MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1085

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) shields/Chaucer/factionalism/TINOTW
	by "Emily L Cartier" <ecartier-+AT+-engr.udayton.edu>
  2) Re: shields/Chaucer/factionalism/TINOTW
	by Jennifer <jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu>
  3) shields/TINOTW
	by Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu>
  4) death and such
	by "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
  5) Re: bdays/death penalty/bonds
	by Azreil1997-+AT+-aol.com
  6) DragonCon
	by Jennifer <jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu>
  7) Firebird Spoiler Alert!!!
	by Minterra-+AT+-aol.com
  8) RE: death and such
	by Sunny Norwood <snorwood-+AT+-NMSU.Edu>
  9) Re: Star wars/SoI
	by Jennifer <jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu>
 10) Intro And re:
	by Aifric/ Stormsong <BRIGHID-+AT+-VM.SC.EDU>
 11) abuse/tolkin
	by Steve Mattila <prsinc-+AT+-winternet.com>
 12) shields/Firebird/Tiger Burning Bright
	by Jan <janprins-+AT+-mindspring.com>
 13) abuse
	by Jan <janprins-+AT+-mindspring.com>
 14) Re: death and such
	by John Hagen <john.hagen-+AT+-snet.net>
 15) Re: shields/Firebird/Tiger Burning Bright
	by Stormsong <BRIGHID-+AT+-VM.SC.EDU>
 16) Where Heralds fail ....... (IMO ;> )
	by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 15:38:21 -0500
From: "Emily L Cartier" <ecartier-+AT+-engr.udayton.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: shields/Chaucer/factionalism/TINOTW
Message-ID: <9702022042.AA26317-+AT+-udecc.engr.udayton.edu>

>But it seems to me that it doesn't quite fit how *Misty* talks about 
>shielding.
It fits the bit about leaky. Doesn't fit _anything_ else that I can 
think of (and bits of it seem to downright contradict stuff she has 
said). I think she didn't think through how sheilding worked before 
she wrote MPawn, and then wrote herself into a contradiction 
(possibly only a nontrivial visualization problem).

I happen to like the Deryni sheilding model. One question I always 
had was "Why don't sheilds make characters feel like they're locked 
in a little room?" and the Deryni model makes it irrelevant. 

Actually, the only esper types I remember being fanatics about 
privacy are the Comyn. Misty's chars do like their privacy, but they 
haven't built a whole culture around it (they still touch other 
people casually etc.).

Ulf said:
>I am just doing a seminar at University on Chaucer - The Canterbury 
>Tales (we are reading a translation into modern English, not the 
>original text from the 14th Century, but still, 'old' style, rhymes 
>etc.). At first I thought oh my, what kind of a horror is this going to 
>be. 
What!? Chaucer is fun. A little boring when you're discussing the 
imagry in the Nun's Priest's Tale, but fun. Especially the Miller's 
Tale (which ought to be required for all males before they graduate 
from high school...). If you don't know what I'm talking about, go 
find a copy of The Canterbury Tales and read it! 

HTH said:
>Actually, Emily (where's my medal?), various factions of young men
>warring in the streets wearing emblematic colors reminded *me* of 
>(no, not Los Angeles) Constantinople under Justinian.  Lots of 
>interesting stuff went on along those lines.  
Huh. I never got much into Byzantine history (for one thing, they 
wrote in Greek, which I don't read). Had lots and lots of Roman and 
Italian history though. Don't remember what the Guelphs and 
Ghibbelines started out as (the Renaissance was ~100+ pages of notes 
sophmore year in HS and no textbook. Still have em <g>)... I do 
remember that one group banished Dante Aligheri (sp?) cause he was 
part of the other one. 

Re: There is No One True Way
The whole reason there was freedom of religion for all faiths in 
Maryland was so that the Protestant majority wouldn't have fits at 
the Catholic rulers... At least the Quakers of PA actually believed in 
freedom of religion.
I tend to see people assume that others who don't believe the same 
things are up to no good, trying to corrupt the children etc. etc. 
I'm sure that at least one of the gamers on list has been asked about 
D&D leading to Satanism. I've been _told_ that Catholics aren't 
Christians. My graduating class in HS (almost every one of us) would 
have been in serious trouble during the Palmer raids cause we had 
"funny foreign names". Yet the people who ask gamers about being 
Satanists, and the ones who tell me I'm not a Christian, and the ones 
who would've been after me during the Palmer raids all would say that 
they believe in the Constitution of the USA... The scary thing is 
that they'd mean it.
The Holderkin seem pretty typical of how that kind of mindset acts 
(it just struck me as odd that the only group you see actively being 
bigots _in Valdemar_ is the polygamous...). It often seems like a nice 
person, til you hit one of their blindspots. Then you're a piece of 
dirt (sound like how they treated Talia, perchance?). If Valdemarens 
are much like real people, I doubt that they act much different from 
a normal human here. 

Tensen said:
>After all we still have Sheriffs...  but where is the Shire that they 
>are Reeves over?!?
<g> In the SCA!

I've been hunting thru the Rialto archives so I can write up a little 
paper on the SCAdianisms in the Deryni books for my web page. Of 
course, now I need to find some real books. I've got Shire of X and 
Barony of Y coming out my ears! <g>

Sorry about the length for those of you who hate braids. I had an 
incipient crash on my dorm computer, and sent the message over here 
_quick_ so I wouldn't lose the braid. Then I sorta forgot about it 
<g>. 

Emily the invisible
Dame of the OAM
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/7726/
ecartier-+AT+-engr.udayton.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 17:58:06 -0600
From: Jennifer <jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: shields/Chaucer/factionalism/TINOTW
Message-ID: <199702022300.RAA18210-+AT+-audumla.students.wisc.edu>

Emily  wrote:
>Re: There is No One True Way
>I tend to see people assume that others who don't believe the same 
>things are up to no good, trying to corrupt the children etc. etc. 
>I'm sure that at least one of the gamers on list has been asked about 
>D&D leading to Satanism. I've been _told_ that Catholics aren't 
>Christians. My graduating class in HS (almost every one of us) would 
>have been in serious trouble during the Palmer raids cause we had 
>"funny foreign names". Yet the people who ask gamers about being 
>Satanists, and the ones who tell me I'm not a Christian, and the ones 
>who would've been after me during the Palmer raids all would say that 
>they believe in the Constitution of the USA... The scary thing is 
>that they'd mean it.

I know exactly what you mean, only I get a double whammy. I get the whole
gamer as satanist hogwash all the time, and I usually just laugh in those
people's faces. What scares me is that these people believe it. The reason I
get double whammied is that I am not Christian. I don't believe in Satan, so
I'm not certain how that could possibly make me a satanist. I know what I
believe, and I don't expect anyone else to have to believe the same thing.
To me "no one true way" means letting people find their own personal truths
and letting them be.

>The Holderkin seem pretty typical of how that kind of mindset acts 

very true. I see it all the time, especially in people who have not been
exposed to many different beliefs. My impression of the Holderkin was that
they were pretty much isolated from the rest of the population. That would
have made it much easier for them to hold that mindset.

><g> In the SCA!

Oh no, not another SCA person!... I have so many friends in that here in
Madison, it is not even funny. I shouldn't talk since I'd probably be doing
that too if I had more time.

-Jennifer
Witch and Keeper of Gargoyles
Mistress of Firelizards and Dragons

PS Happy Candlemas/ Imbolc!
****************************************************************
     Jennifer Dorn                      jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu

"There are more things on heaven and earth, Horatio, than
are dreamt of in your philosophy." -Hamlet

****************************************************************


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 15:07:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: shields/TINOTW
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.92.970202131146.14834A-100000-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu>

(all quotes are from the invisible one)

"I happen to like the Deryni sheilding model. One question I
always had was "Why don't sheilds make characters feel like they're locked
in a little room?" and the Deryni model makes it irrelevant."

Ooh, that ~is~ a good question.  Have you read Joan Vinge's _Psion_ and
_Catspaw_?  (There's a third book out, too, but I haven't seen it
*anywhere* in paperback <whimper>.)  What Cat does to protect himself from
mindprobing isn't exactly "shielding," but at one point he comments, "It
felt like holding my breath."

"Actually, the only esper types I remember being fanatics about
privacy are the Comyn. Misty's chars do like their privacy, but they
haven't built a whole culture around it (they still touch other
people casually etc.)."

As for the touching, I thought that was because the Comyn find it
difficult to shield from someone they're in physical contact with; there
is textevd that Misty's chars can improve mind-to-mind contact through
touching, but none suggesting (iirc) that it makes shielding harder /
impossible, so a taboo on casual contact would be unnecessary (besides,
Gifts seem to crop up too randomly for Mindspeakers to develope into a
culturally homogenous elite as happened on Darkover)...I think when I
said that about Misty's chars, I was thinking mainly of stuff in BTS,
something about *Kero* being a privacy fanatic "like most Mindspeakers" or
somesuch.

"Don't remember what the Guelphs and Ghibbelines started out as"

'Twas originally a religious difference, I believe.

"I've been _told_ that Catholics aren't Christians."

What?!  <sigh> Those who do not know their own religion's history are
doomed to look like idiots.

"The Holderkin seem pretty typical of how that kind of mindset acts (it
just struck me as odd that the only group you see actively being bigots
_in Valdemar_ is the polygamous...)."

Or polygynous, to be more exact.  I wonder if there's any polyandrous
societies in Valdemar?  The Shin'a'in have polyandry & polygyny...Hm,
maybe I should have saved that thought for an obMisty...

"If Valdemarens are much like real people, I doubt that they act much
different from a normal human here."

Remember that trader whatisface, whom Talia rescued from the lynch mob in
AFlight?  "Obviously he *must* have killed the girl; he's not from around
here," kind of thinking.

________________________________________________________________
|*~the Eternally Nourished Lee, Knight of the OAM, Spreader of |
|Humor, Self-Appointed User of 5-point Vocabulary Words Such As|
|"Panegyric"~*             <97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu>                  |
|_Meta Geek Code: !gc______http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4709/



------------------------------

Date:        Sun, 02 Feb 1997 17:13:49 CST
From: "Hth." <R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: death and such
Message-ID:  <02FEB97.18608848.0043.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

Can I politely suggest that we *not* debate the ethics of the death
penalty?  Not only is it off-topic, but a lot of people have very strong
feelings one way or another, and I can guarantee you that it will end
badly.  Now, if someone wants to talk about the ethics of a particular
death sentence in Misty's books, for example, that I think is fair.
Otherwise, the conversation will drift into the realm of insults and
"why can't you just see." Already, my simple Tolkien quote has been
construed as cultural insensitivity to the people of Saudi Arabia.  See
how quickly this kind of thing gets out of hand?  I've been to this land
before.

My she'enedra has announced that she is officially giving Mercedes
Lackey One Last Chance.  She's buying Firebird, and she says if it's
crap, she's going to quit wasting her money on this woman.  So, what do
you guys think?  Am I destined to share my hearth and home with a
non-Misty reader from here on out?  How bad is Firebird?  (I'm assuming
that if it were really wonderful, there would've been a general outburst
of glee on the list, word would spread like wildfire, and we would all
have run out to buy it by now.) Does it have the requisite boring evil
cat-torturing blood-mage whose mother even hates him?  Does it have the
requisite one big flaw in the protagonist, which is handily dealt with
by the end of the book, usually with the help of his perfect friends,
thereby leaving him perfect as well?

Does it have a deep social message spelled out clearly so that even a
sub-moron can be suitable redeemed and enlightened by Misty's great
wisdom?  Does it have talking animals who get all the really clever
lines, like six-year-old children on a sitcom?  Does it have lots of
boorish, vain, insensitive, and controlling men making life difficult
for sweet and spunky young women?  Does it have gods and other
super-wise beings who never, ever interfere except when the plot calls
for it?  Does it have people who are definitely either heroes or
villains, never falling anywhere in between, never confusing us as to
which they might be, never starting out as one and turning into the
other?  (It helps if heroes wear lots of white and villains yell a lot
at the servants.)

Who's bitter?  It's my roommate, I swear.

But seriously, someone give me the dirt on Firebird, please.  Don't
forget the spoiler space.


HTH
Wand-Sworn Champion to the Ladies of the Pink Wand
Grand Dame of the Order of Amber and Marigold
DragonCon Shepherd
r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 19:26:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Azreil1997-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: bdays/death penalty/bonds
Message-ID: <970202192428_1727295958-+AT+-emout18.mail.aol.com>

  
hola, chicos, newbie here.  before i start i'd like to wish a happy birthday!
to all the feb. babies  here's to a warm cup of tea, soft blamkets and lots
of fruit flavored sheep

          *****************
Death penalty
snorwood wrote:
<<the world is not perfect, we got stupid heads and lots of people who don't 
care running around everywhere.  But in my dreams I'll kill them all and 
feel much better>>
cindy (rune?) wrote:
<<  I have always been of the opinion that child molesters and 
rapists should pay an extreme price for their crime.>>
rozanm wrote:
<<My late grandfather advocated castration but included
pre-frontal lobotomies. ...with a pre-frontal lobotomiy, you
could safely put them in chain gangs and
make them earn their keep (what with the
death penalty being expensive and all)...I think our legal system
in the US needs a bit of re-doing and
setting our priorties straight.>>
 
  As much as I'd like to agree with y'all on the most _____ punishment for
crimes of muder, rape and child molestation; my head tells me that there must
be a better option.  i, the killing of one person does not justify the
killing of another no matter how we try to justify our actions.  anger,
outrage, etc are more than justified, but killing is not.  I also don't agree
with the lobotomy option either; our brains and the ability to think and
reason are our most distinctive and personal posessions as humans, and as
such they should be protected, {lobotomies} should not be used as devices to
discourage crime.  however, i agree wholeheartedly that the US need to
re-think its priorties though.    

        ********************************

  Neg. bonds.....scary thought.  how would the bond exist, all of the bonds
that i remember reading of in misty are between lovers, so i find it hard to
conceptualize a neg bond between two people. the closest i can think of is a
passionate hate that overwhelms one or both people....but that doesn't seem
to resemble what is being talked about.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 19:25:57 -0600
From: Jennifer <jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: DragonCon
Message-ID: <199702030028.SAA21974-+AT+-audumla.students.wisc.edu>

Sorry to bug you guys again, but what is DragonCon? Can someone please clue
me in (off list even), so I don't feel like a complete idiot?
Thanks.

Jennifer


"If I have seen farther than most it is because I have
stood on the shoulders of giants."
	-Sir Isaac Newton

"Old man don't lay so still, you're not yet young, there's
time to teach point to point-point observation. 
Children carry reservations
Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold."
	-REM, "King of Birds"

jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 19:39:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Minterra-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Firebird Spoiler Alert!!!
Message-ID: <970202193932_948835520-+AT+-emout18.mail.aol.com>


Firebird semi-spoiler!!!!!!!!



All the quotes from our lovely Hth.

>> How bad is Firebird? 

I liked FB. IMO, the plot had a nice pace to it, even with some surprises in
it. Granted, they weren't all that huge, but they ~were~ good. 

>> Does it have the requisite boring evil cat-torturing blood-mage whose
mother even hates him? <<

  Sort of. Actually, this mage is pretty smart (other than not looking past
Ilya's fool act when he's first caught), and doesn't seem to be blood-thirsty
at all. In fact, all he does is stay in his castle and steal beautiful women.
And he doesn't even rape/kill/mame them, except to discard those that get old
or less beautiful. Of course, there's the changing people into misshapen
beasts, but what do you expect? Whenever any 'rescuers of fair captives' try
to do so, he simply does away with them. No intringing on the neighbors, no
'...Tomorrow the world!'
   He's a down-to-earth sort of guy. Sure, he can get pissed off, but so can
we all when we're tired, eh?

>> Does it have the requisite one big flaw in the protagonist, which is
handily dealt with by the end of the book, usually with the help of his
perfect friends,
 thereby leaving him perfect as well? <<

   Hm. Let's see... He's the son of a tsar (or whatever his father was
calling himself), so the dallying with the servant girls is to be expected.
He isn't overly sexist, mostly because of his upbringing with the that dairy
mistress (forget her name), and the priest and spirit-man (forget them, too
[hey, what do you expect, it's the weekend]). He's a carver, that much we get
from the first page, so he's got the usual sharper than normal knife. He's
smarter than his brothers (as Misty would have it, by a ~lot~), but that's
also because of his upbringing. The eldest having nothing but sex, greed, and
power on their mind, with that small pinch of intelligence of their due. They
usually take out their frustrations/idiocy/'plafulness' out on Ilya, so he's
been toughened up some. They're mostly responsible for Ilya not being able to
return to his home, but I wouldn't call it 'banishing,' least of all by his
father. A good amount of him not returning is of his own choice. Hm... can't
really think of any flaws he has other than having hormones.
 
>> Does it have a deep social message spelled out clearly so that even a
sub-moron can be suitable redeemed and enlightened by Misty's great wisdom?
<<

   Nope, other than the 'don't judge a book by its cover and wrapping' bit.

>> Does it have talking animals who get all the really clever lines, like
six-year-old children on a sitcom? <<

   Well, the fox does have a few good lines, but hey, she's supposed to be
clever. The other animals just carry on normal conversations (well, as they
would see it [no, no dribble])

>> Does it have lots of boorish, vain, insensitive, and controlling men
making life difficult for sweet and spunky young women? <<

   The elder brothers and father to the servant girls, yes, mostly. But she
doesn't go into that that much, other than comparing them to Ilya and one of
his brothers whose 'techniques' are different. And there's only really one
time where this is even touched upon.

>> Does it have gods and other super-wise beings who never, ever interfere
except when the plot calls for it? <<

   No. There are two scenes where spirits are used. One, when Ilya talks with
the basilisk in the bathing house (minor chat, not that consequential). The
other is when his brothers beat him to a half-living pulp and leave him in
the family crypt, where he's 'visited' by his ancestors. Again, not that
consequential. The beating itself becomes more important to the plot than the
visits, giving him an excuse to become 'the family fool,' a defense against
his brothers.

>> Does it have people who are definitely either heroes or villains, never
falling anywhere in between, never confusing us as to which they might be,
never starting out as one and turning into the other? <<

   Mmm, the Firebird isn't judgeable at first. Also, there's a really cute
goblin (or whatever they were) character in the mages place. Also, one of
Ilya's elder brothers is kinda borderline, as we see him from both sides.
Other than that, they're pretty judgeable.

>> (It helps if heroes wear lots of white and villains yell a lot at the
servants.) <<

   Not that much color difference in the clothing until Ilya becomes 'the
Fool,' full with blaring costume and hat. And there's not that much yelling
at the servants until they do something wrong. The mage only yells maybe once
or twice, with subtle hinting the rest.

   On the whole, I liked the book. Ilya  is infatuated with Firebird at
first, but it isn't she that he tries to rescue. IIRC, he doesn't even know
about the girls until he sees them for himself. The weakest part of the book,
though, is Ilya's disguise while in the castle. I mean, come on, I don't
think those ogres were that stupid. Someone would have noticed. As would they
have his hiding place, and his disappearance from existence. Oh, which
reminds me, corn wasn't in Russia at the time of the book, was it?
   Aside from these, it's well presented. We even get the 'club to the back
of the head' line. I've bought it, and am glad to have done so. If not buying
it, at the ~least~, have her read it one time. It'll definately be an
enjoyable.

Bright be thy day,
Rhodri



EOM



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:47:37 -0700
From: Sunny Norwood <snorwood-+AT+-NMSU.Edu>
To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: RE: death and such
Message-ID: <01BC1131.2E300560-+AT+-analog-ts1-3.NMSU.Edu>

----------
From: 	Hth.[SMTP:R618-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU]
Sent: 	Sunday, February 02, 1997 16:36 PM
To: 	snorwood-+AT+-NMSU.Edu
Subject: 	death and such

Can I politely suggest that we *not* debate the ethics of the death
penalty? . . .Already, my simple Tolkien quote has been
construed as cultural insensitivity to the people of Saudi Arabia.  See
how quickly this kind of thing gets out of hand?  I've been to this land
before.

Just when you thought it was safe. . .

My she'enedra has announced that she is officially giving Mercedes
Lackey One Last Chance.  She's buying Firebird, and she says if it's
crap, she's going to quit wasting her money on this woman.

What books of hers has she read?  What books does she like?  Some of my 
friends don't like her books because they say it takes too long to "get 
into" them and some are stuck to romance novels.

Who's bitter?  It's my roommate, I swear.

You want to switch roommates?

-Sunny :#)
http://web.nsmu.edu/~snorwood

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end


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 19:50:10 -0600
From: Jennifer <jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Star wars/SoI
Message-ID: <199702030052.SAA24458-+AT+-audumla.students.wisc.edu>

In regard to the new Star Wars:

At 05:14 AM 2/2/97 GMT, Jan wrote:

>
>Yes! Yes! Yes! Its totally awesome. Still just as good as the first time I
>saw it. Loved wwhat they did to the town.  Thought the Jabba the Hut scene a
>bit contrived, tho. And I still cry when Obewan Kenobe dies. But, what
>bloopers did they edit out?  I saw one they left in.

I kind of liked the Jabba the Hut scene (even if he did bear a striking
resemblence to Marlon Brando). It was a lot of fun. It's definately a movie
that must be seen on the big screen. I can't wait for the other two to come out.

Jennifer
Witch and Keeper of Gargoyles
Mistress of firelizards and dragons
****************************************************************
     Jennifer Dorn                      jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu

"There are more things on heaven and earth, Horatio, than
are dreamt of in your philosophy." -Hamlet

****************************************************************


------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 02 Feb 97 20:06:46 EST
From: Aifric/ Stormsong <BRIGHID-+AT+-VM.SC.EDU>
To: Mercedes-Lackey-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK
Subject: Intro And re:
Message-ID: <199702030122.BAA17871-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>

Ok.. well hope no one object to me jumping in here.(* hoping Sincerely not to p
ut both feet firmly in Mouth*) Well about Dragon Con... it is a 4 day Conventio
n of Science Fiction, Fantasy, Gaming, and Fandom in general.. There is a track
=Selection of meetings, parties, discussions) on Mercedes ..(*Crosses fingers a
nd really hopes she can go this year*)..

Intro: Well I have been reading Mercedes' books for about 3 years(geee almost e
xactly) ever since I bought(OathBound, OathBreakers) at a Charity auction at a
convention here in Columbia.. Favorite books:OathBound, OathBreakers and The Bl
ack Gryphon..and the wind series.. for info on Tayledras..

Mercedes writing: well, I don't know much about Firebird, but if Silver Gryphon
is any indication.. u may be living with a non-mercedes reader... I will say th
is a friend told me about The Serrated Edge Books and they are wonderful...
so we can all hope.. (* I know I do*) that Silver Gryphin was a fluke... (*hopi
ng she hasn't ticked anyone off at her*)
Wind to thy wings, Wingsibs-Stormsong

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:15:21 -0800
From: Steve Mattila <prsinc-+AT+-winternet.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: abuse/tolkin
Message-ID: <32F56659.81A-+AT+-winternet.com>

I want to step back to Myste's Wheels of Fire novel.  I just got through 
reading it and I don't understand something.  In the US, if there is 
reason to suspect that some high ranking offical may be in danger, we 
step in to protect that person.  However, if a child is in danger, 
they're luckey if two hours are spent on their case.  The schools are 
told to keep situations of abuse quiet.  What ever happened to protecting 
the children??  It seems to me that very few people care.
On the subject of Tolkin(I'm the one who asked the question), I 
purcahased a copy of the Hobbit today, however I need to read In Our Time 
by Hemmingway before I can read anything else.
Does anyone know where I can get a copy of Sword and S. # one???
		-Rowain

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 22:38:37 -0500
From: Jan <janprins-+AT+-mindspring.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: shields/Firebird/Tiger Burning Bright
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970203033837.006b7a18-+AT+-pop.mindspring.com>

Hey, Y'all!

Emily wrote
>I happen to like the Deryni sheilding model. One question I
>always had was "Why don't sheilds make characters feel like they're locked
>in a little room?" and the Deryni model makes it irrelevant.

Everybody's talking about the "Deryni Model".  I hate to sound dumb , but
What is it?  Where's it from?  Why haven't I read the book?  I think that
sheilding would be sort of like what we all do to every-day sounds when
we're concentrating on something-- we automaticly tune them out.  they're
still there if we think about it, but usually we don't.  Only with
shielding, that "tuning out needs to be learned.  Complete shielding seems
to take a lot of effort (like Jaysen in MPawn when he didn't want Van to get
past his shielding.)  Also, complete shielding would be like shutting off
one of your senses--- like walking around with you eyes shut.

And Lee answered
>Ooh, that ~is~ a good question.  Have you read Joan Vinge's _Psion_ and
>_Catspaw_?  (There's a third book out, too, but I haven't seen it
>*anywhere* in paperback <whimper>.)  What Cat does to protect himself from
>mindprobing isn't exactly "shielding," but at one point he comments, "It
>felt like holding my breath."

The third book is Dreamfall, and I've been looking everywhere for it , too.
It *ought* to be out there somewhere----IIRC the publish date was 1995.  I
know Cat thought of his gift as another sense, always there, always
peripherally aware of the othe minds around him.  Great books, BTW. I highly
recommend them.  True Sci-fi, not fantasy, tho--be warned<g>.  Contains a
good scientfic explanation of mind-gifts.

>But seriously, someone give me the dirt on Firebird, please.
I was about to, Hth, but then I noticed Rhodri already did.  I like it too,
it was a good story;  it reminded me of a fairy tale---maybe 'cause its
based oon a Russian folktale?

You know, Ive never seen seen anyone mention Tiger Burning Bright, the
Collaberation from MZB, Misty, and A. Norton.  I just got through reading
it--its one of the better books Ive read lately.  Has anyone else read it?
Or has it already been discussed before I joined the list?

Well.  I''m thinking I want to change my sig.  I'm thinking maybe Summerstar
or maybe Silverstar.  No, Summerstar.  I *really* like summer. Esp. summer
nights.:)   

Summerstar(formerly Jayenna)


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 23:01:42 -0500
From: Jan <janprins-+AT+-mindspring.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: abuse
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970203040142.006b1990-+AT+-pop.mindspring.com>

Im really sorry to send two messages one right after the other, but I just
now got this ffrom Rowain
>The schools are 
>told to keep situations of abuse quiet.  What ever happened to protecting 
>the children??  It seems to me that very few people care.

Not true, not true, NOT TRUE!  Where do you live anyway.  Im a Kindergarten
teacher and we're *required* to report suspected abuse.  We can get in *big
trouble* if we don't. And we DO  CARE.  I work at an inner city school and
you would not believe the home situations of some of the children in my
class.  What five year olds have to deal with on a daily basis. I have
reported some of the home situations to our school social worker, and she
has gone in and worked with those people to make things better.  Sometimes
its so hard to prove that there's nothing you can do except be an oasis for
them during the day.

Summerstar(formerly Jayenna),  


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 23:30:53 -0400
From: John Hagen <john.hagen-+AT+-snet.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: death and such
Message-ID: <32F55BEA.1009-+AT+-snet.net>

The death penalty in Valdemar is used against thieves.  If I remember
rightly, one of Skif's students in weapons training (while he and Talia
were trying to arrange an assignation) was a thief who was Chosen on his
way to the scaffold, presumably to be hanged.

S

P

O

I

L

E

R



S

P

A

C

E

Okay.  Firebird does not have a spunky young woman in it.  It does have
a spoiled rotten brat of a female in it.  The hero is a clever young man
whose big brothers and little brothers try to beat the s-+AT+-#! out of him
on a semi-regular basis.  This makes it necessary for him to hide out
under the guise of foolishness in order to live.  How he learns to deal
with the Firebird and her gifts is an integral part of the story.  His
truly viscious and stupid brother gets exactly what he and she
deserves.  I think that it is very good.

Lady Sara, LIG and Dryad Extraordinaire

------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 03 Feb 97 07:45:04 EST
From: Stormsong <BRIGHID-+AT+-VM.SC.EDU>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-HERALD.CO.UK
Subject: Re: shields/Firebird/Tiger Burning Bright
Message-ID: <199702031303.NAA00594-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>

Rowain>> If I remember right Wheels of fire is part of Serrated Edge series.. Y
eah, its true what u say about local agencies leaving children to fend for them
selves.... around here it appears doubly true... cause if the agency steps in a
nd they can't get any proof or if they have proof.. but they end up putting the
 child back with the parents(due to court order or dismissal of charges) and th
e child is injured again or killed then they are in the hotseat either way. ..
not trying to excuse just observe.....

Shielding>> The Deryni model is where (from what I have read feel free to corre
ct me) u have the weakest shell on the outside and the closer to the true inner
 self u get the harder and more protective the shields get.. I agree that walki
ng around with your best shields up all the time would be like walking around i
nside a brick barricade... personally I kinda like the advice given to Talia in
 Healer's Dilema "'cause only will I counsel u that if u build a shell of
armor close about u then u close yourself in hell... " sorry love the music...

Tiger Burning Bright>>>
I haven't read tiger burning bright(* looks at stack of books for latin America

n history*) have to get through those first....
Lady light thy Road,
 Stormsong..

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 97 15:33:55 +0100
From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Where Heralds fail ....... (IMO ;> )
Message-ID: <9702031433.AA08233-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl>

hola,

> I asked:"Where did Stefan come from? Was he an Outsider as well?"
and the ENLee replied:
> Stef was Valdemaran--from Haven, I think.  Lessee, textevd..."He hadn't
> known that 'Valdemar' was the name of the kingdom where he lived." 

Okay, so from what we glean, he was living a pretty rotten little life - 
no parents on the scene, raising money to fund his keeper's drug addiction,
no money 'cept what he can raise. I presume he'd have been skinny, snotty-
nosed, always cold ('cept when too hot), and malnourished. He may
have ended up a thief or worse, and possibly abused drugs like whatever
her name was. Get the picture - a neglected and abused child. What do the
Heralds do for him, and all the other battered little souls like him? 
Precious little it seems to me.

I mentioned in an earlier mail that Heralds don't seem to have any urban 
responsibilities, but here are these great moral crusaders, able to judge 
and condemn, arbitrate and decide in major disputes, looked up to as something 
pure and uncorruptable; and there's a heaving great mass of the population that 
they are totally failing. They need a copy of the UNICEF Convention on the 
Rights of the Child!


I always thought McCaffery's drudges led pretty rotten lives - it's a good
term though - they did drudge (can one drudge - I drudge, we drudged, they
have drudged, or is one a drudge???)

****************************************
I'm re-reading GGKay's Song for Arbonne at the moment - only read it the
once before. It is a lovely book - I think it's going to grow on me like
Tigana. I have also finally found books 2 and 3 of the Finovar Tapestry - so
don't espect much in the way of Obmisties out of me - I'm saturating on
Mhr. Kay! Incidentally, what was his connection to Tolkein - I know there
was one - was he involved with the Silmarillion (or howeve you spell it)?

That'll do,

ciao ciao,
Esmeralda



------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1085
**********************************