MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1127 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Just for awhile by "CHRISTY GOLDBACH" 2) SilverG/musical instruments/The Last Straw by kkwilson-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Ken Wilson) 3) Formal Temporary Farewell by myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao) 4) Barbie (don't read if you're sick of this thread) by "John and Kara Pekar" 5) fluff/Karsite music/karma stuff/SoI spoiler by ecartier-+AT+-mail.geocities.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 14:49:27 CST From: "CHRISTY GOLDBACH" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Just for awhile Message-ID: Hello everybody!! I am sorry but i am about to leave for Spring Break for two weeks, and I do not wish to come back and find that I have around 100 or more messages from people on the list because i won't have time to read them all so I am coming off the list but i will be back on it as soon as I get back from break and you can all fill me in on what we are talking about!! Until then...keep reading Misty's books I know Iwill! Love, Christy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:12:44 -0600 (CST) From: kkwilson-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Ken Wilson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk.Hi.all, In.response.to.Gessi-+AT+-ix.netcom.com, Subject: SilverG/musical instruments/The Last Straw Message-ID: <199703072212.QAA03595-+AT+-dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> co-authored with Larry Dixon. As for SG being the worst book she has ever writen, it may be trur of the Velgarth books. That does not mean that it is not worth reading though. Musical instruments via Lady Lidia who asked if there are guitars on Velgarth. I can,t remember who it was for certain but I remember that either Kris or Dirk played one during the Herald gathering after Elspeths designation as heir. Finally, I'd just like to say on the of the last straw thatit seemed obvious to me that Misty is suffering a great deal of emotional turmoil because of the actions of some people who have insuficient grasp of reality. This being the case we should be suporting _HER_ not arguing among ourselves about whether or not she should have writen the last straw or complaining about the decline of her writing "in our opinion." She is a fellow human being who deserves better than to have her so called fans abandon her and deride her simply because they no longer like what she is writing. Sorry that's a bit of a rant myself, but I feel like someone should be suporting Misty the person. Take care friends, Chris Huning He Who Rants ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:53:52 -0600 (CST) From: myktshr-+AT+-ldd.net (miyako hirao) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Formal Temporary Farewell Message-ID: <199703072353.RAA19908-+AT+-cdale3.midwest.net> Okay, folks. The time has come. We're moving out of the house on March 10, and I have to unsub from the list. But as soon as I get my e-mail address in Japan, I promise I'll sub back on to the list. Birthday gifts to all of y'all who have birthdays while I'm gone: Chocolate Sheep Pie. If you don't like chocolate, fluffy sheep android that sings "Happy Birthday" or tells you "You're *how* old? No,no,no, that *can't* be! You certainly don't look it!" And, of course, my patented Twinkle Toe Boots that can make you the Dancing Queen or the next John Travolta. And I highly recommend seeing Rent, buying the soundtrack if you can't see it, borrow it if you can't buy it... anyhoo, make sure y'all listen to Rent. And Taeyana -- huh. I don't know what I want you to do, but post, darnit! You have to become a member of the family... Where's Mishi anyway? Taeyana needs a pounce! Let's see... ObMisty: Do people organize protests in Valdemar? Do they use cows in their speech? SORRY! I'm listening to Rent... Anyhoo, that's all -- I'll have more Misty content once I get back, because I'm going to read The Firebird. BYEEEE! Taeyana, behave yourself! "Who died?" "Our Akita." "EVITA!" Love & Logic, Summersong & Spiffy the Cat, Goddess of Country Twang&Cowgirl Boots, Sorta-lady of the Pink Wand, Knightress of the OAM, Trekker Extraordinare "When freedom was waiting down at the station; all I had to do was make up my mind" -- "One Way Ticket" by LeAnn Rimes Akiko Hirao ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:53:00 -0500 From: "John and Kara Pekar" To: "MISTY" Subject: Barbie (don't read if you're sick of this thread) Message-ID: <199703080256.VAA10319-+AT+-nessie.crosslink.net> OK. I admit it. I probably over-reacted, and I definitely opened my mouth (figuratively speaking, of course) before thinking. Thanks to Elisiande and Cennydd; your arguments in support of Barbie and the Barbie costumes were clear, well thought-out, and forced me to look more objectively at the subject. Having done that, I guess I'd like to a) explain my previous reaction, and b) take my foot out of my mouth. I do feel better about the costumes knowing that the patterns are available for either doll. Yes, girls do enjoy playing with the dolls, and I'm glad to know that Elisande's (and probably lots of other girls) have no problem playing with Barbie in a position of power and authority. Back when I was playing with dolls, in the early 70's, there simply weren't all that many examples of women in positions of power and authority. My mother was a feminist; she subscribed to Ms. magazine and did everything she could to help me grow up without a limited idea of what I could do. I knew, intellectually, that I could be a doctor, a pilot, an executive, a Senator, a school principal...but I certainly didn't see many women in those kinds of positions in my own life. By the time I was in high school, women in positions of authority were becoming more and more numerous, so that I and my contemporaries had a growing number of role models. But a lot of us didn't take for granted the possiblility of attaining those positions. I'm glad that girls today can take it so much for granted that that they can "set up the Barbie jet with Barbie as the pilot and Ken as the passenger, without even thinking about it," as Elisiande said. Cen, in answer to your question about what I find "demeaning" about Barbie herself, I have to admit that it's partly a gut reaction. I've been doing a little thinking to try to pin down *why* I have this gut reaction. Partly, I think, it comes from being raised by a feminist mother in the early seventies. Granted, I should have grown up enough by now to make my own decisions about what is and isn't ok, but whether we like it or not, attitudes formed in childhood tend to be extremely hard to shake. (I'll try, though; making our own decisions is one of the perogatives -- and responsibilities -- of adulthood.) Another reason I reacted as I did has to do with what I said above about role models. IIRC, when I had dolls, the only available outfits were things like ball gowns, tennis skirts (!), wedding dresses -- entirely fashion-oriented. (Not that I have anything against girls "playing out" wedding scenes, or fancy balls. It's just that there weren't any alternatives that I can remember.) My daughter is too young to play with "fashion dolls" yet, so I haven't been paying much attention to what is available today. But I took a look in Walmart the other day, because the pro-and-con posts on the list were making me uncomfortably aware that I didn't really know much about Barbie of today beyond the odd ad on TV. I was pleased to see that among all the fashion offerings were also several professional "outfits", including accessories: a veterinary Barbie and a pediatrician. I'm sure that if these exist, so do others, which means that Mattel is offering a wider choice of "role model" in the Barbie line. (There is also a broader range of ethnic types available, which was something else that used to bother me.) So I find the idea of "Barbie" slightly less restrictive of women's roles/imagination/possibilities than I did when I wrote my "tirade". But only somewhat less restrictive...I don't know if you remember the public outcry when Mattel came out with a talking Barbie a few years back. The outrage was because among the things she said was, "Math is *hard*!" As people pointed out then, plenty of girls have enough problems with math because it is still seen as something boys can be good at, but it isn't feminine or "cool" for girls to be good at it. The makers of Barbie haven't, at least in the past, paid much attention to the need for a positive, strong, limitless role-model for girls, and that bothers me. Last is something that's perhaps harder to express, both because it's difficult to state clearly and because it's rather personal. My instinctive reaction against Barbie was based on the unreality of her appearance, particularly her breasts. I didn't realize at the time that yes, some women do get that big (though they don't stick out like Sno-cones without an awful lot of help!) I did recognize that breasts, particularly big ones, are one of the things that men find sexy. Please understand, I have *nothing* against a woman looking and feeling attractive and sexy. I am delighted that my husband finds me sexy! But as a prematurely-budding preteen and a frankly buxom teenager, I was teased and humiliated by some of my classmates, was groped against my will by three boys in a darkroom in 8th grade, and was frequently subjected to the can't-raise-his-eyes-above-the-level-of-my-chest syndrome. I learned the hard way about one's appearance putting one in the "object" role. I was lucky to be able to attend a private, Quaker high school which worked extremely hard to make students aware that women aren't sex objects, though they are sexual people; I could have had it a lot worse in a public school, as my eighth grade experience attests. But there is still some pain there. What does this have to do with Barbie? Barbie's figure, that unattainably (for most of us) slender, impossibly long-legged, improbably cantilevered figure, was for me both what was considered beautiful and what made women into objects. I know now that it is the thinking of unenlightened people that turns women into objects, and not their figures. But the doll is the product of that thinking; it first came out in the forties, IIRC. So: I'm sorry. I certainly didn't mean to imply that Barbie is the antichrist, or anything close. I also didn't mean to imply that she is the source or the cause of sexist thinking. But I still feel uncomfortable with her design, and I do still think that the whole Barbie line reflects some attitudes that need changing. It looks as though perhaps Mattel is beginning to get that message (professional outfits, ethnic dolls). Now if they would just come out with a greater range of physical types and abilities, I'd be willing to put *my* old anti-Barbie predjudice to rest. Thanks again to Elisiande and Cen; I enjoyed your postings on the subject -- they made me think my own position out more carefully, and modify it. To me, that's the whole purpose and the joy of discussion/argument/debate: to learn from each other, even if we don't end up entirely agreeing with each other. Oh, and thank you, Cen, for the lovely opening compliment! (Can I use "Disciple of Textevd" in my sig?! I like it!) Comes from being an ex-English teacher and aspiring indexer, I guess. :-) Wind to thy wings, listsibs! Kara "So many books, so little time" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:46:10 +0000 From: ecartier-+AT+-mail.geocities.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: fluff/Karsite music/karma stuff/SoI spoiler Message-ID: <199703080935.BAA13029-+AT+-geocities.com> Taeyana said: >Oh, and if the spelling sucks sorry... "A good speller is the sign >of an organised person, and organised people are so totally sane." >::smiles and shruggs::I just am a *really* bad speller. Ack! That's an insult! I'm not sane OR organized, but I can spell. Of course, Silverblade isn't sane, but IS organized, and CAN'T spell. Maybe you should talk to the Git of Dypos and the Guuilt of Dypoisst ... Oh, and welcome to the list Taeyana Tax Zombie, please don't include whole web pages in your posts if they're going to the whole list. I was so excited to get another digest, and then WHAM! a whole web page right in the middle (and I'd already read it too). That was depressing. My brand new digest shrank to an itty bitty digest. Not fun. Catherine asked: > What about the Karsites? Heavily religious cultures often use a lot f music >in their worship, so I would expect the Sun Priests to chant >Gregorian-style, if nothing else. Anyone else want to make a >suggestion? Gregorian chant sound good to me! Ave Maria, Mater Dei... Very appropriate and sonorous if they're Germanic . Deniz said: >ObMisty... Karma! Didn't somebody say something about how when >'Lendel died he "owed" Van, and that was why he came back? I think >it was one of the Tayledras duo we know and love... so would that >mean they believe in Karma of some sort? If you're trying to >remember where... it's in MPromise, when Sayvil brings in Moondance >and Starwind after Van gets hit by the leech blade. Actually I'm positive that's at the middle of MPrice. And Sayvil couldn't have done it cause she wasn't born yet, and she is a Companion... Savil was the incarnation that did it . Oh, and Deniz, Silverblade asked me to tell you that her b-day is St. Patrick's Day. Right now she's too busy worshipping Lady Sophia AND Mat (at the same time, no less) to do email. s p o i l e r s p a c e Shadowsong said: >At that time he was so involved with the arms masters that there was >no way he could have been a herald that only the Queen knew existed. Actually, it just hit me! Is it even possible for there to be a Herald that only the Queen knows about? Look at Talia's training... All the Herald-Trainees are fairly well known, and they are hanging around the Palace most of the time. How could there be a Herald who went through that training, but no one knows about? It would require _major_ coercion spells , and an awful lot of effort that would be better spent elsewhere. D i g e s t s p a c e I think that's enough for today. Maybe I'll get another digest soon... Emily the invisible, bookpile HO! Priestess of Procrastination, Computing and Programming Dame of the OAM http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/7726/ ecartier-+AT+-geocities.com (the one in the header bounces) ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1127 **********************************