tolkien Message-ID: <199702010509.XAA06749-+AT+-smtp.gte.net> ---------- > From: Chrys A Dean > AMEN! geez, I hated reading that last semester! Yes folks, compared with > contemporaries, Tolkien was exemplary. Part of this same thing is what > endears Andre Norton's writing to me. And somewhat Marion Zimmer Bradly. > This vibrance that was being created in the midst of the doldrums. > Needless to say I liked Tolkien. I think He did the opposite of Misty. > his began with a lower age group in mind, and then the age level went > up. I feel Misty's last few (SG especially) have went down in age level. I personally feel that forcing students to read Tolkien is one of the worst injustices in the world. I hated Tolkien the first time I read him. I think partly because I "had" to read him and then suffer through every word and nuance being torn apart. I read his books again as an adult and loved them. Better perspective, more time. *shrug* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 23:13:48 -0600 From: "Cindy Meeks" To: Subject: Re: Gifts/Tolkien/hatebonds/death penalty Message-ID: <199702010517.XAA07372-+AT+-smtp.gte.net> Okay, I give... Any idea why I'm receiving the list twice... Every single item????? Rune ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 02:54:37 -0600 From: Jennifer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: obscure historical note Message-ID: <199702010757.BAA99892-+AT+-audumla.students.wisc.edu> Hth wrote: >Regarding the death penalty (which is a topic that, on the whole, I >avoid like the plague, being a liberal of the bleeding-heart variety and >much out of fashion these days), I offer up an interesting quote from Thank you. So'm I. It's like Ghandi said, "An eye for an eye, and the whole world is blind." > >DRAGONCON NOTE: Now that it's been a couple of months and most of you >have shuffled out rooms and arrangements for DragonCon (June 26-29, >http://www.dragoncon.org), would those of you who are still willing to >split a hotel room with a listmember please contact me? We've had a >couple of cancellations, and a minor amount of swapping roommates, and >we're left with a person or two less situated than they used to be. What is DragonCon, and where is it? I don't know anything about it.... Thanks, Jennifer Witch and Keeper of Gargoyles Mistress of Firelizards and Dragons **************************************************************** Jennifer Dorn jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu "There are more things on heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." -Hamlet **************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1083 **********************************