MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1087 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Lu: RE: death penalty by "J. A. Whalin" 2) Things from digest 1078... I'm a few days behind! by MOONSHADOW SILVEREYES 3) re: compassion in ML's work / GGK (just a bit) / a question ... by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 4) J. A. Whalin's gibberish by "Vrondi" 5) thanks/Mat's sig by "Vrondi" 6) Re: trekfluff (or should that be tribbles?) by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 7) Vegetables\SoI\ by Jaguar 8) re: compassion in ML's work / GGK (just a bit) / a question ... by Lydia Hales 9) Sorry Ulf by Lydia Hales 10) re: compassion in ML's work / GGK (just a bit) / a question ... by Jennifer 11) blessing/vegetables/SB & Owlflight by Mat the Cat in Green 12) where Heralds fail/telepathy/sf by Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> 13) sf in valdemar by Aimee Dowd 14) deryni/child abuse/religion/books, I found real books! by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 15) sf - AKon - Urban Fantasy Fans Wanted! by Claris/Clarissa Smith 16) Not me!!! by Steve Mattila 17) A cry for help by Steve Mattila 18) Re: A cry for help by Lady Ambyrle 19) No misty, apoligies,why, & zombie time. by Mark Severson 20) telepath morality/origin of "Misty" by Mat the Cat in Green ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 23:20:22 +0100 From: "J. A. Whalin" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: Lu: RE: death penalty Message-ID: <01BC1294.676D3000-+AT+-milou.azur.fr> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC1294.677DF8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC1294.677DF8E0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhoLAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AEgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADACAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAFcAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABtZXJjZWRlcy1sYWNrZXlAaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVrAFNNVFAAbWVyY2VkZXMtbGFja2V5 QGhlcmFsZC5jby51awAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAAB0AAABtZXJjZWRlcy1s YWNrZXlAaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVrAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAAB8AAAAnbWVyY2Vk ZXMtbGFja2V5QGhlcmFsZC5jby51aycAAAIBCzABAAAAIgAAAFNNVFA6TUVSQ0VERVMtTEFDS0VZ QEhFUkFMRC5DTy5VSwAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAACa0IBCIAHACAA AABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuUmVhZCBSZWNlaXB0AAMLAQqAAQAhAAAANjYzRUZFMTkxRTdD RDAxMUE3NkE0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA8AYBBIABABYAAABMdTogUkU6IGRlYXRoIHBlbmFsdHkALwcB BYADAA4AAADNBwIAAgAXABQAFgAAABkBASCAAwAOAAAAzQcCAAIAFwAUABYAAAAZAQEJgAEAIQAA ADBGMDk4NTk5NTE3REQwMTE4RUM0NDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAMsGAQOQBgB4AgAAEwAAAAMAJgAAAAAA QAAyAIDk60dXEbwBQAA5AEB2DUhXEbwBAgFDAAEAAABXAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIA AAAAbWVyY2VkZXMtbGFja2V5QGhlcmFsZC5jby51awBTTVRQAG1lcmNlZGVzLWxhY2tleUBoZXJh bGQuY28udWsAAB4ARAABAAAAHQAAAG1lcmNlZGVzLWxhY2tleUBoZXJhbGQuY28udWsAAAAAHgBJ AAEAAAASAAAAUkU6IGRlYXRoIHBlbmFsdHkAAAACAUwAAQAAAFcAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABtZXJjZWRlcy1sYWNrZXlAaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVrAFNNVFAAbWVyY2VkZXMtbGFja2V5 QGhlcmFsZC5jby51awAAHgBNAAEAAAAdAAAAbWVyY2VkZXMtbGFja2V5QGhlcmFsZC5jby51awAA AABAAE4AoFutA2cQvAFAAFUAAHm2BzERvAEeAHAAAQAAABIAAABSRTogZGVhdGggcGVuYWx0eQAA AAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8EGcDrRn+Pmd8HhHQp2pERVNUAAAAAB4AdAABAAAAHwAAACdtZXJjZWRl cy1sYWNrZXlAaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVrJwAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABYAAABq YXdoYWxpbkBtYWlsLmF6dXIuZnIAAAAeAAEQAQAAABkAAABMZSBtZXNzYWdlIGEg6XTpIGx1IGxl oDoAAAAAQAAHMMC84kdXEbwBQAAIMMC84kdXEbwBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAATHU6IAAAAABVmw== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC1294.677DF8E0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 07:33:26 -0600 (CST) From: MOONSHADOW SILVEREYES To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Things from digest 1078... I'm a few days behind! Message-ID: <01IF0DF683SU0052V9-+AT+-TITAN.SFASU.EDU> Mainly regarding the dark/negative bonds reciprocal to the love/life/soul bonds: What comes immediately to mind is the bond formed between a woman (or, rarely, a man) and her abusive father that often leaks (over or is actually formed by another relative) onto her abusive husband. They have no doubts that the father/relative/husband/lover LOVE them, but they accept the abuse without complaint often till death at the f/r/h/l's hands. kat _______ _____________ ''/\/ / \/ // / / \ \====================--------------> ``\ \ \\ \ \ /\ \ / ----- ------------ --- _ / \ _-, _ /| \-``- / __-` } | \ / \ `_ "o. |o } _ \ ; \_ ; _______ _____________ ``_ __\ ,,/\/ / \/ // / / \ - \.// =\\\\\\\===========================- / `-____ ` ,,/ \ \\ \ \ \/ \ / / ----- ------------ --- - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 97 15:41:36 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: re: compassion in ML's work / GGK (just a bit) / a question ... Message-ID: <9702041441.AA09425-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> hi, Chantal wrote: > On 3-FEB-1997 09:37:59.4 mercedes-lackey said to AERDEN (actually it was me, to the list, but hey, I'm not complaining ......) >> Get the picture - a neglected and abused child. What do the Heralds do >> for him, and all the other battered little souls like him? >> Precious little it seems to me. > Ohhhhh...How do I respond to this without seeming like a callous, cold > b*tch? Okay, I'll just say it. I don't consider a Herald's function > to be primarily one of Child Protective Services worker. To me, Heralds > have always seemed to be concerned first and foremost with the defense > and foreign/domestic maintenance of the kingdom as a whole. Fine, I wasn't particularly saying that they should, but the more I think about Vlademar, the larger my impression of a lack of warmth and compassion in ML's books gets. Children seem to be somewhat absent, I can recall no scenes of contented normal family life (even if it usually is the precursor to total tragedy in most novels!). I know this is a mediaeval society, and not perfect, but it seems a fairly comfortable place - no mention of food shortages, famine, drought, plagues. No brutal class system keeping peasants in their place, no corrupt government or church bleeding the ordinary folk dry, no obvious opression of minorities or women, - so where's the awareness of the rights of the weak that should exist in a society like this. And, another thought strikes, if there *is* grinding poverty and desparation, why isn't there social unrest? Where are the socialists, the opponents to monarchy, the tricoteuse? Hey, a good book - Herald unable to stand the differences between the haves and the have-nots, quits the Collegium to start a Marxist revolution, supported by his equally left wing Companion ........ nah, ML'd never buy it. +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+ I *know* GGK is not a part of a Lackey list, but lots of us love his work, so I'm adding to Mat's response to Vrondi: IIRC, Kay has written only 6 books: and add: > _The Fionavar Tapestry_ - so far good - I don't usually like stories > _The Summer Tree_ where real world people get transported into > _The Wandering Fire_ a fantasy world - here I didn't mind, and I > _The Darkest Road_ am anxious to start book 2. >_Tigana_ The most wonderful, tragic, desolate, hope filled book I have ever read, and read, and .. >_A Song for Arbonne_ Good - taking a second reading well, I'm probably enjoying it more second time round (well I know what happens, so can slow down!) >_The Lions of Al-Rassan_ Also good - only read it the once, and will definitely read it again. He does write similar books, but even if his characterisation becomes familiar, it's so wonderful, you don't mind. He also goes for great smack in the guts emotions, so watch out. As I have said here before, Tigana reduces me to such a state I can barely read! +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+ Question time. Who the devil says "Live long and prosper"? For some reason it's just lurched to the front of my brain - oh and if anyone remembers a wonderful record from years back (I'm probably after the 30 somethings here) based on Star Treck, that had lots of verses, including "There's Klingons on the starboard bow", and "It's life Jim, but not as we know it"? Well if you do, who was it by, and what were the other verses?? dooie, Esmeralda ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:07:04 +0000 From: "Vrondi" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: J. A. Whalin's gibberish Message-ID: <199702041613.LAA07039-+AT+-student1.concord.wvnet.edu> Umm, J.A. Whalin needs to be checking sttings on their mailer. The following is just a small sample of how their last post came across. > From: "J. A. Whalin" > ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC1294.677DF8E0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC1294.677DF8E0 > Content-Type: application/ms-tnef > Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > eJ8+IhoLAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG > AEgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADACAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAFcAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd > AQ9UAgAAAABtZXJjZWRlcy1sYWNrZXlAaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVrAFNNVFAAbWVyY2VkZXMtbGFja2V5 -Vrondi (Bard of Amber and Marigold) "Here he comes across the lake. He's comin' for his birthday cake. Sing 'Happy Birthday, Dragon Don,' And watch him blow the candles. . . on." -Shel Silverstein(Falling Up) http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/book ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:18:12 +0000 From: "Vrondi" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: thanks/Mat's sig Message-ID: <199702041624.LAA07153-+AT+-student1.concord.wvnet.edu> thanks to Mat the Cat and Esmerelda Elvensbane for GGK info. ____________________________________________________________ Mat! hahaha! cool choice for a sig. that's the best album! "We'll sing our songs, of places that are far away, kings and castles, heroes brave and bold..." ____________________________________________________________ -Vrondi (Bard of Amber and Marigold) Data: "I may be chasing an untamed ornothoid without cause." Dr Crusher: "A wild goose chase?" Data: "Precisely. http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/book ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:29:08 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: trekfluff (or should that be tribbles?) Message-ID: <9702041629.AA10129-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> Esmeralda wrote > Question time. Who the devil says "Live long and prosper"? For some reason it's > just lurched to the front of my brain non-Spock Vulcans, (said to or by). .- oh and if anyone remembers a wonderful > record from years back (I'm probably after the 30 somethings here) based on > Star Treck, that had lots of verses, including "There's Klingons on the > starboard bow", and "It's life Jim, but not as we know it"? Well if you do, > who was it by, and what were the other verses?? Can't remember who, but other highlights included "We come in peace - shoot to kill!" and "It's worse than that, he's dead Jim", typically with several repeats of the the end bits of each phrase. Obmisty: not a lot - at least we haven't seen a job lot of My Little Pony companions running round singing "It's worse than that we've Chosen him" in smurf like voices... [shudder]... -- _|_ Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) / | Hemel Hempstead, UK jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \_|_ www.selune.demon.co.uk (soon) \__/ ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:49:05 -0500 (EST) From: Jaguar To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Vegetables\SoI\ Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Mat the Cat in Green wrote: > > > On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Steve Mattila wrote: > > >hmmmmm... let's see here.... > > > ARGH! I can't think of anything. Do you think that Sayvil was > > > really Van's Aunt Savil? :) (Couldn't resist). Now I had better > > > go hide in my practice room before I get pelted with rotten > > > vegetables by list members. > > > > Rotten vegetables? now why would we do that? (picks up some nice > > green _hard_ vegetables) > > "Hmmm. How would one classify *these*?" As he speaks, two large, white > coconuts appear, and hover just above and behind Mat's shoulders. > They are rotating, as if seeking something...or someone out........ > BAD BAD BAD MAT! Gee, what a way to delurk. I can't find SoI to save my life. I'm in the DC/VA/MD area, does anyone around me know if it's out here? I talked to Catherine, and the bookstores she's been to don't have it either. Something I thought of while reading SB.... S P O I L E R S T O R M B R E A K ... ing. That should really be enough. If Owlflight really is about a male Tayledras.. is there any reason to think that it might not be Florian? Her books from Arrows on have been almost sequential (barring V&H), and I was thinking that the Florian death scene might be a setup for a young, skinny Tayledras with hair flopping over into his eyes.. who said he had to be a Herald? Just because he was a Companion in one life.. and the "Children of my other self" in V&H.. okay, so it's rather lame, but it was something I was thinking about.. E N D S P O I L E R S P A C E ... Hey! Wait a minute! Homing coconuts aren't vegetables! Love, Jaguar Leader of the Cat People J: "You're robbing a govt installation, Goddess of Large Hunter Cats Isn't that treason or something?" Chronicler of the Mage Wars K: "Your point is what?" Lady in Green -- Det. Jordan and Kermit Knight of Amber and Marigold Kung Fu: The Legend Continues ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 08:55:39 -0800 (PST) From: Lydia Hales To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: re: compassion in ML's work / GGK (just a bit) / a question ... Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 1997 dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl wrote: > +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+ > > Question time. Who the devil says "Live long and prosper"? For some reason it's > just lurched to the front of my brain - oh and if anyone remembers a wonderful > record from years back (I'm probably after the 30 somethings here) based on > Star Treck, that had lots of verses, including "There's Klingons on the > starboard bow", and "It's life Jim, but not as we know it"? Well if you do, > who was it by, and what were the other verses?? > > dooie, > Esmeralda > >> Spock says "Live Long and Prosper." >> The song is _Star Trekking_. I have a recording of it on the 20th Anniversary of Dr. Demento. ( I'm not sure who the recording artist is; I'll have to check. THe rest of the verses: Chrous: Star trekking across the universe. On the Starship Enterprise under Capt. Kirk. Star Trekking across the universe. Boldly going forward, we can't find reverse. verse 1: (Uhura) THere's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow. There's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, Jim. Chorus. Verse 2. (Spock) It's life, Jim, but not as we know, not as we know it, not as we know it. It's life, Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it, Capt. Chorus. Verse 3. (McCoy) It's worse than that, he's dead Jim, dead Jim, dead Jim. It's worse than that; he's dead, Jim, dead Jim, dead. Chorus. verse 4. (Jim) We come in peace; shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill. We come in peace; shoot to kill, shoot to kill, men. chorus. verse 5. (Scotty) Ye canna change the laws of physics, laws of physics, laws of physics. Ye canna change the laws of physics, laws of physics, Capt. chorus. Each verse is repeated, getting faster and faster. So, it would look like this. Chorus verse 1 chorus verse 2, and verse 1 chorus verse 3, 2, and 1 etc. At the end there are little ad libs, such as "Warp 9, Mr. Scott." " She canna take much more." and, of course, "Beam me up, Scotty." BTW, I am an under 30 Trek fan. Lady Lydia Priestess of Brass Instruments ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:02:50 -0800 (PST) From: Lydia Hales To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Sorry Ulf Message-ID: Ulf, I seem to of misunderstood your post. I thought that you were burning me for "going after a cheap way of getting attention," when i was just joking around. I suppose this is a disadvatage of communicating by computer; the verbal part of your messsage could be read two ways, and I thought it was a burn. The lack of ability to see body language cues, such as smiling, is a hadicap. Anyway, sorry I jumped on you. Peace, Lady Lydia (definitely chagrined, and struggling to get her foot out of her mouth) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:50:36 -0600 From: Jennifer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: re: compassion in ML's work / GGK (just a bit) / a question ... Message-ID: <199702041753.LAA86614-+AT+-audumla.students.wisc.edu> Esmeralda wrote: >>Fine, I wasn't particularly saying that they should, but the more I think >about Vlademar, the larger my impression of a lack of warmth and >compassion in ML's books gets. Children seem to be somewhat absent, I >can recall no scenes of contented normal family life (even if it usually is >the precursor to total tragedy in most novels!). > I just think the subject doesn't often come up. Contented normal family life, hmmm The only examples that I can think of are Randale Shavri and Jisa in LHM (even if Jisa wasn't really Randi's, they still seemed to compose a happy family) Also Talia and Dirk seem to have a couple of happy children (I don't have my books with me but I know it's in Mage Winds somewhere), Natoli (Mage Storms) seems to have a good relationship with her father, and Skif mentions inMW somewhere that (before they'd been killed leaving him with psychological scars), he'd been living with a contented farming family. >or women, - so where's the awareness of the rights of the weak that should >exist in a society like this. And, another thought strikes, if there *is* I think the awareness is there, but it isn't the focus of her plots. Do you walk around all day talking about nothing but the rights of the weak? Neither do they. The fact is that heralds do protect those rights, but the particular heralds that Misty tends to focus on are usually in such high positions that they are busy with other things. They leave it to the heralds who don't have to do diplomatic missions, or learn magework, or learn how to govern a kingdom. >Question time. Who the devil says "Live long and prosper"? For some reason it's Mr. Spock >just lurched to the front of my brain - oh and if anyone remembers a wonderful >record from years back (I'm probably after the 30 somethings here) based on >Star Treck, that had lots of verses, including "There's Klingons on the >starboard bow", and "It's life Jim, but not as we know it"? Well if you do, >who was it by, and what were the other verses?? It's called Star Trekkin' and you can find it on the Dr, Demento 20th anniversary collection. I'll send you the lyrics off list Jennifer Witch and Keeper of Gargoyles Mistress of firelizards and Dragons **************************************************************** Jennifer Dorn jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu "There are more things on heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." -Hamlet **************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:19:09 -0500 (EST) From: Mat the Cat in Green To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: blessing/vegetables/SB & Owlflight Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Deniz wrote: > anyway. :) I love this. I have my birthday, and the very next day, my > body finally decides to be sick. Ugh. There ya go. Another present from Me, in the form of My Blessing. I couldn't very well have my High Priestess be sick on her birthday, now could I? So, your body procrastinated a bit at Mine command, and didn't get sick until after. :) Now, to get rid of it, you'd have to find a God(ess) other than I..... =========================================================================== On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Jaguar wrote: > On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Mat the Cat in Green wrote: > > "Hmmm. How would one classify *these*?" As he speaks, two large, white > > coconuts appear, and hover just above and behind Mat's shoulders. > > They are rotating, as if seeking something...or someone out........ > > > BAD BAD BAD MAT! Gee, what a way to delurk. Hey, I never said that I fired them..... > Something I thought of while reading SB.... STORM BREAKING SPOILERS HO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Sounding like Lion-o saying "Thunder! Thunder! Thundercats! Ho!!!!!!!!" ) (only mini space, since we're probably out of spoilers for SB by now) > If Owlflight really is about a male Tayledras.. is there any > reason to think that it might not be Florian? Her books from Arrows on > have been almost sequential (barring V&H), and I was thinking that the > Florian death scene might be a setup for a young, skinny Tayledras with > hair flopping over into his eyes.. who said he had to be a Herald? Just > because he was a Companion in one life.. and the "Children of my other > self" in V&H.. okay, so it's rather lame, but it was something I was > thinking about.. Well, for one thing, my faith in Misty being what it is at the moment, she ain't that subtle. Karal keeps thinking that Florian will be a Herald, so he probably will be one. She's that predictable. Besides, the description of Firebird's page leads me to believe that Owlflight takes place shortly after SB, not enough years for Florian to be reborn and grown up. Other minor speculation: Which Clan do you think the new scout will be from? We've seen k'Treva and k'Sheyna now. Will it be from k'Vaia, k'Vala, or k'Chona? Or do you think Misty will use one of the previous Clans? One good thing if it's k'Treva. We'd probably get to meet Firesong's mother. That'd probably be...interesting. :) > ... Hey! Wait a minute! Homing coconuts aren't vegetables! > What the heck are they? Fruit? I have no idea. :) Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"Hey diddle-dee, answer me this riddle, Adept, God of Procrastination | hey diddle-do, tell me what you will. Heathen #149, and OoUL/L of tLotPW | Dance all day with the Cat and the mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | Fiddle. Come and lay with the Heather http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ | on the hill" --- Heather Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:30:18 -0800 (PST) From: Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: where Heralds fail/telepathy/sf Message-ID: In this discussion of child abuse prevention and where Heralds / RL social workers fail, there's a certain matter of logistics... *Of course* VIPs are better protected than children; there are few VIPs compared to the number of children in any one nation, and fewer VIPs-in-danger compared to abused children. Considering how much time & effort & cooperation from authorities it takes to protect *one* person from someone who has designs on their life, it would take a substantial percentage of the population to protect the young. (And consider that a substantial percentage of the population is, just now, on the other side, *abusing* the young.) The amount of Heralds / RL equivalents we actually have are adequate to deal with protecting VIPs and carrying out their other duties, but there's not enough of them to save all the children. ****** (quotes from Mat) "Most books with telepaths have them be either very moral about it (i.e. - Heralds -- only do it when they have to, supposedly) or very imoral about it (Falconsbane, et all.)." Well, what other choices are there? (Not being snotty--I'm actually wondering, was there some other book that has telepaths that aren't very one or the other?) "Vinge's telpaths (or at least Cat) tend to read people whenever and whyever they feel like it. It bothers *other* people, but not the telepath.[snip]" Moran's Castanaveras telepaths seem to read people a lot (and mess around with people's memories/judgement), but then there's implications that it hurts them & gives them nightmares. I'm waiting for him to write a book that will feature a telepath more so that I can make some guesses about how it works for the Castanaveras. (Well, there was _Emerald Eyes_ with Carl & co, and _The Last Dancer_ with Denice, so it isn't like he's given them short shrift, but still, I wanna see more...) "The third book is _Dreamfall_. Cat goes to Refuge, the Hydran homeworld. Cool book. The ending had me screaming "No Fair!" though.[snip]" Oh. . ****** Em-- "I knew I shoulda transferred." Lessee, obmisty...does the where Heralds fail thing count? I think it does, but it seems rather thin anyway, so...D'you think Valdemarans could invent science fiction (keeping in mind our recent discussion about what sf is)? The Blues could do it, I think, but would they? (I won't ask if Valdemar could have fantasy; I don't see how they could *avoid* having it.) ________________________________________________________________ |*~the Eternally Nourished Lee, Knight of the OAM, Spreader of | |Humor, Self-Appointed User of 5-point Vocabulary Words Such As| |"Panegyric"~* <97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu> | |_Meta Geek Code: !gc______http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4709/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 97 18:15:49 EST From: Aimee Dowd To: Mercedes Lackey Discussion List Subject: sf in valdemar Message-ID: <970204.184520.EST.AIMEDOWD-+AT+-UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> Lee posed the intriguing question can Valdemar have science fiction. My goodness, I really don't know. When did science fiction start developing as a genre in real life? It would seem to me that a society would have to be at a certain technological level for someone to think of writing science fiction. The industrial revolution brought about an explosion of new technologies, but it also caused a change in attitudes about technology. I guess what I mean is people started thinking about it more, started expecting there to be many new technologies in the future, and to wonder where it was leading us. The world started to change, and so people naturally began wondering about the direction of that change . . . hence science fiction -- the _Time Machine_, Jules Verne's stuff, etc. Is Valdemar at a similar point in its history? They are definately in for some radical change -- look at the end of Storm Breaking -- but is it the sort of change that would bring about science fiction? I don't know. It's hard to say because we don't find out *how* things change, just that they do. The blues are inventing all kinds of things, so maybe. Wait -- here's a thought! Does Valdemar have printing presses? If they don't then I would say they could not develop science fiction -- novels, short stories, etc really all depended on the printing press. I think Valdemar's literature is more musical -- when Van took that literature class in MPawn, they sang ballads, remember? Of course, they could have invented the press since then. Anyway, they could have filk music! :) As for fantasy -- instead of being unable to avoid it, I think it would be impossible for them to have it at all! If magic is real, then stories with magic in them would be just plain fiction, not fantasy. Right? Anyway, that's my 2 cents. -Aimee, Dame of the OAM Oh, BTW, all the above stuff about the industrial revolution and all is just pure speculation on my part. I'm not a history person, so I could be getting all my real-world history wrong. And all the stuff about the conditions under which real life science fiction arose is also speculation. I really don't know a whole lot about it; I'm just talking off the top of my head. I have a sudden urge to go to the library and do some research, but I really need to do my school-related research first. Oh, well. Aimee Dowd aimedowd-+AT+-uga.cc.uga.edu *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." -Groucho Marx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 18:52:58 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: deryni/child abuse/religion/books, I found real books! Message-ID: <01IF1196XQV69AONW3-+AT+-delphi.com> Emily--Nice find! Reminds me of the day I went to my college library and found . I'd never even heard of it, but that thing had the entire lyrics to "The Ballad of Hastur and Cassilda" in it. (blissful sigh) Wish I could find my own copy, but I'm sure the thing is long out of print. ObMisty--Uh...I'm still curious to know whether Misty and Larry are continuing with their interest in birds. Okay, so it's a lame ObMisty... Chantal "It's a beautiful day in neighborhood, Carter." --Dr. Benton `[1;32;44mRainbow V 1.20.2 for Delphi - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 19:40:24 -0600 From: Claris/Clarissa Smith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: sf - AKon - Urban Fantasy Fans Wanted! Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970205014024.00b9a89c-+AT+-comp.uark.edu> At 12:14 AM 2/5/97 GMT, Aimee Dowd wrote: >Lee posed the intriguing question can Valdemar have science fiction. My >goodness, I really don't know. When did science fiction start developing as a >genre in real life? It would seem to me that a society would have to be at a >certain technological level for someone to think of writing science fiction. >The industrial revolution brought about an explosion of new technologies, but >it also caused a change in attitudes about technology. I think your logic is pretty good. IMHO, I think for there to be a real, developed sf, your conditions would have to be met. But (and someone out there should know about all this) I remember stories from early Renaissance era about people building mechanical wings to fly to the moon... (Oh, and how old are you, eh? Well, I was born in Scotland in the year 16--er, sorry. Think I worded that wrong!) Anyway, given the presence of some pretty enthusiastic Blues, I should think some one would be writing something that would approximate sf in a liberal definition of the term.. And hmmm, what's fantasy going to be like in a world with such magick? Maybe speculating on other *kinds* of magic. (Hmm, imagine a world where you had to draw a geometric figure, go naked, and smear ointment on your body? Nahhh, that's silly. ;) ) I think it probably becomes even more difficult to distinguish sf and fantasy in this situation, though. =) -------- I know, it's several months from now...but is anyone here thinking about going to Project A-Kon? (it's an anime convention in Dallas) ... reply off-list, a'course. ^_^ -------- OK...I'm starting up a zone on an existing MUSH called AnimeMUSH. The real theme of the site is, of course, manga and anime characters, but they've agreed to the building of a new zone: Bordertown. This is based on the Bordertown novels and anthologies (the novels include _Finder_). Right now we're looking for prospective players. People who've read at least a bit of Bordertown are best, but if you really really liked Misty's urban fantasy, and are willing to read some Bordertown when you can, please telnet to the MUSH at anime.mush.com 6260 and look me up, I'm usually playing Morrigan or Deki. I'll be happy to help you! And if anybody needs help getting there or anything, e-mail me at ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu We really need players! =) ------- Happy New Year! (a couple days early...) *Claris Smith--Major:Art/History, Minor:Asian Studies; GM; sf/fantasy Artist* * ccsmith-+AT+-comp.uark.edu *\*|*/* "http://comp.uark.edu/~ccsmith/"* "Some people think walking down a street muttering to yourself is crazy. Walking down a street with half a melon on your head, saying "I'm a hamster! I'm a hamster!"--now *that's* crazy." (Spy Hard) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 19:45:59 -0800 From: Steve Mattila To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Not me!!! Message-ID: <32F80277.2BAF-+AT+-winternet.com> >>>> On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Steve Mattila wrote: >>>>hmmmmm... let's see here.... >>>> ARGH! I can't think of anything. Do you think that Sayvil was >>>> really Van's Aunt Savil? :) (Couldn't resist). Now I had better >>>> go hide in my practice room before I get pelted with rotten >>>> vegetables by list members.THIS WAS NOT MY DOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I asked that question a LONG time ago. Besides, I don't hind in the practice room! I hide in my closet with my sexy closet monster! -Rowain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:04:37 -0800 From: Steve Mattila To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: A cry for help Message-ID: <32F806D5.735A-+AT+-winternet.com> Help!! If anyone has Hotmail, could you please tell me how to retrive email?!?!? I figured out how to send it, but I can't figure out how to retrive my mail. Thank you. I'm beging to feel stupid; Why does everyone spell Mercedes's nickname, "Misty"??? In one of her books(I do not have them in front of me) she spells it Myste. Does anyone have any info about Myste that I can use in an oral report on her? I am using her as my, "Woman in America" report. Anything off list would be helpful. Thank You!!! -Rowain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:57:25 -0600 From: Lady Ambyrle To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A cry for help Message-ID: <32F80524.44FE-+AT+-named.dalton.net> Steve Mattila wrote: > > Help!! If anyone has Hotmail, could you please tell me how to retrive > email?!?!? I figured out how to send it, but I can't figure out how to > retrive my mail. Thank you. ok, i use hotmail, and i'm assuming by this you mean read the mail that gets sent to you :) let me know if you mean something else :) when you login, after you put in your password, you are automatically on the in-box screen and any email that has been sent to you will automatically be waiting for you. whatever is new mail will have a red arrow next to it. if there's nothing there, then you haven't received anything. hope that helps... ambyrle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:03:56 -0800 From: Mark Severson To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: No misty, apoligies,why, & zombie time. Message-ID: <32F806AC.4AD9-+AT+-eonet.com> Hello all, I don't know if anyone has tried to contact me in via email in January. I kind of doubt it, but if you did I apoligize for not getting back to you. It was a very "interesting" month. It started by visiting the doctor concerning a condition I had had for some time and him saying it might be CANCER and lets do tests. I think you can understand that I was a little distracted. Fortunatly the tests proved negative, I've still got the condition but it is only an annoyance rather then threatening. The day after I received that good news I went to a convention called ConFurence in L.A. If you would like more information on what it is about email me privately and I will do my best to explain it. If you do know what ConFurence is about I want to state for the record that I am NOT a furvert! The vaste majority of fans of this genre are decent folks, believe it or not. Unfortuntly a small minority seem bent on destroying it and a few of them were there. It was not a good con. Since my return from ConFurence I have had one day off. That was spent recovering (1200+ driving one way, end of story) Currently the tax season has landed on my head with both feet and at this point if I only do a 12 hour work day I will be happy so Tax Zombie mode has kicked in with a vengence. When I finally did get a chance to check my mail there were 400+ messages so I just ended up dumping the whole lot. I don't plan on dropping out completly but if you do not put something like "Hey Zombie" in the subject line it will probably get trashed. I hope to get back in the grove some time after the 20th of April. Till then, Thanks I'll be looking in now and then. To all Take Care and God Bless. Mark Severson The Tax Zombie markttz-+AT+-eonet.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:19:50 -0500 (EST) From: Mat the Cat in Green To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: telepath morality/origin of "Misty" Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Lee wrote: I said: > "Most books with telepaths have them be either very moral about it (i.e. - > Heralds -- only do it when they have to, supposedly) or very imoral > about it (Falconsbane, et all.)." > > Well, what other choices are there? (Not being snotty--I'm actually > wondering, was there some other book that has telepaths that aren't very > one or the other?) Well, when I said "immoral", I meant that they were "evil" about it, i.e. Falconsbane enjoying ripping through someone's mind. Cat OTOH doesn't see anything wrong with it. To him (when he has his psi actually working), it's another sense that he has no qualms about using. He might do something that Falconsbane might do, but while Falconsbane does it partly *because* it's "evil", Cat doesn't see anything really wrong with it. I mean, at times, he feels disdainful of the humans, but IMO, that's mostly a self-defense mechanism b/c of how human society treats him (not that Hydran society is all that fond of him.... but you can get what I'm driving at). Does all that make sense to anyone other than me? ========================================================================= On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Steve Mattila wrote: > I'm beging to feel stupid; Why does everyone spell Mercedes's nickname, > "Misty"??? In one of her books(I do not have them in front of me) she > spells it Myste. We call her "Misty" because that's her real life nickname. The "Myste" thing in the prologues of the Winds books is a play on that. From what I remember from the info packet I got when I almost joined Queen's Own, this is what happened. When Mercedes Ritche was young, her friends called her by the nickname "Dee". Well, at some point, she went to work at a summer camp as a camp counselor. The children were required to call their counselors "Mr" or "Miss". Therfore, Dee became "Miss Dee". When said fast, that became "Misdee" or "Misty". The name stuck, and everyone began to call her that. Last I heard, she liked everyone to call her that, friends, family, and fans included. :) Mat Cat Person, Champion in Green, |"Hey diddle-dee, answer me this riddle, Adept, God of Procrastination | hey diddle-do, tell me what you will. Heathen #149, and OoUL/L of tLotPW | Dance all day with the Cat and the mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | Fiddle. Come and lay with the Heather http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/ | on the hill" --- Heather Alexander ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1087 **********************************