MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1135 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: resolving inconsistencies/a gentee rant by Megan Schreiber 2) Re: Grove-born/resolving inconsistencies by hmw-+AT+-med.unc.edu 3) Lifebonds? and others by "Alexandra Y. Kwan" 4) Re: Lifebonds? and others by MELVIN NEVERGOLD 5) Re: Grove-born/resolving inconsistencies by "JAIME HATHAWAY" 6) Re: resolving inconsistencies/a gentee rant by cjkocher-+AT+-spectra.net 7) Re: Lifebonds? and others by "Brian Sizemore" 8) Re: Grove-born/inconsistencies/a genteel rant by "John and Kara Pekar" 9) A thought on fans & TLS by kkwilson-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Ken Wilson) 10) Re: Grove-born/inconsistencies/a genteel rant/bye for now by Eleonora 11) Official QOC -+AT+- Dragon*Con update by "H.D. Wegemer" 12) TLS / Offense / Criticism / Bye by "H.D. Wegemer" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 09:44:21 -0700 From: Megan Schreiber To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: resolving inconsistencies/a gentee rant Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970315164421.006760a8-+AT+-cougarnet.byu.edu> At 01:24 PM 3/15/97 +0000, you wrote: >I'm sorry, Cennydd, but I must disagree with you. The web page is a >public forum and was the most appropriate place for Misty to publish her >essay. As to the tone and content, you have never been on the receiving >end of any of my flames. I only flame in private, and so far haven't >flamed anyone on this list. I tend to flame people either in person or >through the snail mail. And I get truly viscious. Just ask my husband >or son how nasty I can be. Or my little sister who is a b*&(h beyond >belief. Just a quick note: Yes, the web page is a public forum. However, it was also posted to the alt.books.m-lackey newsgroup by someone who said he was doing it at Misty's request. Now, I can understand it being in a place where possibly those 'flakes' would see it...but sending it to a place consisting totally of fans of Misty was totally inappropriate, IMO. What would everyone think if Misty had sent TLS to this mailing list? I'm not even going to bother to complain about tone, content, whatever, because others have already done so much better than I ever could have done. However, I will comment that flames are never appropriate. There are much better ways to get something accomplished than by screaming at them. But anyway. I don't think it'll die easily. Misty has ostracized many a fan through the TLS, and we all want to express our opinions on it. Wyvern http://www.byu.edu/~mschreib ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 12:03:47 -0800 (PST) From: hmw-+AT+-med.unc.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Grove-born/resolving inconsistencies Message-ID: <199703151704.MAA03940-+AT+-raven.med.unc.edu> > From: MELVIN NEVERGOLD > on the subject of what happens when the monarch's own companion choose > someone who is already a herald. Re:lhm --(on Jisa's potental choosing) > "But for a potential King's Own that wouldn't be a Bonded choosing" > So one could infer that the companions Usually know who the next > monarch's own will/could be. > My inference on this matter was that *if* Valdemar's situation was unstable such that there couldn't be an interim period between the death of the former Monarch's Own and the successor (who wasn't already a Herald or in-training) then Jisa would've been Chosen so that she could be well progressed in her Heraldic training when Shari died. My take on the general views was that this was an extremely unusual situation to consider - the Companions themselves seemed uncertain about Randale's Illness (how long he had, etc) and the degree of Shari's sacrifice and willingness to essentially suicide upon Randale's death. If Valdemar's situation was substantially unstable to deem an "early" unbonded Choosing for Jisa to need the training. I also think within this situation there is the additional aspect of Jisa's rather strong and well-trained Mindspeech which manifested early in addition to her already receiving Healer's training for her Empathy. The combination of this and the relatively stable situation in Valdemar, I think this diminished the necessity for her to become Chosen to get the Heraldic training prior to Shari's death. An unbonded Choosing could also prove to be difficult for the Heralds and the King to present to the public - it could be difficult for some to understand in addition to the possibility that they could find such a situation to be undesireably revealing about the nature of Companions. Re: the Companions' knowledge of the "presumptive" Monarch's Own-to-be. I would guess they probably always keep an eye out for potential MOs - likely keeping an eye out for those with hints of Empathy (which has been suggested as a key component of MOs' gifts). Since they knew who would be Heir they could also be aware of those around the Heir who would prove to be a good balance to the Monarch. Cie le vie- Helen hmw-+AT+-med.unc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 10:55:24 -0800 From: "Alexandra Y. Kwan" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Lifebonds? and others Message-ID: <332AF09C.103D-+AT+-earthlink.net> Hi, everyone. I got a question about lifebonds. Is it true that they are never voluntary? That it just sneaks up on you and then bam! you are lifebonded usually to someone you don't know well? Btw, from what I read, Jisa wasn't Chosen yet because as a herald/herald-trainee, she would be much under scrutiny, and others might realize that her 'real' father is Vanyel. But if she was Chosen by Taver after Randale's death, then people would be too busy helping Treven to be king than notice anything weird. Anyhow, about the Last Straw, as Lady Shara had said, could we please, please just forget the whole thing and get on?! from little alex ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 14:21:28 -0500 (EST) From: MELVIN NEVERGOLD To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds? and others Message-ID: Yes lifebonds are suppose to hit you over the back of the head, rip your heart in twain, and leave you babbling on the floor. Beware the ides of march Melvin Neverrgold ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 13:33:16 CST From: "JAIME HATHAWAY" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Grove-born/resolving inconsistencies Message-ID: > course, this doesn't explain why Jisa didn't have a Companion "friend", so > that she could begin her Heraldic training.) > IIRC, Jisa was already being trained by Shavri (for her Gifts), and Savil for everything else. She just didn't have a Companion, b/c her Companion would be Taver. But I see your point. Maybe it was because Jisa was daughter to the King, and so no one had to worry about having to go find the next KO. In other cases, it may be necessary for a Companion to "Choose" the next Monarch's Own, because there's no telling where this person may be in 5 years or so when the present MO is killed. So, a Companion will "Choose" them for the sake of bringing them to Haven and getting them the necessary training, and essentially "keeping an eye on them." Unlike Jisa, who is already at Haven, and is not going anywhere. No Companion has to Choose her because she is already there, and will be there for the rest of her life. She's already getting full training as a Herald, too, as Van says. So it's not really necessary for her to be "Chosen". I would surmise that the Companion who gets stuck "Choosing" someone they can't really bond with probably doesn't like it all that much. Think about it. Would you? I know I wouldn't. As Van says, if everyone's wondering why the daughter of two Heralds hasn't been Chosen when every Companion treats her as though she were their own foal, let them wonder. I think it just makes it easier on all involved if there isn't a fake Choosing when it isn't necessary. WTTW all, Jacquelle "You broke your little ships." Lily to Picard Star Trek: First Contact ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 14:48:14 -0500 From: cjkocher-+AT+-spectra.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: resolving inconsistencies/a gentee rant Message-ID: <332AFCFE.260E-+AT+-spectra.net> Just to pass along information... > Yes, the web page is a public forum. However, it was also posted to the alt.books.m-lackey newsgroup by someone who said he was doing it at Misty's request. Now, I can understand it being in a place where possibly those'flakes' would see it...but sending it to a place consisting totally of fans of Misty was totally inappropriate, IMO. What would everyone think if Misty had sent TLS to this mailing list? I recently spoke with the editor of Queen's Own ... TLS will be published in the March edition of the newsletter so this isn't going away anytime soon. I agree with Cennyd (I think that is who said it) that Misty will lose many fans over this ... and if TLS is published in more and more places, I wonder just where and when all the debate will stop. IMHO, Misty wasn't content with the online publications of TLS and will continue to force the issue. FYI, in the Feb issue of QO, TLS was mentioned but the essay itself wasn't published ... I don't know whose decision it was to go ahead and publish in the March issue. Crystal -- ---------Christopher J. Kocher-------Crystal D. Sarakas-------- ----------------------cjkocher-+AT+-spectra.net--------------------- "Would anybody like to write a song with me now? A line at a time?" - Ray Davies, during a CompuServe chat "It is appallingly clear that our technology has surpassed our humanity." - Albert Einstein -------Ask about ordering information for "Ninth Aspect"------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 14:44:17 -0500 From: "Brian Sizemore" To: Subject: Re: Lifebonds? and others Message-ID: <199703151958.OAA28425-+AT+-ais.ais-gwd.com> ---------- Little Alex said: | | Hi, everyone. I got a question about lifebonds. Is it true that they | are never voluntary? That it just sneaks up on you and then bam! you | are lifebonded usually to someone you don't know well? I've never heard of a voluntary lifebond, but it would be interesting. Yes, all lifebonds just *happen*; no choice in the matter. | Anyhow, about the Last Straw, as Lady Shara had said, could we please, | please just forget the whole thing and get on?! Sounds good to me. May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your homes. Paradox ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Against stupidity, the very gods themselves contend in vain. # Have you ever noticed that most of the people who are against abortion are peole you wouldn't want to have sex with in the first place? # The preceding has been my opinion only. It is very possible that I may have offended someone inadvertantly. If you will let me know who you are, next time I will make it a point to do so intentionally. # # # No matter what else you do in life, love another. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:51:19 -0500 From: "John and Kara Pekar" To: "MISTY" Subject: Re: Grove-born/inconsistencies/a genteel rant Message-ID: <199703152155.QAA08295-+AT+-nessie.crosslink.net> Thanks to the several people who brought to my attention the quote about Jisa possibly being Chosen without being bonded. I missed that one! Helen wrote: >An unbonded Choosing could also prove to be difficult for the Heralds and the King to >present to the public - it could be difficult for some to understand in addition to the >possibility that they could find such a situation to be undesireably revealing about the >nature of Companions. I suspect that most people would never know that an unbonded Choosing was even a possiblilty. Even when and if such a thing occurred, there would be no need for anyone outside the Circle and Heraldic trainees to know that the Choosing was unbonded. From the outside, there would be no difference between a bonded and an unbonded Choosing. Hypothetical case in point: if Jisa *had* been Chosen, but not bonded, I doubt most people even in the palace would have been aware that her Choosing was unbonded, unless they had a need to know. It would only become open knowledge when Shavri died, and Taver Chose Jisa. At that point, I'm not sure it would matter that much for the public to know. I'm not sure how a situation involving an unbonded Herald/Companion pair would reveal anything about the nature of Companions. Can you clarify that thought for me? BTW, I suspect that since Vanyel was aware of the possiblitity of an unbonded Choosing, such a thing had already happened at least once prior to the Jisa/Taver question. (Not necessarily during Vanyel's lifetime; I'm sure he read the archives/annals/chronicles at times.) Jacquelle wrote: >it may be necessary for a Companion to "Choose" the next Monarch's Own, because >there's no telling where this person may be in 5 years or so when the present MO is >killed. So, a Companion will "Choose" them for the sake of bringing them to Haven and >getting them the necessary training, and essentially "keeping an eye on them." Unlike >Jisa, who is already at Haven, and is not going anywhere. Aha, that explains it perfectly. Thanks! (This is why I like to open discussions on questions like this. People come up with great solutions. >I would surmise that the Companion who gets stuck "Choosing" someone they can't >really bond with probably doesn't like it all that much. I'm not sure I agree. I think it would be more like the difference between a lifebond and a close friendship; the "psychic bond" isn't there, but there is nothing to prevent a deep affection from growing. I suspect that Companions are given some sort of choice about whom they Choose, and have some knowledge of the possible candidates. If so, a Companion considering whether to agree to an "unbonded" Choosing would know enough to recognize a potential friend. (BTW, have you read the Mage Storm trilogy? The relationship of Karal and Florian has some bearing on this. Though Karal isn't even Chosen, there is a close friendship between him and Florian, and Florian appears to have no objection to having a friend rather than a Chosen.) ++++++++++++++re: a genteel rant++++++++++++++ Cennydd, thank you. You said everything I wanted to say, and said it better. And I, too, would like to see this question go away (though it appears from Crys's post that it's unlikely to.) Wind to thy wings, listsibs! Kara Disciple of Textevd "So many books, so little time." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 16:20:10 -0600 (CST) From: kkwilson-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (Ken Wilson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk.Several.people.have.mentioned.the.possibility.of.Misty.loosing.fans Subject: A thought on fans & TLS Message-ID: <199703152220.QAA26802-+AT+-dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com> because of TLS. MY question is why? OK, you already don't like her writing and were offended by tls I can understand not reading/buying any more of her work. If you like her work but are offended, ignor TLS but keep reading. If you can look at TLS and say "she's not talking to or about me" you have nothing to worry about. As for putting TLS in places populated exclusively by fans, this is not unreasonable because the people complaining about the DT books are fans. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 20:44:03 -0300 From: Eleonora To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Grove-born/inconsistencies/a genteel rant/bye for now Message-ID: <332B3443.6FBA-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy> Kara commented: > BTW, I suspect that since Vanyel was aware of the possiblitity of an > unbonded Choosing, such a thing had already happened at least once prior to > the Jisa/Taver question. (Not necessarily during Vanyel's lifetime; I'm > sure he read the archives/annals/chronicles at times.) I don't know if someone has already mentioned this since I have been skimming the posts mostly (no time, I'm afraid), but Van in MPromise also tells Yfandes that he had thought Taver would choose *him* and that he thought Taver had chosen Shavri because she was a healer and therefore able to help the King whom he already suspected of being ill. And noone is going to persuade me that the Van-'fandes choosing was unbonded, so that seems to show that the MOC can choose a Herald who has a strong bond with his own companion. And it brings me back to the matter of inconsistencies. BTW, Kara, I also like inconsistencies when on further examination it becomes clear that they are after all consistent, but in Misty's Valdemaran novels, I suspect there are many of the unexplainable kind, or at least unexplainable with the data at hand. > > Jacquelle wrote: > > >it may be necessary for a Companion to "Choose" the next Monarch's Own, > because > >there's no telling where this person may be in 5 years or so when the > present MO is >killed. So, a Companion will "Choose" them for the sake of > bringing them to Haven and >getting them the necessary training, and > essentially "keeping an eye on them." Unlike >Jisa, who is already at > Haven, and is not going anywhere. > Kara commented: > Aha, that explains it perfectly. Thanks! (This is why I like to open > discussions on questions like this. People come up with great solutions. > Well, there is also the matter of training. In that scene with Jisa in MPromise, Van says she will be Chosen IF she needs the training, which after all is not necessary since Shavri was able to teach her herself. > ++++++++++++++re: a genteel rant++++++++++++++ > > Cennydd, thank you. You said everything I wanted to say, and said it > better. And I, too, would like to see this question go away (though it > appears from Crys's post that it's unlikely to.) Yep, definitely what Kara said. You said what I wanted to say much better, Cen, which is not surprising since you are my boss . Well, as of tomorrow I'll be postponing for at least a week since I will be away form my PC, but I am not sure if I will return to the list as soon as I am back at the office, since I don't really have the time to do the list justice and I have found myself skimming the posts and deleting a lot. I will still answer personal email of course =) Love and peace, Ele Priestess of Karma LotPW Dame of the OAM Assistant to the Chef Adept ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 22:19:05 +0000 From: "H.D. Wegemer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Official QOC -+AT+- Dragon*Con update Message-ID: <9703160314.AA13222-+AT+-flash> Great things are happening for Queen's Own Collegia in '97! Not only will QOC bring you the best in Mercedes Lackey-related panels & workshops, but this year it's our pleasure to welcome Mercedes Lackey herself as our special guest! If that's not enough, we also have Larry Dixon, author & artist in his own right --- plus Mark Shepherd, Josepha Sherman, Judith Louvis, our own Herald Housemother, Judith Louvis. Quite a line-up! QOC offers a full schedule of panels, everything from a Q&A session with ALL our guests to author readings. In addition to workshops on persona creation, Taleydras hair-styling, dancing and crafts, we will have private autograph sessions just for QOC folks. Plus --- + Dinner With The Guests! On Thursday night at 8:00 PM, QOC will + host an informal buffet with Mercedes Lackey and our other guests. + Cost is $30.00 per person for a scrumptious, all you can eat meal. + Due to space restrictions, we must limit dinner to 30 people, so + reserve early! (Fees MUST be in hand by Sunday, June 1st; please + make checks payable to Marilyn I Morey.) This is a fun, relaxed + way to meet & mingle with both the guests and fellow fans. + The "Gryphon & Kitsune Pub," with music, dancing, Circuit Rider + (The Game), and more! + Another (in)famous Taleydras unVALEing. In past years, we've known + Companions to wander in and Choose some lucky person present, so be + there with bells on! There are other great surprises in store, so + don't miss it. + A Charity Auction, with proceeds going to the Alex Foundation, + which studies intelligence & cognizance in African Grey Parrots. + Misty assures me there will be at least ONE unpublished manuscript + amongst all the other loot, so save your money! + Miniature Mannequins Competition. Entries can be anything from + home-made dolls to popular fashion dolls, but ALL must wear a + costume relating to Misty's universes (Herald, Taleydras, Bard, + etc.). You're limited only by your imagination and good taste. + (No costume is still no costume.) Entries MUST be on display by + Friday noon, as judging ends at 6 PM Saturday. Prizes will be + awarded for Most Original, Prettiest, Funniest, etc. Rules will be + posted at the convention, and all entries remain property of the + creator. Please direct all questions to Morgan, Director of QOC. + Misty's Bedtime Story Hour. A private reading by Mercedes Lackey + at midnight in the QOC Suite/Hyatt Hotel on Thursday, Friday and + Saturday nights. Attendance to 25 people each night + (first-come-first-serve), with sign-up sheets posted in the QOC + function room each day. (So everyone has a chance to attend, + please sign-up for only one night!) NOTE: By Misty's decree, + those attending MUST wear pajamas, bring a pillow and carry with + them a stuffed animal. (We do ask you use good taste & judgement + in your choice of sleeping apparell!) Other things are still in the planning stages, so be sure to check the Dragon*Con web site for periodical up-dates on all the fun stuff at Queen's Own Collegia '97! One thing for certain --- we're gonna have LOTS of time to spend with Misty & Larry, and hopefully a few of their birds. You don't want to miss a single minute! All this for your enjoyment when you join us at Dragon*Con 1997! For more information, feel free to contact me, Morgan, at the following email address: morganqoc-+AT+-aol.com Or, you can write to: M.I.Morey, 5318 Edgewater Drive, Orlando, FL 32810. Please send an SASE for a guaranteed response. Looking forward to seeing you there!! --- Although I dwell by choice in realms Ephemeral as phosphor glow It is a life -- it is _my_ life -- As real as aught you know. H. Wegemer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 04:08:42 +0000 From: "H.D. Wegemer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: TLS / Offense / Criticism / Bye Message-ID: <9703160904.AA16897-+AT+-flash> On the issue of "The Last Straw" and analysis thereof . . . What He (Cennyd) Said. Brian Sizemore wrote: > The preceding has been my opinion only. It is very possible that > I may have offended someone inadvertantly. If you will let me know > who you are, next time I will make it a point to do so > intentionally. Somehow this does not surprise me . . . Y'know . . . this list used to be a rather nice place . . . now people are being informed repeatedly that they do not have the right to post analysis of certain works by the author, or to view works critically. Interestingly, these people are in effect being told to keep their opinions to themselves by the same group that supports Ms. Lackey's right to post angry tirades for the world to see. I suppose it's little wonder, after all, that Mr. Sizemore takes the usename of Paradox. As for the list . . . I miss Heather (What She Said, the significant one) and her views, I miss the openness to critical attitudes, and I miss the friendly solidarity that once marked this list. I cannot, however, say that I will miss what this list has become. Heather (Not What-She-Said, not the singer, totally insignificant, but also gone for a bit) --- Although I dwell by choice in realms Ephemeral as phosphor glow It is a life -- it is _my_ life -- As real as aught you know. H. Wegemer ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1135 **********************************