MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1122

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) anime/Elfquest/Kushner
	by Faranheit-+AT+-aol.com
  2) Short message
	by Mat <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
  3) conspiracy
	by DC Kincaid <angel1-+AT+-oaktree.net>
  4) Re:Last Straw
	by "Dee Nath, & Raven Sheppard" <narwal-+AT+-proaxis.com>
  5) ADMIN: listmistress back, and a brief commercial
	by Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
  6) Re: conspiracy
	by DC Kincaid <angel1-+AT+-oaktree.net>
  7) Re: Misty's Music
	by 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk>
  8) Jay Davidsom/Stargate 
	by 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk>
  9) Barbie dolls/ BG / SoI - to spoil or not to spoil?
	by dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl
 10) Re: Who ya like!!
	by Lydia Hales <psu07362-+AT+-odin.cc.pdx.edu>
 11) Nutters
	by "David Maginnis" <maginnis-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk>
 12) Re: anime/Elfquest/Kushner
	by Jennifer <jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu>
 13) books, shortpost
	by kholder-+AT+-dutch.worc-acad.pvt.k12.ma.us (kali holder)
 14) Re: Animated Movie....
	by MELVIN NEVERGOLD <web5791-+AT+-charweb.org>
 15) Re: animation/wicca/karma/SacredGround
	by MELVIN NEVERGOLD <web5791-+AT+-charweb.org>
 16) JEJ
	by "David Maginnis" <maginnis-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk>
 17) Re: Sword of Ice
	by MELVIN NEVERGOLD <web5791-+AT+-charweb.org>
 18) Re: conspiracy
	by davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker)
 19) Everything except the kitchen sink!
	by Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com
 20) Re: JEJ
	by "Dawn L. Anderson" <anderbdm-+AT+-win.bright.net>
 21) persecution in Valdemar/SB spoiler/Lackey's writing/reincarnation/Barbies
	by "John and Kara Pekar" <jkpekar-+AT+-crosslink.net>
 22) Re: Animated Movie....((fluff-ish))
	by EmiGryphon-+AT+-aol.com
 23) Re:Last Straw
	by Jennifer <jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 01:15:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Faranheit-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: anime/Elfquest/Kushner
Message-ID: <970303011500_719332083-+AT+-emout09.mail.aol.com>

Well, I think it's time to remind people I'm still around.

On an anime movie, I think it would be *great*, as long as it's not
Disney-ish, I didn't go watch Hunchback of Notre Dame, cause it looked so
unreal and childish to me. But if anyone says that I *should*, then I think I
will, and maybe change my opinion. 

I also can't wait to see the Elfquest movie, when it's finally finished,
thank goodness Wendy Pini is doing it, that way, I'm sure it will be
excellent.

And finally, I just wanted to say, I found a new Kushner story today. It's a
short story that takes place in the same world of Swordspoint, but many
decades later, so you won't see the same characters, but I enjoyed it.

See ya around:)

Peony
Dame of the OAM
Lady of the Pink Wand

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 03:32:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Mat <mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>
To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Short message
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.93.970303032756.20198A-100000-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu>

Hey all, this is just a short message I'm sending off before I'm off to
bed.   As the Semi-official Watcher-of-Firebird's-WebSite, I have news.

It  looks to me like Misty won't be writing anymore DT books. The darn
things have caused death threats to her!!!!!  She seems mighty p-o'ed
overall.  And reading Terri Lee's explanation after it, I can't blame
her in the slightest.  Go to Firebird's page, http://www.usa.net/firebird
and go to the Misty link.  Go to "The Last Straw" and see what I'm talking
about.


Another thing.  Something truly frightening. Terrifying even.


Misty and Firebird are making Velgarth Barbie doll clothes.

<scream>

Go to the site, and see "Shin'a'in Esmerelda" and "Herald Ken". 
(as Firemist said to me, "Esme and Cen?  The list is taking over!" <g> )

There's also a dyheli that 'Mist thinks looks like a goat. <g>



Mat
Cat Person, Champion in Green,     |"I raised my head, my arms like lead,
Adept, God of Procrastination      | My heart ablaze once more! 
Heathen #149, and OoUL/L of tLotPW | The Faerie Queen looked down on me, 
mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu         | shaken to the core."
http://ada.hofstra.edu/~mtimme47/  |        -- Heather Alexander


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 04:36:14 -0500
From: DC Kincaid <angel1-+AT+-oaktree.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: conspiracy
Message-ID: <331A9B8D.731F-+AT+-peace.oaktree.net>

Mat wrote:
> Misty won't be writing anymore DT books. The darn
> things have caused death threats to her!!!!! Go to Firebird's page, http://www.usa.net/firebird and go to the Misty link.  Go to "The Last Straw" and see what I'm talking about.

Scary isn't the half of it.  I live in KKK land, home of the Grand
Dragon, Stan Solomon (950AM Indianapolis) and lots of kooks.  These guys
are seeing black helicopters and defending Timothy McVey - the guy who
supposedly blew up the building in Oklahoma City, my friend from Hungary
can only talk about the Jewish Conspiracy, the government is just going
snipe snip snipe at everyone and I've stopped going to Trek cons because
they aren't fun anymore.  I can't handle either the right wingers or the
left wingers fighting the right, and I don't need to go to Trek / B5 etc
cons and meet unwashed, smelly large people who look like squashed
JimTammy Kirks on his fattest day x 32 who wear stretched out Trek
uniforms and think they really are in the Fleet!  Now, I admit that I've
gone to New Orleans and looked (casually) around for Lestat, but wow! 
People are NUTS!!!  I make a suggestion - with the newest millenium
approaching, let us make a pact to do away with all politicos, religions
and groups that preach hatred and teach the golden rule to all men. 
What was true 2000 years ago is still true.  You can love and be loved
by all manner of mankind, it just takes a little work and sacrifice. 
Let us make a true conspiracy of people that want to work towards a
truly better, freer world.  Sign up at my web address, Mulder and
Sculley are invited.  If you don't think I'm serious, let's give it a
name... Um  "Wings Over the World" and see if it shows up on the right
wing nutball BBS and talk shows in a few months!!!  

Fast Fashion   /   angel1-+AT+-oaktree.net  /  Wings Over the World!

mobilis in mobili

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 01:58:25 -0800
From: "Dee Nath, & Raven Sheppard" <narwal-+AT+-proaxis.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re:Last Straw
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970303095825.0066de3c-+AT+-proaxis.com>

Hello!  Well I enjoy getting lost in a fantasy as well as anyone I know.  It
amazes me that people can take getting lost even farther than I can.  I
wrote that Misty's magic works in my rituals, but that dosen't mean I'm
making her my High Priestess either. (She'd have to give personal and
private permission for something like that;-) ) Reality is.  My world doesnt
include forcing someone in to my mould.  No matter how much I love,am
scared,uplifted,inspired by,dosen't give me permission to go running amok in
somebody elses life.  Like M.L. says "get a life,spine,clue.         
        Well as you can tell,people mucking about personal lives is a
soapbox issue for me. Whether it's Mercedes Lackey,mine,or my bosses.
   Talk to ya later,
        Raven


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:19:08 GMT
From: Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
To: mercedes-lackey
Subject: ADMIN: listmistress back, and a brief commercial
Message-ID: <199703031019.KAA15404-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>

I'm now back in the office for this week. Trawling through the mail that piles
up when you're away for a few days takes a while, though, so if you've sent
me mail to lackey-owner-+AT+-... expect a less-than-instant response. (If it's
something I _must_ see now, send the mail to me at mel-+AT+-herald.co.uk instead.)


On a rather different note, due to a slight cockup on my part I now find myself
with two hardback copies of _Firebird_. If anyone wants one, I'd be willing to
let it go for a discount; say ten pounds plus postage, whatever that might
be. (New price probably about 15 or 16 pounds.) First come, first served.

(US folks would probably not find this much cheaper than they can get anyway,
to be honest. UK folks will get the best deal due to cheap postage; other
Europeans may or may not want it.)


Mel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 05:51:13 -0500
From: DC Kincaid <angel1-+AT+-oaktree.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: conspiracy
Message-ID: <331AAD21.992-+AT+-peace.oaktree.net>

> Fast Fashion   /   angel1-+AT+-oaktree.net  /  Wings Over the World!
> 
> mobilis in mobili

http:/www.oaktree.net/angel1

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 11:56:57 +0100
From: 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Misty's Music
Message-ID: <29FE5FF7E7B-+AT+-ghondr.mmu.ac.uk>

I have one thing to say:-
"Herald's Cread"
I cringed when I heard that one, it was like an Austrian beer song.
[Sweeping generlization I know]. Did anyone else get the image in 
their heads of a load of Heralds raising a jug of beer in one hand 
and swinging it back and forth in front of them while they were 
singing.

I grant you some of the songs are good but that one caused us to 
bust a gut at the gathering of " OutKingdom" [UK chapter of Q.O.]


 
************************************************
Zha'hai'allav'a
Kalen Shena Vuysher'edras 
Kal'enedral [OIB](AKA Jason Stokes)
95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk
"If we shadows have offended, think but this and 
all is mended. That you have but slumbered here
While these visions did appear".
 *Puck, Midsummer Nights Dream*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:40:52 +0100
From: 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Jay Davidsom/Stargate 
Message-ID: <2A0A285408D-+AT+-ghondr.mmu.ac.uk>

> Michele wrote in reply:-
> 
> 
> >and may I mention, 1) Jay is a BOY
> >		2) A WHITE BOY
> >		3) and just CANNOT BE TARMA...:)
> 
> Just out of curiosity, why should any of these points
> exclude Jay Davidson?  Tarma is whipcord lean, flat
> chested, pretty much sexless.  She is hawk-nosed, golden
> skinned, with black hair.  Unless I'm entirely wrong, 
> (which I freely admit, has happened many, many times:})
> wasn't it Jay Davidson who played Ra in Stargate?  If so,
> his face stays in my mind as golden, hawkish, and memorable.
> If it wasn't Jay Davidson...then whoever it _was_ who played
> Ra would be fantastic as Tarma:)  
> 
> WTTW,
Yes Jay did play Ra in Stargate and a very good job he did too.
On the point of Stargate, did anyone else think they got through the 
gate to quickly? The movie was good but if it had been 15-20 mins 
longer and Kurt Russels character had been developed more it would 
have been a great movie.

> I just wanted to make sure that I had made clear, I'm
> Voting Johnny Depp for Vanyel..
> uhm...okasy...
> 
> 
> -Blessed Be-
> Sagey
Once again NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Just MHO 

************************************************
Zha'hai'allav'a
Kalen Shena Vuysher'edras 
Kal'enedral [OIB](AKA Jason Stokes)
95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk
"If we shadows have offended, think but this and 
all is mended. That you have but slumbered here
While these visions did appear".
 *Puck, Midsummer Nights Dream*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Mar 97 17:00:15 +0100
From: dbackhau-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Barbie dolls/ BG / SoI - to spoil or not to spoil?
Message-ID: <9703031600.AA18388-+AT+-isou10.estec.esa.nl>

Greetings,

Mat wrote, of the Firebird site,
> Go to "The Last Straw" and see what I'm talking about.
Tsk tsk, what a wordy, inefficient rant - I lost interest after about 
the 7th paragraph. My  impression was how unprofessional of
her. She's meant to be a writer, someone who can use language efficiently. 
She isn't there.  However,  I then went to 

> Go to the site, and see "Shin'a'in Esmerelda" and "Herald Ken". 

?????????????????????????????????? What has *happened* to the woman?
To take my name in vain, and in such a naff manner - I mean 
<deepest contempt mode> *Barbie* dolls????? </deepest contempt mode> I 
mean, where does she think her fan base comes from - kindegarten?
(You have to imagine the voice spiralling up in indignation here!)
Sheesh, it's almost enough to make me go find another name, 'cept
I've got kinda attached to Esmeralda. Ah well, at least I can say with
total truth and pride that I have never, owned a Sindy or a Barbie, (or 
a Ken for that matter, ;> ), nor am I likely to. 

=========================================================
Bevie asked:
> Obmisty:  Something has been bothering me ever since I read Black
> Gryphon again.  In order for Skan to find Kechara, he had to go into
> Urtho's library, and through the other door.  This wasn't open to just
> anyone.  (Since Cinnabar (?) had to send a written request up to the
> tower a few days in advance to get in.)  So how did Conn Leavy just
> waltz in and find Kechara?  <snip>  If Skan and Cinnabar
> (who were his most trusted people) didn't know about her, how to Conn,
> who was just a mercenary mage know?

Sneaky skullduggery? Machievelian machinations? Treacherous trickery?
Dastardly deeds? Evil evasions? Porky pies? Eeerm, I'm running out here <g>. 
Why does Gollum suddenly pop into my head, "Sneaky tricksy hobbits" or words 
to that effect! I reckon Conn was a sneaky tricksy mage.
=======================================================

Chantal/Aerden was commenting, apporopos SoI:
> So far I think the story about the Herald trapped in the mine cave-in is 
> the best one of the lot. Right now I'm in the middle of the one about the 
> arsonist who set the theatre on fire.

An'  Crys wrote:
> Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I thought SoI was still in spoiler 
> mode...??

Maybe just the incey-wincey-tiniest bit - I mean how is anything spoilt 
by what Chantal/Aerden wrote. Also, SoI was dumped straight into mass
circulation paperback, as far as I can make out - it's even in the tiny
"Engelse Fantasy" section in my local Dutch bookshop. So it's not like the
novels that spend sodding months, or is it years, in hardback, then large
format paperback, so that the parsimonious likes of me still haven't read 
the third Storm book.

All reaction, and no action - ah well, it's been a busy day,

dooie, 
Esmeralda (with an "a") Evensbane
Totally unrelated to all anatomically impossible dolls.
 



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 08:26:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Lydia Hales <psu07362-+AT+-odin.cc.pdx.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Who ya like!!
Message-ID: <Pine.PTX.3.91.970303082202.4165A-100000-+AT+-odin.cc.pdx.edu>



On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Megan Schreiber wrote:

> At 07:04 PM 2/28/97 +0000, you wrote:
> 
> >I made this comment. :) I agree that the animated movies of late are 
> >really quite incredible, but I still don't think that these books would 
> 
> What kind of animated movies are you thinking about? If you're talking about
> animated movies on the level of Don Bluth or Disney, then no, I don't think
> it should be animated. That would be an absolute mess. I mean,
> imagine..."Arrow's Flight, the new Disney musical..." *shudder* Anime might
> work, though. I've seen some really incredible stuff with anime. And you
> could never find the 'perfect' actor for the part. If the characters are
> drawn, they would look a lot more like they're supposed to.

>> Well, perhaps not a *musical* as such, but don't you think it would be 
neat to have Misty's music as part of the movie?  _My Lady's Eyes_, and 
particularly _Herald's Lament_ on the passing of Kris.  Since I doubt one 
could find a "perfect" live actor for some of the parts (such as 
Griffons), amination might be a reasonable solution. (Notthat I'm against 
a live movie, but I think that amination should be considered.)

> 
> >Cindy Meeks wrote:
> >> That sounds like a great idea but... didn't I hear that JEJ died a few
> >> months ago?
> 
> Nope, didn't hear that one. I certainly hope it's yet another false rumor,
> though.
> 

>. I haven't heard anything about that either.

> 
>>Lady Lydia
   

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 16:51:17 -0000
From: "David Maginnis" <maginnis-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk>
To: "lackey" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Nutters
Message-ID: <199703031650.QAA21230-+AT+-excalibur.netcom.net.uk>

Hi everyone,
                  It is a great shame when someone who provides so much
enjoyment is threatened in this way. As Misty says in her message on the
firbird site , she is'nt writing non fiction and in my opinion the people
who think she is are REALLY SAD !!! .
I just hope it does'nt put her of writing all together although you could
understand if it did.

                                 Moonsight

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 12:46:49 -0600
From: Jennifer <jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: anime/Elfquest/Kushner
Message-ID: <199703031750.LAA80134-+AT+-audumla.students.wisc.edu>

At 06:37 AM 3/3/97 GMT, Peony wrote:
>On an anime movie, I think it would be *great*, as long as it's not
>Disney-ish, I didn't go watch Hunchback of Notre Dame, cause it looked so
>unreal and childish to me. But if anyone says that I *should*, then I think I
>will, and maybe change my opinion. 
>

Actually, I was pleasantly suprised with Hunchback. Sure they changed the
ending...it's a Disney movie, but it was definately NOT a children's movie. The 
sexual overtones and the themes they dealt with were not at all childish. I
think Disney has been moving towards the adult market slowly but surely the
past 
couple of years. This being said, I still worry about Disney messing with
the stories
if they did the Valdemar series.

Anime might do it, but it also has the ability to be very jerky and
disjointed if not done well. 

>I also can't wait to see the Elfquest movie, when it's finally finished,

I love ElfQuest, and I can't wait =)
I started _Dragonseye_ yesterday. Thank you to everyone who recommended I
get it!
I have all the other Pern books, and I just couldn't wait patiently for it
in paperback.

Obmisty: I lack the ability to go on the web at the moment... could somelone
please send me privately and tell me what Misty said in "The Last Straw"
about DT? I really want to know now. I have a very personal interest.

Zhai'helleva,
Lady Guenevere
Knight-errant of the OAM
Witch and Keeper of Gargoyles
Mistress of fire-lizards and Dragons

"A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean
your mother"~ anonymous

jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:52:52 -0400
From: kholder-+AT+-dutch.worc-acad.pvt.k12.ma.us (kali holder)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: books, shortpost
Message-ID: <v01530500af407a1d6f74-+AT+-[146.115.204.50]>

New books I haven't read!!!!!!!!!!!
Could whoever is out there PLEASE tell me about the new Pern book, please
and by the way I liked the Gatti books too.

sorry for the extremely short post,
Shadowsong



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:03:28 -0500 (EST)
From: MELVIN NEVERGOLD <web5791-+AT+-charweb.org>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Animated Movie....
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970303130259.25116C-100000-+AT+-wilbur>

I'd hope to maintain the story line:




On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, DC Kincaid wrote:

> MELVIN NEVERGOLD wrote:
> Honestly a Misty movie would be better off as
> > a live action movie or even a tv mini series than as an anime release.
> > Also if you have noticed anime video sales prices that they are much
> > higher on average than those that have enjoyed theatherical release.
> 
> Oh yes, let us make a TV mini-series!  Hmm, Van would not be gay, only
> confused, his best friend 'Lendel would be deranged because of abuse by
> his twin (letting him partake in a sexual mind-meld) and Lassie can play
> Van's Companion.  Pierce Brosnan will play Leareth, Axl Rose can play
> Starwind, and we'll have cameo appearances by Katherine Hepburn (Savil),
> Jonathan Frakes (Withen) and William Shatner as one of the Court, say,
> um, the defense minister or whatever he is called. Asteroids will be the
> main problem not some deranged wizard (who as Brosnan would be merely
> misunderstood), and of course Lassie will save Van in the end, just as
> he is about to call Final Strike, Lassie will knock him down, the
> lightning will cause an avalanche and bury the evil demonic army under
> tons of radioactive asteroid debris then Lassie will be swept into a
> raging flood and presumed dead until after the next commercial.  Van
> will marry some woodsman's daughter and settle in the Forest of Sorrows
> with Lassie and Barbie (the woodsman's daughter) to defend the border
> and Steph will become a successful singer and playwrite based at the
> royal court and travelling occasionally to help the poor.  
> 
> Right, no TV please!
> 
> Fast Fashion ; www.oaktree.net/angel1
> 
> mobilis in mobili
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:06:21 -0500 (EST)
From: MELVIN NEVERGOLD <web5791-+AT+-charweb.org>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: animation/wicca/karma/SacredGround
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970303130514.25116D-100000-+AT+-wilbur>

the shin'a'in goddress has four ascepts hence a four in one goddess.
not a single goddess so to speak.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:09:06 -0000
From: "David Maginnis" <maginnis-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk>
To: "lackey" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: JEJ
Message-ID: <199703031808.SAA28688-+AT+-lancelot.netcom.net.uk>

Hi Everyone,
                   According to a fan website James Earl Jones is still
alive and kicking. He is currently working on a tv history documentary.

                                      Moonsight

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:08:00 -0500 (EST)
From: MELVIN NEVERGOLD <web5791-+AT+-charweb.org>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sword of Ice
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970303130729.25116E-+AT+-wilbur>

"Sword of Ice"  info please
web5791-+AT+-charweb.org

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:55:24 -0800
From: davidt-+AT+-cet.com (D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: conspiracy
Message-ID: <VJwGzwHqhJcI088yn-+AT+-cet.com>

DC Kincaid <angel1-+AT+-oaktree.net> wrote:
>Mat wrote:
>> Misty won't be writing anymore DT books. The darn
>> things have caused death threats to her!!!!! Go to Firebird's page, http://www.usa.net/firebird and go to the Misty link.  Go to "The Last Straw" and see what I'm talking about.

OBnoises about the decline and fall of civilzation. 8-{)#


>Scary isn't the half of it.  I live in KKK land, home of the Grand
>Dragon, Stan Solomon (950AM Indianapolis) and lots of kooks.  These guys
>are seeing black helicopters and defending Timothy McVey - the guy who
>supposedly blew up the building in Oklahoma City, my friend from Hungary
>can only talk about the Jewish Conspiracy, the government is just going
>snipe snip snipe at everyone 

The part of this sort of reasoning that always amazes me is that these 
people actually seem to believe that it's possible for hundreds of folk
to be involved in this wierdness with out anybody finding out! I figured
out before I was 10 years old that if three people know something it isn't
a secret anymore!!!! And the idea that the government can keep secrets 
is even more laughable. I mean, they can't even hide thier tawdry little 
affairs much less grrand plots to kill JFK or MLK or the like!

If I were rich I'd love to buy a helicopter, paint it black and go hover 
around the Aryan Nations compound in Idaho and other nut groups hangouts
just to spook 'em. My wife thinks I'm very immature for wanting to do this.
I think it would be a blast!

OBMisty: Outside of AotQ, we havn't seen much about the treatment of 
minority groups in Valdemar, have we? Don't you think that there would
have been some peabrains who blamed the Hardonian refuges for all the 
problems Ancar caused?

And what do the conspiracy theorists in Valdemar see hovering over their 
"secret" componds? Unmarked Black Gryphons?

David Tiffany, Glod of tiptops


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 14:24:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Glithoniel-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Everything except the kitchen sink!
Message-ID: <970303142236_951978635-+AT+-emout10.mail.aol.com>

Heyla list pals!!  A lot of this is from old digests.  I'd hoped to be up to
date today but work called me in early.  Anyway, this isn't as polished as I
would like.  So, here goes:

******
Kara wrote:  >>Apropos of what people don't like, has anyone else noticed
that several perfectly good (and a few not-so-good) books have been somewhat
spoiled by
fizzled or overly-quick endings?<<

I agree that some end too fast.  The converse is always true.  I've always
thought that the Mage Storm series should have been a duology or even a large
single novel.  Too many main characters are left foundering, and the story
drags out over dull plot lines.
******* 
Kerellsen said:  >>(Rejoicing that I'm no longer an adolescent!)<<  
I can only say amen!  Apologies to the teen agers on the list, but I wouldn't
be your age again for any money.   
*******  
Crys wrote:  >>Forgive me if I sound truly witchy, but whoever said looks are
all that 
counted??? IMHO, should the Valdemar series be made into a movie, I  would
much prefer someone who can truly act and bring to life the characters as
opposed to someone who just has a nice...set of elbows.<<

You've got an excellent point there!  I've actually seen it done.  Derek
Jacobi plays
Brother Cadfael on the Mystery series based on Ellis Peters Cadfael books.
 In the books, Cadfael is described as stocky and thick.  Derek Jacobi is
neither yet now when I read Cadfael, Jacobi's character is the one in my
mental eye.  It could work.  
BTW--why not Nana Visitor for Talia?
*******
Fast Fashion queried:  >>Even in Valdemar there is prejudice, but why?  What
the bleeping expletive deleted is so threatening about sex?<<

Instinctively we all fear what we don't know or understand.  How do you think
racial
prejudice(on all sides of the coin) has existed so long?  Until a person is
willing to
overcome their prejudices intellectually, then they can never overcome the
gut reaction of "x is different, therefore x must be hostile.  Get x before
he/she gets you!!!"  Most people, even the fairly intelligent ones, are
blockheads(I refuse to insult the intelligence of pigs!) who refuse to see
that underlying the surface we are all humans!
******
hth wrote:  >>Gilthoniel: Sure, I love *speculating* about things when I have
no proof
that they exist.  Jeez, I'm a fantasy writer; it's what I *do.* But playing
around with the possibility is different from categorically believing that
something is real when you've seen no proof.  That kind of thing leads to all
kinds of weirdness, from end-of-the-world cults to people spending hundreds
of dollars a month on phone psychics.  In God we trust -- everyone else pays
cash <weg><<

Ah!  Light dawns!  I read you wrong before.  No, one has to be practical in
the face of
cult types.  I gave up following anybody or anything blindly at the age of 12
or so. 
Besides psychics I can buy, but psychics over the telephone?  Puh-lease!!
Anybody who believes it can come to me in case they're short of  mules' eggs
<weg>.

*******
I don't know who started the favorite scene thing but I have three.  The
first is when
Vanyel walks into the room at Forst Reach and turns to see Stef locking the
door behind him.  The second is the description of Darkwind's first encounter
with Treyvan.  The third is when Shelyra comes leaping out of the shadows and
slams the Gideon Sword into Apolon's chest in Tiger Burning Bright.  I don't
care who wrote the scene--Lackey's name is on the cover so she had part in
it.  God, its beautiful!!!!  You guys have got to read TBB!
*******
GB said:  >>For Dirk..mnn some one who is not handsome yet lovable...How
about the guy that Plays Ned, on Ned and Stacey....He's already tall and
funny....<<
And if I recall correctly, he has the right coloring as well!  Good call!  I
was sitting here racking my brains for unlovely movie stars that weren't
outright villans!  Or perhaps Kenneth Brannaugh if he were taller.
*******
Icewolf wrote:  >>I figure maybe a 10-15 year difference in Selenay's and
Talia's ages. That would put Selenay at 23-28 when Talia arrived in Haven,
but if she got married  at around 18 or 19 and had Elspeth soon after, that's
not so hard to believe.<<

Sounds reasonable to me.  Thirties is laughable in the Winds series.  If
Elspeth is 20-
24(and I agree with Kory reasoning in the time line Esme reposted for us).
 Then Seleny would have had to be 10 or younger.  Somehow child marriages
just don't seem to be the Valdemar thing.<G>  The youngest I would accept for
Seleney would be 39.  That would put her as having Elspeth at 15.  No she
must be in mid to late 40s.  Still in her prime by anybody's standards!
*******
Lady Guenevere said:  >>If I ever find someone I want to spend the rest of my
life with, I would much rather have us be two individuals who love each other
and live in harmony rather than two pieces of one whole.<<
It works both ways.  I've been married 7 1/2 years now.  We are two
individuals who love each other and live in relative harmony(everybody has
fights or have falling outs from time to time).  But we are also two pieces
of one whole.  He complements and completes me and I do the same for him.  We
are a team.  That doesn't mean that we have a pshycic connection(although we
have started finishing each others sentences but all old married folk do
that!<G>).  We just read each other very well.  
I wouldn't trade my marriage for a lifebond.  I'm too independant to by tied
by my soul to another human being.  I would still be missing a part of myself
if he were to die.  But I would be able to go on.  I wouldn't slit my wrists
or stop eating or jump from a roof.  (Of course I don't believe in suicide.
 I'm more of the "rage, rage against the dying of the light" sort<G>).  I'd
grieve and get on with life.   

BTW love your sig file quote<G>
*********
On the casting issue, I'll add my vote for Michael Praed for Vanyel.  I've
never seen Robin of Sherwood but I've seen a picture of Praed.  He looks like
he stepped right out of one of Jody Lee's drawings!  Hubby, on the other
hand, thinks William Baldwin would make a good Vanyel--looks wise.

*******
Shadowsong:  >> Has anyone considered having an animated movie?  All right, I
know it sounds like kids stuff but the magic and the characters would be a
lot more like the book<<
Not a bad idea actually.  It could even be down with computer generation.
 With all the advances in technology, that shouldn't be hard.  It also
shouldn't be more expensive than the all-star cast we've been picking<G>.
 Then of course we have to figure what actors speak the parts--a whole other
level of casting that<weg>.
*******
To the God of Procrastination and all of his following I wish a blessed
Procrastination
Week.  Why do today what can be put off just another day!   May the
celebrations of your holy week be most profitable.  
*******
Kara said of the later Velgarth books:  >>Characterization hasn't been as
consistent, there is a fair amount of telling mixed in, and it often seems as
though whole sections have been rushed through, or minor stories expanded, so
that the smooth flow of the narrative is interrupted.<<  
I agree with your statements and I suspect I know why.  It takes time to
develope a trully rounded character.  As the writer grows older the
characters mature(I ought to know I've been piddling about with the same
novel for eight years now.) or change.  I suspect that when Misty first got
published she had a whole stock of well developed characters and storylines.
 Instead of building off that base and giving the stories time to grow(no not
forever but a little longer than the current 6 month turn around time!), she
rushes headlong into new plotlines.  That is why the newer books are less
consistent, IMO.  The plotlines are put together anyhow without giving them
time to mature.  All the Velgarth books since Winds of Change and Black
Gryphon should have been set aside to cure a little then put through another
rewrite--especially the Mage Storm books.
*******
Stories I'd like to see done:  The Vanyel adventures on the Karsite
border--how he got the titles of Shadowstalker and Demonsbane.  Vanyel's
internship.  I'd also like to see more of Urtho and the war with Ma'ar.  More
with Talia and Seleney.  I'd love a chance to read about the Tedrel wars.
 Savil's younger days.  There is just reams of material--not only around the
told stories but in the huge gaps between.  I could go on and on!!!!!
*******
That's all for now.  Quite enough I'm sure.  Toodles!!

Glithoniel
Mistress of Willowhawk, Goddess of Tardiness, Lady of the Pink Wand

"Enjoy life!  This is not a dress rehersal!"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 14:30:02 -0600
From: "Dawn L. Anderson" <anderbdm-+AT+-win.bright.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: JEJ
Message-ID: <331B34CA.6054-+AT+-win.bright.net>

>                 According to a fan website James Earl Jones is still
> alive and kicking. He is currently working on a tv history documentary.
> 
You mean you thought he was dead?!!!!!

Dawn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 15:31:19 -0500
From: "John and Kara Pekar" <jkpekar-+AT+-crosslink.net>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: persecution in Valdemar/SB spoiler/Lackey's writing/reincarnation/Barbies
Message-ID: <199703032033.PAA15220-+AT+-nessie.crosslink.net>

Hi everyone!  And thank you to everyone who got the message about multiple
short messages.  I was away all weekend, and It was still a lot easier to
get through my mail today.

On March 1, Kawryathen (Forever Waiting) said:
>People in Valdemar are not persecuted because they are different ...<snip>

That's the law, and that would be the ideal, but in point of fact, it isn't
true.  *Groups* of people are not persecuted by policy (for example,
neither the ex-Karsite Holderkin nor Mero's people (who believe in the One)
are persecuted because of their beliefs or lifestyle.)
Individuals, on the other hand, *can* sometimes be subject to persecution,
or at least predjudice -- not officially, and not if the Heralds can help
it, but it does happen.  It's clear in AotQ, when Talia realizes that Keren
and Ylsa are lovers, that even other Heralds are uncomfortable with
homosexuality.  (Textevd: "As for Keren -- Talia was one of the few people
sh'e ever met, even in the Heraldic Circle, who was willing to accept her,
her relationship with Ylsa, and all that this implied, without judgement.
// Most Heralds liked and admired Keren, but many were uneasy about getting
to close to her, as if her preferences were some kind of stain that might
rub off on them."  AotQ, chapt. 10 [p. 172 in SFBC 3-in-1 edition.)  It's
also made clear in MP that "Tylendel's" preferences aren't acceptable, and
that should Vanyel reveal his own homosexuality before he comes of age, his
father could forcibly turn him over to an Order which would attempt to
"purify" him.  (Textevd: Savil says, "There are, I'm sorry to say, several
sects who hold that _shay'a'chern_ are tainted.  They'd be only too happy
to 'purify' you for Withen and Withen's gold.  And under the laws of this
kingdom, none of us could save you from them."  MP, chapt. 5, SFBC ed. of
LHM, p. 104.)  Savil's words make it clear: Groups are protected from
persecution (and even interference?) by law, but individuals within those
groups are not protected from the practices and beliefs of that group, even
if those practices and beliefs involve predjudice or persecution of the
individual. 


*****************************Storm Breaking
Spoiler**************************************

On ??, Emily the Invisible wrote (re ML, and why some books haven't seemed
as good recently):

>She wants to write stories about extrordinary things, and never mind about
the >circumstances. I think in a way, this is the heart of the problems
with some of her 
>latest books. She's got so many extrordinary things going on, that it all
seems >ordinary and loses it's impact. 

I agree...I felt that the climactic moments of SR and SB fell flat.  These
are the moments when the crew in Urtho's Tower trigger one of his weapons
to counter the storms. (I hope I'm correctly remembering which of the 3
books that happened in!) First of all, I thought it was repetitive to
resort to essentiall the same solution each time.  I also found it hard to
be really involved, and to *feel* the suspense and fear and excitement.  I
was actually a little baffled when I discovered that Florian, Need, and the
Avatars hadn't survived the second weapon, because it wasn't "real" enough.
 Perhaps it was told, rather than shown?  She has written about cataclysmic
and even less cataclysmic events that have left me tense and shaking, but
recently, the extraordinary has lost its punch in some of her writing.

****************************************end
spoiler*********************************************
Emily the invisible also said (re Misty's writing):

>In addition, she is writing so quickly (3-4 books of 400 pages ea. is more
than any >author I know of) that she loses all chance for revisions. 

I think that's true too; her writing in LHM and V&H was more detailed, with
better word choice and more finely crafted scenes, than it has been
recently.  Some of her books, notably BTS and Bardic Voices: L&W, gave that
polished, finely-crafted sense in the beginning, but lost it somewhere in
the second half. 



On Mar. 1, Chantal/Aerden wrote:

>If you have a 'noticeable' enough soul a deity will intervene in your
reincarnation and (at >least for the Heralds and the Sword-Sworn) determine
its course.  

I got the distinct impression that Heralds were given the choice: to go on
to the Havens, or to become a Companion.  Vanyel says as much when he tells
Stefan how he became part of the Forest of Sorrows.   Companions may get
the choice to return as Heralds, as well; that is suggested by An'desha's
conversation with Florian at the end of SB (she says, avoiding a spoiler as
well as she can!)   It may even be that Heralds can choose to go to the
Havens and return as a Companion at a later date (maybe when they've had a
little rest?!)  Both Savil and Jaysen [appear to] return as Companions in
BTS, which is *considerably* after their deaths in MPrice and MPromise,
respectively.  Vanyel's friend Tantras "comes back" sooner, as Kris's
Companion Tantris (at least, I suspect so, given the name similarity, so
like Savil/Sayvil.)

Anyway, it doesn't look to me as though the Valdemaran deities "determine"
the course of a Herald's reincarnation, as much as they offer a choice.  Of
course, since we don't have any information (that I know of) on non-Herald,
non-Swordsworn reincarnations, we don't have any way to know whether the
"general population" is offered some choice, as well.

I'm sure the whole reincarnation thing has been done to death, but has
there been any speculation on why some Companions decline to give their
name, and instead allow their Heralds to name them?  I've been supposing
that it occurs when a Companion's Heraldic name might have been too recent
or too well-known to risk using even a slight variation on it.  I mean, the
cat -- er, horse -- would probably have been out of the bag if Vanyel *had*
reincarnated as a Companion.  "Vanial" or even "Vayniel" would have been a
little close for comfort, given the widespread fame of his real name.  Even
Savil/Sayvil is cutting it fine if her name shows up in any songs -- but
then, she's a stubborn, no-nonsense type anyway, who doesn't seem to hold
with the various "mysteriousnesses" the Companions see fit to shroud
themselves in.  And of course, Companions aren't above a little
"reprogramming" when it suits them.  Ever since I read SW, I've wondered
how long it took Laylan to cause Rubrik to forget Ulrich's comparison of
Firecats and Companions.  ("Obviously, they are exactly like your
Companions, except that there are fewer of them.  I assume that is because
there are fewer deceased Sons than there are deceased Heralds."  SW, hc
edition, p. 114-115) 


I haven't had a chance to read "The Last Straw" on the Firebird website
yet, so I'm reserving comment.  But on the subject of Barbies -- aaargh! 
Ugh!  Yuck!  And I haven't even *seen* the things yet!  The mere idea makes
my skin crawl.  Apologies to those who love and/or collect Barbie dolls,
but they have always seemed to me to be demeaning to women.  When I was a
child, I refused to have a Barbie, because *no-one* could possibly have
breasts like that!  (Now I know it's the waist and legs that are really
unrealistic!)  Anyway, it bothers me that someone who writes strong,
individual, definitely-not-just-a-pretty-face characters would allow
"character dolls" based on a doll which epitomizes a sexist image of women.
 Just my opinion.



This is probably way too long already, and I've been putting off everything
else I have to do for too long, so I guess I'd better wrap it up...Thanks
for the comments about chava, everyone!  

Kara
"So many books, so little time"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 17:46:28 -0500 (EST)
From: EmiGryphon-+AT+-aol.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Animated Movie....((fluff-ish))
Message-ID: <970303173134_-1507047565-+AT+-emout19.mail.aol.com>

In a message dated 97-03-01 16:36:17 EST, Fast Fashion writes:

<< Oh yes, let us make a TV mini-series!  Hmm, Van would not be gay, only
 confused, his best friend 'Lendel would be deranged because of abuse by
 his twin (letting him partake in a sexual mind-meld) and Lassie can play
 Van's Companion ... Van will marry some woodsman's daughter and settle in
the Forest of Sorrows with Lassie and Barbie (the woodsman's daughter) to
defend the border and Steph will become a successful singer and playwrite
based at the
royal court and travelling occasionally to help the poor.  

Right, no TV please!>>

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A PILE of your
favorite flavored sheep to you!!!!!!!!!!!! But it's so true, unfortunately,
about what they'll put on TV. :( Let's hope it'll get better. Yeah right. 
~*Ashkeiryana


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 18:14:11 -0600
From: Jennifer <jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re:Last Straw
Message-ID: <199703032317.RAA15936-+AT+-audumla.students.wisc.edu>

First off, thank you to everyone who sent me the "Last Straw" over email.
I appreciate it much and gift you all with the sheep of your choice.

I now feel free to comment...<G>. I think she was a little vehement, but she
has a point. I don't understand why people choose to ignore the fact that
something is fiction. Ok, I am pagan and I appreciated her treatment of
Wicca in the Diana Tregarde books. This does not mean that I think Guardians
exist, nor does it mean that I believe her DT books are reality. I read them
the way I would look at a movie. Admittedly, the movie I'm going to use as
an example was a terrible one, but take The Craft. I went to see that movie
knowing I was seeing Hollywood's depiction, and FICTION. A friend of mine
said to me as we left the theatre, "I don't know about you, but I levitate
at least a foot higher than that."  ;) The movie was really bad (and unless
you're planning on doing MST3K, I don't reccommend it), but we knew it was
just fiction. Then all these scary little junior high Craft wannabes started
coming out of the woodwork. I don't blame ML for getting freaked out.

Yeah, part of me always wanted to be Di Tregarde, but part of me always
wanted to be Alanna, Lestat, Talia,  and Kero too. A mark of a good
character is being able to identify with them. At the same time, it scares
me that someone could actually decide that (s)he was that character. <shudder>

At the same time, I think that she should re-examine why her DT books aren't
selling. I don't think it's because there is no market for occult fiction.
Llewelyn's occult fiction books do quite well in fact. I think they don't
sell because people picked up the wrong book to start. Children of the Night
was great. Burning Water was ok. Jinx High kind of sucked. The series
doesn't say "Bk 1, bk 2, bk3". If I picked up Jinx High having not read the
other two, I would of assumed they were all bad and not bothered. I don't
mind her writing for money. Hell, I'm trying to get paid for it too. I just
wish that she would consistently give us good writing for our money. While I
would like another DT book, I would settle for her just re-writing Jinx High.

Just my opinion......

Khala il rede he,
Lady Guenevere
Knight-errant of the OAM
Witch and Keeper of Gargoyles
Mistress of fire-lizards and Dragons

"A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean
your mother"~ anonymous

jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu


------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1122
**********************************