MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1101 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Gods and Goddesses by "David Maginnis" 2) Re: Gods and Goddesses by "Jay" 3) Re: Gods and Goddesses by Mark Severson 4) RE: Gods and Goddesses by "Brooke Shapiro" 5) Re: Gods and Goddesses by Erik Wayne McKee 6) Re: Gods and Goddesses by Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> 7) ADMIN: FAQ by Melanie Dymond Harper 8) Re: Abrev. List by sage.blackhart-+AT+-juno.com (sage f blackhart) 9) Re: Gods and Goddesses by sage.blackhart-+AT+-juno.com (sage f blackhart) 10) a braid: rogue bards/GUT/fave bits/was he, wasn't he/ by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl 11) Re: Letter of introduction by Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-BAYLOR.EDU 12) Re: fave bits (of Esmeralda's) by chelsea etitameh 13) Re: Gods and Goddesses (Iftel) by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 14) RE: a braid by "Eleonora Scoseria" 15) Fluff/ Gods and Goddesses/ fluff by Azreil1997-+AT+-aol.com 16) Bardic Gift/Newbie Fest/likability/Tamora Pierce (off topic) by "Emily the invisible" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 01:18:40 -0000 From: "David Maginnis" To: "lackey" Subject: Gods and Goddesses Message-ID: <199702170118.BAA21379-+AT+-excalibur.netcom.net.uk> Hi everyone, Does anyone think that the gods of Valdemar seem pretty weak?. I mean I know they have companions but compared to Karse or Iftel or even the Star eyed herself the Gods of Valdemar are'nt mentioned much. M oonsight ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:03:51 CDT From: "Jay" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses Message-ID: <110B2623AF4-+AT+-acad2.dana.edu> Moonsight Said > Hi everyone, > Does anyone think that the gods of Valdemar seem pretty > weak?. I mean I know they have companions but compared to Karse or Iftel or > even the Star eyed herself the Gods of Valdemar are'nt mentioned much. > > M oonsight Hi all. This is one of my first replies. Yeah. :) Please don't get negative towards this. cause it IS only an opinion. I think Moonsights opinion is very valid but I have mine as well. Well, First off, I think that the gods of valdamar are very powerfull. I think they represent the greater good. I don't know for sure. I think that maybe they don't have to show there power to prove they are there and to prove themselves to people. I'm sure if worst came to worst they would get involved and kick some major booty. But it seems that they don't intervene unless they really have to. They gave the companions to the heralds cause they knew the heralds could handle the problems. You are right however that they really aren't mentioned much. and your basis for your opinion is really good. They could be week. But they could also be damned powerfull to. Maybe Lackey will write in a futur book a little more about the gods of valdamar. Who knows. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 18:25:55 -0800 From: Mark Severson To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses Message-ID: <3307C1B3.6C22-+AT+-eonet.com> David Maginnis wrote: > > Hi everyone, Does anyone think that the gods of Valdemar seem pretty weak?. I mean I know they have companions but compared to Karse or Iftel or even the Star eyed herself the Gods of Valdemar are'nt mentioned much. > > M oonsight The Zombie speaks, Just popped in to see what was going on, and I thought I would throw my two cents in, then duck! Per what my meager memory can recover currently (an 84 hour work week tends to dull the memory.) Karse and Iftel and the Plains for that matter have One major diety. Valemar on the other hand "takes on all comers," that is as long as you don't try to start a religous war to convert all the "heavens" your idea of worship is welcomed. Talia's people were refuges from Karse due to thier religious beleifs, the Cook (can't remember his name) beleived in the the One, there is even a class taught to the Heralds so that they would understand the different religions of Valemar, both to keep them from breaking a groups taboos and to better understand them. So I would suspect that when you have a nation of many religions none of the gods will really be able to have more influence then the others. The one problem with this idea in my mind is that in the most recent books it appears to me that some of these deities are really the same one merely using a different name in different locations. Does anyone else get this impression? Mark the Tax Zombie P. S. Yes if you have a general tax question (for those of you in the U.S, sorry but I have no idea of the tax laws outside the states) send it to me via private email and if I am able I will answer it. However if you are getting into something extremly complicated then I suggest you find an E.A.(Enrolled Agent) in your area. If you're curious what an EA is, then email me and I will let you know. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 03:26:07 UT From: "Brooke Shapiro" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Gods and Goddesses Message-ID: I think they refered to..but actually not prayed to or anything else... Mara ---------- From: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk on behalf of David Maginnis Sent: Sunday, February 16, 1997 7:38 PM To: Brooke Shapiro Subject: Gods and Goddesses Hi everyone, Does anyone think that the gods of Valdemar seem pretty weak?. I mean I know they have companions but compared to Karse or Iftel or even the Star eyed herself the Gods of Valdemar are'nt mentioned much. M oonsight ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 23:31:09 -0600 (CST) From: Erik Wayne McKee To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Mark Severson wrote: > David Maginnis wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, Does anyone think that the gods of Valdemar seem pretty weak?. I mean > I know they have companions but compared to Karse or Iftel or even the > Star eyed herself the Gods of Valdemar are'nt mentioned much. > > > > M oonsight > > The Zombie speaks, > > Just popped in to see what was going on, and I thought I would throw > my two cents in, then duck! > Per what my meager memory can recover currently (an 84 hour work week > tends to dull the memory.) Karse and Iftel and the Plains for that > matter have One major diety. Valemar on the other hand "takes on all > comers," that is as long as you don't try to start a religous war to > convert all the "heavens" your idea of worship is welcomed. Talia's > people were refuges from Karse due to thier religious beleifs, the Cook > (can't remember his name) beleived in the the One, there is even a class > taught to the Heralds so that they would understand the different > religions of Valemar, both to keep them from breaking a groups taboos > and to better understand them. So I would suspect that when you have a > nation of many religions none of the gods will really be able to have > more influence then the others. > The one problem with this idea in my mind is that in the most recent > books it appears to me that some of these deities are really the same > one merely using a different name in different locations. Does anyone > else get this impression? > > Mark the Tax Zombie If I remember right, it gets mentioned in Storm Warning by Ulrich (I think), that they sorta believe that any good done in the name of any diety, or no diety at all even, is done in the name of Vikandis, and any evil is done against Vikandis. Now, I don't know about any of the rest of you, but that immediately reminded me of a simmilar passage near the end of C. S. Lewis's The Last Battle (Book 7, Chronicles of Narnia). So it is indeed possible that all dieties, in Velgarth or possibly in our world, could all be merely different aspects of a single diety. Sorta makes religious disputes sound awfully stupid, doesn't it (especially the "My diety is stronger/more powerful than yours" type. ;) Bright Blessings Erik #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 00:13:21 -0800 (PST) From: Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses Message-ID: (Moonsight asked about the seeming weakness of Valdemaran deities) His Tax-Zombieness Mark said: > Karse and Iftel and the Plains for that matter have One major diety. Er, make that one major belief system/pantheon; most of them actually have two deities (remember that Karse's Goddess sorta got forgotten/supressed during the reign of the false Sons of the Sun) tho' with Iftel it's hard to tell. Van refers to it as one deity, while Kethry refers to the Wind Lords(?) (but they could be some kind of mage or priestly organization, come to think of it). (Mark still:) > The one problem with this idea in my mind is that in the most recent > books it appears to me that some of these deities are really the same > one merely using a different name in different locations. Does anyone > else get this impression? Ask Kory. (Where is the elf, anyway?) Hm, I seem to remember from awhile ago some mentions of the "Theory of False Godly Noses and Hammers"--that yes, there *is* just one or two deities (to Kory & adherents of Velgarthian Duotheism, it's two), using different names/aspects (noses) and specialties/powers (hammers). Yeah, there's no focus on Valdemaran deities; I think it's 'cause Heralds & other folk that Misty concentrates on tend not to rely on their deities much--the Valdemaran characters, I mean; she allows her non- Valdemarans more...piety is not the word I'm looking for, here...more religious involvement? Maybe for the same reason that, er, was it Erik who said Valdemaran deities might have less influence because they have to share the region with so many other deities? --anyhow, maybe the creed of religious pluralism leads our characters, who are concerned with the nation as a whole, to think about the gods less. ________________________________________________________________ |*~the Eternally Nourished Lee, Knight of the OAM, Spreader of | |Humor, Self-Appointed User of 5-point Vocabulary Words Such As| |"Panegyric"~* <97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu> | |_Meta Geek Code: !gc______http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4709/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:44:35 GMT From: Melanie Dymond Harper To: mercedes-lackey Subject: ADMIN: FAQ Message-ID: <199702171044.KAA23283-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Okay, for those of you who want to get off the list, here's the FAQ for how to do it. Remember the bit of mail you were sent when you joined? Included all the details for how to get things to work? You deleted it, didn't you. Read this, instead. Note for those of you on AOL; you cannot leave the subject line of your mail blank. Use "No Subject" instead. Mercedes Lackey Mailing List FAQ -------------------------------- ============================================================================== Part 1 of this FAQ, which deals with administration of the mailing list, will be posted approximately monthly to the mailing list. All parts are available by the following methods: mail: send mail to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk, with a blank Subject: line, and message body: get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.1 get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.2 get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.3 get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.4 get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.5 This will send the FAQ to you, in 5 separate messages. FTP: ftp://ftp.herald.co.uk/pub/lists/lackey-archives/ HTTP: http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/lackey_faq.html ============================================================================== CONTENTS: Part 1 About the Mailing List Part 2 Merchandise, Ordering and Miscellanea Part 3 Lackey Bibliography Part 4 Frequently Discussed Topics on the Mailing List Part 5 Other Lackey-related Groups ============================================================================== Part 1. The Mailing List ------------------------ Version 2.0, May 24th 1995 Compiled by Melanie Dymond Harper New in version 2.0: Rewritten to reflect change of site. Added information about 'POSTPONE' setting. Changed feedback address. Swapped bibliography and administrative parts of the FAQ (admin now part 1, bibliography now part 3) New in version 1.4: External group information removed (now in part 5 of FAQ) New in version 1.3: changes to external group information. New in version 1.2: information about other ML-related groups (AOL, Genie & USENET); explicit address for feedback. New in version 1.1: information about release form; way of getting release form; 'new in ...' list. 1. What is this list anyhow? ---------------------------- This is a mailing list for discussion of the works of Mercedes Lackey, including both her fantasy and non-fantasy work, either solo or in collaboration with other authors. It is currently unmoderated. 2. How do I subscribe to the list? ---------------------------------- Send a mail message to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk with subject blank and message body SUBSCRIBE MERCEDES-LACKEY your name If you have problems with this, contact the list owner (see below). 3. How do I unsubscribe to the list? ------------------------------------ Send a mail message to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk with subject blank and message body UNSUBSCRIBE MERCEDES-LACKEY Again, if you have problems with this, contact the list owner. 4. How do I send messages to the list? -------------------------------------- Messages for the list at large should be sent to mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk (rather than to the list processor address) There is no requirement to follow any threads that may already be in progress. Feel free to start discussion on anything you like -- as long as it's at least vaguely relevant. Flaming, and rudeness in general, is strongly discouraged. 5. I'm getting too much mail from the list. Is there any way to cut it down? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes. Assuming that you do not want to leave the list altogether, mail the list processor (listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk), subject blank and message body SET MERCEDES-LACKEY MAIL DIGEST If you would prefer not to see copies of anything that you have sent to the list, use the following message body instead; SET MERCEDES-LACKEY MAIL NOACK (Note that these two options are mutually exclusive. To return to normal mail from either of them, use the message body SET MERCEDES-LACKEY MAIL ACK instead.) If you will be absent for some time, you may wish to consider the POSTPONE setting. This is like NOMAIL for lists run under Listserv; you remain subscribed to the list, but do not receive mail from it until you specifically request to start receiving mail again. To do this, send mail to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk with message body SET MERCEDES-LACKEY MAIL POSTPONE - to cancel it, use one of the options above (ACK, NOACK, DIGEST). Do not forget the 'MAIL' part of the command - it won't work without it. 6. I've written this really great story in one of Misty's universes. Should --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I post it to the list? ----------------------- No, please don't. Reliable information (Judith Louvis who runs Queen's Own, the offline Misty fan club), indicates that you MUST get permission from Misty, in writing, before writing fan fiction in Misty's universe(s). Since I, as list owner, have no way to verify that you have received such permission, a decision has been taken not to allow posting of stories on the list. What you do between yourselves is, of course, entirely up to you. The release, however, is not valid for online fiction, only for printed fiction. As far as I am aware (as of 6th July '94) there is no way of getting permission to release fiction in Misty's world(s) online. A copy of the release for printed work is available from the listowner on request (private email; please don't post requests to the list). 7. Who is the list owner, anyway? --------------------------------- All problems, or queries about the running of the list, should be directed at Melanie Dymond Harper; mel-+AT+-herald.co.uk -or- mel-+AT+-servalan.demon.co.uk The second address should only be used if mail to the first address does not get a reply (this most likely means either the site is down for some reason or that I'm away - if the latter, the second address probably won't help either). Do _not_ send problems and such to the list at large. If it's something I've done, or not done, they won't be able to help you! I will try to announce any absences of mine in advance, so that the list members know if problems are likely not to be solved quickly. Any feedback on this post cheerfully received at mel-+AT+-herald.co.uk or mel-+AT+-servalan.demon.co.uk. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (end part 1 of 5) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:13:05 EST From: sage.blackhart-+AT+-juno.com (sage f blackhart) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Abrev. List Message-ID: <19970217.091423.16614.0.Sage.Blackhart-+AT+-juno.com> I could truly use a List of a Abrev. thank you!!! -Blessed Be- Sagey >Notice >~~~~~ >Calling all newbies and all old members of the list, >If you need a copy of the abrevs. used on this mailing list, >Please e-mail me privately at: chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg >I promise to send one to you ASAP >No charges. >Stormwind ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:13:06 EST From: sage.blackhart-+AT+-juno.com (sage f blackhart) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Cc: sage.blackhart-+AT+-juno.com Subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses Message-ID: <19970217.091423.16614.3.Sage.Blackhart-+AT+-juno.com> On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 01:38:28 GMT "David Maginnis" writes: >Hi everyone, > Does anyone think that the gods of Valdemar seem >pretty >weak?. I mean I know they have companions but compared to Karse or >Iftel or >even the Star eyed herself the Gods of Valdemar are'nt mentioned much. > > M oonsight I often hear them in the books, swear oaths to their gods, and I see in some, some action of the Gods, I dont think its that their weak. I think that their gods just arent Actively used . -Blessed Be- Sagey > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 16:19:56 +0100 From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: a braid: rogue bards/GUT/fave bits/was he, wasn't he/ Message-ID: <9702171519.AA24403-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl> hi, thought I'd bestir myself to create a brain (oops, freudian slip of the fingers there, braid I meant!), work has been totally over the top of late, demanding my full attention, damm it! Today I have some time, lucky ol' you! Cennydd wrote (among lots of other stuff) > Yet he [Stefan] never seemed to have a problem with a "rogue gift." No - but then he was scooped up off the streets when he was still a little 'un. Imagine if he hadn't been spotted by Whossername, and had realised that he could make people give him money just by singing? *He* wouldn't have had a problem with a rogue gift, but it could have given him enourmous control over others, and it could have been been put to mean and nasty uses, (seducing normally unwilling partners for example). ============================================= Van's talents: Well, I'm currently trying to develop a Grand Unified Theory for skills in my "world" - individuals think they have a talent for healing, or finding water, or working wood, but it's all based on their ability to read the atomic structures of people they heal, the land they work, or the wood they carve - whatever. A true Master has all Skills, as they come from that same oned ability. My analogy is that some people know a few letters, some can write simple words, some sentences, and the Masters are the Shakespears! Maybe Van can heal himself and others simply because he has a much heightened awareness of his body, by virtue of his other Gifts. You can read english, so, because of the shared ancestry, you can read and understand bits of german, french, ... and if you've got english and italian, then spanish is even clearer, even tho' you don't actually speak it ............. well, you see what I mean .... don't you? ======================================================= Mara wrote: > so wouldn't Talia's Gifts be very similar to Vanyels?in Arrows Flight(/) I > think her gifts all came out at once or something like that when she whent on > internship with Kris.... Eerm - nope. What Talia lost on her internship was any sort of control over the gift she'd always possessed. Nothing "blew her channels open" - 'cept maybe a few romps with Kris, ;> ======================================================= Vickie asked about favourite passages - I think the one that most sticks in my mind is where Firethingy finally looses his grip on life and starts chasing his firebird round his ekele (or whatever) in Valdemar. It was one of the few displays of raw emotion (apart from the great displays of weeping ML is so fond of) in the books. In fact - when else does anyone totally loose their rag - I can't recall any off hand. ======================================================= To MorningStar's argument that Van didn't have the Bardic Gift because he'd have used it when he was posing as Valdir - I don't agree! He needed to be a poor scrawny, put-upon nobody to fit into the low life of wherever the dickens he was (my brain is refusing to supply names today - so what's new?!). If he'd shown or used Bardic Gift, someone would have spotted him and brought him to the attention of the mages. I always thought it was a shame ML didn't follow through the almost relationship he formed with the other minstrel, the one that helped him out. If it had been a movie there'd have been a meeting of the eyes, a hesitation, ........ or the scene in Beautiful Launderette when the punk suddenly hauls the young indian guy into a dark corner and kisses him silly - when I saw that the whole cinema gasped! That short bit read much truer than the story in SoI, or so says all of me. ===================================================== Valdemar's god/s can't be that weak and lilly-livered - they do produce the Companions after all. Hokay - that's me done - greeting to the newcomers, nods to the oldtimers, I sense work gathering for another assault ............ dooie, Esmeralda Evensbane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:48:47 -0600 From: Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-BAYLOR.EDU To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.UK Cc: Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-ccis01.baylor.edu Subject: Re: Letter of introduction Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Feb 1997 04:32:15 +0000 (GMT) mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk wrote: >If it may please the court of Valdemar, I would like to introduce >myself. I am known as Vickie, TWIN2BJ. *whistle* *whistle* *whistle* Huh? Hey, anybody know who this lovely new list member is talking to? Us? Oh. Whoops. Well, I don't know about the court of Valdemar, but WE sure are glad to meet you! :) As a twin, I do not lie about my age but I have been know to >lie about BJs age. I live in the Washington, DC area while BJ lives >in central Texas. Really? I'm from DC, but currently living in central TX (and deliver us from evil, also known as Waco). Where in TX does your twin live? >ObMisty, during my month of lurking, I have not noticed anyone stating >what their favorite passages might be. One of mine is from _WoFury_ >when Firesong destroyed Falconsbane. The quote is 'If he ever comes >back again, it will be as a cloud of gnats!' What an articulate way of >saying, another one bites the dust. Hmmm....my favorite. It HAS to be when Kerowyn first meets the "new and improved" Need in Winds of Fury. I can just see Elspeth prying Kero down from the ceiling....:) Again, nice to meet you, Vickie! Zhai'helleva-- Icewolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:07:35 -0700 (MST) From: chelsea etitameh To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: fave bits (of Esmeralda's) Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl wrote: > Vickie asked about favourite passages - I think the one that most sticks in > my mind is where Firethingy finally looses his grip on life and starts > chasing his firebird round his ekele (or whatever) in Valdemar. It was one > of the few displays of raw emotion (apart from the great displays of > weeping ML is so fond of) in the books. In fact - when else does anyone > totally loose their rag - I can't recall any off hand. > Esmeralda Evensbane um, a little guy by the name of Tylendel ring any bells?? ;) (sheeps for the *SHORT* post) chelsea etitameh chelsea.fischer-+AT+-colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~ccfische caf0001-+AT+-jove.acs.unt.edu http://people.unt.edu/~caf0001 *~*~* love more live more have more give more love *~*~* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:01:14 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses (Iftel) Message-ID: <9702171602.AA05039-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> [Attribution stolen by Goblins] wrote (about Iftellian deity/ies): > Van refers to it as one deity, while Kethry refers to the Wind > Lords(?) (but they could be some kind of mage or priestly organization, > come to think of it). Things will become somewhat clearer when you've read the last _Storm_ book; that reveals a bit more about Iftel, and should give you enough info to start speculating where both Van and Kethry's ideas may have originated from (he said, avoiding spoilers for those that haven't read the book yet..) -- _|_ Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) / | Hemel Hempstead, UK jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \_|_ www.selune.demon.co.uk (soon) \__/ Named Deity of Goblins, Killer Penguins, and Annoying Magic Items ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 13:44:18 -0300 From: "Eleonora Scoseria" To: Subject: RE: a braid Message-ID: Esme wrote: > thought I'd bestir myself to create a brain (oops, freudian slip of > the fingers there, braid I meant!), work has been totally over the > top of late, demanding my full attention, damm it! Today I have some > time, lucky ol' you! Thanks Esme for providing such a nice orderly braid so that I can jump in and add my 0.02. Likewise I have been lurking due to increasing amounts of work . > Cennydd wrote (among lots of other stuff) > > Yet he [Stefan] never seemed to have a problem with a "rogue gift." > and Esme commented: > No - [snip] *He* wouldn't have had a problem with a rogue gift, but it could have > given him enourmous control over others, and it could have been been put to > mean and nasty uses, (seducing normally unwilling partners for example). And I wonder if that woudl qualify as a rogue gift. IMHO, a rogue gift is a gift over which the one who has it, has no conscious control. But if Stef, or any bard for that matter, learned to use the gift even for objectionable purposes, it would not be a rogue gift, just a misused one. Esme also wrote a piece about theories on talents or gifts. > Van's talents: [snip] Maybe Van can heal himself and others simply > because he has a much heightened awareness of his body, by virtue of his > other Gifts. While this theory seems perfectly reasonable, I don't think that is the way things are supposed to work in her world. The way I see it, there seem to be specific channels for different kinds of energy (magical, healing, etc.) and depending on whether they open up or not, you have the gift or only the potential. Apparently some people don't even have the potential, so apparently some don't even have the channels themselves. Inheritance is obviously involved, but I don't think it follows anything that resembles genetics as we know them, and here I am thinking of Jisa, who apparently carries Mage potential from both sides of her family but does not manifest the gift, but will pass it on to her descendants "doubled". I don't have the books with me (since I am busy converting a friend to Misty) but I am referring to MPromise where Van tests Jisa. Can someone find the exact textevd? Vickie asked about favourite passages. Hmm...good question. I guess I have 2 favorites. The passage from OBreakers when the StarEyed heals Kethry (the one that leads to "love must forever live free", and Van's first meeting with Moondance. Esme wrote: > To MorningStar's argument that Van didn't have the Bardic Gift because he'd > have used it when he was posing as Valdir - I don't agree! He needed to > be a poor scrawny, put-upon nobody to fit into the low life of wherever the > dickens he was (my brain is refusing to supply names today - so what's new?!). > If he'd shown or used Bardic Gift, someone would have spotted him and brought > him to the attention of the mages. I agree with Esme that Van would not have used it in that situation in order to avoid attracting attention, but whether a Bardic gift would have been brought specifically to the attention of the mages? I am not sure there is textevd to support the fact that mages might be more sensitive to the Bradic gift than other educated listeners. Does Van recognise the Bardic gift because he is a Mage or because he knows it exists and what it entails? IIRC, when he first listens to Breda during his first day at Bardic, he realises the moment he hears her sing what the gift means, and IIRC, he also realises without needing Breda's confirmation, that he does not have it as soon as *HE* starts singing. Once more I don't have the books handy. Can someone help with that one? This would also argue against Liseth's idea that maybe Van didn't knwo he had it. I hope I am wrong about that, since I *do* like Liseth's idea. The other possible explanation I can think of is Misty forgetting about that, and it tends to ruin the magic for me when the only possible explanation is author error. Esme also wrote: > Valdemar's god/s can't be that weak and lilly-livered - they do produce > the Companions after all. I don't think it is a question of Gods being weak because they don't manifest the way the StarEyed and Vkandis do. After all, the Companions themselves are a permanent physical manifestation from the gods and they are literally all over the place. OK, that's all, I'd better go before my ToDo list grows another 2 notches. One last word: welcome all the new ones and greetings to all the rest *hug*. I miss all of you when I am not posting actively, though I have been skimming as much as I could. Ele Priestess of Karma LotPW Dame of the OAM Assistant to the Chef Adept ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 13:12:30 -0500 (EST) From: Azreil1997-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Fluff/ Gods and Goddesses/ fluff Message-ID: <970217125924_-1776300945-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> A large cloud of dust billows, as the deranged and exhausted one rises from his slumber. Yawning, he turns and shreiks at the long list of posts that he still needs to read. Rousing himself from the warmth of his bed, he stumbles over to the library, and momentarily delurks. ************************************************* maginnis said: >>Does anyone think that the gods of Valdemar seem pretty >>weak JHEFT said: >>it seems that they don't intervene unless they really have to. >>They gave the companions to the heralds cause they knew the >>heralds could handle the problems Markttz said: >>Valemar on the other hand "takes on all >>comers >>I would suspect that when you have a >>nation of many religions none of the gods will really be able >>to have more influence then the others. it seems to me that like all other Dieties, any God(dess) of Valdemar would minimize their direct intervention in the mundane world, and instead promote ingenuity and self-reliance among its beleivers. the presence of companions attests to the power of Valdemar's diety/ dieties, which were created after the Baron (?) Valdemar founded the country--i can't remember which deity he supplicated to, or if there were a multiple of gods Valdemar, in this respect, is very much like the US, b/c both are less homogenous that most of their neighbors. In which there is greater religious variety and freedom. which makes it difficult for there to be any ploitical preference in terms of religion--TINOTW. I re-read AFall this weekend and (sorry no textevd) there was a passage which stated that in times od war the clergy were forbidden to request aid from their dieties ( the gods have their own designs which don't always coincide with what humans want) *********(skip to the next line of asterisks here if you haven't read StormBreaking) the gods of Velgareth in some instances do have a multiple(?) of people who they protect. The Shin'a'in and the Tale'dras both serve the Star-eyed, and presumably the members of White Gryphon do as well since they all resided together before the Cataclysm. the other known sharing of a diety is between Karse and Iftel who both serve V'kandis/ Vykandys (sp?) ********************************** before retiring to his bed once more, the one would like to make a few humble requests: to the gentlefolk of the OAM- I bring myself before thee, and ask to be granted the title of dukess, and vow to uphold the honor of the beloved Vanyel against his slanderers. to mat - for years I have served you dutifully, procrastinating on all school work, though I have only recently discovered thy hallowed name. I desire to join the ranks of your esteemed clergy as an acolyte. though i have worked hard on my skills of procrstination, there is much still that i have to learn. I come bearing a multitude of english, history and religion papers, one in particular was assigned two weeks ago, and at present does not have a title- or a body for that matter. The esteemed High-Priestess Deniz can attest to my qualifications as an acolyte. ambling back to his room, the tired student stirs the dust once more before collasping into his bed. Ashanti ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 13:50:54 +0000 From: "Emily the invisible" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Bardic Gift/Newbie Fest/likability/Tamora Pierce (off topic) Message-ID: <199702171850.KAA09875-+AT+-geocities.com> AUGH!!!!! There was a power flicker, Jade went down, and when she rebooted my desktop was about as screwed up as it can get without being totally destroyed! I also lost the message I was gonna send to the list. Grrr. from memory Cenny said: >I don't know that an unidentified Bardic Gift would have the same >effect on Van's grounding and centering as Talia's unidentified Mind >Gift did.For one thing, it isn't clear that the Bardic Gift and >Healer Gifts are the same genre of gift as the Mage/Mind Gifts What kind of Gift does the Bardic Gift act like? I extrapolated from the "Breda sings Windrider Unchained scene" that it functions as a highly specialized varient of projective Empathy. However, it seems kinda hard to make assumptions because we don't have any of the major details about how a Bard is actually trained (Stef doesn't count cause we only got to see him at the point when most musicians have reached the "forever polishing stage"). None of the "classroom scenes" that contributed to our understanding of mage and Herald training. Deniz, I like the "Solar system theory", and I think it sorta works, but I'm not sure whether or not it applies to Van. In MPrice, he is described as fueling _all_ of his gifts with his Mage Gift. I know this doesn't fit with prior evidence in the series, but it is stated. So if his abilities _do_ work that way, what happens when he accidentally uses a Bardic Gift that in a normal person would be weak, and is completely untrained? Deniz said: >Cen (yeah, I've heard *that* line before, Mister... what's more >important, my poem or your treasured ^H^H^H... procrastination?) Obviously, the procrastination! Doesn't the temple need more tithes? Mine HP continues (about one of my ideas): >*novel* idea, Em! Hmmm... but I still want it to be available as an >e-mail, as well. Not everybody can spend the time to read it >on-line. Has to be availible in email, cause some people don't have web access, and couldn't see it otherwise. _But_, if the ones with web access didn't have to wait to read it, we might not get quite as many "help, I don't understand all this" messages. I could probably code most of the Newbie Fest pretty quickly and email it to you for posting, but I've already promised Dad a "real table" for one of his online columns. Lee said: >I wonder about this word "likeable"--Cen's definition seems to >include not only "likeable once you get to know them," but also >"easy to get to know," which seems to me to be a bit much to ask of >a fiction character. Ah, now I know why Cenny's def. is making me uneasy . Most of the fictional characters I like best are definitely on the "not necessarily easy to get to know" side of the ledger . They may well be likeable once you get to know them, but they aren't easy to get to know. I've finished the two middle Immortals books and I'm _not_ happy. They were OK, but there were a couple of major tellings instead of showings . Good stories, but it felt like she was trying to keep it under a certain word count, and had to resort to telling things to stay under the limit. Some of those things were _important_! She also disappeared a major character with almost no explanation, and did a coupla scenes that were never followed up. Grr. Anybody want to discuss these with me? In private email of course. Emily the invisible Priestess of Procrastination, Computing and Programming Dame of the OAM http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/7726/ ecartier-+AT+-geocities.com (the one in the header bounces) ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1101 **********************************