MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1131 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: TLS/authors/lifebonds by "Kathy Chadman" 2) Re: The Misty post by Gessika Rovario 3) Re: Vanyel-What am I missing by mlbermudez-+AT+-CSUPomona.edu 4) gitterns/patterns in history/criticizing Misty/Sword of Ice spoiler by "John and Kara Pekar" 5) Warning..monster braid here... by cjkocher-+AT+-spectra.net 6) Re: Vanyel-What am I missing by Chris & Sean Talbot 7) Re: Musings on Vanyel by Bethany Weber 8) Re: Vanyel - What you are missing. by sillermoon-+AT+-juno.com (Silvermoon k'Treva) 9) Saddest scenes by sbanker 10) Saddest scenes/McCaffrey/TLS by "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" 11) Re: Vanyel-What am I missing by rainmaker-+AT+-amx.net 12) Re: Saddest scenes/McCaffrey/TLS by DC Kincaid 13) Re: Warning..monster braid here... by kkwilson-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Ken Wilson) 14) Re: Braid of many subjects by John Hagen 15) Sword of Ice spoiler by Sandra K Haas 16) Re: gitterns/patterns in history/criticizing Misty/Sword of Ice spoiler by MELVIN NEVERGOLD 17) enough sheep here are the cows/total fluff by gordonb-+AT+-jsd.k12.ak.us (Becca Gordon, JDHS, Juneau, AK) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:42:38 -700 MST From: "Kathy Chadman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: TLS/authors/lifebonds Message-ID: <3C45F555577-+AT+-sembilan.uchsc.edu> Howdy all, I am going to delurk for a bit to add my thoughts on TLS. For those of you who have forgotten I ever existed (smile) My name is Kathy, I am a research assistant (soon to be grad student), and avid reader of sci-fi & fantasy. Anyway, about TLS: I hope I am not rehashing old opinions but while I found it very articulate I don't think the forum was appropriate. For one thing as stated before it will be read mostly by people who it doesn't apply to and will probably only inflame those that it does apply to. One thing I am curious about -- and this is a question I haven't answered for myself -- would we be more forgiving if Misty's recent works lived up to the promise of her earlier ones? THere has been alot of discussion about this and about how instead of having a story to tell she is telling stories for the money. One thing I have never brought up but had bothered me for awhile was how long her books are in hardcover before coming out in soft. I wish I could afford the hard covers but I can't and they are almost impossible to get at the library. I don't dispute her right to make a living but it was just a personal frustration to wait a whole year before getting to read the books. Oops -- didn't mean to go off up there just wanted to illustrate a point about some of us being a little frustrated with Misty before she came out with TLS. RE: authors One thing I love about this list is the exposure to other authors everyone has mentioned. I would like to bring up Janet Kagan. She has only a few books out but they are fantastic. Uhura's Song (ST), Hellspark, and Mirabile are the ones I have read. RE: lifebonds I know this is kind of old but I was talking about it to a friend who is not a fantasy fan and we both had had similar experiences where we felt that odd kind of bond -- knew when phone calls were coming and such -- but not until the significant others were ex's. So we both agreed that that type of closeness was too hard for us to handle. Anyway -- thanks for listening. Kathy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:52:40 -0800 From: Gessika Rovario To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The Misty post Message-ID: Cennydd said: > I might even, if there were a lot of inquiries, publish a brief explanation >explaining my choice in calm and rational tone (for example, I would not >mention my "nail the guy to a wall" hope in the explanation). I certainly >wouldn't rant about it in public. I don't consider a post on the Firebird web-page as "Ranting in public" anymore than I'd consider a flame on this list as screaming in the front yard. Gessi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:32:59 -0700 From: mlbermudez-+AT+-CSUPomona.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel-What am I missing Message-ID: I am going to have to agree with this one. Vanyel went through a horrible home life, where he was insulted, used, and degraded because he was slender, and wanted to be a bard instead of a "noble warrior" like the rest of the males in his family. He learned how to build a "wall" on unfeeling, and caring around himself to protect him from the torrments that he was receiving. By reading all three of the Last Herald-MAge books you get to see Van's whole person and how he matures. I would hope that you read the others,Pamela. I have read the trilogy at least five times, and still learn new things about Van and the rest of the cast. Give them a chance. Melissa Healer of animals < ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:00:49 -0500 From: "John and Kara Pekar" To: "MISTY" Subject: gitterns/patterns in history/criticizing Misty/Sword of Ice spoiler Message-ID: <199703112304.SAA26674-+AT+-nessie.crosslink.net> (All right, let's try this again. This post apparently bounced on Saturday night; apologies to all that it is not quite as timely as it was, but most of the threads are still active.) Re: gitterns: Ashkeiryana Moonbright (EmiGryphon) quoted me, then replied: <>instrument-maker who sells Van an instrument for Medren (can't >> rememberwhether it was a lute or a gittern)>> >The main reason that that instrument was something other that a 12 stringed >glittern, and the part that was invented, was that they had metal strings >instead of gut strings. Remembre, Master Dawson also had a 6 stringed one! What Master Dawson invented was the 12-string, metal-strung gittern; he also created a 6-stringed metal-strung gittern. The 6-string, gut-strung gittern already existed, and Vanyel was familiar with it. What amazed Vanyel (and made him want a 12-string) was the incredible difference in the tone and timbre, as compared to the ordinary gut-strung 6-string he and other Bards were accustomed to. Textevd: "He opened up a hatch in the floor of the crowded wagon, and began pulling out instruments...Two lutes, a harp -- and three instruments vaguely gittern-shaped, but -- much larger." (LHM, SFBookClub ed., p. 392 [MPromise, Ch.5]) This shows that gitterns were already known, but are smaller than the new, 12-string version. And then there are Master Dawson's own words: "Been trying gitterns with metal strings, 'stead of gut..." (ibid., p. 393) But my point is that there were not any 12-string gitterns of any ilk before this, because Vanyel's jaw drops when he sees that one. (ibid., p. 394) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jonathan, I liked your theory relating Velgarthan history to ancient Greek/Persian history...I wish I knew enough about that period of history to comment effectively. I hope someone who knows more than I do picks up your thread; it could produce some interesting discussion. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Re "The Last Straw"and Misty's writing, Chris Huning wrote: >we should be suporting _HER_ not arguing among ourselves >about whether or not she should have writen the last straw or >complaining about the decline of her writing "in our opinion." I do support Misty as a person, as I suspect most of the people on this list do. I think it's sad that she has to deal with the unpleasantness of unbalanced people. But this list exists *for the purpose* of discussing ML's written works. Therefore, it should be possible to discuss the relative quality, polish, likeability, etc. of those works (including TLS), without that criticism being extended to her as a person. I'm a singer; if you criticize the way I sang a particular song, are you criticizing me? my voice? or my performance of a particular song? Actors get bad notices for rotten performances, whether or not they are generally good actors; the same can be said for any creative profession. Artists have good "days" and bad "days", and those who enjoy their art can be forgiven for being disappointed if a particular work does not live up to the usual high standard. (In fact, I'd say it's a compliment to Misty as a writer that we care enough about her work to occasionally be disappointed in it.) SWORD OF ICE SPOILER++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Emily the invisible said: >Shadowsong said: >>At that time he was so involved with the arms masters that there was >>no way he could have been a herald that only the Queen knew existed. >>Actually, it just hit me! Is it even possible for there to be a >>Herald that only the Queen knows about? Look at Talia's training... >>All the Herald-Trainees are fairly well known, and they are hanging >>around the Palace most of the time. How could there be a Herald who >>went through that training, but no one knows about? I suppose it's possible, if you postulate the following: One of Kero's company was Chosen, perhaps following the mop-up when they returned to Haven. (I think it's a bit much to suggest yet another mid-battle Choosing!) This newly-Chosen Herald-elect would already have been trained in undercover work, spying, assassination, etc. Since he doesn't know any of the Valdemarans well, the newly-Chosen goes directly to Kero to tell her what has happened. Quick to see the possiblities, and aware that Valdemar's "defense department" is a bit lacking in this area, Kero talks to Daren, Selenay, and Alberich. Probably the only other Herald who is told is Teren, since he has taken over running the Collegium. The new Herald gets his "heraldic" training either directly from Alberich and Teren, or possibly disguised as a Blue -- maybe both. (Added thought -- If his Companion is as aware of the need for someone like this as Kero is, his Companion may even have told him not to reveal his Chosen status to anyone until he had talked to Kero.) It wouldn't be necessary to hide his status from other *Companions*, since they are obviously highly skilled at keeping secrets! Support for this series of suppositions: "Very few people -- Kerowyn, Alberich, her own husband Daren -- even knew he existed, much less what he really looked like." We can assume, therefore, that he disguises himself when he is in Haven. The page announced him as a Herald, so he was wearing Whites when he went to see Selenay; that means that it is his actual appearance that he disguises. (Incidentally, this also gives us a clue to how many Heralds there are: enough that most Heralds do not know every single Herald by sight.) The sentence quoted above also supports the list of people I postulated as being in on the secret, with the exception of Teren. I do think it would be very difficult to train a Herald surreptitiously without the knowledge and cooperation of the Dean. However, if he were disguised as a Blue, I suppose it is possible. I'm also a bit surprised that Talia isn't among those listed as being "in the know"; surely as Queen's Own she ought to be told? Incidentally, he can't be Skif. "He, like Skif, was a spy and an assassin..." Oh, and I thought of another possible tie-in. Remember the agent who was sitting in Kero's office, picking off bits of warts, etc., in the middle of WFury? The one who brought the information about what was going on in Hardorn...Could be our "invisible" Herald, no? Elspeth had never seen him before, but that holds up; according to "Blue Heart" she wasn't ever in on the secret. And no one else who might have to do with him would necessarily know him as a Herald; to them, he would just have been one of Kero's anonymous spies. (Quotes were from "Blue Heart", SoI, US edition, p. 335.) END OF SPOILER+++++++++++++++++++++++ Kathy Chadman wrote: >One thing I have never brought up but had bothered me for awhile >was how long her books are in hardcover before coming out in soft. >I don't dispute her right to make a living but it was just >a personal frustration to wait a whole year before getting to read >the books. Actually, the length of time a book remains in hardcover before coming out in soft cover has little to do with the author. It tends to be a publisher policy. As an ex-bookstore manager (yes, one of *those* chains!), I can tell you that the average time from hc to pb release is 11 months. You do occasionally get publishers or imprints who use a 10-month time period, but anything shorter is pretty rare (or was when I was in the business.) I think if you check on the hc-pb time for other, similar authors, you'll find that it is also around a year. And yes, it is frustrating, which is why it tends to sell more books. All I can suggest is that you try interlibrary loan, beg/borrow from friends, or haunt used bookstores and get on good terms with the manager so they'll call you when/if one comes in. Wind to thy wings, Kara "So many books, so little time" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:47:10 -0500 From: cjkocher-+AT+-spectra.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Warning..monster braid here... Message-ID: <3325EEFE.2270-+AT+-spectra.net> Greetings listsibs... One thought I wanted to toss out to everyone on the TLS debate ... this letter was posted to various places online almost 2 months ago! So, why does it suddenly show up on Firebird all over again?? Excuse me if this sounds too harsh, but does Misty feel that she didn't get enough attention with her first "release"? I also hang out on the Lackey newsgroup, and when I posted a question about TLS the other folk were stunned that it was being brought back up again. This letter has apparently caused quite a stir in fandom, and just when it looked like things might be settling down, the Firebird posting has stirred the muck up again. I'm not sure who said it but I agree, this post is not going to be seen by those it was really meant for. I'm curious as to whether or not TLS was published in QO .. I haven't received the Feb newsletter yet, but if you're going to make a statement to your fans, where better to do it than in the fanclub newsletter? Does anyone out there belong to QO wwho received their Feb issue?? And then we have the post from Winterrobin ... *taking deep breath* ... > It's scarey being told you are gonna get killed and how it'll > happen. Can any of you understand this? How many of you have actually > seen a child get shot down by a stray bullet or run down by the same car three times over? I don't think there was a single person on this list who trivialized the death threats to Misty, or who acted as if they didn't care whether a child lived or died... so, I'm not sure where this attack (and yes, that's what it felt like.. an attack) came from. No, I've never had death threats against me, but my brother has. And I have seen violent crime up close and personal ... but what point does that make here?? My only opinion on TLS was that it seemed childish and unprofessional, but not uncaring. > as a fan I consider myself her friend This is a *completely* personal opinion, but I don't think that being a fan of someone qualifies you as a friend. I'm a fan of Misty, but I don't know anything about her personal life, nor do she and I share anything that would resemble friendship ... again, IMHO, perhaps this is where so many "flakes" begin their delusions.. they think that just because they connect with an author's work, this automatically gives them the right to make personal comments on the author's life or to consider themselves a part of the author's life... here's the relationship as I see it ... Misty writes books ... I buy books ... Misty gets money ... The End. Anything else is purely speculative on my part... Kathy wrote: > would we be more forgiving if Misty's recent works lived up to the promise of her earlier ones? Excellent point. The only response I can think of is that perhaps the fans are closing in on their own "Final Straw" ... case in point, Hth, where all the disappoinments with the later works are adding up, then something like TLS happens and everything reaches a break point... Heather Wegermer wrote: (at least, I *think* that's who said this..) > We were forced to look at Elspeth, however, from the outside. Thank you for clarifying what I have been feeling about this who debate with Elspeth. I hadn't really commented because I couldn't put a finger on what bothered me... what you said is so true. With Talia and Vanyel .. We *knew* what was going on with them, inside and out... but not the case with Elspeth. The thing it reminds me most of are movie adaptations of books ... in the books, you are so much closer to the characters because of the insight inside their thoughts, but you lose that close-ness with a movie made of the same... which could, in turn, argue that Velgarth movies might not be such a good idea after all... Chris Huning wrote: > why are > these people still reading her books and why are they members of a > "fan" mailing list? Honestly it makes no sense to read books you don't > like if you don't have to. I don't expect anyone to like her work, ev I've been reading Misty's books since the beginning. I have stuck with her for a very long time, and it is only recently (in the last year or so) that I have felt disatisfaction with her novels. I agree, it makes no sense to read books you don't like, but at the same time, I'm not about to abandon an author because she writes something I didn't care for. And I'm a member of this list because I've felt that we can talk intelligently about her books, and can discuss our ideas about her books ... it's not all blind-devotion here... My apologies for this long and rambling post .. I tried to answer everything at once ... at least the list is active again. :) Crys ---------Christopher J. Kocher-------Crystal D. Sarakas-------- ----------------------cjkocher-+AT+-spectra.net--------------------- "Would anybody like to write a song with me now? A line at a time?" - Ray Davies, during a CompuServe chat "It is appallingly clear that our technology has surpassed our humanity." - Albert Einstein -------Ask about ordering information for "Ninth Aspect"------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:23:07 -0500 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel-What am I missing Message-ID: <199703120023.TAA01923-+AT+-relief.idirect.com> At 10:01 PM 3/11/97 GMT, you wrote: > I am going to have to agree with this one. Vanyel went through a >horrible home life, where he was insulted, used, and degraded because >he was slender, and wanted to be a bard instead of a "noble warrior" >like the rest of the males in his family. He learned how to build a >"wall" on unfeeling, and caring around himself to protect him from the >torrments that he was receiving. I agree with this. There are other reasons as well. He didn't have someone who he thought loved him for himself. Like most of us we all have parents who love unconditionally. Without that emotional stability of knowing someone loves you then there are going to be more problems. Now about being smaller then his brothers and fosterlings well that really wouldn't account for all the stuff. I have always been short and smaller is muscles then most of my friends and school mates. You don't usually make a wall of it though. You can pretend they don't bother you but most people know they can hit home with them. Being a male and 19 that a little over 5 feet 3 inches is very hard indeed. I have long since stopped considering myself the way other think. With Vanyel in the books he had given up caring what his family thought of him. So really with him it is more the case that with no one to help him through emotional troubles except for Lendel when they met, what can you expect. Though in the later books you see him whiny in some points there are always reasons. It is never just black and white of why he is like this and that. What he would be like was forced on him. He didn't want to be anything but a bard. So really my interpretation of Vanyel is that he is whiny as well but he has more causes to be that way then most people do. > > By reading all three of the Last Herald-MAge >books you get to see Van's whole person and how he matures. I would >hope that you read the others,Pamela. I have read the trilogy at least >five times, and still learn new things about Van and the rest of the >cast. Give them a chance. HE matures correct but he still stay whiny is some points. As I said in the previous paragraph that he has more reasons usually for being that way. It doesn't take away from how well Misty worked with our emotions. If you find him whiny that is because Mistay wanted the character to generally be more realistic and not flat like other character I have seen (none however in her novels) WEll I guess that is all I should say I have a question for the list My use name I go by here is Aites I have used many other do you think that Lightwing would be a more appropriate name for a Misty name? Aistes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:17:53 -0600 (CST) From: Bethany Weber To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Musings on Vanyel Message-ID: As a newbie, I hope this is all correct and proper: I like to talk and on the newsgroup I occasionally post (fairly long) musings on one (M. Lackey related) subject or another. Oh, well, I'm sure if anyone objects they won't be overlong in emailing me to tell me so. :) Vanyel Musings by the Weredragon: I've read a lot of comments on how "whiny" and/or "spoiled" Vanyel is, and to be perfectly frank, I've never understood either of them. In _Magic's Pawn_ Vanyel strikes me as being a fairly typical teenager with a less pleasant than average life, nothing more. First off, I have to say I don't think the fact that Vanyel's life could have been worse means he didn't have the right to complain about it. For example, I've been very fortunate in that my family is as functional as families ever are. Does the fact that I didn't have abusive parents mean I shouldn't ever get irritated at them, or that I can't ever complain? Not only does that strike me as being unhealthy, but taken to its logical extreme no one in the world has the right to complain or be unhappy about anything: the very fact that we're still alive implies that someone, somewhere, has had it worse. So I don't see that the fact that Vanyel's parents loved him deep down inside means he shouldn't be upset about the other abuses they've subjected him to. True, it's always good to think how much worse it could be, to keep a sense of perspective... but Vanyel was 16, and teenagers aren't always noted for having a sense of persepctive. I say this as a 20-yr-old, BTW -- I know *I* lacked that kind of perspective when I was 16. One of the reasons is that all my friends had the same basic kinds of problems I did -- until I began to meet people who had *actually* suffered, instead of just having occasional spats, I didn't realize how good I had it. As sheltered as Vanyel was, there's no reason to expect him to realize he was lucky. Remember how surprised he was to find that Stef couldn't even ride a horse -- and that was after years of service to Valdemar! Several times the books mention how Van has been spoiled. To me, a spoiled child means one whose parents are overpermissive, or who give him whatever he wants. How did Vanyel's parents do that again -- when the forced him to take arms lessons, when they exiled him to Haven, what? I remember the first time I read the "whining" scene between Vanyel and Savil. Vanyel had just come back from a REALLY rought stint on the front lines, and was utterly exhausted. He spends a few mintues telling Savil so, then says (I don't have the book at school, sorry,) "I'm sorry for whining." I thought, "Oh, Vanyel is always too hard on himself," and I honestly expected Savil to come back with something to the effect of: "Hey, I understand, sometimes trying to defend Valdemar seems hopeless to me, too. You're tired, you've had a horrible few months, you need someone to talk to. In fact, I think you keep too much bottled up inside. Don't worry about it." When I read the actual response, "I think you've earned a little whining," I went "WHAT!?" OK, maybe Savil actaully meant what I just said, but it still threw me for a loop.As several people have pointed out concerning TLS, it's HEALTHY to talk about your frustrations to other people... now publishing it on the Internet for all and sundry to read... well, I digress. I honestly can't think of a time when I was reading the LHM books when I thought Vanyel's reacton was so extreme for the situations he found himself in it consituted whining. Vanyel is moody, yes. Maybe as an admittedly moody person myself, I find that a less grevious character fault than some. I tend to lapse into (usually brief) bouts of self-pity for no apparent reason, then come out of them again without warning. Vanyel is a lot more moody than I am, but then, look at the life he's had! I guess it simply may not strike me as being as odd as it strikes other people. Vanyel is also arrogant in _Magic's Pawn_-- but as Jos says, "But I can't help but wonder how much he sticks up his nose in the air around you lot 'cause you seem so bent on rubbin' it in the dirt" (pg 51). If all your peers are trying to put you down, thinking that you're better than they are is one of the easiest ways -- maybe the only way -- to keep your self-esteem from being totally crushed. I know that's how *I* survived junior high school. In the things he's good at, Vanyel knows he's good, and rubs it in, and he makes excuses for the things he's bad at -- well, that strikes me as being the need for approval talking, and nothing more. If you get the idea that your only worth is in the things you can do, you have a vested interest in thinking highly of your abilites. Notice that when he thought he had unconditional love, from Lissa or 'Lendal, his attitude changed considerably. He's self-absorbed, too -- but name me a teenager who isn't. Adolescence is a time for trying to find out who you are and who you want to be -- a task that *requires* a certian degree of self-absorbtion. And as for overreacting -- well, he's Treesa's son, and she had the raising of him. I'm surprised he turned out as level-headed as he is. My (deity/ies of your choice), I didn't realize how long I'd been typing -- or how long this missive is getting. I think I'll stop trying psychoanalyze Van now, since my homework awaits. Giant sheeps if I've exceeded the polite length of post, and kudos to anyone who's still with me. Bethany Weber (PS -- Hey, just be grateful she didn't have someone post TLS directly to the list. That's what she did to the newsgroup -- and without the note at the end providing context for the rant. I know there's a possiblity that there are wierdos lurking on the group -- or the list -- but I think of the group as the people who post, and them as my friends. It's hard (for me anyway) not to feel that you and your friends are being singled out for an attack in those circumstances...) ------------------Official Weredragon of Rice University------------------- "The truth is usually just an excuse for lack of imagination." -Garak, DS9, "Improbable Cause." But reality is *always* an excuse for lack of imagination. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Dragon etiquette is incredibly complicated, and if you make a mistake, the dragon eats you." -- Patricia C. Wrede, _Talking to Dragons_ ------------------http://www.owlnet.rice.edu:80/~bethany/------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 21:41:50 EST From: sillermoon-+AT+-juno.com (Silvermoon k'Treva) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel - What you are missing. Message-ID: <19970311.214114.12079.1.Sillermoon-+AT+-juno.com> Pamela said: >>I guess he annoyed me because I know people who grew up in horrible situations, hiding the same secret, and didn't react that way. But I will read again and see if I can get past that first impression that turned me off.<< I guess the question of if you like Van depends on your own personal experiences. From what you said there, you thought that he was dwelling on a problem instead of making it better. That's what I get out of that anyway, I apologize now if I just put words in your mouth. But when I read those books, I felt like Misty had written a book about me. Maybe not the plot, but the internal thinking. Mostly the whole ice prince thing. It seemed like he could have been my twin in _Pawn_. I knew what he was going through, and he became my favorite character. If you've crossed the same bridge, it makes a lot more sense I guess. Lady Guenevere wrote: >> I cried and laughed and basically emoted throughout those books because I understood Vanyel. Because he was human and because he loved. I totally empathized with his tendency to wear himself to a thread and his struggle with ethics. When he worries that getting involved with someone could jeapordize their safety, I know what he's worried about because Misty let me inside his head. >> Exactly. That's what made me really understand him. I cried so hard the first time I read _Pawn_. So many different places too. I was depressed for a week I think. It was me, over and over. The whole fact that I was hiding behind brick walls. Then I re-read it a few weeks ago. My life has changed drastically. Before, I cried because I was alone like Van. This time I cried because I knew I finally had someone to talk to, in the form of a best friend. I cried for Van the second time, not myself. New question: For those of you who cried somewhere in LHM, what scene was the saddest to you? Hmmm...let me redo that. Saddest in any of the books? For me it was after 'Lendel died, right before Van tried to suicide. Van was just looking at 'Lendel and talking to him, I think. I'm so good at imagining book scenes that it broke my heart. Lady Silvermoon LIG, Leader of the DDMF, Dame of the OAM, LotPW, Goddess of Sensitivity ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 97 22:10:51 From: sbanker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Saddest scenes Message-ID: >New question: For those of you who cried somewhere in LHM, what scene >was the saddest to you? Hmmm...let me redo that. Saddest in any of the >books? For me it was after 'Lendel died, right before Van tried to In LHM, for me it was when Van relived Savil's death. She was one of his few friends, and to lose her on top of the slow death of Randale, the murders of the other Herald Mages hurt him more. The fact he felt that he could have saved her, made the blow worse. In all the books, the saddest point was when Ancar is torturing Talia. The was crying and willing to throw the book against the wall (something I almost never contemplate.) The most poignant moment was when she gave the arrows to the gypsy boy, saying Kris was dead and she was not to be rescued. Samantha Banker sbanker-+AT+-stny.lrun.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:14:13 From: "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Saddest scenes/McCaffrey/TLS Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19970312151413.09a7a292-+AT+-bilbo.cc.flinders.edu.au> New question: What scene was the saddest to you? Now that's a toughie - LHM: When Van was dying and was in Death's embrace When Yfandes joined Van and told him that she always knew that it would end like this! AOQ: When Ylsa dies When Kris died When Talia gave up all hope and took the argonal Oathbound & Oathbreakers: When Kethry lies dying and Tarma calls on the Star Eyed Storms: When Karal wakes up & realises the sacrifices that have been made and again when he goes with Andesha to the Moonpaths I also remember when I was reading Dragonquest in a coffee bar and I got to the stage where all of the Dragons form a wedge to collect Canth & F'nor - I was trying to cry quietly but I had to get up and leave. A similar situation occurred when the 2 queens fought and Wirenth took them both between - my heart ached for Brekke (OK and a little bit for Kylara but not much). You ought to have seen me with Shadowlands (and for those who can remember - Sunshine!) I am still debating with myself about TLS - and one thing it has done has been has been to make me order them from the States to see what all the fuss is about! Wind to they wings, list sibs Warm regards, Aili Herald healer, dragon friend and Renunciate ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:50:26 -0500 From: rainmaker-+AT+-amx.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel-What am I missing Message-ID: HELLLP! sheesh! i have sent mail 7 times to the listproc trying to get off this list (no offence, i love lackey but i dont have the time for the hundreds of messages that come in each day... i REALLY need to get off this list, and i followed the format... what now? -Rainy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 01:20:47 -0500 From: DC Kincaid To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Saddest scenes/McCaffrey/TLS Message-ID: <33264B3F.7259-+AT+-peace.oaktree.net> Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda wrote: > > New question: What scene was the saddest to you? > When Van is raped by the thugs in Leareth's pay. I read it once and I can't read that part again, not yet - it hurts too much. Whenever I re-read the LHM - MPrice I skirt around that area. I remember crying and getting so angry and sad when Yfandes tells Stef that Van's will was broken. I hated those people, I still do. It is kind of scary to fall in love with a fictional character. It really is the mark of a great storyteller that I could feel that way. I hope to find some author (maybe even Misty in the future) with that kind of power. Dana Fast Fashion http://www.oaktree.net/angel1 mobilis in mobili ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 04:20:56 -0600 (CST) From: kkwilson-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Ken Wilson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Warning..monster braid here... Message-ID: <199703121020.EAA15949-+AT+-dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Hello all, Crys wrote: > >> as a fan I consider myself her friend > > This is a *completely* personal opinion, but I don't think that >being a >fan of someone qualifies you as a friend. I'm a fan of Misty, but I >don't know anything about her personal life, nor do she and I share >anything that would resemble friendship ... again, IMHO, perhaps this >is where so many "flakes" begin their delusions.. they think that just >because they connect with an author's work, this automatically gives >them the right to make personal comments on the author's life or to >consider themselves a part of the author's life... I don't think it is fair or appropriate to imply that someone is a flake or delusional for considering themself a freind of a favorite author. IMHO indeed, this smacks of pettiness more than anything else. > >Chris Huning wrote: >> why are these people still reading her books and why are they >>members of a "fan" mailing list? Honestly it makes no sense to read >>books you don't like if you don't have to. I don't expect anyone to >>like her work, ev > > I've been reading Misty's books since the beginning. I have >stuck with her for a very long time, and it is only recently (in the >last year or >so) that I have felt disatisfaction with her novels. I agree, it >makes no sense to read books you don't like, but at the same time, I'm >not about to abandon an author because she writes something I didn't >care for. And I'm a member of this list because I've felt that we can >talk intelligently about her books, and can discuss our ideas about >her books .. it's not all blind-devotion here... > I did not mean to imply blind devotion. On the other hand "Intelligent conversation" does not always stay that way, or start that way. It seemed to me that several people were complaining over much. They made the decision to read the books and should accept the consequenses to some extent. Not to imply that critisism is inapropriate in the case of Misty's later works, but at some point it is no longer relevent. So I guess my point was, If you don't like it don't read anymore or at least don't complain so much. I would like to see people talk inteligently about specific things they did not lake rather than general complaining. Besides, I was not talking about anyone specificly because at this point I have no idea who it was who inspired my original post. Good Eats and other things, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 07:13:51 -0400 From: John Hagen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid of many subjects Message-ID: <33268FE8.4A5D-+AT+-snet.net> Aistes said > He didn't have someone > who he thought loved him for himself. Like most of us we all have parents > who love unconditionally. Without that emotional stability of knowing > someone loves you then there are going to be more problems. Now about being > smaller then his brothers and fosterlings well that really wouldn't account > for all the stuff. Van's general whininess does go away except when he is exhausted. I am 43, and still whine when I am exhausted in any way what so ever. Aistes asked > do you think that Lightwing would be a more > appropriate name for a Misty name? Fine by me. How did you come up with Aistes? Is it from some obscure Greek play or something? Lady Silvermoon asked > New question: For those of you who cried somewhere in LHM, what scene > was the saddest to you? Hmmm...let me redo that. Saddest in any of the > books? Oh, gods. The saddest scene in any of the books. In the LHM trilogy, MPawn had me crying from beginning to end. MPromise, it was the death scene between Van, the Shadowlover, and Jason. MPrice, it was the last third of the book, after the Web got set up and all the Guardians died except for Van and he finally dies with Yfandes taking Leareth out by means of a Final Strike. Then Stef tries to kill himself and decides to live and finish Van's work and dies of old age. As far as The Last Straw goes. Hmmmm. . . okay. Misty has two forums for her work. Fiction, which we all enjoy more or less depending on the quality of her writing at the particular time, and an open essay to her fans which maybe should not have been published on the Internet. Personally having been through some of what she has been through, I would have reacted pretty much the same way. Fear makes me angry at the least, enraged at the most. Noone here has lived Misty's life. Until you have walked a mile in her moccassins, don't judge her. The essay was not politically correct, may have been rude to the vast majority of her fans but we here in the US have the right and obligation to free speech. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Lady Sara, LIG and Dryad Extraordinaire Hopeful Diety of All Marsupials, Past, Present and Future ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 08:45:06 -0500 (EST) From: Sandra K Haas To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Sword of Ice spoiler Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Mar 1997, John and Kara Pekar wrote: > > SWORD OF ICE SPOILER++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > I suppose it's possible, if you postulate the following: One of Kero's > company was Chosen, > (Incidentally, this also gives us a clue to > how many Heralds there are: enough that most Heralds do not know every > single Herald by sight.) > END OF SPOILER+++++++++++++++++++++++ I tend to agree with your postulations. Especially about not all Heralds knowing each other. Remember in the last(?) Herald Mage book where Vanyel enters an inn and there is another Herald there, who doesn't recognize him until her Companion informs her, and then she gets all googly-eyed and he gets really depressed that even his fellow Heralds have a fear of him? I guess I can't resist a comment on the Last Straw. "What everybody else has said!" She does have a right to be angry and afraid of kooks. However, she should have waited a day after writing her tirade and reworked it before asking it to be posted. Someone else Esme (?) stated that she was more likely to get a response to her re-writen letter than the one that came off the cuff is exactly right. I would also like to compliment this list as a whole. I lurked on the alt.books.m-lackey list for a day or two and couldn't take it for very long. Most postings were a)very short one-liners, and b) tended to be very personal. I would have been very uncomfortable posting there, and the volume and fluff content was really hard to overlook. SO!! THANK you to everyone who makes this list the wonderful thing that it is. I feel that newbies are made to feel welcome, and even tho' people put fluff in their posts, the whole thing isn't fluff (well, sometimes it is, but even then people warn others about the fluff level!!) later gators! Sandy (can I be invisible also Emily?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:31:16 -0500 (EST) From: MELVIN NEVERGOLD To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: gitterns/patterns in history/criticizing Misty/Sword of Ice spoiler Message-ID: re;-- mystery herald --(there are some forms of mind magic which can be used to disquise one's self re:-- gitterns -- the item bieng purchase for medren when vanyel found metal stringed gitterns was a lute -(the guy pulled a bait and switch on van) re:-- harping on Misty's lastest books -- readers grow and change and authors grow and change ----- live with it. The master of bluntness Melvin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 07:40:36 +0000 From: gordonb-+AT+-jsd.k12.ak.us (Becca Gordon, JDHS, Juneau, AK) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: enough sheep here are the cows/total fluff Message-ID: "SMILE - IT WILL MAKE PEOPLE WONDER WHAT YOUR ARE THINKING!" --COWS-- (__) )__( vv vv (oo) (oo) ||----|| * /-------\/ *-------\/ || | / / | || / | || /\-------/ * ||----|| / ||----|| (oo) ^^ ^^ vv vv (~~) USA Cow Nerd USA Cow Australian Cow (__) (__) (__) (00) (-o) (--) . yawn /------\/ /------\/ /------\/ /| || /| || /| || * ||----|| * ||----|| * ||----|| Cow w/ Glasses Flirtatious cow (winking) Cow after pulling an all-nighter O__O \_|_/ (oo) (oo) /-------\/ /-------\/ / | || / | || * ||----|| * ||----|| ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ Cow at Disneyland Cow visiting the Statue of Liberty \ (__) (__) * (__) \\(oo) (\/) \ (oo) /-----\\\/ /-------\/ \-------\/ / | (##) / | || 8-| || * ||----||" * ||----|| ||----|| ^^ ^^ ~~ ~~ ^^ ^^ Scottish cow playing bagpipes. Cow from Beijing Wind-up Flying Cow * (__) (__) (__) (__) \ (oo) (oo) (oo) (oo) \-------\/ /-------\/ /-------\/ /-------\/ /| |\ / / \ / \ / / \ \ //||----||\\ * //------\\ * \\--// * \\----\\ ^ ^^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Cow walking Cow jogging Cow running Cow braking (__) (oo) (__) * (__) \/ (oo) | (oo) ____| \____ /-------\/ o=o=o=|------\/ ---/ --** / | / | | *____/ |___// * ||----|| ||----|| //--------/ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ //__ Cow Cow pooing Cow marching standing (__) (oo) U /-------\/ /---V / | || * |--| . * ||----|| ^^ ^^ Cow at 1 meter. Cow at 100 meters. Cow at 10,000 meters. (__) (__) (__) (__) (oo) (oo) (oo) (oo) /-------\/-* /-------\/ /-------\/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ / | || \ )*)(\/* / * / | || * ||----|| * \ |||/)|/()( ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ \/|(/)(/\/(,,/ \)|(/\/|)(/\ Cow munching Grass munching Cow in water Cow in swimming pool on grass on cow (__) (__) (__) (OO) (-+AT+--+AT+-) (xx) /-------\/ /-------\/ /-------\/ / | || / | || / | || * ||----|| * ||----|| * ||----|| ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ Cow who drank Jolt Cow who ate Cow who used Jolt to wash psychedelic mushrooms down psychedelic mushrooms )\ (__) / \ (oo) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Cow swimming in shark infested water ( ( ) ( ( ) ) ( ( ) ( / ) ( ( \\ ) ( | // ) | | (__) | | (oo) (__) | | ----\/ ______(oo)_____ | | || ( _)_______(__) ) **| | ---|| \ __________/ ``'---------^^ Cow Hide Cow Pie * ** ** * ** * * * ** * / / \ * * \ \ / \ / / (__) * / / \ \ (__) \ \ /--------(00) / (00) / / / | |( ) \ /-------\/ \ \ * ||---- ||() / / | || / / || || \ \ * ||----|| \ \ ^^ ^^ / / ^^ ^^ / / Cow Chewing Marbles Cow in Heat o o |__| (__) (__) (oo) (oo) =(oo)= oo /-------\/ /-------vv /-------\/ / | || / | || / | || * ||----|| * ||----|| * ||----|| ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ bill bixby bela lugosi boris karloff claude rains male relative cow cow cow cow /\ __ / \ || (__) (__) \ / (_||_) SooS (oo) \/ (oo) /------S\/S /-------\/ /S /-------\/ / | || / | || / S / | || * ||----|| * ||----||___/ S * ||----|| ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ This cow belonged Ben Franklin owned Abe Lincoln's to George Washington this cow cow (__) * (__) (oo) \ (oo) /------\/ \-------\/ /| |/ | | ==$ || / | [) || ||----|| * ||----|| ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ Old "One Arm" belonged This cow was given to to Caesar's Palace Hugh Hefner for his Birthday (___) (__) (__) ( O ) (oo) (oo) /-------\ / \/--------\/ / | ||V | | * ||----|| ||------|| ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ The cyclops that Jason and This cow lived with the Argonauts met had this cow Dr. Doolittle (__) (__) [##] (-+AT+-o) /-------\/ /-------\/ /------- (__) / | || / | || / | || (oo) * ||----|| * ||----|| * ||----|---\/ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^ This cow belonged This cow lived with This cow belonged to to Flash Gordon the Little Rascals the Headless Horseman (__) (oo) /---+ +--\/ / | | | || * ||-+ +-|| ^^ ^^ * David Copperfield's Cow David Copperfield's other Cow (__) (oo) /'^^^-m (__) / '' ` ) (oo) o /| /|/|_ | /| / \/ / / _ / | | | | / _\===^ ___\_____/___ |_____|_| ___|__/ |/\ (___________(_) //|| || * ^ ^ * ww ww Mrs. O'Leary's Cow Cow'nt Dracula (__) (__) (__) (\/) ($$) (**) /-------\/ /-------\/ /-------\/ / | 666 || / |=====|| / | || * ||----|| * ||----|| * ||----|| ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ Satanic cow Yuppie Cow Cow in love ____ (____) .xxxx. (__) '(oo)` (oo) /-----'-\/ ` /-------\/ / | |============> / | || * ||----| (~) * ||----|| ~~ ~ ~~ ~~ Moo-ammar Cowdafi holy cow (armed and dangerous) (---) ( ) (___) (___) /-----\ (o o) (o o) | | /-------\ / /-------\ / | | | / | ||O / | O~ ||O | | | * ||,---|| * ||,---|| | * | ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ A Bull A-bomb-in-a-bull No-bull Coward (__) \__\ (__) (oo) o (oo) (oo) /-------\/ ____\___\/ *+-------\/ / | || / | || ||______|| * ||----|| * ||----|| ||----|| OO OO OO OO OO OO Detroit cow Mustang cow pickup cow (__) (__) \_||_~ (oo) (oo) (*||*) /---------------\/ /----\/ /-------\||/ / | || / || / | || * ||------------|| *-||----|| * ||----|| OO OO OO OO OO }{ li-moo-cow fastback cow teenager's cow (____) (____) (____) (oo ) (o o) ( OO) /-----------\ / /-----\ /---- /-----------\ / / || | \/ / | | \/ | / || | \/ / || |||| \ | | | | | / || |||| * ||||-----|||| *| | |-----| | | * ||||-----|||| /\/\ /\/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ ^^^^ ^^^^ This cow belonged This was Salvatore No one was sure whether to Pablo Picasso Dali's favorite cow M.C. Escher's cow had four legs or eight (__) (__) ^^ (oo) (--) ^^^^ /-------\/ /-\/-\ ^^^^^ / | || /| |\ ^^^^^ * ||----|| ^ | | ^ ^^^^^^^^ ====^^====^^==== | | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^/ /----\ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ / \ \ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ * ^ Cow surfing at Malibu Cow sunning at Fort Lauderdale (What a bod, huh guys?) * (__) \ (DD) \ /-------\/ |\ / | ||_\_/ \ | \ (__) * ||----| \\|| \(oo) ^^ ^ \||\ \\/ Cow chugging brews and staring ^^ \|| sunbathers at Fort Lauderdale \\ || \\|| \|| ^^ / / / / / / / / / / / \\_ / / / / / / / / / / / / \_ / / / / / _______ / / Cow skiing a Black Diamond at Aspen / / / / | \ / / / / / (__)| / / / / / (oo)| / / ( -+AT+--+AT+--+AT+- ) /-------\/ | ( -+AT+--+AT+- ) (------------) / | ||^_| -+AT+--+AT+- (__) ( *>COUGH<* ) * ||----| -+AT+--+AT+- (oo) . . . ( *>COUGH<* ) ^^ ^ /--UU--\/ (____________) / | || Cow sheltering from weather * ||---|| >> >> (New) Jersey Cow (__) _--------_ (oo) |__________| BIG /-------\/ XXXXXXXXXX MAC / | 007 || __________ * ||----|| |_ _| ^^ ^^ -------- Cow licenced to kill Enemy Cow after having met previous cow x xxxx|xxxx xxxxxxx|xxxxxxx | // (__) // (__(__) (oo)// (oo(oo) /-------\// /-------\/ \/-------\ / | |// / | || || | \ * ||----| * ||----|| ||----|| * ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ Mary Poppins Cow Siamese cows o o (__) ^ \ / (oo) / \ / _____\/___/ (__) \__/ / /\ / / (oo) _______(oo) ^ / * / /---------\/ /| ___ \/ / ___/ / | x=a(b)|| / | { }|| *----/\ * ||------|| * ||{___}|| / \ ^^ ^^ ||-----|| / / ^^ ^^ ^ ^ Mathematical Television This cow does Disco Cow Cow (That's what comes of (developer of (Cow-thode snorting cow-caine) cow-culus) Ray Tube) . /\ . . : . / \ . . : / \ . . * : / \ * : | (__) | . . ** : . /| (oo) |\ ** : / | /\/\ | \ . . * : . / |=|==|=| \ . * : . / | | | | \ . : / USA | ^||^ |NASA \ . : |______| ^^ |______| . : . (__||__) . . : . /_\ /_\ . . . : !!! !!! : : The cow that jumped over the moon. : o | [---] | | | | |------========| /----|---|\ | **** |=======| /___/___\___\ o | **** |=======| | | ___| |==============| | | ___ {(__)} |==============| \-----------/ []( )={(oo)} |==============| \ \ / / /---===--{ \/ } | ----------------- / | NASA |==== | | | * ||------||-----^ ----------------- || | | / / \ \ ^^ ^ | / ---- \ ^^ ^^ This cow landed on the moon. (__) ([][]) "I have this recurring dream __\/_--U about golden arches.".. (__) /\ \__ ^ :..("") /\\\ / / //\ ____\_____\/ // /----^/__/\ /\ // \\/ \___ / // \\\____/--\-- // /-/__________/ // /====== \/ =======/==============// *_/ / \ /^ // / \\ / \ ^ // \\ Psycowlogist and patient (___) \^^^^^^^^\ (__) (o o) \^^^^^^^^\\ (oo) \ / *-----\_______\/\/ \--O--/ ^_______/ --- \______^ // -----\ ^--------\ \S/ /\_____^ \\/_^{} /==V===[] \______/ \_____\\// \__/ It's a bird... //\\ The Boss It's a plane... // \\ (Bruce Holstein) // // ^^ ^^ ================== _____________________________ H H | |-------------| H (__) H | | ________ | H (oo) H __ | COWNTY | | (|__|) | | H / \/ \ H / \ | JAIL | | |oo| | | H | | | | H | STOP | | | |__|\/|__| | H D===b=----- H \ __ / | | o | H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^H || | | ^ | H H || | | ] | H H || | | | H H || |_____________|_____________| H H || ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ Some cows get in trouble... Cattle Guard \ | / ___________ ____________ \ \_# / | ___ | _________ | | \ #/ | | | | | = = = = | | | | | | \\# | |`v'| | | | | | \# // | --- ___ | | | || | | | | | | | #_// | | | | | | | | \\ #_/_______ | | | | | | || | | | | | | | \\# /_____/ \ | --- | | | | | \# |+ ++| | | |^^^^^^| | | | || | | | | \# |+ ++| | | |^^^^^^| | | | || | | ^^^| (^^^^^) |^^^^^#^| H |_ |^| | |||| | |^^^^^^| | | ( ||| ) | # ^^^^^^ | | |||| | | | ||||||| | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^________/ /_____ | | |||| | | | ||||||| | `v'- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | ||||||| | || |`. (__) (__) ( ) (oo) (oo) /---V /-------\/ \/ --------\ * | | / | || ||_______| \ * ||W---|| || || * ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ "Cow Town" ...---... ../ / | \ \.. ./ / / | \ \ \. / / / | \ \ \ / / / | \ \ \ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \ | / \ | / \ | / \ | / \ | / \ | / \ | / \ | / \ | / \ | /(__) \|/ (oo) /---++--\/ / | || || * ||-++-|| ^^ ^^ Cow surviving attack by Red Baron (__) (oo) /-------\/ / | || * ||----|| ^^ ^^ (__) (__) (oo) (oo) /-------\/ \/-------\ / | || -^^- || | \ * ||---- -^^- || * ^^ ^^ (__) (__) (oo) (oo) /-------\/ \/-------\ / | || || | \ * ||----|| ||----|| * ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ Barnum's Troupe of performing cows ____ ____ |+++++| |++++| ___ |++++| ____ |+++++| |++++| |++ ______________________ |++++| |+++++| |++++| |++/ /( )\ \ |++++| |+++++| __ | | |+| |-oo- | \______ |++++| |+++++| |++| - - -(__)--| \__\/ _(__)_ \ o ( oo /_______________________| (oo) \ | __ | _/\_| | M O O - B U S T E R S|__\/\ /| | /oo| - Bleaurgh! |-| \\____ ------ )_ /| /\ -|_ \_|-_|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 0 _| * \/ * \ | __________________________________/ | W| \ \_/ /----------------- \ \_/ / / /\ \ \___/ \___/ / / \ \ ^^^ ^^^ Who you gonna call...? ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1131 **********************************