MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1091 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: sf in valdemar by "Ulf G. Dahlmann" 2) lesbian rant by Jan 3) parents by "Hth." 4) ooo -- OAM rally call! by rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Cat Person) 5) Re: sf in valdemar by Faranheit-+AT+-aol.com 6) Re: lesbian rant by Sandra K Haas 7) "normal" childhood/bdays/fluff by Liseth-+AT+-aol.com 8) Re: parents by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu (Nina Ehgartner) 9) Rivkin's Books (No Misty) by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 10) Heyla by 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 11) Re: sf in valdemar by "Cindy Meeks" 12) Re: lesbian rant by Jennifer 13) Renunciate books/parodies by Jaguar 14) Short fluff by Jaguar 15) Re: sf in valdemar by davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker) 16) Re: ooo -- OAM rally call! by "Vrondi" 17) Shieldmates/Shield-sisters by Robbie Betts 18) Re: parents by "Ulf G. Dahlmann" 19) Re: ooo -- OAM rally call! by "Ulf G. Dahlmann" 20) Re: Heyla by rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Cat Person) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 03:32:17 +0100 From: "Ulf G. Dahlmann" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: sf in valdemar Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970207033229.116f608e-+AT+-hrz1.hrz.th-darmstadt.de> At 19:44 05.02.97 GMT, Sera wrote: >Aimee said: >> When did science fiction start developing as a genre in real life? >> Does Valdemar have printing presses? If they don't then I would say they could >> not develop science fiction -- novels, short stories, etc really all depended >> on the printing press. > > ...... printing presses in Valdemar .... >Talia receives a bound book of music and ballards. Granted, it >was music, but it was still a bound book so my bet is that there were >presses. Oh, I just thought of another point with Talia from when >she was taking lessons. She often found notes in her books and they >were often ruined by the pranks of others. If there were no presses >then books would be rare and valuable and therefore cause Talia even >more trouble than simply having a ruined book. Does that make sense? Printing Presses, having books is no indication, books appearing cheap (the ruined books don't necessarily mean getting in trouble, depends on ownership and availability of book / Pranks even destroy valuable things) is more an indication, yet no proof. But how about oral stories ?? There could have been a lot of science fiction or fantasy around; the difficulty is on how to call it and classification. There is the story of the magical (??) horse within the Arabian Nights, taken up by Chaucer in the 14th Century, works through buttons - That definitely can fall under sci-fi. And I bet they had stories like this in Valdemar. Ulf, who is making a note in the PIM to travel to Valdemar soon. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf aka Vanyel: vanyel-+AT+-compuserve.com valdemar-+AT+-geocities.com vanyel-+AT+-hrz1.hrz.th-darmstadt.de vanyelulf-+AT+-aol.com vanyel-+AT+-cutey.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/2211/ http://members.aol.com/pepverlag2/iglyo/iglyo.html http://members.aol.com/pepverlag/peptop.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 23:55:28 -0500 From: Jan To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: lesbian rant Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970207045528.006ce288-+AT+-pop.mindspring.com> Hey, y'all! >Thus far, the only really good lesbian character I know of offhand is >Rali Antero from Allan Cole & Chris Bunch's *The Warrior's Tale.* Beyond >that, good luck. > But, MZB also writes something on lesbians too. I >remember one Darkover trilogy, but I can't remember the first book's title. >Anyway, books 2 and 3 were The Thendara House and City of Sorcery. The first book is _The Shattered Chain_ . One of them, I can't remember which, is the story of Magda and her relationship with one of the Free Amazons. And, it is a textual-sexual relationship, one of the very few Ive come accross. Ob Misty--- Um Uh---Oh, yeah, Ive been wondering---In Fire Rose, why do the green room and red room make Rose feel uncomfortable, and the brown room doesn't? I would think it would be the least appealing, since she is air and earth is the opposite of air. Also, if the green room makes her feel that way, why doesn't the celadon one? Hey!!! **Light bulb appears over her head and suddenly blinks on** A new Misty book----_The Celadon Gryphon_------The sad tale of a celadon gryphon who loves clay and struggles to overcome the handicap his claws present to creating the exquisite pottery of his dreams. Summerstar( formerly Jayenna) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 23:18:04 CST From: "Hth." To: Subject: parents Message-ID: <06FEB97.25165419.0115.MUSIC-+AT+-ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> Actually, I think the whole Selenay thing was one of those times where the author was going for something, but got sidetracked and let it die of old age. I think it was supposed to be interesting & important, the mixed feelings Selenay had for Elspeth, the discomfort she felt in the role of mother as opposed to the role of Queen. But it could've been done more effectively, IMHO. Maybe a little residual resentment on Elspeth's part? We never see them talk about it, even when Elspeth is older. Maybe some jealousy on Selenay's part, that Talia had this natural knack with kids that Selenay just felt she couldn't master -- that her daughter loved Talia so much while Selenay wasn't really part of her life? I don't know, there were a lot of directions this could've taken, but it kind of dwindled away. On another tack. I know how wretched it seems to modern Western sensibilities, letting other people raise your kids, but you know what? In lots of times and places, it was perfectly normal among the upper classes. If Valdemar were a real-world medieval society, no one would ever have expected Selenay to be up in the nursery playing with her toddler -- in fact, she would've been perceived as odd, at the very least, had she done so. Given the very little we see of adults having intimate places in kids' lives in Valdemar (they tend to appear as distant authority figures), I'm inclined to think the situation is similar. Maybe Selenay's method of child-raising was perfectly ordinary among the Valdemaran ruling class. We can think it's wrong, but that's a terribly modern idea, and it's wise to remember that not every culture has the same idea of right and wrong. (And remember -- if you lived any time before very recently, the chances were very good that you'd have several children in your life, and a good third of them would never live to adulthood. Psychologically, wouldn't it be tremendously difficult to invest your heart and soul in something so fragile as one child? Parents were often encouraged to keep some distance between themselves and their children, just because it could be too hard to lose a child or three otherwise. Infant mortality may be much lower in Valdemar, that I don't know.) Anyway, I thought it was interesting that Selenay wasn't mother of the year, except that Misty sort of conveniently ignores it from there on out, and likes to cultivate the impression that Selenay's one of those tremendously perfect Herald types. I would've used that, if I'd been writing the series; I think you could get good dramatic grist out of it. Just my two cents. The Order of Amber & Marigold is a secret cabal of Vanyel worshippers who get together periodically to hex people who call him whiny and listen to "Magic's Price" backwards to hear the good song secretly encoded within. No, actually, we're just a bunch of people who like Vanyel and stick OAM after our names. Amber was Vanyel's mage focus-stone, you'll recall, and marigold was the secret yummy ingredient in Tylendel's Tingly Seduction Cream. Personally, I'm waiting for The Paisley Gryphon and Oathbroads. Seriously, though, what do you think comes after Owlflight? I don't think she does stand-alones anymore, so I'm thinking trilogy. Will we swap birds -- Falconflight, Woodpeckerflight, Penguinflight? Or will the owl do different things -- Owlflirt, Owlfall, Owls of the Queen? (The temptation to make really awful and possibly illegal jokes with this was successfully resisted, thanks.) HTH Wand-Sworn Champion to the Ladies of the Pink Wand Grand Dame of the Order of Amber and Marigold DragonCon Shepherd r618-+AT+-academic.truman.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 01:15:31 EST From: rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Cat Person) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: ooo -- OAM rally call! Message-ID: <19970207.001629.3654.1.rozanm-+AT+-juno.com> Cennydd said: >In Misty's ouevre, for example, I would only consider Stefen to be a really >likable person. Vanyel is definitely NOT. He is tragic, admirable, >pitiable and the like, but not really "likable." 'Lendel had >possibilities, but his insanity reduced his "likability" quotient. ho boy, hordes of OAM members will be descending on Cennydd at any moment to defend Vanyel and point out all of his likeable traits (as soon as they find some . . . -- wait! 'talented fingers'!-Cen, didn't you something in the Bower about talented fingers??? ) /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Firemist rozanm-+AT+-juno.com Lore-Mistress of the Cat People Goddess of Made From Scratch Foods Devoted Chaser of Mattikins ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 02:52:08 -0500 (EST) From: Faranheit-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: sf in valdemar Message-ID: <970207021802_2059648151-+AT+-emout03.mail.aol.com> I think that they probably have sf literature already, but they probably wouldn't call it buy that title. Maybe, to them, what we call sf is fantasy to them. I also just wanted to say that they alread had printing presses in Vanyel's time. In MPromise, Van, when buying a lute for Medren, was comparing the workmanship of the first ones he saw, to the one's the craftsman showed later, to a simple printed page to a beautiful illumination. Peony Dame of the OAM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:08:35 -0500 (EST) From: Sandra K Haas To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: lesbian rant Message-ID: OFF TOPIC OF MISTY, BUT ON TOPIC TO SUBJECT: Who watched ER last night and died laughing when Carter shot out the light fixture in the firing range?? "Thats my ex-girlfriend, just broke up with her two weeks ago and she is so jealous!!" What a hoot!! Who ever that new gal is, I knew I liked her!! -back to our regularly scheduled Misty-list! Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:07:03 -0500 (EST) From: Liseth-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: "normal" childhood/bdays/fluff Message-ID: <970206152923_-1509551631-+AT+-emout08.mail.aol.com> I guess writing about a normal childhood would be rather useless. Everyone seems to forget about it. I could swear Dirk had a normal childhood, and Kris' childhood was normal in that his parents had no idea how to deal with a child. Some other people with normal childhoods have been very recently mentioned: Sherrill and Keren and Teren. At least for that setting, it wouldn't be normal today (no baths in winter?!!!!). Godiva asked: >>>Sorry, no . A good ObMisty might be something like "Why >wasn't Misty >a playwright?" > Pardon the new and computer illiterate, but would someone be so good as to explain this?<< It was supposed to be a joke. Probably a bad one. I probably wasn't in my right mind at the time. Or my left mind for that matter. When did I send that? I haven't even been to school all week and I'm just beginning to catch up on the mail (groan, how'm I ever to catch up? Drop out?) Guesss this is a good place to stick something. Yesterday I sent a short post, which I don't think got through (I probably misspelled the address). It was probably a good thing it didn't get through, it was all fluff about the bdays I missed. My gift (which I have since discovered would have come to late for Lady Deniz) to all the February birthdays (and I'll throw in all the March birthdays as well, just to make it spread better) is a vial of medicine that keeps away all ills, forever. If it doesn't intrude on someone's demense. >>Yes, sort-of. The British one is the first, and technically "correct" version (though not according to Webster) When we fiesty Americans revolted, we started saying things phonetically, or just however we darn well wanted to.<< Who's to say what's correct? Language started before writing. Spelling in English makes no sense. I can spell whatever I want however I want to spell it. Where's the "r" in colonel, anyway? For Godiva only (everyone else knows this): Oh, and about my sig. We have lots of deities on the list. You might join us one day (you are a newbie, right? I don't think I've seen you before. Welcome to the m..fun.) Jennifer wrote: >>As I recall, he was stationed there (therefore it was part of the job), but he does mention that he was accepted into the family. I guess my point was that the family was a happy normal one whether Skif was a part of one or not. I was just trying to prove that happy families did exist in Valdemar.<< Except that was in Hardorn, not Valdemar. And lastly: >>Heather (Not What She Said, Not the Singer, nor an adequate back-up Heather for either of those. Completely insignificant.)<< Ever thought of joining the clergy, Heather? Mine, to be precise? ************************************************************ Liseth (Liseth-+AT+-aol.com) Goddess of Running Away and Hiding Under Tables First Master of the Guild of Typoists ************************************************************ "Life is easier to take than you'd think; all that is necessary is to accept the impossible, do without the indispensable and bear the intolerable." -Kathleen Norris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 08:18:12 -0600 From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu (Nina Ehgartner) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: parents Message-ID: <199702071416.AA236304999-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu> >I think it was supposed to be interesting & important, the mixed >feelings Selenay had for Elspeth, the discomfort she felt in the role of >mother as opposed to the role of Queen. But it could've been done more >effectively, IMHO. Maybe a little residual resentment on Elspeth's >part? We never see them talk about it, even when Elspeth is older. I just don't understand the whole Selenay-Elspaeht relationship. In Arrows, Selenay has virtually no mentioned interaction with her daughter. In WoFury, Selenay finally sees her daughter as a grown woman and comments how proud she is of her daughter (the scene when Selenay is told about the assassination team being sent into Hardorn). It's as if they've finally established some sort of mother-daughter relationship. Then, in SBreaking, Elspeth is thinking to herself how she and Selenay are friends at best and that they never had a close relationship. Elspeth also comments how Selenay only sees her murerous husband when she sees her daughter. That was an about-face from what Misty was leading to in Winds? Is it just me, or was this whole thing confusing? Nina Ehgartner Admissions Assistant-Office of Admissions and Financial Aid J.L. Kellogg Graduate School of Management email: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu Phone: (847) 491-3308 Fax: (847) 491-4960 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:28:16 -0500 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Rivkin's Books (No Misty) Message-ID: <9702071428.AA17841-+AT+-water.waterw.com> On Thu, 6 Feb 1997 12:08:22 -0500 (EST), Cennydd wrote in reply to Hth.'s "required lesbian rant": >Have you read the series by R.A. Rivkin (the only title I can remember is >"Silverglass: Web of Wind"). The main characters are a lesbian and her bi >friend/guard. Nyc (the sorceress) is unabashedly lesbian and does get to >have some textually present "reindeer games." However, that is the only >one I can think of. Actually, I thought Nyctasia was bi as well. Wasn't she running off in the first book to be with her boyfriend? I've come across 4 books for the Silverglass series, all published by Ace: SILVERGLASS - pub Sept 1986, ISBN 0-441-76600-5 WEB OF THE WIND - pub Dec 1987, ISBN 0-441-87883-0 WITCH OF RHOSTSHYL - pub June 1989, ISBN 0-441-76683-8 MISTRESS OF AMBIGUITIES - pub Apr 1991, ISBN 0-441-76601-3 Jeanne Hedge http://www.accsyst.com/jhedge/ Assistant SysOp Compuserve Anime/Manga Forum ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:59:27 +0100 From: 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Heyla Message-ID: <62C7125171-+AT+-ghondr.mmu.ac.uk> Bright the day to one and all. I'm returning to the list for the moment after a long absence. [Coursework blues] I need a break from the mundain and a return to truely important topics. I'll be so far behind with everything that it will take some time for me to catch up on what's happening. ************************************************ Zha'hai'allav'a Kalen Shena Vuysher'edras Kal'enedral [OIB](AKA Jason Stokes) 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk "If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended. That you have but slumbered here While these visions did appear". *Puck, Midsummer Nights Dream* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:10:24 -0600 From: "Cindy Meeks" To: Subject: Re: sf in valdemar Message-ID: <199702071506.JAA27239-+AT+-smtp.gte.net> ---------- > From: Peony > I think that they probably have sf literature already, but they probably > wouldn't call it buy that title. Maybe, to them, what we call sf is fantasy > to them. What a Cool Idea! And it makes perfect Sense! What is technology in our world could be magic in Valdimar. Call me Cindy... Call me Rune... I'll play in the ocean Till I look like a prune!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 11:42:08 -0600 From: Jennifer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: lesbian rant Message-ID: <199702071645.KAA91484-+AT+-audumla.students.wisc.edu> At 01:41 PM 2/7/97 GMT,Sandra wrote: >OFF TOPIC OF MISTY, BUT ON TOPIC TO SUBJECT: > >Who watched ER last night and died laughing when Carter shot out the light >fixture in the firing range?? "Thats my ex-girlfriend, just broke up with >her two weeks ago and she is so jealous!!" > >What a hoot!! Who ever that new gal is, I knew I liked her!! > I did I did I did!!! It was great. I was thinking about this whole train of conversation even as I was watching it. HEe Hee... I'm beginning to like ER more every day.. Jennifer >-back to our regularly scheduled Misty-list! > >Sandy > > **************************************************************** Jennifer Dorn jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu "There are more things on heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." -Hamlet **************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:16:27 -0500 (EST) From: Jaguar To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Renunciate books/parodies Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Feb 1997, Jan wrote: > The first book is _The Shattered Chain_ . One of them, I can't remember > which, is the story of Magda and her relationship with one of the Free > Amazons. And, it is a textual-sexual relationship, one of the very few Ive > come accross. It's _The Shattered Chain_, _Thendara House_, and _City of Sorcery_. IIRC, there was a bit of discussion about those the last time the lesbian rant was posted, and we generally (there were probably a few dissensions but offhand I can't think of who) agreed that the first two were good, but that _City of Sorcery_ wasn't as good. Umm.. any new input on these? Personally, I liked _Thendara House_.. and one short story in one of the Darkover anthologies, can't remember which one it was.. after the fall of the .... (SPOILER! Continues at bottom of message...) At any rate.. apart from the relationships, tSC is about women's roles on Darkover (Lady Rohana and Kindra [Camilla?'s oathmother], for those who've read other Darkover books) and whether or not to deviate/renounce those roles, TH is about balancing a Darkovan and Terran identity (Magda/Margali and Jaelle), and I can't for the life of me remember what CityoS is about. > **Light bulb appears over her head and suddenly blinks on** > A new Misty book----_The Celadon Gryphon_------The sad tale of a celadon > gryphon who loves clay and struggles to overcome the handicap his claws > present to creating the exquisite pottery of his dreams. > ! I like I like! May I add to my list of parodies to be written? Ulp! And I hope Jake won't object to my infringing on his territory.. I didn't mean to! Really! It just slipped out! S P O I L E R ... fall of the Forbidden Tower, when Magda comes back, and there's a really sweet reunion scene between her and .. Camilla? Damn, I think that's it, I need to go back and check my books... Love, Jaguar Leader of the Cat People J: "You're robbing a govt installation, Goddess of Large Hunter Cats Isn't that treason or something?" Chronicler of the Mage Wars K: "Your point is what?" Lady in Green -- Det. Jordan and Kermit Knight of Amber and Marigold Kung Fu: The Legend Continues ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:21:21 -0500 (EST) From: Jaguar To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Short fluff Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Feb 1997, Hth. wrote: > focus-stone, you'll recall, and marigold was the secret yummy ingredient > in Tylendel's Tingly Seduction Cream. > Personally, I'm waiting for The Paisley Gryphon and Oathbroads. I can write those, too... > Seriously, though, what do you think comes after Owlflight? I don't > think she does stand-alones anymore, so I'm thinking trilogy. Will we > swap birds -- Falconflight, Woodpeckerflight, Penguinflight? Or will > the owl do different things -- Owlflirt, Owlfall, Owls of the Queen? > (The temptation to make really awful and possibly illegal jokes with > this was successfully resisted, thanks.) > Aaaw... don't resist on our part! Hrmmm.. Magieflight, Ravenflight, Linnetflight, Finchflight, Ospreyflight, CrestedHawkEagleflight, Crowflight, Sparrowflight, Robinflight, Starlingflight, Parrotflight, Cockatooflight, Quetzalflight.... Owlfire, Owlflame, Owlfright, Owl.. you know, you're right, the temptation to make illegal jokes *is* hard to resist. Love, Jaguar Leader of the Cat People J: "You're robbing a govt installation, Goddess of Large Hunter Cats Isn't that treason or something?" Chronicler of the Mage Wars K: "Your point is what?" Lady in Green -- Det. Jordan and Kermit Knight of Amber and Marigold Kung Fu: The Legend Continues ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:18:36 -0800 From: davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: sf in valdemar Message-ID: "Ulf G. Dahlmann" wrote: Actually, I'm not responding to Ulf, just borroiwng some earier messages I seem to have missed... >At 19:44 05.02.97 GMT, Sera wrote: >>Aimee said: >>> Does Valdemar have printing presses? If they don't then I would say they >could >>> not develop science fiction -- novels, short stories, etc really all depended >>> on the printing press. >> >> ...... printing presses in Valdemar .... >>Talia receives a bound book of music and ballards. Granted, it >>was music, but it was still a bound book so my bet is that there were >>presses. Oh, I just thought of another point with Talia from when >>she was taking lessons. She often found notes in her books and they >>were often ruined by the pranks of others. If there were no presses >>then books would be rare and valuable and therefore cause Talia even >>more trouble than simply having a ruined book. Does that make sense? I could swear we've been here before! 1) Binding and printing are seperate processes, you can have one without the other. EX. My printer that sets next to my computer, it binds not (neither does it spin)(sorry about that) 2) How rare/valuable hand copied(or printed) books would be depends on how many people are making them and what the going labor rate is. Just because they were rare in medeval europa doesn't mean they had to be. Remember, demand was also quite low! 3) (In response to Farenhiet's message) It is quite possible to print entire books without a printing press using carved blocks. This process was in use in China hundreds of years before Herr Gutenburg came up with his press. Even movable type can be used without a press to automate the process. David Tiffany, God of Typos, To whom this whole subject is of vital importance being direeectly connected to the essssence of mine godhead!!!!<-Count 'em and weep ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:29:03 +0000 From: "Vrondi" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ooo -- OAM rally call! Message-ID: <199702071938.OAA01451-+AT+-student1.concord.wvnet.edu> > Cennydd said: > >In Misty's ouevre, for example, I would only consider Stefen to be a > really > >likable person. Vanyel is definitely NOT. He is tragic, admirable, > >pitiable and the like, but not really "likable." 'Lendel had > >possibilities, but his insanity reduced his "likability" quotient. A gale-force wind storm descends upon Cennydd! A swarm of vrondis surround him, buffetting him with wind 'till he can hardly stand up! Words echo in the wind *Take that , he who spake aginst Vanyel!* -Vrondi (Bard of Amber and Marigold) Data:"I may be chasing an untamed ornothoid without cause." Dr Crusher: "A wild goose chase?" Data: "Precisely. http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/book ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 16:04:44 -0500 From: Robbie Betts To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Shieldmates/Shield-sisters Message-ID: I always thought that this was the song that got Leslac? the bard in trouble for saying that "He was the guy that could turn Tarma `straight'" That's was my imipression about why it is worded that way... Just my .02$ American (the metal is worth more than the coin...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:51:13 +0100 From: "Ulf G. Dahlmann" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: parents Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970207225131.116f2ba0-+AT+-hrz1.hrz.th-darmstadt.de> At 05:53 07.02.97 GMT, Hth wrote: >On another tack. I know how wretched it seems to modern Western >sensibilities, letting other people raise your kids, but you know what? >In lots of times and places, it was perfectly normal among the upper >classes. .... Aren't we doing the same thing in child care, Kindergarten, au pair girls (please excuse the non-PC term) etc. ??? Some families where the mothers are too busy working (be it for career reason or because she doesn't have a choice in order to survive), children are away most of the time at these places, or with grandma, etc. >(And remember -- if you lived any time before very recently, the chances >were very good that you'd have several children in your life, and a good >third of them would never live to adulthood. Psychologically, wouldn't >it be tremendously difficult to invest your heart and soul in something >so fragile as one child? Parents were often encouraged to keep some >distance between themselves and their children, just because it could be >too hard to lose a child or three otherwise. Infant mortality may be >much lower in Valdemar, that I don't know.) One of histories misconceptions !!!!!!!!!! Parents always loved their children VERY much, and cried a lot when the child died or was taken, yet they didn't have a choice. Infant mortality was higher, yes, but the emotional involvement was just the same as today, enough sources verify this. And renaming the next baby with the same name. Don't you think it might have been in order to replace the former child, which had been taken (through death) from the parents, trying to make up for the loss. Ulf -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf aka Vanyel: vanyel-+AT+-compuserve.com valdemar-+AT+-geocities.com vanyel-+AT+-hrz1.hrz.th-darmstadt.de vanyelulf-+AT+-aol.com vanyel-+AT+-cutey.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/2211/ http://members.aol.com/pepverlag2/iglyo/iglyo.html http://members.aol.com/pepverlag/peptop.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 01:25:05 +0100 From: "Ulf G. Dahlmann" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ooo -- OAM rally call! Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970208012520.56e7b5a2-+AT+-hrz1.hrz.th-darmstadt.de> At 06:47 07.02.97 GMT, Firemist wrote: >Cennydd said: >>In Misty's ouevre, for example, I would only consider Stefen to be a really >>likable person. Vanyel is definitely NOT. He is tragic, admirable, >>pitiable and the like, but not really "likable." 'Lendel had >>possibilities, but his insanity reduced his "likability" quotient. > >ho boy, hordes of OAM members will be descending >on Cennydd at any moment to defend Vanyel and >point out all of his likeable traits (as soon as >they find some . . . -- wait! 'talented fingers'!-Cen, >didn't you something in the Bower about >talented fingers??? ) > Naw, Cennydd is just jealous that we all like Vanyel with the many likeable traits. What is this with talented fingers ??? Please expand !!! And I also like 'Lendel. What is insanity anyways? Ulf -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf aka Vanyel: vanyel-+AT+-compuserve.com valdemar-+AT+-geocities.com vanyel-+AT+-hrz1.hrz.th-darmstadt.de vanyelulf-+AT+-aol.com vanyel-+AT+-cutey.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/2211/ http://members.aol.com/pepverlag2/iglyo/iglyo.html http://members.aol.com/pepverlag/peptop.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 19:12:35 EST From: rozanm-+AT+-juno.com (Cat Person) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heyla Message-ID: <19970207.181344.4390.2.rozanm-+AT+-juno.com> On Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:16:36 GMT 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> writes: >Bright the day to one and all. > >I'm returning to the list for the moment after a long absence. >[Coursework blues] I need a break from the mundain and a return to >truely important topics. I'll be so far behind with everything that >it will take some time for me to catch up on what's happening. > LORD JASON!!!!! (still 5!) er, whups! I mean KALEN!!!!! Your numbers on the Mage-wars have dwindled to 2! email if you want a quick catch-up, and remind me where you left off. . . /-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/ Firemist(ywisty) rozanm-+AT+-juno.com Lore-Mistress of the Cat People Goddess of Made From Scratch Foods Sole Chaser of Mattikins During the Festival ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1091 **********************************